36 Deaths Isn't Enough to Stop Flu Vax Program in S. Korea
Hey, Measles. Where’d You Go?

Naples Erupts Over Another Looming Lockdown

BastaL Italia s ‘e’ desta. Italy has awakened.

Non sai parlare italiano? Non preoccuparti. Not able to speak Italian? Don't worry.

The tone of this video from Naples will be perfectly clear.  The very word first word you hear, is the only word you need to hear - BASTA! Enough.  We know Americans can protest and even riot - we've seen plenty of it all summer. But will we have the Italian coraggio, if forced to shut down again?

Thank you to Alina A for sending the video and this report:

This video is taken on the streets of Napoli , Italy.
It is a reaction to an official communication from the governor of Campania ( the region of which Naples is the capital) , De Luca. He states that the situation is unsustainable and before it is too late he wants to lock down completely the region for 30/ 40 days. In his public statements De Luca keeps on spreading fear and says that he will request the total lockdown to be extended to the whole of Italy. The demonstration is a peaceful gathering of an enormous number of Neapolitans and people from the region of Campania , coming together saying“ Basta! Enough! We know you are lying. intensive cares units in hospitals are empty! We know it s flu season. ! We are not confused any longer! “Of course the charge of the police in riot gear transforms it all and all takes an uglier turn.


 




Comments

Benedetta

What is the problem with too much vitamin D?
Kidney stones?
I am not sure.

There is that vitamin D3 with K cause K tells it where to go. So they say.

Benedetta

What is the problem with too much vitamin D?
Kidney stones?
I am not sure.

There is that vitamin D3 with K cause K tells it where to go. So they say.

John Stone

Visitor

Thank you - Coriolan, Tennstedt LPO live. I was likely there. But we shouldn’t go further off topic.

Visitor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-w8mlm_ZR8

Gary Ogden

This is chilling:
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/11/no_author/english-totalitarianism/

Cia

Benedetta,

Ten percent of Covid patients still have symptoms of disease many months later. Last month I consulted with the homeopath Dr. Neustaedter. He said he had tried to treat a number of patients who had a viral disease last winter, since which they had never recovered their health. Including me. He thinks all of us had Covid. I started to suffer breathlessness, extreme fatigue, and daytime sweating for no reason at the beginning of Feb. I had had a severe coughing illness for ten days in December, after going through four international airports a few days before. These are all symptoms of Covid. I don’t know if the two illnesses were related to each other, maybe the second a recurrence of the first, or maybe new. I had the strange episodes of sudden sweating for no reason for eight months, not in the last two weeks. The breathlessness is severe and disabling. In the case of SARS and MERS, about ten percent of patients had permanent breathlessness, fibrosis, for the rest of their lives (so to speak, it’s been less than 20 years since SARS and ten since MERS). I had MRSA which I thought might be causing the symptoms, then I thought it was just autoimmune dysautonomia, but now I’m back to Covid. A health care provider gave me an albuterol inhaler on Tuesday, but it doesn’t help. I’ll see her again next week. I found an article yesterday finding that this post-Covid respiratory syndrome was identical to hypersensitivity pneumonitis, often eventually fatal. I got completely out of breath yesterday stooping to pick up a book, straightening many books downstairs, and setting C up in the driveway with two folding chairs, a pot of candy, and the jack o lantern she carved, to give candy to trick or treaters. Just doing those simple things left me completely struggling for breath.

I had read about Bojo’s (with a j, not n) never recovering his health or vigor after his bout with Covid. And, by all accounts, it’s at least 10% who never recover our health. Something to bear in mind.

Visitor

John,

Carlos Kleiber would know about the collision and it is a perfect description. He is certainly in my rotation.

Emmaphiladelphia

"I think it’s still a matter of not much being known yet. We don’t even have solid evidence of a first infection protecting against reinfection by the same strain six months later. Or a year or two years later. Or one month later."

So why did Bill Gates invest $ billions in a Sars Cov2 vaccine? No effective anti-bodies, no workable vaccine.

Of course we know antibody treatment works because that's what cured President Trump in record time. If he did get it again, he would just get another treatment.

CIA, you're done.

John Stone

Visitor

The great conductor Carlos Kleiber when asked what it would be like to conduct the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra in the Coriolan Overture said it would be like driving a Rolls Royce (oddly he didn’t suggest a Mercedes) hard into a brick wall. That has affinities with our time. Gritty performance from Reiner too.

Benedetta

Mark Steyn on Tucker Carlson's show; on the night that Trump helicoptered over to Walter Reed because of Corona virus observed that that Boris Johnson never returned to good health even now after all these months. Could be.

Visitor

Love the music. We should take them...

Coriolan Overture, Op. 62
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nEB8lX2uKU

alas

Mama Told Me Not to Come | Three Dog Night
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svTVR3DcTvY

John Stone

Gary

I think the Wagner is apt for the seedy political machinations, the rage and the betrayal - whatever Wagner’s personal flaws he had unparalleled musical-drama insights into power and it how plays out in human terms. It isn’t a hero who has died, like the Eroica, it is an ingenuous youth who has been tricked and murdered very specifically in the project of trying to enslave the earth.

Jim - and perhaps we need Bolero to rekindle our enthusiasm for life - so thanks for that.

Things are very bad over here. The Conservative government is running a kleptocracy only egged on by the opposition parties (mostly Labour and the Scottish National Party) trying to outbid them in Lockdown virtue signalling (and no doubt playing for long-term globalist patronage), but there are major schisms growing within the Conservative Party and a remarkable amount of opposition in the right of centre mainstream media. Unfortunately, it is unlikely to stop the government reducing us all to beggary but there may be some small political hope at the end of it.

Gary Ogden

John: Thank you very much for the Leonard Bernstein, one of my all time favorite musicians. My preference in funereal music is the Second Movement of "Eroica," but you've hit the nail squarely on the head for the tenor of the times. We have two terrible political parties here in the U.S., but one is clearly worse than the other. What about the political parties in the UK? Parliament? Is Boris the worst in memory?

Jim Thompson

A Boléro from New York: NY Philharmonic Musicians Send Musical Tribute to Healthcare Workers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3UW218_zPo

Jenny Allan

Mail's Richard Littlejohn's parody of Christmas songs
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8895609/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-Merry-Christmas-nobodys-having-fun.html

Do They Know It's Christmas?

It's Christmas time
We're supposed to be afraid
It's Christmas time
And what a bloody mess they've made.
In our 'world-class' country
The NHS can't cope
So all who enter here
Abandon hope.

You can't say a prayer
They've closed all the churches down
It's Christmas time
But you can't go into town.
There's a world outside your window
It's a world of fear and dread
Where a kiss on the cheek can kill you
A hug can leave you dead

There's more on the link

John Stone

Jim

Yes, beautiful singing and playing, and “where we are going“ if we do not fight back is endless debt and imprisonment to the rule of global oligarchs. My feelings are even more apocalyptic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT9c2mpDUiY

Jim Thompson

John,
Re: national lockdown

Words fail to express the sorrow at hearing more bad news. Possibly song can express it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_N8fVhQn8w

John Stone

Thanks Jim

This btw is Jefferson’s view (with Carl Heneghan) on our new national lockdown:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8900897/Oxford-experts-DR-TOM-JEFFERSON-PROFESSOR-CARL-HENEGHAN-reveal-blueprint-handed-Boris-Johnson.html

greyone

perhaps there is a middle way-early stage care.
https://www.trialsitenews.com/this-doctor-has-covid-he-has-a-plan-for-all-of-us/

Jim Thompson

Dr. Tom Jefferson et. al. study, preprint posted April 7, 2020


https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.30.20047217v2.full.pdf

Jim Thompson

John,

Thank you for the link to the video.

Re: Dr. Tom Jefferson study referenced in video

Regarding the data “Pooling of all nine trials did not show a statistically significant reduction of ILI cases (Risk Ratio 0.93, 95%CI 0.83 to 1.05) or laboratory-confirmed influenza cases (Risk Ratio 0.84, 95%CI 0.61-1.17) in the group wearing a mask compared to those not wearing a mask (see Figure 3a).”

The risk ratios, given in fig. 3a, 3b, and 3c are for influenza like illness. They don’t show a significant lower risk of getting the flu when wearing masks.

Regarding Covid, “CONCLUSIONS: Most included trials had poor design, reporting and sparse events. There was insufficient evidence to provide a recommendation on the use of facial barriers without other measures. We found insufficient evidence for a difference between surgical masks and N95 respirators and limited evidence to support effectiveness of quarantine. Based on observational evidence from the previous SARS epidemic included in the previous version of our Cochrane review we recommend the use of masks combined with other measures.”

John Stone

Jim

Thanks

Btw

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/truth-rfk-jr-jeremy-hammond-mask-wearing/?utm_source=salsa&eType=EmailBlastContent&eId=b4e0967b-b2fc-4452-bb86-01cf1be86f55

Jim Thompson

John,
Re: we don’t have evidence
Here is a link to a study on efficiency of different masks. https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083/tab-pdf

Here are links to a Kansas University presentation on a study on counties in Kansas for wearing and not wearing masks. This study is not published in a peer reviewed journal.
https://mediahub.ku.edu/media/Masks/1_49bb9aid
https://ipsr.ku.edu/covid19/images/MaskMandateUpdate.pdf

Here is a report by Vanderbilt. This study is not published in a peer reviewed journal.
https://www.vumc.org/health-policy/sites/default/files/public_files/Vanderbilt%20COVID19%20Report-Oct%2027.pdf

greyone

"And still there is debate over mitigation measures like wearing masks in indoor areas."

Masks reduce oxygen intake, which negatively affects the immune system.
Where masking was imposed by executive orders, there seems to be a negative axsociation with effectiveness.
Of course there is still debate.

John Stone

Cia

You haven’t made good your claim and I am not going to publish anything more on this unless you do. It is not somehow better if people die of heart failure, cancer, loneliness, physical and mental neglect, cold, starvation, than Covid. There is nothing uniquely terrible about death from Covid. This does not mean it is not a problem but it just must not usurp everything else as a social aim.

Cia

John,

Some charts and info ftom Eric Dinh on reinfection from September, using genomic analysis.

https://mobile.twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1309099637547167745?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1309099637547167745%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftheprepared.com%2Fblog%2Fkey-developments-for-thursday-september-24-2020%2F

Not many cases either original or reinfection undergo genomic analysis. Ding refers to a first such case, but not, for instance, the Chineseman who got Covid with a positive test, recovered and tested negative, then got it again or still, tested positive and died of it beginning of Feb. nor does he mention the 15 Koreans reinfected in the article I linked. We don’t know how often reinfection occurs and we don’t know how often it is more serious the second time, but what is certain is that it can occur. Five months of immunity is not much if a lot of the time it wears off in six, ten, or twelve months, and the person is then vulnerable to reinfection. We haven’t had enough time yet to make valid assertions.

10% at least of infections cause long-term disability. We don’t know yet if it will be permanent. And if 80% of deaths are in the old (as in over sixty), those lives are also precious. And if 20% of deaths are in the middle-aged and young, that’s ca. 160,000 so far killed by it. I think it’s worth preventing. But it has to rely on group action, it’s not the sort of thing that everyone can make his own choice, as if he chose to flout the measures, he would be infecting others who would rather be protected.

The Vanderbilt Tennessee study shows a direct correlation: the higher the mask use, the lower the rate of hospitalization.

I agree that this farce is to force the dangerous vaccine on everyone. It would be better to promote the use of safe measures: D, C, zinc, HCQ, Ivermectin, antibiotic. But I agree with Jacinda Ardern; once you relinquish attempts to control the disease, it will be very difficult to do so once it has exploded even more and a lot of suffering and death will follow.

John Stone

Cia

The “data is the data”: that’s waffle, and anyhow it doesn’t support your claim - you haven’t found the data. You are still ducking and bringing up red-herrings (misrepresented reports from February and April which had nothing to do with it). Whatever the story of declining antibodies there is still only a small amount of evidence presently for re-infection. My guess is there probably will be medium term re-infection (or with mutations) . We have no idea how bad it will be. But you stated:

“Many people in the wor(l)d have been reinfected with Covid, and many of those had a worse or fatal case the second time.”

So far, this is a waste of time: please come back with something good if you are going too.

If you are not impressed with handkerchieves why are you impressed by masks? I went out in a plastic mask yesterday - it didn’t restrict my breathing at all, and it was just fine, but I don’t think it protected anybody else. I went out in a fabric mask on Monday which was too tight and I felt green by the time I got back. But in terms of public health I doubt whether either made a serious contribution.

Cia

John,

I had not finished. But data is data, regardless of when it was first published. I have more articles which I will try to put up. One new one finds that Covid immunity usually lasts at least five months. How often? How much past five months? At this time, even Fauci has said that immunity is not durable either from natural infection or, probably, the vaccine. It needs to be permanent to justify encouraging everyone to just get it and that will theoretically create herd immunity. It’s sort of like with the vaccine: do you really want to be a test subject and find out the hard way if the assertions are true?

https://news.vumc.org/2020/10/27/study-finds-areas-without-mask-requirements-have-larger-increase-in-covid-19-hospitalizations/

Brand new Vanderbilt study shows that in Tennessee there is a direct correlation between mask use and hospitalization. You could not possibly prevent the spread of Covid by telling people to cover their coughs, sneezes, singing, and talking with a handkerchief. Even the singing and talking have caused many deaths, as with the choir rehearsals and church attendance.

It would be an enormous field study if everyone were persuaded to give up all measures. You are banking on an uncertainty, that a large number of deaths and cases of disability would be justified if only permanent immunity were the result for the survivors.

Delay and measures have several advantages: the virus will probably evolve to become less virulent and people will learn to take D and zinc, and demand HCQ, ivermectin, with an antibiotic if hospitalized. Delay will flatten the curve, preventing hospitals from being overwhelmed as hundreds now are.

It’s likely all smoke and mirrors, but the US third quarter shows a record-breaking economic recovery. We’ll see. Thank you, Trump.

John Stone

Jim

I have been scrolling down trying to find the “not good quality” phrase. I would think net exhalation of breath with or without masks is going to be pretty similar but if someone is inadvertently exhaling infected aerosols into a mask I doubt whether it is going to be very good for them individually. An immediate thought.

Just to return something I said before. In the past if I felt I was about to cough in public I reached out a tissue to cover my mouth and it probably smothered most of the exhalation while the rest of the time I could breath comfortably. But now we are replacing one practice with another and we don’t have evidence. I am against doing things without evidence because there is nowhere it will end, as we have seen.

Jim Thompson

John,
Re: "this is not good quality "
The data presented so far indicates that Covid reinfection can happen but the chances of that are presently low. There will ample evidence for scientists to study in the future. Presently we have over one million dead world-wide from this Pandemic. And still there is debate over mitigation measures like wearing masks in indoor areas.

John Stone

Dear Cia

I don’t understand why you are suddenly unable to read. You have produced two reports dated respectively 19 February 2020 and 8 April 2020 when I thought we were supposed to be talking about the present situation (30-31 October). In the first report they were just discovering that patients who seemed to be recovering tragically suddenly got much worse, but this was not the second wave that we are talking about. In the second instance they are probably amplifying fragments of virus no longer active in patients who were probably already recovered. Again not what you were talking about.

I think the problem has been all along that this thing has so scared you that everything is turned into the deadliest threat in your mind and you are failing to read critically where there is much doubt and ambiguity - apart from the manifest bad faith and manipulation of the players who want to induce panic, and have even declared their objective of destroying society as we know it (and are already half way there). That’s how the world ends, as Vera has been telling us.

My own feeling is that while you often have wound people up on the blog with your distinct opinions over all these years - and that’s just fine - this is not good quality Cia Parker.

John

Cia

John,

Here’s another. I’ll have to do this on the computer instead.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-koreans-test-positive-20200408-ddyrrwlji5bjpnrp3rpqtfgkyu-story.html%3foutputType=amp

Cia

John,

I found several, but can only post one at a time on my phone.

https://nypost.com/2020/02/19/whistleblower-doctors-say-coronavirus-reinfection-even-deadlier/

Jim Thompson

Hera,

Yes the doses were higher than that for treatment of malaria. See the reference 2 of the NEJM appendix, page 3, figure 1 at

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.24.20078303v2.full.pdf

Hera

Hi Jim Thompson,
Thanks again for your response, However, the site you linked to would not open for me.

I have already verified what dosage was used for hydroxyxchloroquine in the Recovery study, using a previous site and information that you linked.

Patients allocated to hydroxychloroquine sulfate (200mg tablet containing 155mg base equivalent) received a loading dose of 4 tablets (800 mg) at zero and 6 hours, followed by 2 tablets (400 mg) starting at 12 hours after the initial dose and then every 12 hours for the next 9 days or until discharge (whichever occurred earlier) (see Supplementary Appendix)

Compared to; the highest known used dosage for acute malaria
https://reference.medscape.com/drug/plaquenil-hydroxychloroquine-sulfate-343205

There is a 6800mg difference over 9 days!!! Which imo, means the RECOVERY study only shows that if we use an excessively high dosage of of hydroxychloroquine, to treat people who are already sick, it is not therapeutic.( Who could have guessed?) And imo, this possibly killed some of these people.

If we triple the maximum highest dosage used of any drug; tylenol, ibuprofen, and particularly drugs with a long half life (Hydroxychlroquine has a half life of 28 days per a previous link) and give this to already sick people, then wouldn't death or serious injury be the expected result, regardless of their therapeutic potential at normal doses?

What I don't understand is why no one references the fact that the dosage is huge. Was it an error?

I like to believe in people, but imo, I find this study and its possible implications about medical incompetence, or possibly deliberate misconduct, staggering.

Jim Thompson

Hera,

Re: “dosages of hydroxychloroquine”

See “Selection of hydroxychloroquine dose… hydroxychloroquine sulfate tablets
(200mg salt: 155 mg base equivalent)…” at

https://www.nejm.org/doi/suppl/10.1056/NEJMoa2022926/suppl_file/nejmoa2022926_appendix.pdf

pages 22 through 37.


John Stone

Cia

But you know there is nothing here which remotely documents your statement:

“Many people in the wor(l)d have been reinfected with Covid, and many of those had a worse or fatal case the second time.”

John

Benedetta

The Lancet article:
Nevada 25 year old was sick April 18 - got two negative test in May, sick by mid May and in the hospital by June the 5th.

I question how effective were the test back at that time? March the CDC was hogging it all thus not many test were being done as well as very well. CDC was forced to let other in on the testing by April, and by May they found out that some like the test from China were bad.

The two different infections they said that the covid was genetic different, so this study says. I have to take their word for it cause I can't check out that myself.

It says: "Genetic discordance of the two SARS-CoV-2 specimens was greater than could be accounted for by short-term in vivo evolution. These findings suggest that the patient was infected by SARS-CoV-2 on two separate occasions by a genetically distinct virus"

I have read a lot of studies in my life all big eyed and believing them.

Stepping back here. I think that statement is more than they can prove? Maybe over stepping?

For example - the young man could have had two cold viruses at the same time. The poor guy has been sick for three months.

I don't know, anyone some where in the world can get something twice, that includes measles.
I had the small pox vaccine in the first grade, and then got the small pox from a vaccine. My mother got measles three times -- viral load I suppose from a bunch of second graders were just too great.

The other was immuno compromised. The other was in Israel - search the whole world - I am sure we can find something. Is it common though? That is what we want to know? . .

Cia

I read your Dutch article, Jim. It looks like different cases can go any of several ways. Immunity from natural infection may be very short. One second case was asymptomatic while one was fatal. I think all we can do is record data and eventually try to make sense of it.

vaxxus

Cia,

I think you are missing the point. Even if they were missing cases it's clear from their statistics that re-infection must be very rare and has not become a problem so far.

I think it will only be apparent 1-2 years from now who screwed up. It's a bit too early to decide.

I don't know many countries with a perfect response, I would say most made mistakes.

At the moment it looks like Macron and Merkel have initiated the economic self destruct program of the EU.

That being said, Sweden's excess mortality this year so far is comparable to many other harsher flu seasons they had. Clearly not what you would expect from a virus engineered to kill as many as possible.

It looks more like they had a very bad flu season. Not too bad for what is supposed to be a once in a century pandemic.

Hera

Hi Jim Thompson,
Thank you for your response. However, the Lancet/ Surgisphere study was retracted because a large number of scientists wrote in to protest the fact that the data base used almost certainly did not exist.

The replacement study that you quoted (The RECOVERY study) is the one with the extremely large dosages of hydroxychloroquine, which was published, has not been retracted, and which you included a link to. Could you comment on this, please?

Cia

The US has seen a 40% increase in cases in the last few weeks. Maybe that’s not important if a lot of those cases are mild. But hospitals in many states have been filled to capacity and are turning away patients. And that is important. A hospital in Idaho says it’s 99% full and will have to send incoming Covid patients to another state for treatment. Many states have opened field hospitals. And many are dying.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/23/us/covid-hospitalizations.html#click=https://t.co/FnEHvpDReL">https://t.co/FnEHvpDReL">https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/23/us/covid-hospitalizations.html#click=https://t.co/FnEHvpDReL

Cia

Jim Thompson,

I just zipped to the top to look at the number in your Lancet link and see that it is the same as mine. You had already put it up. Thank you!

Cia

John,

Another Lancet study I just found, on reinfection and it’s often being worse the second time. I’ll check in a minute to see if it’s the same that Jim Thompson put up.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30783-0/fulltext

Vaxxus,

Regardless of how good Sweden’s medical database may be, they have not tested every resident every week for active Covid or antibodies and that means they have no idea how many have gotten it or had a recurrence. Most cases are mild or asymptomatic, remember? Even when it kills, many never realize it was Covid, and it’s only seen on the excessive death charts. Sweden screwed up, buying into the myth that Covid was usually very mild and millions, the majority of the planet, had it in March and got immunity to it at that time. Oh, dear, who could blame them for buying into an obviously untrue fantasy which resulted in 6,000 human beings dying in agony from Covid?

Jim Thompson

Another possible reference:
https://www.dutchnews.nl/wpcms/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/ciaa1538.pdf

Benedetta

Floured. Lol. Fluoride

Jim Thompson

John,
Another possible reference:
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30764-7/fulltext

Benedetta

Thanks CIA for going through all the immune responses.
When I first started this journey a lot of parents were reporting T cell dysfunction in their kids

Some of them said they had a lot of T cells. Too much really

Now a days they are suggesting that aluminum in vaccines are messing up T cells

T stands got thymus
My understanding is all immunity starts in the thymus as children. Then it becomes smaller and useless as we get older. And all immunity is then taking place in the bone marrow
Then we have reports that the thymus is really still active. And can suddenly expand or collapse like a balloon.

Aluminum shuffles in with floured to the bones

spleen. That was once considered nothing. Like tonsils.

There are a lot of secret places isn’t there for memory cells to be stored ?

Jim Thompson

John,
re: reinfection
One source could be:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7528892/

vaxxus

"Though I guess it’s possible most have, but how would we prove it without extensive, exhaustive testing of billions?",

Cia,

Sweden has the best electronic medical record database in the world. So they can find re-infections easily.

It turned out that they found 1 case of a reinfection over a 6 month period. The re-infection was very mild.

Benedetta

Thank you Cia.
They test for IgM and IgG.
IgM when infected, and IgG shows up six weeks later.
Those are the only two that are checked for?
Is that a good indication of immunity?
Will I still have antibodies for the small pox or measles I had 60 years ago, or has my immune system stored it in some other way?

Do they know? Or are we still in the dark ages on this?

John Stone

Cia

I asked you for the source of this comment:

"Many people in the word have been reinfected with Covid, and many of those had a worse or fatal case the second time.”

We are all at this time very upset even if we do not share the same opinions, but if you say something you ought to be able back it up.

John

Cia

John,

How often do scientific articles describe an apocalypse? Even if literally countless millions were to die, as happened with the Black Plague and the Spanish Flu, it still wouldn’t reach me the dimensions of the Apocalypse.

It is true that the PCR test was set too high at 40. 30 would be more accurate and identify cases of real sickness. But I think it is not true that 40 level asymptomatic cases can’t spread it. I think they can and that is why cases are exploding virtually everywhere to an unprecedented degree. I changed my mind on this. I don’t see how cases (and even a 40 cycle asymptomatic case still shows presence of the virus) can explode by a factor of ten in some places for no obvious reason otherwise.

Many scientific articles have shown that reinfection can occur and has occurred. Many have shown that ADE has been shown to occur with Covid. No one knows how often. I think the important thing is that hundreds of hospitals are being overwhelmed, and we should observe the measures in order to reverse this situation.

greyone

It has been estimated that hundreds of millions globally have been infected.
Dr Scott Atlas, in the Unherd interview from oct 20, said there have been 5 cases of reinfection.
There is apparently, significant immunity.

Cia

Lecture on Covid and dengue and ADE

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UKmBHuAe_gU

Cia

Vaxxus,

The vast majority of the world’s population have not gotten it a first time. Though I guess it’s possible most have, but how would we prove it without extensive, exhaustive testing of billions? How many people have had at least two viral illnesses this year, two or more of which were covid, if the truth were known? How many had a worse or fatal case the second time? How would we know?

The young protesters here shouted that ICUs were empty. How would they know? France just said its ICUs we’re nearly at capacity. Same for here in El Paso, Salt Lake City, and many more. Kansas City hospitals have turned away ambulances this past week because they have no more room.

Cia

Science is Pure,

I think it’s still a matter of not much being known yet. We don’t even have solid evidence of a first infection protecting against reinfection by the same strain six months later. Or a year or two years later. Or one month later.

And any statement of most not being susceptible to infection to start wth would be difficult to prove, but the fact that hundreds or thousands of cities this month worldwide are seeing record-breaking numbers of infections would seem to indicate that everyone should take measures to slow the spread. Number one measure being that everyone should take vitamin D3 every day. We take 5,000 IU. And then reprise the now-familiar measures until we have a better grip.

John Stone

Cia

Thanks but I don’t see any respect in which they support your apocalyptic claims, do you?

Cia

One of many available.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2020.01120/full

Cia

John,

Here’s one that I just found.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30764-7/fulltext

The key phrase is Not much is known. Many people have been reinfected. Many have had a worse or fatal case the second time. I remember a Chinese man back in Feb, tested positive two separate times, died the second time. I’ll look for an article on ADE.

Science is pure.

This first article talks about reinfection. There are a few hundred cases of patients who have seemingly recovered only to be hit by the illness again, but only a handful of cases where the virus has been identified as genetically distinct from the original infection. It is of course possible that there could be many more such cases that have gone unidentified.

The second article gives reason to hope that the percentage of the population susceptible to infection may not be very high, although there are no hard figures yet.

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/more-sars-cov-2-reinfections-reported-but-still-a-rare-event-68089?utm_campaign=TS_DAILY%20NEWSLETTER_2020&utm_medium=email&_hsmi=98347567&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-_6DnZR3Dqm1ENzleG_5DomNEGVzWUNKBX3OcNLlBgVEBfBvCUjj5yLGi1zYbQXl_NoYzAd1p1946UzxJj6Gfv0r0byhA&utm_content=98347567&utm_source=hs_email

https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-35331/v1

vaxxus

" Many people in the word have been reinfected with Covid, and many of those had a worse or fatal case the second time. "

Cia,

There have been 50 million infections globally but just a handful of documented cases of re-infections. That's 1 in 1 million.

Some of these cases were worse some were much milder. There is no clear pattern here that suggests a worse second infection.

How can one claim that this shows we don't develop immunity?

Almost 50 million people worldwide who didn't get reinfected. The best vaccines have a success rate of 95%. We don't claim that these vaccines don't prevent reinfection because they didn't always work.

John Stone

" Many people in the word have been reinfected with Covid, and many of those had a worse or fatal case the second time. "

Cia, what is the source?

Cia

Benedetta,

At this time, no one knows much about Covid immunity. Antibodies often/usually fade quickly, sometimes in weeks, maybe several months. No one knows what happens after that. You may still have t-cell immunity, but it’s not easy to test for it. Many people in the word have been reinfected with Covid, and many of those had a worse or fatal case the second time. For many years they said there was no cold vaccine because there were so many different viruses which caused colds. Which can be caused by rhino viruses, adenoviruses, or coronaviruses. Now they say that in the case of coronaviruses, the antibodies wear off quickly and you can be reinfected, and THAT’S the reason they can’t make a cold vaccine. On the other hand, they say may SARS survivors still had antibodies many years later. Also true that hard-hit places like NY do not yet seem to be being hit hard again. Yet. Milan is being hit hard again.

I’d say you shouldn’t put too much trust in your immune system’s ability to cope with this. Probably better to put your trust in Ivermectin.

Jim Thompson

Hera,
See the "Re: retraction from Lancet" post later on.

Cia

Benedetta,

Every disease is different. Measles antibodies from the natural disease are nearly always for life. Flu gives permanent immunity to the specific strains you’ve had, as in H1 and N1, partial immunity if you get H1N2. Although there are minor variations that can still result in sickness. Mumps and usually diphtheria give permanent immunity. Pertussis used to, but if you get the shot before the disease, then not, because of original antigenic sin.

Dengue has four different kinds. I think you get permanent immunity to the kind you get, but if you get one of the others, it’s much more severe, even fatal, because of antibody-enhanced immunity. Those diseases make having antibodies from the natural disease or from a vaccine dangerous if you’re ever exposed to something similar again. And it makes it hard to make a vaccine for it for the same reason. This type of disease includes coronaviruses, dengue, Ebola, HIV, RSV, and others.

Hera

Hi Jim Thompson,
I would really appreciate it if you would address my earlier post, pointing out the huge dose increase used in the RECOVERY hydroxyxhloroquine trial, compared with all other uses of the medication.( By the way, after rechecking my math, it should be 6.5 x 800mg , not times 400mg, so the amount of hydroxychoroquine used in the trial is 6800mg larger, than the highest dosage used in acute treatment of malaria. And you can also note the extremely long half life of hydroxychloroquine.
( You can see the math breakdown in the comment below.)
Also, your study re masks is only referencing droplets, which as John Stone pointed out, a good handkerchief or tissue would also reduce. It does not seem to demonstrate anything at all about reducing airborne viral particles.
Of course, we have everyone going to the grocery stores, with COVID lasting for 28 days on some surfaces, and if there are indeed asymptomatic carriers, then probably at any given time some of the shelf stockers, and checkout people already have it, and are passing it on to you with every can and food item they handle and put in a bag.
It seems at least to me that at this point, with a contagious illness that has already spread globally, that you cannot tell who has it, that lasts for 28 days on some surfaces, where the virus is airborne as well as carried on droplets, the infectious cat is already well and truly out of the bag, and cannot be put back inside. Our doctor said in summer that he wished the powers that be would just let it burn out in summer, rather than keep flattening the curve until we had respiratory illnesses combined with cold weather, combined with the flu, to fight all at once. And we can already see the unintended consequences of the quarantine, where hospitals in Utah can no longer staff their ICU's at full capacity, in part because their nurses are now at home with their children, who can't go to school...
We can tank our economy, but at this point, it seems we aren't actually saving lives, since with only 112 ICU cases in Salt Lake City on Saturday, the state of Utah, with a population of 3.206 million, can't maintain staff at the ICU, and are already talking about future plans of possibly letting some people die... it is a good thing they haven't ever had a large plane crash there , if they now have such an incredibly small capacity to treat people.
John Stone; I loved your comment about closing your eyes and thinking it meant people can't see you..Beautifully put.

Benedetta

Well I am really disappointed in our immune systems that if we are lucky to fight it off once; our antibodies won't stick around long.

So how long do antibodies stick around for other diseases? Like flu, and colds and stuff?

Do we have antibodies roaming around in our blood streams for every thing we ran across in our life time?

John Stone

It does strike me that we used to use tissues and handkerchieves which held in the hand and focussed on individual coughs and sneezes might actually be more effective at smothering the progress of droplets. Probably, if you are coughing you should not be out. What of course we have never had is the terror of people who are asymptomatic and I really don’t find some of the claims about that credible.

I also find absurd being asked to use hand-pump disinfectant all the time. The other day I was at hospital where I was always pleased to use an automatic dispenser and was asked to use a hand-pump touched by several hundred people!!! It leads to the feeling that we are just doing things mindlessly.

Morag

www.pulsetoday.co.uk.
Article Who you gonna call?[not me,please ] 22 October 2020
Essex GP states- I ,likeyou,and like everyone else except rabid -anti-vaxxers [and hey,don't worry,natural selection will eventually sort them out ,it's just that evolution is so damned slow]

Ach well ! "Code of Conduct, forensic/cultural flunkies, on full public display!"
Some of these "burnt out?" Wee Jimmys ,need tae get back tae basic training modules , 3 month secondement tae the bed-pan preperation area .Then resit their exams on how tae spot the difference between a patient, a person, and a human being!.
And also,
www.gponline.com
GP online .GP Magazine News , medical education, CPD and.....
Article - States - RCGP "livid" over attacks on general practice from "armchair critics"
22 October 2020.
Wow, and still no basic Health and Safety risk assessment available for people wearing surical masks and or face coverings ,as basick risk assessment UK not done yet!

lockdownsceptics.org.
Lockdown Sceptics -Stay Sceptical ,Control the Hysteria .
Interesting articles/ Links to studies.

www.youtube.com>watch
The message Runrig You Tube .
Rough winter ahead ?.
Ship at sea version !.
Choppy waters ahead ,strong tail winds,dizzy head winds with a force 9 plus howler! blowing down from "The North Quarter ?"
Some may ,some could ,some will , some won't , need a sick bucket!

Jim Thompson

John,

Here is a study that provides a report on mitigation of airborne respiratory droplets and a “summary of the different types of masks tested, the materials they are made of, and their effectiveness in impeding droplet-dispersal.”

https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0016018

Donna L.

HA! I love this, John: "As a small child I was absolutely convinced that if I closed my eyes other people could not see me, and it all seems to be a bit like that."
I was thinking that the whole big mess has a sort of "Jesus is coming. Look busy" feel to it, but I think you summed it up even better!

John Stone

Back in August the British government’s deputy Chief Medical Officer, Jenny Harries, admitted at a No 10 briefing that the evidence on masks was not strong,

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/uknews/video-2239200/Video-Dr-Jenny-Harries-Evidence-face-coverings-isnt-strong.html

so what did they do they - they immediately made them compulsory, which was about as logical as everything else they’ve done. And we have just had the Gates/IMHE paper in Nature which also does not provide any evidence, and Jim Thompson graciously admitted it didn’t, below. When powerful interests publish not good evidence we must assume that the good evidence does not exist. We have seen this again and again from these people. Nor is it obvious at the level of logic that a porous piece of fabric, which you can breath through will impede the flow of minute particles usefully, though it may give the feel of taking action. But it is not good science and I don’t think we should act just because it feels good to some people. As a small child I was absolutely convinced that if I closed my eyes other people could not see me, and it all seems to be a bit like that.

Cia

Salt Lake City hospitals being flooded with Covid, will probably have to start triage next week. To be fair, it says it will be by friendly conversation, saying Look, you’ve been getting —- and you’ve been in the hospital since —, and you’re not getting better. How would you feel if...?

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/10/25/with-coronavirus-cases/

vaxxus

Cia,

The reason why cases are spiking again in Europe is because of the suppression strategy they followed. They have shifted cases from the summer to the flu season and will experience a bigger second wave in the winter as a result.

SARS was not a pandemic because it wasn't very infectious and caused only few cases. Other respiratory pandemics ended because enough people became immune and it didn't take too long for this to happen.

Why do you think it will be different this time?

Unless a highly effective vaccine becomes available soon enough to save us this pandemic will end just like the other pandemics we have seen in the past century.

Cia

Vaxxus,

I made a mistake: measles immunity was 99% in those over 18, but there were always new children to infect, so herd immunity was in 99% minus the percentage in the population of non-immune kids. They calculate, without sound knowledge, a different percentage for every disease to suppose herd immunity. Usually 60-90% of the population. They have tried, again, without backing, to say that whatever percentage they choose for Covid herd immunity, to say that between natural immunity, cold-like common mild coronaviruses, and t-cell immunity, that we’ve already reached it. But obviously with our current explosions, we have not. Or the natural recovery just doesn’t mean what it means in the case of other diseases. We’ll need time to learn about this, and not draw conclusions in the meantime.

And I don’t think the ulterior motives of politicians etc. matter. Everyone is capable of protecting himself, with a t-shirt tied over his face if nothing else. We already know what liars and self-promoters many politicians, media minions, and health care professionals are. Don’t take their unsubstantiated word for anything.

Cia

Vaxxus,

I didn’t deny that herd immunity has existed and continues to exist for any diseases. In 1963, before the measles vaccine, 99% of kids got it by the age of 18 and in nearly all cases had immunity for life. Herd immunity for the majority.

I said that we do not know if this will apply to covid. So far it looks as though antibodies do not last long. We don’t know yet what that will mean, but we should not make assumptions on Covid based on past events involving different diseases. Some diseases give permanent immunity while others don’t, whether because of different strains or immunity wearing off. We need to wait several years before saying that Sweden will be relatively Covid-free. And even then you’d have to say whether throwing six thousand lives away in Sweden was worth it, or if the NZ, Singapore, Korea way was better, which I do.

And it’s not true that only herd immunity ends pandemics. SARS disappeared less than a year after it had begun, with no effective mass control measures being implemented. Asians sensibly wore masks, but not in the Western countries to which it spread. And even with 99% of the population immune to measles, it still broke out every other year.

English sweating sickness in the sixteenth century killed many thousands, but late in the century just disappeared, after having ravaged France and England for two hundred years. Why did it not become endemic like measles or flu?

We don’t know the answers to these questions. But the US and U.K. has had higher cases and deaths per million than Sweden, so by your theory we should have herd immunity now, and it’s what many said this summer. What Trump (whom I like) meant when he said the whole problem goes back to too much testing, assuming that only old, mild cases were being discovered in antibody tests. Yet now we’re seeing hospital systems overwhelmed again. I read about El Paso and Salt Lake City yesterday. Not old, mild cases, but new, often serious cases in very large numbers. If you are wrong and people follow your advice, many thousands will die.

It is certainly much harder to control a pandemic if you don’t act early to cut it off at the pass. But starting to act prudently at any point will improve outcomes. It would be insane to make every effort to give the disease free rein to get the horrible mass deaths over with as soon as possible.

Benedetta

vaxxus:
Cia is not the only one that believes this.
My poor sister-in-law after she got better said her doctor said she was immune to it now. I responded that of coarse you are, honey. She said, but a lot of people are still scared of us; like we can get it again and we are carriers, and we will never be rid of it.

And then a nurse told me that she had covid, and she said that her son, had it too - and in his job ; and no I don't know what important job he had up in the big city of Chicago, but (well he would know because of what ever that job was) said we can get it again. When I questioned her on that one- she said well it mutates so fast, so they say.


There is a lot of mis information out there being used to scare the masses? That is what the powers that be -- wants.

Which makes me believe one of those crazy things that they are talking about that I guess now they are lumping together under some strange name of Qanon or what ever.. I suspect that really in truly that Gate, WHO, Fauci and a bunch of really smart ilk did release it on purpose along with tall tales about it. .

Wasn't born yesterday

"isolate the vulnerable individuals"
vaxxus no.
sincerely,
senior citizen who knows this will lead to isolate or vazzinate policy

vaxxus

Cia,

Why do you believe herd immunity doesn't exist with this virus? All pandemics ended because of herd immunity.

Hospitals in Sweden are nearly empty. No one wears masks, life is almost back to normal.

Their all-cause mortality this year doesn't look much worse than some other harsh flu seasons we have seen in the past 20 years.

How do you explain that if

a) herd immunity isn't possible
b) this was an engineered virus designed to kill and infect as many as possible

It looks like immunity is going to happen regardless of what strategy we follow unless we manage to keep cases near zero which most countries fail to do.

China may seem like a success story but apparently they have local back and forth lockdowns that could go on for a long time. I don't think most countries could manage Chinese style lockdowns.

Who knows how long they will be able to control the situation?

Also once the virus is widespread like it is in most countries, it's too late to eliminate it completely all you can do is try to manage it, flatten the curve, isolate the vulnerable individuals, damage control essentially.

John Stone

Cia

Oh yes we will have people without jobs, homes or food. The clear out has already begun - there are of course measures but these have already been reduced and national debts are being extended beyond imagination. We know that. At this stage it is hard to know how cultural hubs like London and New York will ever be viable again. Our children’s futures are mortgaged. We all had to bail out the banks for their criminal follies in 2008 but that was a picnic in comparison.

John

Cia

Jim Thompson,

Thank you for those article you linked, with three projections of deaths and this winter depending on degree of mask use. I agree. Masks keep your germs in and other people’s germs out. Any which may deep in around he edges would be likely to give your immune system minimal exposure and help it learn how to respond to it.

Cia

Vaxxus,

You don’t know that the countries which acted effectively have only postponed their date with death. As long as they keep up border controls and pounce on the few cases which pop up immediately, using test, trace, isolate, as they are, they will continue keeping it under control.

And John, you do not know that the measures will cause mass starvation. They haven’t yet. The stores are full. I think mass starvation will be averted, at least in the developed world.

And neither of you knows that just letting tens of thousands of people die, maybe far more, we’re at over 200,000 now, and that’s WITH most taking measures, will solve the problem with natural herd immunity for the survivors. It is not only a new disease but a bioengineered one, state of the art for enhanced transmissibility and pathogenicity. It is too soon to know much of anything. In Europe cases went down very low in the summer and many thought that showed that nearly everyone had already gotten at least a mild case and was now immune. But now we see that that was not the case, it’s come back worse than ever and new lockdowns are either here or in sight for everyone.

The US could have done like NZ, when the first cases showed up here on the West Coast at the end of Feb, they could have cracked down immediately and contained it. The way the successful countries did. Mongolia is another success story, it just heard and read about the cases in China, and, thinking that it didn’t have a good modern medical system, decided it had better prevent it from getting in. And it successfully did so, closing the border, masks, etc. I didn’t check last night, but last time I did it had had no deaths.

Certain circles have put all their hopes into a ghoulish confidence that the death of huge numbers will enable permanent immunity in the majority, yet there’s no reason to believe that’s the case. I believe, like the successful countries, that it’s better to choke the disease off with the measures. It would have been better to do it in Feb, but all we can do is the best we can now.

I put up a link yesterday to an article about El Paso’s medical system being crashed at this time by Covid, the city is under curfew. Last night I read a more detailed article about Salt Lake City’s being similarly crashed, its medical system overwhelmed by Covid. Certain circles have spent months mocking this turn of events, saying testing was silly, that in itself it found supposed cases which were of no importance, that nearly everyone already had immunity from a natural undiagnosed case in March, a similar cold-type case of CV which gave cross-immunity, or unidentified t-cell immunity. Another huge wave of Covid cases and deaths was said never to be a danger.

Yet now it’s happening. Largely because of the sneerers who refused to observe the measures. So now the argument has shifted to Just let huge numbers die for the greater good, with presumed, unsubstantiated permanent immunity for the survivors? With the excuse that the good of the economy should take precedence over human life? It seems like a made-up trope grasped when the presumed universal herd immunity already narrative proved to be inaccurate.

Hans Litten

JDS, I found this one of the most incredible interviews I have ever witnessed, including her scratch of the nose with her red Tom Hanx ring (there must be no autism in NZ I presume, if they are so trustworthy):

"Instead, I want to send a clear message to the New Zealand public: We will share with you the most up-to-date information daily. You can trust us as a source of information.
"You can also trust the Director-General of Health [Dr Ashley Bloomfield] and the Ministry of Health."
The Prime Minister pointed to the Government's website dedicated to providing information about the coronavirus spread: www.covid19.govt.nz, and said to "dismiss anything else" you may see online.
"We will continue to be your single source of truth and we will provide information frequently. We will share everything we can. Everything else you see [take with] a grain of salt."

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/03/coronavirus-jacinda-ardern-dismisses-rumours-being-spread-on-social-media-about-covid-19.html

Hans Litten

Posted by: Cia | October 24, 2020 at 11:26 AM

If the PCR tests are fake, with the ridiculous 40+ cycles, then there is absolutely no proof anyone has had cv1984 at all. The Govt statistics here in the UK & Ireland suggest no change whatsoever from previous years.
Indeed there are various protagonists who are ripping apart the govts fake data (Mark Oakford).
Kary Mullis declared many years ago, PCR cannot be used to detect infectious disease.
The Cv1984 has never been isolated and therefore proven according to Kochs postulates.
Lots of science is saying the fake tests are returning up to 80% false positives.

What we do know is that last years flu vaccine was changed from the historical substrate of chicken cells to MDCK dog kidney cells (& dogs & cats are notoriously riddled with corona viruses). So viral interference is a very real possibility for those fools who take the seasonal flu vaccine. I may misundersatand viral interfernce but it seems very alike to Charles Richet nobel prize for anaphalyxsis.

Last Autumn I did also contract a very unusual cough that lasted up to 8 weeks, and the colleague who sat next to me was a poor innocent recipient of that free flu vaccine.

Angus Files

The disease continues to spread alledgedly despite the mask wearing,masks are doing the job then?As John points out its been around for a while longer being ticked off under flu and they knew all along well China and Fucie for a start did.As Trump said the other night you switch on on your TV and all you here is CORONA CORONA CORONA CORONA come the 10th we wont here another word about it..

Pharma For Prison

MMR RIP

John Stone

My Jacinda clip was no doubt very unkind by while I am mad at the British government I am sickened by the opportunistic virtue signalling by opposition parties which keeps them on course in their Attila-like destruction of every human norm in their path - notably the zero COVID strategy in Scotland of Nicola Sturgeon egged on by Devi Sridhar. When Freddie Sayers at Unherd interviewed Sridhar they ended up (under what pressure?) removing 4-500 comments (there are only 9 left). These were not Daily Mail type comments at all but educated people who were very fed up.

https://unherd.com/2020/08/the-zerocovid-debate-can-the-disease-be-eliminated/

vaxxus

Cia,

NZ, Singapore etc. did not win the fight against the virus. They postponed it. The only thing that can save them at this point is an effective vaccine which will probably never come.

For most countries shutting them off was already too late or simply not feasible.

Sweden's hospitals are empty with around 10% population having serum antibodies.

In the US and UK close to 10% of the population have antibodies.

Iceland discovered that 90% of people who test positive will develop certain antibodies lasting at least months, while other serum antibodies, the ones that we measure in studies will decline after a few weeks.

That means that far more people have been infected than traditional antibody tests suggest.

In the US 30-40% of people could have been infected already.

Flattening the curve will only delay what can't be avoided, it can make sense to prevent the healthcare system from collapsing and maybe mask can reduce the viral load and decrease the severity of an infection but it's unlikely that you can save people from becoming infected over the long term.

The battle was lost in February already. We are now destroying economies and societies because we refuse to accept the reality of what has happened and are being held hostage by fear.

John Stone

South Korea is a remarkable story but the reality is that this disease was all over the world long before anyone knew, apart the Chinese government and Dr Fauci - it quite likely was confused with flu in many places last winter and Washington State was perhaps only a couple of weeks behind Wuhan in manifesting as as an epidemic. Of course, at the beginning of an outbreak you might want to hunt down every last case because eradication might still be possible, and I suppose in certain places it is still possible with closed borders. By and large the endgame globally is that disease is endemic and we have to learn to live with it, but endless mass testing will end in endless mass starvation, frankly - and life goose-stepping to Klaus Schwab and the World Economic Forum (where they love the Chinese government),

Cia

John,

It’s not the case that Covid has just been one of those things that we have to live with. You found the tweet making fun of beautiful, virtuous, compassionate Jacinda Ardern amusing. Why? She took quick and decisive action, saved tens of thousands of lives, and eradicated Covid from her island. Why is this bad? Why is it laughable? Your group seems to think it’s not sporting to resist a deadly disease. That it causes economic devastation and mass starvation. And yet New Zealand is flourishing, no economic devastation, no starvation. What was its secret? Closed borders, forced quarantine, masks, social distancing, test, trace, and isolate. New Zealand has had 1,941 cases, 25 deaths, 5 deaths per million. Let’s look at the other success stories, all in the Far East. Singapore: 57,973 cases, 28 deaths, 5 dpm. South Korea: 26,043 cases, 486 deaths, 9 dpm. Taiwan: 550 cases, 7 deaths, 0.3 dpm. Vietnam too, but I forgot to look up its figures. How did they do it? Same way NZ did.

Now. US: 8,962,586 cases, 231,045 deaths, 697 dpm. UK: 894,690 cases, 89,171 deaths, 662 dpm. Your role model: Sweden: 110,594 cases, 5,933 deaths, 586 dpm. The reason? Laziness, pride, cowardice, carelessness, sense of entitlement. The result? I’m too tired to enumerate it. But notice that NZ, Singapore, Taiwan, and Korea have no need of a vaccine. No one is trying to foist it on them. Because they acted wisely and with discipline. And I’m sure they are willing for vile braggarts in the West to snipe at them and mock them till the cows come home, because they saved their countries and their people when no end is in sight for us.

John Stone

Quite apart from the analysis we learn that they are illegally withholding much of the real data

https://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/10/27/latest-news-175/#is-the-nhs-in-danger-of-being-overwhelmed

The purpose is going to be to facilitate the roll of vaccines, the continued suspension of law, ultimately the Great Reset.

Lord Sumption is to denounce the government and the suspension of legality in a speech to the Cambridge law faculty

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8882273/Former-judge-brands-coronavirus-curbs-tyrannical.html

Northern Conservative MPs rebel against government

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8881755/FIFTY-Northern-Tory-MPs-demand-roadmap-lockdown-Boris-Johnson-faces-red-wall-revolt.html

John Stone

Cia

We've always had to live with disease and it is only a slightly different permutation. We have fewer acute respiratory illnesses than this time last year in the UK. The government don't give a damn about ordinary people - we could all drop dead, only it suits them. I have never seen a politician less credible than Matt Hancock but he just goes on and on. Ferguson was spouting rubbish and if you don't like how the Swedes played it, it does not exemplify any of his theories. Meanwhile, our leaders keep on sabotaging attempts to improve nutritional supplements, deliberately sent 25k elderly people to premature death, push dangerous vaccines....

Cia

John,

I saved this tweet featuring Jacinda Ardern saying that she never, ever considered just sacrificing the lives of New Zealanders. It is extremely moving.

Momentum 🌹 (@PeoplesMomentum) Tweeted:
The difference is shocking.

#Covid19UK #BorisResign #JacindaArdern https://t.co/WIjGfOjrDm

Cia

John,

I think this is a much greater threat than what we’ve been tolerating all our lives. You saw this, that between Feb and May in the US Covid was the third leading cause of death, after heart disease and cancer.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/covid-19-compared-to-other-common-us-causes-of-death-2020-5%3famp

In the UK it was the fourth leading cause of death, after cancer, heart disease and strokes. More Americans were dying of Covid than strokes. It has been the only major cause of death which was contagious and easily preventable.

I think Jacinda Ardern has done a splendid job eliminating Covid in New Zealand, and many owe their lives to her.

Again, it’s not a question of Ignore it and everything will go back to normal. We don’t have any reason to believe that. And if chaos and mass death ensue, it would be impossible to put that genie back in the bottle. The intensified viral load in the environment could kill even the young and healthy, like the young doctors we’ve seen die of it. At the very least it would be after an unknown period of terror and painful deaths for many thousands. We don’t know how long immunity may last. They say maybe only weeks, at be four months. Don’t know if reinfection will be milder or worse because of antibody-dependent enhancement.

El Paso is overwhelmed by Covid right now, curfew from ten am to five. I don’t think it’s responsive to say Just let them die, then we can all get back to normal. I am unaware of anyone starving to death in developed countries during the pandemic. The stores are full of food. I recognize that it’s a problem, but if necessary the government could print out billions more, commandeer the food, and distribute it to the hungry.

I don’t think it is seemly to mock Jacinda Ardern for acting so nobly to protect New Zealand.

How many have killed themselves over Covid? I doubt that it’s anything like the over a million killed by the disease.

Cia

Just an example of how the situation is deteriorating in many places.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/10/26/el-paso-texas-curfew-installed-covid-19-patients-flood-hospitals/6040309002/?for-guid=b938dbf2-53ff-11ea-ad83-121d6c06421b&itm_source=usatoday-Coronavirus%20Watch&itm_medium=email&itm_campaign=baseline_greeting&itm_term=newsletter_greeting

El Paso is having an explosion of both cases and hospitalizations. It has declared curfew hours. A temporary medical treatment center has been set up in a public building and it is flying out many patients for treatment. This is what flattening the curve was conceived to prevent. You just can’t say Let’s all just get back to normal and forget the whole thing. If large numbers do, it will just make the coming lockdowns more severe.

Science is pure.

Jim - the evidence points to Hydroxychloroquine being effective in early stage treatment, Dr. Zelenko who was one of the first to use it observed that it had to be started within five days of symptoms, and a number of studies have been done around the world backing his observations. The study you have linked was in a hospital setting at a much later stage of disease.

It is not just Hydroxychlroroquine that has been effective, another antiviral in widespread use in the Indian subcontinent and Latin America is Ivermectin, which has had a successful clinical trial in Bangladesh, but has been hard to study because so many of the population were already taking it before the health authorities were initiating trials.

The bureaucracy has been slow to react to the idea of early intervention on a viral infection which has not been the standard of care in the past, with a few exceptions such as rabies, which is why the WHO studied patients only in hospital settings. That has perhaps been the biggest failure of all since an effective treatment being implemented on a widespread basis six months ago would both have saved a lot of lives as well as precluding the need to lock down the population.

It would also have course have precluded the opportunity to sell Remdesevir for $3000+ per patient, and the chance to sell seven billion doses of a vaccine, or better still fourteen billion doses, for several hundred dollars each.

John Stone

The point that we are doing is elevating something which is a relative threat such as we have tolerated in our lives all the time to the level of absolute threat - there are many things that might kill us and it is certain that something will in the end. I am genuinely apprehensive about COVID but I am more worried about the powerful people who want us to live in a state of fear and apathy.

Cia

Going for broke, but will keep it short. In USa, it’s become common to say about this situation that it’s YOLO, you’re on your own. Meaning that regardless of what the government, health, and education authorities do, every person must do his own research. We’ve been taking 5,000 IU D3 and 500 mg of zinc since March, in addition to our multi vitamin, and that may be too much. Wearing masks since then too. This is already going haywire

Cia

Jim Thompson,

Fourth times’s the charm. The Lancet study was NOT retracted because of any official sense of responsibility. Over a hundred scientists joined to write an open letter to The Lancet about the obviously fraudulent figures used in the Surgisphere study. Richard Horton had said yes, The Lancet was compelled to publish what Big Pharma wanted, what could it do?

John Stone

Cia

There is no magic way out and spending money on that scale which will certainly be necessary one way or another will still have most devastating consequences and the only certain result will be economic death, starvation, homelessness, population displacement. Track and trace is a disaster at every level.

I am afraid I enjoyed this take on Jacinda

https://twitter.com/Charliefarliboy/status/1313207067759566849?s=20

Nor can you compare places New Zealand and Norway with industrial countries (even Sweden). However, you pick away at Sweden it in no way justifies Ferguson’s lies, which I have been posting about.

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