Healthy People Wearing Masks, Should They or Shouldn’t They?
Note: Thank you to Jennifer Margulis, PhD for the excerpt of a letter posted on her website by Patricia Neuenschwander to her grandchild's preschool, after the school suggested that the young students must wear masks.
About Patricia Neuenschwander: Patricia Neuenschwander, MSN, RN, CPNP-PC, is a board-certified pediatric nurse practitioner. A registered nurse for over 25 years, she is the co-founder, co-owner, and CEO of Creating Brighter Futures, an ABA center, located in Ann Arbor, Michigan. She also currently serves as the office manager for Bio Energy Medical Center, a multidisciplinary group medical practice, which she joined in 2007. She worked as an emergency department nurse for over 17 years. She left emergency nursing to return to school to pursue a Master’s of Science in Nursing graduating Summa Cum Laude, from Wayne State University in 2014 from the pediatric nurse practitioner program in primary care. Tricia is a member of the State and National Association of Pediatric Nurses Practitioners. She is a member of Michigan For Vaccine Choice and the Children’s Health Defense organization. Her passion lies in advocating for and promoting the health of all children. On a personal note, Tricia is married with 3 children and 3 step-children, as well as 4 grandchildren, one dog, and one cat. She enjoys boating, yoga, and researching vaccine safety.
Healthy People Wearing Masks, Should They or Shouldn’t They?
Healthy people wearing masks. These days you see them everywhere. But according to Patricia Neuenschwander, M.S.N., R.N., C.P.N.P.-P.C., an emergency room nurse with over two decades of experience, the science doesn’t support healthy people wearing masks. When Neuenschwander found out that her grandchild’s Montessori preschool was going to require even toddlers to wear masks, she did a deep dive into the research to better educate herself and her grandchild’s school about mask-wearing.
The following is a version of the letter Patricia Neuenschwander sent to the preschool administrators.
Should Healthy People Be Wearing Masks During This COVID-19 Crisis?
By Patricia Neuenschwander, M.S.N., R.N., C.P.N.P.-P.C.
In the process of making decisions one must evaluate the options, including the risks and benefits of the recommendation. While there is considerable debate about this subject, because of the current coronavirus situation, healthy people are being told by government officials to wear masks. To evaluate this recommendation, we have to ask some commonsense questions:
- What are the risks of serious complications or death from COVID-19?
- What are the benefits—using science and data—of healthy people wearing masks to prevent spreading a virus?
- What are the risks to healthy people wearing masks?
Risk of death from coronavirus
Looking at risk of death from this novel coronavirus, we need to look at real numbers. The models and predictions have not been shown to be accurate. The population in the United States is approximately 326,700,000. As of May 9, 76,934 have been reported to die from COVID, as a complication of it, or with it. Using the real numbers of people potentially at risk (as we all are) and the number of these deaths, it works out to be 0.00023 or 0.023% of the population. That is essentially a 0% death rate in the general population.
It looks like the death rate from this is higher because not everybody has been exposed, so the death rate is higher in those known to be exposed. The problem is we don’t know how many have been exposed. Without an accurate denominator, we don’t really know the risk of dying if you become infected.
However, several studies show most people infected have mild to no symptoms and fully recover. A few recent studies looking at populations with real data of people who were infected, that did not have symptoms or receive treatment, have shown the death rate to be much lower than previously reported.
Because most of the people tested were sick or were at a very high risk of infection based on exposure, we have no idea how many fully recovered. We do know that older adults and people who have severe underlying medical conditions (like heart or lung disease or diabetes) seem to be at higher risk for developing serious complications from COVID-19 illness.
As none of these risk factors are applicable to healthy children, children with no underlying health issues remain at an extremely low risk of being seriously affected or dying from this infection.
I have no qualms with people at high risk staying home or wearing a mask in public to try to protect themselves from contracting this infection. I do have qualms about healthy people wearing masks, asking them to partake in an intervention that has not shown to benefit anyone (using science and data) and can potentially cause harm.
Does wearing a mask help prevent coronavirus infection?
An important study using science to evaluate cloth mask use to prevent infection was conducted in March 2011. It is a large, prospective, randomized clinical trial; and the first randomized clinical trial ever conducted of cloth masks. The international team of researchers concluded:
This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated.”
This study doesn’t provide evidence for effectiveness in high-risk populations; it certainly does not support healthy people wearing cloth masks.
More recently, researchers from University of Illinois at Chicago School of Public Health reviewed the scientific literature. While not an exhaustive review of masks and respirators as source control and personal protection equipment (PPE), this review was made in an effort to locate and review the most relevant studies of laboratory and real-world performance to inform our recommendations. The review, which has 52 citations, concludes:
We do not recommend requiring the general public who do not have symptoms of COVID-19-like illness to routinely wear cloth or surgical masks because:
- There is no scientific evidence they are effective in reducing the risk of SARS-CoV-2 transmission
- Their use may result in those wearing the masks to relax other distancing efforts because they have a sense of protection
- We need to preserve the supply of surgical masks for at-risk healthcare workers.
A 2020 study in Seoul, South Korea looked at the effectiveness of surgical and cotton masks in blocking COVID-19 in a controlled comparison of four patients. The COVID-infected patients were put in negative pressure isolated rooms. The scientists compared disposable surgical masks (3 layers) with reusable cotton masks.
Patients were instructed to cough 5 times while wearing no mask, surgical mask, or cotton mask. Interestingly, all swabs from the outer masks—including surgical masks—were positive for COVID-19. Inner masks were also found to be contaminated. That means the mask did not effectively filter out the COVID virus since it is too small. The authors assert:
Neither surgical nor cotton masks effectively filtered {COVID-19} during coughs by infected patients.” Conclusion: “both surgical and cotton masks seem to be ineffective in preventing the dissemination of SARS–CoV-2 from the coughs of patients with COVID-19 to the environment and external mask surface.”
The World Health Organization does not support healthy people wearing masks
The World Health Organization (WHO) has as its mission to direct international health within the United Nations’ system and to lead partners in global health responses. So what does the WHO recommend when it comes to healthy people wearing masks? “WHO stands by recommendation to not wear masks if you are not sick or not caring for someone who is sick.”
“There is no specific evidence to suggest that the wearing of masks by the mass population has any potential benefit,” Dr. Mike Ryan, an epidemiologist who specializes in infectious diseases and public health and who is the executive director of the WHO health emergencies program, said at a media briefing. “In fact, there’s some evidence to suggest the opposite in the misuse of wearing a mask properly or fitting it properly” (source).
The CDC’s mixed mask messages
According to the CDC, avoiding close contact with sick individuals; frequently washing your hands with soap and water; not touching your eyes, nose, or mouth with unwashed hands are effective prevention tips. The CDC also recommends covering your mouth and nose with a cloth face cover when around others, and practicing good respiratory hygiene (source). But here’s the rub. The CDC then goes on to say that the cloth face cover is meant to protect other people in case you are infected but there are no scientific citations to support that wearing a mask is effective at preventing you from spreading the virus to others. As a matter of fact, one of the reasons America’s surgeon general, Jerome Adams, M.D., M.P.H., said in an interview in March that masks can be dangerous is because people tend to touch their masks many times per hour and can spread the disease that way. A CNN News story that has since been removed from the internet had a headline that read: “Masks may actually increase your coronavirus risk if worn improperly, surgeon general warns” (click here to read it via the Wayback Machine):
You can increase your risk of getting it by wearing a mask if you are not a health care provider,” Adams said during an interview on Fox & Friends on Monday morning. “Folks who don’t know how to wear them properly tend to touch their faces a lot and actually can increase the spread of coronavirus,” Adams said. “We’re certainly seeing more spread in communities, but it’s important for folks to know that right now their risk as American citizens remains low. There are things people can do to stay safe. There are things they shouldn’t be doing and one of the things they shouldn’t be doing in the general public is going out and buying masks,” he said.
On a separate page, the CDC discusses masks. They write:
CDC recommends wearing cloth face coverings in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain (e.g., grocery stores and pharmacies), especially in areas of significant community-based transmission.”
However, there are no scientific citations provided to support this on that page. They go on to say that the recommendation has changed because they have figured out it is transmissible person to person.
These mixed messages are confusing. But what we know for sure is that the CDC knew from February 26 when the first community spread case documented in the U.S. that this virus was transmitted person to person; and not only was there no recommendation to wear a mask then, they strongly opposed the general public wearing masks.
Additionally, The World Health Organization warned of human to human transmission on January 14, 2020:
WHO’s technical lead for the response noted in a press briefing there may have been limited human-to-human transmission of the coronavirus (in the 41 confirmed cases), mainly through family members, and that there was a risk of a possible wider outbreak. The lead also said that human-to-human transmission would not be surprising given our experience with SARS, MERS and other respiratory pathogens” (source).
The CDC has known for decades that the influenza virus is transmitted person to person, but we have never been told to wear a mask to stop the spread of that virus. As a matter of fact, the CDC specifically says masks don’t work; and they do not recommend wearing a mask, to prevent transmission of the flu!
No recommendation can be made at this time for mask use in the community by asymptomatic persons, including those at high risk for complications, to prevent exposure to influenza viruses” (source).
But wait. On this separate page related to the recommendation to wear a face covering, the CDC does provide seven recent publications to support the use of masks for COVID – (source)
Here is a brief summary of each study listed. I recommend you read them in their entirety.
- Rothe C, Schunk M, Sothmann P, et al. Transmission of 2019-nCoV Infection from an Asymptomatic Contact in Germany. The New England Journal of Medicine. 2020;382(10):970-971.
Read the full article from Jennifer's site here.
Wear a mask dont let fresh air into your body, make that virus stronger .go out with your faulty mask and spread it on everyone...Phrma luvs ya all!
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/07/health/masks-banned-n95-coronavirus.html
F.D.A. Bans Faulty Masks, 3 Weeks After Failed Tests
The Food and Drug Administration prohibited 65 manufacturers from selling masks for medical use. But the move came after tests last month showed the masks didn’t meet standards.
By Jack Nicas and Sheila Kaplan
Published May 7, 2020
Updated May 9, 2020
For three weeks the Food and Drug Administration allowed the sale of several types of N95-style face masks for American health care workers despite evidence from other parts of the federal government that the masks were not effective for blocking the coronavirus.
Millions of these masks, produced in China, have been bought by or donated to American hospitals and distributed to others on the front line of the Covid-19 outbreak. Starting in mid-April, tests conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention revealed that some of the products did not meet medical standards for protection against the coronavirus.
But it wasn’t until Thursday that the F.D.A. barred more than 65 of the 80 authorized manufacturers in China from exporting N95-style face masks to the United States for medical use, citing poor quality.While the F.D.A. continues to take action to balance the urgent need of supplies of respirators for health care personnel, we are also doing everything in our authority to ensure health care personnel receive adequate protection,” an F.D.A. spokeswoman said in a statement. She added that the agency would collaborate with the C.D.C. to increase the supply of masks and ensure their integrity.
She did not comment on the delay between the failed tests and the F.D.A.’s action.
Pharma For Prison
MMR RIP
Posted by: Angus Files | May 26, 2020 at 07:30 AM
This is the very cool mask designed for those engaging in sports: https://www.ao-air.com/
Since we now know that the virus can be expelled and infect people in a radius of forty feet and can linger in the air and infect people walking through that area, I think we need to just say that everyone in a public place should wear a mask. I just reposted the link last night to reports on tests which show that any kind of mask is either quite effective or very effective at preventing infection, both from droplets and from aerosolized virus. If you feel stifled in a mask, but the ao atmos mask at the link above. Will start to be sold in July for over three hundred dollars. Very high tech, I couldn’t even follow the description of how it notified your phone through Bluetooth when it was time to change the filter. Long waiting list already, limit of five per customer. Most people want to get with the picture and protect both themselves and their fellow man. The Mask Resistance.
It’s very interesting how all fashion designers are offering couture masks. Homemade masks in every price range sold at Etsy in very cute prints. Jo Ann’s Fabrics sells everything you need online, including patterns, to make your own masks. I bought a Filtrete air filter to carefully cut so as to use it as an insert in a pocket of a homemade mask to increase its filtering ability. This is where it’s at.
The last few times I talked to my daughter’s pre-employment supervisor in phone or Zoom conferences, we’ve talked about a new wave of cases here with reopening. I see that the lunatics with Corona at Lake of the Ozarks yesterday have made national news. And I see that active cases in this county have gone from six to twenty-six in less than a week, since Friday when we talked to F. And that trash pickup has been reduced because several trash collectors have been diagnosed with Covid and are in isolation. I told F that I expect an upsurge in cases now, several weeks after reopening, in August if they decide to restart schools and the university, and in October when it starts to get cold again. A mask mandate would put a lid on it. I wish they’d just bite the bullet and do universal testing and isolation of all positives as soon as possible.
Hera,
Why would anyone care if health authorities traced your contacts to warn them if someone tests positive? It saves lives. Why would I or anyone else care if a report were prepared, even published in the newspaper, of where we had gone and who we had been close to? In the Far East, they have a very clever program in which everyone’s cell phones communicate with each other, changing internal passwords every fifteen minutes. When someone is diagnosed with Covid, his phone sends out an alert to all the phones which had been in his proximity, so they could be tested. We went to the supermarket today: I would like to know if we were near those positive for Covid. Also true that we were wearing masks as well as everyone else, including a three year old girl in the front of a shopping cart, the second child I’ve seen with a mask, a cute print this time. Susan mentioned a couple of stores where only 30% were wearing masks, but at Schnucks everyone was.
Protecting lives is a good reason to invade privacy, although I doubt anyone in the whole city does anything which anyone would consider embarrassing. The bar for embarrassing is a lot higher now than it used to be. I can’t think of anything more boring than reports, public or not, on where everyone had been in the last month. But if A learns that he sat next to B somewhere, restaurants and movie theaters are reopening with restrictions tomorrow, without a mask, it could save his life if he learns that B was just diagnosed with Covid.
Posted by: Cia | May 25, 2020 at 07:58 PM
"If masks don’t work, why were rates in Austria, Czechia, and Slovakia slashed to single digits as soon as they enacted masks for all laws?"
Good question. How do we know that the masks were responsible?
Posted by: Rob | May 24, 2020 at 04:00 PM
Rob, not a doctor or lawyer
Dear CIA,
I have been working for a large corporation, big box retail, that is considered "essential". We carry face masks, usually used by contractors against dust and other airborne particles during building construction. Somewhere near the beginning of this crisis, our masks were bought in bulk by people who occasionally said they were shipping them to China. This is plausible as we are located near a primary international airport. At some point, the company decided to divert all supplies of N95 masks to first responders and hospitals. You may call this a sacrifice, but as it was nearly impossible to obtain a medically significant facemask for about two months, my team worked naked against whatever this virus thing is and continue to do so. None of us have been sickened, nor do we have any scientifically valid way to know if we are passive carriers. Evangelize for facemasks all you like but in our research we determined the following:
A facemask without a microparticle filter for outbound breathing does not stop transmission of virus particles. In fact, logically speaking, it acts as a hothouse incubator or reservoir for whatever you are exhaling, that can logically be amplified when you are speaking, coughing, singing, etc.
What about particles that land in your eyes? Should we not also mandate full polycarbonate face shields to protect our entire faces? That's what we observe healthcare workers using. Even then, are facemasks in addition to face shields, even full hazmat gear, offering protection that exceeds the host's own immune defenses, or some statistical presumption of attenuation?
Is saturating our environment with Lysol and alcohol-based sanitizers not creating a corollary health risk?
Based on the precautionary principle we might agree to take a better-safe-than-sorry approach and wear something to slow down our liquid-state transmissions. But, have you seen the people walking around with some cloth under their nose that actually looks wet and dusty from sloppy casual use? What's the point?
Posted by: Rob, not a doctor or lawyer |
Posted by: Rob | May 24, 2020 at 03:34 PM
@Cait
He has only said (April)“now recommending people wear them if they anticipate being in a situation where distancing isn't possible.”
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/covid-19-quebec-arruda-recommends-151612575.html
Above is hardly a reversal. His alledged browbeaten stance aside, it doesn’t alter the manufacturers “strict protocol” guidelines of wearing a mask and all the other sensible false sense of securities he mentioned . People are dying wearing them, crashing cars, via hypoxia and 12% of the UK have been advised not to wear them as detailed previously. The poin is everyone should have a choice.You would not get a mask near my autistic son’s face-whats the punishment 10 years in a China jail?not so funny just look at Hong Kong.. Everyone should wear one is the narrative. This usual one size fits all as with vaccines is being heedlessly rolled out as always by the Gates.gov puppets for nothing more than confusion and profit.You follow them if you want to.
Pharma For Priosn
MMR RIP
Posted by: Angus Files | May 21, 2020 at 04:13 PM
@ Angus
"In his ongoing defensive war against COVID-19, Quebec’s increasingly popular public health director Horacio Arruda launched a multi-pronged attack Wednesday on a target many might consider surprising: masks."
The Wednesday in question was Wednesday March 18, more than 2 months ago. As our knowledge of Covid-19 has evolved, Arruda — like many other public health officials and organizations — has reversed his position on the wearing of masks.
The notion that healthy people don’t need to wear masks seems reasonable… but how do we know for sure that we are “healthy” and not just a- or pre-symptomatic?
Posted by: Cait | May 21, 2020 at 01:29 PM
Hera,
I was interested in your information about the Navajo nation. A few years ago my son visited the USA and brought back for me an ornament hand-made by one of the Navajo people. I still have it. It would seem that many of these people make their living out of the tourist industry, and this will have taken a hard hit during the lock-up, as we call it. This will have made a difficult life even harder for them. Enough of economic genocide!
Posted by: Grace Green | May 21, 2020 at 11:18 AM
A must-watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Zg1cBWAFvM&feature=emb_logo
Posted by: Laura Hayes | May 21, 2020 at 07:48 AM
Cia,
If a child or teenager hasn't been in contact with anyone since March how can he have caught a virus? Didn't you know that Kawasaki's disease is a vaccine injury? And also, why did the CDC do a 180 degree turn on their mask wearing advice? From my experience in Scotland people were all smiling at one another in the street. We can't have that now can we?
Posted by: Grace Green | May 21, 2020 at 07:05 AM
Cia,
Re the Navajo nation, apparently on the reservation in Nevada, there are 300,000 people, and about a third of the households don't have running water. I would be very happy to see some of the millions set aside for "contact tracing", be used instead to provide running water and electricity to the 100,000 or so people without this basic necessity. I am pretty sure that the ability to wash hands as often as needed, or flush a toilet with running water, would massively help with improving health on the Navajo nation, both from COVID 19, and from other illnesses in the future That would be imo, an excellent way to do something that would with almost 100% certainty save lives..
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-navajo-nation-running-water-cbsn-originals/
From the article...
About 30% of the population in the Navajo Nation does not have running water in their homes during a time when hand-washing is critical. It also has one of the highest COVID-19 infection rates per capita in the U.S.
Posted by: Hera | May 21, 2020 at 12:47 AM
Reasons for not wearing a mask..
Why masks don’t work
The coronavirus is spread through tiny microdroplets emitted through coughs and sneezes that float through the air, or rest on surfaces and can remain infectious for several days. Standard flat surgical masks don’t give full coverage, so very small droplets suspended in the air can still get through.
If a person’s hand has come in contact with the virus, and they touch their mask to adjust it in the vicinity of their eyes, nose and mouth, it can transmit the disease.
Masks get saturated with moisture from the mouth and nose after about 20 minutes. Once they’re wet, they no longer form a barrier against viruses trying to come through or exit.
In his ongoing defensive war against COVID-19, Quebec’s increasingly popular public health director Horacio Arruda launched a multi-pronged attack Wednesday on a target many might consider surprising: masks.
The health ministry issued a press release and a video Wednesday featuring Arruda inciting the general population to stop using them, unless they’re sick. He reiterated the message during Premier François Legault’s daily update to the population.
“Don’t think that masks are the miracle solution,” he said. “They are useful for those who are sick to not contaminate others. It’s all about hygiene of the hands.”
Arruda warned that masks give users a false sense of security, when in fact they might increase the odds of contracting the virus. Users tend to reposition them frequently, he said, bringing their hands in contact with their face.
The focus should be on hand hygiene, he said.
“I don’t wear a mask. I wash my hands. I wash my hands,” he said. “We wash our hands, because that is what can save lives.”
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/coronavirus-why-masks-dont-work/ar-BB11nxm9
Pharma For Prison
MMR RIP
Posted by: Angus Files | May 20, 2020 at 04:08 PM
https://www.vox.com/2020/5/12/21252476/masks-for-coronavirus-trump-pence-honeywell-covid-19
Reasons for not wearing masks: it’s not macho, it shows weakness and submission. Another article discussed a new meme among young people who think it’s cool not to wear masks and also: #boomerremover
How cool is that?
This article said that the CDC did not recommend masks, but that information is behind the times. In early April, the CDC reversed its position and said that everyone should wear a mask when in public. Why did this article neglect to mention that?
Posted by: Cia | May 20, 2020 at 11:41 AM
Masks are HIGHLY effective in filtering out CV virus.
https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/can-masks-capture-coronavirus/
If the wearer doesn’t take care to seal his mask by pressing the wire at the top of his nose down securely and tuck the mask under his chin, some viral particles may get in, as they will also do with surgical or homemade masks. That isn’t necessarily a bad thing: exposure to small amounts of virus would in most cases allow the person’s immune system to become familiar with it and make antibodies without being overwhelmed. Viral load matters, and the reason many young, healthy health care workers died in Wuhan and Italy was that they were exposed to high viral loads in sick patients, had run out of masks, and were exposed all day, every day.
If masks don’t work, why were rates in Austria, Czechia, and Slovakia slashed to single digits as soon as they enacted masks for all laws?
The regulations usually exempt children under two and those with breathing difficulties. In most places, these people could and should just stay home and have groceries delivered. They wouldn’t have to wear masks, but might easily catch Covid.
This is like saying that laws mandating that babies and young children have to use car seats in the car are tyrannical and just because... OK, what if a child had just had major surgery and was in a full body cast. Being crammed into and buckled into a car seat would cause him severe pain and injury. THEREFORE, laws mandating car seats for children are tyrannical, dangerous, and unjust. Who cares that they save hundreds of lives a year? They inconvenience ME!
I saw and commented on a - tweet yesterday, which said What if a man wouldn’t let his wife/girlfriend leave the house ever, yadda yadda. That would be (etc).
OK, what if a small child darted into the road, but a passerby ran after him and knocked him out of the way of a car about to hit him? The child was bruised by the man’s efforts. Clearly child abuse and the man should get life in prison? Honestly, you can see why Mike Adams calls this social movement Stu-19.
I linked an article last night about the teen in New York. I see I neglected to say that while at first he tested negative for CV, he later tested positive. The disease has caused a generalized inflammatory disorder, as it has in thousands of children and teens all over the world. I’ll have to look for an update, the boy was in Covid-induced heart failure. There was a photo of him hugging his dad when his father was crying about the boy’s diagnosis.
So EVEN if you are completely unconcerned about old people, or the obese, those with diabetes, asthma, high blood pressure, etc., dying of Covid by the hundreds of thousands, are you concerned about the many children and teens dying or being disabled by it? Odd that some are concerned about those with asthma being compelled to use masks, but not about their often poor prognosis when they GET Covid.
Posted by: Cia | May 20, 2020 at 10:41 AM
More dangers of slow kill mask wearing being admitted to..
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/health/asthma-sufferers-warned-not-wear-22054249
Asthma sufferers warned not to wear face masks amid coronavirus pandemic
That's the advice from experts who claim that the pieces of protective equipment can make breathing harder for 12% of Brits.
"The government has advised the people with respiratory conditions don't need to wear face coverings - so if you are finding it hard, then don't wear one.”
People with other lung conditions including bronchitis, emphysema and chronic obstructive pulmonary disorder (COPD) should also avoid face masks, according to Dr Purvi Parikh, an immunology expert at New York University.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/health/asthma-sufferers-warned-not-wear-22054249
Pharma For Prison
MMR RIP
Posted by: Angus Files | May 20, 2020 at 05:14 AM
Since tracing was brought up in this thread, I will put this here:
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/the-trace-act-is-this-the-world-we-want/
This article is excellent.
Posted by: Carolyn M | May 19, 2020 at 11:23 PM
Earlier I meant to say serious CV in children might make people take the disease more seriously. I just saw this article about a ninth grade boy who had not left his apartment since March, tested negative for CV, then developed symptoms of a blood clotting disorder, heart failure, teen-aged Kawasaki’s, the strange hand and foot rash many kids are getting, conjunctivitis, felt like fire in his veins. I also saw a cell phone study of how those who went to the Open now! No Mask! rallies in several states spread the virus over a large range. Also it’s R0 is looking like it’s over six. Which is horrifying. I think we should try to eradicate it. Although with an R0 that high, we might not be able to at this point.
And the Oxford vaccine caused the monkeys to develop neutralizing antibodies, but ALL of them were infected with CV when exposed to it.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/17/health/coronavirus-multisystem-fnflammatory-syndrome-children-teenagers.html
Posted by: Cia | May 19, 2020 at 10:36 PM
Laura,
Could you provide specific, concrete evidence of a curve based on real cases which deviates from these detailed projections? You haven’t provided any so far.
Posted by: Cia | May 19, 2020 at 05:40 PM
This link was posted below as "evidence" of masks being extremely effective at preventing transmission of Covid-19 and deaths from Covid-19:
https://arxiv.org/pdf/2004.13553.pdf
It shows no such thing. Why?
Because computer modeling is not science, and it offers proof of nothing, other than the refusal to do sound science.
Posted by: Laura Hayes | May 19, 2020 at 01:57 PM
I just saw this description with many studies linked on what Covid does to many different systems of many people’s bodies.
https://elemental.medium.com/every-covid-19-symptom-we-know-about-right-now-from-head-to-toe-bd1d47584096
I can’t think of an appropriate adjective, they all fall short. I don’t know. Would the fact that the disease has caused severe illness, even disability and death, many cases of Kawasaki’s, make people take it more seriously? Do we take vaccine-induced autism seriously when, in the ‘30s, it affected very few in the population as a whole? Compared to the huge numbers of those dying of diphtheria?
I understand that you have to consider total numbers, both risks and benefits. You can’t ever prevent all bad outcomes in everyone. But I think that in the case of safe measures like test, trace, isolate, social distance, and masks, these measures should definitely be followed by everyone to the best of our ability. I’d say look at what Covid does to every system in the body. I think it should be prevented and eradicated. It’s not your normal virus.
Posted by: Cia | May 19, 2020 at 01:09 PM
Another interesting study and map from Unacast. Based on analyzing movement indicated by cell phone data. I wouldn’t worry about this being an invasion of privacy under the circumstances, but many would.
https://www.unacast.com/covid19/social-distancing-scoreboard
The US gets a D-, maybe an F, for how well we’re avoiding non-essential travel. That would probably explain our still extremely high number of new cases and deaths. I just saw this and it will take some time to digest it. Wuhan and its province Hubei, and Italy went into total lockdown and got a grip on Covid that way. Most of Europe declared lockdowns much more stringent than anywhere in the US. Not that Europe has done that great, but it’s reduced deaths a lot from what they would have been without the lockdowns.
I’ll have to think about this. It seems shocking that the US seems to care so little about the people dying. The algorithm used by Unacast first took out essential travel, I assume they knew how to do that. Most businesses here, at least, I think are still closed, I don’t know where people would be going, or why, under the circumstances.
Posted by: Cia | May 19, 2020 at 12:28 PM
I just saw this new study which shows how extremely effective masks are at preventing transmission and deaths. Very impressive statistical charts!
https://arxiv.org/pdf/2004.13553.pdf
Posted by: Cia | May 19, 2020 at 11:39 AM
Laura,
You have to weigh the risks and benefits. We wear N95 masks which I ordered on Amazon from China on Feb 22. They’re hot, but we can breathe fine. We have some surgical masks, some homemade masks from Etsy, and a couple of bandanna masks that you pull over your head. Neither of us liked them as much as the N95.
I think it’s similar to other safety issues. Say car seats. I followed all the rules the best I could, but they were often a pain in the neck. My father died when Cecily was three. A friend drove us to Wichita the week before he died and we stayed there nearly a week. The car seat was somewhat of a problem. It would have been easier to just go, have her in a normal seat belt the way I did when I was little. We didn’t even wear seat belts on long trips.
So was it a good idea to go to the trouble of uninstalling the car seat from our car and temporarily installing it in my friend’s car? I thought it was, and it’s what we did.
No one can know for sure at any time that he’s not carrying Covid. It’s R0 or average number of other people infected keeps going up. So every person out in public without a mask is doing something comparable to driving with a baby or young child unrestrained in the car. In this case, while avoiding death is the motivation in both cases, in this case you’re trying to prevent both your own infection and possible death and those of the people around you. Masks definitely slash the rate of both. So the question is whether your possible discomfort wearing a mask outweighs preventing other people’s getting and maybe dying of Covid, or, if not those particular people you come in contact with, the hundreds of other people who could become infected within a week based on the R0 rate, very high whatever it ultimately turns out to be specifically.
I don’t think saying that the mask is kind of stuffy cuts it compared to the stuffiness of Covid patients dying because they cannot breathe. I think it’s good to care about them too.
Posted by: Cia | May 19, 2020 at 11:18 AM
That was FOOD desert, not good desert. The Navajo have to go to the few places where FOOD is sold. My cell phone constantly changes what I write.
Posted by: Cia | May 19, 2020 at 10:57 AM
Hera,
Everyone has to make his own choices and do the best they can. Wearing masks and gloves slashes rates of infection to very low, but not to zero. Possibly because compliance in the reporting area was not 100%, possibly because a critical level of virus got through despite precautions. We’re staying at home, but it’s very hard on my daughter. We’ve been going to the supermarket once a week in mask and gloves. I’ve thought about having groceries delivered, but it would be an extra expense, probably take a few days, and it’s a little break in the prison sentence for Cecily.
I recognize that isolation is the only foolproof method of avoiding the virus for those living in a house with a yard, as we do. Beyond that, you just do the best you can. We went to Mass the first Sunday it reopened a week and a half ago, they were mandating and observing all the precautions, and it was a beautiful experience, but it wasn’t as safe as remaining in isolation at home. We wipe everything with Lysol wipes that we’ve touched wearing gloves while out, door handles in the car, steering wheel, gear shift. We spray the bottoms of our shoes with Lysol spray. But that’s really all we can do, what I think is the best we can. I think I had Covid in December, caught the day of the four international airports. Bad, and I think it is recurring and may have permanently degraded my health. I have been permanently much sicker than before December, and I’ve read about the hundreds of thousands who have had similar experiences with Covid being a chronic illness. But no one seems to know yet about all the issues regarding possible immunity and strains.
I read last night about how hard Covid has struck the Navajo Nation, harder than any Covid outbreak in the US besides NYC. The article said that the Navajo lived in a good desert and were compelled to crowd into businesses which sold groceries, and as a result are dropping like flies from massive Covid deaths. Maybe it’s partly for genetic reasons, what we were talking about in February, the ACE-2 sites on virus entry being more numerous and easier for the virus to penetrate in Asians, especially Asian men. Also, of course, poverty and ill health to start with.
It makes me sad that so much of this issue has become cultural and political rather than medical (for lack of a better term). Will sympathy for the higher Covid mortality among blacks and Asians prevail over ill-conceived calls for liberty and flouting of simple, obvious measures like masks and social distancing? Whose “rights” will prevail?
Posted by: Cia | May 19, 2020 at 10:53 AM
Cia,
In reality, imo the best way for immune compromised or at risk people to avoid the virus is to stay at home. Get groceries delivered at the door, worship at home, walk the dog in the back yard, don't leave the house, don't have anyone come in, and talk to people over the phone. And people can , and maybe some should, choose to do that.
Masks are going to limit some coughing transmission, and probably some of the breathing in of viruses as well. But having done quarantine of infectious patients, and also worked in the Operating Room (many many years ago before I changed professions and decided not to continue as an R.N./RGN,) what we are doing is nothing like preventing infection as it should be done. In isolation rooms, you have airflow changes to prevent airborne virus escaping. You have decontmaination changing rooms to remove all coverings.
In the O.R, when I worked there, the moment you touch a glove on a contaminating surface, you change the gloves. Its why you see surgeons and O.R. staff walking around with their hands/arms in the air a lot of the time.And you have a nurse whose job it is to try up masks, wipe sweat, maybe scratch noses, because contamination by touching any non sterile surface means re gloving and re-scrubbing. To wash your hands, you scrub your nails, use disinfecting soap,when you have finished scrubbing and cleaning, you dry your hands and arms holding them up so the cleanest part is the fingers. You do not touch any part of the sterile outside of the glove while putting it on. The reality is that when you go to a store, using a non sterile glove , and use a cart that someone has wiped down with disinfectant (kind of), but wear shoes on the same floor as everyone else, pick up cans or food touched by the shelf stocker and others, touch shelves that are cleaned ? Sometimes? Once a shift? touch a key pad or hand over money held by many others, get given your receipt or coins in change, there are so many vectors for infection. In the Or, all items being used are either bought prepackaged as sterile, or cleaned and autoclaved at extremely high temperatures.If it touches any other surface, it is either autoclaved or tossed.
Sitting in church on a bench sat on by others, on a floor walked on and coughed on by others, certainly social distancing may help, but this is not a sterile environment.
Gloves imo are probably useless when worn right throughout a shopping trip, because those same gloves are not removed after touching a contaminated surface, but are instead touching many potentially contaminated things,spreading germs from one thing to another, your food surfaces, cans, your purse, the checkout line etc. I did see one young man at the checkout who was spraying his gloves with hand sanitizer; which seemed like it might be a good idea, since it would hopefully reduce the germs on the glove surface, and might prevent his skin from getting dried out and cracked from too much hand sanitizer. ( Cracked skin from over washing can sometimes also be a risk factor , as skin integrity is also a protection though most of us can use moisturizing soap etc and wash a lot and still be fine. Trying to use some of the harsher betadine type washes all day can dry out your skin pretty quickly in my experience.) ) The above is all just my opinion, but I admit, given the fact that the hospitals mostly have a lot of capacity right now, I would much rather they opened things up now, to see if we even do 'get a wave of infections" or if we have mostly been spreading it everywhere anyway, but if we are going to a 'wave of infections" , I would rather see this happen in summer, with warmth, not flu season, than see people fighting respiratory infections in the dead of winter at the same time as their unemployment runs out,maybe can't afford enough heat or food, and with either a flu shot or potentially the flu in their systems as well. Again, just my opinion, not to be taken as medical or public health advice...
Posted by: hera | May 19, 2020 at 10:15 AM
Excellent article ,mixed mask messages ,scripted prescriptive chaos and carnage .
Pandemic pandemonium for care home residents in elderly care ,physical disabilities ,learning disabilities and learning difficulties sector.
www.pulsetoday.co.uk.
GP's to support care home residents with covid-19 "remotely and face to face "
18 May 2020 By Sofia Lind
The care home covid support service
States - Sensitive and collaborative decisions around hospital admissions for care home residents
if they are likely to benefit
The latest top down instructions from the department of health and social care ,the latest assessment ,plan of action and implementation of these policies is equivialent to the Fire Brigade
being told ,
"New Guidelines ,so, next burning building yer in ,just get all the skinny folk out the fire first , as we don't want any of ewe's firefighters hurting yer own backs!"
Posted by: Morag | May 19, 2020 at 05:19 AM
The other way people catch Covid is by touching a surface which has the virus and then touching your mouth, nose, or eyes.
Who can be sure they’re healthy? Most cases of Covid are transmitted by people with no symptoms, who think they are healthy and Covid-free. Maybe they are and maybe they aren’t. If they aren’t now, they can become infected very easily if not wearing a mask and then potentially contributing to crashing hospitals, preventing the sick from getting necessary care.
If you wear a mask, as we will do in a little while when we go to the store, probably it will not have been necessary, but no one can ever be sure. If there are Covid germs out there, as there have been in recent months here, our masks will block them. And we show we care about protecting the lives of others.
Why would we not wear them? If we didn’t, we would be saying we didn’t care about becoming infected ourselves or infecting others. It’s like Pascal’s wager. You lose nothing if you take it and it turns out not to be necessary, but you save lives if it turns out to be necessary.
Posted by: Cia | May 18, 2020 at 01:07 PM
Where is the definitive proof that Covid-19 is contagious?
If masks are protective for the wearer against Covid-19, why would the wearer care if anyone else wears a mask?
I am seeing some of the same arguments used for vaccine requirements/mandates as I am for mask requirements/mandates...i.e. "We claim they are effective (and harmless for the user)...yet, we clearly don't feel protected despite our vaccinating ourselves/wearing masks ourselves...as evidenced by our wanting everyone else to do it, too."
You can't have it both ways.
If one believes vaccines provide protection, the vaccination status of others is irrelevant, and should make no difference to the vaccine user.
Likewise, if one believes masks provide protection, the wearing of masks by others is irrelevant, and should make no difference to the mask wearer.
In reality, neither vaccines nor masks are proven protection, and neither are risk-free to the user. Additionally, neither should ever be required or mandated. Healthcare-related decisions belong solely to individuals and parents. They are not decisions to be made by the government, any entity, or someone else.
Posted by: Laura Hayes | May 18, 2020 at 01:01 PM
There are two main ways to catch Covid. Breathe in droplet-borne or aerosolized viral particles from an infected person who has recently coughed, sneezed, laughed, talked, or breathed in the area where you are breathing now. The droplets do not pass the material of the mask. The wearer does not breathe them in and does not get Covid. Masks also reduce or eliminate infection from aerosolized particles. That’s why so many young doctors in Wuhan and Milan died: stores of masks had run out. That’s why doctors all over the world have been clamoring for them. They work to protect the wearer from being infected by germs in the air. It’s how Austria decreased cases by 90%, and Czechia and Slovakia almost eliminated cases. Millions of good-hearted people are making them to give to medical personnel or to anyone who wants them. I got a message from our neighborhood forum from a woman cranking them out on her sewing machine, eager to give them away and save lives. Notice the information given here on the small number of Covid deaths in Japan compared to the US on a population basis. Japan has done magnitudes better because nearly all Japanese have been wearing masks in public for many months now, and significant numbers of Americans haven’t.
It is both logically obvious and also supported by truckloads of evidence of every kind that face masks prevent disease transmission. So you have a choice: wear a mask in public or refuse to wear a mask because... Hmm. I really can’t think of a good reason. OK. Just thought of a reason, though not a good one. They’re hot. CLEARLY a good reason to transmit Covid to your neighbor. After all, does anyone believe in that brother’s keeper stuff anymore? There is NO reason that anyone should tolerate the most minor discomfort to save people from choking to death, drowning in their own blood. After all, it is not likely that they will be anyone you know, just an anonymous figure. No need to come to the obvious conclusions comparing mortality between places where nearly everyone responsibly and compassionately wears masks and where they don’t. Much more agreeable to close your eyes and stop your ears.
Posted by: Cia | May 18, 2020 at 10:32 AM
The science supports wearing masks.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chriswestfall/2020/05/12/new-study-shows-80-percent-decrease-in-covid-19-cases/#3131f892f59f
*********
This new study isn't science. It's just more guesswork, based on computer models.
Posted by: Barry | May 18, 2020 at 08:07 AM
Computer modeling is not science, and Forbes cannot be considered a legitimate or trusted source of information (quite the opposite, as a matter of fact).
For anyone who has been even a short-time reader at AoA to cite a Forbes article as a source of information to read, much less trust, is concerning.
Posted by: Laura Hayes | May 18, 2020 at 07:54 AM
The science supports wearing masks.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chriswestfall/2020/05/12/new-study-shows-80-percent-decrease-in-covid-19-cases/#3131f892f59f
Posted by: Cia | May 17, 2020 at 07:59 PM
Thank you, Barry, I will have a watch.
I also wanted to share this recent WAPF article with AoA readers, which challenges whether or not Covid-19 is contagious:
https://nourishingtraditions.com/is-coronavirus-contagious/
Worth the read. And here is an excerpt to entice you:
"During the first world war, governments on both sides of the conflict installed antennas which eventually blanketed the earth with strong radio signals–and during the later part of 1918, disaster struck. The Spanish flu afflicted a third of the world’s population and killed around fifty million people, more than the Black Death of the fourteenth century. Those living on military bases, where the antennas were routinely installed, were the most vulnerable. A common symptom was bleeding—from the nostrils, the gums, ears, skin, stomach, intestines, uterus, kidneys and brain. Many died of hemorrhage in the lungs, the victims literally drowning in their own blood. Tests revealed a decreased ability for the blood to coagulate.
Health officials in those days were very interested in the question of whether the Spanish flu was contagious. Doctors from the U.S. Public Health Service tried to infect one hundred healthy volunteers between the ages of eighteen and twenty- five by collecting mucous secretions from the noses, throats and upper respiratory tracts of those who were sick. They transferred these secretions to the noses, mouths and lungs of the volunteers, but not one of them got sick; blood of sick donors was injected into the blood of the volunteers, but they remained stubbornly healthy; finally they instructed those afflicted to breathe and cough over the volunteers, but none became sick. Researchers even tried to infect healthy horses with the mucous secretions of horses with the flu, but the results were the same. The Spanish flu was not contagious."
Posted by: Laura Hayes | May 16, 2020 at 06:56 PM
Blaylock spells it out no surprise either simply wearing masks will kill you eventually .Another slow stealth kill from Pharma.
Pharma For Prison
MMR RIP
Posted by: Angus Files | May 16, 2020 at 06:44 PM
Thank you Laura for that link. Here's another link to an hour long interview with Professor Dr. Dolores Cahill.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9GbVZOcT18
This interview is a blockbuster IMO, well worth a listen for anyone who can spare an hour.
But in the context of this conversation, the time between ~ 36.25 and 37:21 is when she explains why she does not agree with the strategies of social distancing, or wearing masks.
Posted by: Barry | May 16, 2020 at 04:07 PM
And thank YOU, Laura Hayes, for sharing this excellent article!
I will, of course, be sharing far and wide.
Posted by: Bayareamom | May 16, 2020 at 10:53 AM
It is estimated that 80% of cases of Covid are transmitted by Covid carriers with no symptoms, who are unaware that they have it. It is meaningless to say that healthy people should not have to wear masks. Almost anyone can get it, walking through and breathing in an air cloud that an infected person recently walked through, breathed, talked, even laughed, coughed, or sneezed in. And the infected particles can remain suspended in the air for three hours. Infected people thirty feet away can expel virus which infects those at the other side of the room. If an infected person touches something with his germs on it, those who touch it during the days it can linger there, and then touch their face, can infect themselves.
Wearing masks greatly reduces infection, germs are stopped at the surface of the mask. Austria saw 90% drop in cases as soon as it passed a law mandating masks.
On the other hand, Texas has diagnosed a thousand new cases a day every day for the last week. Orange County reported its highest number of new cases ever every day for the last three days. Masks are good. Masks save lives.
Laura, I was wondering if David died of Covid. He was in the ICU a month, but the doctor said he was broken, but fixable. Did he catch Covid in the ICU and die of it?
Posted by: Cia | May 16, 2020 at 10:08 AM
Every day programing is interrupted by Public Service Announcements by Gov Andrew Cuomo in NY and NJ Gov Phil Murphy .. these PSA's usually last at least an hour .. during which both governors somberly inform the people of their respective states .. that policies and protocols being issued are based entirely on SCIENCE AND DATA … which require "social distancing" and "wearing face masks". According to both governors … ALL SCIENTIST AND DATA SUPPORT THOSE POLICIES AND PROTOCOLS.
Obviously the SCIENCE AND DATA driving government policies and protocols is NOT WITHOUT GREAT DISAGREEMENT WITHIN THE SCIENCE COMMUNITY ITSELF … and therein lies a huge problem .. if both governors are unware of the rigorous disagreement between the effectiveness and PUBLIC SAFETY of "wearing face masks at all times" .. they run the risk of installing protocols and policies that will prove to have done more HARM THAN GOOD.
It is not enough for POLITICIANS to institute policies and protocols that have severely altered the daily lives of their constituents .. based solely upon individual SCIENTISTS .. absent any serious effort to CHALLENGE those individual scientists by equally credentialed scientists who have opposing DATA supporting their SCIENCE. This is especially true when politicians continue to rely on scientists that have proven themselves unreliable … having changed their opinions and predictions when original opinions and predictions were proven to be wrong.
Issuing Executive Orders requiring everyone to wear a facemask ought not be taken lightly … as many scientist theorize it is harmful to the individuals following "orders" .. at the very least politicians should demand THEIR MOST TRUSTED PUBLIC HEALTH SCIENTISTS "publicly challenge and confront those scientists who oppose wearing masks" Politicians do not have the education/knowledge to choose which scientist is right .. that choice ought to be left to the SCIENCE ….
I shudder to think what our "new normal" future will be .. already seeing images of pre-k room with individual desks encased in clear plastic .. reminiscent of the "Boy in the Bubble" segment on Jerry Seinfield .. school yard with painted circles to maintain "social distance" between children at play ..
What is the psychological damage to a country/child growing up in a school like that????
Posted by: Bob Moffit | May 16, 2020 at 09:44 AM
Thank you for this well-researched, well-written article, Patricia! I will be sharing it widely, just as I shared the excellent one by Dr. Blaylock a few days ago.
https://www.technocracy.news/blaylock-face-masks-pose-serious-risks-to-the-healthy/?fbclid=IwAR27PTuYonq6ySKKY_mOMi9sAHP0dt9b-QY_ZuOg20B3SDKEEI7Z5XSnY1Q
Posted by: Laura Hayes | May 16, 2020 at 07:47 AM