Hans,

Yes, the CDC has always greatly exaggerated the number of cases of disease - and deaths, especially before the launch of a new vaccine.

Take the US statistics for Chickenpox for 1995 and 1996, and the vaccine was licensed in March 1995.

https://web.archive.org/web/19991127195018/http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/chicken.htm">http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/chicken.htm">https://web.archive.org/web/19991127195018/http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/chicken.htm

"Number of Cases Annually: 120,624 (1995) " and yet the CDC claimed at the time that "approximately 4 million cases occur in the United States each year":

https://web.archive.org/web/20010802160428/http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/srp/varicella.htm#chickenpox">http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/srp/varicella.htm#chickenpox">https://web.archive.org/web/20010802160428/http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/srp/varicella.htm#chickenpox

Cia,

I don't think we have to reach as far back as 150 years ago. When you were searching through your family tree did you find any of your relatives born from 1900 onwards who died from diseases for which there are vaccines today? And how many of them managed to live well into their 70s, 80s and 90s without vaccines to protect them?

My understanding of the tetanus bacteria is that it is ubiquitous and anaerobic so if deep wounds are opened up and allowed to bleed the bacteria can't survive. Rose thorns and rusty nails have a reputation for being dangerous because they inject the bacteria deep into the skin. There might be some vaccine critics who say the tetanus vaccine works but I've never met any, and with a better understanding of tetanus over time and more attention to wound-care, how would we know?

Tetanus was indeed the last vaccine that Dr Mendelsohn abandoned, he said, "The tetanus vaccine over the decades has been progressively weakened in order to reduce the considerable reaction (fever and swelling) it used to cause. Accompanying this reduction in reactivity has been a concomitant reduction in antigenicity (the ability to confer protection). Therefore, there is a good chance that today’s tetanus vaccine is about as effective as tap water." (The People’s Doctor Newsletter 1976-1988) http://whale.to/v/mend.html

I have no doubt that diphtheria killed children, but what treatment was available back then? Dr Menelsohn says on p 244 of How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor (1984) "There is ample evidence that the incidence of diphtheria was already diminishing before a vaccine became available" and on p 245, " Today your child has about as much chance of contracting diphtheria as he does of being bitten by a cobra".

I'm sorry about your roommate's paralysis but unless laboratory testing to detect poliovirus was carried out at the time of her infection, how would anyone know if her paralysis was associated with/caused by one of the polioviruses?

"The question is whether the person will be disabled or killed by a vaccine-preventable disease."

I think there's enough to worry about in life without worrying about diseases that may never happen, and, unlike a vaccine-reaction that can leave a child disabled for life, when disease strikes medical professionals immediately recognise that the child is sick and something can usually be done.

I don't spend my life worrying about germs and disease, I do constantly worry about my vaccine-injured son's future - and every time he goes out unaccompanied. People are not generally kind to the disabled, and some take advantage of them.

"Nutritional status matters, but many well-nourished people have always died in outbreaks of contagious disease. "

How do we know this? Vitamin A was not routinely administered in developed countries to treat measles because doctors assumed that children in these countries wouldn't be deficient. Children might look healthy on the outside but they could be lacking in many nutrients, especially when fed a fast-food, sugar-laden, junk diet.

Cia : (Diphtheria and Tetanus DTaP Toxoids and Acellular Pertussis Vaccine Adsorbed Tripedia®)

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM101580.pdf

And on page 11 of this government document we find the following :

"Adverse events reported during post-approval use of Tripedia vaccine include idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, SIDS, anaphylactic reaction, cellulitis, autism, convulsion/grand mal convulsion, encephalopathy, hypotonia, neuropathy, somnolence and apnea."

Hi Cia,
Sorry I did not get back to you before now. I did check with someone else who was also a nurse in hospitals in the 80's ( my mom) and she did not remember HiB infections as being a huge issue either, though she wasn't working paediatrics . Nurses at that time ( probably still today) definitely would tell each other about sad or worrying cases, or deaths.

Interesting: her memories of serious illnesses that stood out in the 80's focused mainly on caring for multiple cases of paralysis in adults; polyneuropathy and/or Guillian Barre diagnosed patients, in some cases needing ventilator support.

In answer to your question could kids being treated with IV antibiotics have actually had HIB? Possibly I suppose; it was along time ago.

Out of interest, I did check the manufacturers inserts on HIB vaccines; it appears that side effects of some of the HIB vaccines can include both guillian barre and apnea, as well as seizures.
So a cost benefit approach comparing damage from disease, versus damage from vaccine, would have to include this also.
The idea of a baby stopping breathing ( apnea) could be very serious and also result in either death or brain damage. Having read about this as a reaction, I wonder how many SIDS cases ( the baby suddenly stopped breathing) are actually linked to HIB vaccination? I seem to remember that SIDS tends to cluster at around the age of 2 to 4 months?
For the HIB vaccine , first dose is normally given at 2 months, and second dose at 4 months.

ttps://www.gsksource.com/pharma/content/dam/GlaxoSmithKline/US/en/Prescribing_Information/Hiberix/pdf/HIBERIX.PDF

David Burd; I am very glad you found that article interesting.

ATSC,

Dr. Mendelsohn also said that tetanus protection from the vaccine lasts at least forty years, longer than the ten they say. He said that all servicemen in WWII got the tetanus vaccine, and even in the early '80s when he was writing, that none of them had ever gotten tetanus. Most sources, even vaccine critics, say that the vaccine works to prevent tetanus, and it's one that people should seriously consider.

Of course vaccine-injury is avoidable by getting no vaccines. The question is whether the person will be disabled or killed by a vaccine-preventable disease. I have mentioned that my father got malaria at twelve in Louisiana (never a vaccine for it) and saw a man die of tetanus. And that my mother got tearful all her life when she remembered a neighbor child who died of diphtheria. And that I had a roommate Tina who had been permanently crippled by polio.

You probably have a lot of relatives who died of contagious disease, but there may be no surviving record of them. My maternal grandmother's father was Augustus Jordan Brooks, from Tazewell, Virginia, originally, later went to Lake Travis, Texas. His father had died at a Yankee prisoner of war camp in Barbour, West Virginia, in 1863. He had left his wife, Sallie Ferguson Brooks, and eight children back on his farm. That same year, 1863, Sallie and four of her children all died of spinal meningitis. Sarah Jane, Augustus Jordan, Rufus Frank, and Fidelia survived. William James (1848-1863), Margaret Cordelia (1852-1863), Alice (1857-1863), and Arabella (1860-1863) all died horribly, in terror and great pain. I tracked down the four surviving children on Ancestry.com, wondering what had happened to them after losing both parents and half their siblings in one year. And in the census records for 1870 I found them all, four different neighboring farms had taken them in. But what a tragedy.

There was no secret to some people's surviving and some dying of contagious disease. Nutritional status matters, but many well-nourished people have always died in outbreaks of contagious disease. Again, I don't think at this time many people would die or be disabled even if everyone stopped vaxxing. Relatively speaking. I am also vaccine-damaged and disabled with MS. My daughter is vaccine-damaged and disabled with autism. But I can't disregard those killed by the diseases. But it is IMPERATIVE that everyone realize that we are always talking about averages and the majority. If no one got the measles vaccine, most people would be healthier for just getting measles, but some would be disabled and some would die of it. If no one got the Hib vaccine, I think Hib disease would come back. There's no reason why it wouldn't. We're sicker than we were in the '80s, not healthier. And some children would be disabled or die of it. ALSO true that the vaccines often disable or even kill.

Cia,

"There have been many children injured or killed by both the diseases and the vaccines. All of them should be protected to the greatest degree possible."

Vaccine-caused injury and death is completely avoidable. I think we need to find out what has been protecting the unvaccinated who lived until they were elderly. When I look at our family tree dating back to the mid-1800s, no one died from an infectious disease. Without vaccines to protect them, how did they survive all these disease-causing germs?

"There's nothing magical about two-year olds, and certainly no one is immune at any age from devastating vaccine reactions. But as Tim said, Better heavier, older, single, no Tylenol. There are a lot fewer severe reactions the older the child is. "

My son was vaccine-injured at the age of two so regardless of whether there are fewer reactions in older children and adults, vaccination at any age can be dangerous.

"Children two years old are running around and more likely to get a tetanus-prone wound. But certainly a violent vaccine reaction is always possible. But you need to weigh it against the risk of tetanus."

Tetanus was one of the diseases that I was concerned about when our unvaccinated son worked with horses for five years, but by then I had read that tetanus is not an immunising disease so I don't think that the tetanus vaccine would have protected him, and it was the last vaccine that Dr Robert Mendelsohn rejected. Hib is also not an immunising disease.

They're now looking to create a new vaccine for Hia, then, presumably, Hic, d, e, f, g.......z. I don't think it's wise to try to wipe out bacteria that normally does nothing because others will take their place. It would be far better for scientists to actually discover what causes invasive disease in the few instead of vaccinating the healthy and well-nourished who are not at risk with vaccines that are in themselves dangerous.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24268829/
Lancet Infect Dis. 2014 Jan;14(1):70-82. doi: 10.1016/S1473-3099(13)70170-1. Epub 2013 Nov 20.
Haemophilus influenzae serotype a as a cause of serious invasive infections

"Since the introduction of Hib conjugate vaccines in the 1990s, the epidemiology of invasive H influenzae disease has changed substantially, with most infections now caused by non-Hib strains. We discuss the importance of H influenzae serotype a (Hia) as a cause of serious morbidity and mortality and its global epidemiology, clinical presentation, microbiology, immunology, prevention, and control. Much like Hib, the capsule of Hia is an important virulence factor contributing to the development of invasive disease. Molecular typing of Hia has identified distinct clonal groups, with some linked to severe disease and high case-fatality rates." PMID: 24268829

And looking at the first column of the article you posted, it says, ,"In addition to the considerable mortality associated with it, Hib meningitis is a major threat to those children who survive the disease. They present with a high incidence of permanent neurologic sequelae, which range from subtle learning and social adjustment deficits to hearing loss, cerebral palsy and mental retardation. These sequelae are detected in at least 20 to 45% of survivors. however, the incidence may be considerably higher; new testing methods are uncovering previously unsuspected sequelae in children once considered to be normal ." and at the bottom of the page, "There is no question that many survivors of Hib meningitis suffer from long term neurologic sequelae that cause significant handicaps later in life".

Why aren't they doing this kind of testing on children who've had serious and severe vaccine reactions like my son instead of dismissing their symptoms of disease after vaccination, ignoring regression and blaming autism for their deficits?

"Koch's postulates were not abandoned, yes they were modified in the light of the discovery of asymptomatic carriers of cholera"

Hahahahahaha!!! So abandoning a postulate altogether isn't the same as abandoning it.

Right.

"and more recent versions have been proposed using molecular techniques,"

So you admit the original one was irrelevant and wrong but you put it forward as proof of the germ theory anyway?

Why is it that you can't argue the case without being fundamentally dishonest eindecker? You might want to think about what that says about the coherence of your beliefs.

"but leave that to one side & let's return to what started this discussion ie H influenza meningitis, I posted the CSF of a patient with Haemophilus influenzae meningitis, see anything, oh yes pale Gram negative rods plus masses of white blood cells In a healthy individual CSF is free of bacteria, so what do you think that the presence of HI bacteria & WBCs in a CSF sample from a person with suspected meningitis indicates RTP? CSF is unlike blood where occasionally bacteria are shed into the blood stream, for example grinding your teeth."

Really?

Really?

So far you have accepted that the germ theory has zero logic and that Koch's postulates are meaningless and ever changing. So everything. Everything rests on this.

That there is absolutely zero chance of having any bacteria in healthy patients in the CSF.

So if that is wrong. Then everything you believe about this issue is a lie isn't it?

"Listeria monocytogenes meningitis (Niedman, 1980) in a significant minority of cases (about 20%) will present with a type C CSF. This peculiar gram-positive rod with characteristic "tumbling motility" exhibits a marked neurotropism. Up to 75% of cases of listeriosis in adults reported to the Centers for Disease Control in 1971 had meningitis. The organism has a propensity to afflict those at the extremes of life and immunosuppressed hosts, particularly renal transplant recipients. However, in the review cited, consisting of 94 cases, 30% occurred in apparently healthy individuals."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK398/#

Ruh roh.

"Care to define what “poisoning” & “infection” mean in this case."

Yes. Infection is with a pathogen that autonomously replicates. Poisoning is one that does not. Bacteria are the clean up - that is why they are there in sick tissue. An injection of someone with a vast amount of bacteria will be toxic but bacteria do not just invade us and start causing pathogenesis for no apparent reason.

If bacteria did anything other than eat destroyed tissue then we would regularly wake up with gangrene.

"Different organisms, of course you do realise you can’t literally see bacteria in a microscope of a patient with sepsis don’t you RTP? There’s maybe c10 bacteria/ml of blood but millions of red blood cells/ml so with blood samples it’s what grows on the petri dish: septicaemia has low numbers of bacteria / ml of blood"

I have no idea what the point of that is. If such detection is impossible with such small amounts then how can you have claimed it for CSF?

"But this is all made up nonsense to you isn’t it, but get back to my question of the seriously ill patient with pale Gram negative rods & 3+ WBC in the microscope slide of the CSF sample, what’s your interpretation of this observation RTP, and of course, hopefully the resolution by treating with appropriate antibiotics?"

Sorry? Does it work both ways?

If doctors who believe in the germ theory prescribe the wrong drugs, would that prove that the germ theory was a lie?

Actually, I remember reading a study that showed that knowledge of the particular bacteria supposedly responsible seems to have no bearing on the efficacy of the treatment.

And there is this https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15892486

Interesting. I am not saying I agree with the results, but the point is that it was a RDBCT and I dare say you don't accept that this proves that homeopathy is fundamentally sound.

"Of course in your world you'll have shut down the clinical microbiology laboratories and abandoned antibiotics 'cause the "germ theory" is all nonsense....."

Yep. And I dare say that without kids being poisoned by vaccines on a regular basis, the amount of sepsis would be greatly reduced.

Hera, thanks for your reference describing Sanofi Pasteur vaccine vials being "delaminated" by the vaccine excipients therein. Let me see if I can make sense of this: The vaccine itself is so chemically active it 'delaminates' a glass vial --- AND such a toxic brew is injected into babies and infants!!??

Here is an excerpt from your reference:

"Sanofi's rush to understand the scope of its delamination problem began April 2, 2013, according to the electronic "Biological Product Deviation Report" the company submitted to the FDA in accordance with regulations. The report, sent to the FDA in June, said two vials of the ActHIB vaccine were "observed to contain clear, colorless particulates," and that those vials were associated with two distributed vaccine lots due to expire Sept. 5 and 6, 2014.

Delamination is caused by the separation of the various components that go into the making of glass, explained Arun Varshneya, a retired Alfred University professor of glass engineering science who is president of Saxon Glass Technologies in Alfred, N.Y. The high alkalinity of vaccines and other injectable drugs can cause some of the components to peel away from each other. Because this takes place over time, it might not be detected until after products are packaged and shipped.

After Sanofi became aware of the delamination, the Swiftwater plant examined vials that hadn't been distributed."

Thanks again for your reference --- .

Mortality was from 3-8%, maybe depending on the type of disease? I think meningitis was more deadly than the other kinds of Hib disease. At one in 350 with Hib meningitis, say it was 5% mortality, that would be one in 7000 children dying of Hib meningitis. Not a huge number, except that it would add up across the country with millions of children. And 25% emerging with a permanent disability. So that's one in 800 children in that age group with any kind of serious Hib disease, but it was most dangerous between six months and one year old, getting a permanent disability from Hib disease in the '80s. Including mental retardation and speech disabilities.

Why did it increase so much in incidence? The DPT? Antibiotics? Many factors related to increased pollution in the environment? 1987 was before the vaccine epidemic started. Breastfeeding would be the best way to prevent it, but wasn't foolproof. Sonja said the other day that she had two friends whose babies got Hib meningitis in the '80s, both breastfed, and both sustained some kind of permanent damage (if she was telling the truth). She was a nurse in the '80s, said she only treated one child for Hib meningitis, but if she was a nursery nurse, she may not have seen the older babies with it.

Hera,
I just looked for the Sell study, found it here, but only the first page if I don't buy it:
http://journals.lww.com/pidj/Citation/1987/08000/Haemophilus_influenzae_type_b_meningitis_.35.aspx

I'm going to look to see if I can find the full version somewhere else.

Hera,
I put up some of the sources for the information I had looked at in a comment here:
http://www.ageofautism.com/2016/11/vaccines-its-up-to-you.html

Please look at it and tell me what you think. I asked a doctor yesterday and he thought that what Dr. Thomas said about his hospital in the '80s always having some babies being treated for Hib disease, but none after the vaccine, was correct. He said that it wasn't in young babies (who were protected by their mothers' antibodies), but in those over eight months old. There was a study I referenced (haven't read it myself) done in the '80s which found that one in 350 babies got an invasive case of Hib disease at that time, all of them serious. I asked two of the medical shills about their experience, but haven't had time to look to see if they've replied. I'll go back and read my comment again now and look at what I quoted. I'd really like to know the truth of the matter.

Also of interest, given that we are talking about the HIB vaccine..

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/watchdog/mc-sanofi-pasteur-defective-vaccine-vials-20161210-story.html

Hans,

I completely agree that the CDC is corrupt: it is despicable, and I am glad so many are fighting to bring it to light and try to stop it. I just finished Forrest McReady's book My Incredible Opinion this morning, it is both very funny and furious at the official corruption at every level. But I think parents have to educate themselves, analyzing the sources of their information carefully, but still being aware of the dangers of some of the VPDs even here and now. I wouldn't blow off the dangers of Hib disease for older infants just because the CDC promotes a vaccine for it. I'd stay calm, breast feed the baby for at least a year, preferably two, if at all possible, and then consider whether in his circumstances, daycare and so on, the risks of the disease (severe disease affecting one in 350 in the early '80s, with 25% being permanently disabled with MR, deafness, blindness, etc. and 5% killed even with antibiotic treatment) outweighed (or not) the one in fifty with peanut allergy from the Hib vaccine (and other adverse reactions).

The CDC and our government and medical institutions are certainly very corrupt, but to not take the risks of contagious disease into consideration because of their corruption would be cutting off your nose to spite your face.

http://www.realfarmacy.com/flu-shot-pregnant/

4,250% Increase in Fetal Deaths Reported to VAERS After Flu Shot Given to Pregnant Women

Hg-enocide Western style

Here are the vaccines Cia :

We are a group of scientists at CDC that are very concerned about the current state of ethics at our agency. It appears that our mission is being influenced and shaped by outside parties and rogue interests. … it is becoming the norm and not the rare exception. Some senior management officials at CDC are clearly aware and even condone these behaviors. Others see it and turn the other way. Some staff are intimidated and pressed to do things they know are not right.

http://healthimpactnews.com/2016/the-u-s-centers-for-disease-control-a-history-of-corruption/

And I believe the myth about bees was a confusion about physics not logic.

If you think logic is fundamentally wrong then you have no choice but to accept there is no reason to believe in anything - including germ theory and vaccines.

Suit yourself.

rtp,

That's why we have an immune system. In most cases, unless a germ is unusually virulent, most people's immune systems can overcome most germs, killing them and restoring the person to health, and becoming stronger, more resilient, more flexible, and more mature in the process. On our current question sheet in our homeschooling, my daughter has to memorize that the main weapon of the Th-1 branch of the immune system is white blood cells, and that of the Th-2 branch is antibodies. Babies are born with the Th-2 system predominant, but the task of the first year is to gradually be exposed to some of the milder germs to activate and strengthen the Th-1 branch, which should be the more important one in adulthood. Vaccines force unhealthy dependence on the Th-2 system, antibody-driven.

Breastfeeding gives the nursing infant all the antibodies to all the germs the mother has ever overcome and produced antibodies to, and strengthen the development of the child's digestive and neurological systems, as well as its immune system. Good nutritional status at any age make it easier for the immune system to carry out its functions, killing any germs which threaten the integrity of the body.

Of course the germ theory is correct, I disagree with Waldorf theory on this, but the whole point of the immune system is that very few germs are going to kill fundamentally healthy, well-nourished people. In the big picture. That still leaves a lot of diseases that can kill or disable a lot of people under the right circumstances.

Now, I answered your feeble question about how you think that doctor rent seeking somehow proves the germ theory is real, are you going to answer mine?

If the germ theory were true then all doctors (and their patients) throughout history (ie including before vaccines became widely used) would have dropped dead the moment they entered their office.

And yet, that is not even remotely true.

So the germ theory is not true.

QED

Now, what do you have to respond to this? And try and make it coherent please.

John,

You're right, sorry to give you the trouble of looking for it. Thanks!

Hans Litten,

Many thanks for posting the link to Vaccine Roulette. I've been wanting to watch this documentary for a very long time.

@ around 28:00

Lea Thompson: Do you think doctors are reporting reactions?

AAP Dr Edward Mortimer: No

Lea Thompson: Why not?

Dr Mortimer: Legally it's not reportable.

Lea Thompson: Do you think doctors are warning patients about the risks?

Dr Mortimer: No

FDA Dr John Robbins says, "I think if as a parent you brought your child to a doctor for a DPT shot and the doctor said to you initially, 'Well I have to tell you that some children who get this vaccine get brain damaged', there's no question what your reaction would be as a responsible parent you'd say 'I wish not to take this vaccine'. (Now placing his hands together in a prayerful fashion as if he were a priest) "But, we do things together as a community to protect each other."

Nothing has changed. Richard Pan and the rest of the medical community who want to force mandatory vaccinations on everyone and disallow any medical exemptions give no thought whatsoever to the vaccine injured and killed. To them, it's all about herd immunity, now renamed "Community Immunity" by Pan.

I think those of us with vaccine injured children would all agree with Jim Grant, Scott's father who says, "I often wonder about those people who do these studies and are ultimately the directors of them and so forth, what they would say and how they would feel if it did in fact happen to one of theirs. It's an altogether different ball game then".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtOh6vFnWg4

John,
No, I answered Linda at the top, and then copied out passages with page numbers from several books which talked about Hib disease: Dr. Sears, Dr. Thomas, Vaccines 2.0, The Vaccine Guide, and I can't remember if I quoted from any more. Dr. Neustaedter referred to a study which found that one in (what was it?) 350 children in the '80s got invasive Hib disease. I don't see it here now.

Cia, the mantra that "billions of people" died from contagious disease *all* comes from made up data.

All *actual* counted data that we have (from a few select countries for a few hundred years) shows that the "billions of people" mantra is abject nonsense.

Plus the fact that the germ theory is mathematically impossible and anybody (who hasn't been subject to the brainwashing) can plainly see that if it were true, doctors would have the lifespan of a fruitfly.

So what we have is valid (actually counted) data and logic/maths on one side telling us that germ theory is baseless and made up data (guesses on uniform distributions) and authority/popularity on the other.

Authority/popularity usually wins over logic and evidence for hearts and minds but it doesn't make it true.

Rtp,
Did you read Dr. Humphries' Dissolving Illusions? I read it three years ago and was shocked by the huge numbers of children dying of contagious diseases. If you don't believe in the dangers of many contagious diseases, then I"m afraid we have no common ground on which to discuss the issues.

ATSC,

There have been many children injured or killed by both the diseases and the vaccines. All of them should be protected to the greatest degree possible.

There's nothing magical about two-year olds, and certainly no one is immune at any age from devastating vaccine reactions. But as Tim said, Better heavier, older, single, no Tylenol. There are a lot fewer severe reactions the older the child is. Dr. Thompson's study found the quadrupling of autism in black male toddlers under the age of three compared to older than three. Age matters and is one of the factors to be considered. At two the child has a more mature immune system and is more stable overall in his health. Deaths from measles sank to very few after three, while much higher at one, two, and under one. Children two years old are running around and more likely to get a tetanus-prone wound. But certainly a violent vaccine reaction is always possible. But you need to weigh it against the risk of tetanus.

For the Hib, I'd say that if the parents choose the vaccine, the child is probably protected by placental immunity and breastfeeding for the first six months, but the second six months is the period when he most needs protection from Hib disease.

Cia,

"But I believe the doctors who seem to me to be honest and compassionate when they describe how serious a problem it had become thirty years ago, many babies killed by it, many disabled by it. "

We are the same age. I also don't remember anyone to ever have Hib. I don't remember children getting deathly ill in the 50s or 60s. No one in fact. I don't believe these doctors. I think they are spouting what they were told and if they did see disease, I don't believe they understand the etiology - that it was likely caused by another medical intervention. MDs think in a tunnel, one thing at a time. They don't connect dots, and all the answers are in the dots.

John Bennett Robbins (born December 1, 1932)[1] is a senior investigator at the National Institutes of Health, best known for his development of the vaccine against bacterial meningitis (Haemophilus influenzae type B (Hib)) with his colleague Rachel Schneerson.
Bacterial meningitis is the leading cause of acquired mental retardation in children.
Robbins is a recipient of the 1996 Albert Lasker Award for Clinical Medical Research,[2] the Pasteur Award from the World Health Organization and the Albert B. Sabin Gold Medal in 2001 which he received for playing a major role in the development of Hib conjugate vaccine that is now used throughout the world and has led to a dramatic decline in the number of infants and children suffering from meningitis and other systemic infections such as osteomyelitis and pneumonia.[3] He is also a member of the National Academy of Science.

The film Vaccine Roullete:
And here is the so called Dr Robbins saying there isnt enough fda money to correctly investigate the pertusis vaccine , makes him a criminal in my eyes .

Eindeker,

The 60 Minutes documentary was obviously biased, and a hatchet job on Dr Viera Scheibner whose understandable angry outburst (shown twice) after being deliberately provoked by the interviewer was only included to put her in a bad light. Dr Scheibner was right when she said it was a farce. Timewise, she was given approximately three minutes (in total) to speak compared to almost ten minutes devoted to grieving parents, shocking photos of sick, hospitalised babies - and Dr Peter McIntyre criticizing Dr Wakefield.

When McIntyre was asked: "Should the medical community be more candid about the risks of vaccines, both now and in the past in order to overcome some of the anxiety about giving kids the jab?"

He answered: "Absolutely. And, believe me, if we were concerned about something not working or particularly something was causing harm, we would be the first to put up our hands and say let's stop it."

Which is of course nonsense. The medical community is silent on the risks of vaccines. Try searching for risks or serious reactions on the Immunise Australia website:

http://www.immunise.health.gov.au/internet/immunise/publishing.nsf/Content/frequently-asked-questions#17

Did the medical community immediately alert the public in 2010 that there was a problem with the flu vaccine that they were injecting into their babies and children? They did not. 111 children were taken to the Emergency Department, 60 children were hospitalised, 23 with convulsions, one child was in a coma, and another was "seriously ill" and in a critical state.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFFp_b2UnTI

"The medical profession knew that these adverse reactions were occurring and, very sadly, nothing was said to the public".

Saba Button was profoundly and permanently brain damaged by this vaccine and two-year old Ashley Epapara died.

A few years later, this was all Dr Peter McIntyre had to say (@ 5.56):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht_QAIBwFFg

"We did have unexpected problems with the flu vaccine causing fevers a few years ago. When that came to light, it was unexpected but it was dealt with very quickly and the vaccine was withdrawn from use completely until we worked out what was happening".

What did the public hear? They withdrew the vaccine because of..... "fevers", which are considered to be a common reaction to vaccines. McIntyre neglected to mention those poor children who'd suffered convulsions, coma, serious illness, brain damage and death from this vaccine.

If the 60 Minutes team had wanted to produce a balanced documentary, they could have interviewed families of children hospitalised by the vaccine, and the Button and Epapara families, but those children, like all vaccine-injured and killed children, have long been forgotten by Dr Peter McIntyre and the medical community.

http://vaccine-injury.info/about.cfm

And it has recently been confirmed by NICU nurses that Dr Viera Scheibner was right about breathing patterns changing after vaccination.

Rtp,

That's one of the problems of taking out a lot of the germs that cause one disease: often others expand to fill the gap created. In this case, taking out Haemophilus influenzae germs led to a vast increase in Pneumococcal meningitis germs, which caused a vast increase in that kind of meningitis. Then when those were taken out by Prevnar, meningococcal meningitis germs increased to fill that gap.

Again, I don't have all the answers. I hope that the homeopathic nosodes would safely and effectively prevent the diseases in children. But even with the problems and the adverse reactions, you can't just let a thousand babies a year die of Hib disease without trying to do something to prevent it. Vaccines are one possible alternative, but there are many better alternatives when it is possible to implement them: breastfeeding, avoidance of daycare, treatment with vitamin C as well as antibiotics, and homeopathic preventives and remedies.

Hera

After all these years posting wisely as Hera I wouldn't like you to be anyone else, though I realise you are much better natured than the original.

I read what you said Eindecker and I answered it precisely.

If the vaccine did what it was promised to do we would have vastly less meningitis, pneumonia and sepsis today.

But we don't. So the only rational conclusion is that the vaccine was worthless and they just shifted the blame from one ubiquitous bacteria to another ubiquitous bacteria.

The only other possible conclusion is that eliminating one bacteria through vaccination leads to some evolutionary pressure on other bacteria that cause the same symptoms to take its place.

I don't buy that but even if it were true it would still mean that vaccination was a complete waste of time.

And epiglottitis falls have certainly not been reflected in overall falls in respiratory hospitalizations.

Yet again, more renaming.

There are no vaccine success stories.

100 per cent of those that appear to be are just self fulfilling prophecies.

Hi Eindeker;
what I find even more intriguing is the rate of epiglottis where they don't vaccinate for HIB

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.570.7263&rep=rep1&type=pdf

From the article

" In Asia,paediatric acute epiglottitis is a relatively rare disease
even though the HiB vaccine is not extensively used(2)."

Apparently, we are told, Asia just never had much epiglottis...The reason we don't have much; a highly effective vaccine, apparently. The reason they don't have much; no vaccine and they just don't have it. Apparently it has always been rare there. Makes you wonder.

By the way, I have always wondered if your name is from the German plane , and is meant to be a subtle insult; to us, I'm guessing. Am I right? If so, it seems a little childish.

RTP I wrote In the UK cases of bacterial meningitis due to Haemophilus influenza b declined by 98% not if meningitis (and pneumonia and sepsis) fell by 98 per cent?

Prevnar is a vaccine against Streptococcus pneumonia strains, but I guess if, for whatever reason, you don't believe that there are such things as pathogenic microorganisms that cause infectious disease she still wrongly believes in germ theory all this is lost to you. By the way notice the parallel reduction in epiglottitis in countries implementing HiB vaccination, strange that isn't it?

And your comment about doctors checking for bacteria when they suspect meningitis is nonsense.

Even if they check for every possible bacteria today diligently and without prejudice (an absurd proposition given we all have trillions of bacteria on us and there are supposedly dozens of bacteria that meningitis is blamed on) only a fool would believe that they have always done so since Adam was a boy rendering the historical time series comparisons meaningless - apples with oranges.

Greg Beattie understands this. So too does Scheibner but she still wrongly believes in germ theory.

You don't. They are both far better sources of information than you.

But even then, the point is moot because even if the vaccine successfully reduced the bacteria, if it doesn't actually reduce meningitis - and the stats clearly show that it does not - all you've proven is that the bacteria was never responsible in the first place.

No Eindecker. Meningitis overall did not fall as a result of the vaccine.

They just stopped blaming Hib.

You should know this because we have to keep vaccinating for one meningitis germ after another.

What possible reason could there have been for Prevnar if meningitis (and pneumonia and sepsis) fell by 98 per cent?

Meningitis deaths have fallen but that was just a continuation of the previous trend.

David,

All I can do it try to decide if I think the source I'm reading is giving what the author believes to be accurate information, and if I trust the author. You're right, Hib disease is pretty amorphous and can take many forms. The bacteria are present in the respiratory tracts of most people most of the time. In most cases, this permits most children to catch a subclinical form of the disease and get permanent immunity. In what had become the largest percentage of children ever by the early '80s, for reasons I'm not sure of, it caused serious, invasive disease which was often fatal or disabling. And even saying that is based completely on faith in what I have read.

But after reading what Dr. Sears and Dr. Thomas said about the many children they used to treat for invasive Hib disease in the '80s, Dr. Thomas said that at any time there were several children in his hospital with it, and after the vaccine, none, Dr. Mumpers saying that many of these babies had a lot of pus taken out with their spinal taps, and Dr. Neustaedter's saying that Hib disease was not a relatively mild childhood disease and was not uncommon before the vaccine, I'd have to say that it was a problem which I think it was probably appropriate to address with a vaccine. At that time, they had no idea that the vaccine would cause peanut allergy in one in fifty. Since last night, I've been trying to calculate whether it would be better to take a one in fifty risk of peanut allergy or a one in several hundred chance of invasive Hib disease. In most cases, death is not caused by either one, but in some it is. There's really no way to do the calculation. There are "only" maybe twenty deaths a year in the US from peanut allergy, while, if the figures I have seen are correct, there were a thousand deaths a year from Hib disease. I was wondering this morning if it would be practical to try to convince all women in the US to breastfeed for at least a year, partly to prevent this disease. I used to think, well, they could pump breast milk if they had to work and freeze it until needed. They could find a woman who took in a small number of children in her home to care for, and not put their baby in daycare. I would have to say that ultimately I don't have the answers. Most mothers are not going to go to that much trouble to give their babies breast milk. I wish they would, but it's going to be a long time before all of them so. It might be more practical to set up a state-sponsored program of women taking care of not more than two or three babies and small children in their homes, but that wouldn't eliminate all exposure to contagious disease in babies (and they have to be exposed sooner or later), just reduce it.

And since most adults have never gotten the Hib vaccine, most of us continue to carry and spread the germs, which for most is a good thing, but for some babies can be fatal.

I don't think it's a good thing to try to wipe out trillions of universal germs which may be positive most of the time, but, other than maybe the homeopathic nosode, I really don't know what to recommend to protect babies from invasive Hib disease when the mothers can't or don't want to breastfeed them for at least a year. I wouldn't give the vaccine at two months old, when they usually start, but would wait until four months old. Babies from birth to six months old are protected by their mothers' antibodies (if they got the natural disease from subclinical exposure). It's from six to twelve months old that is the period of highest fatality and disability from invasive Hib disease.

I would really like to see a large-scale trial done of the homeopathic nosodes for this and other VPDs. What a relief if they were effective in protecting people from the most dangerous of the VPDs, and could solve this problem.

http://www.drcarley.com/Horrors_of_Vaccination_Exposed.pdf

The vaccines of yester-year through those rose tinted glasses .

One comment was considered not suitable for AoA and censored out .

ciaparker | December 08, 2016 at 09:14 PM

Heard of the Leicester Vaccine riots ? 1860's was it ?
The 1918 Spanish Influenza rumours (that it was a vaccine caused pandemic) ?

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/09/12/free-book-documenting-the-horrors-of-vaccination.aspx
BY CHAS. M. HIGGINS 1920 Published by Chas M. Higgins, Brooklyn.

And regarding those secret ingredients again , HCG hidden in tetanus vaccines to mass sterilise .
Phillipines 1995 (admitted on the BBC no less)
Mexico 1974
Kenya 2015 (Obama's country of origin) .
Venezuela , Sri Lanka , Nigeria , nssm200 .

While we are at it , what are your views on the fluoridation of the public water supply ?
Like these criminals care about anyones teeth .

1960: Sv40 in the polio vaccine causing a cancer Pandemic to 120M americans as admitted on the cdc's own website .

Global autism numbers now admitted to be approximately 100M worldwide .

Then there is the most mysterious Aids pandemic , which Dr. Luc Montagnier himself admitted to
Kary Mullis (PCR nobel prize winner) had nothing to do with HIV .

Then there is the Maurice Hilleman recordings not meant for public consumption where the godfather of vaccines admits vaccination is "bargain basement" healthcare .
He admits they brought in Aids , he admits vaccines association with tumours & cancers .
And that was at least 20 years ago .

http://www.vaccinationinformationnetwork.com/an-interview-with-dr-archie-kalokerinos-md/

Archie Kalokerinos: My final conclusion after forty years or more in this business is that the unofficial policy of the World Health Organisation and the unofficial policy of ‘Save the Children Fund’ and almost all those organisations is one of murder and genocide.
They want to make it appear as if they are saving these kids, but in actual fact they don’t. I am talking of those at the very top. Beneath that level is another level of doctors and health workers, like myself, who don’t really understand what they are doing. But I cannot see any other possible explanation: It is murder and it is genocide. And I tell you what: when the black races really wake up to what we have done to them they are not going to thank us very much. And if you want to see what harm vaccines do, don’t come to Australia or New Zealand or any place, go to Africa and you will see it there. (& this man had the backing of Linus Pauling 2 times nobel prize winner)

So you tell me Cia , how many vaccinations do you think the British Royal family have ever had ?
Or the Rothschild family ? Or the Rockefellor family ? Or the Gates family ? and so on
I bet I can hazard a guess , I bet you anything you like , that it is zero !

I appreciate the comments of those of you who showed respect for my opinions. Thank you. I don't ask for agreement, just for serious thought. If you had lived in the nineteenth century, at a time when tens of thousands of children a year were dying of measles, pertussis, scarlet fever, or diphtheria, which means that children in every town, even in most families, were dying of them, what would you have done if there had been vaccines for them available? Now, in the First World, you're not taking much of a risk even if you don't get any of the vaccines for your children; but what would you have done if the choice were more stark: vaccines or death for a large percentage of children?

For years, maybe since I read The Peanut Allergy Epidemic, which proves that the Hib meningitis vaccine causes peanut allergy, now in one in fifty American children, I was completely against the Hib vaccine. I thought that since breastfeeding is very effective in preventing it, and I believe that if the pertussis vaccine were not given, there would be almost no meningitis, that that was enough to say to forget the Hib vaccine. It was just a few weeks ago that I read more about how relatively common and severe Hib disease (not just meningitis) had become by the early '80s. I was surprised, and surprised at how often it killed or caused a permanent disability. I had never heard of it until I was expecting and reading baby care books. I read some personal accounts of doctors who had treated it in the '80s, when it reached its highest rate ever. And then I read how fast the rates of Hib disease dropped after the vaccine was introduced in the late '80s, until now, when almost all babies get the vaccine, there are close to no cases of Hib disease. I still think it's better to get a subclinical case and get permanent immunity, as most children did before the vaccine, but in my imagination, it's all normal and happy, no vaccine, happy ending. And it would still be a case of the numbers favoring those who didn't get the vaccine and didn't get the disease. It would be something that all parents would have to consider carefully. One in fifty chance of peanut allergy is something to consider, sometimes fatal. But by 1982 there were 20,000 cases of invasive Hib disease every year in the US, with 5% of cases fatal, even with antibiotic treatment, and 25% having a permanent disability. The rates went from 20,000 a year to close to none within a few years of the vaccine's being introduced. And that's something to at least consider as well. If a child is breastfed until at least one, I'd say to not get the vaccine. Otherwise, I'd have to say to think about it.

And tetanus is an ever-present possibility, the disease terrible and often fatal even now. I am certain that the vaccine is effective, and protects for at least forty years after getting the initial series. The vaccine can cause serious side effects, as all of them can. My daughter and I are not going to get it or any other shots again, but I think parents should think about it.

I would say that no one should ever get the pertussis, measles, mumps, chickenpox, hep-A, rotavirus, flu, (I've had all of these), polio (unless it came back), or Gardasil. Probably not Prevnar or Menactra, but I'd have to research them and the diseases more to see if I'm still deadset against them. No rubella vaccine unless you haven't gotten it naturally by the time you might get pregnant, and then think about it. I'm not pro-vaccine, but in the case of tetanus and Hib disease, I'm afraid enough of the diseases that I can't say it's always better to not get the vaccines.

It's obviously not fair to say that I am a pharma plant. I am absolutely against all mandates, but I think everyone should remember how terrible many of the diseases used to be. I don't think anyone would say that the 20,000 babies who used to get invasive Hib disease thirty years ago were not important or that such a thing could never happen again. We'd have to see, and see if not giving as many vaccines overall resulted in fewer babies getting Hib disease. And it's probably going to be a long time before we reach the point of not many babies getting the pertussis vaccine, which depresses immune function. In the early '80s the vaccine epidemic hadn't started yet: they were getting just DPT, polio, and MMR (already very dangerous and too much, but many think it would be good to return to the safer, early '80s schedule).

I agree that vaccines are dangerous and unpredictable. The childhood diseases were beneficial for the vast majority. But if you were in a situation in which diphtheria, polio, tetanus, or Hib disease were a possibility, then I think you would owe it to your child to research the question carefully.

Would it not seem intrusive to tell me that I HAVE to be 100% against all vaccines, that I HAVE to believe that none of them has EVER been effective, that none of them has EVER prevented a single case of any disease, and that all the VPDs were actually always very mild and not worth worrying about? And what are you going to do to me if I say that I cannot believe these things? I think it's more respectful of the suffering of both humans and animals to consider how much suffering both the diseases and the vaccines have caused, and to try to tread very carefully looking for the least harmful path, but aware that no one can ever be sure that he has chosen right.

"Call it paranoid if you like , but I was coerced against my better (and as it turns out superior)judgement into allowing my child to be vaccinated 8/9 years ago and the price I have paid for that weakness on my part is a very heavy one (my child has suffered immeasurably). So I cannot listen to anyone in our world (or theirs) making any case for the fraud they call "vaccination""

I agree with Hans. I don't think Cia is a pharma plant but why would anyone who has lived through this nightmare promote any vaccines when they are all dangerous?

And, Cia, what is magical about two year-olds when 2, 3 and 4 year-olds have reacted to their vaccines and regressed? I'd much rather tell parents to do their own research than tell them not to vaccinate, or vaccinate. After all, they will have to live with the consequences.

Sorry about the typos
"and one pro vaccine extremist on this site talked about"
By the way, I respect Cia very much, though I don't necessarily agree with all her opinions. I do think it is great to have diverse opinions here. What I am against is misinformation and lack of medical freedom of choice.

As many already know my specialty is the condemnation of annual mercury-laden flu shots, ceaselessly promoted and coerced onto everyone by Government/School autocrats and bullies. Just yesterday at a local CVS drug store I briefly mentioned to a lady next to me in the check-out line how flu shots were all risk and no benefit (of course, Flu shot promotions were displayed everywhere).

Her brief, polite response was she was terrified of getting the flu, so she always gets the shot(s). Unfortunately this is typical; our Medical System led by the CDC has obviously done a marvelous job of brainwashing over the decades.

At any rate, here's a reference from Vaccine Papers that unequivocally shows the dangers and uselessness of flu shots - and the flu shots so evaluated did NOT contain (best I can tell) Thimerosal with its 25 micrograms of ethylmercury. Please pass it on.

http://vaccinepapers.org/influenza-vaccine-immune-suppression/#disqus_thread

Linda1 | December 07, 2016 at 02:31 PM

I am fighting a one man war here and Cia is conceding the case for some vaccinations .
And others on our side are doing that too .
All vaccinations are rubbish and a crime against humanity .There is no defence .
Call it paranoid if you like , but I was coerced against my better (and as it turns out superior)judgement into allowing my child to be vaccinated 8/9 years ago and the price I have paid for that weakness on my part is a very heavy one (my child has suffered immeasurably). So I cannot listen to anyone in our world (or theirs) making any case for the fraud they call "vaccination" -
I call it "extermination" .

http://healthimpactnews.com/2016/hpv-vaccine-scam-nih-scientist-exposes-corruption-in-cancer-and-vaccine-industries/

Dr. Mahin Khatami has written a scathing commentary on the HPV vaccine that was published this month (December 2016) in the journal Clinical and Translational Medicine. The title is: “Safety concerns and hidden agenda behind HPV vaccines: another generation of drug-dependent society?”

Dr. Khatami’s bio is quite extensive, and as a retired professor and former program director at both the National Institutes of Health (NIH) and National Cancer Institute (NCI), her criticisms of both the cancer and vaccine industries cannot easily be written off as the work of a “quack,” which is the standard response from the medical industry who seeks to discredit anyone who does not tow the party line.

I too usually tell parent about the dangers of vaccines and suggest that if they vaccinate use the SHOTS method. I also warn that if their child receives an antibiotic use pro-biotics and wait at least 4 to 6 weeks after before giving any shots. I believe, for my child, that the antibiotic given around birth, due to a possible infection, fouled up his gut and then he was unable to handle the mercury leaden shots.

I would go with the only good vaccine is the one not given. If it's too hazardous to shoot into the sink, why inject it into your child?

Hans,
You're getting paranoid now. Cia is no plant.

Cia I am convinced now you are a Pharma plant and I've had enough of you .

Great! Easy to remember. Thanks.