John Stone Reviews Turtles All The Way Down
John Stone reviewed Turtles All The Way Down for Children's Health Defense's European site. See our post from August about the book Turtles All The Way Down: Vaccine Science and Myth According to Professor of Philosophy Joel Richeimer, the phrase “turtles all the way down” stems from a story about the British philosopher Bertrand Russell. After giving a lecture on astronomy, Russell was refuted by a woman in the audience, who claimed that the earth was situated not in space, but on the back of a large turtle. When Russell asked what the turtle was standing on, the woman replied that it was “turtles all the way down.” Remember the story of the tortoise and the hare. Our slow and steady pace continues, and we will win the race.
Purchase a copy here.
By John Stone
A welcome for this important book and paradoxical book. Although it has been edited for an English speaking audience by Mary Holland and Zoey O’Toole it was assembled by anonymous (Israeli) authors providing an anatomy of vaccine science, at least as it existed in 2019 before Covid. It may be considered critical to the understanding of the project that the authors chose to remain anonymous: while of course this meant that they could not be personally and professionally attacked it has also meant that anyone attacking the book has to attack the intellectual substance of the book and not the authors.
The central conceit of the book refers to the foundationlessness of vaccine science, in which a comparison is being made with pre-scientific conception of the position of the earth in the universe: instead of a body in space it was held to be supported on the backs of elephants, in turn standing on the backs of turtles, apparently standing on the backs of larger turtles, but then what were those turtles standing on?
While the book is an inventory of failed scientific methodology of various kinds the specific reference is the failure to provide studies which demonstrate the effectiveness and safety of any products on the schedule against genuine placebo ie a neutral substance, as opposed to other products and concoctions (substitute placebos) – a matter once brilliantly exposed by ICAN’s correspondence with the US government. Faced with the 64 trillion dollar question whether any at all of the products on the infant schedule had been so tested the US government failed to provide a single instance. Not only were none of the products trialled against genuine placebo, none of the substitute placebos had either. What was it all standing on?
It may be mentioned in a somewhat comic sequel to the ICAN episode three leading proponents of vaccine science, Stanley Plotkin, Paul Offit and Heidi Larson were challenged in the electronic columns of British Medical Journal by Christopher Exley, David Healey and myself made off into the distance. Not only were these studies lacking for some products they were lacking for all. The problem has been that while for bureaucratic and ideological purposes vaccines have been placed for the most part beyond criticism as unalloyed public good this has assisted even greater levels of negligence than perhaps even exist in other branches of medical science as highlighted in famous critiques John Ioannidis and Marcia Angell. Existing in the realms of state enforced totem and taboo, the science is almost bound to go wrong even supposing it is not meant to, while most professionals simply walk away.
The nub is that for most of its history, going back more than two centuries to Edward Jenner, who also might not have recognised a double-blind placebo trial, so much has rested on careful gaslighting rather than sound data – quite simply anyone who doubted was in modern parlance “cancelled”, and this in itself had unbounded potential for skewing the evidence base. If you are not allowed to even mention vaccine damage how will cases ever come to be recorded? Scarcely surprising that the authors have chosen not to disclose their identities. Please read more at CHD Europe.
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Thank you John Stone ,sounds like another good read.
Ah but wait a wee minute ,could these turtles perhaps be second cousins twice removed from The Urisk,The Blue Men and he Mermaid ?
See The Gaelic Otherworld John Gregorson Campbell's Superstitions of The Highlands and Islands of Scotland and Witchcraft and Second Sight in The Highlands.
SEE MAGIC Digital authoring and publication platform for the evidence ecosystem
MAGIC Evidence Ecosystem Foundation .
Do these turtles have "Infodemic crustaceans " skelped onto their hin-ends? because the World Health Organisation needs somewhere to stick some ,shove some ,and park some of their own ones?
See https/www.who.int/teams epi-ain/infodemic Management WHOInfodemic Manager Training
November 2020.
These Criteria and Guideline chumps are playing around with some rather odd looking unicorns ?
and their Covid-19 mask review evaluation update still will not admit that covid is airborn
Now that really is a comical howler !
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job , wait until you hire an amateur "
Red Adair
Posted by: Morag Lyons | November 14, 2022 at 02:30 AM
@Fred
Why is SM-102 an ingredient in the Covid 19 jab?
Amazing Polly does the research:
Toxic SM-102 Shocking Connection to the Daddy of all Daddies
https://rumble.com/v1tp4jm-toxic-sm-102-shocking-connection-to-the-daddy-of-all-daddies.html
Posted by: Emmaphiladelphia | November 12, 2022 at 11:17 AM
@Fred
BTW, thank you for your endorsement of TURTLES ALL THE WAY DOWN (I believe the opposite of what Pharma says). If you showed up, it must be good. I plan to order extra copies to send to brainwashed public school teacher relatives for Christmas.
Posted by: Emmaphiladelphia | November 12, 2022 at 11:06 AM
Emma,
Again, if Landsteiner was wrong explain the paralysis in the Cutter incident and from OPV.
Posted by: Frederic Chopin | November 11, 2022 at 11:46 PM
@Fred
Try answering my questions first, which you have continually avoided.
You said:
"If we already have a proven vaccine it's unethical not to use that for the control group."
I asked:
"Where is the original raw data (for EVERY VACCINE) showing a vaccine has been proven?
What do you mean by "proven?" "Safe and effective" as compared to what? What does meeting the FDA standard actually mean?"
You said:
"You haven't given an example of a childhood schedule vaccine that either wasn't compared to a placebo or wasn't compared to an already proven vaccine that was. You could start with the Salk field trials..."
"Can you fill me in on the sketchy history of Karl Landsteiner's identification of the polio virus in 1908? Was it actually isolated and proven to have caused the symptoms of "polio"? Some theories proposed that it was exposure to then newly developed chemical fertilizers. Where is the account of solid evidence that Landsteiner's "poliovirus" actually caused the symptoms, including paralysis?"
ISN'T THE POLIO VACCINE TURTLE STANDING ON THE WORK OF Karl Landsteiner's work from 1908? Show us his lab evidence.
Posted by: Emmaphiladelphia | November 11, 2022 at 01:42 PM
Says you CHOP? remember Gish Galloping is out..
Quotes
In 1954 Eddy was fifty-one years old. Born in a mining town in West Virginia, she got a Ph.D. in 1927 from the University of Cincinnati and came to Washington during the Great Depression to work at the Hygienic Laboratory, as she continued to call it. Her job from then until she retired in 1973 was the safety testing of vaccines.
In 1954 the rush was on. Her lab had gotten samples of the inactivated polio vaccine to certify on a "due-yesterday" basis. "This was a product that had never been made before and they were going to use it right away,” she recalled. She and her staff worked around the clock. "We had eighteen monkeys. We inoculated these eighteen monkeys with each vaccine that came in. And we started getting paralyzed monkeys." She reported to her superiors that the lots were Cutter's, and sent pictures of the paralyzed monkeys along as well. "They were going to be injecting this thing into children."
William Sebrell, the director of the NIH, stopped by the animal house where they were working, not to thank her for blowing the whistle but to ask if she and her co-workers wanted their children immunized with the vaccine, as it was in short supply. "I thanked him but said that my children had escaped polio so far and that I preferred to wait until the testing program was over before having them immunized," said Eddy. "Everyone there turned down the offer."
She heard nothing more about her report and never got the photographs back. "They went ahead and released the vaccine anyway, a lot of it. The monkeys they just disregarded." [Book extract. The Health Century] Dr. Bernice E. Eddy, whose lab tests found that the Cutter vaccine had been improperly inactivated.
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/eddy_h.html
Pharma For Prison
MMR RIP
Posted by: Angus Files | November 11, 2022 at 06:16 AM
Emma,
We're discussing John's book review. Have you read the book? I don't think anyone else here has. As an aside though, if poliovirus doesn't cause paralysis how do you explain the Cutter incident? Or paralysis after OPV? This is what happens when people gish gallop.
Posted by: Frederic Chopin | November 10, 2022 at 10:31 PM
Pay no attention to Chopin the TROLL
He refuses to answer any of my questions regarding Karl Landsteiner's identification of the polio virus in 1908 in my post below.
The proof is in the Polio Pudding:
"Subsequent investigations revealed that the vaccine, manufactured by the California-based family firm of Cutter Laboratories, had caused 40 000 cases of polio, leaving 200 children with varying degrees of paralysis and killing 10."
"Nigeria, Democratic Republic of Congo, Central African Republic, and Angola have experienced nine new cases of polio caused by the live virus in oral polio vaccines that has mutated into an infectious form, according to statistics released last week (November 20) by the World Health Organization. That brings the global total of these types of infections to 157 for the year, and it means that more children are paralyzed as a result of such vaccine-derived infections than illnesses caused by the wildtype virus, which has affected 107 people this year."
https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/polio-vaccination-causes-more-infections-than-wild-virus-66778
Don't feed the troll John.
Posted by: Emmaphiladelphia | November 10, 2022 at 10:45 AM
Kim,
It's 518 pages and there are probably not a lot of pictures. I'd love for someone to point out a salient contention these anonymous authors had so we could discuss it.
Posted by: Fredric Chopin | November 10, 2022 at 10:18 AM
Hello, “Fred.” I had exchanges with John, who does not hide benind a nom de plume by the way, about the length of the book. Yours ever, Kim
Posted by: Kim | November 10, 2022 at 09:44 AM
John, I didn't write a book report for it. I could tell from your "review" you'd never opened it.
Posted by: Frederic Chopin | November 10, 2022 at 09:15 AM
Fred
Well, obviously you haven’t read the book.
Posted by: John Stone | November 10, 2022 at 06:33 AM
John, honestly it sounds like none of you have read the book. Give me something man.
Posted by: Frederic Chopin | November 09, 2022 at 11:50 PM
Salk from the eugenics fun family..you should buy his book written by himself and read his motives . Has there been scientific confirmation that the demise of any infectious disease were the result of mass population vaccine campaigns CHOP ??Certainly never with POLIO world wide.News to all on here if there has been CHOP of course (Children's Hospital of Philadelphia) who works there???answers on a postage stamp lol
Pharma For Prison
MMR RIP
Posted by: Angus Files | November 09, 2022 at 06:02 PM
@Chopin
It's a good thing that parents could still sue the pants off of vaccine manufacturers after the CUTTER INCIDENT of April 1955.
"In April 1955 more than 200 000 children in five Western and mid-Western USA states received a polio vaccine in which the process of inactivating the live virus proved to be defective. Within days there were reports of paralysis and within a month the first mass vaccination programme against polio had to be abandoned. Subsequent investigations revealed that the vaccine, manufactured by the California-based family firm of Cutter Laboratories, had caused 40 000 cases of polio, leaving 200 children with varying degrees of paralysis and killing 10." -Michael Fitzpatrick
Neither Salk nor Sabin could come up with a safe vaccine. Sabin experimented on children in Russia. Current jabs still can cause cases of polio.
Can you fill me in on the sketchy history of Karl Landsteiner's identification of the polio virus in 1908? Was it actually isolated and proven to have caused the symptoms of "polio"? Some theories proposed that it was exposure to then newly developed chemical fertilizers. Where is the account of solid evidence that Landsteiner's "poliovirus" actually caused the symptoms, including paralysis?
Posted by: Emmaphiladelphia | November 09, 2022 at 03:18 PM
Fred
I can’t give an example of something for which there isn’t an example and neither can you.
Posted by: John Stone | November 09, 2022 at 01:58 PM
Fred,
“…a vaccine that already was”, is ridiculous on its face, let alone scientifically.
Turtles All the Way Down reminds me of “Alligators all Around” although I know Carole King is no friend of the vaccine risk aware community. She lavishly joined Dolly Parton to sing praises of the Covid vaccines. Oh well, there will always be alligators all around…
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SJRJI6dNK9c
Posted by: annie | November 09, 2022 at 02:08 AM
John,
Since you're claiming there's a problem "all the way down" the Salk vaccine seems a good place to start, but you can give us some other examples. You haven't given any.
Posted by: Frederic Chopin | November 08, 2022 at 11:51 PM
Fred
But then you are having to reach back seven decades to find an example.
Posted by: John Stone | November 08, 2022 at 08:24 PM
John,
You haven't given an example of a childhood schedule vaccine that either wasn't compared to a placebo or wasn't compared to an already proven vaccine that was. You could start with the Salk field trials...
Posted by: Frederic Chopin | November 08, 2022 at 07:57 PM
Fred
I am afraid you haven’t been reading carefully enough.
Posted by: John Stone | November 08, 2022 at 07:14 PM
"...we already have a proven vaccine"
@Chopin
Where is the original raw data (for EVERY VACCINE) showing a vaccine has been proven?
What do you mean by "proven?" "Safe and effective" as compared to what? What does meeting the FDA standard actually mean? The autism rate after 1986 is a hockey stick graph going from around 1/10,000 before the 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act was passed to a dramatic 1/30 - 1/40 today. Right after the 1986 law giving pharma liability protection was passed, the CDC Childhood Recommended vaccine schedule was greatly increased. This was also the beginning of vaccine mandates.
You are standing on sinking sand.
Personally, I do not use these products. I have lived longer than many who have. I have never had an extended stay in a hospital. I have not seen a medical doctor in about 10 years.
Posted by: Emmaphiladelphia | November 08, 2022 at 05:56 PM
John,
New vaccines for diseases which don't already have a proven vaccine are typically compared to placebo. If we already have a proven vaccine it's unethical not to use that for the control group. I hope that clears up the confusion.
Posted by: Frederic Chopin | November 08, 2022 at 02:05 PM
I like Emma's assessment that the turtles stands on sand.
On Christ the Rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand, all other ground is sinking sand.
Posted by: Benedetta Stilwell | November 07, 2022 at 09:17 PM
Sorry meant to add Scarlet fever is back or does it look like a bad vaccine reaction like my son looked like after his MMR..of course,of course nothing to do with vaccines..lol
Scarlet Fever outbreak in Scotland prompts fears with cases on the rise
The illness is being spread in the Borders with cases being described as "unseasonably high".
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scarlet-fever-outbreak-scotland-prompts-28432233
Pharma For Prison
MMR RIP
Posted by: Angus Files | November 07, 2022 at 05:37 PM
As you know Anonymous silica via the protocol suggested by Prof Exley is the only way I know proven to help get rid of Aluminum from the brain and other large organs. Just now I am fascinated with mushrooms and adult brain cell growth via Lions Main .Tradd Cotter well worth a listen to on You tube with his work with mushrooms, environment etc.
Pharma For Prison
MMR RIP
Posted by: Angus Files | November 07, 2022 at 05:32 PM
Graphene - the key to brain-machine MetaVerse registration, vessel-to-nanowire creation (extremely new, recent white clots being discovered by embalmers) and brain-computer interfaces - is actually transparent/clear, not the "black goo" we see in movies such as Venom or zombie thrillers: https://odysee.com/@laquintacolumnainternational:7/We-were-told-that-graphene-was-black:d
And aluminum? Many vials contain both graphene AND aluminum now, and those who take the "safer smaller" man-to-machine M0TBs such as AstraZeneca will also perish/die suddenly with the endless amounts of aluminum being sprayed into our air. Does aluminum play a role in transhumanism? Those with ASDs and high brain aluminum tend to be violent/unable to control their own actions/hypersensitive to sensory input, learning impaired/cognitively delayed, and have severe gut problems as it also damages the GI tract, bones, and lungs. Those after the new "snake bite" (decode) also can't control tics/spasms, violent behavior, incorrect muscular movements (one man postvaxx couldn't stand out of a chair - his feet and legs kept sliding across the floor), seizures, and extreme stuttering/"robotic" speech as if coming from a subpar TTS read aloud service - "cyborg speech" in a nutshell. Why ABA/OT/SLP/etc and ESE has low long-term success in those with very high brain aluminum?
Posted by: Anonymous | November 07, 2022 at 02:39 PM
The turtles are standing on sand......
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207:24-27&version=NKJV
Posted by: Emmaphiladelphia | November 07, 2022 at 01:57 PM
I think probably Richeimer got his version of the story from Stephen Hawking in ‘A Short History of Time’ - unimpeachable - but of course by Bertrand Russell’s time the story had already been told for centuries, no doubt older than time itself.
Posted by: John Stone | November 07, 2022 at 11:15 AM
I remember a friend from a medical position not singing the pharma mantra (its not vaccines) saying Mercury the winged messenger Angus that's what harmed him use the message and spread it and save others.
Thanks John one day we will win.
Pharma For Prison
MMR RIP
Posted by: Angus Files | November 07, 2022 at 09:08 AM
I doubt Trump needed all those health organizations to take him down. He took himself down with Nambia and the big,big ocean filled with wet water.
Maurine
PS Thank you, John for your review.
Posted by: Maurine Ellen Meleck | November 07, 2022 at 07:57 AM