36 Deaths Isn't Enough to Stop Flu Vax Program in S. Korea
Hey, Measles. Where’d You Go?

Naples Erupts Over Another Looming Lockdown

BastaL Italia s ‘e’ desta. Italy has awakened.

Non sai parlare italiano? Non preoccuparti. Not able to speak Italian? Don't worry.

The tone of this video from Naples will be perfectly clear.  The very word first word you hear, is the only word you need to hear - BASTA! Enough.  We know Americans can protest and even riot - we've seen plenty of it all summer. But will we have the Italian coraggio, if forced to shut down again?

Thank you to Alina A for sending the video and this report:

This video is taken on the streets of Napoli , Italy.
It is a reaction to an official communication from the governor of Campania ( the region of which Naples is the capital) , De Luca. He states that the situation is unsustainable and before it is too late he wants to lock down completely the region for 30/ 40 days. In his public statements De Luca keeps on spreading fear and says that he will request the total lockdown to be extended to the whole of Italy. The demonstration is a peaceful gathering of an enormous number of Neapolitans and people from the region of Campania , coming together saying“ Basta! Enough! We know you are lying. intensive cares units in hospitals are empty! We know it s flu season. ! We are not confused any longer! “Of course the charge of the police in riot gear transforms it all and all takes an uglier turn.


 




Comments

Cia

My third comment was just eaten. Are you having problems?

Cia

I just read this, ideas for helping the UK recover. https://theconversation.com/four-ways-to-rescue-the-economy-from-the-pandemic-148690?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20for%20October%2026%202020%20-%201768517144&utm_content=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20for%20October%2026%202020%20-%201768517144+CID_5368fb1fda3b83a199327f27ccb9da23&utm_source=campaign_monitor_uk&utm_term=Four%20ways%20to%20rescue%20the%20economy%20from%20the%20pandemic

.And I read that Ireland was going into a six-week lockdown. I think many countries will and it’s a good idea, if everyone takes it seriously. That’s how New Zealand did it. It said that a lot of the success of Germany and Finland was because they were able to implement a good test-track-isolate program. That’s something everyone should do.

John Stone

Jim

I think the waters have been deliberately muddied and I know several senior scientists and doctors (personally) who still believe that this is an important approach. Of course, how are we are tell but the intervention of WHO, Fauci, certain departments with vested interest in Oxford are infamous. We know they cheated and so even if they are right it is very hard to sort out now, however many studies there are supporting their view. I have spent a quarter of a century watching the daily manufacture of fake data.

Another disgusting problem is discouraging people from taking Vitamin D, C etc. Even Fauci says he takes them but the official message is that you can take them but not in sufficient measures to make any difference. When I last counted there were over 150 letters in BMJ Rapid Responses screaming at our governments to take action over Vitamin D since March. If - as is well established - most people in northern climes have major deficiencies of Vitamin D why only prescribe tiny doses. These are genocidal policies of neglect.

Science is pure.

These are some encouraging figures which show that during the spring the number of prescriptions filled for Hydroxychloroquine were approximately half the number of confirmed C19 cases. Since the half life is so long it is likely that only one prescription was filled per patient, so approximately half of the patients have been treated by their doctors in spite of the likes of Tony Fauci:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6935a4.htm#T1_down

Jim Thompson

Re: retraction from Lancet

Yes it was retracted. Thank you for pointing that out.

https://www.the-scientist.com/features/the-surgisphere-scandal-what-went-wrong--67955

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/02/health/coronavirus-study.html

Another study has since been accepted and published.

“RESULTS
The enrollment of patients in the hydroxychloroquine group was closed on June 5, 2020, after an interim analysis determined that there was a lack of efficacy. Death within 28 days occurred in 421 patients (27.0%) in the hydroxychloroquine group and in 790 (25.0%) in the usual-care group (rate ratio, 1.09; 95% confidence interval [CI], 0.97 to 1.23; P=0.15). Consistent results were seen in all prespecified subgroups of patients. The results suggest that patients in the hydroxychloroquine group were less likely to be discharged from the hospital alive within 28 days than those in the usual-care group (59.6% vs. 62.9%; rate ratio, 0.90; 95% CI, 0.83 to 0.98). Among the patients who were not undergoing mechanical ventilation at baseline, those in the hydroxychloroquine group had a higher frequency of invasive mechanical ventilation or death (30.7%vs. 26.9%; risk ratio, 1.14; 95% CI, 1.03 to 1.27). There was a small numerical excess of cardiac deaths (0.4 percentage points) but no difference in the incidence of new major cardiac arrhythmia among the patients who received hydroxychloroquine.”

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2022926?query=featured_home

https://www.nejm.org/doi/suppl/10.1056/NEJMoa2022926/suppl_file/nejmoa2022926_appendix.pdf

John Stone

And now Catania

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFrkAubuXT4

John Stone

Heneghan & Jefferson (Spectator) 10 worst data errors (in the UK)

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/The-ten-worst-Covid-data-failures

Throughout the pandemic, the government and its scientific advisers have made constant predictions, projections and illustrations regarding the behaviour of Covid-19. Their figures are never revisited as the Covid narrative unfolds, which means we are not given an idea of the error margin. A look back at the figures issued shows that the track record, eventually validated against the facts, is abysmal. This is important because major decisions continue to be taken on the strength of such data. There have been several noteworthy failings so far.

1) Overstating of the number of people who are going to die

This starts with the now-infamous Imperial College London (ICL) ‘Report 9
’ that modelled 500,000 deaths if no action was taken at all, and 250,000 deaths if restrictions were not tightened. This set the train of lockdown restrictions in motion. Some argue that Imperial’s modelling may have come true had it not been for lockdown. But this does not explain Sweden. Academics there
said
its assumptions would mean 85,000 deaths if Sweden did not lock down. It did not – and deaths are just under 6,000.

2) Leaked SAGE papers

Next came a print paper written by SAGE members to support a two-week ‘circuit breaker’, leaked
to the press. The reports were striking.


‘With no social distancing measures in place from now until January, the virus could potentially spiral out of control and kill 217,000 people, hospitalise 316,000 and infect 20.7 million. But with a strict two-week lockdown the number of deaths could be reduced by 100,000, admissions by 139,000 and infections by 6 million.’
Understandably, this made headlines. But when the lead author was interviewed by the BBC, he said that he wished he 'hadn't put these numbers in the study' because it was an extreme scenario only included 'for illustration'.

3) Miscategorisation of ‘Covid death’

Under the original system, someone run over by a bus would be counted as a ‘Covid death’ if he or she had tested positive for Covid but later recovered. When this anomaly was pointed out by the Oxford Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine, it turned out even the Health Secretary was unaware what the Covid death data referred to. Heordered an immediate inquiry. This illustrates how poor-quality data from Public Health England was misleading the government itself. A new system was eventually set up: counting deaths within 28 days of a positive Covid-19 test. This removed 4,149 deaths from the 15 July death count.

4) Overstating the effect of lockdown on reducing virus transmission

On 17 March Patrick Vallance, the Chief Scientific Adviser, stated that keeping the coronavirus death toll in the UK to less than 20,000 would be ‘a good outcome’ – yet on 16 July he had to admit the UK’s coronavirus outcome had ‘not been good’. After lockdown, a range of 7,000 to 20,000 deaths was given by Professor Neil Ferguson of Imperial College London. UK Covid deaths are now approaching 45,000.

5) Exaggerating Covid’s impact on hospitals

A leaked NHS report written in April warned that the UK would need 25,000 hospital beds to treat Covid patients ‘well into July’. However, on 24 July the daily count of confirmed Covid-19 patients in hospital was 928 in England and 1,356 across the UK, or just 5 per cent of the prediction.

6) Exaggerated fears about lifting lockdown

Imperial’s ‘Report 20’ on 4 May, contains a prediction of tens of thousands of deaths in Italy within three weeks of reopening. Yet by 30 June, just 23 daily deaths had been reported (lockdown officially ended on 4 May and internal travel restrictions on 3 June). On 29 May, SAGE advisors stated that ‘Covid-19 was spreading too fast to lift lockdown in England’. The mobility index (based on the request for map indications from the web) in June was around 20 per cent over the norm for the month for the UK, yet cases continued to decline to a low of 624 on 30 June.

7) The Vallance graph

On 21 September, Sir Patrick Vallance held a press conference where he sought to raise public support for further restrictions. The only graph he showed was one where cases doubled every seven days. This time, at least, the ‘scenario’ could be measured against reality. The Vallance chart showed infections hitting 50,000 cases a day by 13 October without action. His graph did not lead to any change in policy and when this day arrived, the moving average was 16,228.

8) The Excel spreadsheet blunder

This was blamed on a Covid testing glitch that led to 16,000 missed cases and up to 50,000 untraced contacts who should otherwise have been self-isolating. Added to this are grave errors about the overall quality of the data, further undermining confidence in the system.

9) Reluctance to acknowledge uncertainties in evidence

Let’s take the two-metre rule. Sir Patrick Vallance told the Health and Social Care Committee on the 5 May that 'a minute at two metres contact is about the same risk as six seconds at one metre'. He added: ‘That gives you some idea of why the two metres becomes important. The risk at one metre is about 10 to 30 times higher than the risk at two metres, so the distancing is an important part of this’. On 4 June, SAGE gave a very different estimate: at one metre it could be two to 10 times higher than at two metres they reported. So, who got it right? A one-size-fits-all two metre social distancing rule, however, is inconsistent with the underlying science of exhalations and indoor air. The majority of existing evidence is observational and non-peer-reviewed, depending very much on populations, study settings, sample collection methods and primary outcome. Such studies do not allow a definition of a specific relative risk of SARS-CoV-2 at different distances

10) Lack of access and transparency in data

The Manchester Evening News asked for trust-by-trust Covid admissions numbers as a proportion of overall capacity in Greater Manchester. Six out of seven relevant trusts did not comply with the request. Wigan, Wrightington and Leigh said that ‘we are unable to provide figures - these will be issued at national level’, while none others replied. We were advised that a Freedom of Information request was required to obtain the data and it would take up to 21 days for a response. At the Oxford University Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine, we have also had access to essential healthcare data blocked. But we are aware of important data, used to set lockdown restrictions, that are not in the public domain. This disturbing lack of transparency in what is a global public health and economic crisis hinders our understanding.

All told, the production, dissemination and use of data in the UK paints a disturbing picture. Over the course of this pandemic, we have observed outright errors, misunderstandings of effects, too much certainty being reported by advisors and interpretation lacking the normal context. So are lockdown decisions being taken on a false premise? Without transparency, how can errors be detected?

Poor quality of death data leaves us unable to say for certain who died because of Covid, who died with Covid as a cofactor – and who died of Covid after contracting the infection in hospital. Deaths outside hospitals are not subject to detailed analysis, despite their importance. The use of the word ‘cases’ implies that all cases are the same. They are not. Those who really matter are the contagious and the gravely ill (with the two categories overlapping). This data is not reported presumably because the numbers are not known and are lost in the testing frenzy.

Rather than be cautious in the use of such data, the government’s approach has been publishing worst-case scenarios. These assumptions so far have largely proven to be unreasonable and, all too often, flatly incorrect. However, we have shown that this realisation has had little effect on the approach. This leaves the public – and policymakers – in a hopeless position when it comes to navigating our way out of this

John Stone

Bayareamom

Not at all, no reason why you should have spotted it.

John

Hera

Jim Thompson, thank you for that link
Here is the information from medscape on normal dosage of hydroxyxhloroquine.
https://reference.medscape.com/drug/plaquenil-hydroxychloroquine-sulfate-343205
(But you can verify it on multiple other sites)
According to the site,
Normal prophylaxis is
400 mg (310 mg base) PO weekly, starting 2 weeks before exposure and continued for 4 weeks after departure from endemic area OR
However, the highest dose normally given is for acute malaria
800 mg (620 mg base) PO, then 400 mg (310 mg base) PO at 6 hr, 24 hr, and 48 hr after initial dose
Let's compare that to the COVID trial dosage
starting dose; both 800 mg.
6 hours later dose for acute malaria 400mg COVD trial 800mg ( extra 400 mg in COVID trial)
12 hours acute malaria; nothing. COVID trial extra 400mg, (total of extra 800 mg in COVID trial)
24 hours acute malaria 400mg COVID trial 400mg ( so COVID still 800mg more)
36 hours acute malaria; nothing COVID trial 400mg ( so COVID trial 1200mg more)
48 hours acute malaria; 400mg COVID trial 400 mg ( COVID trial still 1200 mg more)
60 hours acute malaria ; nothing COVID trial 400mg( COVID trial 1600mg more)
COVID trial; continues with 400mg per 12 hours for a total of 9 days 6.5 times 400mg =2600mg
So the COVID trial total amount over 9 days is 4200mg more than the highest dose given for acute malaria.
Could you make sure my math is correct please?
It may also interest you to know that according to this site, hydroxychloroquine has an extremely long half life.

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2017/009768s037s045s047lbl.pdf

Following a single 200 mg oral dose of PLAQUENIL to healthy males, the
mean peak blood concentration of hydroxychloroquine was 129.6 ng/mL, reached in 3.26 hours
with a half-life of 537 hours (22.4 days). In the same study, the plasma peak concentration was
50.3 ng/mL reached in 3.74 hours with a half-life of 2963 hours (123.5 days). Urine
hydroxychloroquine levels were still detectable after 3 months with approximately 10% of the
dose excreted as the parent drug. Results following a single dose of a 200 mg tablet versus i.v.
infusion (155 mg), demonstrated a half-life of about 40 days and a large volume of distribution

If my math and understanding is correct, could you explain to me why this extremely large, continuing dosage of a drug with an extended half life was used as the only "COVID trial dose" please?


Emmaphiladelphia

Operation Moonshine or how to cure Sars Cov 2 forever.
If the 180 proof doesn't kill it, you won't care....no supply chain necessary.
https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/150616134355-moonshine-sutton-still-super-169.jpg

Emmaphiladelphia

"“The middle class jobs bloodbath: As the coronavirus furlough scheme comes to an end, commuter towns will bear the brunt... and 'a million more face dole' as Christmas approaches, experts warn"

Charles Dickens, where are you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlRpGj7LWS4

Emmaphiladelphia

@Bennedetta

President Obama takes a "Q" from Alex Jones. The results are stunning!
https://clashdaily.com/2020/10/no-mojo-obama-has-event-to-support-biden-nobody-shows-up/

@Jim

If you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all.

greyone

Jim
re hydroxy dosage of patients in clinical trials:
how do you explain the extraordinary (lethal?) doses used.
is that what you call "working together"?

also have you found the surgisphere data that caused the retraction from Lancet.

Jim Thompson

Emmaphilidelphia,

I am sorry you feel that way. Please understand that I am discussing the published studies and not attacking anyone. Ad hominem at times can take over civil discussion in this country--but I believe we are better than that. As we are all in this together then it is important to all work together.

Benedetta

Then again maybe they are lying about how long it survive on surfaces; over stating it?

Benedetta

Cia; Apology accepted, and is also forgotten . Thank you very much.

I will say this Cia. We are all going to get it, it is just a matter of time. I say that with 100 percent certainty. It is only a matter of time.

I am very careful, not so much in the beginning because it was far away, but when it finally made it to my county, and to the nursing home; I have been watching and waiting. I sent all the help I had with my father away. It has been a very tiring month. I am over tired, and over sensitive. So maybe I owe you an apology.


Viruses are suppose be delicate. It takes seconds of exposure to sunlight to be torn apart. Viruses only last a few hours if not mostly a few minutes on surfaces. I am now hearing that this virus last days on surfaces. This is unheard of?!!! This is different! There is no way then that it is going away.


I want treatment. And when I do catch it --- I don't want to be blamed for catching it. It is not my fault.

That is blaming the victim. It is only a matter of time. I want treatment. Is that too much to ask ? I will hold it off as long as I can till some one gets their hands around that little weasel Fauci's neck and wrings it out of him to give good advice and some common sense to our governors.

Jim Thompson

Hera
Re: What dosage was used, please?

“Patients allocated to hydroxychloroquine sulfate (200mg tablet containing 155mg base equivalent) received a loading dose of 4 tablets (800 mg) at zero and 6 hours, followed by 2 tablets (400 mg) starting at 12 hours after the initial dose and then every 12 hours for the next 9 days or until discharge (whichever occurred earlier) (see Supplementary Appendix).

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.15.20151852v1.full.pdf

A meta-analysis study published from India.
“…a systematic review of the available studies and meta-analysis of the comparative studies to analyze the efficacy and safety of hydroxychloroquine and its related formulations in patients with COVID-19…The pooled risk difference of favourable outcome with hydroxychloroquine compared to the control group was 0.00 (95 CI -0.03 to 0.03) which was statistically not significant (p = 0.10.)”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7462641/pdf/main.pdf

John Stone

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8878243/Commuter-towns-bear-brunt-end-furlough-scheme-amid-middle-class-jobs-bloodbath.html

“The middle class jobs bloodbath: As the coronavirus furlough scheme comes to an end, commuter towns will bear the brunt... and 'a million more face dole' as Christmas approaches, experts warn
The number on the dole has already tripled in the hardest-hit towns and cities
In the ten worst-affected areas there are 138,000 on out-of-work benefits
Hardest hit areas include Slough, Luton and Peterborough and seaside resorts“.

And this will just be the beginning.

Cia

Benedetta,

I said at the time how sorry I was that your nephew in his thirties had died. Had he been conscientious about wearing a mask in public? If he hadn’t, he probably would not have gotten a severe case of Covid. If he had, then it was very sad that he got a fatal case anyway: nothing is 100%. But it’s like with seat belts: if someone dies in a wreck because they weren’t wearing a seat belt, it would have been better if they had, although some accidents are so bad that people die even wearing seat bets. Tomas Macias blew off the measures, went to a party, and caught Covid. He put up a comment on Facebook saying how much he regretted it and how guilty he felt to have endangered his family members. A very nice man. I have nothing whatsoever against him other than that he behaved foolishly. He wrote that he hoped that with faith in God he would recover, but he died the next day. He died urging others to wear masks and social distance. The article says he was 51, but I think he looks younger.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/california-man-who-posted-regret-attending-party-died-day-later-n1232675

Bayareamom

@John Stone:

Thank you for your quick response; sorry about that. Had no idea you'd made this comment. A friend sent me this info. this morning. I hadn't heard about any of this, until today.

Wow.

Very, very concerning.

John Stone

Bayareamom

Yes, this was my published comment:

"Operation Moonshot or How to Shut Down Society and the Economy Forever
"Dear Editor

"How many false positives will 10 million tests a day generate?"

Multiply by 5 to map on to the US.

Bayareamom

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3558


@John Stone,

Have you seen this? If so -- comments?

John Stone

So, I have just gone to the latest reports at Oxford CEBM:

Interpreting excess mortality in England: week ending 9 October 2020

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/22268/
Summary:
Excess deaths remain low in England, with 112 observed in the most recent week reported – one percent higher than expected. Across the regions, excess deaths do not show a consistent picture.

In terms of death by an underlying cause, ischaemic heart disease and stroke continue to show excess deaths, and diabetes mellitus has seen excess deaths in all 29 weeks of the PHE reporting window. In contrast, Dementia and Alzheimers have seen deaths lower than expected for 19 consecutive weeks with 139 (12%) fewer deaths than expected this week. There are also notably fewer deaths for chronic lower respiratory conditions, other respiratory conditions and acute respiratory infections.

Deaths in own homes have seen an excess of 23,619 since week 14, a similar number to the 23,005 excess deaths in care homes. Both far exceed the excess noted in hospital. While the majority of COVID-19 deaths have occurred in hospitals (n=32,275), the excess is only 8,486 or 7% higher than what would be expected.

The deaths of people in their own homes are predominantly due to other causes: 2,421 (roughly 10%) are COVID-19 deaths. In care homes, COVID-19 deaths make up 65% of the excess (n= 14,999). ...

October 23, 2020
Carl Heneghan, Dan Howdon, Jason Oke, Tom Jefferson

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/22268/


Tracking UK Covid-19 cases

September 28, 2020

Jason Oke, Daniel Howdon, Carl Heneghan

Updated 14th October:

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/tracking-uk-covid-19-cases/

So, here they are taking the government advisors projection which by now should have risen to 100k cases a week, and the find that they are only at 25k. They are fully aware all though they don’t say so that the 25k is a bogus figure because of inappropriate PCR testing. These are rational, experienced people - meanwhile the politicians conspire to keep the country locked down.

Bayareamom

Just to make sure this link that I posted went thru in my prior comment, here it is again:

https://jacksoncoker.com/about/in-the-news/physician-poll-on-covid-19-chloroquine-and-hydroxychloroquine/

Bayareamom

I'll put this here:

______________________________
Physician Poll on COVID-19 Chloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine

Physician Poll on COVID-19 Chloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine
Physicians share their opinions on using anti-malaria drugs to treat coronavirus patients.

SNIP:

65 Percent of Physicians in New Survey Would Give Anti-Malaria Drugs to Their Own Family to Treat COVID-19


ATLANTA, April 8, 2020 -- Sixty-five percent of physicians across the United States said they would prescribe the anti-malaria drugs chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine to treat or prevent COVID-19 in a family member, according to a new survey released today by Jackson & Coker, one of the country's largest physician staffing firms.

Only 11 percent said they would not use the drug at all.

Meanwhile, 30 percent of the surveyed doctors said they would prescribe the medications to a family member prior to the onset of symptoms if they had been exposed to the novel coronavirus, a highly contagious virus that causes a pneumonia-like infection of the lungs.

"Working in healthcare, we've learned the best way to get a candid perspective on treatment options from a physician is to ask: 'Would you give this to your family?'" said Tim Fischer, President of Jackson & Coker. "Families across the U.S. – and the world really – want to know what they can do to protect and save their loved ones."

Emmaphiladelphia

@Pharma Jim

This June "study" has been thoroughly debunked by the Frontline Doctors, the jewish doctor for the Orthodox community in New York city, and the President himself. This study waited until patients were late stage before giving the meds. It is well established that EARLY treatment at a specific dosing level is effective. The elderly could take preventative doses. They would never have to go to the hospital. I'm tired of repeated lies and fake studies. We have real patients with real doctors and real results. That's what counts. The antibody treatment, even the old-fashioned convalescent serum, seems to work for later stage cases. This is what Israel has been using all along for their hospitalized elderly. It was Israel that originally isolated a potent Sars Cov2 antibody for monoclonal replication. Such treatment certainly worked for President Trump.

Trump knows we know.....

Trump aide says ‘we’re not going to control the pandemic

"The coronavirus has reached into the heart of the White House once more, less than a week before Election Day, as it scorches the nation and the president’s top aide says “we’re not going to control the pandemic.” Officials on Sunday scoffed at the notion of dialing back in-person campaigning despite positive tests from several aides to Vice President Mike Pence, who leads the White House coronavirus task force.

White House chief of staff Mark Meadows, pressed to explain why the pandemic cannot be reined in, said, “Because it is a contagious virus just like the flu.” He told CNN’s ”State of the Union” that the government was focused on getting effective THERAPEUTICS and vaccines to market." (Emphasis mine) https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-pandemics-virus-outbreak-03de71eecbb9a605b1efc324cdeb3a5e

Cia

Marianna,

Cases are exploding. I’m no longer as sure as I was that the virus has become milder: it may be that older people are staying home and not getting it, while younger people with a lower risk of dying are getting it for the most part. But thousands are still dying of it. With 5,000 a day being diagnosed with it in Italy every day two weeks ago, but 19,000 a day for the last few days, you have to pause and take stock. From the time of diagnosis to hospitalization when it occurs is maybe a week. From hospitalization to death, when it occurs, is usually three to four weeks. So when your cases quadruple in two weeks, you have to take urgent action to halt the spread now. We won’t know for another month what this will do to the death rate. If you wait a month and let angry young men in the street make your policy, what do you do when your deaths quadruple in a month, and by that time cases are fifty or seventy thousand a day, meaning that a month from THAT time, deaths could be... and at that point there’s nothing you can do to save lives because it’s completely out of control.

But how do you shelter the most vulnerable? I’m one of the most vulnerable, but am not getting any money from the government to pay for our needs. There is no program to do so. Where would the money come from, especially at a time like this? In Italy it is common for the elderly to live with their children: how would you shelter them? Forcibly remove them for their own protection to put them into special centers?

If you just let it rip, there would be chaos. No one to supply HCQ or monoclonal antibodies to anyone but the richest and most elite.

Cia

Jim Thompson,

On the other hand, a study by the Henry Ford Institute in June found that HCQ halved deaths in hospitalized patients.

https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study

The Surgisphere non-study of data completely fabricated to disparage HCQ shows that the pharma industry is willing to do anything to lie about the efficacy of HCQ in order to promote dangerous, ineffective, but very lucrative remdesivir.

Hera

Jim Thompson, there appear to be comments that the hydroxychloroquine dosage used was far too high, and could be expected to cause toxic reactions. Can you verify what dosage was used, please? For comparison, here are the typical max dosages of hydroxyxchloroquine given for acute malaria.
https://reference.medscape.com/drug/plaquenil-hydroxychloroquine-sulfate-343205

If it is true that the medication was given at toxic dosages, then are we looking at either horrifying incompetence or deliberate murder? If the dosage was indeed wrong, it is not surprising that it is so hard to find in the study write up, and links you gave.
Re the Italians, it appears that vitamin d deficiency is rife in Italy. It is sad that lockdowns, not cheap treatment for a known vitamin deficiency, is the governments instant reaction.
https://moh-it.pure.elsevier.com/en/publications/guidelines-on-prevention-and-treatment-of-vitamin-d-deficiency#:~:text=In%20Italy%2C%20approximately%2050%25%20of,not%20on%20vitamin%20D%20supplements.

From the study
In Italy, approximately 50% of young healthy subjects have vitamin D insufficiency during the winter months. The prevalence of deficiency increases with ageing, affecting almost all elderly subjects not on vitamin D supplements.

From webmd
Low vitamin d levels are linked to severe COVID.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200925/low-vitamin-d-levels-tied-to-higher-odds-for-severe-covid#1

Bayareamom

@Marianna,

Just wanted to make a quick comment to commend you on your post.

Very well said!

John Stone

Jim

At the very least there is a trail of bad faith over HCQ

https://www.ageofautism.com/2020/06/dr-meryl-nass-on-how-a-false-hydroxychloroquine-narrative-was-created.html

Jim Thompson

Emmaphilidelphia,
Re: This should be prescribed for nursing home residents.

Here the statistics reported on the following link for hydroxychloroquine use .

https://www.recoverytrial.net/news/statement-from-the-chief-investigators-of-the-randomised-evaluation-of-covid-19-therapy-recovery-trial-on-hydroxychloroquine-5-june-2020-no-clinical-benefit-from-use-of-hydroxychloroquine-in-hospitalised-patients-with-covid-19

“A total of 1542 patients were randomised to hydroxychloroquine and compared with 3132 patients randomised to usual care alone. There was no significant difference in the primary endpoint of 28-day mortality (25.7% hydroxychloroquine vs. 23.5% usual care; hazard ratio 1.11 [95% confidence interval 0.98-1.26]; p=0.10). There was also no evidence of beneficial effects on hospital stay duration or other outcomes. “

John Stone

In March I went to hospital twice with a respiratory infection because I have an underlying condition - a couple of doctors were actually quite rude to me for wasting their time although it was what I had been told to do - quite possibly it was Covid. Frankly, they didn’t have a bloody clue, they just wanted me out of the place. They weren’t the usual people - in a hospital in which I had great trust - and I didn’t like their attitude. I have no trust in government organisation and no trust in their information. In my opinion some of these people at least belong in prison.

But most importantly, you cannot run a country with a single policy objective to which everything else is subjected without medium term catastrophe, and that is where we are going. Many people have already died because of this who didn’t have Covid.

John Stone

Jim

It may well be that if South Dakota did not bear the brunt of the epidemic in the spring it is doing so now. Also, the evidence of what slows the progress is not unequivocal. It would I believe have hugely helped if people had been advised to take good sized doses of Vitamin D, C, zinc etc., had been allowed to take HCQ. These I think have a better evidence base than masks. If Fauci and Gates are telling us to wear masks they are probably laughing up their sleeves. I am afraid that I cannot accept that we get trustworthy advice from these sources.

Grace Green

I just want to let readers know that the hospitals are not overflowing with "covid" cases. What they are calling cases are actually false positives for a test which finds human DNA, not a coronavirus. These people do not have symptoms, so they are not going to hospitals. Most hospitals are well below capacity, because anyone who had cancer, heart disease or other serious conditions seven months ago has already died at home. This is shown in the statistics. Coronaviruses (the common cold) are only viable in certain climatic conditions, which occur between December and April. There was no pandemic, the "cases" and deaths have been exaggerated. There is no "second wave" or whatever they're calling it now. Please read and listen to the experts, such as Professor Dolores Cahill and many others, who are giving us the science. Or watch UKColumn, Monday, Wednesday and Friday 1 pm GMT. Perfect love casts out fear.

Emmaphiladelphia

"And obviously, even though we have effective treatments, with numbers as large as this, few will get them."

CIA,
Where do you get your statistics for that? Hydroxychloraquine is stockpiled as a necessary medicine. We have had plenty of it and its CHEAP. The bulk of the deaths is in the elderly. This should be prescribed for nursing home residents. They could also have the antibody treatment reserved for them for more serious cases. Everyone else should be back to normal- no lockdowns. Anyone wishing to take other measures could do so at their own discretion. Herd immunity would kick in and we would be done. We would not STARVE because of a collapsed economy and food supply.

Jim Thompson

John,
Re: The Nature IMHE paper is not strong on evidence…

Thank you. Your comments are spot on and well thought out.
You are correct. The paper presents a model.

Now consider that South Dakota is one of the two states that have no mask mandates.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/us-states-require-masks/story?id=71472434

Consider as well that South Dakota has no social distancing mandate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7pCLGbOSyM

While this is not empirical evidence using a rigorous scientific method, look at the current South Dakota per capita infection rate for Covid 19.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html
and
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109004/coronavirus-covid19-cases-rate-us-americans-by-state/

Marianna

Due to “virus attenuation”, this is not really the same virus that we saw in March. And the virus will unfortunately run its natural course pretty much regardless of what man does. That’s what viruses do. So it’s no longer about “14 days to flatten the curve” - whatever happened to that? It should now only be about protecting our most vulnerable, without fear or judgment, and then distributing the aforementioned effective treatments to whomever still needs them, as soon as they need them. Unlike what happened at the beginning. We know more now than we did then. Keep out of the hospital, and there’s no need to panic. Otherwise the rest of society should be able to carry on with living their lives as much as possible. Each of us has the personal responsibility of using their own judgment as to their level of medical risk. We discuss these issues all the time here at AofA. I’d rather have dangerous freedom over peaceful and safe slavery. Libertà!

Cia

John,

Triage of incoming patients was a horrifying issue last spring, widely reported on, especially in Italy. Because of the huge numbers of Covid patients flooding the hospitals seeking treatment. But just stopping the measures on the grounds that we just have to live with Covid would cause an unimaginable number to contract severe cases and seek treatment. All resources are finite. If you can’t treat everyone, you can’t, and many die on the floor of the hospital ir on the sidewalk outside. Deciding to ignore the problem does nothing to solve it.

And obviously, even though we have effective treatments, with numbers as large as this, few will get them.

One of the front pages you linked said 300,000 nurses were under unbearable stress. So what is the solution for that? What is causing the stress? Unprecedentedly high numbers of cases of Covid. Failing to take measures to contain it leads to ever higher case numbers. Ever higher stress. Ever higher numbers of health care staff dying. What do they want? Self triage, people not seeking treatment and dying in agony at home?

China delivered food to the apartments of the sick. You could also leave food at the door of everyone unable to feed their family, for a limited length of time. Italy had enough food that it could do that. Every developed country could do that. The alternative is hundreds of thousands of preventable deaths.

What are the irate young men in Naples going to do when there are thousands of sick people everywhere coughing their lives out? Many more disabled by long Covid, unable to work or enjoy life? Just yelling Down with efforts to contain the disease, WE say Let it rip!

John Stone

Police break up a demonstration in Rome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSSNV-pc-M0

John Stone

The Nature IMHE paper is not strong on evidence as opposed to extraordinary graphics. It is troubling that a major prospective study is apparently being suppressed

https://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/10/23/latest-news-171/

I wrote about IMHE and this project in CHD quoting from Wiki (sometimes useful):

“ IHME was launched in June 2007 based on a core grant of $105 million primarily funded by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation…In 2017, the Gates Foundation provided IHME with another $279 million grant…Founding board members included Chair Julio Frenk, Dean of the Harvard School of Public Health; Harvey Fineberg, President of the Institute of Medicine; Gro Harlem Brundtland, former Prime Minister of Norway; Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, the Minister of Health for Ethiopia; K. Srinath Reddy, President of the Public Health Foundation of India; Tomris Turmen, President of the International Children’s Center and Head of the Department of Pediatrics/Newborn Medicine at the University of Ankara Medical School in Ankara, Turkey; Lincoln Chen, President of the China Medical Board; Jane Halton, who has served as Secretary of the Department of Health and Ageing in Australia, as well as the Department of Finance; and David Roux, Co-Chief Executive of Silver Lake Partners…”

I am all in favour of people taking ordinary due care over infection but not of burning down economies:

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/wheres-the-missing-evidence/

Jim Thompson

Cia,
Re: Then go back to masks, social distancing, hand washing, and surface disinfection, which are not hard to do.


See https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/10/24/927472457/universal-mask-wearing-could-save-some-130-000-u-s-lives-study-suggests

Emmaphiladelphia

@Bennedetta

This may be the FREE treatment we were hoping for.....but don't hold your breath. Fauci and the NIH got a hold of it and we know what they did to Hydroxychloroquine...
Fauci is still clinging to the very expensive and ineffective Remdesiver. The highly effective antibody treatment will be "added" on. We'll see how that goes. Trump's announcement and comments on the video after he had recovered must have pushed Fauci to at least look like he is doing something. KEEP YOUR EYES ON THIS.
NIH Testing Hyperimmune Intravenous Immunoglobulin Plus Remdesivir to Treat COVID-19
https://scitechdaily.com/nih-testing-hyperimmune-intravenous-immunoglobulin-plus-remdesivir-to-treat-covid-19/

LIKE SESAME SEEDS ON A BUN
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/05/vaccines-found-that-may-protect-against-covid-19-in-animal-models/

That's the visual size difference between Sars Cov2 virus and a cell covered with it. DO YOU THINK A MASK WILL KEEP IT OUT OF YOUR AIRWAYS?
See the photo at the top of the article. Also, this MAY 2020 article says that when lab monkeys were infected with Sars Cov2, the antibodies they produced could fight it off at re-exposure a month later. THIS MEANS THAT NATURAL HERD IMMUNITY CAN BE EFFECTIVE. Prolonged lockdowns force us into economic ruin before we reach this level, and the elderly remain more vulnerable....The Gates Plan.

EMMAPHILADELPHIA

This puts it all together:

BOMBSHELL: Covid-19 isn’t a pandemic plan, it’s an EXTERMINATION plan for humanity
https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-10-20-covid-19-isnt-a-pandemic-plan-its-an-extermination-plan-for-humanity.html

"The rapid spread of the virus allowed the globalist-controlled media to claim “cases” were skyrocketing, thereby justifying weaponized lockdowns and a global rolling out of medical fascism disguised as “public health” policies. Based entirely on the speed of the spread of the virus, cities, states and nations of the world were able to achieve three key goals that represent the necessary precursors to global human extermination:

Crushing the existing human economies of the world, including food production, ultimately leading to mass famine, homelessness and total dependence on government.
Rolling out new, Orwellian medical fascism laws and edicts that set the precedent for mass arrests and forced relocation into “quarantine camps” for those who resist. These camps, of course, are actually death camps and processing facilities for eliminating human beings.
Forcing compliance with global vaccine mandates which will of course be used to achieve global infertility and accelerated deaths from diseases and subsequent infections. Whereas a pathogen could not achieve a 90% death rate on its own, the engineered pathogen (the Wuhan coronavirus) was able to be used to drive people into mass vaccine compliance, during which they can be directly injected with toxic substances, vaccine compliance tracking nanotech (quantum dots) and biology-altering mRNA sequences that literally hijack the body’s cells and reprogram them to produce whatever protein sequences are engineered into the mRNA vaccines.
Thus, globalists have simultaneously built a global pandemic prison camp combined with a mandatory vaccine obedience system through which they can repeatedly spread more infectious disease and promote accelerated deaths or infertility.

The end goal, as globalists like Bill Gates openly support, is the elimination of billions of human beings living today. Ideally, globalists seek to reduce the world population to about 500 million people, which is roughly a 94% reduction in the current human population."
READ ENTIRE ARTICLE

Emmaphiladelphia

Dr. Fauci’s COVID-19 Treachery
With Chilling Ties to the Chinese Military
by Peter R. Breggin MD and Ginger R. Breggin1
https://vaccineliberationarmy.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/COVID-19-the-blog-TREACHERY-WITH-ANTHONY-FAUCI.pdf

Actually you can trace it back to Rockefeller Globalist Henry Kissinger, who, as Nixon's Secretary of State, opened up trade with Communist China (backstabbing Taiwan) and help them get "most favored trade nation" status. That was the beginning of the end of U.S manufacturing. We couldn't compete against Communist Chinese slave labor. Only Trump has attempted to undo this deadly deal. Fauci is a controlled lynchpin like Biden.

Emmaphiladelphia

"Well, let them do as they like. Then we’d have a clearer picture of how many would be disabled or die without the measures."

@ CIA
Why don't I hear you railing about the fact that we have THREE successful cheap treatments for Covid19. WHY CAN'T THE PEASANTS GET ACCESS TO THESE MEDICATIONS? WHY DO THEY HAVE TO DIE?
Elderly Trump pushed both Hydroxychoraquine and anti-body treatments. Both worked for him. Who is preventing their widespread use? The FDA? That's where we need to turn our attention. The unicorn vaccine and endless lockdowns won't rescue us. Lockdowns have their own death warrant.

John Stone

These are the British Sunday newspapers. Worth particularly looking at the Sunday Times front page report.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-54678791

Our political class were never protecting ordinary people.

Cia

Italy reopened at the beginning of June after its lockdown and in many ways went back to normal at that time, with very few cases of Covid. But now the situation has changed again. Covid came back: two weeks ago there were 5,000 new cases diagnosed a day: for the past few days it has been 19,000 a day. You can’t say Let’s just act as though there were no crisis. There is a crisis. Of course you have to keep the economy going so people don’t starve. That has been a major challenge all over the world. But if Italy, or anyone else, reaches the point (again, for many) of people dying in the street in large numbers, then everyone will lock down automatically. Many people will stop going to work. Like at the meat packing plants here. No one will continue working once they see a pandemic run wild. People in Wuhan with Covid were jumping off of bridges rather than go home and infect their family.

Italy has had 504,509 diagnosed cases. 203,802 are active now. 301,327 have been closed, either by recovery or death. 37,210 have died since March. That’s a 12% fatality rate, far higher than here. They would have to be nuts to just try to ignore it and carry on as usual. Cases have exploded, every day now quadruple what they were only two weeks ago. As they are exploding nearly everywhere. A friend in Bulgaria wrote with figures showing that at this time ten times more cases a day are being diagnosed than a month ago. Who’s going to go back to work when that means almost certainly getting Covid and taking it home to infect your family members and neighbors?

I’d say a month-long or six-week lockdown is a good idea for countries seeing this explosion. Not longer for the most stringent level. But everyone has to comply for that length of time for the sake of the entire community. Then go back to masks, social distancing, hand washing, and surface disinfection, which are not hard to do. It’s childish to say we’re tired of the restrictions. Of course we are. Everyone is. But that’s better than huge numbers of deaths and disabled from a pandemic run wild.

greyone

cee
your faith in public health bureaucrats and politicians is touching.
perhaps they are, indeed, free of career and mercenary entanglements and have not traded policy for profiteering.
It could happen.

John Stone

Cia,

I don't think anyone is indifferent to death or illness. But the fall out on other health issues and even people's ability to feed themselves is not a matter for indifference. People are being made poor, jobless and destitute at a terrifying rate. In the UK we had 25,000 excess deaths in nursing homes in "Lockdown", non-covid related (and very great doubts about how many "Covid" deaths are causal). Our politicians have been intellectually slovenly and incompetent beyond words. Our opposition politicians have been opportunist and exploitatative to a fault. This is no cause for sarcasm, I promise you.

John

Benedetta

Cia;
My sister-in-law lost her mother-in-law 92 years old too.

And they cared deeply.
All their fault though cause they might have not wore a mask some where, some how - unknown to you.

One thing for sure they live under medical tyranny of Mississippi.

Benedetta

Cia;
Don't be mad at us for wanting to get on with life and reclaim our freedoms.
Be mad that treatments are being denied.
First we are denied hydroxychloroquine. Dr. Salome Gold has a website that you can go to that will tell you what states are likely to give it to you and others you can just forget it. It all depends on our governors.

And after looking at the map will Some one here tell me why Mississippi and Louisiana are just like New York, Penn, California and all that stuff. They are so repressed -- as repressed as California.

Anyway google America's Frontline Doctors Com/HCQ

On top of that another doctor is trying to get the word out that budesonide formoterol fumarate dihydratide that is one of those breathing treatments for asthma , and it will stop any over reaction to covid 19 to the lungs. They are saying it works wonders and helps even those really sick. I was told that this is not that albuterol stuff though, it won't work. Apparently budesonide delivers right to the lungs a steroid that stops interlukin 1,2,3,3, 5, 6 - all the way up to 14 or so.

Also Nac Acetyl cysteine is an excellent treatment. Who knew.

It seems that all these antioxidants are great. Green tea extract too.

We now have -- well not me - but that antibody stuff that President Trump took. IS IT FREE YET?

There are treatments and we are being denied. We can't stay in hiding forever. So save your anger for those that deserve it. Cause my nephew that you told me if only he had wore a mask (pretty callous Cia) he would have been just fine. He would have been just fine, if anyone cared in the medical profession and watched those blood pressure meds he was taking. If he had had hydroxychloroquine

Anytime you want to tell me about how sorry you are for that misspeak, I will forgive. Cause I know, I stick my foot in my mouth all the time.

Cia

Well, let them do as they like. Then we’d have a clearer picture of how many would be disabled or die without the measures. My ex-husband and his wife in Milan both got Covid in March and his lungs were damaged, maybe permanently. His mother died of it this past summer, but she was over ninety, so who cares, right?

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