ATSC

Happy new year.

From the UK perspective it is a certainty that any doctor who considered a vaccine damage hypothesis in almost any instance would be hauled before the General Medical Council and publicly abused. Last time someone was compensated (Robert Fletcher in 2010) the evidence was presented by a doctor in America over a TV connection.

While you are right about Kanner I seem to remember he had the grace in the end to defer to Bernie Rimland - the man who is being written out of history.

John

ATSC

Yes, one of the most basic things you might ever want to measure in all of this is the long-term health and developmental outcomes of those that had had bad reactions. Governments (or their minions) know perfectly well what they are not measuring (or monitoring). Peter Fletcher, who was a high ranking UK Department of Health official in the 1970 and 80s, told me that at one point when they were dealing with DPT problems he went on behalf of the DH to consult Richard Doll - himself a controversial figure but the leading epidemiologist of the day - who told him they had to monitor individual cases to find out what was going on. (Obviously, Fletcher became disaffected and was later frustrated about not being able to give evidence in the group action over MMR, and his disgust was also mirrored by another senior official of the time, Bill Inman, who wrote about the DPT scam in his book 'What doctors don't tell you'.) I think you could not stress this point too much in this appalling saga: the policy is hit and run, and against the most basic common sense.

http://www.ageofautism.com/2014/07/best-of-aofa-naked-cdc-truth-about-mmr.html

MERRY CHRISTMAS

PS Also, in the 1970s they were concerned (or not) about the fallout of a triple vaccine DPT. Now, in the UK a two month old gets DTaP, Polio, HiB, 13 strain pneumococal, Rotavirus and now Prof Pollard's Men B. So, if a child gets sick after that (with another lot 4 weeks and 8 weeks later) who can say which or what was to blame...

PPS We know that the DH went to great trouble to bury the bad effects of DPT and isolate opposition. Bill Inman was particularly appalled about their treatment of Prof Gordon Stewart and Inman himself was told he had lost his knighthood over it (which I expect he could take philosophically). We also know that they must have realised they were taking a bigger risk with our children when they introduced the accelerated DPT schedule in 1990 approx two years after MMR, forwarding the scheduled vaccinations from 3, 4 and 10 months. But of course retrospectively they were also putting the first stepping stones in place for the highway of the expanded infant schedule. In fact, recently they even tightened the screws by rounding down 2, 3 and 4 months to 8, 12 and 16 weeks.

As you play the tape back and forth you begin to notice things.

ATSC

Essentially we are dealing with a circumstance in which if it had occured naturally - a baby became that sick - the parents would be urged to rush them to hospital, but because the connection is made with them having been vaccinated they are told to make do and give the infant some Tylenol. And, of course, nothing will likely be written down in the notes - not a trace will be left. In certain circumstances, as in a 2003 survey in N. London by senior British health officials, the absence of record could be cited as absence of event.

Jesus Baby

So, if you hit someone in your car, you wouldn't stop, and you wouldn't go back to find out what had happened? You would rely on statistics which say that most of the time you don't hit anyone while out driving?

JBaby,

No. What we can say is that the conditions at the restaurant passed inspection but without scientific analysis of the remains of the piece of chicken my son ate, which could have been dropped on the kitchen floor or contaminated in some other way, we can't say for sure that it wasn't the chicken.

Your response, focusing on the chicken, was predictable. Seeing as you ignored my question, how about answering this:

After receiving six vaccines at once for a holiday overseas, you feel really sleepy, start projectile vomiting and your temperature soars. You take Tylenol as per the doctor's instructions and then feeling exceptionally tired go to bed. When you wake up, you still have a high fever and you're still vomiting, so you ring the Urgent Care Line which you'd expect to be manned at all times and leave a message but no one rings back so you take another dose of Tylenol and go back to sleep again.

Next morning, you're no better so you ring the Urgent Care Line again but as before you get no response and you leave another message. Your temperature remains high all day, despite the Tylenol, and when you're not vomiting, you're sleeping.

On the third day, a friend calls in and, worried about your health, your ongoing fever, excessive tiredness, and inability to keep any food down, he rings the Urgent Care Line. Because no one is there or rings back, he suggests a trip to the ER, but because the doctor told you that you might have a fever and be sick for a few days after your vaccines, you decide that going to the ER would be overreacting. After all, your doctor whom you trust told you that the six vaccines you had were all safe and what to expect.

On the morning of the fourth day, your friend stops by to check on you. The phone rings and he answers it. The doctor asks how you are, and your friend says, "JBaby's fever has gone now but s/he's still really tired", and the doctor says "Okay. JBaby will be fine, and sorry nobody called back".

The problem is that you, JBaby, are not fine. Next time your friend calls in, he finds you staring at the wall, and unresponsive. You show no interest in him or the colourfully-wrapped present he has brought you.

Now you are no longer able to communicate. A psychologist tells your family you have ASD, and a geneticist says you have certain genes associated with ASD.

And my question is: Would your family accept that a genetic disorder had deprived you of your ability to communicate or would they be pointing at the four days of acute illness with symptoms of an encephalitis and medical negligence?

https://www.ninds.nih.gov/Disorders/All-Disorders/Meningitis-and-Encephalitis-Information-Page

"Symptoms of meningitis, which may appear suddenly, often include high fever, severe and persistent headache, stiff neck, nausea, sensitivity to bright light, and vomiting. Changes in behavior such as confusion, sleepiness, and difficulty waking up may also occur. In infants, symptoms of meningitis or encephalitis may include fever, vomiting, lethargy, body stiffness, unexplained irritability, and a full or bulging fontanel. Anyone experiencing symptoms of meningitis or encephalitis should see a doctor immediately. "

We often hear "If symptoms persist, see your doctor". What if doctors can't be bothered to see you or you baby because they assume that the symptoms that you as a non-medical person are describing over the phone are perfectly normal after vaccination?

JBaby;
ATSC has a really good comment. Maybe you should read it and reply?
How do you feel about the fact that Lily was denied medical treatment, or even a doctors visit for her vaccine reaction?

J Baby,

The most important part of this story is that Lily's parents, anxious about their daughter's health after vaccination, rang the emergency doctor on the "urgent care line" three times over a four-day period and no one got back to them, and after this vaccine-induced illness they lost her.

"And that's when she just left. It's like she would just stare at the wall. She would just stare for hours. Like she wouldn't track objects at all. We would take toys and Christmas ornaments, things that light up and put it in front of her face and she was just vacant".

In Laura Hayes recent speech, she said:

"She told me that his reaction was perfectly normal, and not to worry. I called every business day for 10 consecutive days, and never got past the receptionist. On the 10th day, the receptionist literally yelled at me and said, “Mrs. Hayes, please stop calling this office. Anything that happens in the first 2 weeks after a vaccination is considered a normal vaccine reaction."

In light of this, why do you think the emergency on-call doctor ignored Lily's parents' cries for help for four days?

Many parents cry out for help when they see that their child is sick after vaccination but regardless of our description of our child's state of health, the only response we get is to give them a fever reducer.

A few years ago my son vomited violently for over an hour shortly after eating a piece of chicken that he'd bought from a local restaurant. I rang the doctor who told me to ring the hospital. Within half an hour of phoning the hospital, I had a call from the head of the public health department who, after first asking me how my son was, asked for the name of the restaurant. Within 24 hours this public health official rang me back to say that he's sent the food inspectors over to the restaurant and it had passed their inspection.

This is the level of attention that should be given to babies who are suffering ill-health after their vaccines, but it is not, and I think something should be done about it, don't you?

Hi Jbaby;
So we have a child with both a neurological disorder, and with at least one mutation linked to vaccine reactions. Her mother described her severe vaccine reaction, following a vaccine that is contraindicated for some neurological disorders.

( By the way, MTHFR mutations are linked to autism)
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10803-010-1120-x

Interesting isn't that so many parents describe their children having vaccine reactions, their children have a gene that is linked to vaccine reactions, and you are apparently still really certain that the reaction did not happen....

She had a vaccine reaction

JBaby
Suggesting that more studies should be done in a very common academic convention. it seems surprising that you feel that this sentence somehow invalidates the study.

Another paper.

Adversomics: The Emerging Field of Vaccine Adverse Event Immunogenetics

This study showed that fever following smallpox vaccination was associated with specific haplotypes on the IL1 gene complex, and in the IL18 and IL4 genes. Importantly, these findings raise the possibility that the same genetic polymorphisms linked to fever after smallpox vaccine may also influence fever risk after other live virus vaccines, including MMR.9,10 For example, a small percentage of children who get vaccine-induced fever after MMR will develop febrile seizures. Knowledge of a genetic association could allow the development of predictive tests or preventive therapies that could be administered with vaccine to prevent such AEs.

So it appears that smallpox reactions may be suggested as a useful guide to other live vaccine reactions.

Of course the four month vaccines that Lily reacted so badly to would have included the DtaP.
From the CDC, contraindications to DTaP
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/admin/contraindications-vacc.html

For pertussis-containing vaccines: progressive or unstable neurologic disorder (including infantile spasms for DTaP), uncontrolled seizures, or progressive encephalopathy until a treatment regimen has been established and the condition has stabilized

So neurologic disorders are a risk factor for an adverse reaction.

http://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/moebius-syndrome

From the article

here are four recognized categories of Moebius syndrome:

Group I, characterized by small or absent brain stem nuclei that control the cranial nerves;
Group II, characterized by loss and degeneration of neurons in the facial peripheral nerve;
Group III, characterized by loss and degeneration of neurons and other brain cells, microscopic areas of damage, and hardened tissue in the brainstem nuclei, and,
Group IV, characterized by muscular symptoms in spite of a lack of lesions in the cranial nerve.

So again, one wonders what studies have been done to show whether or not DTaP vaccine ( and other vaccines ) are safe for kids with Moebius syndrome.I couldn't find any. Can you?

By the way, you seem to think doctors are keen to treat and help vaccine injured children, or even children with chronic lifelong conditions that they can't fix. We have a great doctor whom we appreciate. But not everyone is as lucky.

"Around 7 minutes the mom says, "So then we did genetic testing last year, and she has all the genetic mutations that autistic folks have." Then she says, "We know that it wasn't genetic. We know it's because she was poisoned."
How is that possible?"

Jesus Baby, it is not only possible, but likely, that both genes and poisoning are involved. Genetic mutations like MTHFR make it more difficult for the body to get rid of toxins. This was never a problem before the world became so polluted, and neurotoxic poisons like mercury and aluminum were deliberately injected into babies. There is a genetic susceptibility to being more sensitive to poisoning. Let's stop poisoning babies!

J Baby; you heard the whole thing and that is all you took away from it? Severe vaccine reaction, fever, and all you heard was that the little girl has an MTHFR mutation , so it must be "genetic". Couldn't be four days of fever after a vaccine that the mother said was when everything changed, right?

You do know what an MTHFR mutation is ?
People with this ( my whole family has it) have a messed up glutathione pathway that means they cannot process toxins as well as other people.
( by the way, tylenol depletes glutathione.) And in one of the very rare studies of vaccine side effects, researchers found that people with an MTHFR mutation are more prone to vaccine reactions.

See the following peer reviewed journal article.

Genetic basis for adverse events after smallpox vaccination.
"The presence of a nonsynonymous SNP in the methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase (MTHFR)gene was associated with the risk ofAEin both trials (odds ratio [OR], 2.3 [95% confidence interval {CI}, 1.1-5.2] [P = .04] and OR, 4.1 [95% CI, 1.4 -11.4] [P<.01])."
Found here.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18454680

On top of that, one must ask, have vaccines been tested for safety on children with Mobius?

God bless this little girl and her family.

Around 7 minutes the mom says, "So then we did genetic testing last year, and she has all the genetic mutations that autistic folks have." Then she says, "We know that it wasn't genetic. We know it's because she was poisoned."

How is that possible?