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Pope Francis and Moral Relativism

CardinalsVATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The Vatican told Roman Catholics on Monday that it was morally acceptable to use COVID-19 vaccines even if their production employed cell lines drawn from tissues of aborted foetuses.  Read more here.

The middle to old aged, celibate men who will never get pregnant, never marry, and if they themselves father a child, it will be in secret, who tell women that they can not use birth control and never to have an abortion, have deemed the use of fetal cell lines acceptable.  I am a Catholic woman. Divorced. My Grandmother was divorced in the early 1930s, and unable to take the sacrament of Communion throughout her life.  It crushed her to sit in the pew when the rest of us would take our turns. She was considered a sinner. She was not. I'm not sure if I would be able to walk up the aisle to Communion in  my former Parish here in my town, the Priest is extremely Conservative and strict. But The Vatican has approved fetal cell lines in Covid vaccines. This isn't new information. No major religion has disallowed vaccination because of how they are made, including Muslims and Jews for pig derived ingredients.

Moral relativism: No, it's not when cousins kiss.  Moral relativism is the idea that there is no universal or absolute set of moral principles. It’s a version of morality that advocates “to each her own,” and those who follow it say, “Who am I to judge?” Moral Relativism - U Texas

Comments

Joe F.

There is no evidence that this vaccine will save many lives. Fauci said all it will do is reduce mild symptoms. It doesn't prevent disease or transmission. Look, it up, cia! Inform yourself so we don't have to keep repeating ourselves.

Emmaphiladelphia

@ CIA

I am not a Catholic, I am a follower of Christ. He has never said to kill innocents in the womb. He has never said to commit adultery or fornication, both of which leave families and children vulnerable. He has never said to overcome evil with more evil (aborted babies turned into multibillion dollar vaccine products.) You do well to point out the hypocrisy of those who falsely call themselves followers of Christ. God is separating the wheat from the tares. THANK YOU FOR DOING THE LORD'S WORK!
Even Dr. Plotkin, the jewish self proclaimed atheist, called out the Catholic doctrine in defending the fact that he had overseen the use of 70+ aborted babies (at a time when abortion was illegal in the U.S.) in order to create the WI 38 cell line to grow vaccine virus in.

Cia

TOB,

It’s not just this virus. The Catholic Church has always approved the use of vaccines, even when made from cells from aborted fetuses, as has always been the case for several vaccines.

It would not be the reason we accepted or rejected a vaccine, I personally don’t think it’s important, but I don’t care what others do.

TOB

Cia, I think you are missing the point of this post. The Catholic Church does not believe in the use of condoms to save lives. This is a faith that has hard and fast rules for pretty much everything, and they're being waved aside in the case of this virus. People are free to make their own decisions, but the moral leadership of the Catholic Church should not endorse a product tested on cell lines from the remains of an aborted baby. Full stop.

The bioethics columnist syndicated in my diocese's newspaper urged Catholics who choose to get the Pfizer vaccine to write a stern letter to Pfizer asking the company not to use aborted baby products again. The naivete is stunning. Aborted baby products are cheap, and if Catholics line up for vaccines made or tested with them, why would any drug company ever stop using them? A boycott of morally unacceptable products is the only way to make companies sit up and take notice.

Emmaphiladelphia

"I take that to mean 95% of the vaxxed will not get Covid or suffer its disabling or fatal effects"

Uhmmm CIA, we're already there WITHOUT the vax. The real criminals are the one's who have tried to prevent the use of known SUCCESSFUL treatments.
Gee, you have the heart of Dorit. GOD BLESS YOU!

greyone

cia
we agree it is about the numbers.
in the trillions.

Gerardo Martinez

As a baptized catholic when I was a few days old and growing up in the Church. I am not surprised at this. I will be a life long Catholic, but I follow morals of Jesus and not the universal church's moral teaching. Rome what a joke you are. This hurts me to say, but what are you failing to see?? Wrong is Wrong. To purgatory with the greater good. The greater good MMR forever damaged by beautiful son at 12 months old. Sell some of your priceless artifacts to help the poor- you won't do it. I have found that the Protestant churches and day cares are far more understanding and allow vaccine exemptions. Our own catholic school(now closed)did not! Who is really prolife??
The turning point for me was a few years ago in Kenya the brave bishops and a certain Cardinal (I think) discovered a certain hormone in the Tetnus vaccine(I think) that would cause a female once vaccinated and pregnant to abort the baby at around 4-5 months. The Kenyan Church leadership turned to Rome, but no help came. Only Crickets. So disappointed!

Cia

Grey one,

We’ll see about the longterm effects. Right now large numbers are dying every day of Covid. The new vaccines have 95% efficacy. I take that to mean 95% of the vaxxed will not get Covid or suffer its disabling or fatal effects. What you mention are what some people have put forward as possible effects of the vaccine. Absolutely, everyone has the right to accept or refuse the vaccine on any grounds. But the suffering and deaths are what we are seeing right now. When many choose the vaccine to probably avoid the worst consequences of the disease, I think that’s a valid choice. Maybe in the future we’ll see many horrible vaccine reactions, or maybe not.

Emmaphiladelphia

Will baby WI38's mother have a place in the Covid 19 Relief Package funded Smithsonian Women’s History Museum? Will museum closure mandates be over before it is finished? If so, will a Covid 19 vaccination "passport" be required for entry?
https://twitter.com/RepMaloney/status/1341101552082313219

Wow. The Circle of Life.....

Cia

It is possible for a vaccine or therapeutics to save lives. How many lives have been saved by antibiotics which would have been lost without them? We will see within weeks if those who have gotten one of the Covid vaccines stop contracting it. By comparison with now, we will see how many fewer Covid deaths occur. I don’t think many will deny the connection when vaxxed people stop getting Covid and sometimes dying of it, while unvaxxed people continue getting it (fewer if a lot start taking Ivermectin, we’ll see).

Dr. Yazbak said years ago how miraculous it had been when he participated in a polio vaccination campaign in Rhode Island in 1960. Polio levels dropped from high to zero immediately after the vaccination campaign. He said many didn’t go back for the second and third doses, the disappearance of polio there was so complete and immediate.

I think you always have to weigh risks and benefits. Rubella had reached ghastly levels by the mid-1960s in the US. The vaccine was introduced in 1968, and birth defects from rubella disappeared. Yes, the rubella and polio vaccines have caused severe conditions and disabilities. I would never deny that. Free choice is essential. But most people have preferred the vaccines to the diseases, and so we no longer have the diseases. Yes, we have autism, etc. Parents must research the issues and choose wisely, trying to minimize vaccines while still preventing the more dangerous and prevalent diseases.

Dr. Moskowitz said toward the end of Vaccination that he supported vaccination campaigns during epidemics of dangerous disease. I don’t think it’s an all or nothing issue. But at this time we are living through such an epidemic.

greyone

"I think the main consideration is that the vaccine will save many lives".
in public health, there is an unfortunate tendency to look at only a single data point, and sometimes that is what is marketable.

Will vaccination, or "gene therapy" as some have called it, promote overall health, or increase overall mortality? increase cancers? create problems for offspring? increase mutations?
Forethought doesn't provide answers, but product publicity campaigns overlooking the intense censorship of criticism, discussion, and concern, certainly dampens any belief that spiritual matters are at play in these endeavors.


EMMAPHILADELPHIA

Baby WI38, WHOSE YOUR DADDY?

According to Dr. Plotkin's sworn deposition, the mother of WI38 was in a mental institution during a time when abortion was illegal in the United States. Did the law allow an exception for rape? If so, was this mother raped? To perform an abortion at this time, it would have been illegal or there was a court case to allow it. Was this court case available through open records act? Who performed the abortion and what was their relationship with Dr. Plotkin? In other words, how did he know this baby was "available?" The tissue would have to be kept alive. Was the baby born alive? So many unanswered questions, yet this child's DNA fragments have been injected into countless American chldren.

If it was not rape, then the woman had a husband. Under what law was the abortion legal, if this was the case? We need to know this information. WE NEED TO KNOW WHO THE DADDY IS.

In 2020, WE CAN KNOW! Thanks to the Rapid Response PCR test (yes, the one that is fraudulently used to diagnose Covid 19, even though the Nobel prize winning inventor DR. KARY MULLIS said it could NOT be used for that purpose). The original WI38 cell line is kept frozen at Wistar Institute. The time has come to find out WHO THE DADDY IS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvvP90Cpdfc

Gary Ogden

Cia, repeat after me, "It is not possible to save a life, it is not possible to save a life." Because it is not possible. It is possible to delay or hasten death through accidents of birth, lifestyle choices, and some medical interventions, but mortality is the inevitable ultimate result of birth. We do not know if vaccination, on a population level, hastens or delays death. We simply do not know. We do know from the three recently published papers comparing vaccinated and unvaccinated children that unvaccinated children are healthier. Logic would extrapolate this to a longer and healthier lifespan, but we cannot say with any degree of scientific certainty that this is the case. We do know a great deal about how to maintain vibrant health throughout our lifespan. One of the essential keys is nutrient status. Those who have been hit hard by this fake pandemic invariably have poor vitamin D status. Some micronutrients are crucial, as well, in the immune system's ability to function well against the 'Rona. Selenium, as is the case with Ebola, is one. Zinc plays an important role in inhibiting viral replication within cells. Copper has nearly vanished in our food supply due to conventional farming, which essential mines soil rather than builds soil health. We only need tiny amount of Cu and Se, but the Standard American diet is almost completely lacking in them. If only 12% of Americans are metabolically healthy, its a wonder the 'Rona hasn't taken more. You can take your vaccines if you wish, but I will continue to hunt down, purchase, and prepare high-quality nutrient-dense foods for my family.

Emmaphiladelphia

@CIA

"I think the main consideration is that the vaccine will save many lives."
Thank you for defining moral relativism. Kill a few to save a few...aka HUMAN SACRIFICE.

"The women whose aborted fetuses were used in vaccine development did not get an abortion in order to sell or donate the fetuses: they got abortions for their own reasons."

WI 38, The original abortion based cell line created by Dr. Stanley Plotkin in 1963 used the aborted male from a mother in a mental health institution, according to SWORN TESTIMONY. The other 70+ babies sacrificed to arrive at that 38th attempt were, according to Plotkin's sworn testimony, obtained through a Swedish co-researcher. What was never addressed during the sworn testimony is the fact that in 1963, in the United States, ABORTION WAS ILLEGAL.

"So those who freely choose to get the vaccine are helping to save lives"
Actually, they are choosing to participate in CHILD SACRIFICE. There is no scientific evidence that the Covid vaccines "save lives." There is evidence that they harm.

Remember the "fainting nurse?"
"THE Tennessee nurse who passed out live on television after receiving the coronavirus vaccine has "vanished" sparking outlandish claims she had died."

"She has since been inactive on all of her social media accounts and has not been seen in the public eye."

"CHI Memorial Hospital issued a statement via their Twitter account stating Dover was alive and well."

"Despite the statement, people remained unconvinced as they questioned the reason for the hospital providing the statement.

Social media sleuths noticed she has not posted on her Instagram account for five days, when she normally posts every couple of days.

"I just heard that Tiffany Dover the nurse who fainted after the Covid shot is dead. Her friend on Facebook said this and family is getting death threats so they shut up. There is also a gag order," one tweeted."

"One Twitter user said: "I don't believe this. Why doesn't #TiffanyDover, her family or her hospital respond to her death rumours for real?

Allegedly she was doing fine already shortly after the fainting incident, and she was so eager to be in public with her vaccination - why does she need privacy now?""
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/us-news/13536581/tiffany-dover-dead-covid-vaccine-fainted-missing/

Cia

I think the main consideration is that the vaccine will save many lives. The women whose aborted fetuses were used in vaccine development did not get an abortion in order to sell or donate the fetuses: they got abortions for their own reasons. So those who freely choose to get the vaccine are helping to save lives, regardless of the vaccine’s provenance.

TOB

I could not have said it better myself, Kim.

As a lifelong Catholic, I was heartbroken and bewildered when the bishops in my state folded like a cheap tent, not just removing the *obligation* to participate in Sunday Mass, but making it literally impossible. And although two Protestant groups (Lutherans and Wesleyans) had outdoor services (literally at a drive-in-theater), the leaders of our faith just weren't up to it. Jesus preached outdoors, but "If the Mass were outdoors, they'd have to drag the Mass kit" (https://www.ncronline.org/news/coronavirus/once-forbidden-outdoor-catholic-weddings-could-be-pandemic-trend). We were told we couldn't even be present while the host was consecrated, because outdoors, "it might be flying around." One local Catholic church had a few Masses in the parking lot in July (priest under a tent with the Eucharist; people in cars), but everybody else stayed out of church until they could caution-tape 2/3 of the rows, mandate masks, and call it "safe." As if Jesus ever did what was safe.

I wish I could say I was surprised by the hypocrisy of saying "hell for Trojans" but "no probs with vaccines tested on aborted fetal cell lines," but I'm not. The power structure of the church in which I was raised is like any other power structure--it perpetuates itself by making deals with the devil. Internal inconsisteny? Whatever!

I'm going to follow my own conscience on this issue, not the diktat of hoary old men in the Vatican. Then again, I would also narc on a rapist priest, not send him on a vacation to New Mexico to molest other young people. Perhaps being a good Christian is different from being a good Catholic.

Bob Moffit

If the Vatican cannot distinguish what is RIGHT or WRONG … or even worse … is too afraid to make the obvious distinction …. our world is in dire need of a SAVIOR.

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