By Anne Dachel
On February 4, 2021, Martha MacCallum interviewed journalist and author Alex Berenson on Fox News Radio in a 17 minute segment entitled, Alex Berenson Says COVID-19 Vaccine Was “A Real Failure Of Regulation”
Berenson had some really eye-opening information that made me wish he was interviewing Dr. Anthony Fauci on these same points.
Several things were happening here. MacCallum brought up the possibility that Berenson is an “anti-vaxxer” right at the start, and he had to defend himself against that charge.
Berenson asserted that he’s not anti-vaccine. He’s vaccinated and his children are vaccinated according to the CDC schedule.
When Berenson got into his reasons for being unconvinced that the COVID19 vaccines are worthwhile, it was clear people should be worried about both safety and efficacy.
This is what they’re not telling us in the mainstream media:
First of all, the mRNA COVID vaccines are a new, insufficiently tested technology. Berenson told listeners something that I’ve never heard anyone in the news, namely that these vaccines “cause pretty severe events in a lot of people who take them” in the trial phase.
Berenson said that there have been “thousands and thousands” of adverse events reported to the government after this vaccine
Secondly, they haven’t been tested in the people most at risk from COVID19: those people who are older with preexisting conditions.
He furthermore claimed that along with the risks, there is no proof these vaccines provide immunity or prevent spread.
After raising serious concerns about side effects and what these vaccines actually do to prevent COVID, he did tell us that he’s not sure about getting it himself, although his children definitely are not going to get it.
He did however advise his elderly mother to take the vaccine because at her age, she’s more vulnerable to COVID.
This was after pointing out that it hasn’t been tested in her age group and that if it were up to him, “these vaccines would not be available right now.”
Despite this mixed message, his points are valid. Berenson’s arguments should be a part of every discussion where people talk about mandating this vaccine for employment or school attendance.
Martha MacCallum: Welcome everybody to this edition of the Untold Story. We’re joined today by a frequent guest and friend of ours, Alex Berenson, who has covered in a really in-depth way the reality of COVID19 and the vaccine structure and the data behind all of it.
We want to talk to him about that, but we want to start today by asking him about his new book because I always knew Alex as a former New York Times reporter. He’s also a prolific novelist, who’s written a new book called the Power Couple.
Hi Alex. How are you doing today?
Alex Berenson: Martha, great to talk to you. …
MacCallum: I’m going to totally switch gears on you. … Before I let you go, I want to spend the second bit of this talking about your approach to vaccines because I’ve followed your coverage, and we’ve talked a lot on this show over the course of COVID. You’ve busted a lot of myths in your writing about COVID.
You’re coming across these days sounding sort of like an anti—vaxxer.
Berenson: No, I’m not an anti-vaxxer. I’ve been vaccinated. Our kids have been vaccinated. I think you need to look at the COVID vaccines differently than other vaccines because they are different than other vaccines.
They aren’t based on technology that’s been around for generations. They haven’t been around for generations. They are a completely new kind of vaccine, based on technology that really was what people in biotechnology call the “bleeding edge of development” in the last few years.
Meaning you were bleeding a lot of money and a lot of scientific effort to try to move these forward, and they really weren’t moving forward very quickly and there was a good reason for that.
There’s questions about the technology I don’t really want to go into right now. It really to explore it takes a long time.
These vaccines didn’t exist at this time last year, or they’d barely begun to exist.
We are trying to vaccinate everybody in the world with them even though the clinical trial data shows they have been pretty severe adverse events in a lot of people who take them. They cause pretty severe events in a lot of people who take them.
Here’s what we know about them: We know that they stop mild or moderate COVID infections in a pretty healthy population. That’s what the clinical trials proved.
They didn’t prove that these reduce deaths. They didn’t prove that they reduce serious cases of COVID, although you’ll hear that they didn’t actually prove that, they demonstrated some benefit in that direction, but they didn’t prove it.
Most importantly, they weren’t tested in the people who are most likely to get sick and die from COVID.
Tens of thousands of people were tested with these vaccines, but only a handful—I mean in the hundreds—are in the group of people that are 75 and older who have preexisting conditions, like kidney disease or diabetes.
Those are the people we know who get sick and die from COVID much, much more than other people.
I’m not going to say it’s criminal, but it is a real failure of regulation that we didn’t force the manufacturers to test the vaccines in those people.
So what we’re left with is a lot of guesswork as to whether or not these vaccine will actually do any good on a population wide basis, and against that we have a lot of data showing that they cause adverse events in many people who take them.
MacCallum: But that’s not what we’re hearing. We’re hearing in most cases only if you’re someone who is prone to an allergic reaction to a vaccine, that it is very rare for someone to have an adverse effect to this vaccine so far.
Berenson: That’s just simply untrue. What the CDC is doing and what the media unfortunately is helping them do is defining adverse events very, very narrowly. As essentially, I got this and went into shock in 15 to 30 minutes.
That’s rare. It’s actually not as rare as it is for other vaccines, but it is rare.
But there are many, many, many other adverse events that follow vaccination with these that we know about, that the clinical trials demonstrated.
There are fevers, in some cases fevers of 103 and 104 degrees.
There is nausea. There is fatigue that puts people out for days. There is diarrhea.
MacCallum: Here’s what I’m hearing in that, just to push back on that.
A lot of times when you get a vaccine, I mean essentially a vaccine is a tiny bit of the disease itself, right? So you sometimes get those symptoms.
I’ve had that happen with the flu vaccine. I had a shingles vaccine, my arm blew up for four days afterwards.
It’s that just sort of what happens when you inject a bit of any one of these diseases into your body?
Berenson: So now we go to what the vaccine actually is, and that’s not what these mRNA vaccine are at all.
What you’re being given is a little piece of genetic material that stimulates your body to produce a part of the corona virus protein.
That, in and of itself makes the corona virus vaccine different than the kind of vaccines you’re talking about.
On top of that, because your body’s going to attack that little piece of RNA, it has to be protected by something called a lipid nanoparticle, and those can also cause adverse events. They can cause your immune system to respond.
The science on this gets very, very complicated, but when people say, “Oh I like the fact I had this negative reaction after I had that vaccine because it shows my immune system is working,” that’s actually not really true at all.
I don’t like it when people say it because a lot people who are saying it know it’s not really true at all.
Here’s the thing. When we look at the vaccine adverse events reports that have been filed with the federal government, there are thousands and thousands of them for this COVID19 vaccine.
It’s possibly in some cases they’re not directly related. They’re just something that followed the injection and the injection didn’t cause.
But what we know is that they’re being filed at much, much higher rates than other vaccines.
These vaccines are more toxic to people than the flu vaccine and many other vaccines, and the clinical trial data demonstrates that beyond a doubt.
All I’m saying is, since we know the adverse events can be severe, we should be demanding proof of efficacy, not just that it reduces mild disease in healthy people, but that we see real evidence that in the people who die from COVID, this prevents COVID deaths.
There would be a way to demonstrate that if the companies had run the trials properly.
They didn’t do that, so we’re guessing.
I don’t think that makes me an anti-vaxxer to say this.
MacCallum: So the J and J vaccine is not an mRNA vaccine. That is a more traditional style vaccine where they basically cook the virus, and they make it in order to create this vaccine.
Do you think that one is safer?
Berenson: We haven’t seen the side effect data on the J and J.
It’s probably somewhat safer than the mRNA vaccines because it doesn’t have the lipid nanoparticle issue, but we also, it also looks less effective based on the data—
Here’s ultimate problem with this: There’s something called “science by press release.”
That’s when you put out a press release that looks really great and then a month later, after everyone has sort of agreed how great this is, you release the full data set, and it looks entirely different.
The only people who read that are only a few scientists and a few journalists.
We don’t know what the J and J data says because J and J hasn’t put it out yet.
MacCallum: So for yourself and your family members, having done all of this digging, do you think people are just better off taking their chances with COVID19 than getting the vaccine?
Berenson: It depends very substantially on age because COVID’s risks are so stratified by age.
My mother asked me, “Should I get the vaccine?”
I said, “Yes, get the vaccine. You’re 76 years old.”…
For me, I’m 48 and I’m in reasonably healthy condition. I’m not interested in the mRNA vaccine, maybe a different vaccine.
And for my children, and again my children to the normal vaccine schedule to this point, they are not getting this vaccine.
We will pull them out of school, and my wife agrees with me about this, we will pull them out of school before we give them this vaccine.
They are at zero risk basically from COVID, and they should not be subjected to any risk from a vaccine.
MacCallum: Last question… We talked a lot about Operation Warp Speed and the pipeline and the production of it was really unprecedented just separate from what you think about the vaccine, just from a logistic standpoint, very impressive.
But then it just sort of stopped at the state door and left the rest up to them.
What do you think about that failure so far?
Berenson: To me it’s sort of irrelevant. I don’t think we should be pushing the vaccine on people. I think we should prioritize the vaccine for people 60 and over, certainly 70 and over.
Some states were better at that than others. That should have clearly been the national priority, rather than trying to get health care workers—a lot of them don’t even want to take the vaccine—to take it.
I think that’s what we should have done, but honestly if it were up to me, these vaccines would not be available right now. They’d still be in clinical trial and we’d be getting the data that we need to show that they actually work and by work I mean reduce deaths, and reduce severe hospitalizations in a statistically significant—
MacCallum: Do you see evidence that that is beginning to happen?
We’ve talked about the studies in California and New York that show that show many more people had COVID19 than is publically acknowledged.
Do you think, completely separate from the vaccine, how much longer do you think COVID19 will be with us without it?
Berenson: I don’t know. In the US right now we’re going way down. We’ve hit the peak of the third wave. We’re well past it. It was in the beginning of January.
You don’t hear this very much but cases are down something like 60 percent from the peak a month ago.
Hospitalizations are now down 35 percent, and they’re going down every day. It certainly looks like we’re well passed the third wave.
Will there be a fourth wave? I’d like to think not, but at this point COVID’s made a fool of anybody who’s made predictions that it’s over.
I’d say one last thing. One more reason to be concerned about the vaccines on a population wide basis is that Israel, which has done a much aggressive job of vaccinating people over 60 than anywhere else in the world, is in the middle of COVID wave that has not gone down in the last month.
Ours has gone down. We vaccinated relatively few people. Theirs has stayed very high, and they vaccinated a lot of people.
You can come up with explanations for that don’t say the vaccine doesn’t work.
You can explain this is various ways and some of them still are okay for the vaccine, but to me, that’s a warning flag.
But in terms of what we’re going to see in the U.S., I’d like think that what we’re going to see is that cases continue to go down.