Age of Autism Interview: Dr. Toby Rogers, PhD on the Autism Epidemic
Time to Breathe

The King's Face in the Moon: An Interview with Toby Rogers Part 2

016-ANNIEWHITE-The-very-finest-quality-from-THE-EMPERORS-NEW-CLOTHES-400w-300x226Anne Dachel continues her interview with Toby Rogers, PhD. Read Part 1 here.

#2 More questions for Dr. Toby Rogers

Here Dr. Rogers comments on “the strange moment that we’re in.”

“In 2012 I was teaching in Cambodia. I had just graduated with a master’s degree from UC Berkley, and I’d gone off to teach gender studies in Cambodia.

“During the time that I was there, the King [Norodom Sihanouk] died. This was a big deal, and the night the King died people poured out into the streets of Phnom Penh and throughout Cambodia.

“It was strange because they were all looking up at the moon. It was a beautiful night, there was a full moon. Everybody was all in the streets. They were all looking up at the moon.

“I wanted to understand what was happening so I went down to the street. I asked a young lady, ‘What’s happening? What’s going on here?’

“The young woman said that the King had died. I said, ‘Yes, I know the King has died. I’m sorry for that.’

“And she said, ‘The King’s face is there in the moon. Can’t you see it?’

“And I looked up at the moon, and it was a full moon. It was a nice moon, but I didn’t see the King’s face. ‘What are you talking about?’

“And she said, ‘Well the King’s face is in the moon right now. That’s what we’re all looking at. We can all see the King’s face in the moon.’

“At the time this was a very strange social phenomenon that several hundred thousand, actually it was probably more than a million people, in the space of a day could physically see something in the moon that I couldn’t see.

“It was a social phenomenon that I’d never seen before, and it was an example of a collective delusion on a scale that I had never even thought was possible.

“The reason I bring that up is that what we’re experiencing now today in the United States regarding the denial of the autism epidemic is an even stranger social phenomenon than what I witnessed on the streets of Cambodia that night back in 2012.

“Autism is all around us. It’s three percent of the population. Everybody knows somebody who has a kid who’s on the spectrum. Every extended family in the United States is affected by this epidemic, and yet government officials don’t want to talk about it, the New York Times doesn’t want to talk about it, the mainstream media doesn’t want to talk about it.

“As a society the United States is engaged in not seeing something that all of us know is right there right in front of us, and it is very strange.

“What the experience in Cambodia showed me is that it is possible for millions of people, in a fairly short space of time, to see things that are not actually there or to not see things that are there.

“The ways that denial works, the ways that we lie to ourselves as a society, are complex and layered, but we’re in the midst of these unprecedented epidemics of childhood illness in the United States right now. Simultaneously, as a society, the United States is engaged in levels of denial that are on a scale that we’ve never seen before in the United States.

“Maybe we have. Maybe this is in our DNA as a society that we overlooked the sin of slavery, and we overlooked the sin of Jim Crow, and now we overlook the sin of the pharmaceutical industry inflicting unbelievable harms on our children.

“Maybe we’ve been engaged in denial for centuries. Certainly if we asked the native populations they would say, ‘It’s about time that you woke up. We’ve been dealing with suffering and official denial for centuries now.’

“As a social scientist these are some of the things I want to sort out. How do we break through that denial, and how do we get people to engage with the world as it really is and to really begin to grasp what’s happening with these epidemics?

“The tragedy in all this, in addition to all the suffering, is that the remedy is relatively straightforward. We simply need to put fewer toxic chemicals in the bodies of children. That starts with better regulation of the pharmaceutical industry, and it starts with rolling back the vaccine schedule to something that’s more sane and based on science, not based on profits of the pharmaceutical industry and trying to make them rich.

“These are just strange times that we’re living in, and I’m grateful for your work. I’m working with a lot of other people who are just trying to figure out how to wake people up to deal with reality as it is instead of engaging in denial and cover-up and ignoring the crises that are right there in front of us.”










I wrote out the link:

A bill with his portrait is on the left with a photograph of the moon on the right. After looking at it for several seconds I saw the face, looking toward the viewer’s right while the photo on the bill is looking to the left. I think his spirit thought that by making the image of himself most familiar to people appear on the moon, they would realize he was doing it to say goodbye to them. He was involved with Pol Pot and the killing fields, and that’s all I know about him. No saint.

But absolutely there are mass delusions. No, that’s probably the wrong word. I was thinking about the Holocaust and widespread sincere adherence to Nazi ideology. Little toddlers saying a rhyming bedtime prayer to Hitler. It would be better to call them alternative ideologies, like Allopathicla Medicine as G-.

Dr. Moskowitz suggested that three rather inexpensive (until they become popular) tests for identifying those most likely y to o react to vaccines with excessive inflammation, like for C- reactive protein, sedimentation rate, and certain nucleotide sequences. So not sensitivity to certain vaccine but to the vaccination process in general. It would absolutely be a good idea to do these tests on all prospective vaccinees.



I apologize. Just yesterday I was wondering how LA could flout the governor’s instructions. This is the article, and it’s bad enough. Lockdowns continue in effect, they just have stopped identifying those who are spreading it. I don’t know how to give links from my iPhone, and C is still asleep downstairs where the desktop is. It’s: Los Angeles Times, “LA County gives up on containing coronavirus, tells doctors to stop testing of some patients.” Jack Polan,Brittany Mejia, March 20, 2020. Universal testing of everyone in the area of diagnosed cases and contact tracing would have been enough two months ago, I guess with the trillions they are spending they could still test everyone and isolate positives, symptomatic or not. The alternative will be what we are seeing in Italy and Spain. This week we should see if the lockdown in Italy has made a difference, next week in Spain.

Shelley Tzorfas

There can be no safety tests as to who will react to Alzheimer's Causing Aluminum or Cancer causing Formaldehyde and other ingredients in the vaccines. Some folks might react right away with seizures paralysis, Brain Encephalitis, or DEATH. At the end of the day 1 in 2 men and 1 in 3 women get cancer. I read that 1 in 285 kids get cancer. Some say "Its the GMO foods, it's in the air, its in the water," yet a 2 year old child dying from cancer has not drank enough water, eaten enough food, or breathed enough air to be dying from cancer! Our Alzheimer's disease has skyrocketed and is now affecting some people in their 40's.

Aimee Doyle

@Cia - "when useful pre-testing is available, it should be offered."

I'd go a step further and say that useful pre-testing should actively be researched. I'm not willing to accept the "rare" event of disability or death due to vaccine. The risk is 100% if it's you or someone you love. And in any event it's not as "rare" as Pharma and media would have us believe. And I think testing should be priced affordably. That probably means cutting Pharma out of the process, since the industry already overprices anything they can (insulin, anyone?) I actually prefer universal health care, but I don't think the US will get there anytime soon.

I don't know about the King's Face in the moon. Would be curious to see the link. I'm pretty open-minded and I like to look at original sources when I can. But even if that wasn't an episode of mass delusion, there are plenty of other examples of groupthink on the micro level and mass delusion on the macro level. The way the autism epidemic is handled - and how severe autism is rendered almost totally invisible - is a good example.



You stated, "I read this morning that LA has already given up, no more testing, no more quarantine, no more closures."


I just checked the latest LA Times article; didn't see anything close to what you've described. I live in CA; as far as I know, this entire state is under lockdown for all, other than businesses such as supermarkets, pharmacies -- essentials needed to stay open.



I agree that when useful pre-testing is available, it should be offered. And there are tests available for mitigation disorder, nucleotide sequences, and markers for excessive inflammatory responses. I was going to say they should be used, but then thought that doctors would charge outrageous prices for it. I would not want to see the DT or polio series cost a thousand dollars per dose, or more, including testing.

And there can be mass delusions, but in this example, you really can see the king’s face in the moon. I saw it in the photograph. I’ll try to remember to put the link up when I go to the laptop downstairs. I don’t know what it means. I know that Grandma really is in Heaven and have had many experiences which cannot be explained away. Heaven is not a delusion. At the end of a Howard Bloom book I have, he explains what led up to the war in Iraq, and it is a valid reason, not a delusion. As for the vaccine question, I agree that it has a religious component which I think is heretical. But at the same time, at one time tens of thousands of children a year really did die of diphtheria, pertussis, measles, or smallpox (scarlet fever, too). Thousands a year crippled by polio. The vaccines stopped those events from decimating the population. One problem is that most people can’t accept that not much is either all bad or all good, most things, certainly vaccines, have a lot of critically important nuances.

The coronavirus pandemic is the first time in a generation that the world has been confronted by a very dangerous disease. I’m thinking of Hib disease in the ‘80s, but it’s not a dramatic enough parallel. We have to go back to the Spanish flu for that. When they develop a vaccine for it which is even moderately effective and safe, the world will be relieved. I will be relieved. Not because of a mass delusion, but because most vaccines are effective in preventing disease. The almost vertical line of coronavirus cases and deaths every day would fall to horizontal. Every day I try to imagine the personal tragedies of that many families losing a loved one. The mistake is in thinking There you go, a no-brainer, disease bad, vaccine good. Of course the personal tragedies of millions of vaccine- damaged families, including mine, are of equal importance.

I read the chapter on coronavirus yesterday in Deadliest Enemy by Mark Osterholm. Novel coronavirus is exactly like SARS. Biphasal, the serious problems occurring in those who have the second phase. Ten percent mortality. Death by overwhelming pneumonia and respiratory collapse. He gave an example of one man who recovered but still had extreme fatigue and lung damage ten years later. Bat reservoir, civet cat vector (rather than pangolin). But we’re seeing again what made everyone in the world terrified of epidemics of contagious disease. I don’t know what the outcome is going to be. I’d say we can’t go on like this, but historically this was a normal way of life episodically anyway. I read this morning that LA has already given up, no more testing, no more quarantine, no more closures.

Barry Stern

Our mass delusion regarding the extent of autism in the U.S. starts with the corruption of several parties that work in concert to keep the people ignorant of the truth about the nation’s expanded vaccine schedule:
(1) the media that get 60-70% of their advertising dollars from pharmaceutical companies,
(2) politicians who get a healthy portion of their campaign contributions from Pharma, hence their reluctance to call a Congressional hearing to examine documents provided by Dr. Wm Thompson, CDC senior scientist and whistleblower who admitted that the CDC falsified data that would have showed a clear link between vaccines and autism,
(3) doctors who profit from more people with chronic disease emanating from over-vaccination when they were young, and
(4) the CDC that has a clear conflict of interest by earning a portion of its income from licensing vaccines that have been developed at least in part by its own scientists. CDC has also by-passed basic scientific methods in verifying the safety and efficacy of most vaccines it recommends for children.


Ladies and Gentlemen - There is an article in circulation that states that autism rates among affluent whites in California actually decrease, while autism rates among poor whites and minorities are going up, within the last decade. I think it was a study by somebody in Boulder, CO.
And as much as I am in violent agreement with everyone here at AoA - it is NOT ONLY AUTISM!

Aimee Doyle

@Cia - "We just have to accept that it’s true, that in most cases we don’t know who will react in an extreme and disabling way, and go ahead and make a decision."

I agree that vaccination is a matter of personal choice. I also think that doctors (since their oath is to "do no harm") should make every effort to determine who will react in an extreme and disabling way. Research needs to be done on why certain people react adversely - so that individuals can make an informed choice. I have always been unwilling to accept the premise that some individuals (those who react negatively) are acceptable collateral damage.

Regarding the king's face and mass delusion - I do think that this kind of "groupthink" occurs. I saw it in the run-up to the Iraq war, and I see it now in the blind faith in vaccination. I'm not sure why - I do think the media and corporate power play a role, but it does go deeper than that. Plenty of thoughtful, good people get caught up in this sort of mass delusional thinking.



I just looked it up, and yes, injected insulin can cause a whole range of allergic reactions, including death. It’s just like with everything else: nothing is safe for everyone, no drug is benign, no injection is always safe. And it doesn’t mean that one should never take them, just that the risk exists and one should always bear it in mind.

And that’s right. EVEN if you have a vaccine with no excipients, just a weakened or killed pathogen in a saline solution (and a killed pathogen won’t work without adjuvants), you’re STILL going to have many people react with vaccine encephalitis and brain (etc.) damascene, just because the immune system was alerted that the injected substance was dangerous and it mistakenly identifies its own cells, maybe myelin sheaths, with a similar molecular structure to vaccine components, as the enemy, and it mounts a vicious destructive attack on them, often chronically.

Again, just something to bear in mind. I’m not saying that anyone should or should not take any vaccine, just that the dangers go beyond specific ingredients.


I found an article from 2012 at Chef Sandwich about the people seeing the deceased king’s face in the moon. There’s a photo of both the king’s face on a currency bill and the moon. After looking at it for a minute, I saw the face very clearly. It was extraordinary.

Beleagered Autism Mom,

A few years ago when I said in a comment that sterile saline solution was always safe to inject, Mike Stevens put up a link to a study which showed that in some cases this can provoke an allergic (essentially autoimmune) reaction. Dr. Moskowitz has said that autoimmunity is in the very nature of all vaccines, part of what they always do, both for good and for ill. We just have to accept that it’s true, that in most cases we don’t know who will react in an extreme and disabling way, and go ahead and make a decision. I gave our cat subcutaneous fluid transfusions with Ringer’s Lactate when he started to go into kidney failure. It was amazing, it restored his appetite and energy, lowered his BUN and creatinine back to normal levels, and enabled him to live happily for three more years, dying at nearly 21. I’m glad I did it. But I’m sure at least a few cats would react badly to it, possibly all cats at least at a low level. I would not rule out all vaccinations ever, but it’s a matter for personal choice. I’ll look up insulin. I’m sure that it’s the same for any injected substance: in some individuals (probably all to at least a slight degree) sensitization occurs which causes the immune system to launch a destructive attack on its own systems when it perceives the substance again.

Beleaguered Autism Mom

Cia, getting an IV of saline is dangerous? Insulin shots? Ingredients don’t matter? Our bodies take things through our skin as well - just ask the women who tried to lighten their skin with mercury laced lotions. Are you saying injections of ingredients intended to “stimulate an immune response” is too simple of an explanation for the autism epidemic?

Jonathan Rose

The difference, of course, is that when Cambodians say they see the king's face in the Moon, they harm no one. It's equivalent to saying "Grandma is in Heaven", a comforting fiction in a time of mourning, which is a perfectly natural human reaction. But denying the autism epidemic inflicts terrible and ever-escalating harms on its victims. In fact, during the 2008 presidential campaign there was general agreement that autism was a crisis that needed to be addressed. But since then, in the face of the rapidly increasing incidence of autism, denial of autism has increased apace (we've always had autism, we just didn't notice it, it's all better diagnosis, and anyway autism is a "gift"). In that sense one could draw an analogy with slavery. Slaveowners insisted that slavery really benefited slaves (a "gift"), they fiercely suppressed abolitionists, and they were ultimately willing to go to war to defend slavery.


It’s not just toxic chemicals which can cause autism. It’s putting any foreign substance at all into the bloodstream, the territory constantly patrolled by the immune system. You bypass the filters and early alerts of substances entering through the mouth and lungs. You set off some degree of autoimmune reaction, which in many is very severe. It’s not as simple as Get mercury, aluminum, formaldehyde, propylene glycol, antibiotics, detergents, foreign proteins out of vaccines.

Bob Moffit


In 1738 .. wise phrase was used by Jonathan Swift in his ‘Polite Conversation’ and is first attested in the United States in the 1713 ‘Works of Thomas Chalkley’. The full saying is: ‘There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know’."

Indeed ... the "most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know" can easily describe the phenomenon we are experiencing throughout the WORLD … a raging autism epidemic that threatens to destroy our children, our communities, our countries … for GENERATIONS TO COME.

There are so many deliberately IGNORING what they already KNOW it is hard to identify the worst .. public health officials, publicly elected politicians, professional medical societies, public mainstream media, public education professionals …. to name just a few of the more culpable professions.

When that .. hopefully .. fast approaching 'TIPPING POINT" finally arrives ... I anticipate the same response the German population gave when asked to explain how it was possible for the HOLOCAUST to have occurred in their nation .. their response being … 'WE JUST DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS REALLY HAPPENING".

The true answer was given by Simon Wiesenthal … noted holocaust survivor:

"For evil to flourish, it only requires good men to do nothing."

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