"Triumph" and "Ambush" vaccines to be rolled out in the UK next month?
When Autism Becomes A Fatal Condition

New York Rabbi Begs For President Trump To Help Jewish Community

Rabbi W handlerBy Anne Dachel

Rabbi Hillel Handler from New York City is someone I first got to know in 2013 when he was speaking out against the forced vaccination of Orthodox Jewish children against measles.

Rabbi Handler had done his own research and he understood the dangers of an untested, unsafe, liability-free vaccine and how our basic liberties were being threatened.

Today in 2020 the government is again threatening our rights.

Early in October the New York Times  reported that NYC mayor, Bill DeBlasio was closing schools, restaurants and non-essential businesses in neighborhoods with large numbers of Jewish residents, all this because of reported increases in COVID positive testing. Several hundred Jewish yeshivas are affected by this.

New York Governor Andrew Cuomo

blames the Jewish residents for the increase in positive tests, saying, ‘We had the rules. It wasn’t enforced in these areas.’ Now the schools are being closed and religious services are limited to 10 people.

Rabbi Handler was interviewed about the new restrictions on October 6 in a video entitled, New York Rabbi Begs For President Trump To Help Jewish Community

“To kill a person spiritually is worse than to kill him physically.”

Rabbi Handler gave an ominous warning about the government’s mandates limiting religious services, closing schools and forcing people to wear masks.

“What is the purpose of the mask? The purpose of the mask is to get you to comply, to scare you.

“Herman Goering of the Third Reich was asked at the Nuremberg Trial, how did you get the German people to do this terrible, horrible Holocaust?

“He said, ‘It’s easy. You just scare them. You inflict terror.’

“The mask is a tool of terror. You look around you, everyone is wearing a mask. Oh God! Our lives are in danger. We have to do whatever the governor says, whatever the mayor says.

“Your mind is frozen, you can’t think straight.

“Who is this governor who cares about us?

“This is a man who made a regulation, an executive order, dictatorial executive order: nursing homes in New York State must take in people from the hospitals who are stricken with COVID 19 and bring them into a population of vulnerable people who are weak, who haven’t got strong immune systems. He was warned by emails from the nursing home operators, you’re going to kill our people! Don’t do it.”

Rabbi Handler explained that Cuomo threaten to remove the licenses of nursing home operators.

“So under blackmail, they followed his orders and forty percent of the deaths in New York State, around 11,000 elderly people, died. Not died, they were murdered, intentionally.”

The rabbi pointed out the hypocrisy of New York Mayor De Blasio ordering lockdowns while promoting mobs of people involved in the Blacks Lives Matter movement.

“If the mayor really and truly believes that social distancing is important, masks are important, why did he address a Black Lives Matter rally in Brooklyn, over a thousand people, packed together like sardines, and the mayor lecturing to them without a mask. If he really thought that they would die, would he have done that? …

“The answer is these politicians know that this mask is bologna, social distancing is bologna…

“The First Amendment gives us religious rights and you can’t simply take away people’s right to practice their religion because of some medical extremism.”

Rabbi Handler commented on the real purpose of COVID positive test results.

“Because of these tests they can go to the media and say, oh, we’re having so many cases and therefore it’s critical, and in the minds of people who are not too knowledgeable, a case means death. …

He continued saying that last winter officials reported on the COVID deaths, now, with fewer people dying, they talk about people testing positive.

He warned that people must stand together and not close down their schools, not surrender their rights.

I asked Rabbi Handler about his comments on governments using fear and he said, “That is how the corrupt CDC gets everyone to follow their insane and deadly vaccine mandates!”

His words about giving up our rights due to fear of a pandemic was a chilling reminder of what medical freedom advocate Robert Kennedy, Jr. said in Berlin in August.

During his remarks at a press conference there on August 28, 2020, Robert Kennedy, Jr. said this about how tyrannical governments use their power and he also cited Goering’s words.

“For many years totalitarian or authoritarian states have used the power of fear to engineer compliance in populations. I grew up understanding what happened in World War II in our country.

“During the Nuremberg Trials, Herman Goering was asked by the prosecutor, how did you make the German people comply? Goering said, it’s not just Germany, this works in any country, whether it’s a fascist country or a communist country or a monarchy or a democracy. All the rulers need to do is to tell the people that there’s something they need to be fearful of. Point a finger at that source of their fear and you can make human beings do anything you want. You can make them go to the slaughter like sheep; you can make them obey.” 

He continued making an ominous observation about COVID 19 and government control.

Now they have a source of fear that is the most pervasive, an all-encompassing power that they’ve ever had which is the fear of pandemic. 

Governments love pandemics the same way that they love wars because it gives them power; it gives them control and it gives them the capacity to impose obedience on human beings. 

Today we have an inflection of new technology that give governments the capacity to impose controls on populations that have never been imagined before in human history by any tyrant in history. 

We all need to listen to these two outspoken critics of the government’s overreaching actions. Here in Wisconsin, like many places, Governor Evers has issued his latest executive order that went into effect at 8 a.m. on Thursday, October 8th.  Bars and restaurants can only operate at 25 percent capacity.

When we see governors and mayors ruling like despots because of a disease, we should all be concerned about where this is going. I’ve seen where several mainstream national news outlets have announced that the government won’t force anyone to receive a COVID 19 vaccine when it becomes available since there is growing concern over vaccine safety.

The media is really saying is that while the federal government can’t force Americans to be vaccinated, state governments can. Governors like Cuomo and Evers can make school attendance and employment contingent on being vaccinated. Creating fear is the way to set the stage for the next rule that must be enforced in order to end the pandemic: vaccination against COVID 19.

Comments

Morag

www.thejc.com>news>new-report-warns-that-79-of.....
New report warns that 79% of anti-vaccination networks are ? 2 days ago.

This report sounds really odd?
Aims and objectives of trying to cause a rumpus and a caustic commotion in an empty hospital canteen !

Benedetta

Morag :
I am not sure I followed all that you were saying.

But I love the way you said it. So beautiful sounding.

Morag

Benedetta ,aye, I think you could be right enough? There is a good wee book by John Prebble . The Highland Clearances.
Book available to read online at
books.google.co.uk
The Highland Clearances -Google Book Result
"since you have prefered sheep to men ,let sheep defend you!"
My was shunted ,sorry should say shifted from their croft in The Great Glen to the north coast at Skerray - The place between the rocks and the sea .
They had to learn how to sail their new fishing boats at warp speed after they got a loan to get one .
They had to learn fast because they all could not swim and the water was too cold to learn ,some drowned trying. Bits of the original "The Lark " still on the beach at Skerray.
Ralph Vaughan Williams " The Lark Ascending" - Nicola Benedetti You Tube . Just beautiful .

Morag

Well Cia ,I can certainly understand your concerns re masks /mandates . If you have time you may want to take a look at :
www.collective-evolution.com>2020/10/07 7 October 2020
Dr Margareta Griesz-Brisson , Die da sind toll! -This dr is fab!

Community angst will wear people down fast ?
Make sure you get a daily dose of immune boosting belly laughter!

Two men got fined on a European nudist beach for not wearing masks !
I dread to think where they might of had their eurodollars stashed? to pay their on the spot fine!

Hera

Hi Carolyn M,
I feel very sorry for your daughter.
Per the CDC guidelines, spending 15 minutes talking to someone with COVID, whether both or neither of the people are wearing masks, means people have to quarantine. It seems then that the CDC doesn't feel, at least in their guidelines, that masks help much, so imo, it seems particularly cruel for the state to force your daughter to stay home for how long; a year?
I can imagine a sneeze might go less far in a mask, but their statement that a mask can protect others but not yourself makes no sense. COVID particles can be easily stopped by a mask going one way, but can pass through a mask easily, going the other way? It makes as much sense as early on when we were told that masks could identify your profession ( nurse or doctor versus everyone else) and based on that, decide whether to work or not.
From the CDC's website, under frequently asked questions
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html
"Yes, you are still considered a close contact even if you were wearing a mask while you were around someone with COVID-19. Masks are meant to protect other people in case you are infected, and not to protect you from becoming infected."

Just a thought,( and this is definitely not legal advice! I am not a lawyer and have no idea what the legal standing on this is) but it might be easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission.
Have you considered just turning up at a store, and when asked for your daughters mask briefly show them some kind of document from your doctor, say "Here's her medical exemption" in firm tones, and confidently walk straight in. And if they start to give you a hard time, ask them in a shocked voice whether it is their store policy to discriminate against people with disabilities...This kind of thing sometimes works better when you are accompanied by a man who looks slightly intimidating ( both the "I could be a lawyer" look, or the' I could be a biker" look, can work wonders in reducing questions :) Generally, I have noticed that guys are sometimes given a bit more leeway.
(As one of my favorite authors once pointed out people who protest animal cruelty by throwing paint on women wearing furs somehow never seem to throw paint on bikers wearing leathers...) I have no idea whether this would work or not, but do know that what at this point must be about 6 months of house arrest for your daughter, is deeply unfair.

Carolyn M

Bob,

Thank you for sharing the great news about your brother's recovery.

Carolyn M

Cia,

I think you are having trouble visualizing the suffering (serious injury) which can result from self-injurious behavior - specifically headbanging/head hitting.

Serious injuries such as skull fractures, retina detachment, and broken noses have occurred in individuals who engaged in headbanging/head hitting. The behavior may not be just one hard hit; individuals who do this have been observed to hit 100s of times in a short time span when having a very intense meltdown. Also, they can hit with the force of a professional boxer.

Source for some of this information: "Understanding and Treating Self-Injurious Behavior in Autism: A Multi-Disciplinary Perspective" ed. by Stephen M. Edelson and Jane Botsford Johnson.

My daughter already has a written medical exemption from wearing a mask; it was written by a doctor. We are looking for someplace that will honor it. We do not need to involve the local health department.

Benedetta

Wow Cia; why come back and pick on me, from a post way, way back! ?

Bob that is wonderful.
Interesting that that it was this community that supplied the antibodies.

They saved Trump from having a very prolonged illness or from dying.

LOL. Oh, That is why they are now on some New York official's hit list.

I wonder how much it will cost to be treated with these antibodies?

I still would like hydroxychloroquine (HQ) cause that is just an 80 dollar treatment; sounds good to me.
My sister-in-law that lost her son had immune problems from lupus to mythenis gravis so she was on HQ . She had no problems with covid 19 . Well maybe she did, but was numb from grief?

She was really concerned about her husband during this time; he was really sick for a while too, but not her.

Still it has come to my attention that if a doctor in Kentucky writes me a prescription, there is not a pharmacist that will fill it. Sigh.

Angus Files

Record crowds on southern Swedish beaches despite coronavirus warnings

Temperatures of 30 degrees and up have caused southern Swedish sun worshipers to flock in record numbers to beaches and bathing areas.
The police can do nothing about the congestion as long as no crimes are committed, as the Public Order Act which bans public gatherings of more than 50 people does not cover beaches and bathing areas.

In Tylösand outside Halmstad, as many as 40,000 beach visitors gathered on Saturday.

At Kämpingestranden in Höllviken in Skåne, there has been a record number of visitors with over 10,000 guests, reports Kvällsposten.

"It is an uncontrollable chaos. It is completely full", says Pontus Carlsson, head of security at Falsterbonäset's lifeguard, to the newspaper.

https://www.thelocal.se/20200809/record-crowds-on-southern-swedish-beaches
Pharma For Prison

MMR RIP

Angus Files


"If you speak of the Swedish, no-lockdown approach to Covid-19 without disparagement, a horde of midwits will descend on you to say that, actually, Sweden has had a large number of Covid-related deaths compared to its immediate ...

https://rationalreview.news-digests.com/archives/37108

Pharma For Prison

MMR RIP

susan welch

Cia, are you seriously suggesting people should wear masks - on beaches?

Carolyn M

Grace Green,

Thank you very much for your understanding.

From what I have read, part of the issue with some stores may be that my state has a "snitch" line - to report violations of the governor's orders concerning coronavirus. I have also read that there are "inspectors" who are checking restaurants and bars for compliance with those same orders. I don't know whether they are doing the same thing with regard to stores. I have also read that there is some talk of making the business restrictions permanent.

I have not checked all the grocery stores in our vicinity yet. I intend to do so soon (with my husband's help). The library appears to be an unlikely location for a trip right now from what I have read on their website.

Hopefully, I can find a store that will accommodate my daughter's needs.

Cia

Benedetta,

Safety on beaches would depend on how crowded it was and if people were wearing masks.

Emmaphiladelphia

@Bob Moffit

Wow! Thank you for sharing your powerful testimony. President Trump also claims his speedy recovery was due to the monoclonal antibody treatment. May God bless your brother in his continued recovery.

Cia

Bob,

I’m glad your brother is recovering! I just talked to someone about that the other day. President Trump was given, I think, two monoclonal antibody drugs or maybe one polyclonal one. It was very interesting, I hadn’t understood the difference between that and convalescent plasma, antibodies from the blood of a recovered person. The first is entirely artificially produced copies, clones, I guess, of human antibodies, one from a line of mice given human immune systems. It apparently cured Trump from one day to the next. He is so impressed that he said he was going to provide it for free to every coronavirus patient. I wish that that might be possible!

Cia

Carolyn M,

This situation is hard on everyone. But everyone has to play by the rules. If the rules where you live exempt your daughter from some restrictions, fine. If they don’t, I think you should cooperate with them. I think many commenters here aren’t visualizing the suffering and often death caused by spreading Covid. Usually by people who had no clue they were carrying it and spreading it. I just read this morning about a woman who was tested, went to a family get together with happy children playing in the yard, adults eating together and talking all afternoon and evening. It turned out that the woman’s test was positive and she gave Covid to many of her relatives who were there, some of whom were hospitalized. I don’t think we should say Oh, well, she did nothing wrong. She should have isolated while waiting for test results and worn a mask, distanced, etc. At this stage of the game all of us know that.

Call the public health department and find out what your community expects you to do in your situation. Maybe it will exempt you.

Grace Green

Carolyn,
I'm sorry to hear about the struggle you and your daughter are having during this madness. I understand exactly what you're saying. Here in Scotland, in the early days, we were told that autistic children had "leave" to go out more often than others, and also that, if it was a "matter of safety" then you could do what was necessary. More recently I have heard that not one penalty which has been challenged has succeeded. In other words, governments know that these "rules" they are decreeing contravene human rights laws, and they don't want to land themselves with compensation bills. So they put out contradictory information and then leave the people to turn against each other. Whenever a totalitarian regime takes over you can be sure a cohort of really nasty characters will crawl out of the woodwork, to satisfy their problems.
My last comment giving the scientific facts was censored, I'm not sure why.

Bob Moffit

@ Emaphiladelphia

"Convalescent plasma (CP) donated by those recovered from COVID-19 contains antibodies that, in principle, should help recipients fight infection. Anecdotal successes and historical data with this approach create hope that it will be a very effective strategy, especially if given early in the course of the infection, or prophylactically, to high-risk individuals such as nursing-home residents."

I have an older brother (84) who was admitted to ICU suffering from Covid infection .. his attending physician conducted a conference call with myself (81) and another brother (85) wherein the doctor informed us he was seriously considering placing my brother on a ventilator and wanted to inform us of his intention. We both expressed serious objection to the ventilator having learned the ventilator may be more problem than solution .. we begged him to consider alternative treatment and use of a ventilator only as a LAST RESORT. We both expected the worse when we phoned the ICU to learn of our brother's condition the very next morning … needless to say .. we were stunned to hear ICU nurse inform us our brother was sitting up and having his breakfast with only oxygen tubes in his nose to help his shortness of breath. The doctor soon informed us he had prescribed CONVELSECENT PLASMA and within hours he had improved so much the ventilator was no longer considered. It was a remarkable recovery … in hospital about 30 days .. today in a home receiving physical theraphy in preparation to being eventually discharged. He is a long way from completely recovered .. but … we have since learned CP was FINALLY APPROVED ONLY TEN DAYS BEFORE HE RECEIVED THIS LIFE SAVING INTERVENTION.

Yes this is anecdotal .. but … it sure as hell has made a strong believer of our family.

Emmaphiladelphia

More detailed videos of Brooklyn Orthodox community defending their First Amendment rights. Video of passerby yelling at one to put a mask on (while walking outside). More video of mask burning.

Brooklyn’s Orthodox Jews burn masks in uprising against Gov. Cuomo’s new anti-Covid synagogue occupancy restrictions
https://www.rt.com/usa/502761-brooklyn-orthodox-jews-burn-masks/

Carolyn M

@Cia,

You have missed my point concerning my daughter.

My daughter has severe autism. She CANNOT wear either a mask or a face shield.

Before mask mandates she was able to go to both the grocery store and the library. Those trips were both educational (life skills) and enjoyable for her.

Having groceries delivered (to home or curbside) is not visiting the grocery store, picking something out for yourself and buying it. That is what my daughter thinks a trip to the grocery store is. She does not understand these restrictions. Therefore, there is not an alternative that can be "worked out".

Walking around the neighborhood is not enough for her. We have tried it; she tries to lead me to the car so that we can "go somewhere ".

If we are unable to accommodate her need to resume these activities, her behavior WILL begin to deteriorate. She will begin having meltdowns. These meltdowns are very likely to include self-injurious behavior - specifically head-banging. That can have serious health consequences.

My daughter is already asking to go somewhere most days.

My daughter is unlikely to have coronavirus - other than to a lab for a blood draw, she has not been anywhere for quite some time. If we are able to take her somewhere, I will keep her with me and not let her get too close to anyone other than my husband.

Your lack of compassion for my daughter - and others like her who CANNOT wear a mask - is absolutely astounding.

 Cia

Another angle on Sweden. It required that all children under 15 attend classes in person no matter what.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.in/science/news/no-lockdown-sweden-is-compelling-parents-to-send-their-children-to-school-some-fear-their-kids-could-ultimately-be-taken-away-if-they-refuse-/amp_articleshow/76492878.cms

Cia

The woman was at a middle school football game. She didn’t have to be there. I have never in my life gone to any football game, yet have lived a rich and fulfilling life. If I were at a middle school anything and someone said, You don’t have a mask, you have to leave, I would leave. Since she may have been endangering others, all school and legal personnel were justified in asking her to leave and, when she became belligerent, making her leave. How dare she say that it is her incontrovertible right to defy the rules and infect whoever the hell she wants?

I require respect for local rules. If they say autists can attend whatever without a mask because of their condition, fine. Even though they can get and transmit covid. Or asthmatics or whatever. If local rules or laws say they may not, also fine. This protects lives. Face shields are a great alternative where permitted or required. For those who can’t or refuse to wear either one, if they can’t go to the grocery store, most stores deliver to your home. Such people should talk to public and social service officials to work out details of what they may or may not do. I’m sure that in every case, something reasonable can be worked out, but the impaired person is not the only one who has rights. He has the duty to protect others as much as anyone else.

Carolyn M

@Cia,

I inadvertently omitted a point:

The woman who was tased - Ms. Kitts - lives between 1.25 hours and 1.5 hours away from the location of the football game. Round-trip time would be 2.5 to 3 hours. The governor's idea is not feasible - and it is also possibly self-serving. Ms. Kitts had a medical exemption and was "socially distanced". Nothing should have been done to her.

Being unable to go into a business or event in spite of having a legitimate medical exemption to wearing a mask is perilously close to placing someone under house arrest. My daughter is one of those individuals who has a legitimate medical exemption to wearing a mask. Wearing one is IMPOSSIBLE for her. If she can be denied entry to businesses without a mask, then she her behavior will deteriorate and she will have meltdowns which include self-injurious behavior. Walking around the neighborhood is insufficient for her. She needs to be able to go into the library and grocery stores again. She cannot wait forever.

Carolyn M

@Cia,

I do not regard CNN as a reliable source.

As for the rest of your post:

1. From what I have read, asthma is a medical condition that the governor's order exempted from the mask mandate - and so did the school athletic policy.

2. The woman was also more "socially distant" from non-family members than was required by the governor's order.

3. The woman asked to speak to the administrator concerning her exemption. She was not allowed to do so. This is not indicative of belligerence.

4. Any statements by the governor or school district personnel could be made in order to try to avoid a lawsuit. Please note what has already been publicly stated on this subject by a very successful attorney.

TASING the woman was NOT JUSTIFIED.

vaxxus

Cia,

What you are saying makes as much sense as using the fatality rates for plane crashes which would be nearly 100% to determine the risk of flying.

Yes nearly 100% of plane crashes result in death but that's not the risk of flying.

Emmaphiladelphia

Is this the same Orthodox community in the article above?

"Convalescent plasma (CP) donated by those recovered from COVID-19 contains antibodies that, in principle, should help recipients fight infection. Anecdotal successes and historical data with this approach create hope that it will be a very effective strategy, especially if given early in the course of the infection, or prophylactically, to high-risk individuals such as nursing-home residents.
THIS APPROACH is under scrutiny through clinical trials run out of the Mayo Clinic. The New York Orthodox Jewish community has been at the forefront of donating plasma and characterizing it through the COVID Plasma Initiative. The use of CP and hyper-immune serum (an enriched serum that is high in antibodies against a specific pathogen) or CP spiked with monoclonal antibodies (a single antibody known to target a feature of the virus) are both very exciting derivatives of this strategy."
https://www.jpost.com/opinion/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-631590?utm_source=spotim&utm_medium=spotim_recirculation&spot_im_redirect_source=pitc&spot_im_comment_id=sp_jpost_631590_c_L4lPab&spot_im_highlight_immediate=true

Cia

Carolyn M,

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/09/26/us/ohio-woman-tased-football-game-mask-trnd/index.html

The woman was told many times to leave if she wouldn’t wear a mask. She said she had asthma. The governor later said she could have left to get a face shield and come back. Her stance was that people with asthma shouldn’t have to wear a mask, they didn’t agree. It’s not a human right written in stone, but whose rights you choose to defend in a particular case. She chose to be belligerent and refuse to obey the police officer’s order. No, I have no sympathy for her.

Vaxxus,

If you choose to go by the rate determined by those who have a positive antibody test rather than a current case, you are including large numbers who had no or mild symptoms. Most of those who had Covid like symptoms got a PCR test at the time. But a lot of people wonder if maybe they had it back in -, when they had a fever, cough, breathlessness, or whatever. But for the most part, they’re well now. So if they’re positive, you’re diluting the numbers of case fatalities by including mild or relatively mild cases. Or testing a random population for antibodies and finding positives in those who had no idea they had it. Again, diluting the characteristic and diagnosed cases.

I’m more interested in knowing that if I cough and am positive, I have a 4% chance of dying. 6% if I’m in Sweden. I don’t care about a 0.002 ratio, 0.2 %, of dying if my cohort is all those who got a mild or entirely asymptomatic case.

Angus Files

5 Charts That Show Sweden’s Strategy Worked. The Lockdowns Failed
Sweden showed there's a better way to combat COVID-19.
Friday, October 9, 2020

Government officials in Sweden announced this week that the government expects to maintain its mild restrictions on gatherings “for at least another year” to mitigate the spread of COVID-19.

Unlike most other European countries and nations around the world, Sweden declined to initiate a nationwide lockdown or mask mandates, opting instead for a policy that restricted large gatherings and relied on social responsibility to slow transmission of the virus.

For months, Sweden was criticized for its decision to forego an economic lockdown.

“Sweden becomes an example of how not to handle COVID-19,” CBS declared in its headline in a July article.

Sweden had become a “cautionary tale,” the New York Times declared the same month.

“They are leading us to catastrophe,” The Guardian warned in March.

Dozens of similar examples can be found. With every passing week, however, it’s becoming more clear that Sweden got the virus right. For starters, Swedish officials point out that even if lockdowns did save lives, they cannot long be endured.

Pharma For Prison

MMR RIP

vaxxus

Cia,

I am not sure what your point is as your numbers clearly show that far less than 4% of those who are infected die from Coronavirus.

Far more than 6% of the Swedish population have been infected as we have learned that in many cases serum antibodies don't last more than a few weeks and not everyone who is infected will develop antibodies. Most of these 6% would be just the cases in the last weeks.

If we are talking about 20% of the population for example that would be 2 million people and 6000 deaths in 2 million people are an infection fatality rate of 1 in 300 not the 1 in 25 that you are promoting.

How many people who are diagnosed is irrelevant as most people who don't get too sick are never officially diagnosed.

So apparently the virus kills one in hundreds of people it infects not 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 as you were suggesting.

Cia

Tim,

Not natural, bioengineered. I think it accidentally escaped the lab, but I get shouldn’t have been doing gain of function research to make viruses more transmissible and virulent. With a lot of funding by the US. Look at the genome. The nucleotide sequences. Most normal, typical for horseshoe bats. In the normal course of things, one nucleotide letter could mutate and change to another. But here we have a sequence out of nowhere, with no connection to bats or pangolins. PRRA. All together, just as it occurs with other viruses, but NOT bat or pangolin viruses. And it just happens to endow the coronavirus with its distinctive spike protein which gives it a unique ability to invade a cell through a receptor site.

Yes, there was an article in Nature in April that said it WAS strange, but it was confident it was of no importance, nothing to see here. And many of the authors are connected to the bio lab companies involved. Hmm. It WOULD be awkward if certain companies and governments were responsible for paying millions of dollars each to every patient killed or disabled by the bioengineered disease. Good thing we now have the new financial method of just printing out billions of dollars.

greyone

sharing an interesting interview with Vera Sharav
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h_EDV_7s7Dc

Cia

Vaxxus,

Most cases of Covid in Sweden were in Stockholm. Stockholm wound up with maybe 15% with antibodies, while the rest of Sweden was about 7%. Like everywhere else, Covid cases have not been evenly distributed across the entire country. Most Swedes have not gotten it. But among those diagnosed by PCR, 6% have died of it. And if you were to take out the positive diagnoses who never had symptoms, it would be much higher.

Carolyn M

@Cia,

Concerning your recent post (October 14, 2020 at 11:46am), I am hoping that you just didn't read what I posted very carefully.

The woman who was arrested at the football game not only had a medical exemption from wearing a mask - she was outside and "socially distanced" more than 6 feet from everyone on the bleachers other than family members. She did not violently resist arrest - and SHE WAS TASERED!

Is your reaction still "Works for me"?

If so, your fear of this virus has completely overwhelmed you. I had thought better of you.

Cia

Vaxxus,

There are three measures: case fatality rate, the rate at which people diagnosed with active COVID die. At present 4%. Yes, it’s more misleading now than at the beginning because the test used usually is carried out for forty cycles rather than the more indicative 25 or 30, yielding a positive for those minimally infected and not sick. But it means that the death rate of those truly sick is much higher than 4%.

There’s infection fatality rate. You say it is calculated solely using those testing positive for antibodies, despite the many problems and errors in doing that, especially that antibodies are NOT permanent, but often fade quickly. And not everyone who gets the disease produces antibodies. I linked an article explaining more ways in which antibody tests are unreliable. But the one thing they DO do is dilute the death rate.

Then there’s the mortality rate, the death rate using the entire population as the denominator, whether they ever got the disease or not. At this time it is of little interest to me and I NEVER said that 4% of the Swedish population had died of COVID. Sweden has a little over 10 million inhabitants. Let me glance at the number diagnosed, I don’t have a calculator with me. Over 100,000. Almost 6,000 deaths. So SIX percent of those diagnosed died of it. Six deaths in 10,000 Swedes, most of whom have never gotten it, if you want to calculate MORTLITY, as the word is technically used. The US, like the world, currently has four out of a hundred, one out of 25, die of it. And it would be higher if you were able to take out all the false positives, those positive with a 40 cycle test who would not have been positive at 30 cycles.

vaxxus

Cia,

I am not using a method. I don't calculate IFR rates, I simply report that all studies found IFR rates much below your 4%.

I am not diluting any numbers. Why would you say that?

I am sharing what is happening. You are the one misleading people for whatever reason.

 Cia

Cait,

Thank you. I agree. They used the benchmark system here in Coubia, Missouri, to decide how to start school this fall, they called it the Minnesota model. And ultimately they followed it when we suddenly got so many more cases that it was way over the benchmark, and they went to a continuation of online learning. They hated to do it. I think making it automatic solves a lot of problems.

Vaxxus,

https://www.matherhospital.org/wellness-at-mather/covid-19-antibody-testing-what-do-we-really-know/

What is your method for including in the infected number those who had the disease, but lost the antibodies days, weeks, or months before testing? Or is the only purpose to try to dilute the horrific numbers, in which case it’s a shame to lose the numbers of those who were infected but either never developed antibodies or lost them, but what the hell, you still have millions to throw people off the trail and make them incautioys.

Cia

Morag,

This is a tweet of a nurse coughing ver a Petri dish with and without a mask.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SophieSRapp/status/1264723749762301952/photo/1

All masks work to greatly reduce germs going in and out. N-95 or 100 are the best, with a tight seal around the edges, but even homemade cloth masks are at least 60% effective. Countries in which everyone in the general public immediately cooperated with masks, etc., like New Zealand, Mongolia, Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, and Vietnam got the disease under control very quickly. You and your family members are doing the right thing to wear them.

vaxxus

"Impossible? These are the figures. I care about diagnosed infection rates, as that is one of the few points we can be sure of."

Yes it's impossible as I have shown. Why not address what I have said? You avoided discussing my numbers again.

As a matter of fact despite widespread circulation of the virus the only 1 in thousands of Swedes died of Covid. Please explain how this is possible with a 4% death rate?

You can't ignore mild and asymptomatic cases to inflate the infection fatality rate. They are infections too. The majority of infections are either mild or asymptomatic.

Cia

Vaxxus,

Impossible? These are the figures. I care about diagnosed infection rates, as that is one of the few points we can be sure of.

World: 28,957,274 diagnosed cases as of today. 1,093,019 deaths. 4%.

US: 8,103,486 diagnosed cases as of today. 221,102 deaths. Almost 4%.

If many of the diagnosed cases were not symptomatic and never became symptomatic, that could very well mean that the death rate in the symptomatic is closer to the 10% it was for SARS and it was for several months for Covid.

Angus,

Give me a figure. How statistically is Sweden better off than its neighbors for allowing 6,000 of its citizens to die when they didn’t?

Benedetta,

I can’t think of any instance in which anyone has an undeniable right to both enter a venue without a mask. Maybe a baby being rushed to the ER or similar. The managers of the venue can always deny entrance to non-mask wearers on public safety grounds. Asthma? Well, ma’am, you’d be much safer at home and not put others at risk. Start screaming about it’s being a violation of your God-given rights? Allow us to escort you out. Refuse to go? Allow us to call the police. Works for me.

Benedetta

Morag; Wow, what a list of history! Every body has been trying to get rid of a lot of other every bodies all through history.

Some body seems to not like this group up in New York. This is the second time they have been picked on with the last couple of years with extreme measures using, infectious diseases as the pick end of a grub hoe. Makes me suspicious.


Cia; I wear my mask into the stores.
I have no faith that it will protect me, at all.
I do not touch my face, I wear gloves. I would wear gloves as well during this time and no mask if given a choice, but I am not given a choice.

I look at is as no shirt, no shoes, no service kind of thing. After that though; we have got to give people the freedom to make their own decisions. Viruses enter the body most often through the eyes, eyes, eyes. I am not touching my face and my eyes, eyes, eyes. or around my eyes, eyes, eyes.

I have two 90 plus year olds, a husband with an acquired mitochondrial disorder and my two adult children with their health problems as well ; I don't go any where much, but really that is my life for the last five years anyway. Nothing much has changed. But freedom, Freedom, oh freedom to make decisions and not be judged, or coerced or threatened, tasered, fined, or arrested, just presented with facts. Ohhh for freedom. .

John Stone;
I don't know where this heart stuff is going?
But I am glad you reported on it. College athletes are having problems of the heart with covid, but then it goes on to say ALL viruses can cause this since they are such exercising machines at that age.

Odd, that they even bothered to report on such a common thing then, except it is in such a high number of college students having heart problems linked to covid ; Odd!

It was also odd that doctors, medical staff in March noticed that those on ACE inhibitors were having the worse outcomes. In April Fauci even said so; but being the politician that he is, he also said they would have to study it. Now in October ACE inhibitors are found to actually protect people from the worse outcomes of covid. Oh, and those statin drugs too. Odd how you can go from such extreme viewpoints.


I think I have a dead nephew that was the delight of his family. An athlete in highschool, a weigh lifter after that. He got married a couple of years back, and put on some weight: he was a buff guy, muscular guy. He also was put on some new blood pressure medicines, and soon came down with covid. He died in his sleep from heart failure, now ain't that odd?

My husband was put on ACE inhibitors recently too -- right out of the blue, from a doctor that is all new! New doctor obtained a DO degree -- but went though a three year residency and is claiming a MD???? is that right, can that be done? That is Odd?


Odd too, how the pharmacy would not refill my husband's old meds and he had to go to the doctor for a refill. It is all changed from his life long beta blockers to ACE inhibitors.

It continues to be ODD- that Del Bigtree interviewed David Martin and David says that the CDC said that corona viruses had no real health out come problem prior at one time; all the while amplifying it's effects all through the 90s on heart myopathy of rabbits and then Odd all of a sudden we have SARS, MERS and now COVID 19.

Odd world, with odd evil people.
.

Morag

Stand firm with it ! till the medical monstrosities get hauled over the hot coals backwards !

Psalm 40 to Ballerma YouTube

"If ye need help, and ye shout help, ye.ll get nae help, so don't shout Help! shout Fire!" Glasgow Fire Brigade "Aye Ready,Aye laughing!"

Jerusalema Challenge .
Romanian Firefighters accepted Jerusalema dance challenge - YouTube
and
Provocare acceptica , Jerusalema - ISU OLT YouTube

Could Hitler have done the attrocities without, The Enablement Act, March 23, 1933.
A douppleganger? The Coronavirus enablement Act 2020 With National Lockdown from 23 March
2020!

Political Policies are way over The Thin Red Line of the limits and boundaries of their percieved authority ,they can away and stick their "Common Purpose "Indoctrination, right up their own jumpers!

candobetter.net>blogs>Matthew Mitchells blog
Scottish Clearences - The Removal of an Indigenous People - 5 May 2018
Highland Clearences History, Banned and censored from the school curriculum until recently!


Angus Files

The better Sweden does on the coronavirus, the angrier they get
October 12, 2020


My columns on Sweden’s laissez-faire approach to the coronavirus always provoke an angry response. But it is striking that, the better Sweden does, the angrier its critics become.

Like anti-Trumpers who couldn’t hide their annoyance at the success of the U.S. economy, or British Remainers who longed for a recession so as to be able to say “I told you so” about Brexit, lockdown enthusiasts determinedly screen out the good news.

They trot out three main arguments. First, they say, “You can’t compare us to Sweden. It has a low population density.” Second, they argue that “Sweden hasn’t succeeded; it has had more deaths per capita than neighboring countries.” Third, the claim that “Sweden has taken an economic hit as well — the worst of both worlds."

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/the-better-sweden-does-on-the-coronavirus-the-angrier-they-get

Pharma For Prison

MMR RIP

Carolyn M

For anyone who is interested:

What attorney Lin Wood said was from a tweet which was linked in one of the articles to which I posted links. He also had two other tweets concerning this woman's treatment. There were two on September 24. The one linked to in the article was:

"I do not solicit clients. I have enough.

" But I established a 501(c)(4) foundation, #FightBack to provide assistance to individuals whose rights have been egregiously violated. This young lady fits our profile.

"If she or her lawyer contacts me, @FightBackLaw will help her."

The other tweet on September 24 was:

"The mistreatment of this young lady is entirely unlawful & unacceptable on many levels, legally & morally.
" #FightBack for Your Rights
"@FightBackLaw"

There was one tweet on September 25 (in response to a tweet from another person):

"Ready to help if needed & contacted. There is no justification for this security guard's conduct. Unacceptable. Full stop.

" The eye of the video does not lie.
"#FjghtBack for Constitution
" @FightBackLaw"

I hope he is right and that she prevails.

Emmaphiladelphia

DC Congresswoman Eleanor Holmes Norton demands contact tracing for President Trump's staff:

""Why has your office so far refused to work with D.C. to conduct contact tracing based on the recent positive cases coming out of the White House?

Have you and your staff worked with the Centers for Disease Control or any other institution to contact trace from positive cases coming from the White House?

What is your contact tracing process and with whom is information from the contact tracing shared? Has this process changed given the recent uptick in positive cases amongst White House staff and the First Family?

Has anybody from the White House directed you not to conduct contact tracing?"
https://norton.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/norton-sends-letter-to-white-house-physician-seeking-answers-on-contact

DC car owners demand contact tracing for their damaged cars......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Ym-kk1tRw

vaxxus

Cia,

IFR estimates have nothing to do at all with the Santa Monica study? Why do you always mention this study? I didn't. Seems like you want to avoid discussing the fact that IFR was found to be far below in all studies in different countries.

These are hard facts and you ignore them.

The death number in Norway have nothing to do with what I said. It is a fact that 1 in 3000 people in Sweden died of coronavirus infection. Over 10% of the population had been infected, possibly far more. It's statistically impossible that this virus kills 1 in 25.

The idea that this virus kills 4% had been already debunked in April.

You are still stuck in the early days of the pandemic when not much was known and people were making all kinds of doomsday predictions that never materialized.

Carolyn M

I apologize for mis-typing the link in the comment which I posted at 9:16pm. The link should be: https://www.nbc4i.com/news/attorney-says-school-district-misapplied-law-in-arresting-woman-with-no-mask-at-football-game/

I hope this one works.

Carolyn M

I found a better account:

https://tennesseestar.com/2020/10/01/jack-windsor-of-the-ohio-star-discusses-his-national-story-about-mom-being-tased-over-not-wearing-mask/

Mask hysteria needs to end.

Carolyn M

Benedetta and Cia,

I think this is the woman to whom Benedetta was referring:

https://www.nbc4i.com/news/attorney-says-school-district-misapplied-law-in-arresting-woman-with-no-mask-at-football-gsme/

Please note: the woman stated that she had a medical reason to be exempt from wearing a mask. The mask mandate in Ohio allows medical exemptions.

She was also "socially distanced" from non-family members. She was tasered when she refused to put on a mask or leave.

I have also read that attorney Lin Wood has stated that he believes the women's rights were "egregiously violated".

This is just one of the places where mask hysteria can lead.

Benedetta

Does anyone know what kind of Encephalitis happens with a vaccine? Is it limbic? Autoimmune for sure but is in the limbic kind?

Cia: That stuff has been happening around the country for a long while now. They would not allow people on beaches for heaven sakes, with all the UV light tearing delicate genetic material of the viruses to pieces.

Angus Files

Your welcome Susan.The cracks are starting to show amongst the would be `experts` they just cant agree amongst themselves which of the lies are meant to be true..

Herd immunity 'critical' in long term as Edinburgh University expert slaps down Matt Hancock
The Health Secretary said the strategy doesn't work but Professor Mark Woolhouse has now told him "Herd immunity is the way this thing ends".
A Scots-based health expert says herd immunity will be critical in the long term to end the pandemic as he slapped down Westminster Health Secretary Matt Hancock who had earlier dismissed the concept.

Mark Woolhouse, professor of infectious disease epidemiology at the University of Edinburgh, was responding to comments by the Tory Health Secretary that it is "a flawed goal".

Professor Woolhouse said the concept should not be discounted although he admitted there was currently not enough exposure for it to work in the short term.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/herd-immunity-critical-long-term-22840612

Pharma For Prison

MMR RIP

Cia

Typo: Norway has had 15,730 total cases, 15% of what wild and crazy Sweden has had.

Vaxxus,

The Santa Monica study had researchers who got their test subjects by advertising on Facebook. People who thought they had had it, but couldn’t get an antibody test any other way. What would you think that would do to the results? Yes, it WAS hyped to the high heavens, California now close to herd immunity! I would say a seven year old would understand why it wasn’t accurate. So what was it, fraud or an astounding absence of even second-grade level intelligence? The video with the non-MDs who praised it was banned from the Internet. Not that that says a lot one way or the other.

vaxxus

"You probably recall the fraudulent Stanford antibody studies last spring."

IFR rates are based on different antibody measurements not a single study.

Much lower IFR rates aren't controversial this is a mainstream view.

Not sure why you want to argue that we need to follow CFR when everyone says IFR that are much lower is what counts?

Covid-19 is a serious problem but it is not as deadly as the CFR rates indicate. In Sweden where there was extensive spread of the virus, no masks, not too much social distancing there was maybe one coronavirus death in 3000 people. Hospitals are currently empty suggesting there must be some kind of immunity in the population.

How can you explain that if the CFR were be really 1 in 25?

In a population that would be 400000 people dead if everyone is infected.

Cia

Angus,

Not according to the substantiated charts at Worldometers.info. I just looked to get today’s most recent statistics.

Sweden: total deaths: 5,899. Deaths per million: 583. Total cases: 100,654. Deaths today: 6. New cases yesterday (cases today not posted yet): 570.

Now, with 6,000 deaths, are they now doing way better than their neighboring Scandinavian countries, which locked down?

Norway: total deaths: 277. Deaths per million: 51. Total cases: 115,730. Deaths today: 1. New cases today: 115.

Denmark: total deaths: 674. Deaths per million: 116. Total cases: 33,101. Deaths today: 3. New cases today: 389.

Finland: total deaths: 346. Deaths per million: 62. Total cases: 12,499. Deaths today: 0. New cases today: 287.

So by what measure is Sweden, which negligently allowed almost 6,000 of its citizens to die, doing tons better than countries comparable in everything but compassion and responsibility? It has had between ten and twenty times more deaths. Between ten and twenty times higher deaths per million. Few deaths today, but several more cases than its neighbors. Twice to five times more new cases today than its neighbors. I would say its locked-down neighbors continue to be way ahead by every parameter, while protecting their citizens.

Cait

Cia, your idea of benchmarks sounds eminently reasonable. It is similar what we are doing here in Quebec, Canada. We have been experiencing a second wave following the easing of restrictions in the summer and the opening of schools in September. Right now my region near Montreal is classified as zone red, which means the current restrictions are fairly extreme. But most people are compliant, and don't consider wearing a mask or limiting our social interactions for a limited period of time to be an assault on our freedom.

I am baffled by many of the other comments on this article. Asking the Jewish community to respect the same rules and constraints as the rest of society is surely a far cry from the Holocaust. Being required to wear a mask in public is hardly equivalent to forced vaccination. And taking reasonable precautions to protect ourselves and others is not fear-mongering — it's just common sense.

susan welch

Angus, thanks for that great article re Sweden.

Emmaphiladelphia

@CIA
"You probably recall the fraudulent Stanford antibody studies last spring."

Quit lying. The article uses the word "hyped" not "fraudulent". Quite a difference. The article is behind a paywall. Please link to the actual research and I'll form my own opinion.

Emmaphiladelphia

@ CIA

"and was responsible for the deaths from Covid of his parents-in-law"
You must have relatives in the vaccine industry. You speak their lies like a pro.

"well, there’s nothing I can say to you."
Thank you for not responding. Good day!

Angus Files

It is becoming increasingly evident that Sweden not only got it right, but that the human cost of the UK’s onerous Covid-19 policies will be significantly worse than Covid-19 ever would have been.

Covid-19 has now virtually disappeared in Sweden. The country had among the worst rates of Covid-19 fatalities in the world in April. Now, it’s among the lowest, having fallen over 99 per cent, and with an average of just one death per day over the past week.

What has Sweden done to achieve this? Almost nothing. And that’s the point.


https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2020/09/hunter-dubose-why-sweden-is-leading-the-way-out-of-the-pandemic.html

Pharmaa For Prison

MMR RIP

Cia

Vaxxus,

You probably recall the fraudulent Stanford antibody studies last spring.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/23/coronavirus-antibody-studies-california-stanford

You always have to think carefully about whether antibody studies have been carried out in a way to give valid, representative results. And then what do you have? We have been conditioned to believe that antibodies to a disease are permanent, like to measles, but that doesn’t seem to be the case for Covid. So even if you spend millions to establish that x number had antibodies, or t-cell presence, on x date, what have you got? They do not help you achieve permanent herd immunity. They help you say, Yes, while SYMPTOMATIC Covid des indeed mean that you have an overall 4% risk of dying, if you cut the large number who had it but never knew it, your risk of dying is one in a thousand, or 10,000, or 100,000, depending on your definitions. What happens if you include those who undergo a cycle of a hundred cultures and it turns out that every person in the world has at least one molecule of Covid in our bodies, and is positive? That drops to the fatality rate to one in a hundred thousand (or whatever).

But most people think the most relevant knowledge is how likely it is that someone die once they start coughing. It was much higher in the spring, but now it’s one in twenty-five symptomatic cases, well worth preventing.

Emmadelphia,

If you were not moved by the account of the man who didn’t take Covid seriously, got it, gave it to fourteen of his family members, and was responsible for the deaths from Covid of his parents-in-law, whom he had invited over in June, well, there’s nothing I can say to you.

Benedetta,

In most places you don’t have to wear a mask when outside or when doing strenuous exercise or work. Or if you have a respiratory or mental impairment. The danger lies in crowds and confined indoor spaces, and there it’s important that everyone capable of doing so without harm to themselves, wear masks.

I like and support the police. Normally the police give you an instruction and a warning, and if you disregard it, they might arrest you. But that’s fair. The rule of law. Religious services early on were a prime vector of Covid transmission, crowds, singing, reciting prayers, etc. It’s wise to take measures to prevent this. Masks, social distancing, limitation on the number permitted in a shared space. I put up a link to an article the other day with statements from a number of different religious venues here: all wanted to do their part in protecting the public.

The idea I presented about benchmarks for tightening and loosening measures, tied to number of Covid hospital admissions that day, should satisfy most people. If Covid reaches the point of being mild, like a cold, hospital admissions would plummet, and no measures would be necessary. All automatic, nothing personal. Right now cases are surging in many places in the world. I’d say first of all that that shows that large numbers have not achieved immunity. It doesn’t necessarily mean that large numbers will be hospitalized or die, but it might.

greyone

John
thanks for posting the review.

saw this case study that resolved with ivig, dont know the patients age.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32984564/

odd how many vaccine injury symptoms seem to coincide with the covid syndrome.
i recall Dr Lee (at Autism One lecture?) advising those who get the hpv vax to avoid vigorous exercise for a period of time because of heart problems that could result.
raises many questions.

Benedetta

Time to look inside ourselves and decide who we are.

Is it alright with us when a police officer walks up, and arrest someone in a worship service that is singing and worshiping (OUTSIDE) with out a mask. .

Is it alright that a police officer arrest some one that is NOT sick in a worship service inside? Wearing or not wearing a mask?

Is it alright - do you cheer when a police officer manhandles and arrest a well woman sitting in a foot ball out door bleachers for not wearing a mask.

Are you a bizzy body that appoints yourself as some kind authority and tells a complete stranger that they need to put that mask back on between bites of food?

Are you the little creep that calls the police because your neighbor is walking their dog, outside with no mask.

Are you the judgmental person that has some false security in mask because of statistics; but don't know where they came from, how they were collected, and the agenda of the folks that collected them. Keep in mind that college/university courses in statistics full name is usually ( statics and ethic class) wonder why?

Are you the person that is watching some one not wear a mask as you pull, and tug at yours? For heaven sakes.

Emmaphiladelphia

""Since even the apparently healthy can be infected with Covid and infect others with it, at times like this EVERYONE has to act as though everyone he encounters outside his household group is infected, including himself."

Not true.
You are fear mongering.
Is this your job?

My younger son who lives with us is an "essential worker" and has worked every day continually around the public, without and with a mask. I am at the lower end of the higher risk age group. I live normally and not in fear. We even went to a family outdoor wedding. There were bout 100 guests- no masks. It was WONDERFUL! I am still alive and well. Even if I got sick and died, I would not regret it. My life is in God's hands. I do not fear this cold virus. Heaven is incomparable to anything a Bill Gates utopia can dish out.

Cia

Interesting article by Mike Adams about CFR and IFR from April. He mainly talks about speculated flu IFR, so it’s not perfect for the discussion of Covid, but much of the reasoning stands. Especially his discussion of why those who want to deny the seriousness of Covid like to dilute its seriousness with speculated IFR.

https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-04-24-case-fatality-rate-cfr-is-not-infection-fatality-rate-ifr-coronavirus.html

John Stone

Valuable review of the threat of Post-Covid Syndrome by Doshi & Tanveer, BMJ RR today:-

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3365/rr-4

How clinically serious is SARS-CoV-2 infection for children and young adults?
Re: Covid-19: re-opening universities is high risk Gavin Yamey, Rochelle P Walensky. 370:doi 10.1136/bmj.m3365
In their editorial, Yamey and Walensky suggest that Covid-19 is a clinically serious disease for a substantial proportion of young adults. They write:

“A multistate US survey found that about a quarter of people with symptomatic covid-19 aged 18-34 years develop post-acute covid,[1] a potentially disabling illness that can cause severe complications.[2],[3] One regional US college football competition was cancelled after at least 15 healthy student players developed covid related myocarditis.[4]” (citations have been renumbered)

We have reviewed the references cited and are concerned that the evidence appears less clear cut than described.

The cited multistate US survey,[1] which was led by the CDC, did indeed find that 26% of individuals aged 18-34 years reported not having “returned to their usual state of health 14-21 days after testing.” However, little additional detail is provided for this age group; the CDC’s report does not contain information regarding which exact symptoms persisted, nor the frequency and severity of those symptoms. We contacted the corresponding author of the study for these data, but he declined, citing an inability to share patient level datasets (personal correspondence with Mark Tenforde, Sep 16, 2020). Without these data, it is impossible to judge the nature and seriousness of the unresolved symptoms.

The editorial authors also suggest that post-acute Covid-19 is a “potentially disabling illness that can cause severe complications” within 18-34 year olds. However the two papers [2,3] referenced in support of this statement, which were about neurological complications and Covid-19 related new-onset diabetes, did not evaluate these severe complications within young adults.

Finally, although myocarditis can be a serious and potentially life threatening condition, the clinical significance of the link between Covid-19 and myocarditis is a subject of ongoing debate. Others have analyzed the report of US college football players that is cited in the editorial and argued that this finding may be an artifact of increased awareness and diagnostic sensitivity rather than a clinically significant finding. [5, 6] Notably, there was no control/reference group. Moreover, myocarditis after viral infections are not unique to Covid-19. Intense exercise, like those required of college athletes, can exacerbate inflammation that is present in the lungs and heart after a viral infection, which can consequently cause myocarditis. A definitive diagnosis of myocarditis also requires a heart biopsy, something that is rarely done in otherwise healthy college students, for obvious reasons. [5]

Taken together, the data suggest that a quarter of college aged students with symptomatic Covid-19 may have one or more symptoms that persist for a few weeks, but it is far from clear that this translates into a significant risk of severe Covid-19 complications.

There is room for a more optimistic interpretation of the data. The New York Times states that among more than 1,600 U.S. colleges, there have been “at least 130,000 cases and at least 70 deaths since the pandemic began. Most of the cases have been announced since students returned to campus for the fall term. Most of the deaths were reported in the spring and involved college employees, not students.” [7] Thus college “outbreaks” do not seem associated with increases in outbreaks of severe Covid-19.

Although there always exists a potential for severe Covid-19 risk in any population, based on the existing evidence, it is not clear that Covid-19 can be generalized as a clinically serious disease for young adults.

The editorial authors make several good points regarding taking a “harm reduction” approach. And it is not simply an approach, it is a legal requirement in many jurisdictions. Unfortunately, many universities have not stepped up to this challenge, and instead taken what is beginning to feel like the easy way out: fully virtual learning with no clear criteria for reopening. The unintended consequences of social isolation, remote learning, and remote teaching in college age students need to be measured and taken into account as well.

Sarah Tanveer
Peter Doshi
Department of Pharmaceutical Health Services Research
University of Maryland School of Pharmacy
Baltimore, Maryland, USA

References

[1] Tenforde MW, Kim SS, Lindsell CJ, et al., IVY Network Investigators, CDC COVID-19 Response Team, IVY Network Investigators. Symptom duration and risk factors for delayed return to usual health among outpatients with COVID-19 in a multistate health care systems network—United States, March–June 2020. MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep 2020;69:993-8. doi:10.15585/mmwr.mm6930e1 pmid:32730238 https://doi.org/10.15585/mmwr.mm6930e1

[2] Ellul MA, Benjamin L, Singh B, et al. Neurological associations of COVID-19. Lancet Neurol2020;19:767-83. doi:10.1016/S1474-4422(20)30221-0 pmid:32622375 https://doi.org/10.1016/S1474-4422(20)30221-0

[3] Rubino F, Amiel SA, Zimmet P, et al. New-onset diabetes in COVID-19. N Engl J Med2020;383:789-90. doi:10.1056/NEJMc2018688 pmid:32530585 https://doi.org/10.1056/NEJMc2018688

[4] Dodd D, Silverstein A. Big ten cancels college football season for fall 2020, hopes to play in spring 2021. CBS Sports 2020 Aug 11. https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-ten-cancels-college-...

[5] Koka, A., Don't Let Dubious Science Cancel College Football. Medscape. 2020 Aug 21. https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/936098

[6] Yong, E. The Core Lesson of the COVID-19 Heart Debate. The Atlantic 2020 Sept 21.
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/09/covid-19-heart-pandem...

[7] Tracking Covid at U.S. Colleges and Universities. The New York Times 2020 Sept 25. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-college-cases-tracker....

Competing interests: PD is an associate editor at The BMJ. PD and ST are both impacted by our university’s policies.

Cia

Emmadelphia,

Jesus never referred to quarantine. People then hadn’t conceptualized germs and contagious disease, though I believe many intuited them. What Jesus said was that only the sick needed a doctor, not the healthy. Which is different. Fine, only the sick need a doctor, but everyone should realize that both they and everyone around them might be contagious, and act to prevent disease spread. They thought that the leprous were unclean and had brought their condition upon themselves through sin. I don’t know how they reasoned about the obviously contagious part.

I just saw this story about a Texas man who had his partner, his stents and her parents over for dinner in June. All six of them got it, and they gave it to eight more family members. He and his parents in law were hospitalized, and his partner’s parents died. So now he will carry that guilt with him for the rest of his life.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/12/health/texas-coronavirus-skeptic-turned-survivor-guilt/index.html?utm_term=1602586497072fe1551dfd39c&utm_source=Coronavirus+Update+-+October+13%2C+2020&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=250417_1602586497073&bt_ee=WbHIq3iiD9VExWcz7lCit3VuHtLsRmU49%2BXrXrC66WpbHdSf4eIGx7Xw3gx6M9Th&bt_ts=1602586497073


Cases are exploding both in the US and Europe. Europe just passed the US, India, and Brazil for number of daily diagnosed cases.

Fauci, I’m sorry to say, just does what benefits himself. Years ago he said how effective chloroquine was in treating SARS, this go-round he dissed it, because dangerous, ineffective remdesivir was where the money was. And then only now, after nearly a year, saying that D3 works and he takes it himself.

John Stone

I suppose I find after decades of lies from the class of health officials of which Fauci is a leading member that what they don’t do at all routinely is tell the truth: they tell people what they want them to believe (commonly that diseases are more dangerous and vaccines are safer than they are) and the point is never truth (or only coincidentally), it is compliance: their job is to lie plausibly and make people afraid. It is also to work to discredit anyone who does try to tell the truth. I have no inkling that they have somehow suddenly become reliable. And we only have to consider what has happened to our children to decide what credence should be accorded to them.

vaxxus

Cia,

IFR was estimated using antibodies to determine previous infections.

While we don't know what the exact IFR is it's obviously far away from the CFR.

Your sources for covid-19 causing chronic fatigue symdrome in 61% are anonymous comments on the internet.

It's not a fact that coronavirus causes serious organ damage in a large percentage of those infected.

It was found that a large percentage of people who got a severe case with life threatening symptoms and/or spent time in the ICU had some long-term health problems or organ damage.

You can't generalize and apply these outcomes to the broad population.


Cia

Emmadelphia,

The presymptomatic and the asymptomatic can infect others with covid. This article is about the large percentage of children who are a- or presymptomatic but infect others.


https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/88319

The thing is that a huge number of people think they’re fine, are really infected, and infect others. Many eventually get symptoms, AFTER they’ve infected others, and many NEVER get symptoms, never realize they have Covid, but infect others. Jesus was against legalistic games. When the Philistines played gotcha when he healed on the Sabbath, he said that God supported healing the sick even on the Sabbath.

The point of the article I linked was that only two people at church infected many others, who in turn infected many others, and four people died from that one event. It was not that the two people had defied a rule when they went to church. There are literally millions of accounts out there. The infected person at that church choir practice in March who infected many others, several of whom died. Ditto for many birthday parties, funerals, weddings, children visiting their grandparents, on and on. In the vast majority of cases, the infected person didn’t mean to infect others, killing some of them. But the only way to avoid these good people’s inadvertently doing this is for everyone to take measures as though everyone were infectious. Even then it won’t be 100% successful, but it sure reduces infection rates and deaths. The US just hit 200,000 deaths a couple of weeks ago, but we’re already at something like 220,000 deaths now. A bad flu season might cause 40,000 deaths. So in just two weeks or so we’ve chalked up half of a bad flu season’s number of deaths. This isn’t over.

Since even the apparently healthy can be infected with Covid and infect others with it, at times like this EVERYONE has to act as though everyone he encounters outside his household group is infected, including himself. How could anyone ever be 100% sure that he is not infected? Who would have the hubris to run around doing what would infect others if he is not as healthy as he thinks? Do you think God is going to say OK, you THOUGHT you were healthy, you refused to mask or social distance, and, because of your pride (the number one cardinal sin), at a time when 99% of those around you were protecting their neighbor by observing measures, several people died? No problem! Come over and meet the people whose lives you cut short!

The road to h-ll is paved with good intentions.

Emmaphiladelphia

@CIA

In March, Arkansas was still trying to get PPE for medical workers. There were still many unknowns about the virus and how it spread. Sars Cov2 was more virulent in some places. There was no CDC church lockdown policy in place when the event you linked to took place. According to the CDC, patients zero were, "Two individuals attended the children's event while experiencing symptoms and are thought to be the primary sources of infection at the church." https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/498562-one-third-of-attendees-at-arkansas-church-events-contracted-covid-19-during https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/mar/22/covid-19-cases-in-arkansas-up-by-nearly-50/
The Bible calls for quarantine of the SICK. The two church members were already sick when they went to the church, ignoring Godly wisdom. I am sure they did not recognize their illness as the beginning of a case of Covid 19. They made a bad choice.
I sense that your post is rooted in fear. I will pray for you.
“There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.” 1 John 4:18

Cia

This is where I saw the comment by Nordic Jack, Taking your eyes off the ball, under the transcript etc of the Peak Prosperity presentation on Fauci from a couple of weeks ago. I just saw he said 76% of the “recovered” had chronic fatigue syndrome.

https://www.peakprosperity.com/fauci-places-politics-over-science-and-your-health/

Cia

Vaxxus,

So who has tested the entire population in a short time to find out how many are positive at that time? Whose definition of positive are you going to use? 40 cultures, the norm, even though those positive at 40 and not 30 or 25 are not sick from Covid nor will they get sick? That’s where you get your “false positives.” Who has simultaneously tested for antibodies to show past sickness and recovery? Who has also simultaneously tested for t-cell immunity and other possible kinds of cellular immunity? How do you figure out who WOULD have shown immunity had you tested them two, three, four months ago, but not now? How do you include those who died of Covid but are only seen in the excess mortality charts? Most experts say that it is very likely that immunity from any Covid challenge lasts only a few weeks or months. Max one or two years. We’ll see, no one can know at this time yet, but it means that it’s not worth going to the trouble of making everyone get it, then sink or swim. Instead, take D3 and zinc every day and hope for the best.

It is just a fact that Covid has, in a large percentage of cases, caused severe and probably permanent damage to virtually any organ of the body. Another fact that a large percentage still have ongoing severe symptoms even months after testing negative. Longhaulers syndrome. I don’t know what the exact percentages are, and I said as much. Mike Stevens said that in his experience, 10% of Covid patients have longhaulers’ syndrome. A lot of this syndrome is autoimmune. Chronic fatigue syndrome is relatively new, but can be caused by an autoimmune reaction to many viruses and vaccines. Covid is now one of them. I’ll look for a link to where I saw 61%. I interpret that just to mean a lot.

I object to minimizing the seriousness of this virus. It is very serious, not natural, and you should avoid getting it, if possible. I recognize we can’t be locked down forever, but I’d recommend a system of benchmarks. Obviously not an idea original to me, but I recommend it. At a certain number of hospitalizations per day, certain restrictions automatically go into effect. At another, much lower, number, the restrictions are loosened, and at another, are released altogether.

I think the use of IFR is only to try to say 210,000 dead in the US since Feb is nothing. Just a drop in the bucket if you will buy MY method of calculating the TRUE number of the Covid recovered. The only figure we can be sure of is the number tested and diagnosed with Covid.

vaxxus

cia,

Using a case fatality rate in this pandemic is meaningless since tests were only given to people who were sick enough to be at risk of serious complications.

It's not pointless to speculate about IFR, it's crucial to do so. Also we are not justspeculating we are relying on data.

You are using CFR to scare people because you want to modify their behaviour. Instead you should rely on truthful and accurate information. If the pandemic is a problem the numbers can speak for themselves and don't need to be distorted.

While we don't know for sure what the exact IFR is we have a certain range and it's definitely below 1% making it not an extremely deadly infection.

I do believe the Covid-19 is a problem serious enough that it requires our attention but following your posts I find your constant abuse of statistics not very helpful.

You are either intentionally providing misinformation in order to scare people into compliance or fear took control of you and affects your interpretation of available information.

And no 61% of people with covid don't develop chronic fatigue syndrome. Even for the far more severe SARS it risk was just half of that.

Please stop with that nonsense.

Tens of millions will die of famine because of lockdowns by the way far more than coronavirus could have killed.

We need to think clearly about the current situation and make the right decisions. Fear mongering can make things worse.

Cia

Bob,

This article from the Economist in June says that in the US deaths from Covid were in people much younger than in Europe, on average. In the US, less than half of deaths occurred in those over 80.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/06/24/when-covid-19-deaths-are-analysed-by-age-america-is-an-outlier

The US, like the world, now averages a 4% case fatality rate, which is extremely high, higher than for any contagious disease since the Spanish flu a hundred years ago. I don’t think we should try to dilute it by speculating on the infection fatality rate. Since we have made no attempt to test everyone, we don’t know how many get it and recover without ever knowing they had it, and since many believe that immunity doesn’t last long even if you recover from the natural disease, the only thing that matters is that if you get symptomatic Covid, the average death rate is 4%. Yes, it’s lower (never inconsequential) the younger and healthier you are, but have we ever reasoned about vaccine damage like that? Those who have a certain gene profile are very unlikely to have a disabling or fatal reaction to vaccines, so who cares about those who do?

Cia

Case in point, from March. 92 people attended a church service, two of them had symptomatic Covid.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6920e2.htm?s_cid=mm6920e2_w

A third of the attendees developed covid and three of them died. The attendees then gave Covid to over twenty others, and one of them died.

Was the joy in the free religious expression of the infected church attendees so great that it justified the deaths of four people? Who has the right to say Yes, it does, to hell with the suffering and death it causes others? Who has the right to say that this egregious selfishness with mortal stakes is pleasing to God?

Cia

Emmadelphia,

Leviticus establishes Jewish law as requiring that those with possibly leprous white sores show themselves to a priest who would decide if they had leprosy. If they did, they had to live alone or go to a leper colony where they could not infect others.

The passage you quote from the New Testament has Jesus healing ten lepers and sending them to a priest to be certified as healed. Only one, a reviled Samaritan, returned to praise God. What is your point? How many infected with Covid have been miraculously healed by Jesus?

I was under the impression that the point of the article was to say that all restrictions on Jews gathering for religious observances were in themselves anti-Semitic and totally to be condemned. Even though all other religions are acting under the exact same restrictions. Such as our church. The provisions of the Siracusa agreement from decades ago specifies that such restrictions are permissible when necessary for public health and when applied in the same way to all groups which meet the specifications. Jewish congregations here, like those of all other religions, have expressed agreement and willingness to comply with these restrictions, because most people are unwilling to be responsible for disabling or killing others.

Some have said that the rules in NYC are as m-rderous as Holocaust massacres. How so? Was anyone shot d-ad on either side? Anyone shoved into vehicles transporting them to a concentration camp? Do maskless crowds transmit coronavirus? Is the ordinance reasonable to prevent serious disease?

Emmaphiladelphia

@CIA

Evidently you have not read Luke 17:11-19.
https://ebible.com/kjv/section/1884

Cia

Leviticus 13:46: lepers must live alone (or in a colony with other lepers). G-d did not think that they should be allowed to continue their normal lives among other people, because everyone understood that contact with a leper often infected others with it, and the health of the community was more important than the happiness of the leper.

Greyone,

The reference to the high death rates in Philadelphia (who doesn’t love a parade? Regardless of how many die as a result?) and low death rates in St. Louis because of the mayor’s stringent measures was at the time of the Spanish flu a hundred years ago. The point was that those who choose to eat, drink, and be merry in close contact with unmasked others often bring down suffering and death on themselves, but on many others along a long line of infection spread. To me it’s surprising that this is even an issue. How many would go to a great party if they knew how likely it was that it would result in the illness of ten people and the death of three? How many would say Who cares, as long as I have fun?Remember the choir rehearsal last March? Even taking some measures, about twenty got Covid and three died of it. Or New Orleans at Mardi Gras. Why are people’s memories so short?

greyone

cia
higher death rates in Philadelphia than St Louis (which are, per CDC and WHO globally concentrated in much older adults ) are more likely due to policies that incentivized or muscled nursing homes to admit coronavirus patients.

Cia

Benedetta,

You have to reason about it. Masks stop germs from coming out or going in. We started wearing masks in early March, long before any ordinance.

We would have tried to protect Jews if we had lived in Germany in the ‘30s, because that would be the moral thing to do. Morality trumps Caesar’s law. But in this case morality demands being your brother’s keeper as well as your own. In the Spanish flu, the mayor of Philadelphia was lax, permitting big parades, while the mayor of St. Louis was much stricter. Philadelphia had a high death toll as a result, while in St. Louis it was much lower. The thousands who were able to remain alive as a result were happy, despite the temporary measures. In Biblical times, leper’s were enclosed in special colonies to prevent the contagion of others, and their happiness was irrelevant.

Vaccinations here have very rarely been forced. Everyone has always known that the choice was theirs, and most have known that they should research it. Even in 2000 I said I didn’t want C to be given the hep B vaccine (they did anyway, but out of ignorance of my direction), I said no to the MMR and varicella Vaccine, and in 2005 sought out a stand-alone tetanus vaccine. The pediatricians were unhappy with my choices, but who gives a damn?

Benedetta

Also Cia; There are many passages in the Bible that says to not do, Or to do for health. Then there are passages in the Bible that indicate that "LIFE" and maintaining it is very important. I come away with an understanding that an individual (not the herd) when faced with a decision has to what ever tough decisions to save their life.

Benedetta

Cia;
The same arguments you use in saying we should wear mask, are the very same arguments that the educational systems and doctors used to get me to vaccinate my kids' brains out.

Protect others, and tell others what their religion means to them. "Does any religion teach that it’s all right to carry out an action which will damage or kill many, or even one, when such injury is easy to avoid and the means utilized and promoted by most people in the world?" Get that vaccine.

Sorry Cia, some times things just needs to pointed out and I did not mean to be up in your face about it. I am really sorry.

Cia

Bob,

It won’t be forever, but at this time I think all of us should take measures to avoid transmitting Covid. Wearing masks doesn’t cause lung, liver, kidney failure, etc. We’ve been wearing them every time we go out since the beginning of March, a couple of weeks before the lockdown started. My daughter remembers to put one on when she goes out to her pre-employment program or, today, with a Burrell employee for a hike in the woods. I often forget to remind her, I say Hat, sunglasses, water, camera, but I usually forget to say Mask, but she remembers. We got Crayola crayon masks in five different colors and five or six really cute cat masks from Etsy. We got N-95 masks from China at the end of February. I have a thin blue line mask with the American flag. We love them and enjoy putting them on to express our personality. We can breathe and talk just fine. I have three Gorsuch masks with a pocket: I cut panels from a Filtrete furnace filter to put in the pockets to improve virus filtering. I’ve complimented several people on their attractive masks and they tell me what relative is sewing them by the dozen. I talked to an Incian woman the other day who said her sister was making them for her and other relatives and for medical staff. She said she thinks Covid deaths are relatively few in India because every family makes kadha herbal tea with turmeric, ashwagandha, tulsi, ginger, and black pepper every day, and the herbs are effective at prevention.

When we go to the supermarket, every single person is wearing a mask. Also at Mass. Petco, Petsmart. A sign on the door says you have to wear one. Same at Walmart. Everything else is on Zoom. The group Best Buddies and Services for Independent Living have creative meetings, game nights, videos, getting to know you exchanges. C. enjoys going to the reclining chair in the living room and participating in her own groups, and Zoom has a lot to be said for it, I wouldn’t be able to take her to meetings at night. I’m going to try taking her to Water Aerobics at the (still expensive) pool at a public gym this Tuesday, but as we did this summer, she will wear a mask in the pool even though it’s not required. It hasn’t bothered her at all, and I feel better when I know she’s protected, which protects me and others.

This is a special time, horrific for the hundreds of thousands who have gotten severe cases or died. But the memory of the masks and of Zoom calls will be precious to us in the future, not only colorful, but meaningful, as our answer to What did you do in the war?

Kathy Sincere

This German neurologist nails it - as in puts a nail in the coffin of mask-wearing.

https://vaccineimpact.com/2020/neurologist-covid-19-masks-are-a-crime-against-humanity-and-child-abuse/

Emmaphiladelphia

I also watched the excellent OSHA experts. Their opinion is what counts! Actually, about a month ago, I had already researched what they were saying. I had come upon a random post by someone who said they had worked for OSHA and they were saying the same thing. Go to the website, and the truth about the masks is all there. I have never worn a mask around the house or outside. Our state has no mask mandate. I decided, after reading the OSHA standards for surgical masks, the best science (if you are compelled to wear them) is to cover your mouth and not your nose. Then, inhale through your nose and exhale by mouth into the mask. Surgical masks provide no protection to the wearer for inhaling, as it assumes a sterile atmosphere. The filtering is only for outgoing air. This is the ONLY SLIGHT benefit of wearing a mask indoors. Inhaling through the uncovered nose allows proper oxygenation for the body. A mask does very little to protect you. Your true protection is your immune system. I have been taking vitamins C and D3 daily since December. I walk daily-no mask. At the beginning of the outbreak in February, I had already bulked up on groceries and began cooking 3 meals a day from scratch. I didn't have to go back to Costco for about 4 weeks. Even then, they had not instituted their mask requirement. I get out more frequently now. Many places don't require a mask, and I don't wear one. So far so good.

Cia

I thought I should put up a source for my comment, not up yet, about the Southern Hemisphere’s inadvertently crushing its flu season this summer because mask usage prevents all respiratory diseases, not just Covid. This is one, but if you search for “Southern Hemisphere skips fly season,” there have been dozens of articles published about it.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/09/12/the-southern-hemisphere-skipped-flu-season-in-2020

Bob Moffit

@ Cia

"We’re not out of the woods by any means."

No one should diminish the covid virus .. but … I believe locking down the world .. mandating masks for all without any concerns for the KNOWN health dangers prolonged mask wearing has on INDIVIDUALS .. some appear to be as similar as those "severe symptoms" you listed for covid.

We cannot .. nor should we … live our lives governed by public health officials and politicians who have set arbitrarily distinguished protocols .. who is "necessary" … who is "not" .. how many can enter a church .. how many can enter a gambling casino .. on and on. NOTHING ABOUT OUR RESPONSE TO COVID IS WITHOUT GREAT SCIENTIFIC UNCERTAINTY … NOTHING … FROM MASKS TO HYDROCHOLOQINE .. AND THE SOON TO ARRIVE AT WARPED SPEED VACCINE.

I have a granddaughter attending a major university as a freshman and her life on campus reminds me of my experience as a US Army "recruit" attending basic training .. in fact as a recruit I had more personal freedom than she does as she is more or less restricted to what is comparable to being under house arrest. I cannot imagine how a child entering kindergarten can not be affected by everyone wearing masks … separated by plastic shields .. socially distanced at all times .. including recess where normal playing of childhood games is discouraged. Hugging a playmate a big NO.

So … I will ask you … WHEN DOES THE PANDEMIC END???? I suspect Covid is merely the FIRST PANDEMIC that future generations are being prepared to face … in other words … FEAR OF FUTURE PANDEMICS WILL LIKELY ALTER AND CHANGE ACCEPTED HUMAN BEHAVIOR FOR GENERATIONS TO COME … facial masks will become our NEW NORMAL.

Tim Lundeen

Two excellent articles from Josh Mitteldorf:

"Here are ten messages that are essential pieces of the standard COVID narrative, but which are unfounded in actual science, and the promised rebuttals to each.

“The origin of the SARS-CoV-2 virus was one of many random events in nature in which a virus jumps from one species to another.”
“Chloroquine kills patients and is too dangerous to use against COVID”
“The Ferguson model warned us of impending danger in time to take action and dodge a bullet.”
“American deaths from COVID: 200,000 and counting”
“Masks and social distancing are keeping the virus in check in our communities”
“New cases of COVID are expanding now in a dangerous Second Wave”
“Dr Fauci and the CDC are guiding our response to COVID according to the same principles of epidemic management that have protected public health in the past.”
“Asymptomatic carriers are an important vector of disease transmission, which must be isolated if we are to stop the spread of COVID”
“The lower death rates now compared to April are due to protective measures such as social distancing, mask-wearing, and limited travel.”
“With enough resources, pharmaceutical scientists can develop a vaccine in a matter of months, and provide reasonable assurance that it is safe.”

"The story that we are being told about an ultra-lethal virus that “jumped to humans” and the scientific community converging on a response proportional to the threat—this story is unraveling, as more and more doctors and public health professionals are adding their voices to a global movement to restore sanity and integrity in the pandemic response."

https://joshmitteldorf.scienceblog.com/2020/10/06/ten-elements-of-the-false-covid-narrative-first-5

https://joshmitteldorf.scienceblog.com/2020/10/10/ten-elements-of-the-false-covid-narrative-last-5

Cia

Does any religion teach that it’s all right to carry out an action which will damage or kill many, or even one, when such injury is easy to avoid and the means utilized and promoted by most people in the world? Some years ago there were some parents who refused to let their children be treated with antibiotics, no matter how severe and treatable a bacterial infection they had. It was a controversy: did these parents’ religious views mean that they could let innocent children die who could be easily saved? Most thought not. In the US, it’s against the law to disturb your neighbor by making too much noise. Is requiring you to wear a mask in public so you don’t infect your neighbor with a dangerous disease any different? Vaccines, as most Americans realize now, are different, being substantively dangerous, often disabling, even fatal, in themselves.

I saw charts this morning which showed that several countries in the Southern Hemisphere completely crushed what would normally have been their winter flu season these past few months. Year after year up until now, high spikes of flu cases and deaths. This summer (winter for them) it was baselined. The reason? Nearly everyone wore masks, which went far to prevent both seasonal flu and COVID. Masks work. How could they not?

Grace Green

The edition of The Highwire which Bayareamom has linked to also contained an interview with a Rabbi from the same community, I think his name was Rabbi David Smith. He explained his understanding of why mask wearing is contrary to the Torah, which I found extremely convincing, as it echoed my own instinctive feelings. We must remember that all religions are different, and we in the UK as well as the USA are supposed to have freedom of religious belief and practice. No exceptions.

Cia

Bob,

We’re not out of the woods by any means. I just looked at Worldometers charts. Yesterday 910 Americans died of Covid, the number who were dying of it in mid-July days before the second spike. At this time it looks like case growth is moving toward a third spike.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Covid continues to be a very bad thing to get. Death rates have fallen, but so many more people are getting it that it works out to about the same. Mike Stevens said that 10% of Covid patients develop longhaulers syndrome, with severe symptoms for at least many months. Other sources say that 61% develop chronic fatigue syndrome from Covid.
Many thousands have sustained severe or fatal damage to kidneys, liver, GI tract, nervous system, immune system, even Covid toes, in addition to the lungs.

I recognize that we have to rebuild economies and feed the hungry. But we need to look honestly at the seriousness of the disease when trying to develop a recovery plan, and continue to try to avoid transmitting the disease, primarily through mask usage.

Bayareamom

@Tim Lundeen,

Thanks so much for that positive remark. I really hope this one particular Highwire segment goes viral. It was jam packed with awesome information -- information every person on this planet, as far as I'm concerned, needs to understand, most especially about the OSHA standards regarding the use of face masks, not only with reference to the Covid issue, but in the work environment.

And hats off to these two OSHA whistleblowers!

Great job!

Cia

I just found this. It’s from March, but the important ideas remain the same. The Temple Beth Shalom, where I have taken my daughter as part of her religious education, said that it had cancellled the Seder, was mailing out religious education packets, seeking to protect the elderly and other vulnerable populations, and was finding it an interesting challenge to serve G-d and Man during a pandemic. The article, on many religious groups, says that the Islamic Center had not responded, but I get its newsletter, and it had cancellled many of its normal activities, saying that it takes very seriously its obligation to safeguard life and respect local ordinances.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.columbiamissourian.com/news/covid19/places-of-worship-adapt-services-amid-covid-19-restrictions/article_5637391a-686b-11ea-907f-a7741fe6301d.amp.html

greyone

@bayareamom
the interview you posted provided such uniquely focused and educated points to consider regarding blanket masking orders by bureaucrats.
Thanks, like you said, it's a must see.

Laura Hayes

Bayareamom,

Just watched from the 52:00 minute mark to the 1:32:00 mark...those 2 women are excellent and inspiring! A definite must-watch! Here is the link again for those who have yet to tune in:

https://thehighwire.com/watch/

Thanks so much for posting, Bayareamom :)

Tim Lundeen

@bayareamom -- thanks for posting that Highwire interview! I can't stand watching videos and I couldn't turn it off. Awesome!

Long term link is https://thehighwire.com/videos/the-covid-defection-begins/ at 52 minutes

Angus Files

Rabbi Hillel Handler is 100% right the removal of rights for Jews resulted in the holocaust .Just after world war one stories were spread that the Jews were not friends to Germany and with fake science of an inferior race .Today people who do not wear masks are seen as virus spreaders with no sound scientific data provided.Worse is, nobody seems to have taken much notice of history and its just about to repeat itself.Thank you Rabbi Hillel Handler for speaking up when everyone who should be speaking up remains silent.

"At first, the Holocaust was not characterized by violence, but by slow oppression and a narrowing of rights. Jews gradually lost the right to travel freely, to operate their businesses, to hold public office, and so on. The violence of the Holocaust began with mob violence that consisted, to a large extent, of ordinary Germans attacking Jewish citizens. Perhaps it can be said that the reason the Holocaust started was because these “average” people allowed themselves to be swayed and baited -- only after this was the Nazi Party able to institutionalize violence against Jews."


Pharma For Prison

MMR RIP

Emmaphiladelphia

I support Rabbi Hillel Handler's stance. We should heed his warning. The Torah describes how a community should handle communicable disease. Quarantine is for the SICK not the healthy. Is this the same community whose doctor has been successfully treating his patients with Hydroxychloraquine with 100% recovery and NO hospitalizations?

Bayareamom

https://thehighwire.com/watch/

I hope ALL who read and post here will view this video, at least starting at the 52 min. mark where the interview of the two women who work with OSHA discuss the face mask issue.

I have been watching all of Del Bigtree's interviews, but the most impressive, to me, as to all the interviews he has done re Covid, this one stands out as possibly the most important...imho.

These two women train physicians/nurses and other healthcare providers how to wear their PPEs, which includes face masks.

Watch and hear what they have to say about the face mask issue re COVID.

A MUST see...

Cia

I am very supportive of Jewish religious and public life, but at the same time supportive of that of everyone else. Masks are not an onerous requirement. The Catholic Church we attend reopened at the beginning of May with mask and spacing requirements: for a few months we had to sign up ahead of time and there was a limit on attendance. We still have to arrive early to get a seat because we have to leave four seats empty next to us, and there’s a mask requirement. No big deal. It should be the same for the Jewish community. I just saw a video of Jews in NYC celebrating Sukkot in the street, a large crowd, and those I saw were not wearing masks. Sirens were blaring, police were attempting crowd control but ultimately had to block the street. Obviously Jews should not be subjected to rules and laws which are different for them, but that is not the case here, I don’t think, anyway, but it just went through my mind that lawless crowds have been everywhere the past few months. Lawless being the key word. But still, laws limiting the size of gathered groups and requiring masks protect everyone. Desirable. Covid continues to kill many more than flu. A new German study just showed that herd immunity may not be possible since immunity from either disease or, probably, the vaccine, doesn’t seem to last long. Does it last longer than a year? How would we know? It also found that isolating and protecting the most vulnerable was unrealistic.

Bob Moffit

"He continued saying that last winter officials reported on the COVID deaths, now, with fewer people dying, they talk about people testing positive."

Exactly … the survival rate of covid is now comparable .. and in some instances … even better than annual flu deaths … it should surprise no one the media and government public health bureaucrats now focus entirely on the growing numbers of POSITIVE TESTS … mostly in people who are asymptomatic .. most didn't even know they tested positive.

Obviously .. we have developed therapeutic treatments for covid that are proving extremely effective in CURING COVID … no longer requiring people to be put on ventilators which in retrospect were probably more problem than solution.

The diminishing COVID DEATHS should be leading all government public health statements to people but .. not surprisingly the opposite is true … positive tests now are the "science" that governors are using to continue LOCK DOWNS …

THIS GOVERNMENT PUBLIC HEALTH TYRANNY MUST END NOW ….

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