Your right Linda we have to watch the slippery slope and to that extent I dont agree with cake seller.If that was my cake shop whoever refused them would be out,gone, if they hung around long enough for the bollocking bigger fool them.

Pharma For Prison

MMR RIP

John Stone: Right on the money. Distract them. Bread and circuses.

Of all the things within my spectrum of concern, some baker refusing to bake a cake for ANY customer, is not even on the radar.

What I'm most concerned about, is the right to REFUSE the services of anyone who believes they have the right to jam them down my throat.

The last thing any pediatrician needs to worry about, is the right to refuse their services from my family. Because I fired my son's pediatrician, long before she had the chance to fire me.

David: Thank you. Very similar to my thinking on such matters. It does seem foolish for a business to refuse service to someone who behaves well and dresses appropriately simply because they think their lifestyle is morally wrong. I would decline to patronize such a business because I feel everybody deserves to be treated with basic dignity, and the non-acceptance of gays is based upon nothing more than ancient prejudice. Forced vaccination is the worst sort of state-sanctioned discrimination. We long ago ceased to be a representative democracy. We've become much too big, that is, the federal government has, and corporate interests direct nearly all of what Congress does. One of the great tragedies of our system is that members of Congress spend half their time on the phone rounding up campaign cash, yet it is clear that all that political advertising makes little difference in election outcomes.

Linda,

You stated: "Just one example, before our anti-discrimination laws, black members of touring musical bands would not be able to eat at the same restaurant or sleep at the same hotel as their white band mates."

I think we need to be very careful when discussing these matters, because many people conflate 2 different situations:

1) Jim Crow laws, i.e. state-mandated discrimination, which were prevalent in the South until the 1960's, where businesses are compelled to discriminate against certain groups of people. This type of law should never be tolerated in a free society.

2) Discrimination on the part of owners of private property, such as the bakers who refused to make a cake for a gay wedding. This type of discrimination should be legally tolerated, though people who object to it are free to speak out against such actions and organize boycotts, if they think that they are warranted.

This raises the question: which category would pediatricians refusing to serve non-vaccinating or semi-vaccinating patients fall into.

At first glance, it would appear to be type 2), since the pediatric practices are ostensibly private businesses . But when you look at the matter more closely, I think that the right answer is that this type of discrimination is really more akin to a Jim Crow law, even though their actions are not specifically compelled by law.

Basically, we have governments which, via its licensing laws, mandate that pediatricians attend a medical school that provides a curriculum which is heavily biased in favor of vaccination. Then, these same pediatricians are subject to sanction by medical boards established by government which are also strongly in favor of vaccination. So, in effect, you have a situation where the government has created a monopoly, or a cartel to be more precise, of pediatricians who are strongly biased in favor of vaccination (we'll set aside here the few pediatricians who have transcended these circumstances and managed to maintain their medical license).

So, indirectly, through its licensing laws, government has created circumstances which are tantamount to a Jim Crow law discriminating against those who do not want to abide by the CDC schedule. So this is why I, a consistent libertarian, do not think that it is appropriate to defend pediatricians right to discriminate in this situation.

Of course, the situation here in the UK is quite different. Someone has already commented that the courts here have forced bakers to make gay wedding cakes (whatever they are). On medical and dental matters, we can, in my experience be refused treatment, and/or a diagnosis, by the NHS, and there is NO ALTERNATIVE available either within the NHS or privately. This is why you have cases of people traveling to the USA, or other European countries - probably countries we used to describe as impoverished - for essential and sometimes life-saving treatment. Or they might even be kidnapped and incarcerated and left to die, as in the case of Alfie Evans.

The gay bakery situation is not related to doctors denying services to a parent that disagrees with the vaccine schedule so why talk about it anyway AofA. The medical marijuana case is related enough to be here and parents should sue the state for its hypocrisy and interference in private family matters like how the chose to medicate their child.

I tried to post this on youtube and was ghost banned. The post only shows when I am logged in.

Anyway, this link to an important series of graphs. In some cases, as with the small pox vaccine, death rates went UP, drastically, after the introduction of mandatory vaccination.

http://whale.to/vaccines/decline1.html

I have not seen a single Pediatrician cure anything, nor have I met one who diagnosed most things correctly. Once your child is vaccine injured, they deny it. They seem to have no clue as to the health of children poisoned with Aluminum, Mercury/thimerosal, cancer-promoting Formaldehyde, animal cells, retroviruses, peanut oils leading to anaphylaxis, and other toxins that they shoot into your innocent healthy babies. Even if or when they refer you to a neurologist, tests are run but at best only psychiatric medicines are prescribed which makes Customers for life. They have No Idea how the boys brains react to so many chemicals that often the area of the brain that develops empathy is forever intoxicated, so to speak. Look at how there are large Groups of pediatric doctors? You barely see the same one twice, guarenteeing that a relationship with them barely develops. That was instituted by the Insurance companies. They sever the concept of relationships. So now 1 in 34 kids in NJ are Autistic with 1 in every 22 boys, not better diagnosis. It is the only state required to report it and so as a result-it is a Truer, more accurate number. That does not include toddlers who fare far worse. I never heard of childhood cancer until after 1986. They are shooting children against "Diseases" that are NOT Diseases, merely 1 to 2 week Temporary illnesses that cause immunity for the rest of their lives! Look mom, No Boosters needed!

Anonymous,
It's really about anti-discrimination to prevent persecution and the resulting denial of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" in a civilized society. It's about us all agreeing that we should not allow people to be shunned, marginalized or denied their rightful place in society because of some characteristic difference that is not illegal.

Forced medical treatment is evil and wrong. Laws that prevent us from making other people miserable, are good.

Kim, Great post and I entirely agree with you that 'a doctor should embrace a patient with autism even more firmly than a typical patient.'

Pat, I felt you comments were a little harsh, but perhaps I misunderstood them.

The tactic of refusing pediatric services to vaccine choice advocates further serves to marginalize the community. In a piece she wrote for the daily beast Ana Marie Cox lays it out:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ignore-the-vaccination-debate

You see, there's nothing to see here. Vaccine-induced autism and vaccine injury in general isn't real. If we ignore it, it will all just go away.

If the government can force a Christian baker to bake a cake for a gay wedding because the government thinks that’s for the good of society, what will stop them from forcing you and your family to get vaccinated because they think that’s for the good of society?

Hi Bill. Yes the decision was very narrow and about his treatment in lower court. I think the parallel holds - why don’t we deride peds who kick out patients.

Thanks. Kim

I think educated parents are already coming to realize that seeking out a pediatrician (vs. a family practice or holistic physician) is synonymous with making an uneducated health choice. I mean, what else do pediatricians do besides vaccinate? They rarely pick up on problems kids are having (witness the raging autism epidemic of the past 20+ years), and if they do happen to notice any significant problem, they refer you to someone else anyway, so what is the point?

Look at all that has radically changed in children's health over the past 50 years: formula vs. breastfeeding, disposable vs. cloth diapers, traditional vs. organic food, natural vs. medicated childbirth, and now vaccines vs. true health. It's only logical that vaccinating pediatricians get kicked to the curb.
My guess is that the next shift in children's health will be away from cell phones/wireless devices.

Now, where all this leads to for lower-income families who cannot afford healthier alternatives will be the next great American tragedy.

"When a pediatric practice kicks out a patient because Mom or Dad choose to alter the vaccination schedule, maybe even forego vaccination for a period of time, or eschew it altogether, I see no difference."

Not seeing a difference doesn't mean there isn't one.

Business, as private entities, are allowed to "discriminate." And bear in mind that the word "discriminate" has not only broad implications but broad application, not just the "narrow" one you concede.

Medical doctors are part of a business, just like the baker. Either or both may choose to deny service to whomever. But your point, apparently, is that no business should ever be allowed to deny anyone whatever that business provides. I'm guessing you haven't really taken time to extrapolate that point, or, if you have, you've accepted the vileness that such entails (nice).

If my pediatrician decided s/he was not going to do business with me because my views on "care" differ from her/his, I should consider that a benefit. I mean, especially in this day and age, why would I, as a forward-thinking and inquisitve parent, want to enlist the "help" of a medical practitioner who apparently considers as appropriate ONLY whatever it was s/he was taught in medical school? And since doctors are inclined (required by law?) to report "bad parents," who is to say s/he wouldn't, if only because I don't want to vaccinate or whatever?

Further, if Baker #1 doesn't want to bake my cake, I'll make do. Certainly not worth getting all worked up about. Sheesh.

So there you go, John Stone: "The last thing we want is psychotropic medicines for autism." or anything else apparently.

Oh and when they sent the big Dr. Psychiatrist to our home - three times ; she said that she was not doing this because she was getting paid by big pharma.

Sigh,

No, of course not. She is a good person except she has been trained unbeknownst to her by an education system that unbeknownst to them on knowledge derived by big pharma.

What better way to spend trillions, no longer billions of dollars to keep all that green rolling in.

Kim,
The baker and pediatricians' denials are the same because they are both based on religion.

I was recently curious to see how many pediatricians we have in this country and looking up job prospect info, I found that there is a shortage of pediatricians specializing in developmental and neurological disorders, attributed by this one source (of unknown reliability) to the cost of extended education and reluctance to spend the time. And I thought, to them it isn't about the NEED of the patient population, the undeclared epidemic of sick children doesn't seem to be a factor in their career aspirations. It's about THEIR making a good living and having a nice life. The children are a means to THEIR end, which is sickening.

Sharon,
AMEN.

Conventional medicine is to be avoided -- whether you are a pediatric or adult patient -- except for acute care. Functional or holistic or integrative medicine is the only kind of medicine that we should all seek to be a part of. It is a shame that we must avoid these conventional systems, but how can you be well if you are vaccinated (and die of SIDS or remain permanently injured) on schedule, if you say yes to conventional psychiatric medications that disable you and put you into SSDI-group homes when you were once enabled (Robert Whitaker's Anatomy of an Epidemic), if you say yes to conventional oncology and allow the cut/burn/poison cancer "treatments" to kill you? To say nothing of the less serious conventional "treatments" whose only goal seems to be making you the patient an annuity in a system of "how many Rx medications can we force you to take" rather than prescribing lifestyle and nutrition treatments.

We must all have the courage to say NO to these systems. To accept their fraudulent, corrupt, money-hungry nature has nothing to do with our well-being. The more of us who shun these systems, the speedier the collapse. There are very good alternatives now in the functional/holistic/integrative worlds. They do cost a lot of money b/c they are outside of the system. Hopefully, one day, the conventional systems will implode, allowing all of us access to the alternatives that put our wellbeing at the forefront of their practice and abide by the Hippocratic oath of "First Do No Harm".

Its a bit like the News being controlled Kim and an agenda being picked as a worthy news story which it is to some.The cake fits with the world wide narrative distracting from the millions of kids every day vaccinated harmed and killed- but thats not an issue.A cake is an issue which I think most folks would say you dont want to bake my cake your loss ,I`m off to your competitors.Would you feel like eating it if they did bake it, would you want to start your marriage with a unwilling cake.Surely we shoudnt be forced into vaccination I mean where is the customer satisfaction gone. Tripadviser lets start a Trip doc and rate them accordingly..

This one in Ireland 2016 with the opposite result nothing like divide and rule.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/may/01/gay-marriage-cake-ashers-bakery-northern-ireland-uk-supreme-court

PHARMA FOR PRISON

MMR RIP