If an MD does malpractice, said doctor will face trial or charges in court. What happens to the big "Pharma" when the "malpractice" comes from them in the case of injury to children? The injured children are the ones who have autism and other neurological problems as a consequence of heavy metals in vaccines.
I agree with David. There is no true information on the part of the Pharma. Parents were not properly informed about the "preservatives" in vaccines, such as Thimerosal among others, at least I was not told about that when my child was vaccinated at age 2 and right after that he started to show symptoms of regression, PDD, Asperger's, ending up being diagnosed with ASD when he was in 7th grade.
Governments are on the Pharma side making us believe they are on our side. If they were, they should have forbidden the inclusion of toxic preservatives in vaccines.

Linda, you're right, that's a huge increase. I'm not sure if your question to Eindecker was rhetorical, or you were hoping he would have to fathom it out, but my suggestions would be, some people are getting the measles as adults, when it will be more dangerous, and many are getting it before the age of one, because their mothers didn't have the disease as children and are not able to confer immunity on their babies. Whatever the reasons, your basic point is true that the use of the vaccine during the last fifty years has created a worse public health outcome than if we had continued without it.

Benedetta,
Tell your son not to listen to those who make jokes about young people still living at home. Here in the UK we have a housing crisis and the younger generation can't afford to buy or rent, so many stay at home. It works well for me and my son, who's in his 30s - he looks after the house and I look after the housework. Actually, I think I'm getting the better deal. Of course, young people really want to be independent, so we have to gently explain to them the harsh realities of life out there. If your son has some independence in other areas of life it may feel less of a problem. In later life, when he understands more, he'll be so glad that you made that provision for him. Good for you!

EVERY VACCINE HARMS
EVERY TIME

Pharmster to answer you in detail
I think that's a highly misleading comment. We are talking about changes in living conditions. Of course you can find countries that have living conditions that we had 100 years ago but that's not what we are discussing here.
The ref I gave on diphtheria epidemiology in the UK during WWII refutes the idea that it’s down to changes in living conditions, of course improving living conditions do help, but the dramatic drop in cases and deaths from diphtheria could only be due to the introduction of the vaccine
To me it seems that Diphtheria is associated with poor living conditions. For whatever reason notifications of diphtheria, as well as deaths, decline once an adequate toxoid immunization program is in place
If you reduce the toxic effects of bacteria you see less cases and less deaths. That's it.
Nothing of this shows that you eliminate toxic strains. That's conjecture. Actually Pharmster it’s not conjecture it’s a fact, However, immunization with toxoid also decreases rates of carriage of toxin-producing strains, but not of nonvirulent strains (Pappenheimer, 1980). see https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/diphtheria-vaccine for discussion of why this may be.
Yes there are millions of deaths from measles in some areas of the world but that does not mean that measles would kill the same number here.
Italy, a modern European country is in the middle of a measles outbreak, in the 12 months up to June 2018 there were 3967 cases of measles notified and 6 deaths consequent to measles were reported. Actually quite a high mortality rate but it’s the same old story 1 death for every 2 or 3 thousand cases of measles even in countries with good health care systems. In the same period France notified 2500 cases and 3 deaths,
Referring to the overall European situation Of 11 592 cases (90% of all cases) with known age and vaccination status, 83% were unvaccinated, 10% were vaccinated with one dose of measles-containing vaccine, 5% were vaccinated with two or more doses, and 2% were vaccinated with an unknown number of doses. The proportion of unvaccinated cases was highest among children below one year of age (93%), who are too young to have received the first dose of the measles-containing vaccine. https://ecdc.europa.eu/sites/portal/files/documents/Monthly-Measles-Rubella-monitoring-report-July-2018-1.pdf
I don't think that the numbers of deaths from 80 years ago would be the same as today.
People still die of infectious diseases in the 21st century, even with the best medical care: a small outbreak of Haemophilus influenza b in Minnesota during 2009 killed one child: One of the five Minnesota Hib meningitis cases was in a 5-month-old child too young to have finished its first series of Hib shots. Another case was in a child who got all the shots but who turned out to have an immune deficiency.
The other three cases -- including the death -- were in infants whose parents refused to vaccinate them. Parents of two children objected to vaccines; the parents of the third child were waiting to vaccinate until the child was 5 years old. https://www.webmd.com/children/vaccines/news/20090123/hib-outbreak-kills-unvaccinated-child#1
Re tetanus suggest you look at this for US data https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6012a1.htm Among the 92 patients for whom tetanus toxoid-containing (TT) vaccination status was available, 37 (40.2%) had received no doses of TT vaccine.

Thank you, Benedetta, I just ordered a Nolo book on how to get and keep SSI. I bought an excellent Nolo book on making a third-party special needs trust, used it and copied their form typing it myself, you would be AMAZED at how nasty both SS and Medicaid were about it. I sent Medicaid a copy of the trust I copied from the book, just personalizing it where necessary, and Medicaid sent me a letter on Friday several weeks ago saying I had until Monday to give them proof that it really existed at a bank, or they'd throw our whole case out. So the boy at the bank wrote a nice letter saying that they had reviewed and accepted it. The government taxes interest on third-part special needs trusts at a very high rate, over 30%, I think, but you only have to pay taxes on it if it earns over $600 a year in interest. All my assets, (may not be anything left by the time I die), including our house, will go to it when I die, and my successor trustee(s) will have to fool with it. Surprising that the government and its agencies want to continue to screw those they've disabled even if you might have thought they had already done their worst. We still have a doctor's appointment in Jeff City in September for getting approved for Medicaid. It sounds like Medicaid has a new program for paying the rent on housing for the autistic, a Medicaid waiver, I really don't know anything else about it. C insists that she wants to move out and be independent, and is very hostile about it. Our county case manager agrees that she'd have to have someone looking out for her, so I don't know what's going to happen. I've told her that we'll look and see what our options are after she graduates next spring. I'm worried about keeping track of how we spend the money, it seems overwhelming. I don't know how much it's going to be, I spent an hour and a half getting the silly vaccine exemption form and it didn't even have meningococcal disease on it. I checked off all the diseases listed and in the blank for Other put meningococcal, flu, and anything else. So they're making a big deal out of making everyone with religious exemptions do it again for this new required vaccine, and it's not even on the form. And I've got days of translations to do piled up, I haven't had time to call the woman at Social Security. I've been translating all afternoon. I think it will be a lot more than $500 a year. You have to charge your adult child for their share of the rent, dividing it up among those living in the house or apartment, or you get penalized by SS. I'm not sure if you're supposed to charge for utilities and property taxes as well as rent, or just some of them. But I realized that whatever I get to charge for rent is mine to do with what I want to, for food they say that you can't spend more than what they allot you for food or you get penalized a third of the SSI benefit, but parents who can afford it go ahead and take the penalty, as what they give you isn't enough to eat reasonably well. I'm not sure yet how detailed the records of what I spend on food have to be. I may have to check out of stores in three steps: things just for me (all those herbal remedies to help me sleep), things we both eat, and things only for her. Except that I don't think anyone else does it that way.

Thank you. I also wish I just didn't have to deal with this, that paying for college were the biggest of our problems. I also liked Vaccines 2.0, I was thinking as I read it the other day that it's fun to read and has a lot of good information in it.

Benedetta,
Sorry, I just looked at the copyright of Vaccines 2.0. I remember I got it in February, but it was THREE and a half years ago, not two.

CIA Parker while you are doing all that reading - read this one too.

https://www.amazon.com/Vaccines-2-0-Careful-Parents-Vaccination/dp/1629147311/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1534901400&sr=8-1&keywords=vaccine+2.0

Eindecker back to August 17th on glyphosate in breast milk, lets just say the "overweight lady" is still deciding what she wants to sing. This recent announcement: https://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Brazil-Poisonous-Agrotoxin-Found-Over-80-of-Breast-Milk-Samples-in-Urucui-20180809-0008.html.
At the bottom is google translate of the abstract from Portuguese to English. The detection method used HPLC. Beyond that, it it is going to be self-explanatory because it is way beyond my pay grade.

Also from reading--glyphosate becomes embedded in protein and can be left undetected if not freed up from the peptide chain. This can be accomplished using enzymes. From the Samsel Seneff paper:

"In 1989, Monsanto researchers conducted an experiment on exposure of bluegill sunfish to 14C-radiolabeled glyphosate [89]. One of us (Samsel) obtained the (unpublished) report from the EPA through the Freedom of Information Act. The researchers had found that, with EDTA extraction, the amount of radiolabel in tissue samples was much higher than the amount of detected glyphosate. They decided to apply a digestive enzyme, proteinase K, and discovered that this “caused a substantial improvement in extractability”. It brought the yield from 17–20% in the case of EDTA to 57–70% following digestion with proteinase K. They summed up as follows: “Proteinase K hydrolyses proteins to amino acids and small oligopeptides, suggesting that a significant portion of the 14C activity residing in the bluegill sunfish tissue was tightly associated with or INCORPORATED INTO PROTEIN” (present authors’ emphasis). In this context it is important to recall that a 60- to 120-fold higher detection level of BMAA was obtained following protein hydrolysis of contaminated proteins [84]."

The Washington State Univ. study likely missed what was present by not using an extraction process to free up glyphosate or its metabolite.

Abstract:
ABSTRACT: Glyphosate is the pesticide with the highest potential risk to human health because it is the most commercialized in the world, in Brazil and in Piauí. Based on this reality, this study aimed to evaluate the contamination of maternal milk by glyphosate agrotoxic in puerperas attended at public maternity hospitals in Piauí. We adopted a cross-sectional descriptive and cross-sectional study design applied in the municipalities of Teresina with 164 participants, Oeiras with 27 and Uruçuí with 13 participants. A method of laboratory analysis of the samples of breast milk applied to the technique of high-performance liquid chromatography coupled to ultraviolet radiation detection diode, through the derivatization reaction of glyphosate and its metabolite aminomethylphosphonic acid by 9-fluorenylmethyl chloroformate. After experimental tests, the method chosen for the analysis of breast milk samples was the isocratic gradient using the solvent acetonitrile 10%. It was tested in triplicate and the presence of glyphosate and aminomethylphosphonic acid in chromatographic peaks in the range of 263 nanometers (nm), with a correlation coefficient (r) equal to 0.9993, calibration and confirmation of its efficiency and linearity. Analysis of breast milk samples was limited to the detection of both substances. A total of 62.5% of the samples collected in Oeiras and Uruçuí were detected, with 64% of them being glyphosate or aminomethylphosphonic acid. When disaggregating by municipality, contamination was verified in 46.1% and 83.4% of samples analyzed from Oeiras and Uruçuí, respectively. It was concluded that the contamination of the mother's milk by the agrotoxic glyphosate was high, proving its severity and importance as a risk factor for the health of the woman and the child. ABSTRACT: Glyphosate is a herbicide with the greatest potential risk to human health because it is the most commercialized in the world, in Brazil and in the State of Piauí. Based on this reality, this study aimed to evaluate the contamination of maternal milk by glyphosate agrotoxic in puerperas attended at public maternity hospitals in Piauí. We adopted a descriptive correlational study of cross-sectional applied in the municipalities of Teresina with 164 participants, Oeiras with 27 and Uruçuí with 13 participants. We developed a method of laboratory analysis of the samples of breast milk applied to the technique of high-performance liquid chromatography coupled photodiode detector array, through the derivatization reaction of glyphosate and its metabolite aminomethylphosphonic acid by 9-fluorenylmethyl chloroformate. After experimental tests the chosen method for the analysis of the samples of breast milk was the isocratic gradient using the acetonitrile solvent to 10%. It was tested in triplicate and when passing through the detector we verified the presence of glyphosate and aminomethylphosphonic acid in chromatographic peaks in the range of 263 nanometers (nm), with correlation coefficient (r) equal to 0.9993, which led to the construction of the calibration curve and confirmation of its efficiency and linearity. Analysis of breast milk samples was limited to the detection of both substances. A total of 62.5% of the samples collected in Oeiras and Uruçuí were analyzed, where we detected presence of glyphosate or aminomethylphosphonic acid in 64% of them. When disaggregating by municipality, contamination was verified in 46.1% and 83.4% of samples analyzed from Oeiras and Uruçuí, respectively. We concluded this study by showing the high contamination of the breast milk by glyphosate agrotoxic, proving its severity and importance as a risk factor for the woman's health.

Comments made in the interest of science.

Pharmster, tetanus spores haven’t miraculously disappeared from the soil, from dirt have they, yes it’s better wound hygiene but also widespread immunization with toxoid vaccine that’s caused the decline in tetanus. The age profile of tetanus has shifted to the elderly because of waning immunity, hence the recommendation to get a booster shot in middle age. If you want a dramatic illustration of the efficacy of tetanus toxoid vaccine look at the comparative incidence of tetanus in US armed forces in WW1 then in WW2 when immunisation was used by the Americans, but not by the German or Japanese forces in that war who had much higher rates http://history.amedd.army.mil/booksdocs/korea/recad2/ch6-6.html
I'm unclear what message you are trying to put across here, did you open the ref giving UK experience of diphtheria over a century, the dramatic drop in cases and deaths over 4-5 years can only have been due to diphtheria toxoid vaccine, there was a war going on and life was v hard in the UK, both during the war and for a decade or so after 1945, so there certainly were no change due to environmental factors to account for this drop.
I'll give you 2 other instances of dramatic declines in disease incidence following the introduction of vaccines :
Hib https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/407089/Graph_showing_Haemophilus_influenzae_type_b_laboratory_reports_2014.pdf Hib lab reports went from 300/quarter to c 20, in a matter of a couple of years following the introduction of this vaccine and this is well into the era of modern antibiotics and doctor's awareness of the importance of treating meningitis, so again no societal changes can account for this.
There's a far more recent example, the introduction of meningitis C vaccine http://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/menc-vaccine see graph at the last page showing lab confirmed cases of meningococcal C disease dropping from >800 to c 20 in 5 years following the introduction of the vaccine

My understanding is that diphtheria bacteria (various species) are ubiquitous, but can become dangerous, toxin producing, in the presence of a virus (B phage?), rather like scarlet fever. Makes me wonder if the vaccines that seem most effective (in terms of titer readings years later) are the ones for microbes we're continually exposed to (continually generating the antibody arm of immunity maybe), but are we actually effectively programmed to fight a dangerous case of diphtheria when the right circumstance for that occurs?

Pfarmster,

Tetanus is killing 2.6 people a year now because close to 100% of Americans have gotten the tetanus series, which gives protection for at least forty years. I've read that most of those who get tetanus are elderly people who haven't gotten a booster in a long time. And it's also true that not many people have contact with horse manure the way they used to. But it's also true that we continue to have contact with the poop or decayed-in-the-ground poop of dogs, cats, guinea pigs, and, really, all mammals, including humans, which has tetanus spores in it. Also true that most fertilizer now has been sterilized to kill things like tetanus spores. There are too many factors involved to give even a rough estimate of how many people might get clinical tetanus if no one vaxxed for it. I'm glad I got a tetanus booster when Chiara (we changed her name to Killer) the gerbil bit both of us, and would hang on and not let go. She had a leg wound from the breeder which never healed, caused her chronic pain, and her premature death from sepsis, I'm not blaming her, but I was a little concerned about tetanus from the bite wounds. But if it's true that vaccine protection lasts forty years, I'll probably never get another one.

I learned in the Plotkin and Mortimer book that a certain percentage of the population has immunity to tetanus from natural exposure to low levels of the toxin. It's probably true that that was as true a hundred years ago as it is now. But at this time I don't think anyone knows if they're naturally immune or not, nor if their tetanus vaccine protection is still working.

I just looked up the population of the US in 1921, it was 108.5 million, and now it's 326,766,748 million. So closer to three times more rather than the four I said in my previous comment.

"Which is not going to happen, at least for diphtheria and tetanus. We would have to see if a toxigenic strain came back and how deadly it was."

Tetanus in the United States is killing 2.6 people each year. At least some people are not immune against it. If we said that all of these are not immune and 1% don't have immunity against tetanus that would be 260 deaths each year if no one vaccinates. I would say the percentage that is not immune is possibly higher so I don't see how tetanus could ever come back in a big way regardless of whether or not people vaccinate.

Pfarmster and Jeannette,

The WHO article I linked at the bottom of my comment last night said that in the 1970s in low and middle income countries there were fifty to sixty thousand deaths a year from diphtheria, but when the diphtheria vaccine was introduced in the '80s there was a 90% reduction in diphtheria between 1980 and 2000. And that's recent history.

Sure, we could say that most of people in the First World are healthy and well-nourished enough that we probably wouldn't die of diphtheria if it came back, but the old, very young, immune-compromised, and marginally- or ill-nourished even in the First World would probably be hard hit if no one vaxxed. Which is not going to happen, at least for diphtheria and tetanus. We would have to see if a toxigenic strain came back and how deadly it was.

I believe financial warfare was the major driver in loss of life expectancy (probably including increase diphtheria incidence and mortality) in Russia. Not something to dismiss as we are poised to perhaps undergo the something much the same here in the U.S. (if not more of "the west") if the same players get away with it here as well, but vaccination status may not provide any meaningful protection:

"Russia in the 1990s was a case in point. During that decade, there was significant political and social turmoil. Russian literature points out the the vaccinated develop diphtheria and that mortality is highest in those who are malnourished and alcoholic. In 1994 male life expectancy dropped from its high of 65 years down to 57 years in Russia. (337) Belarus data from 1990s show that highly vaccinated Russia still had diphtheria.

"'The analysis of vaccination history shows that out of 11 cases 7 (63.6%) were vaccinated according to schedule, 4 vaccinated but not according to schedule. (338)'

"An outbreak in St Petersburg, Russia, occurred in the 1990s. More than 2500 cases were in that city. A complete analysis of the vaccination history and disease severity was undertaken. The authors concluded that vaccine immunity is 'short lived' and that:

"'If a wide diphtheria epidemic affects an industrialized country, it would probably not any more be the big killer that it was in Europe and in the United States in the 19050s and 1960s. (339)'"

(Dissolving Illusions by Humphries & Bystrianyk, p. 203-4)

They go on the describe some benefits observed with high vitamin C dosing against bacterial toxins. Something worth adding to any health training and application IMO.

I believe some of the graphs of the section on diphtheria are here:

http://www.dissolvingillusions.com/graphs/ (starting with graph 16)

Cia, Pharmster, David here’s some UK epidemiological evidence on the role of toxoid vaccine in the elimination of diphtheria:
Graphs showing UK incidence of diphtheria & deaths 1914-2014 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/450155/Diphtheria_notifications_deaths_Eng_Wales_1914_onward.pdf
Information on introduction of toxoid vaccine in the UK
The outbreak of the Second World War provided the necessary impetus to introduce diphtheria vaccination with central government allocating funds to local authorities to meet the costs of introducing the programme. By the end of 1942, a third of all children under 15 years of age in England and Wales, and a half of all in Scotland had been protected against diphtheria. https://peopleshistorynhs.org/encyclopaedia/childhood-vaccination-and-the-nhs/
Why did the disease decline before this in the US, but not apparently in the UK? The use of horse anti-toxin was more common in the US “One of the most infamous outbreaks of diphtheria was in Nome, Alaska; the "Great Race of Mercy" to deliver diphtheria antitoxin is now celebrated by the Iditarod Trail Sled Dog Race Of course improved living conditions also helped, but the precipitate drop in cases following the introduction of toxoid vaccine in the UK, in the middle of the second world war, was clearly the major driver.
As to why the anti-toxin vaccine should result in a drop in the number of cases, as well as deaths, this may well be that the disease in vaccinated individuals is relatively less severe with no toxin effect “ In the UK, the classical disease is now very rare and clinicians may not recognise it. Milder infections (without toxin production) resemble streptococcal pharyngitis and the pseudo-membrane may not develop, particularly in vaccinated individuals. so clinicians may not have recognised the disease as diphtheria, some references refer to it as being no worse than a sore throat in vaccinated individuals.

@ Cis Parker,

In your latest Comment you say: "Diphtheria was decreasing in incidence, probably because of better nutrition and housing, but it was still killing thousands a year when the vaccine was introduced."

Don't you listen?! My prior Comment way back on this thread regarding Diphtheria deaths in the U.S, for children under 5 years age, per the United States Vital Statistics, on mortality for 1948 was less than 500 for that year. Yet you cite "thousands."

It's sensible to project that without ever having the damn very-toxic DtaP vaccine, this mortality would have kept going down toward zero via proper nutrition, etc. and/or improved medical care.

Please, stop your fear-mongering that is not justified,

Pfarmster,

It is premature to say that the toxigenic strains have disappeared. I found in one book that diphtheria experienced a resurgence every eight years and another book said ten years. Pertussis resurges about every three and a half years, and measles and chickenpox, I think it was every two years, but I'd have to look it up and I'm translating right now. Eindeker mentioned an organism which parasitized some forms of diphtheria: it would be interesting to know more about that. I think we'd need worldwide statistics over maybe twenty years of the strains of diphtheria carried by sample populations. Maybe the toxigenic kind has disappeared or will disappear. English sweating sickness killed many thousands in France and England in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries, brought over from France in a war, and then completely disappeared so that no one knows exactly what it was. Henry VIII's brother died of it and Anne Boleyn nearly died of it. Some noble families lost all their children to it, and then it just disappeared.

Laura,

I just read your articles. The first one was only about the measles outbreak in California and the MMR. I am in favor of permitting all healthy children to get measles and I am against the MMR, although I would warn women that they need to have a plan if they're planning to get pregnant at some point, or even might become pregnant accidentally, if rubella comes back. Natural exposure would be best, I would like my daughter to get natural exposure to M, M, and R, but I don't know how to do it. It could be done on a national level, but isn't available now. So that leaves the nosode as the only safe option other than the unsafe vaccine.

Your second article was about advice to parents, and I have several concerns with it. I agree that some of the major contagious diseases were decreasing in incidence in the First World before the vaccines. Measles, however, was still infecting 99% of American children by the age of 18 in 1963, the year the vaccine was introduced. A good thing, but it was not decreasing in incidence. Both pertussis and measles became naturally attenuated, so that they were no longer nearly as dangerous as they had been. But when the less effective DTaP was introduced, pertussis made a reappearance so that it is now a very common disease. Only dangerous to a few of the youngest newborns and the immunocompromised, but it's common enough that it should be protected against in these groups. Isolation and nosodes. Scarlet fever has virtually disappeared in the US, and for a while it was the biggest killer of them all. Still around as strep throat: you should wait two days before starting antibiotics, to give your immune system time to make antibodies to it. Diphtheria was decreasing in incidence, probably because of better nutrition and housing, but it was still killing thousands a year when the vaccine was introduced. So we're back to the question: is it better to knowingly promote not vaxxing for diphtheria KNOWING that it will cause thousands of babies to choke to death, because you want to see if it will eventually fall to low levels or disappear by itself with no vaccine? How many parents would go along with that? Same with tetanus, polio, and Hib disease.

You advocate breastfeeding, keeping infants at home, not taking them to the supermarket, daycare, or doctor's offices, giving them only nutritious organic food. I do too. But we had a discussion here a few weeks ago about how it wasn't possible for most American families to be able to afford any of these measures. And, even if you left the baby with a babysitter while you went to the store, it would be common for the mom to catch a cold or flu while standing in the checkout line or touching a bin with organic apples that an infected person with germs on their hands had just touched. And then the mom would take the germs home with her. And if the baby has a severe cough which is interfering with breathing, she's going to have to take him either to a doctor or to the ER, with all their germs. My daughter was breastfed until self-weaning, which turned out to be exactly five and a half years old. I only bought organic food for her. But she still caught pertussis at 18 months old at a La Leche League meeting, a bad flu probably at a play group at three and a half years old, a bad flu with severe vomiting which lasted a week at nearly five years old, chickenpox at nearly two, a bad summer flu with vomiting at seven, which started her bowel disease, the EV-68 virus four years ago at fourteen, bronchitis several times which caused months of coughing, and many other colds and flus. And all of that was good for her immune system, but it wasn't that years of breastfeeding and organic food protected her from the diseases.

No vaccine is 100% effective, and no one has ever claimed that status for them. A 90% effectiveness rate is probably the average effectiveness rate. But they do usually reduce incidence by at least that much. The pertussis and flu vaccines are much less effective than that. But the reason that no one, unfortunately, gets chickenpox or measles anymore is because close to everyone has gotten the vaccines. I think it is fortunate that no one gets tetanus, diphtheria, polio, or Hib disease anymore, but that is because nearly everyone has gotten the vaccines for them. I think it's better to look at the diseases, incidence, mortality, virulence, and vaccine reactions individually, and then look at the total number you are considering, and the age and health status of the person contemplating vaccination or having it contemplated for him.

I don't trust the government, and I am aware that no vaccine has been tested against a completely unvaxxed control group. Of course they should be. But in the meantime, you have to look at how many people who have gotten the vaccines I mentioned have not gotten either the diseases or severe vaccine reactions to these vaccines. I don't think it would be good to refuse these four vaccines on principle and then in some cases have the child die or be crippled by them. And you have to look at the evidence put forward by those doctors who have had good outcomes using their reduced vaccine schedules. As well as the outcomes of those who got these vaccines before the Vaccine Epidemic of MANY vaccines being routinely given after 1990.

It is not the case that vaccines cause only harm. Vaccines have saved the lives of many who would otherwise have died of diphtheria, tetanus, or Hib disease, or have died or been crippled by polio. And a number of lives from the other diseases, too, but there you get onto the turf of a lot were permanently damaged by the vaccines, while the diseases are not usually as serious as the ones which most concern me, so it gets harder to make comparisons which result in overall benefit from the use of the vaccine(s). If you forbid Prevnar, for example, then you have made yourself responsible for those who die of pneumococcal disease who would not have died if they had gotten the shot. I'm willing to say that I would not recommend Prevnar, recommending instead the nosode if desired and the health-promoting measures we agree on, if the family is able to provide them, but I'll also say that the disease DOES kill a certain number of people, and the vaccine DOES have dangers, but would in many cases protect against the disease. Serotype replacement and the many reactions to it ARE factors which everyone should know and consider, but it is still true that the disease CAN be dangerous, even deadly, for many people.

And as for pets, it is a good thing that rabies is very rare now in pet dogs and cats, because most of them get the rabies vaccine. Also true that most of them get too many: it is thought that one, at most, two rabies vaccines will protect most animals for life, and overuse of the vaccine causes cancer in many pets now. But you shouldn't completely forbid the rabies vaccine, because it would result in the horrendous death of many animals of rabies, as well as the deaths of a certain number of humans who got rabies from them. Feline distemper is an evil disease, and the vaccine CAN cause adverse reactions, including kidney failure, but it is considered the most effective vaccine for any species, including humans, meaning that it has saved the lives of millions of kittens. It gives protection for at least seven years, probably for life in many cases. So I don't think that it should be forbidden, but it does have dangers, and its use, like that of all vaccines, should be minimized.

Pfarmster,

The tetanus vaccine is similar to the diphtheria vaccine in that both of them target toxins produced by the pathogens and not the pathogens themselves. And that makes the diseases particularly dangerous, as the tetanus and diphtheria toxins are among the most potent and deadly in the world. Right up there with poison ivy toxin. Infection with the diseases really doesn't matter as they are usually mild in themselves.

Laura,

I'll read the articles you linked, but it's not fair to say that you don't think that healthy people would suffer disability or death from the contagious diseases. A large percentage of the people in every society are not healthy and many cannot become healthy, for various reasons. And of course individual health is important, but at least as important is the virulence of the infecting pathogen, and if it is very virulent, then it will fell and kill even the healthiest individuals. Especially since the healthiest individuals have very active, alert immune systems which often mount so vigorous a response to the disease that its very response is what kills. Inflammation is its primary response, and this inflammation can itself kill. As in the Spanish flu, in which healthy young adults in their twenties and thirties were the hardest hit and the most frequent fatalities. And new pathogens often have a very high fatality rate, because no one's immune system has seen them before and it doesn't know how to respond to vanquish it. That's why diseases that had become relatively mild in Europeans, Africans, and Asians, such as measles, were so devastating and killed 90% of the indigenous Americans after the arrival of the Europeans. And why Ebola had almost a 100% kill rate when it first appeared in people in 1976, and also why mortality had fallen to around 50% four years ago in the pandemic in Africa: people's immune systems were starting to learn how to cope with it. And many people got subclinical cases and antibodies that way, which is the way it always works. Probably subclinical cases are being contracted from sewage infected with minimal levels of the virus even now. In another fifty years, Ebola will probably have become like chickenpox, fairly mild and universal in Africa. But if the vaccine for it works, and it may, then most people will get the vaccine for themselves and their children, and the natural process will be disrupted. You could say that in the long run it's better to just let tens of thousands of people die in agony so that their descendants may benefit from the eventual natural process of attenuation. And there's something to be said for that, but only if you're mainly concerned with the whole population and not with the individuals involved. And, again, I wish they would do large-scale studies of the effectiveness of the nosode or crotalus horridus in protecting people from Ebola with homeopathy. That would be a much better answer, if it worked as well as I think it probably would.

Posted by: Grace Green | August 18, 2018 at 05:31 PM

I think you are one of the better people posting here. No doubt.

Please go to AutismOne.org and view the 2018 videos.

Something has happened the perpetraitors never figures on, is that science has swept past them, and that communication would improve to this degree.

I really feel they are clinging on now.
They are spending their time blocking science that exposes them.
They are spending their time locking down the internet because the narrative is in freefall.

Cia, Endecker .......

Number 20 . Nagalase surreptitiously secreted into vaccine to promote cancer ?

That's good. Eindecker can spout his nonsense but Age of Autism has decided that it doesn't want actually consistent anti vaccine voices and only wants people who say "vaccines are great but just need to be made a teensy bit safer" so my responses get moderated.

Grace,

I am inclined to agree with your assessment. It is not a pleasant reality, but one that we must face.

Pfarmster,

Plotkin and Mortimer said that the evidence for the success of the diphtheria vaccine was indirect, so to speak, but I agree with them that it is convincing. As soon as every country has introduced the diphtheria vaccine (and Hib, polio, measles, tetanus, chickenpox, etc. vaccines) rates start to drop, even precipitously drop, until very few or no cases occur and most people have vaccine antibodies in their blood. I'm not saying that it's necessarily a good thing, measles and chickenpox are very healthy for children to get, I'm just saying that that's what happens, and there really is no other logical explanation for it.

Dr. Richard Halvorsen, in Vaccines: A Parent's Guide, p. 63: "The (diphtheria) vaccination campaign was hugely successful. By 1943, half of all children in the UK had been immunized. Though the death rate from diphtheria was already falling, immunization appears to have hastened the decline.

The department of health itself admitted the decline in the death rate of children from diphtheria couldn't be attributed solely to immunization. After all, this had fallen from 888 deaths for every million children in 1901 to 301 deaths per million in 1938 (a 66% reduction), and all this happened before the introduction of widespread immunization. But there was little doubt that immunization helped, and it was estimated that the death rate in 1946 was one-fifth of what could have been expected had the death rate continued to have fallen at the pre-immunization rate." (Martin WJ, "The recent trend of diphtheria in England and Wales," Monthly Bulletin of the Ministry of Health and PHLS," 1948: 232-236.

The issue of pet vaccines is also very interesting. You should read the chapter in Don Hamilton's book on Homeopathic Care for Dogs and Cats. He's against vaccination for pets and has seen a lot of vaccine damage in them. Then there's Marty Goldstein who wrote an excellent book with a chapter on vaccines. And Dr. Pitcairn's book, the first. Then there's Dr. Jean Dodds on the Internet who has a minimal vaccine program which is very popular and which I followed. Many authors recommend that if you have a puppy or kitten, the vaccines won't work until the maternal antibodies fade (same as for measles vaccine), but that time varies. So they say a vaccine for canine distemper or the feline distemper-calicivirus-rhinotracheitis vaccine at nine weeks old, then the second dose at sixteen weeks old. Parvovirus at twelve weeks and nineteen weeks old. Then rabies for both at six months old, with a booster one year later. And that's all. I got an e-book on Amazon called How to Immunize Your Dog without Vaccines by a Serbian homeopath, Aleks Mikic, and I talked with her on Skype and bought nodoses for our new puppy. But I was frightened enough of parvovirus that I got the minimal vaccine schedule as well. And no others.

It's really interesting, literally thousands of dogs and cats have reacted to vaccines with fatal sarcomas, and many with many other kinds of vaccine damage, including organ failure. But, as with humans, the main culprit seems to be over vaccination. Getting all the pet vaccines every year is absolute insanity which even the mainstream veterinary associations have recognized. But not my neighbor, who gets her two cats ALL the feline vaccines recommended by her vet EVERY year. The cats are thirteen years old now and she's ninety, so it would be good if the cats met a natural demise before she does. She has no one who would take them when she dies.

Greg,

I don't think that that is exactly my position. I would love to get no vaccines and recommend no vaccines: I know that all of them are on a continuum from causing imperceptible damage never associated with the vaccine in many people all the way to autism, severe autoimmune disease, organ failure, and/or death.

I cautiously recommend consideration of a few of them because it would be so dangerous for large numbers of people, or even small numbers of people, if they didn't vax, or if large numbers didn't vax and the diseases came back. I'm not giving vaccines the benefit of the doubt, but more saying that if your choice is between a chance (highly variable) of a severe or fatal case of Hib, polio, diphtheria, or tetanus, then in many cases I'd take or recommend the vaccines for them, even in the state the vaccines are in now. At this time in the US, there is close to no chance at all of getting polio or diphtheria, so I have no problem with people skipping those at this time. Tetanus has always been rare, but the spores are all around us all the time, carried by many mammals and in their poop and in the soil after the poop decays. I read that 30% of dogs carry it, also most guinea pigs. Yikes. I've had two dogs here and have dumped tons of used rabbit and guinea pig litter with their poop into the back yard or garden, and walked barefoot in the yard. People just have to realize that it's a possibility, that it's a horrifying disease, and even now it's often fatal. Yes, good wound care is essential and prevents most cases, but half of all cases of tetanus are from unapparent wounds or splinters. How many people are going to gouge open the site of a splinter with a knife to flush out the entire area? (And I'm certainly not recommending that they do. But the splinter is now in an anaerobic site where the tetanus spores can flourish if they were present. ) I would LOVE to see a large-scale study done on outcomes of even 5,000 children who get the DT series after the age of two, and none others. I would never put my hand in the fire and say that the vaccine will be safe for the vaccinee. But it IS almost 100% effective in preventing tetanus for, in most cases, over forty years. And almost 100% of the people you see around you every day got numerous tetanus shots and boosters (usually, unfortunately, as the DPT or DTaP). And everyone must judge for himself if he thinks the outcome for all those people was satisfactory enough for him to take the chance of the tetanus vaccine. I can say that it's satisfactory enough for me. It's not that I'm giving it a free pass, which seems to be the implication of "giving it the benefit of the doubt." One of my books says that no one who had ever seen a case of tetanus would fail to give the vaccine to his child. I think that's a big part of what's missing here. Very few or none of those here have ever seen severe or fatal cases of these diseases, largely because, for better or worse, nearly everyone we see every day has gotten the vaccines to prevent them. And that's crucial. It would be one thing if I said, Oh, I think we should believe the doctors who say that vaccines are nearly always harmless and absolutely don't cause autism. I've heard friends say they have had severe reactions etc., but I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and get or recommend them anyway. That is not the case. But in the case of these four diseases (two if you just count those conceivable here and now, only tetanus for those who breastfeed and keep their babies at home to prevent Hib disease), I think the vaccine outcome in the case of everyone I know is good enough for me to say that the diseases are MORE dangerous. I know that some people have had severe reactions to just the tetanus vaccine, but most don't.

Jeannette Bishop,

Thanks so much for JB Handley's article and the additional references contained therein:

https://jbhandleyblog.com/home/2018/5/14/savehumanity

Here on AoA Comments there has been an amazing array of technical knowledge from all sides; however JB ties it all together, and essentially sifts through all competing vaccines' pro/cons.

I urge everybody to read and pass on JB's truly encompassing knowledge, and I would guess his wife also shares the credit. Thank you Mr. and Mrs. Handley!

CIA Parker; I have been through all of that too. I think my son's psych evaluation was given on the second appeal. She was private, but the federal government sent their cases to her that was in her area. She said she had seen a lot of cases like ours and that is why she was selective in the vaccinations of her children, or did she say she did not vaccinate? I can't remember, and I am not sure if perhaps her profession has taught her how to get along and draw people out by giving the appearance of being very accepting of ideas? We lost that second appeal. The third appeal sent us to the big huge federal building in our state; to see a judge.

Yes, I went though a lawyer on the third appeal; she (the lawyer) filled out all that exact same stuff that I filled out two times before; myself. I even had a big binder of ever piece of paper from doctors, psychs evaluations, and education papers from right on back to his birth. It was all in order, and I even had written a short guide to it all in the front with a way to quickly reference it the papers that I had in the giant big binder.

.

The federal building had a security guard that took his job really seriously. He wanted to make sure that the metal on my back (my bra hooks) was exactly that.

We got no compensation (the way I looked at it). Maybe my son is not so disabled after all? That might be the case as I look at my sister-in-laws twins that are really disabled. They do not have epilepsy, but they have I Qs of 69 and 70. They did not even capable of getting a high school diploma, just a certificate that they did attend the whole four years. However; I think it makes a difference in what state you live in.

A back lash of the public, if diphtheria comes back might be the least of our problems

From The Guardian UK (although this story has been taken up in several UK mainstream press outlets)
EXTRACT:-
"Weedkiller found in wide range of breakfast foods aimed at children
Cancer-linked herbicide, sold as Roundup by Monsanto, present in 45 products including granola, snack bars and Cheerios"
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/aug/16/weedkiller-cereal-monsanto-roundup-childrens-food
"Monsanto, which said it will appeal against the verdict, has said glyphosate has been used safely for decades. In 2015, the EPA said that glyphosate has a low toxicity for people but could cause problems for some pets if they consume the chemical.
However, the World Health Organization has called glyphosate a “probable carcinogen” and authorities in California list it as a chemical “known to the state to cause cancer”.
In April, internal emails obtained from the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) showed that scientists have found glyphosate on a wide range of commonly consumed food, to the point that they were finding it difficult to identify a food without the chemical on it. The FDA has yet to release any official results from this process.
There was no indication that the claims related to products sold outside the US.
US farmers spray about 200m pounds of Roundup each year on their crops, including corn, soybeans, wheat and oats. It can also be used on produce such as spinach and almonds."

Monsanto, of course is screaming these levels are safe, safe safe, but let's not forget Roundup was designed as a selective weedkiller to be sprayed on cereal crops modified to resist the chemical. In view of the fact that cereal crops are a basic foodstuff for humans and animals, we can safely assume this stuff is now present in our own bodies and those of our children, as it will also be in animal meat and milk . Vaccines, grown in chicken's eggs or pig derived agar medium will have picked up the contamination.

I am disgusted by all the attempts to claim this chemical, admitted by the WHO to be a 'probable carcinogen' is safe for human consumption.

End of discussion I would suggest (End_decker): Nope, not over until the fat lady sings Sophie, and she’s ain’t even on stage yet…
1 These results allegedly finding glyphosate in vaccines were never published in a journal & subject to a proper peer review

2 This Moms Across America report is here https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/yesmaam/pages/1707/attachments/original/1473130173/FullGlyphosateinVaccinesReport_(6).pdf?1473130173 To detect Glyphosate, an enzyme linked immuno-sorbent assay (ELISA) was used at Microbe Inotech Laboratories Inc.

3 This Elisa test used is a screening test to test for the presence of glyphosate in WATER samples, it has never been validated to test in vaccines
“ELISA testing methods for pesticides can produce false positive and false negative results and thus cannot be used by regulators. ELISA methods can give inaccurate results. These methods are usu-ally used as a screening tool and any positive results have to be confirmed by a chromatographic method to be usable in risk assessment.” Quote from The Detox Project: “The Detox Project has created a unique one-stop resource based on independent peer-reviewed science to help you under-stand more about the probable harm being caused by glyphosate-based herbicides worldwide.”

4 The Moms Across America report refers to the need to do further non-Elisa testing, but makes no mention of any results obtained, instead it relies on the Elisa results which are only reliable to screen out negatives, not to quantify positives, and certainly not without further non-Elisa testing.

5 Of course we’ve been here before, in 2014, when Mums across America published another report claiming to have found glyphosphate in mother’s milk, again not peer reviewed in a journal, using the same Elisa test by the same analytical laboratory, without further analysis to confirm positive re-sults https://www.momsacrossamerica.com/glyphosate_testing_results This led to extensive testing using verified methods https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/07/150723133120.htm in independent laboratories without any evidence of glyphosate in the breast milk, even when there were traces in the urine samples.

So Sophie Moms Across America used the same screening technique twice, not validated for screening milk or vaccines and certainly not capable of producing reliable positive results without appropriate secondary testing, or as the lead researcher in this investigation said "The Moms Across America study flat out got it wrong," said McGuire, who is an executive committee member for the Interna-tional Society for Research in Human Milk and Lactation and a national spokesperson for the American Society for Nutrition. "Our study provides strong evidence that glyphosate is not in human milk. The MAA findings are unverified, not consistent with published safety data and are based off an assay de-signed to test for glyphosate in water, not breast milk." https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/07/150723133120.htm

So there is zero reliable verified evidence to support the claim of glyphosate in vaccines, it’s a rehash of a previously debunked scare story from the same sponsor using the same methods: end of discus-sion Sophie ?

David Weiner, What you said!

I see a lot of debate here between 2 positions on vaccination:

1) Vaccines are awful and should never be used.

2) Most of the current vaccines are awful, but there may be certain situations where a small number of vaccines might do more good than harm.

I don't want to weigh in on this issue, other than to say that I see no reason that vaccine activists have to achieve unanimity on position 1). We can and should agree to disagree here.

I think we all agree that the government vaccine program is a disaster and it has been a disaster for a very long time, if not always. This is where we ought to focus our attention.

We didn't get into this mess because individuals like Cia Parker did a lot of research and decided to utilize vaccines in a very limited manner. We got into this mess because most people did not do any research and instead blindly relied on what their doctor, their school, and their government officials told them about vaccines and the threat of infectious disease. And such people were also told that their kids needed to get their shots in order for them to be able to attend school.

If we want this nightmare to attend, we need to concentrate on ending the indoctrination and coercion surrounding vaccines, in other words the government vaccine program.

Another great post by JB Handley:

https://jbhandleyblog.com/home/2018/5/14/savehumanity

I've just finished reading the paper by McKinlay and Mckinlay he references, and I would strongly recommend the paper or JB's post to anyone who can't get past the description "deadly diseases" now often assigned to vaccine targeted infections (that sometimes result in disease) to begin considering the disease causing effects of vaccination.

Hans,

The crucial question is how common these conditions were before the Vaccine Epidemic began in 1990.

This is an article by Barbara Loe Fisher, using CDC statistics. It was written in 2004, so current prevalence is much higher now, but the basic point is that in the days when few vaccines were routinely given, these conditions were very uncommon.

https://www.nvic.org/vaccination-decisions/wakeofvaccines.aspx

Again, I don't think you have to choose all or nothing either way. It's always going to be a gamble either way you go, but it's not the case that contagious disease (or tetanus) would not be a problem in a completely unvaccinated population.

Eindeker,
Thank you for your explanation as to why the toxigenic diphtheria pathogens may have been reduced in prevalence. I didn't know about the parasitization.

Pfarmster,
I saw this in the Plotkin and Mortimer book, p. 53. "Of obvious concern is that this apparently high proportion of susceptible adults may offer the potential for recrudescence of outbreaks of diphtheria in adults. In this regard an important question is whether the proportion of susceptible individuals has increased in recent years, perhaps because the widespread immunization of children has resulted in a diminished circulation of toxicogenic C. diphtheria in the population and a consequent decrease in reinforcement of immunity by casual exposure to the organism. Curiously, however, a comparison of the results of current serological surveys of diphtheria antitoxin levels with those of 25 to 40 years ago provides no evidence of an increase in the proportion of nonimmune adults (granting that strict comparability among these various studies does not exist).

Nonetheless, it can be hypothesized that the reason that these low levels of immunity in adults have been associated only with small focal outbreaks of diphtheria in recent years is a form of herd immunity due to high levels of immunity in children. It has been generally accepted that 70% or more of a childhood population must be immune to diphtheria to prevent major community outbreaks, but this is an oversimplification of a more complex issue. Whether an epidemic occurs is influenced by a number of factors other than the proportion of immune and susceptible persons in the population, including the age distribution of immune and susceptible persons, the extent of mixing of individuals and subgroups in the community, and the infectivity and routes of transmission of the organism. In countries with high rates of childhood immunization against diphtheria, it may well be that epidemics do not occur among adults, up to half of whom may be susceptible, because the reservoir of disease in the childhood population has been eliminated and because the strains of C. diphtheriae circulating in the community are less apt to be toxigenic. Nonetheless, although there is disagreement, the proportions of susceptible adults is of sufficient concern that most authorities recommend maintenance of diphtheria immunity by periodic reinforcement using Td."

A lot of answers to the discussion here.From a lecture in Sweden autumn 2014 Dr Humphries

Dr. Suzanne Humphries speaks on tetanus, about the disease, how to treat the disease and how to protect from tetanus.
She goes through cases of vaccinated groups, that still developed tetanus, which shows that tetanus vaccine is not a guarantee to protect from the disease.

She also goes through the term herd immunity and how epigenetics function and could be affected by vaccination.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIgomZ06FFQ&feature=youtu.be

Pharma For Prisson

MMR RIP

Eindeker,

I think rtp is referring to an idea I read in several books, that removing the Hib microbe from circulation opened up an ecological niche for other meningitis germs, namely pneumococcal and meningococcal to move into. I researched it a couple of years ago and found that this phenomenon, if it occurred at all, was negligible. Pneumococcal infections have always been common, and, like the haemophilus germs, are carried by a large percentage of the population much of the time, without their causing disease. Most people develop permanent immunity through subclinical infection to all the meningitis germs by the age of five. Deaths and disability caused by pneumo infections have never been that many. Meningo infections are extremely serious, often deadly or requiring amputation of a limb, but have fortunately never been common, while the vaccine is very dangerous.

I don't care what parents choose. In my opinion, Hib disease was both common enough and dangerous enough that I could see a parent of a child in daycare choosing it. Again in my opinion, I think the dangers of Prevnar are common enough, the death and disability uncommon enough, that I wouldn't get it or recommend the vaccine.

And whimsical is not the term I would choose either.

Laura,

What is your advice for parents if and when the most dangerous contagious or infectious (tetanus and pneumonia are infectious without being contagious) diseases return in the absence of vaccination? Just good nutrition?

CIA Parker.
I would never down play any of these diseases seriousness.

Diphtheria was first described by Hippocrates in the fifth century BC; I am sure you are right. Civilization, dirt, filth, poverty and all that was around back then too; just like perhaps ex- satellite states of the failing, Russian, socialist system were back in the 90s.

You are for the DT because you saw no immediate reaction to it as you did with the P part of the DPT. I know you think that cause I have been there as well. Mine never reacted to the MMR vaccine either at least I did not think so.

We really don't know though and that whooping cough disease is capable of some pretty scary stuff too.

And yes CIA Parker; I know I am talking to you as part of the choir, and no; I don't think you should be against all vaccines; I just think you need to rethink that there is a danger and they are not even telling us, and we are not noticing the very, very slow reactions that eventually lead to other auto immune diseases like thyroid, or diabetes.

In the Untied States today we are not facing a Diphtheria problem, but we did lose 63,000 people this year to drug overdoses. This year is not even over with either. My conclusion is that Inflammation is painful after all. My daughter works with drug addicts and they all are telling her that they hurt, and that is why they took pain medicine that they became addicted to in the first place. All the drug addicts tell the other drug addicts to just suck it up and hurt. It is better to hurt than being a drug addict.

cia and anyone who is interested.

I looked into this further and found this:

https://www.clinicalmicrobiologyandinfection.com/article/S1198-743X(14)64654-1/fulltext

they blamed diphtheria outbreaks in Russia on poor vaccine coverage but in 1996 even in Europe there was poor vaccine coverage due to many older adults never having been vaccinated as a child.

"So, while most children were fully protected, provided that the majority of them were properly vaccinated, about 50% of the European adult population was not, and is presently partially or totally susceptible to diphtheria."

So it is an illusion that the european population had immunity to diphtheria but the russian outbreaks were caused by poor vaccine coverage.

Thinking about this further.. look at this chart.

http://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/sites/default/files/u77/Diphtheria_1914-2013.png

Diphtheria cases dropped dramatically within 10 years of starting the vaccine program. Cases nearly disappear. The vaccination program did however only cover children to my best knowledge. Of course a large part of the deaths and cases must have been in children but can this explain how the disease virtually disappeared when adults were never vaccinated? Were children the only reservoir for the disease?

https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/esm.02.08.00127-en

I don't know about the vaccine coverage in India and Indonesia but I see 70-80% I don't know if that is children or total population?

Perhaps I am misinterpreting something but I find it hard to believe that vaccination would be the only factor here.

End of discussion I would suggest (End_decker):

Posted by: Eindecker | August 17, 2018 at 07:21 AM

· MMR II (Merk) vaccine had 2.671 parts per billion (ppb) of glyphosate

· DTap Adacel (Sanofi Pasteur) vaccine had 0.123 ppb of glyphosate

· Influenza Fluvirin (Novaris) 0.331 ppb of glyphosate

· HepB Energix-B (Glaxo Smith Kline) 0.325 ppb of glyphosate

· Pneumonoccal Vax Polyvalent Pneumovax 23 (Merk) had 0.107 ppb of glyphosate

Thank you John, although I would have used a slightly different term than "whimsical", but Mr or Ms RTP two final comments

1 No "doctors" didn't stopped blaming Hib and instead blamed meningococcal and pneumococcal.: the identification of the organism is a laboratory based procedure based of what is cultured (grown) from the blood or CSF of the patient, so it's a lab tech who will enter the organism into the data base, they will have no idea of the vaccine status of the patient, the sample will arrive at the lab requesting "culture & (antibiotic) sensitivity"
&
2 Why do patients infected with antibiotic resistant organisms have so much worse clinical outcomes when the “best guess” antibiotic is administered before the antibiotic sensitivity test results are available?
RTP you really do need to wake up & smell the coffee, as they say in America
Pharmster & Cia the diphtheria toxoid vaccine provides protection against the very potent diphtheria exotoxin, enabling antibiotic treatment for the skin or respiratory mucosa infections. As to why the toxigenic strains have apparently reduced in prevalence where there is good vaccine coverage it may be that these strains are at a growth disadvantage compared to the non-toxigenic strains, (they are parasitized by a virus which codes for the toxin) a similar situation occurs with antibiotic resistant bacteria where these resistant strains tend to revert to the antibiotic sensitive “wild type” form if the selective pressure of antibiotics is with removed, but that’s just my guess as a microbiologist. 80% of the “classic” diphtheria cases occur in India and Indonesia, circulating toxigenic strains occur in countries with low vaccine coverage.

In a sense you're correct Cia it isn't vaccines per se that you are entranced by.

It's contagious disease.

Civilizations have been petrified of it - even before germ theory.

Jesus had no interest in it but the Jewish scriptures were obsessed by it.

The Black Death and Spanish Flu were both caused *entirely* by the fear of contagious disease.

The moment you are persuaded that disease can be spread you instantly lose all reason and morality. Today it's a needle full of poison but tomorrow people could be persuaded to put their hand in a blender to prevent the spread of disease.

Posted by: cia parker | August 16, 2018 at 05:32 PM

I am also grateful to Stanley Plotkin.
He explained to me that the CDC-EIS was & perhaps still is actually part of the US Navy.

So vaccination is very much a part of the US military .
Vaccination has absolutely nothing to do with the promotion of anyone persons health.

Vaccination has everything to do with the decline of a persons health.
& its deliberate (& you are an apologist for these genocidal policies).

I think it's good to read books from both sides of the issue. I bought Vaccines by Plotkin and Mortimer several years ago, and I respect them. Their tome is massive and scholarly, packed with solid information, my edition published in 1994 before the autism epidemic began to make itself felt. I am certain that they believed that vaccines helped children avoid untimely disease, disability, and death, and that they are sincere in what they write.
P. 51: "No controlled clinical trial, acceptable by today's scientific standards, has ever been conducted for three reasons. First, given the serious nature of the disease and the clear perception of benefit first from the toxin-antitoxin combination and subsequently from the toxoid (the vaccine), its value seemed obvious to early investigators. Second, the development of surrogate approaches to assessing immunity (the Schick test and serological methods) made such trials unnecessary. Third, the early appearance of strong presumptive evidence that the toxin-antitoxin preparation and the toxoid were effective made such trials unethical.

In spite of the lack of a controlled clinical trial, ample evidence exists that diphtheria toxoid prevents clinical disease in the vast majority of recipients and controls the disease from a public health standpoint. First is the nearly complete disappearance of the disease in countries in which immunization has been widely employed. Second is the fact that during outbreaks of diphtheria rates of disease are negligible among immunized persons. Third, when partially, or, rarely, fully-immunized individuals acquire diphtheria , the disease is milder and complications are fewer. Fourth, a good correlation has been established between clinical protection and the presence of serum antibody in the toxin, whether resulting from disease or immunization.

There is solid circumstantial evidence, too vast to review here (although they cite many studies in footnotes), that the introduction and widespread use of diphtheria toxoid immunization in populations are associated with a remarkable decline in morbidity and mortality from the disease (more studies footnoted). These temporal trends and the near disappearance of diphtheria in developed countries are far too striking to be attributed to secular fluctuations in the disease or to better therapy."

I think that developed countries no longer have diphtheria because almost everyone has received many vaccines against it. I believe that if some unknown percentage of people stop getting it for their children, that it will come back. I am against mandates, but I think everyone should think about what they would do if they had young, unvaxxed children and they read about a diphtheria outbreak in their city that was killing unvaxxed children. Would you seek out the nosode and hope it was effective? Would you get the DT or dT shot for your children and perhaps yourselves, even though you are anti-vax? Would you hope that you could get antibiotic and vitamin C treatment for your children quickly enough to often save their lives if you decide to just take your chances, remembering that diphtheria fatalities are at least 10% even with rapid hospital treatment? Do none of these and hope for the best? Any of these options is the right of every parent, but I'm sure everyone realizes that most parents would get the vaccine for themselves and their children if diphtheria made a reappearance in developed countries.

Pharmster,
I looked it up last night in Plotkin and Mortimer's Vaccines, second edition. P. 50. "Specifically, a strain of C. Diphtheriae that is known to produce large amounts of toxin is grown in a liquid medium conducive to toxin production." Anything injected will produce antibodies: it sounds as though the vaccine would produce antibodies to that strain of diphtheria AND to the toxins it produces. There is a lot of other information in that chapter as to why they believe that it has been shown to be very effective in preventing serious cases of diphtheria, but I've got to get ready for an SSI doctor's appointment to determine if my daughter will get SSI. I know that vaccines cause autism. I wish to God she had never gotten the hep-B vaccine at birth which I had said I didn't want her to get as I had read it often caused autism. And they did it anyway and she reacted with encephalitis and autism. The DTaP at 18 months old erased her only words, encephalitis again. I believe that if she had only gotten the DT after two years old and no others, that she would be normal and healthy today and preparing to go to college next year. I am not pro-vax. But it is also true that I don't want my daughter to be disabled or killed by a contagious or infectious disease. I think you have to research it and try to find a path which you have reason to believe will very likely protect against both eventualities.

Fahrenheit 451 (Infowars)
2018 ‧ Drama/Science fiction film ‧ 1h 41m

In a future society where books are banned and burned, a fireman begins to read in secret and discovers an underground rebellion committed to protecting literature.
Initial release: 19 May 2018 (USA)

cia,

"don't agree with your premises. The vaccine used prevents the toxin-producing strain of diphtheria."

Does it protect you from the toxin or does it prevent the toxin-producing strain?
There is a difference between these two.

Pharmster,

don't agree with your premises. The vaccine used prevents the toxin-producing strain of diphtheria. No case of diphtheria has been reported in the US for many years because nearly everyone has received many doses of the vaccine, and it has been enough to keep the disease from reappearing. There is disagreement about whether the epidemic in Russia was caused by the vaccine which everyone had gotten wearing off or not. Clearly the hunger, cold, and social breakdown were contributing factors. But a massive vaccination campaign stopped the occurrence of diphtheria there.

Wendy Lydall's charts on disease incidence from the UK government tables show that in 1900 there were 9,000 deaths from diphtheria in the UK. 1870 was the peak for pertussis, 18,000 deaths from it in the UK that year. The peak for scarlet fever deaths was also in 1870, 32,000 deaths. She doesn't have a chart for measles. It was Jamie Murphy in What Every Parent Should Know About Childhood Vaccines who said that diphtheria, pertussis, scarlet fever, and measles were the leading contagious diseases which killed children. I'll find the quotation later. But looking at figures like 32,000 deaths a year, 18,000 deaths a year, you can see why parents welcomed vaccines when they were introduced. (They tried a scarlet fever vaccine, several I think, but they were very dangerous and never routinely given.)

I am less familiar with the situation for pet vaccines. I know that they are being harmed from vaccines, but perhaps there is justification for, say, infrequent rabies vaccination. I can't say for sure. But here too, there should be openness to other ways to protect pets. We need to make a habit of thinking outside the vaccine box, because that is the prison that we are stuck in.