Seattle Coronavirus Vaccine Skipped Critical Animal Testing
Note: Haste makes waste. Measure twice, cut once. A stitch in time, saves nine. But does a vax in time save any... when not tested according to standards? I realize most AofAers would not participate in this or any vaccine trial. But many will rush to the tests. Here is the call to participants from Kaiser. There is payment of up to $1100 for participation. Here is the survey.
...ethicists aren’t so sure that the eventual benefits of rushing this unproven vaccine into clinical trials will outweigh the risks. “Outbreaks and national emergencies often create pressure to suspend rights, standards and/or normal rules of ethical conduct. Often our decision to do so seems unwise in retrospect,” wrote Jonathan Kimmelman, director of McGill University’s biomedical ethics unit, in an email to STAT. Researchers rush to test coronavirus vaccine in people without knowing how well it works in animals
From LiveScience.com.
Researchers fast-track coronavirus vaccine by skipping key animal testing first
A clinical trial for an experimental coronavirus vaccine has begun recruiting participants in Seattle, but researchers did not first show that the vaccine triggered an immune response in animals, as is normally required.
Now, biomedical ethicists are calling the shortcut into question, according to Stat News.
"Outbreaks and national emergencies often create pressure to suspend rights, standards and/or normal rules of ethical conduct," Jonathan Kimmelman, director of McGill University’s biomedical ethics unit, wrote in an email to Stat News. "Often our decision to do so seems unwise in retrospect."
Typically, vaccine development can take 15 to 20 years, start to finish, Mark Feinberg, president and CEO of the International AIDS Vaccine Initiative, told Stat News. The lengthy process requires that scientists first give the vaccine to animals to determine whether it's safe and effective at preventing the disease in question. Only after passing through iterative tests in animal models, and being adjusted along the way, can a formulation be tested in human trials.
"When you hear predictions about it taking at best a year or a year and a half to have a vaccine available … there’s no way to come close to those timelines unless we take new approaches," Feinberg said.
From Seattle Pi on March 10:
COVID-19 vaccine trials to begin soon, volunteers being recruited in Seattle
The vaccine has never before been administered to humans, but it is similar to vaccines developed previously for the Zika virus.
"When injected into the body, the mRNA causes cells to make that protein, which can trigger an immune response. If the person is later infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus, their prior immune response may help them react to the infection with an increased immune response to fight the invading virus. The vaccine mRNA breaks down naturally and does not remain in the body," Kasier Permanente said in its post.
Eligible volunteers include healthy adults ages 18 to 55. People with certain medical conditions affecting the immune system will not be eligible. Volunteers who take part in the study are expected to go to 11 in-person study visits -- one initial screening, two vaccination visits and eight follow-ups -- and participate in four phone calls over the course of 14 months.
The study will include three groups -- each made up of 15 people -- who will get varying doses of the vaccine, all 28 days apart. The first group will receive 25 microgram doses, the second 100 microgram and the third 250 microgram.
Participants will receive $100 for each visit they attend, with a total of $1,100 for attending all of the visits. Those interested are asked to fill out a survey online.
Please read James Lyons-Weiler's new article:-
David L,
I said earlier (but it was not posted) what excellent information you had provided, maybe the best yet, that I’d be studying it and sending it to friends. Thank you!
Golden chameleon,
That was an excellent article with good advice. I’m wondering if my comment from early this morning was not posted because I mentioned the names of two drugs which had proven to be very therapeutic, one was the first one mentioned by Hyman, Chlor-, the other an antib- which had paradoxically proven to be effective even in treating vir-. I gave its name thinking it would be good for patients to ask their doctors about in case the doctors were unaware of it.
Posted by: Cia | March 18, 2020 at 04:30 PM
The L type which was more virulent was more prevalent in the early stages of the outbreak in Wuhan, and then the frequency of the L type decreased after early January 2020. During the initial Wuhan epidemic, there were 2 main strains the, WIV02 (2019-12-31)/WH19008 (2019-12-30) and MT0270641 (2020-1-29)/ZJ01(2020-1-23) and these were the basis for the potential of forming evolutionary branches during dissemination. Later just in China alone, 8 strains were identified. Newest research indicates 49 new strains were identified and one strain in particularly that was identified as the ZJ01 Strain was completely different from the earlier strains that were first identified in Wuhan. The SARS-CoV02 coronavirus is indeed mutating fast. The new evolved ZJ01 strain has a better affinity of binding to the furin-cleavage sites and it produced milder symptoms in the infected patients and less damage to the lungs and kidneys. However researchers warned although the patients from these strains recovered faster, the midterm and long term effects of the residual viral loads or dormant loads in the patients could be more harmful in the future but studies are needed to carefully observe and conclude that. https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/breaking-new-research-indicates-sars-cov-2-coronavirus-is-indeed-mutating-into-various-strains-that-have-specific-preference-of-attacking-human-host-
As new studies are showing that the SARS-Cov-2 coronavirus is mutating into various strains with different characteristics, there could be a scenario where populations could potentially see repeated attacks coming in waves, each time with a new strain https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/warning-medical-experts-are-saying-that-the-sars-cov-2-coronavirus-could-attack-in-a-series-of-waves-with-new-mutated-strains
It has also been discovered four modes now by which the new SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus that causes the Covid-19 disease can attach and bind itself the human host cells. The fact there are also more than one way for the virus to “attack’ or bind itself to human cells, does it not have implications for treatment protocols and vaccine development? Or make antivirals or treatments that were initially effective no longer potentially showing efficacy? https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/breaking-preprint-research-shows-that-sars-cov-2-has-third-binding-mode,-making-it-a-truly-potent-coronavirus-that-is-in-a-league-of-its-own
https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/breaking-new-coronavirus-research-shows-that-the-sars-cov-2-coronavirus-has-a-fourth-route-of-attacking-human-host-cells-making-it-a-real-super-virus
This information and similar need to be discussed openly just as Facebook, Google, LinkedIn, Microsoft, Reddit, Twitter, and YouTube put out a joint statement promising to fight COVID-19 fraud and curb "misinformation". https://www.zdnet.com/article/internets-largest-social-networks-issue-joint-statement-on-covid-19/
Posted by: David L | March 17, 2020 at 05:50 PM
David L,
Your links are very interesting. So the S type, the original and less virulent, originally less common type in China, is one, and the more virulent, more common L mutation, is another. Is the L type what is ravaging Iran and Western Europe now? What about the US? I assume we have both now, many cases reported from travel both to China and Italy. One article said 30% S and 70% L. Probably the L strain is dominating everywhere now?
Posted by: Cia | March 17, 2020 at 03:10 PM
I tried to tell you that it was unreasonable for you to think that your daughter could wear a mask for long hours.
It is unreasonable that nurses refusing vaccines have to wear their mask all the time too. You just don't know untill you try it. I have worn them when I was a teenager cause I am a yard mowing, horse riding, spending hours in the woods; type of gal. Yet, I have an allergy to sycamore that is just unbelievable miserable, and a mask makes it even more so. Now back to; did the virus come from Pangolins? What is being said, on some TV stations, in back page articles, and even our beloved, even though they took back the Andrew Wakefield study, The Lancet; is that in November of 2019 some one came through the wet market that was sick with the coronavirus. Thus the phrase on several news shows of - "it came through the wet market, but did not originate there". Considering the Lab level 4, and a lab level 2 is a few miles away and all, I am not being paranoid one bit that it is manmade.
HORTEZ ; why are we even listening to some that would wear such a silly bow tie, and that unshaved face! Yeah, and still he was on TV last night saying his lab has it's own coronavirus vaccine and he sooooo hopes that their vaccine will be one, among the other vaccines chose to be tested on human beings, shortly! Yes, Hortez just reeks of genius, and he is a making a vaccine!
But I don't blame him for trying to have his vaccine in the super bowl, march madness, line up!
After all he has to support that girl of his, with autism, some how!
Posted by: Benedetta | March 17, 2020 at 02:16 PM
Sigh, Cia, you could have laughed at my joke about never dying, in the Bible! Got to learn to laugh, girl, we both got hard, long rows to hoe!
That said; back to hunter gathers - Look to your authors and books all you want, but in the end; you or they were not there, long ago. Genesis and a few ancient old texts gives us a glimpse that there must have been something noticeably, obviously, wrong in the eyes of the hunter/gathers with those that were settling down, farming, and their diet. More than just the hunters were unhappy with tilling the earth, since Genesis tells two tales about food and diet in the beginning.
Recently we got a little bit more information from archeologists comparing the skull size between the two groups, and they found that skull size, brain capacity became slightly smaller in the farming societies.
Posted by: Benedetta | March 17, 2020 at 02:13 PM
David B,
Please consider the interesting and important information put up by David L. Also look at the Bat Lady article at the Scientific American on Shi Zhing’s work on bats as the coronavirus reservoir.
Yes, malnutrition makes people more susceptible to severe cases of disease. So does getting a disease which only just made the species leap from its animal vector. And then there are just diseases which are very virulent by their very nature. How many extremely healthy, well-nourished people would allow themselves to be bitten by an animal carrying rabies hoping to prove that healthy people never die from an infectious disease?
You are free to act as you will. I am horrified by what is happening in Italy and other countries in Western Europe in people of all ages diagnosed by testing with coronavirus. The Italian report at catbox said that it hadn’t caused serious disease in children under ten, but continued visiting with their grandparents was causing an alarming number of deaths in the grandparents.
We’re staying home. A relief that the vocational program for C has been cancelled. She came home on Thursday with her mask in her purse. By the time we were driving home from getting groceries yesterday, I was very hot and uncomfortable wearing the mask, albeit a cute, sleek black one with two button filters at the nostrils, sort of lower-face Batman. It may not have been reasonable to expect her to wear it for the hours she was away from home.
David L,
I’m very interested in the different strains. How many have there been in China? Did Italy and Iran both get the more lethal one(s)? What type is circulating in the US, Canada, Latin America? Australia, New Zealand, etc.? Or is there not much relevant difference between the strains? I think it would be very dangerous to conclude that we have a less dangerous type, when it is very likely that we just have not reached the explosion point yet. And it will be very interesting to see to what point we are able to contain it and reduce casualties. Or to what point mitigation rather than containment just isn’t enough.
Posted by: Cia | March 17, 2020 at 10:49 AM
COVID-19 is mutating. Image showing evolution of COVID-19 https://i0.wp.com/emcrit.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/covid88evo.jpg?resize=1536%2C1218&ssl=1
Virulence and transmission will shift over times, in ways which we cannot predict. New evidence suggests that there are roughly two different groups of COVID-19. This explains why initial reports from Wuhan described a higher mortality than some more recent case series https://academic.oup.com/nsr/advance-article/doi/10.1093/nsr/nwaa036/5775463 and https://www.bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m606
There was initially some concern that it might become more virulent instead. "Alarmingly, our data predict that a single mutation [at a specific spot in the genome] could significantly enhance [the Wuhan coronavirus's] ability to bind with human ACE2," the investigators write. For this reason, Wuhan coronavirus evolution in patients should be closely monitored for the emergence of novel mutations at the 501 position in its genome, and to a lesser extent, the 494 position, in order to predict the possibility of a more serious outbreak than has been seen so far. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/01/200131114755.htm
I think this needs to go viral: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDc_6KRaX6Q
Posted by: David L | March 16, 2020 at 08:26 PM
Benedetta,
The reason the figure dropped in other provinces in China is that their intensive care units still had enough ventilators and other equipment to save many of the people who needed their equipment, because they did not have the huge number of patients all coming in at once as Wuhan did. Wuhan, like Italy, ran out because it was crashed with a huge number of critical cases of coronavirus. According to the doctors in the audio I posted the other day, many of them were young, in their thirties, some in their twenties. That's why Italy also has a mortality rate of 7% (6.8% in the case of Italy). I read yesterday that 60% of Americans have comorbidities which would make coronavirus more serious for them. Ask not for whom the bell tolls.
I read that the US was going to call all hands on deck to produce 100,000 ventilators by the end of the year to meet the need if it's anything like what happened in Italy and is now happening in Spain, France, Germany, and the Netherlands. But we won't be able to produce that many in the next month.
Posted by: cia | March 16, 2020 at 07:10 PM
John Stone, Thanks for your Italy specific info of 2 actually verified so-called "corona-associated" deaths. Of course in over 80 years old --- REAL Facts. Thank you.
Otherwise, Cia here on AoA and Mainstream Media continue to promote vast hysteria based on absurd examples of prior human epidemics, yet failing to mention such deaths were from extreme malnutrition, and/or, the deadly results of lethal drugs (such as mercury and arsenic to treat syphilis) as an example.
Posted by: david m burd | March 16, 2020 at 04:38 PM
Benedetta,
I do not take many parts of the Bible literally. I’d have to get some of my books to prove that life for most hunter gatherers was nasty, brutish, and short. I was surprised by something in Jared Diamond that supported most men being happier as hunters than as farmers or craftsmen, but most women and children had much more comfortable lives in permanent residences.
You can look to recorded history for thousands of years to find a lot of information about both ways of life, and the casualty numbers. Anything at all. Albion’s Seed is fascinating, about many aspects of the lives of British immigrants to America: the Puritans and Pilgrims in New England, the Cavaliers and others in the South, the Quakers in the areas in between, and the Sctch-Irish in the Appalachian backwoods. Each group had many thousands who ied of contagious disease. There were cholera epidemics fairly often for a century which killed tens of thousands. Yellow fever epidemics which also killed tens of thousands. Typhoid Fever, diphtheria, malaria in everyone who lived in the South, dysentery, tetanus, my mother’s great-grandfather has his mother and four of his siblings all die of spinal meningitis in 1863. If you read Dissolving Illusions you will be devastated by the many statistics and descriptions of the tens of thousands who died of infectious diseases in the nineteenth century. I could give you statistics from the US and England on the literally tens of thousands who died every year of smallpox, scarlet fever, pertussis, measles, and diphtheria.
It is not the case that a high mortality rate proves that a disease is not natural. It might prove that those people were malnourished or lived in crowded, cold conditions. Or that the disease itself was new, having recently made the species leap, like the Spanish flu, Ebola, and SARS, MERS, and COVID. Such diseases often cause very high mortality until they are attenuated over time. But it would not be reasonable to say OK, cholera was devastating and killed nearly everyone who go it, but that was two hundred years ago so we probably cannot blame malevolent bioengineers. Nor can we probably do it for yellow fever or diphtheria. Too long ago. But however many natural explanations there may be for Ebola and the coronaviruses, since they occurred in the Vaccine Age, it is FAR more probable that they were engineered and malevolently released by vaccine manufacturers. It is NOT far more probable.
I think this is just what it appears to be. This virus was confined to pangolins, horny anteaters, up until a few months ago. It had reached a modus vuvendi with them. Then one or more humans consumed infected pangolin flesh or traditional medicine with pangolin scales, and it caused much more virulent and serious disease than it had in pangolins or bats. It will undoubtedly adapt and become less virulent, but it will take time. Other coronaviruses have adapted to humans
Posted by: Cia | March 16, 2020 at 03:30 PM
Benedetta
Thanks for all your links would just like to add that people dying in car crashes per day in America is over 100..but who cares!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year
People dying from drug narcotics per day is over 200 per day ...but who cares!
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/16/us-drug-overdose-deaths-opioids-fentanyl-cdc
How was Bill Gates able to predict in 2015 a global pandemic
Not forgetting Bill Gates
https://civilianintelligencenetwork.ca/2020/01/27/bill-gates-the-coronavirus-conspiracy/
"Recently a researcher with ties to China was recently escorted out of the National Microbiology Lab (NML) in Winnipeg amid an RCMP investigation into what’s being described as a possible “policy breach.” Dr. Xiangguo Qiu, her husband Keding Cheng, and an unknown number of her students from China were removed from Canada’s only level-4 lab on July 5, 2019. A Level 4 virology facility is a lab equipped to work with the most serious & deadly human and animal diseases (12)(13)."
Had a lovely meal of fish and chips yesterday at an Italian family restaurant (3rd generation ownership Gordon Ramsay approved) Toni said business is the worst it has ever been - no food on the shelves people just go out and eat- good deals to be had!
Pharma For Prison
MMR RIP
Posted by: Angus Files | March 16, 2020 at 02:26 PM
AND Cia if it was 17.3 percent death rate when it first hit, there is something very wrong and unnatural about it.
Grown up in a lab?
People all over- vaccinated against SARS or even the flu?
Not only did Wuhan have a lever four bioweapon lab, they also have a lever 2 bio labs that is a lab that is suitable for work involving agents of moderate potential hazard to personnel and the environment. This includes various microbes that cause mild disease to humans, or are difficult to contract via aerosol in a lab setting a vaccine producing lab.
Posted by: Benedetta F Stilwell | March 16, 2020 at 01:57 PM
Oh, and Cia;
The mortality rate when it first began in Wuhan was 17.3 percent. According to Bigtree and he got it from WHO.
As soon as it moved on outside of Wuhan to the rest of China it dropped to .7 percent.
That is because the virus as all parasites - does not survive killing it's hosts.
Korea is the only country that really has a good test. Good test unlike the United States whose tests have false positives of 80 percent.
17.3 percent found around the 17 mark on this utube.
https://www.facebook.com/HighWireTalk/
https://www.facebook.com/HighWireTalk/
Posted by: Benedetta | March 16, 2020 at 11:15 AM
Cia; How do you know that the mortality rate of hunter gathers were high?
If you look at the written history of the hunter gathers - recorded at the very first of the Bible -- they never died, they lived forever. Can't beat that. Took some fruit, or grain, or veggie to do them in.
Posted by: Benedetta | March 16, 2020 at 10:40 AM
Rome, 13 Mar 19:12 - (Agenzia Nova) - There may be only two people who died from coronavirus in Italy, who did not present other pathologies. This is what emerges from the medical records examined so far by the Higher Institute of Health, according to what was reported by the President of the Institute, Silvio Brusaferro, during the press conference held today at the Civil Protection in Rome. "Positive deceased patients have an average of over 80 years - 80.3 to be exact - and are essentially predominantly male," said Brusaferro. "Women are 25.8 percent. The average age of the deceased is significantly higher than the other positive ones. The age groups over 70, with a peak between 80 and 89 years. The majority of these people are carriers of chronic diseases. Only two people were not presently carriers of diseases ", but even in these two cases, the examination of the files is not concluded and therefore, causes of death different from Covid-19 could emerge. The president of the ISS has specified that "little more than a hundred medical records" have so far come from hospitals throughout Italy.
These are the first minimum detailed data provided so far by the Civil Protection on the causes of death of coronavirus patients. At present, in fact, the authorities are unable to distinguish those who died from the virus, from those who, on the other hand, are communicated daily to the public, but who were mostly carriers of other serious diseases and who, therefore, would not have died from Covid-19. In response to a question from "Agenzia Nova", in fact, Brusaferro was unable to indicate the exact number of coronavirus deaths. However, the professor clarified that, according to the data analyzed, the vast majority of the victims "had serious pathologies and in some cases the onset of an infection of the respiratory tract can lead more easily to death. To clarify this point , and provide real data, "as we acquire the folders we will go further. However, the populations most at risk are fragile, carriers of multiple diseases ". (Rin)
© Agenzia Nova - Reproduction reserved
Translated link https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.agenzianova.com%2Fa%2F5e6bcf1da7fbe3.23491954%2F2851060%2F2020-03-13%2Fcoronavirus-iss-in-italia-i-decessi-accertati-finora-per-causa-del-covid-19-sono-solo-due
Italian link https://www.agenzianova.com/a/5e6bcf1da7fbe3.23491954/2851060/2020-03-13/coronavirus-iss-in-italia-i-decessi-accertati-finora-per-causa-del-covid-19-sono-solo-due
Posted by: John Stone | March 16, 2020 at 04:27 AM
South Korea’s aggressive testing gives clues to a true fatality rate. With 140,000 people tested, the country’s mortality rate is just over 0.6 per cent compared to the 3.4 per cent global average as reported by the WHO https://sha.rest/uqrpbE Researchers from the University of Hong Kong have estimated the mortality rate among symptomatic Covid-19 patients at 1.4 per cent, in contrast with 3.4 per cent put forth by the World Health Organisation earlier this week. https://sha.rest/lMCdzB
A significantly higher ACE2 gene expression was found in smoker samples compared to non-smoker samples https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202002.0051/v1/download Up to 68% of Chinese men Smoke whereas only about 3.2% of Chinese women smoke. https://qz.com/521662/68-of-chinese-men-are-smokers-and-millions-will-die-because-of-it/ One third of the world’s smokers live in China. https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2020-02-13/why-most-coronavirus-deaths-have-been-chinese-men In alveoli, ACE2 is actively expressed in remodelled AT2 cells of former smokers. Together, this study indicates that smokers especially former smokers may be more susceptible to 2019-nCov.
Northern Italy has the highest rate of lung cancer in Italy, and a high rate of former smokers, from 60% in the 1960s to still 24% smoking in 2017. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.5301/tj.5000684 The new york times reported Italy, has the oldest population in Europe, and the second-oldest in the world after Japan. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/04/world/europe/coronavirus-italy-elderly.html The average age of coronavirus patients who have died because of the virus in Italy is 81, according to the National Health Institute. Italy. Casani also suggests the mortality rate might be higher than average because Italy is testing only the critical cases. Casani says that pollution in northern Italy could be a factor in higher death rates. According to a report by the Swiss air monitoring platform IQAir, 24 of Europe’s 100 most polluted cities are in Italy. “Studies have shown a high correlation between mortality rates from viral respiratory conditions and pollution,” Casani says. “This could be a factor.” https://news.yahoo.com/why-italys-coronavirus-outbreak-bad-181829021.html Note this would also be a factor in China.
In Iran, about 20% of the adult male and 4.5% of the adult female population smoke tobacco (12 million smokers according to some estimates). 60,000 Iranians die directly or indirectly due to smoking every year (2008) Smoking is responsible for 25% of deaths in the country. Approx. 54-60 billion cigarettes are believed to be consumed annually in Iran. Iranians spend more than $1.8 billion a year on tobacco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_in_Iran
Posted by: David L | March 15, 2020 at 07:15 PM
People have to understand not everyone sent to isolation needs ICU care, but they go there for treatment to receive care they would normally get in a ward to minimize transmission. That explains France. In Italy, its an extremely old population, and they dont bother to treat the oldest among the patients reserving ICU beds for the younger (sub 80 patients). The mean age of death in Italy was 81 at one point. Hence the high mortality rate.
The young in Italy ask themselves whats the fuss, nobody knows anyone who has it beyond someones grand parents.
Posted by: Pft | March 15, 2020 at 06:40 PM
Quotes from the Reuters article John Stone mentioned:
“[Dr. Peter] Hotez worked on development of a vaccine for SARS (Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome), the coronavirus behind a major 2003 outbreak, and found that some vaccinated animals developed more severe disease compared with unvaccinated animals when they were exposed to the virus.
“There is a risk of immune enhancement,” said Hotez.”
Vaccine trials are important, said Dr. Gregory Poland, “but it has to be done in a way that reassures scientists and the public that these (vaccines) are not only efficacious, but safe.”
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-vaccines-insight/as-pressure-for-coronavirus-vaccine-mounts-scientists-debate-risks-of-accelerated-testing-idUSKBN20Y1GZ
The world is watching these high-level vaccine policymakers debate, and eventually choose their "safe" threshold - that is, how many disease-free people they’re comfortable sacrificing to adverse vaccine reactions.
The polarizing pitting of disease victims against vaccine injury victims is unnecessary and cruel. If only public health officials would show a little intellectual curiosity or compassion regarding their vaccine road kill, but they just drive on without looking back
Posted by: nhokkanen | March 15, 2020 at 06:27 PM
Benedetta, love your satire wit -- thank you, and thanks for all your comments over the years.
Today here in 2020 we are now in Orwell's 1984 via an absurdly purported deadly coronavirus that has always existed.
Love your family, love your dogs and cats, love your friends, and never believe a damn word emanating from the likes of NIAID's Anthony Fauci, CDC, etc.
Posted by: david m burd | March 15, 2020 at 06:26 PM
Benedetta,
Life for hunter gatherers was very hard, infant and child mortality was extremely high. Mortality for everyone was very high. Life for farmers was a little more secure but death was an ever-present part of everyone’s lives. And living close to domestic animals introduced dozens of contagious zoonotic diseases.
People had to be alert and learn from other people’s fatal mistakes. Their immune systems learned by doing. Millions of people died of contagious disease, some people didn’t, and if it was because of a protective gene, that gene got handed down to protect future generations.
Living a natural life in the natural world kept people very close to death. I recognize that vaccines are very dangerous, but I don’t think we should forget the cruelty of the Age of Diphtheria, of Yellow Fever, of Polio, of Smallpox, of Cholera, of Spinal Meningitis, of Whooping Cough, of Scarlet Fever. Vaccines and pharmaceutical drugs are not the only scourges of human life.
Posted by: Cia | March 15, 2020 at 05:52 PM
John,
I’m glad the government there has plans for positive action, glad they’re going to produce more ventilators. I’ll have to see how many they plan to make and what the projected need is.
I read the US has similar plans, asking retired police officers and doctors to come back and allowing out of state doctors to practice out of state. And that Tump wants to produce more ventilators. I also read that they’re thinking of starting a corps of non-professionals to help at hospitals, doing certain tasks to allow the trained nurses to focus on skilled ones. Very much like in wwii I’m glad that a lot of people have put their minds to what we need and what can be done. I don’t think I’d have the courage to be on the front lines. They’re projecting that they’ll have to put up tents outside the hospitals and put beds everywhere in the hospitals where there’s room. I hope it won’t be just a place to die. With seven percent mortality in Italy, that’s all of the critical cases plus many of the serious cases.
Some are calling this the honey badger virus. I was unfamiliar with the term or the animal, saw a video on YouTube. It just keeps coming and coming, figuring out what to do to get what it wants. Sort of anthropomorphic. It will meet its needs better when it becomes milder.
Posted by: Cia | March 15, 2020 at 03:50 PM
I so wonder what the Hunter Gathers did when they ate anything that the hunter caught, and came a dragging it in. A belt full of lizards? A string of blue gill, a sake full of possum, maybe a big slab of bear meat, mixed in with some berries.
I mean, how did we ever make it as a species if there are so many virus, jumping species out there that are so very deadly?
They showed a picture of gilded pangolin armor, made of pangolin scales on the internet, that is in a museum. India gave this nice armor to King George the third, back in the 1820s. .
True, King George dove deep into madness. The Lancet in 2005 reported that the hair they collected from his tomb had arsenic in it.
So, the arsenic that the doctors pushed off on George the III, caused coronavirus from his gilded pangolin armor to go to his brain, and he was later found planting beef steaks in the ground, so he could grow steak trees to feed his people. Hmmmm?
All satire aside, Africa's population for years have been Pharma's testing grounds. I would not rule out that one in Nzara (a town in South Sudan) and the other in Yambuku ( Democratic Republic of the Congo ), a village near the Ebola River from which the disease takes its name was not visited up on by the one of seven beast's heads - if you know what I mean!
The head that "seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast".
Medicine can do wonderous things, so much we all trust them. That is why I presented my son up for the third time after telling the doctor he had reacted two times earlier. Cause, WoW we have seen what we thought fatal -- things -- healed. They ought to know, they know everything about the human body.
They know it all about the immune system too.
I have to wonder what really went on in those populations before 1976.
Just like we wonder what was going on in Wuhan, China back in 2203 or something with vaccinations.
What happened to those kids in Africa that fell asleep every time the ate a little bit?
Posted by: Benedetta | March 15, 2020 at 02:59 PM
Coronavirus mortality in Italy is now at 6.8% of patients, like that of Wuhan. Probably for the same reason, the number of patients needing ventilators etc. to survive has greatly exceeded what is available. Now half of all serious coronavirus patients in France are under sixty, while in the Netherlands it’s half are under fifty. And in the meantime, cases in the US have tripled in just five days, reaching three thousand today.
I think it would be wise for everyone to go into serious quarantine, protective equipment, and disinfection mode. Just kind of boring and stressful if we’re able to contain it, but millions will probably die if we don’t and it turns out that we should have.
I saw a tweet: the Greatest Generation was called to fight and die to defeat Hitler. All we’re asked to do is sit on the sofa and watch Netflix. We can do this! Stay the f- home.
David,
I think it is good to be aware of the deadly nature of many contagious diseases, something everyone in the world was aware of up until the last few generations in the developed world. This is a survival reflex.
Posted by: Cia | March 15, 2020 at 01:34 PM
John, it seems your cautious outlook focuses on the possibility that, indeed, THIS specific heretofore-undiscovered strain of the coronavirus does actually bring yet another pathonogen-variation that MAY cause deaths in other than elderly, and additional mortality in the already direly-ill elderly. Maybe you will proven right - maybe not (you are indeed most always right).
However, it is very strongly documented in the 2002-2003 SARS episode the MAJOR cause of the 800 +/- total world-wide deaths (762 in SE Asia, China, 36 in Canada, 1 in all of Europe, 1 in South Africa, 0 on the rest of Planet Earth) was the extremely toxic antiretroviral drugs such as the nucleoside analogue ribavirin given in strong doses. When this iatrogenic therapy was stopped, the 2002-2003 coronavirus SARS deaths stopped, hysteria melted away. I bring this up because the same type of lethal medical-treatment mistakes can happen now, given such hysteria,
@Cia, Calm down, a rich consulting contract from the CDC is assuredly in the mail.
Posted by: david m burd | March 15, 2020 at 12:31 PM
One more. A game changer. Zerohedge from today, Sunday, March 15, by Tyler Dunden, Not Just Seniors: French Doctors Report 50% of ICU Patients Under 60, Netherlands Under 50. There’s a photo of a sixteen year old with coronavirus on a ventilator in the ICU who’s been placed in a medically-induced coma.
Posted by: Cia | March 15, 2020 at 12:27 PM
Pogo,
I think that it is important that we learn more about contagious disease. Are deadly epidemics always the fault of human action? I think it is dangerous to automatically assume that that is true. A third of the population of Athens died in the plague of Athens in the fourth century BC. Many think that was from a typhus plague, some even think it was from a virus related to Ebola. What is certain is that it was a natural occurrence, as was the bubonic plague. Or sweating sickness, which killed many thousands in France in the fifteenth century and then moved to England when English soldiers brought it from France. Henry VIII’s brother Arthur died if it while Anne Boleyn got it but recovered. And then in the late sixteenth century it just suddenly and completely disappeared. No one now knows what disease it was or what it was related to. Or cholera, introduced to the world by a ship contaminated in the only part of the Indian Ocean in which it was naturally found, two hundred years ago.
There are now four strains of Ebola, and they have identified the genomes, the reservoir, and the vectors. Tens of thousands of all kinds of apes have been decimated by Ebola. Innumerable cases have been caused by humans eating infected apes or other infected mammals. Nothing unnatural, I’d say unwise and unsavory, but from the standpoint of someone with ample access to other kinds of protein.
Many viruses routinely undergo mutations which in successful cases enhance their propagation. I think that looking for ways to blame criminal or careless actions by humans is a way to try to assert control over largely uncontrollable and terrifying events.
Posted by: Cia | March 15, 2020 at 12:02 PM
John,
I agree that coronavirus has turned out to be a much greater threat to the entire world than most of us, including me, thought in January and most of February. And I agree with Bayareamom that it is of crucial importance that we take heed of reports from the field, such as Italy. Her report from Italian doctors and nurses was appalling, as was the catbox report I heard and put up yesterday. I agree that as the disease saturates our societies and overwhelms our medical systems, that more young people, like the young Chinese doctors who got and died of it, will also get and die of it in other countries. No country has enough ventilators or ECMO equipment to keep people alive until they are able to recover: that’s why so many in Wuhan died compared to the rest of China, why so many in Italy are dying now. This morning a New Jersey woman in her fifties died of it. After the US hit a thousand cases last Tuesday and two thousand on Friday, we reached three thousand this morning. That article I mentioned last night at Medium by Joscha Bach, Flattening the Curve: A Deadly Delusion, has a chart with a horizontal line showing the number of respirators available in the entire country (US), but similar in ALL countries. NO ONE has enough to even scratch the surface of the probable need (certain need in Italy and Spain). The chart shows the hopeless curve using only the five percent of cases which need intensive care equipment if they are to survive.
We are seeing exponential growth in action. And we’re conducting an immense epidemiological study now which will show us the concentration of local cases required to seriously affect young people, and how many previously healthy people are REALLY going to die for lack of respirators. And how desperate the situation has to become before each country goes into complete lockdown.
Posted by: Cia | March 15, 2020 at 11:27 AM
David,
Thank you for that generous tribute - you and I have always viewed these matters in close harmony. I think the biggest problem is with the contagiousness of this disease - it is getting so out of hand that we will no longer be resourced to cope and then more and younger people will die, so I don’t think it is not a serious situation or an illusion (as some think), it is indeed very serious. I note that today the British government has finally got a grip on what it needs do - it is hiring spare capacity in the private sector, and asked manufacturers to drop everything and make more ventilators - also talking about taking over hotels if necessary (they are unlikely to have many people in them). How, they are going to staff it all is another matter.
Posted by: John Stone | March 15, 2020 at 11:00 AM
John Stone,
You are the most trusted and calm voice, and we are all in your debt for your exhaustive work and publications over these last 20+ years. I have just reviewed the lastest UK National Health Service Trust who have itemized the 20 "coronavirus-associated" deaths in the UK (this is up to yesterday).
Of the 20 fatalities, there is public information for 15 of these, disclosing the age of these 15, along with comments that ALL had serious pre-existing comorbidities. All of these are consistent with death by pneumonia (call it corona-pneumonia if just the presence of a positive coronavirus is absurdly called the "cause of death."}
At any rate their average age at death come to precisely 80 years (similar to the Italian deaths averaging 81 years old). Importantly, the consistent annual pneumonia deaths the last 10 years in the UK is 29,000, thus for the last 3 months a little over 7,000 deaths.
7,000 all-cause-pneumonia deaths compared to 20 corona-pneumonia deaths. If you care to, I would appreciate your thoughts on this.
Thanks! for all your ceasless work, David M Burd
Posted by: [email protected] | March 15, 2020 at 10:28 AM
Hotez gets cold feet now
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-vaccines-insight/as-pressure-for-coronavirus-vaccine-mounts-scientists-debate-risks-of-accelerated-testing-idUSKBN20Y1GZ
Posted by: John Stone | March 15, 2020 at 08:56 AM
Pogo, Pft, no-vac -----
Many insightful thoughts, thanks.
It is never too late to "stand back" and review the genesis of this allegedly "new" coronavirus strain. It is entirely plausible that tissue samples from pneumonia fatalities who died years ago could yield this identical strain, and that this strain has always been present, but never looked for; after all virtually 100% of today's corona- hysteria deaths are of already extremely health compromised 70-80 year olds.
Also pertinent is the example of hundreds of millions of "corona-exposed" young Chinese have experienced zero mortality, and indeed are now protected for life being automatically "immunized." THE most reckless path to take is to create yet another toxic vaccine brought on by manipulated mass hysteria.
Posted by: David m burd | March 15, 2020 at 08:15 AM
I just wonder if those c. 30 deaths in nursing homes in Seattle were not the outcomes of secret illegal testing of a covid vaccine on the patients with dementia, who even did not know what was happening to them. The families are not allowed to visit the residents of those homes, hence we may never find out what has happened there. Perhaps some personnel will leak the info.
Posted by: no-vac | March 15, 2020 at 02:06 AM
Trial participants are 18-55 years old. Pfffft. This virus isn't a problem for that age group which affects 60+ most severely
Posted by: Pft | March 14, 2020 at 09:00 PM
I thought that might help Tim.We use Vit C high dose for a lot of bugs and it seems to work on most of them.My mothers first cousin was Dr Ewan Cameron who pioneered a lot of the Vit C protocols until he was chased from the UK and joined Linus Pauling.He once told my mother to get the kids eating oranges, and so she did quite sure I could have been peeled at one time.
https://paulingblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/17/ewan-cameron/
Pharma For Prison
MMR RIP
Posted by: Angus Files | March 14, 2020 at 05:58 PM
Cia
The puzzle I find is, why did the hemorrhagic form of ebola only surfaced in 1976 AND in two different places AND involve two different strains, when the population already had antibodies from previous exposer but no recollection amongst the population of hemorrhagic fevers AND all outbreaks ‘luckily’ (according to WHO reports), being within the areas already served by clinics enabling a rapid response, so preventing a wider epidemics in these two locations? Could it be that the local Africans to these clinics had a compromised immune system from vaccinations? Also, measles is a very different virus from ebola but is of the same family and thus measles may help to prime the naïve immune system. A retrospective study on the vaccination status of ebola victims may throw light on this but will one ever be done, as all I’ve ever heard is silence.
Posted by: Pogo | March 14, 2020 at 05:47 PM
@Cia I didn’t mean to endorse the entire article, I just found the bit on Ebola vaccine effectiveness interesting.
On another note, elevated ferritin may be predictive of susceptibility to cytokine storm.
https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2020/03/the-coronavirus-turns-deadly-when-it-leads-to-cytokine-storm-identifying-this-immune-response-is-key-to-patients-survival-report.html
Posted by: goldenchameleon | March 14, 2020 at 05:40 PM
They might just make up a FAKE vaccine for the present problem, the CDC will then buy it for billions.
It will be mandated and given out for free across the United States, and then claimed to be a great success, the Pandemic will be over, Except for the mandates, which will then be extended to cover the full Adult CDC schedule.
Posted by: go Trump | March 14, 2020 at 03:11 PM
goldenchameleon,
Thank you. I agree that the vaccine doesn't look very effective. I disagree, though, that Ebola was an engineered disease: I've read a lot about it over the years, and I think that, like coronavirus, it started in animals and made the species leap. The pangolin in the case of coronavirus, the most trafficked animal in the world for its scales used in traditional medicines, and my Panamanian friend looked it up while we were talking and said it was also used for meat. In the case of Ebola, several kinds of bat are the reservoir (as also with coronavirus), and any kind of mammal is the vector. In 2014 I read a lot about the epidemic and watched a lot of Vice videos on it. Also Jared Diamond. Yes, a big problem is nourishment. Cattle do not do well in equatorial Africa, they can't tolerate the heat and humidity. And, of course, it's vastly overpopulated. So what do you do? They themselves are bush meat enthusiasts, catching, selling, and eating every imaginable kind of animal, bush meat. And that for many people takes care of protein needs, but it leads to zoonotic diseases like Ebola and many others.
I have read that so many children die of measles in Africa because it is the custom to wean them at one year old, and between then and six years old is when most of the measles deaths occur because most of the children are malnourished and protein-deprived, being weaned onto a grain-based gruel and not getting enough meat or dairy products. I don't know why beans don't seem to have used enough to address this problem.
The article (by Jon Rappoport, of whom I am not a fan) said that no case of Ebola had ever been cured, but that is true of nearly all xases of viral illnesses. That being said, Ebola has become greatly attenuated since it first appeared in 1976, with " only" 50% average mortality rather than the almost 100% of 1976. Many people recovered, and their antibodies were successfully used to treat others, and many were found to have antibodies from subclinical cases. A few people recover on their own, and supports like fluid and other artificial life support have kept many others alive until their immune systems were able to overcome the disease.
Posted by: cia | March 14, 2020 at 03:10 PM
It looks like best practices could reduce mortaility from covid19 by 5x what we are seeing: https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2017/01/28/vitamin-c-an-update/
The trick is to use an IV of Vitamin C, thiamin, and hydrocortisone. Vitamin C alone works well (with high doses), but the combination is synergistically effective.
Posted by: Tim Lundeen | March 14, 2020 at 03:07 PM
Big tree has had these studies about making a vaccine, then giving the virus, only to have the immune system to go into over drive and killing, or almost killing every one that had the vaccine.
Keep that one in mind when thinking back on the Spanish flu, and how it hit all the army bases and around the army bases, but not much else around in the rural areas.
That said, Bigtree this time around tells the NIH gave some experimental vaccines some decades ago, and the virus made the children so much worse----- and it killed two of the children, back in day.
So let us just try that one again, some years later? Yeah? Really? What is that saying about what stupidity is?
What is the definition of heartless?
Posted by: Benedetta | March 14, 2020 at 02:48 PM
Cia
I don’t know how many of the 5,000 died of it or just died with it. I made a rough calculation that maybe 15-20m died of something else while it was going on.
Posted by: John Stone | March 14, 2020 at 02:40 PM
@Cia here is an article with more information about the Ebola vaccine:
https://vaxxter.com/ebola-ignoring-nutrition-hygiene-and-playing-politics/
Posted by: goldenchameleon | March 14, 2020 at 02:06 PM
John,
But it would be paternalistic to prohibit the development and testing of a vaccine because one didn’t think the disease was very dangerous. For the thousands who have died of it in only two months, it has been very dangerous.
Every drug and vaccine on the market have been tested in humans, to the best of my knowledge. I agree that the dangers are often extreme. But is the answer to not test drugs? It would be all right with me if they didn’t test the vaccine before licensure and I would ask only that patients have to sign a document with the known information and acknowledgment that he knew that it had not been tested. And then we’d get post-licensure data. But a vaccine is inevitable and would likely be a reasonable choice. Not certainly by any means, but very likely.
Posted by: Cia | March 14, 2020 at 01:27 PM
https://www.npr.org/2020/03/14/815624878/mouse-hunt-lab-races-to-grow-mice-for-covid-19-research
In order to test and ensure that vaccines are safe and effective, researchers typically conduct experiments on animals, usually mice. Though some labs are experimenting with ferrets and monkeys for this virus, mice are cheap and plentiful.
But researchers can't use ordinary mice. That's because the coronavirus doesn't make mice sick. Humans have to genetically engineer them to be susceptible to the virus. But it seems there are no such mice to be found.
The problem is that the genetically altered mice that researchers need have been on ice for the past few years, says Cat Lutz, senior director of the Jackson Laboratory Mouse Repository in Bar Harbor, Maine.
It's not feasible to keep the thousands of varieties of engineered mice alive in cages, so instead, mice sperm and embryos are kept frozen in cryopreservation tanks. Lutz says it's similar to what you'd find in a human in vitro fertilization clinic.
A mouse hunt
The Jackson Laboratory, a nonprofit that breeds and sells animals to scientists, has over 11,000 varieties of mice material on ice. But they didn't have the one that coronavirus researchers needed with the humanized ACE2 gene.
The question was, who did?
"We looked around the literature and noticed that there was a mouse model that was made in 2007 just for that purpose," Lutz tells NPR's Renee Montagne. "And that purpose was really to study coronavirus infections. The mice at that time were used for SARS, which is another coronavirus-related illness."
Lutz's lab reached out to Dr. Stanley Perlman, a coronavirus specialist at the University of Iowa's medical school. He sent Lutz his lab's unused frozen sperm, which was used to impregnate mice in the Jackson labs. The first batch of new mice was born March 2.
But producing enough mice to meet the demand takes time, and some help from Mother Nature.
"Gestation time is about three weeks and then it takes another three weeks for the mice to reach adulthood and be weaned from their mom," Lutz says. "Then it's another couple of weeks for them to be sexually mature. So, all in all, the generation time for a mouse is about 12 weeks."
Lutz has been able to complete multiple in vitro fertilizations, striving to meet initial orders for more than 3,000 mice from at least 50 different labs
"We're going to literally have hundreds and hundreds of mice on the ground in a very short period of time," says Lutz, "which we will then put into breeding that will basically meet the demand of the scientific community in very short order."
Cryopreservation tanks inside the Jackson Laboratory
Tiffany Laufer/The Jackson Laboratory
Human testing begins
Posted by: michael | March 14, 2020 at 12:35 PM
Cia
As things are there is barely a new pharmaceutical product which our governments wouldn't license unless they threatened mainstream pharma's profits. Ordinary people believe that due diligence has been done and no one they will encounter will apprise them otherwise. I don't think this is an alright situation.
Posted by: John Stone | March 14, 2020 at 12:05 PM
John,
But it is also coercive to say that you are certain that any vaccine will be more harmful than protective. Certainly that is my instinct, and I would neither take it nor be a test subject. I think this virus is more dangerous than many sources have said. Every adult of sound mind has the obligation to inform him or herself and decide what he thinks he should do. There are credible statistics which have arrived at as high as seven percent mortality, and this is in line with the ten percent mortality of its close relative, coronavirus-1. I’m not saying that this is true everywhere for everyone, but I think it’s important to recognize that no one has sufficient data to make any generalizations at this point, and also that public authorities have contradictory mandates to protect public health and protect economies, which in part involves reassuring the public and keeping it calm.
Everyone lives with coercion of many types. I had a student years ago whose father worked for the electrical company and worked with overhead wires. He was killed in an accident while carrying in this work while she was in my class. I thought at the time Who would work in such a dangerous job? I had two students who had worked in the ME for Halliburton. Same thing. In general the pay is better the more dangerous the work, but I think we need to let that sort itself out. Most jobs are not fulfilling enough to be staffed other than by the coercive fear of hunger and need.
I don’t believe that this is going to be a long term threat, but these are early days and I might be wrong. We cannot all live the rest of our lives in lockdown. I think a vaccine is inevitable, it’s testing on humans an imperative, and I would recommend giving potential subjects information on how dangerous similar tests have been in the past, what the track record has been on similar vaccines, and then let them decide. They have introduced an Ebola vaccine, but I have not read anything about how it is working out. And I don’t know much about the possible yellow fever vaccine. There are so many things you have to consider before even forming an opinion. But I would highly recommend reading Sonia Shah’s Pandemic and Fever, on the horrors of contagious diseases, as well as her book on pharma testing and books like Dr. Moskowitz’ Vaccines: A Reappraisal.
Posted by: Cia | March 14, 2020 at 11:53 AM
Bob,
I agree with Del... I also read a study saying those that received the flu shot will be more susceptible to the Covid 19.
I work in a hospital and last Monday we began screening all visitors and sick ones in a tent outside of our ER dept.. I can hardly wait to take my turn and ask my own question . Did you receive your flu shot this year? I of course love to tell my co-workers I will be running this place when you all get sick ,since I again refused the flu shot this year and the 8yrs prior....
Posted by: Tracey RN | March 14, 2020 at 10:43 AM
Cia
You have an ethical point about testing but then the people on whom it will be tested will either have coercive financial circumstances or dangerously poor judgment - likely they will be lied to about risk given the history of coronavirus vaccines. I don't think you have evidence on your side about the danger of the disease which is not great (apart from Wuhan) and does not justify a product which is very unlikely to be safe rushed to the market: indeed, even with much worse diseases like Ebola or Malaria there has been much more caution than this (even now with a Malaria vaccine many mainstream people think the WHO are being reckless and unethical with promoting a new product). We cannot trust the developer - and Gates has often said he would like to depopulate the earth. Also, for many it is unlikely to be a choice if it comes about. The project is unsound: even some vaccinologists have said this is not something you could bring to the market rapidly.
Posted by: John Stone | March 14, 2020 at 10:31 AM
I think we have to let people make their own decisions. Animal testing, besides being obscenely immoral and cruel, is usually not applicable to humans. To find out how it acts in humans you have to test it on humans. It has been said thousands of times that vaccines have not been proven to be safe in humans, but the only way to do that is to test them in humans. This disease is so infectious and so dangerous that most people are going to be eager to take the vaccine, even be a test subject. The alternative is to take a lot of C every day, wear masks, and stay home indefinitely. I’d pick the latter, but most people, even most people here, would not. Some countries are saying what the hell, just let it burn out while infecting everyone, so it will kill half a million, that’s just the way it goes (naming no names). There really is no good option, although I think several of them are better than others. There are completely different narratives being enacted in different countries and I don’t think anyone has the wisdom to pass judgment on them at this time.
Posted by: Cia | March 14, 2020 at 09:46 AM
China must have thought trade was going to remain in place whilst it created this mayhem for the rest of the world supported by the Gloabalists Inc...As master manipulators blame the parents/own goverments..
Lijian Zhao
Coronavirus controversy: Chinese official suggests US is responsible
“It might be the US army who brought the epidemic to Wuhan. Be transparent! Make public your data! US owe us an explanation.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZftihVyq9E&ab_channel=FoxNews
Pharma For Prison
MMR RIP
Posted by: Angus Files | March 14, 2020 at 09:19 AM
"A clinical trial for an experimental coronavirus vaccine has begun recruiting participants in Seattle, but researchers did not first show that the vaccine triggered an immune response in animals, as is normally required."
Recent Del Bigtree 'highwire" show presented a "theory" worth considering regarding experimental coronavirus vaccine … that "theory" being a previous SARS vaccine experiment in China that showed initial positive auto-bodies to SARS upon receiving the vaccine … but .. when SARS vaccinated animals were then re-challenge with SARS their response indicated the response was worse in vaccinated animals than in animals not vaccinated. For some reason not well understood .. the vaccine had induced a serious over-reactive autoimmune reaction to new SARS challenge .. making the SARS infection worse for those VACCINATED.
Dr Fauci hinted at such a possibility when he said the last thing we want to do is administer a VACCINE to millions of people that exposes those VACCINATED individuals to having even more serious experience when re-challenged with new Coronavirus exposure.
Posted by: Bob Moffit | March 14, 2020 at 08:56 AM