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Kill or Abandon: the Legacy of Denialism of Autism

Reddit War Between Moms Over Vaccination: The Vilification of Healthy Children

Hate FearHere's the nutshell version: A NC Mom uninvited a child to a birthday party because the child is not vaccinated assuming she could sicken another party guest who has a compromised immune system due to cancer treatments. Mad ensued on both sides. How is a healthy child a threat to a child with a compromised immune system? There may have been children who were shedding flu or chicken pox vaccines at the party. Or an adult who had gotten the shingles vaccine.  Were temps taken at the door? Rapid strep tests? Who is the "threat" and why are children being considered "weaponized" because they do NOT have a vaccine? It's part of the troubling trend to demonize vaccine choice. I can't think of one Mom I know who would jeopardize another child willingly. But all children live in a germ and virus filled world. I'd be more afraid of a grocery cart handle or the bathroom stall door at school for my child, than a healthy friend attending a party. Fear breeds hate. Hate breeds violence.

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A North Carolina mother says that another mom lost her cool after her daughter was uninvited to the first daughter's birthday party — due to some very serious health concerns.

A 35-year-old Redditor, who goes by dankmoms on the site, was hosting a birthday party for her seven-year-old daughter when she learned that one of the little girls who'd been invited was not vaccinated.

Unfortunately, her daughter's best friend is a cancer survivor and has a compromised immune system, so getting sick could kill her — leading dankmoms to feel compelled to uninvite the unvaccinated child, sparking the fury of that child's mother. Read more here.

Comments

cia parker

It may be (seems very likely) that D has volunteered to be part of studies on certain vaccines during pregnancy. Hep-A and hep-B four years ago, maybe flu and Tdap, and Gardasil now. I hesitate as to what to say. At the least you'd probably have to say that she probably sincerely believes that the vaccines would not harm her or her babies. How she can believe that with all the evidence that even she has seen, I don't know.

cia parker

John,

I agree that this is very bad and we have to be on our guard. I just read that Argentina just passed a law requiring that citizens show their card proving complete vaccination before being allowed to do just about anything. Several months ago a Brazilian woman commented here and I googled it and found that they do require many vaccines for babies and children in Brazil.

I'm reading a book now about the American ambassador to Germany and his family in 1933. Many of the people they meet hate and fear Hitler at a time when he had just become chancellor. That being said, anti-Semitism was the norm with or without Hitler, although, of course, he took it to new heights.

The members of the élite, medical, pharmaceutical, political, media, academic, who are designing and manipulating this campaign are very much to blame and must be fought. The little people who don't want their children to sit in the same car or go to the same party as unvaccinated children are unintelligent, nasty bullies, and I think it's fine to criticize them, but realizing that they're not the real problem. All you can do is hope they see the information on the dangers of vaccines which is more and more common with the ever-rising tide of vaccine damage. And it would be good to tell them politely, Well, I'm sorry you feel that way, and my child DID want to attend Lindsey's party, but considering that .................................., there's no way I would put my child at risk of ------------ by vaccinating him/her for .................. Plant the seed and then move on to nicer people. What else can you do?

It IS extremely sinister what Dorit and her crowd are doing. And absolutely, we have to combat any proposed measure to compel vaccination of anyone for anything. I don't know how they got their will in California, but they have tried in many other states and have failed. The scientific studies showing exactly how vaccines often do very severe and permanent damage are coming in hard and fast now, and with the autism rate one in 36 now, it's on the mind of everyone, certainly all prospective parents. It's just a matter of time now, although of course we've got to keep going and not let up. I'd really like to know what Dorit really thinks. Is she REALLY getting the HPV series during pregnancy, as she got the flu, Tdap, and hep-A and -B series during pregnancy four years ago? Or are they staged? Does she REALLY think there's any benefit to herself in doing so, and is she REALLY in denial of the manifold dangers both to herself and her children? Why would she not wait until she was no longer pregnant, or why not have gotten them back in 2011?

How is this going to play out? How much in damages will each autistic or person with autoimmune, ...., be awarded? How about the families? I read in Evidence of Harm many years ago something about families being entitled to damages for what we have gone through and for the deprivation of normal family relationships. And who's going to pay? Will it cause a severe, worldwide depression? If it does, tough, but what is it going to look like? Will players like Dorit and Offit be held liable for their lies and coercion? You can see why they're fighting so hard. Do they REALLY think they're going to convince most people that vaccines are safe? Now? After everything that's happened?

John Stone

Cia

This construct started in 2013 with Art Caplan and Dorit Reiss, turning the unvaccinated into hate targets. The governments of the world, the WHO etc have leapt at it - an we don’t know where it will end - it is relatively new but it is ugly, illiberal, unscientific, corporately based and extremely vicious. There is no basis here for saying let’s see where this extremely nasty development will go. Of course, we have to treat people with respect but this is bad ideology. Where do we go when when everyone has to have hundred of vaccines at the government say so, unless they can buy out like Bill Gates or someone.

I remember also a book by veteran German journalist Sebastian Haffner who had the stark message that two years before Hitler came to power most Germans despised him and were repelled by him. Things can happen awfully quickly. So we have to say this is very bad and we must be on our guard.

cia parker

I don't know. We discussed the Nazi genocide of Jews several years ago. Dan agreed with me that ordinary Germans did know about the persecution and genocide of Jews. I started to reread Hitler's Willing Executioners the other day, but it's so disgusting in its vivid depiction of countless (millions) of individual cases of abuse, torture, and murder of innocent people that I'm not going to be able to continue. I think once is enough.

Did that make them evil? Yes. You'd have to say that it does. If anything in the world is or has ever been evil, that was. Most Germans were anti-Semitic. You can say that that's the way they were brought up and educated, but you can say that for every abuse of human rights anywhere and at any time in history. Nearly all of them were willing either to actively participate in the genocide or sit on the sidelines, either tacitly approving of it or afraid to do anything for fear of being punished or killed themselves.

In our hearts we know what is right and wrong, and when we are causing suffering to another human being or animal. All of us are tempted to act in our own self-interest and to justify to ourselves why we are entitled to do so, and why we are superior in some way to those we victimize, what makes them deserve the treatment we mete out to them or approve of. It is a constant temptation in everyone's life, but if we love God, then we examine our actions and motivations, and try to act with both justice and love, regardless of whether this is what our social group or community encourages us to do.

I agree that the directing élite of the provaxxers tries to paint antivaxxers as retrograde, irresponsible, hysterical disease mongers who deserve to be marginalized and forced to get with their picture. This is a scam and must be resisted. But it is equally true that anti-vaxxers can be guilty of the same thing, painting pro-vaxxers as gullible sheep or nasty bullies, and contagious disease as something that has either never been dangerous, is not dangerous now to anyone, and/or that vaccines are not only dangerous but completely and always ineffective.

Few have ever contended that vaccines are 100% effective in everyone. So even pro-vaxxers who try to keep the unvaxxed out of their homes have to admit that even some of the vaxxed might still be capable of contracting and transmitting disease. But most of them would not be in the case of vaccination for most diseases. In my opinion, it's silly. But would I feel comfortable in the home of someone who's so paranoid about VPDs that he hated the idea of our having crossed their threshold? Of course they've made it into a religion, a religion which makes a mockery of true religion, but which serves the psychologically important purpose of setting up the superior group which is in danger from the inferior group. But we should not fall into the same trap. Most people sincerely believe in the vaccine narrative. I talked to a friend in St. Louis on Friday who told me as though it were surprising to her, that the flu vaccine is not effective. I knew that and added how dangerous it was, and that it had paralyzed my father for the last three years of his life. I mentioned how beneficial it was to get natural flu, giving substantial protection from cancer for the subsequent five years. But she said that everyone in her family has always gotten the flu shot every year. She's not a bad person, nor evil, has never hesitated to be in our largely unvaccinated presence.

But I don't think any comparison with the Nazis is valid. I read the other day, and saw photographs, of Jews in a town rounded up (with the help of the populace), left sitting in a field for a day with no food or water to contemplate their fate, then forced to dig their own mass graves and then shot. A minority of the people were good Gentiles who did what they could to resist, many took in Jewish children soon-to-be-orphaned and raised them as their own. But then again... I read Hitler's Furies. A shudder of horror is the only appropriate response. I read in another book about a woman who threw rolls of bread to Jews forced to work in the street outside her house. All I can say is that judgment has been made of these monsters, and the courage of the few rewarded.

I can think of current examples of atrocities which could validly be compared to Nazi crimes, but at this time, there has been no comparable crime against anti-vaxxers. Crime, yes, denial of human rights, yes, but not genocide.

anon

Antibodies do not equal an immunity and a person with antibodies can still acquire and shed the disease.

What scares me as we have seen this type of situation in history before. Can you think of a time and place where a group of people desired to protect their society from the 'unclean' or 'impure'?

If you saw another class of citizens that were losing their jobs, access to health care and other rights for EXISTING IN NATURAL FORM, many would actually see this fitting right into the classic stages of genocide. Without intervention, this will not get better. I realized how much the Germans were not 'monsters', but just ordinary people like those in our current society. Those that advocate to dehumanize 'antivaxxers' are no different (same story different verse). They have latched onto this idea of impure (diseased and dangerous) for the fellow man all because they do not vaccinate (no mention of actually antibody status as this doesn't matter, its the idea and faith in and of immunity). The process of genocide is gradual and it seems we are already have at least reached the 4th stage with our governments blessing. What will their final solution be for 'antivaxxers'?

http://genocidewatch.net/genocide-2/8-stages-of-genocide/

Bill

WOW. Just wow. There's so many things wrong with this story, that I almost don't know where to begin! First, about the woman's name on reddit, "dankmom", is interesting. "Dank", as slang, meaning "deep&dark", was originally used to describe potent strains of cannabis. It was "stoner slang". It has since come to have a larger meaning and use, but I assume, rightly or wrongly, that "dankmom" is a cannabis user. Whatever, huh? Second, she claims a child is "immunocompromised" due to leukemia. But isn't that immune system damage the direct result of toxic chemotherapy? And, if it's true that a child "could die" because of a non-vaxxed kid, then it is equally true that a child COULD DIE because of a VAXXED kid. I'm glad to see the comment from Pete, above, and I can confirm that he is 100% correct. A close friend of mine regularly uses reddit, and we have many conversations about all the problems with reddit. Reddit *IS* losing readers and users at a fast pace, for these very reasons.
Reddit even deletes comments using an automated algorithm called an "autobot". You can have a comment removed for "ableist language". When you follow the link provided, and read the ridiculous nonsense that is deemed "ableist language", you will also find a strong defense of the pseudoscience of psychiatry. Reddit, and these "SJW's", are being used as tools by the rich and powerful to stifle free speech, stifle legitimate discussion, and marginalize vulnerable persons, all under the deceptive guise that they are, well, I'm not sure exactly what they are thinking they're doing! They seem to think they can bully people into not using perfectly good words, and thereby engage in some perverted kind of social engineering. Rather than a platform for free and open debate, discussion, and education, Reddit has become a paid shill and propaganda platform for corporate control, and thought control. I suggest boycotting reddit, and letting them know you're doing it. I think reddit has ceased to be of legitimate value, and will not be missed once it's gone. Age of Autism, on the other hand, continues to increase in value to me. That's my opinion, and thanks for reading it. KEEP UP the GOOD WORK, people!

cia parker

And I should have ended by saying you can't force anyone to invite those they fear might be dangerous to others, no matter how ridiculous their fears. It is true that unvaxxed kids might potentially give a contagious VPD to others before they even seemed sick. It would be very rare and in most cases completely harmless if they did, but the risk is there. And of COURSE it's also possible for those who got live vaccines or the pertussis vaccine to transmit the germs to others. Also rare, etc. But possible. I and probably everyone here think that that's very silly, childish, and ungenerous, but there you go. We still can't force anyone to be reasonable, adult, and generous.

Dr. Moskowitz thought the greatest tragedy of our vaccinating for measles (etc.) was that children lost this extremely value opportunity to train their immune systems to give both specific and non-specific protection, priming it to respond quickly, vigorously, and effectively to any invading pathogen in the future. He attributed his lifelong and continuing good health in his eighties to his having gone through all the usual febrile diseases of childhood. I think we ought to publicize that line of thought more. There is NO replacement for natural measles, mumps, chickenpox, and rubella in giving children an excellent immune system for life. Each febrile (feverish) disease left alone (no attempt made to lower it) lowers lifetime cancer risk by about 20%, probably up to a maximum of 80%. Much lower risk of MANY diseases if you go through the natural febrile diseases, optimally in childhood. I think you'd have to point out that if most people are willing to accept a certain number of cases of death or disability from the diseases for vaccine protection in most, then they should be able to accept a small number of cases of death or disability from the diseases for the sake of effectively training the immune systems of most. And if they're not, fine, let them get whatever vaccines they want.

cia parker

I'd say who wants to go to such an intolerant birthday party anyway? At my daughter's elementary school, it was permitted for the teacher to distribute birthday invitations to other students in the class, but ONLY if every student were invited. So my daughter got an invitation to a birthday party once, her only one ever, but the phone number to RSVP had been erased with another phone number written in, which turned out to be a wrong number. In order to make sure that my autistic daughter could not go. I had a birthday party for HER birthdays every year, and for many years invited all the students in her class, and about a third of them would come and had a great time with all the games, activities, prizes, and refreshments I offered. Though I'd have to say that my daughter didn't enjoy any of them. I think that's the best autism families can do. You can't force other people to invite potentially very disruptive guests to their parties.

Angus Files

I wonder if the non-vaccinated family arranged a kids party and left the invite open to all the ones who were at the party -how many would refuse to attend the party.Probably possibly just the one at best who refused her kids into the party ,but then she would be a party pooper anyway and who wants drips at a party......I know from our own experience of having two totally unvaccinated a boy and a girl now teenagers they attended and were invited to every party going involving their peer group...what a strange mother indeed ...I hope her baby has a healthy life.

Pharma For Prison

MMR RIP

Hera

Firstly, medical information is private; not a lawyer, but does the dance school have the right to demand medical info from anyone? Any child with a cold can be a serious risk to an autoimmune challenged child. To be blunt, either they are safe to go out, or not, and avoiding unvaccinated kids isn't protection.
https://health.clevelandclinic.org/how-to-protect-yourself-against-infection-during-cancer-treatment/
For example; this advice from the above site;

Limit your contact with others — within reason. No one’s asking you to live in a bubble during cancer treatment, but reducing unnecessary contact with others lowers your infection risk and makes good sense. Try these tips:

Go grocery shopping at a time when there are fewer people in the store.
Sit away from other people at the movie theater.
Politely divert well-meaning hugs from acquaintances.
4. Stay away from family members who are sick, if possible

The chemotherapy damaged immune system does not say," I can only get sick from vaccine preventable diseases". All viruses are potentially damaging. A newly vaccinated child shedding live viruses, is of course also a risk. Similarly, given that the DTP has been proven to hide sub clinical infections, again, a healthy appearing vaccinated child may be carrying sub clinical whooping cough...
The child with cancer, if only partially vaccinated, also apparently does not meet the criteria to go to the dance school, or is there discrimination going on? Some people are allowed to be partially vaccinated? And we don't know if the unvaccinated child already has a medical reason, which can include vaccine reactions or autoimmune family history, to not be vaccinated herself. Are only some exceptions ok? And is it legal for the dance school to discriminate in that way? Of course, if any of the children going to the dance school have HIV or Hepatitis, ( the actual infection) then the dance school doesn't have a choice, in many states, as discrimination against HIV is against the law..
http://www.hepb.org/treatment-and-management/children-with-hepatitis-b/hepatitis-b-and-school/
So the child is dancing closely with a group of kids who carry who knows what infections,colds, viruses, etc but a healthy child is such a risk they should be ostracized? Doesn't make any kind of sense, and sounds more like Mommy hate going on....

Jeannette Bishop

Sheesh, I wish (not really) I could get posted in the Mail, maybe even paid for some interesting typos...the day is so early still.

Jeannette Bishop

The seems so unlikely as relayed, and even the "tweet" even feels like typical propaganda, maybe slightly dumbed down. Then they use that video of a "mom" holding a doll.

"and that child's mother through a fit" (through?) Maybe the "Femail" section is not intended for reporting? Somethink more like a gossip column?

"Do you know this woman? Email charlie.lankston..." Fishing for "story" within a "story?" Make people think if they're not vaccinating they'll be talked about in "the news?"

Pete

Reddit is full of pro-vaccine astroturfers, each one operates many accounts and has the capacity to artificially upvote/downvote on a large scale. They are regularly making up fake stories to push their paid pro-vaccine agenda, sometimes they reply to themselves and forget switch accounts giving themselves away.

It's quite concerning seeing the mainstream media take up such stories as if they have been proven as fact when they are more likely fiction. Reddit once published data of which cities use Reddit the most, Eglin Air Force Base came up top, the information has since been removed their site.

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