@ Eindeker ah, evidence-free snarky criticism: that's the ticket, that's the way to make your case! Geez... Wake up, open your eyes, look at the facts.

Do you have any evidence to support your opinions?

https://wddty.com/news/2016/06/cdc-knew-that-vaccines-increased-autism-risk-eight-fold-new-papers-reveal.html

The US’s health regulators have been hiding data that establishes that vaccines have been causing autism and neuro-developmental disorders, a whistle-blower claims. The CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) has been forced to release documents that reveal that vaccines increase the risk nearly eight times.
Under Freedom of Information legislation, the CDC has released data that “proves unequivocally that in 2000, CDC officials were informed internally of the very high risk of autism, non-organic sleep disorder and speech disorder associated with thimerosal exposure,” said CDC epidemiologist Thomas Verstraeten. Thimerosal is a preservative that contains mercury included in most vaccines until 1999 in the US, and is still used in small quantities in many flu shots today.

It appears that the 7.6 times raised risk was known throughout the CDC, and a 1999 paper referring to it was published only after it had been approved at the highest levels of the organisation.

For Justin, please watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7GTiagWSOU

"Published on Jun 4, 2016
My daughter suffered a severe adverse vaccine reaction that I never thought was possible. Her Pediatrician never told us this sort of reaction could happen. We trusted him when he said vaccines were safe. That she would only have a sore spot on each leg and MAYBE a fever. Most parents go into their child's well visit blind, not knowing any better trusting their doctor when they tell them not to worry. Nothing will happen. I knew vaccines were dangerous but I never knew how dangerous they really were until I experienced what I did the afternoon of Sept 14, 2011.. It is so important to understand that when the package insert says SIDS they mean SIDS!"

For those who still promote the flu and pertussis vaccines (or any others) :

http://www.naturalblaze.com/2016/06/how-does-the-health-of-vaccinated-children-compare-to-unvaccinated-children.html

The research demonstrates conclusively that unvaccinated children enjoy far superior health when compared to those vaccinated. Unvaccinated children experience almost no incidence of autism, autoimmune disorders, asthma, allergies, diabetes and other common childhood diseases which have reached epidemic proportions in recent years.

One of the most comprehensive studies is an ongoing comparative survey by German homeopathic physician Andreas Bachmair. Bachmair is conducting an independent study comparing the health of vaccinated to unvaccinated children with 17,461 participants.

This research has found a significant increase in the following diseases in those vaccinated: asthma, allergies, bronchitis, otitis media (ear infections), hay fever, herpes, neurodermatitis, hyperactivity, scoliosis, epilepsy, autoimmune disorders, thyroid disease, autism and diabetes. Furthermore, Bachmair discovered three other studies which substantiated his findings. To see the chart with the comparison in diseases, visit this link provided by the Vermont Coalition for Vaccine Choice.

Francis -

Your distinctions (1,2) looks ok, but surely it follows that Wakefield is therefore anti vaccine policy? By your definition his being defined as purely anti-vaccine seems a non-sequitur.

Linda,
It is extremely sinister. As you said, the page where it used to be at the Cool Springs page is now just blank. There's a hit job piece on it that was reprinted at many websites. I finally hit "cached" under one of the google suggestions, and got the original piece, that already had dozens of comments just a day or so after it went up. You're right, someone got to them for the temerity of criticizing this medical practice for having the temerity to say that vaccines can cause autism, and used some sort of coercion to get them to shut up and take it down. Here's the original, now cached, short piece:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:o35jdu8lWoYJ:www.csfmed.net/no-more-vaccines-at-cool-springs-family-medicine/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
log » No More Vaccines at Cool Springs Family Medicine
No More Vaccines at Cool Springs Family Medicine
May 31, 2016
________________________________________
"We will no longer be administering Vaccines at Cool Springs Family Medicine (CSFM).
How come?
1. Because they can cause Autism – yes, I’ve had 15 years’ experience in taking care of ASD kids, that’s a lot of vaccine injury stories from moms. Don’t tell me that they are making it up or they are just reaching for an explanation, or that it was a coincidence or that they are just too stressed, or that they are uninformed. All of those arguments are stupid.
Don’t quote the single study by the CDC that shows that MMR is not linked to Autism. One of the authors of that paper, Dr. Thompson, said that the data was falsified and the study manipulated. So, with this information and the lack of studies that prove the safety of combined vaccines, I can do no harm, so I’m out.
2. Polysorbate 80, Aluminum, formaldehyde, animal DNA with viruses, and many other ingredients in vaccines, are not good to inject into babies. Think of cancer, and autoimmune disease.
3. Epigenetics is a new science that explains exactly why, not every child is going to react the same way to vaccines, and sacrificing the few, for the many is not acceptable. Actually, if you understand the science, which many mothers with vaccine inured children do, you can see that it is actually many are at risk and are asked to be sacrificed for the few.
4. We can do better. Right now, it is a whole lot cheaper to propagate a multi-million dollar campaign to promote vaccines and hide behind the vaccine injury protection act, than it is to develop a safe vaccine program.
5. Gardasil? Are you kidding me? It is not safe. Just read the package insert and if you are still not convinced, those that developed cervical cancer or neuroimmune disorders or other complications from the vaccine would be glad to talk to you.
6. Vaccine development began in earnest in the 1930’s. Genetics, Epigenetics, the role of environmental toxins on the immune system, is much more recent than that. Guess what? We know a lot more now. Isn’t it time to incorporate that knowledge into the development of safe vaccines?
7. Dr. Andew Wakefield’s research was properly defended and vindicated 4 years ago. The Lancet paper stands: There is a link between the MMR vaccine and Autism.
8. The argument that we will be thrust into the dark ages if we suspend the vaccine program is nonsense. There are many arguments against this, but, to make it simple, we are in the dark ages. We have a plague of autoimmune diseases including Autism. There is a plaque of Acquired Immune Dysfunction (ring a bell?).
Listen, I know I have been a little tongue and cheek about this, but really, I could wax on for a long time on any one of the 8 points that I brought up, and I’m sure I could list a lot more. I am not going to do that in cyperspace, I am not going to engage in internet battles, but, just as I have always done, as is my responsibility as a Family Physician, I will be an advocate for each of my patients as best as I know how. Also, I will always continue to respect the informed choices my patients make."

Now only to be found at: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:o35jdu8lWoYJ:www.csfmed.net/no-more-vaccines-at-cool-springs-family-medicine/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Jenny Allen , seriously you are still talking about the flu vaccine.
How can this be ? I am questioning your honesty now .
Cochrane says 0.5% efficacy or less . And you know this because I have repeatedly told you this .
You know that themiserol is toxic at nanograms (Dr Frank Engley) because I have told you that too .
So can you pls explain to me how you can still be pro flu vaccine ?
However you keep writing here about the flu vaccine and how you support it so therefore I encourage you to continue to take it . Very fed up with your flu vaccine views .

cia
I am certain that Salk's polio vaccine stopped the polio epidemics in the '50s.

There is no evidence that it did. I don't want to post another lengthily comment because AOA has been very generous to let us do so, so here are links to some very revealing data.
-Pesticides and Polio: A Critique of Scientific Literature:
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/west5a.html
-COMMON (CHEMICAL) POISONS THAT CAUSE POLIO Eleanor McBean
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/polio3.html
-Is The Public Health Law Responsible For The Poliomyelitis Mystery? by Ralph R. Scobey, M.D. Syracuse, N.Y. From Archive Of Pediatrics (May, 1951)
http://www.whale.to/a/scobey1.html
-DDT Poisoning A New Syndrome With Neuropsychiatric Manifestations
http://www.whale.to/a/biskind11.html
What then can cause Polio?
an extract from the book Fear of the Invisible by Janine Roberts
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/roberts4.html

DDT was banned in 1972 however West explains:
-DDT production increased mostly for export out of the US.
DDT began to be replaced with OP pesticides. Phase-out towards 1968
(cancellation of registration of DDT).
The public perception of DDT went from 'safe' before 1951 to 'cannot use around dairy farms', must be properly labelled. Dangers began to become obvious, and farmers woke up re methods of usage.
Note on my site the declining DDT found in lipid testing of US citizens throughout the 1950s.
This means DDT was being consumed less. By not using in milk products, children were not getting DDT as in 1945-1955. 1951 marks the DDT/polio Senate hearings AND the decline of polio.
DDT was just one major organochlorine, note the rise and fall of BHC conforming perfectly with polio.

-Strebel et al 1995, The New England Journal of Medicine, 332(8):500-506.
Reviews more current literature and adds some of its own observations. They point out that intramuscular injection within 30 days of immunization with oral polio vaccine increases the risk of vaccine-induced paralysis. At least 86% of paralysis cases were caused by injection and the higher number of injections correlated to higher frequency of paralysis cases.

“During the Salk vaccine difficulties of the 50’s and 60’s an epidemiologist at New York State health Department concluded that if each infant had to travel two miles to get a shot there would be more disabilities caused by vehicle accidents than what the Salk vaccine itself would have prevented, to say nothing of therapeutic misadventures. (Letter to the New York Times, June 21, 1996, by Dr Herbert Ratner.)

Smoke, Mirrors, and the “Disappearance” Of Polio
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2011/11/17/smoke-mirrors-and-the-disappearance-of-polio/

Polio and lemmings
http://www.whale.to/v/polio_and_lemmings.html

There continues to be no proof that a polio virus exists so until that can be proven-you can't say a vaccine wiped polio out. No disrespect to Dr. Yazbak.

CIA Parker;

We think we know things. We are sure that polio has been put to bed.
Then out of the blue we run across some one, some where that some strange disease has effected them. For several years now there have been some children effected with the 68 or something virus.

But 10 years ago I ran across a little girl in a wheel chair, at a chicken festival and they said out of the blue she caught a entro virus that started out like a cold and then became paralyzed, but they had no name for it. Just a virus. I would have thought polio.

My childhood friend's grand baby just caught foot, mouth hand disease or what ever you call it. It looks pretty much like chicken pox to me.

This winter there was a bunch of 'em over at the University of Kentucky that came down with some kind of -- I forget the name they called it - -- but it was swollen salivary glands - -- you know -- Mumps is what we called them. They went on about it for weeks and then finally one of news casers said - mumps..

And when I was a young mother, and had my kids get the actually DPT - not that acellular but the real bad ass - stuff -- And the community was 96 % vaccinated; At the same church we attended - there was also a little red headed girl, who had caught pertussis when she was only three days old. So she was damaged - kind of awkward on her left side, sweet, and some ways smart - obsessed -- well autism.

Then I have had people in the community that have kids break out in a rash and I swear it looks like measles to me.

@cia parker

The short story for polio in the 1950's is that it peaked with peak DDT usage and declined with reduced DDT usage. Evidence suggests DDT was causal, because (1) DDT exposure can mimic polio symptoms, and (2) DDT affects blood sugar, and low blood glucose makes polio infections much more likely to cause paralysis.

The early polio vaccines had major issues and actually caused many cases. Recent oral polio vaccine campaigns in India have dramatically increased the number of paralyzed people, and this is causal, because the one province that didn't vaccinate did not see any increase. You can start with http://www.naturalnews.com/035588_polio_vaccine_India_paralysis.html

It would be wonderful if you read Dr Humphries' book, Dissolving Illusions, about the history of vaccines. What actually happened is very different from the media/medical myths and propaganda. Then we could have a discussion and be on the same page!

For an overview, you can read http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/08/27/vaccination-a-mythical-history-by-roman-bystrianyk-and-suzanne-humphries-md/

For polio, there is an online excerpt from the book, at http://jeffreydachmd.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Suzanne_humphries_dissolving_illusions_disappearance_polio.pdf

Cia
"the polio vaccine stopped the epidemics."

No it did not. There is absolutely no data that confirms that. Polio is live and kicking under different names. In 1958, the CDC formally adopted the “Best available paralytic poliomyelitis case count” or BAPPCC:
“Cases must be clinically and epidemiologically compatible with poliomyelitis, must have resulted in paralysis, and must have a residual neurological deficit 60 days after onset of initial symptoms. .. the BAPPCC does not include cases of nonparalytic poliomyelitis, of those in which paralysis is more transient. The original purpose of developing these criteria was to omit cases possibly due to enteroviruses other than polioviruses.”

People who showed polio like symptoms that previously would have been diagnosed as Polio were now being diagnosed as: adopted the “Best available paralytic poliomyelitis case count” or BAPPCC: adopted the “Best available paralytic poliomyelitis case count” or BAPPCC: Spinal Apolexy, Inhibitory Palsy, Intermittent Fever, Famine Fever, Worm Fever, Bilious Remittent Fever, Ergotis, ME, Post-Polio Syndrome aka GBS and EV-D68. Coxsackie virus and echo viruses can cause paralytic syndromes that are clinically indistinguishable from paralytic poliomyelitis. Polio is more than paralysis or being encased in an iron lung. The question is always asked what happened to the iron lungs? Doesn't that prove Polio has been eradicated/cured. No, it doesn't. The iron lungs were replaced by oxygen tents and than respirators. So if one contracts one of the above illness and has breathing difficulties-you'll likely to be put on a respirator or the little oxygen nose plugs. Today, If you object to taking the polio vaccine and you get symptoms that are consistent with polio--it is usually called "polio." If you have been vaccinated and you get "polio", it is called meningitis or one of the other names. However today with the lie that the vaccine wiped out polio-the CDC, who makes the call on what an illness is to be designated will not call it polio because that would revel they have been lying for decades.

The polio death rate was decreasing on its own before the vaccine was introduced, and the
there is no credible scientific evidence that the vaccine caused polio to disappear. Cases of polio increased after mass inoculations. US and Europe Polio rates had abated to 47% & 55% respectively before the Salk Vaccine. Europe never purchased the Polio Vaccine and Polio abated completely on its own. Distribution and administration of the Polio vaccine in the US caused Polio cases to rise 700%.

Here's an example of what happened when the vaccine was distributed in the US:
Polio cases rose about 300 to 400% in these 5 places that made the Salk vaccine compulsory by law:
-North Carolina: 78 cases in 1958 before compulsory shots. 313 cases in 1959.
-Connecticut: 45 cases in 1958 before compulsory shots. 123 cases in 1959.
-Tennessee: 119 cases in 1958 before compulsory shots. 386 cases in 1959.
-Ohio: 17 cases in 1958 before compulsory shots. 52 cases in 1959.
-Los Angeles: 89 cases in 1958 before compulsory shots. 190 cases in 1959.

By 1960, the Salk vaccine had proven to be so hazardous and ineffective, that the Journal of the American Medical Association (February 25, 1961) carried an article admitting that, "It is now generally recognized that much of the Salk vaccine used in the U.S. has been worthless."

In his statement submitted to the House of Representatives Sub-Committee on Health and Environment, 94th Congress, Dr. Thomas E. Baynes (Assistant Professor of Law at Nova University Law Center, Fort Lauderdale, FL, under a contract with HEW, CDC, No. 39204) reported to our elected officials that:
" In 1949, a polio vaccine was only a dream.now that dream has turned into a nightmare.

The extent of litigation from vaccine injuries in humans had been minimal until the advent of the Salk and Sabin vaccines. Resultant litigation from vaccine injuries will require a reevaluation of current efforts to immunize vast numbers of people from communicable diseases."

“In about 95 percent of polio cases, infection from the polio virus causes no symptoms or serious effects. In about 5 percent of cases, the polio virus manifests in a mild form (abortive polio) with flu-like symptoms, in a non-paralytic form (aseptic meningitis) or in a severe form called paralytic polio. People who have minor or non-paralytic forms recover completely. …”

I can post more numbers where the Polio vaccine increased the number of Polio cases and the fact that many states rejected using the vaccine-countries outside of the US also rejected also. Providing this info would take several pages. What I discovered years ago is far more interesting:
It has never been proven that a POLIO Virus exists. The gold standard of virology is the image of a virus that has infected a human cell. Jon Rapport goes into a lot of details about this. Janine Roberts touches on it in her two book: Fear of the Invisible and The Vaccine Papers. The best information on this is at this website:
Poliovirus Isolation: No Evidence: http://harvoa.org/polio/ostrom.htm#jump1

Dr. Stefan Lanka explains what the images online of the Polio virus actually are:
The "isolated" polio viruses are artificial particles, generated by suction of an indifferent mass through a very fine filter into a vacuum. Its structure (no characteristic structures) differ clearly from the ones of the "viruses" in the cells. Here the information is essential that a biochemical characterization of those "isolated" viruses, although "isolation" is claimed, has never been published anywhere nor has anybody even claimed such a characterization.

The Polio vaccine was stopped because it was causing Polio:
In 1976, Dr Jonas Salk, creator of the killed-virus vaccine used in the 1950's, testified that the live-virus vaccine (used almost exclusively in the U.S. from the early 1960's to 2000) was the “principal if not sole cause” of all reported polio cases in the U.S. since 1961 (Washington Post,September 24,1976). The virus remains in the throat for one to two weeks and in the feces for up to two months. Thus, vaccine recipients are at risk, and can potentially spread the disease, as long as fecal excretion of the virus continues ( American Academy of Pediatrics, Report of the Committee on Infectious Diseases:1986(Elk Grove Village, Illinois: AAP):284–5.

-In February 1992 the Federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) published an admission that the live-virus vaccine had become the dominant cause of polio in the United States (Strebel PM., et al. Epidemiology of poliomyletis in U.S. n 1992, one decade after the last reported case of indigenous wild virus associated disease, Clinical Infectious Diseases CDC, February 1992:568–79). In fact, according to CDC figures, every case of polio in the U.S. since 1979 was caused by the oral polio vaccine (CDC reference above) Authorities claim the vaccine was responsible for about eight cases of polio every year (Institute of Medicine. An evaluation of poliomyelitis vaccine policy options.IOM Publication 88-04(Washington DC: National Academy of Sciences,1988). However, an independent study that analyzed the government’s own vaccine database during a recent period of less than five years uncovered 13,641 reports of adverse events following use of the oral polio vaccine. These reports included 6,364 emergency room visits and 540 deaths (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), Rockville, MD. & IOS. The Polio vaccine coverup COPV Vaccine Report: Document #14. www.ios(dot)com/~w1066/poliov6.html)
Public outrage at these tragedies became the impetus for removing the oral polio vaccine from immunization schedules (Strebel PM., et al. Epidemiology ofpoliomyletis in U.S. one decade after the last reported case of indigenous wild virus associated disease, Clinical Infectious Diseases CDC, February 1992:568–79)

The Polio Vaccine that is being distributed to Third World countries has created a new strain of Polio and thousands of cases of Non Polio Acute Flaccid Paralysis that are consistent with the doses given. The increase has occurred in India, Africa, Syria, Pakistan and a few other regions of the world.
A Man Shed Live Polio Virus In His Stool For 28 Years
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/09/08/polio-vaccines.aspx

Vaccine did not eradicate or eliminate Polio.

Dear Tim Lundeen & Cherry Misra,
Thank you both very much for your concerns about my health, I appreciate this. Cherry I am so sorry about your problems with mercury amalgams. I've had all mine since around the age of seven or eight, or more than 60 years to put it in perspective. In those days childrens' molar teeth were filled with mercury amalgam as soon as they appeared. Thankfully my later wisdom teeth were impacted and removed whilst still in the gums. Later, my dentist crowned 3 filled teeth, although there is still some amalgam visible beneath the crowns. My remaining molars had some amalgam drilled out and replaced with quartz based fillings. Much nicer and hopefully ameliorating the effects of the mercury. In the UK, quartz fillings are now 'the norm' on the NHS for children, and thank God for that!! I am not yet 'demented' and have other health vulnerabilities which are far more likely to kill me first!! Tim, your flu vax links are useful and appreciated and I hope other 'oldies' will inform themselves about all the issues surrounding these vaccines, but remember, we are all campaigning for INFORMED CHOICES.

Linda1- No need for apologies! I'm very thick skinned about personal criticisms, and long ago made a personal decision NOT to take any internet ad hominem comments to heart, particularly from persons who don't know me from Eve. I think it's very important to publicly debate ALL the issues surrounding vaccines, and respect opposing views.

Justin - Thank you very much for getting Brian Deer to agree to a debate. If he called you a 'crook', then you can be sure you are on the right lines!! He called me a 'belching sow', which I found very funny. What he has said in the past about John Stone is unprintable! Has he created any difficulties about publishing a transcript of the interview? Brian Deer HATES having his own words used against him.

http://www.healthnutnews.com/doctor-vows-no-vaccines-practice-attending-autismone-conference/

http://www.csfmed.net/no-more-vaccines-at-cool-springs-family-medicine/

Linda,
I know that vaccines are not safe. But the polio vaccine stopped the epidemics. In all probability, if Tina had gotten the vaccine, she wouldn't have gotten polio, and she would have been able to live a normal life. If the polio vaccine was associated with causing autism, it would be an easier discussion, but as far as I know, it isn't. Tina was the only one I ever knew who had had polio, because everyone else in our generation had gotten the polio vaccine. There are always a lot of unknowns, but if half the people on my block were dying of something there was a vaccine for, then we'd get the vaccine and worry about everything else at a later time. I think we should educate, but then let people decide for themselves. Not force vaccines, but not compel anyone who wants them to go without them either.

Western Europe (except for the UK) has a MUCH lower rate of autism than we do, something like the three in 10,000 children that we had in the '70s. And they have always given the basic vaccines, but not the large number we do. I think most Third World countries only give the most basic ones, because they can't afford any more, which is good. I think it's risky to say that any number of children crippled by polio or dying of tetanus or polio (or measles, I hate to say it, but it does kill a lot of children in the Third World) is better than having any disabled by vaccines. We're shell shocked as a result of the huge number of vaccines given routinely here, starting the day of birth. It might be good to research attitudes toward vaccines, incidence of autism, and incidence of other kinds of vaccine damage in Sweden or Italy (and I remember Valentino Bocca), to get a feel for the societies in between Pharmageddon in the US and UK, and the Third World.

CIA Parker;

You said: " I think this is going too far. I do not believe that every agency and every public official is corrupt and does nothing but lie about vaccines and disease."

what does it matter when the TOP - Heads of the agency are corrupt and lying and willing to ruin careers and human beings that go - LOL -- as you say too far. Although you did not mean it like that. .

There has been a lot wrong, terrible wrong for a very long time. Back in the 70s when the pertussis vaccine was just horrible (and still it) The head of the CDC did not do a study for 40 years to help decide if there were more damages from the vaccine than the illness.

It is hard to wake up but yeah the CDC and the NIH and IACC, and Tom Insel and Offit and on and on are just that. IT is terrible, it is corrupt, it is evil.

And we have been asleep for a very long time when it comes to that.

Third world countries; WHO came in after the Haitian earthquake and they the workers they brought with them brought with them cholera. They came from countries in which cholera was endemic. These countries do not take the cholera vaccine cause there is no safe cholera vaccine. They all cause celiacs, Dr. Fansano wrote in his article that appeared in the Scientific American Magazine some years back that he had tried to make a cholera vaccine for 20 years and failed, and he was now turning his attention to celiac sprue and gluten sensitivity.

WHO then turned around and vaccinated every Haitian they could get their hands on with the cholera vaccine - knowing what it did.

On top of that; so much money in donations poured into the country and the Haitians had hope. Then after a few months - every one left, help left, they discovered that there was no money to be found -- nothing had gone to help them in any way. It was gone too. Remember The Clinton Foundation? Hmmmmm It was one of the big guys that came down to Haiti setting up accounts to collect those donations.

You keep in mind just how much they now lie to us - they have no shame.

@Cia Parker,

Have you read John Perkins' book, "Confessions Of An Economic Hit Man?" This was one of the first books I read after my awakening re the vaccine issue.

http://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Economic-Hit-John-Perkins/dp/0452287081

First World countries have done more to subvert the abilities of Third World countries to rise above their poverty, etc., than anything else we could possibly say we've done that's positive.

Re diphtheria in Russia:

"The recent Russian epidemic was caused, we were told, by low levels of childhood immunity (WHO, July 1993). But the majority of cases were in adults who had gone through a compulsory vaccination system that mandated 5 injections of diphtheria vaccine. According to the old philosophy, these people should have been immune for life. They now realise that immunity to disease requires 2 things: repeat exposure to antigen, and a healthy, stress-free body."
...
"In the USA, they are at last admitting that there are several other factors involved in the Russian diphtheria epidemic. This is because high level transmission between adults was demonstrated in groups characterized by overcrowding, low hygiene levels, and high contact rates e.g.: the homeless and patients in neuropsychiatric hospitals (Vitek and Wharton). One important factor conducive to increased bacterial transmission was the deficient or lacking public health facilities, including routine access to functioning faucets for hand washing. "
...
"The myth that vaccination is the primary factor that eliminated diphtheria worldwide is highlighted by the evolving situation in Russia (and other countries) today. Graphs of diphtheria from any country show what are called 'epidemic cycles'. The latest Russian cycle is the normal duration for cycles seen pre-vaccination era; so to say that vaccination has stopped diphtheria in Russia is highly debatable. The Lancet (1996) reported that in 1995 the Ukraine had re-vaccinated the entire population and that diphtheria continued unabated. The vaccine was tested and found to be fine."

http://www.whale.to/m/butler.html

The Third World is not going to develop at all if the First World does not assist it. Jared Diamond's book Guns, Germs, and Steel is a wonderful, fascinating book about why the Third World, despite having people just as intelligent as people anywhere else, has failed to develop as much as the First World. I don't think he addressed colonial exploitation as a factor at all. Germs played a prominent role, as did geography: European farm animals can't survive in the tropics, and neither can many food crops of temperate climates. There are a lot of reasons, but it is what it is, and I think it's time to stop blaming Westerners for all of the problems of the developing world. Over-population is a big factor, and, again, that's just the way it is: if people don't use Western birth control, and they do use Western medications and vaccines, then their populations will explode as they have done, and most people will be sickly and malnourished. Is it our fault that we have enabled their populations to increase beyond their ability to sustain them? Yes. Would it have been better to let them cope as they always have and suffer from contagious disease, famine, and untimely and frequent death? I don't know. It goes against the grain for compassionate Westerners to say that or refrain from action, but there is no ready solution for the problem.

Linda, you seem to be saying that you'd be willing to send food, but if hundreds of thousands are dying from diphtheria, tens of thousands from tetanus, tens of thousands are crippled with polio, you wouldn't be willing to sell them the vaccines that would prevent these deaths, because you think that the vaccines would damage many of them. Is that what they would choose? Is that not a form of exploitation? Maybe if they don't control their population numbers, that would be the way to go, but it is a very cruel way. It has always been Nature's way of controlling the population, by killing the weakest from disease and hunger. Is it the best way? I don't know, but I think you should consider whether that is what you are saying you think would be the best course of action.

Everyone agrees that there was a huge diphtheria epidemic in the USSR twenty-five years ago. Are you saying that you think it was not as big as official figures have said it was? Do you have reliable alternative figures supporting your contention that diphtheria is just not a big problem in the world today, are you saying that it never was, or that it just isn't now and wouldn't be under any circumstances? That it wouldn't be even if no one vaxxed for it? The countries in the former USSR mounted a huge campaign to vaccinate everyone: do you think that it had no effect and that the epidemic would have completely disappeared regardless, even though it looks as though it had been the mass vaccination campaigns which stopped the epidemic at that time?

I think this is going too far. I do not believe that every agency and every public official is corrupt and does nothing but lie about vaccines and disease, and I do believe that in some situations and places, vaccine protection from some of the VPDs is a good thing to promote and enable. I would still allow for individual choice. Of course it might have gone the other way. My roommate Tina might have gotten the polio vaccine and maybe had a bad reaction to it (although it is one of the safer vaccines). Instead her parents were afraid of the vaccine, did not give it to her, she got polio and had her legs paralyzed by it for the rest of her life (she's still alive, but she's still crippled). Her parents made the wrong choice, but it's impossible for anyone to never make a wrong choice. All we can do is research and think a lot about the vaccine decision before we make it, which is what Justin and his wife are doing. But I don't think we should be dogmatic about it. That makes us akin to the pro-vaxxers, not allowing for differences in time, place, diseases, vaccines, and many unknown variables. It makes it easier in some ways to take a stand one way or the other, all or nothing, but that is a religious position which I don't think is appropriate to take on this issue.

David,

This is a story out this morning about a baby born in NYC (his mother had been in Honduras, I think) with microcephaly and his mother had tested positive for exposure to Zika. I think it's very likely that the virus has mutated and is now causing microcephaly in some of the women exposed to it in the first trimester. It is also very likely that, like rubella, possibly like polio, exposure to something else, like pesticides or insecticides, is necessary to allow the virus to have devastating effects in many cases. Not certain, but looking increasingly likely.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2016/06/02/doctors-detail-story-of-devastated-mom-of-zika-affected-baby-born-in-ny-area-trying-her-best-to-cope-with-this-emotionally/

I don't think that WHO employees randomly made up figures for the contagious diseases reported all over the world. Even if they are sometimes inflated, it is also true that most of the children in remote villages would never even have seen a doctor, even if they were mortally sick and died of the disease. I think it is beyond dispute that vaccines have saved a lot of lives, in the Third World recently, and in the First World decades ago. Even if many cases of polio paralysis are now diagnosed as something else, which seems unlikely in most cases, as I think the blood of patients undergoing paralysis would be tested for polio antibodies, it is not the same now as it was nearly a hundred years ago. We don't have polio outbreaks causing parental fear and avoidance of swimming pools and beaches, leaving a number of paralyzed children in their wake. Even acknowledging that most people exposed to polio got permanent immunity without ever having symptoms of paralysis, it was still numerically a lot of people paralyzed.

I think rather than saying that all vaccines are bad and useless and have never done any good, it would be better to say that they are potentially disabling or even fatal, and then do a risk/benefit analysis, for each child/adult and each vaccine, bearing in mind that the large number of vaccines given now and the large number frequently given in one visit, are what has caused the most damage. Mercury in any amount should be avoided, of course, and vaccinating young infants. Heather Fraser wrote of a crossover point: formerly few vaccines were given, the diseases were common and devastating, and obvious severe reactions were rare. Now, with a large number of vaccines and doses, and few cases of disability or death from the infectious diseases, we have crossed over to the point at which vaccines are doing more harm than good at the population level. Each parent should know this, research it, and decide what to do. People living in the Third World are in a more difficult situation, and should consider what life for children was like when they themselves were small and what it is like now, and make the vaccine decision, but they really haven't crossed over to the point at which it is clear that vaccines are doing them more harm than good. And in the case of a resurgence of any of the diseases, the case would change in whatever country it occurred. I would not get any more vaccines for me or my daughter now, but if there were an epidemic again in the US of polio or diphtheria, I would probably get the vaxxes for both of us. I actively hope that she gets measles, mumps, and rubella, and would never let her get the vaxxes or the MMR under any circumstances.

Thank you, Jenny, for recounting your family's experience of contagious disease. I'm sorry for the suffering you and they experienced. I said the other day that my neighbor got pertussis as a child, before the vaccine, and her sister got smallpox (in 1928 when it was no longer dangerous). Of course she, I, and her five children all had measles and chickenpox. My great-grandmother had many members of her family die of TB: her mother died of it when she was twelve, her father died of it when she was eighteen, several of her siblings died of it, and the family doctor said she'd better move from Posen, Prussia, to a warmer, drier clime or she was going to die of it too. And she went to Houston shortly after her father died, then to Austin, then to Taylor, Texas. And she died very old, many years later, not of TB. My great-grandfather's mother and four of his siblings all died the same year of spinal meningitis, 1862. My father had malaria in Reserve, Louisiana, when he was twelve, in about 1936. I said the other day how upset my mother was all her life when she thought of a neighbor boy in the '30 who had died of diphtheria, despite every doctor in town being called in to try to save his life. A college roommate had been crippled by polio which she caught when she was three: she told me that her parents had been afraid to get her the vaccine and, as a result, she was crippled by polio. She told me a couple of years ago that she can no longer even use the crutches and braces I knew her to use, but only a wheelchair now. My father remembered how a patient with tetanus came to his father's office (in the yard at Reserve), with horrifying symptoms, and died of it.

This is the other side, the reason that vaccines have become universally given all over the world. There is no easy way to make the decision. Well, in developed countries, it probably is, unvaxxed children are healthier, and we no longer have epidemics of the dangerous diseases. Vaccines are a tool which should be used carefully, but if they are, they can save and improve life rather than degrade it, as is now happening in developed countries which routinely give so many vaccines.

WHO's reporting of disease stats is basically science fiction - as are Doctors Without Borders*, and the Gates genocidal organizations. Why? Simply because all the players involved believe once a vaccine is given (like the polio vaccine) then any type of transient or permanent paralysis HAS TO BE SOMETHING OTHER THAN POLIO, because off course they dogmatically/stupidly believe vaccines are perfect. A perfect example of WHO's idiocy is the fabricated hysterical pandemic of SARS back in 2003/2004 which faded abruptly away when medicos stopped treating suspected cases with extremely toxic, strong doses of antiretrovirals and corticosteroids --POOF! -- SARS mortality evaporated. Frankly, the present Zika hysteria is just as fabricated (as many have also written).

*Doctors Without Brains, in my estimation.

@ Cia Parker "While all vaccines can disable and kill, I think one problem is that most of us haven't seen the ravages of some of the diseases. I know a lot of people get around that problem by denying that any vaccine has ever prevented any disease in anyone. I don't think that is true. "

Approaching my 8th decade, I can certainly verify the dangers of some diseases vaccinated against. My husband caught diptheria and hepatitis and survived. My late brother in law was badly deformed by polio. In those days patients could spend years in an 'iron lung'. My mother spent 2 years in a sanatarium after ontracting Tuberculosis. These diseases were greatly feared by parents and there's no question, at the time they were killers. These days, with more modern treatments and interventions, these diseases are no longer the death sentences they once were.

Myself and siblings all caught Whooping Cough, (Pertussis) and my infant memory is of us all walking about 'whooping'! I don't think my parents bothered about calling out a doctor, although he visited when we all got German Measles(Rubella). I believe doctors only got involved with notifiable diseases, and at the time I don't think Pertussis was on the list, but both measles were. I contracted the other measles during a time when my mother was in the sanatorium and I was 'farmed out' to a relative. I have no memory of a doctor being involved.

Needless to say we all survived all those childhood diseases, and 'mother nature' later ensured my breast fed babies were protected during their first year of life. Parents then had mumps and german measles parties, to ensure their children got these diseases in infancy when they are almost always benign. I never met or heard of any child who had been damaged by measles, although parents were aware of adult mumps damage and Rubella damage during early pregnancy, hence the parties.

Linda 1 was very critical of me on an AoA threat for submitting to an annual influenza vax. Yes, I am aware it's not very effective, contains mercury, and the original H1N1 vaccine Squalene adjuvent caused widespread problems. But you see, I am also aware of the dangers of contracting flu at my age, and have made an informed choice. It's MY body after all. If I get dementia from the mercury, I have enough assets not to be a burden on society (one of the criticisms levelled at me), and anyway, as soon as my second set of molars came through, they were filled with mercury amlgem, which I still have, along with most of the molars!

That said, I am vehemently opposed to injecting children with mercury via vaccines.

Justin: Thank you very much for what you are doing with this series, and welcome to this wonderful community. I’ll never forget the birth of my daughter, the most amazing thing I’ve ever witnessed, and so I understand much of what animates you in regard to the care of yours. Dan, also thanks; you’re totally cool. My daughter was born just months after the passage of the NCVIA, so was old enough to escape much of the onslaught of the mercury-laden mayhem in infancy that followed. She shows no signs of injury, but all vaccinations produce injury. It is a testament to the amazing resilience of the human body that many children can largely recover from the assault that pharma, the AAP, and the CDC perpetrates against them. Like Linda 1, Laura Hayes, and others, I am completely opposed to vaccination, considering it to be crude, contaminated, 18th century quackery that has done great harm and little good throughout its history. Part of me would ban them, but the greater part of me refuses to tell other people how to live their lives. This is what I would do: First, immediate implementation of a mandatory surveillance system for vaccine injury, with mandatory training of all physicians and nurses in what to look for and how to report them, with loss of license as penalty for failing to report. Public service announcements on TV and in newspapers concerning vaccine injury, and what the legal options are for parents. Immediate overturning of the NCVIA, restoring full liability to manufacturers for vaccine injury. Mandating that parents be fully informed of all vaccine side effects and disease incidence before physicians and nurses are allowed to vaccinate their children. Disallowing anyone outside a medical setting and anyone without a medical or nursing license from giving vaccinations. Remove the CDC from everything having to do with vaccine safety and implementation, including the now mandatory VAERS. Remove from the FDA approval for vaccines. Set up an independent agency, governed by a board which includes a significant number of parents without ties to industry, government, or academia to take over these functions. These measures will ultimately lead to the demise of vaccination, for it is a thoroughly bankrupt, corrupt, and dangerous enterprise which is destroying our nation one child at a time, and wouldn’t survive the glaring light of truth.

@cia parker

Re "From 1990 through 1998, >157,000 cases and 5000 deaths were reported by the countries of the former Soviet Union, representing >80% of diphtheria cases reported worldwide. Three-quarters of the cases were reported from the Russian Federation. This was the largest diphtheria epidemic since the 1950s, the beginning of the era of widespread diphtheria immunization."

So this worst-case scenario is about 550 deaths per year, in a poor, effectively third-world, country. Compare this with the millions of kids injured every year from vaccines, and the thousands of deaths every year from vaccine-induced-SIDS and other vaccine trauma, and tell me which is better. Further, the mortality rates from ALL infectious diseases were falling dramatically (exponentially) prior to vaccine introduction in first-world countries, and would have fallen to effectively zero without the vaccines -- just as scarlet fever has disappeared without a vaccine.

We don't need vaccines for good public health. What we need is to reduce the toxic load for our kids, starting with not vaccinating them.

Justin,
Any chance you could invite Senator Pan to a debate with someone who supports vaccine choice?

Linda,

I know that about half of American children have been severely damaged by vaccines (counting asthma and allergies). I said that for those in the developed world, vaccines are clearly more dangerous than the vaccines (as a group). But I wouldn't prevent a parent from choosing the vaccines: if I prevented him from getting his child the measles vaccine, for instance, even though I'm certain that in the vast majority of cases, measles is a relatively mild, beneficial disease, some children are going to die of measles if they don't get the vaccine. It's not my call to make, I can only tell people what I have learned and what has happened to my family because of vaccines.

The tetanus vaccine is very effective. I think a lot of those on our side feel the need to deny the efficacy of the vaccines to make it easier to tell people they shouldn't get them. The polio vaccine was also clearly effective in stopping the polio epidemics. I know and agree that 90% of people got polio subclinically and got permanent immunity, that another 10% just got flulike symptoms and then recovered. Only a fraction of one percent went on to be crippled by polio. But that was still a lot of people numerically, including my roommate Tina. So I wouldn't try to ban vaccines, again, I'd educate and let parents make the choice.

Diphtheria could easily come back: it came back in the ex-Soviet Union twenty-five years ago and killed a number of people. They think it was because of the poverty, hunger, and cold in the wake of the destruction of an empire, but it still meant a lot of suffering and death. My mother had a neighbor in the '30s, a little boy who died of diphtheria: every doctor in town was called in to try to save him, but he died anyway, choked by a diphtheric membrane across his throat. For the rest of her life she choked up whenever she mentioned him. I don't think the vaccine was 100% effective: no vaccine is, but the WHO chart for Pakistan shows that in 1980 many thousands of children got diphtheria, and probably at least half died of it. And now there's almost no diphtheria in Pakistan. You could say it died out here naturally, and that the vaccine played little or no role, and I'd have to say that we don't have enough information to say. But it was still going strong in the Third World until the vaccines were introduced, as late as 1980, and then it disappeared. I'm sure it's true that it, like all vaccines, has caused a lot of vaccine damage. But again, we don't have enough information. The disaster took off when so many vaccines were introduced. It might well be that if children were only routinely given the DT after two years old, and, if, polio came back here, the polio series, that vaccine damage would be minimal. The polio vaccine seems to be the safest of any of them, although the tetanus vaccine (without mercury) is said to be very safe. The DT is thought to be less reactive than just the T. We would have to see what happened. I would not give the pertussis or measles vaccines, in the developed world, the diseases just aren't very dangerous for any but the youngest newborns, who can be protected in other ways.

I have put up sources in the past supporting the contention that the diphtheria, tetanus, and polio vaccines were effective. I think the next step is to say what you would do if one or more of them came back and a lot of people died or were crippled from them. Would you permit parents to choose the vaccines? If children only got those two or three vaccines, there would be very little vaccine damage, and potentially a lot of lives saved.

In 1940, the incidence of Hib meningitis was very low, but had quadrupled by 1968, probably because of the DPT introduced in 1948: the pertussis component depresses immune function for at least a month after the shot. I really don't know if the D and T do. So it might well be that if children didn't get the DPT, that the incidence of Hib meningitis would be very low. Again, we need more information.

But it's also true that most Third World children are malnourished and die easily from any infection. What would you do about them? It would be better for the herd just to let them get natural measles etc., but worse for the weak, malnourished individuals. Would you just let Nature take its course with them, survival of the fittest? I really don't have a strong opinion on that, I guess I think it's better to do what is better for the herd, but then I think about the poor, sickly children, and take the other side. I think all the paralysis in vaxxed children in India is probably because they were overvaxxed, some of them have gotten the polio vaccine in pulse vaccine campaigns ten or more times by the time they're five.

Wouldn't you have to give every country the best and most accurate information available and let them decide on their vaccination policy (respecting parental choice)? Malnourished children die in great numbers of meningitis, pertussis, rotavirus, measles, mumps, chickenpox, tetanus, and the flu, unlike children in the developed world.

@cia parker

Consider that any vaccine can trigger serious food allergies and/or autoimmune illness, and that we have no way to predict who will be affected, and tat these outcomes are always much more serious than the vaccine-targeted illness. Just this is enough justification to ban vaccines.

Then please read vaccinepapers.org from beginning to end. I hope we will agree that all vaccines containing aluminum adjuvant are extremely dangerous. I trust we already agree that all vaccines containing mercury as thimerosal, even in trace amounts, are extremely dangerous.

Then consider multiple vaccines, such as the MMR. The evidence is very clear that these combinations are much more dangerous than single vaccines. Infanrix (6-in-one) kills infants every year all by itself.

Then consider vaccine contamination. There is no third-party testing, and manufacturer testing appears to be extremely limited. Contamination with retrovirus will have unknown long-term consequences. Contamination with mycoplasma could be a major driver for chronic ear infections and autism. Contamination with other toxins can cause catastrophic results.

Then consider age of first vaccination. There is good evidence that this causes infant immune systems become dysregulated, and the vaccines are much more dangerous, if vaccination is done before the age of 3 years. If our goal is to "do no harm", we should ban vaccines for under-3s regardless of anything else.

To think that some vaccines might be helpful is misguided.

In the interview Brian Deer acknowledges that some children who became autistic might not have if they hadn't gotten a particular vaccine. But on the other hand, Deer says that parents are lying, greedy and stupid, and the bulk of parents are just jumping on the bandwagon (presumably because they are lying, greedy, stupid in some combination). Deer just knows that the bulk of these parents are wrong. How can he know?

It's interesting that Deer brings up slipperiness. Dr. David Lewis's Science for Sale has a great illustration of that trait in Deer, to wit: Synagro, a manufacturer of sewage sludge fertilizer, published false allegations against Dr. Lewis which it was forced to retract. When Dr. Lewis incurred Deer's ire, Deer republished the withdrawn allegations on his website, which drew the attention of Dr. Lewis's attorney. In response to that attorney, Deer wrote: "....However, as I say, the links are dead. I have records showing that they were dead a long time ago, if not always. If you look at the source code carefully, you will see that the 'f' has been omitted from 'pdf'. Thus, the links wouldn't have worked."

What Deer didn't apparently know was that Dr. Lewis's attorney had been archiving Deer's website for some time and could prove that the "f" had been removed shortly before Deer sent that email. Doesn't that tell you all you need to know about Brian Deer?

(The "carefully" is a nice cervine touch.)

@ Dan, Ronald and Justin

Dan posted to Ronald's previous comment:

"must you be so querulous"

Ronald responded:

Yes! There is a substantial difference between an interview series whose main objective is to understand vaccine safety better (Justin's purported objective), and an interview series whose main objective is to hear from different people associated with the vaccine-autism linkage controversy. The latter appears to be Justin's de facto objective. If he were to state that up front, than I have no issues with the people he is interviewing.

Apparently .. Ronald admits to being "querulous".. because he believes there is a substantial difference between a "series of interviews" .. whose main objective .. (JUSTIN'S) .. is to "understand vaccine safety issues better" ... and .. "an interview series .. (RONALD'S supposed "de facto objective) .. whose main objective is to "hear from different people associated with the vaccine-autism linkage controversy".

With all due respect Ronald .. maybe I am misconstruing your comments .. are YOU really suggesting
someone .. (JUSTIN) .. admittedly interested in "understanding vaccine safety" .. should limit his "investigation" .. only to those who have NO "differing opinions" on the link between vaccines and autism?

Ronald .. my friend .. we should WELCOME any opportunity to "hear" the opinions of the "pro-vaxxers" .. because .. THEIR opinions defy both .. science and common sense.

In any event .. Justin responded:

"Honestly what i would love to hear personally, and I'd be happy to mediate, would be a conversation between someone on the anti-vax/pro-safe fax side (like a James Lyons-Weiler) and someone on the pro-vax side (like a Matt Carey) who understand or at least can speak on the science of it all better than I or Brian Deer can... but when I proposed to Matt on twitter he didn't seem interested in that (which seems to say something in itself). But I would volunteer to try to help conduct that conversation, if there were any takers."

Justin .. my friend .. you are going to find what we at AoA have learned decades ago .. NO ONE .. your example of Matt Carey being your own introduction to the "inexplicable phenomenon" where the PRO-VAX side absolutely REFUSES to participate in "speaking to the (vaccine) science of it all?

You will NEVER have a "pro-vax expert" agree to participate .. in ANY "conversation" .. whereby YOU can "mediate" the concerns of someone from the "anti-vax safety" side .. who is present .. with the opportunity to immediately respond to the well-rehearsed .. carefully constructed .. "pro vaccine talking points". NEVER.

Why THEIR reluctance .. because the "science of it all" .. cannot stand scrutiny by ANYONE who has taken the time and made the effort to learn what a SHAM it all is.

Welcome to AoA.

Cia,
First let me say that the health of our nation has never been worse Our mortality and morbidity and fetal mortality are very high and it is largely because of vaccination. More than 50% of our children have at least one horrible chronic condition requiring medication. Second, most adults are not immune to diphtheria and tetanus. We don't know if diphtheria would come back or if it died out naturally. Most of our population are no longer farmers working around horses, so I doubt that tetanus is as much of a concern as it once was. But even so, Dr. Humphries explains that the vaccine can't protect against tetanus anyway. She explains the mechanism of infection and says that it is impossible for the vaccine to prevent it (she also explains how to treat it if it happens and she doesn't minimize how terrible tetanus is). Polio is another big question. There are many more cases of autism and other horrible chronic diseases today, including respiratory diseases and paralysis with other names, than there ever were of polio. Polio at one time was a mild infection that most didn't have a problem with. The polio vaccine is known to have infected the US population with at least one carcinogenic simian virus. Do we have any reason to believe that the vaccine is free of infectious or other contaminants now? I think not. We have tiny infants on psych drugs for crying out loud. We have a brand spanking new childhood cancer industry opening it's doors on every street corner nationwide (right next door to the ubiquitous infertility clinics that weren't there 40 years ago). Our schools now have to have a supply of Epi-pens for the first time in our history.

Hib was a new vaccine in the 1990s and I can't remember exactly what it empowered, but the use of that vaccine caused other organisms to become more virulent. Same with pneumococcal. Gardasil is a disgusting scam that has killed and maimed. What else? Oh, how could I forget measles, mumps and rubella. No good reason for a mumps vaccine if children get the mumps in childhood. Vaccine doesn't work anyway. As you well know, Merck is currently in court re that. Vaccine strain of measles is found in the gut of sick, autistic children. Not acceptable. Pregnant women vaccinated in childhood cannot protect their infants that are too young to be vaccinated. We don't know how long the measles vaccine lasts, if it provides any protection to recipients at all. That's just the beginning. Rubella is so mild that there is no reason to inject anyone with it and risk arthritis and the other potential side effects. If a young girl doesn't have it by child bearing age, then maybe she can deliberately be given a mild case without being injected, and quarantined (at home) for the time that she would be infectious. Pertussis vaccine, whether the old DPT or the newer iterations, is deadly. Period. And it causes a carrier state. Cocooning my *ss. And, I know you know that pertussis vaccine causes asthma. And African studies show a significantly higher mortality rate among girls who received the DPT than those who didn't. Does that apply to our population? Who knows! Our scientists are busy doing gazing studies. The safety of vaccines is not to be questioned.

If we stopped vaccination altogether, there would be kinks to be worked out, but the bottom line, for me, is the Golden Rule:

If I see my neighbor walking into the oven thinking they're going to take a shower, do I let them? If they claim to *know* it's an oven, they have a *right* to go in?

It just struck me that I don't know why I said the pneumococcal meningitis was rare. It was not, and it could be very dangerous and even kill a lot of babies and small children. It's meningococcal meningitis that has always been rare. I think, though, that breastfeeding prevents all kinds of meningitis the mother was ever exposed to, and for many years after weaning, vitamin C treats it, and all the meningitis germs are common in the environment and in everyone's respiratory tract, without ever causing problems. I wouldn't let my child take any of the meningitis vaccines, and the vaccines are very dangerous, but I wouldn't prevent parents who chose them from getting them for their children.

While all vaccines can disable and kill, I think one problem is that most of us haven't seen the ravages of some of the diseases. I know a lot of people get around that problem by denying that any vaccine has ever prevented any disease in anyone. I don't think that is true. If you look at the WHO figures in the link I put up this morning, it's clear that vaccines have prevented millions of cases of often very lethal diseases in the Third World. Well-nourished people in the First World with access to modern hospitals if the need arises are in a different category. For us the vaccines are clearly more dangerous than the diseases, but if the more dangerous diseases came back, I think we'd have to reconsider our position, at least regarding vaccination for the most dangerous ones. Of course I'd leave it up to the parents' choice, but surely no one would want to see tens of thousands of children a year die from diphtheria when there was a vaccine which would have prevented these deaths, and many parents who would have chosen it. I think there's a danger of making anti-vaccinism into a religion as well as the pro-vaccine religion.

@ Twyla .. like you .. I wholeheartedly agree that Justin deserves our great appreciation for "taking on this controversial topic and enduring the slings and arrows from both sides". Amen to that.

With great respect .. I would mildly disagree with your comment that Justin "does not have an iron in the fire" .. only because .. as I understand it .. Justin has just become a father for the first time .. and .. therefore .. JUSTIN HAS AN IRON IN THE FIRE .. HIS MOST PRECIOUS CHILD.

I DO AGREE with the rest of that particular comment .. where you so accurately stated a particular scenario that causes so much of my own ANGER .. which is .. when others .. such as .. Foxnews Greg Gutfeld and Dina Perino .. to name just TWO of many, many more .. who have NO IRON IN THIS PARTICULAR (VACCINE) FIRE .. (THEIR OWN CHILDREN NOW FULLY GROWN OR NOT YET HAVING GRANDCHILDREN) .. RANTING ABOUT THE "STUPIDITY" OF TODAY'S PARENTS WHO ARE RELUCTANT TO SUBMIT THEIR PRECIOUS CHILDREN TO THE GAUNTLET OF TODAY'S APPROVED AND RECOMMENDED ...INSANE ANY COMMON SENSE STANDARDS .. VACCINE SCHEDULE.

Predictably .. these two .. and .. legions of despicable "pundits" just like them ... having "no skin in the game themselves" .. routinely .. arrogantly .. smear TODAY'S parents .. (JUSTIN) .. with the broad brush of being "anti-science" .. comparing them to holocaust or global warming "deniers" .. self-righteously wrapping themselves in the specious claim a "consensus of science" has decided .. for all time .. vaccines are "safe and effective".

I applaud ANYONE .. (Justin I am hoping you continue to read our comments) .. willing to STAND AND DELIVER .. against the predictable SLINGS AND ARROWS that are sure to follow ANYONE WHO DARES QUESTION THE SAFETY AND EFFICIENCY OF VACCINES.

i think "crooked" is taken as a nickname.

Thanks for all the feedback as always... Brian has since called me a "crook" on twitter, for whatever that's worth.

Ronald, i must admit my choices of interviews weren't entirely carefully thought through. To explain how they came about- it started with wanting to talk to Del (and Doctor Wakefield) after seeing the movie, then to Brian Deer as a counterpoint... Next (coming soon) will be a conversation with Mary Holland and Lou Conte to hear about the vaccine court and from parents of vac-injured kids, and finally one with Dr. Seneff because I hadn't talked to a scientist.

I'm not claiming that's a perfect list. I would gladly talk to more people- i just worry 4 is already a lot for the audience. Honestly what i would love to hear personally, and I'd be happy to mediate, would be a conversation between someone on the anti-vax/pro-safe fax side (like a James Lyons-Weiler) and someone on the pro-vax side (like a Matt Carey) who understand or at least can speak on the science of it all better than I or Brian Deer can... but when I proposed to Matt on twitter he didn't seem interested in that (which seems to say something in itself). But I would volunteer to try to help conduct that conversation, if there were any takers.

And of course I'm happy in general to talk to any doctors/scientists at any point, even if it doesn't turn into a fully produced episode (these things take quite a bit of time).

In any event, thank you all for listening and for the links.
Justin

Dan,

"must you be so querulous"

Yes! There is a substantial difference between an interview series whose main objective is to understand vaccine safety better (Justin's purported objective), and an interview series whose main objective is to hear from different people associated with the vaccine-autism linkage controversy. The latter appears to be Justin's de facto objective. If he were to state that up front, than I have no issues with the people he is interviewing.

ronald, must you be so querulous? give the guy a break. brian deer is a perfectly good place to start if you want to understand the world of the vaccine safety debate. deer demolished wakefield, which demolished the last vestiges of mainstream resistance to vaccine zealotry. yet deer is a fraud and he falls apart under examination. vaccine safety belongs under the cheap suit theory of investigative journalism -- pull on any thread and the whole thing unravels. let a hundred flowers bloom, to quote chairman mao. -- dan

Justin,
If it is any comfort, I never thought you were a plant. Figured you were like me , many years ago when I first started looking into vaccines, sure that the definitive science that showed vaccines were safe was out there; that I could read a few studies and be home in time for tea. Didn't work out like that .
So; a good place to start,
What the federal government and CDC recognize as vaccine injuries.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/D/injury-table.pdf

So if someone tells you, vaccines are safe and "can't" cause brain injury, death etc, you know they have either done zero research, or they are lying to you, neither of which in my opinion makes them very credible.

Interesting to see the limits on injuries the government is willing to recognize as a table injury; for some injuries, if they occur on day 5 post vaccine, they count; day 4 and you are out of luck...

I also wonder how many vaccine injuries get missed; how many people, for example, know that arthritis can be a side effect of the MMR?

Here is a case of a child who survived all her vaccines up until the second MMR. Her parents successfully introduced a law in New Jersey allowing blood draw proof of immunity as an alternative to a second MMR shot.
http://hopefromholly.com/blog

Don't know whether you prefer case histories, peer reviewed studies, or both?

Have a new baby girl coming into our family soon. Mom is pro vaccine. Just hoping the baby will be fine. At least, statistically, girls are less likely to get autism.

Justin,
I don't know if this was already suggested to you, but I want you to get a copy of the book, _The Virus and the Vaccine_. https://www.amazon.com/Virus-Vaccine-Contaminated-Cancers-Government/dp/0312342721/ref=mt_paperback?_encoding=UTF8&me=

By two journalists, it is the story of SV40 in the polio vaccine. In case you heard of this, it wasn't just in the 1950s-60s either. The book tells how Lederle laboratories produced potentially contaminated oral polio vaccines into the 1990s. The massive corruption that you are seeing with the MMR didn't start in the past ten years. There is a long sordid history. BTW, the CDC had a page about SV40, admitting to its past presence in polio vaccines, but saying that there was no evidence that the contaminant caused harm. I saw the page when it was up. Sometime later, it disappeared, although there are folks who saved it.

This book is required reading for you, ok?

There will be a test!
(kidding, but please get the book)

There are many good books that you could and should read, but I had to tell you about this one.

Dan,
I apologize if I came across as criticizing AOA's position. This is just where I am at this point. I usually aim for what is right rather than what may be possible. That's just me. I am not good at comprising on some things. I also have little patience for labeling GMOs and the other too numerous to count toxins in the food supply. The policy is that if it is on the label, it is a person's right to choose. What good is a label to a person who is illiterate? Or a person with an IQ of 80? For that matter, in order to safely navigate a supermarket in 2016, one could use a PhD degree in nutrition. I also have no patience for black boxes on killer pharmaceuticals, as though the black box makes the fact that the drug is extremely dangerous, ok. What good is the black box to the patient lying in a hospital bed having the drug delivered in a little paper cup or syringe (sans label and black box) that was ordered by a doctor without the patient's input? And even when people do see the black box, are they equipped to understand what it means and to evaluate their options?

We are a society that allows people to harm themselves for corporate (and government) good. Marijuana? Not allowed, even to treat illness in some places, even though in some cases it is proven safer and more effective than pharmaceutical alternatives. But, once pot is set up as profitable to the state, then and only then is it added to the list of *choices* that people can make.

Vaccines, in my mind, should not be a choice. They have been proven to be dangerous and destructive beyond what can be considered acceptable. I understand if you, as a journalist, do not agree or join my perspective. It's just where I am. I have no tolerance for the great lie anymore.

David Burd, Justin wrote ""Frankly, I would PREFER for that truth to be that vaccines are safe, AND never cause autism…" He did not site, ""Frankly, I would PREFER for that truth to be that vaccines are safe, i.e. never cause autism…"

The word "and" implies that safety issues in addition to autism are being discussed.

Justin; I majored in microbiology.

Microbiology books told me that all vaccines had the potential for harm, but my professors - especially the ones that had one foot over in the nursing department - said differently.

I worshipped my professors -- My sin.

So I understand, I really do. Then we had that scary diphtheria that killed teenagers and that scary polio every summer -- And when your wife if carrying a child inside her womb you worry about that parasite that cats carry - and you worry about is her immune system good enough not to contract rubella and is it good enough to give immunity to her new born for a few months so it won't get whooping cough.

Vaccines seems great.
Then as time goes on - many, numerous things happen and they are not great but horrible.

It is hard. But I tell you one thing- the boosters and giving too many vaccines equal to - the worse out comes of the disease.

So we turn to statistics - how often does the worse out comes come along from a disease - vs - how often does the worse out come or even minor outcomes come along because of vaccines. ( I mentioned minor cause asthma and an auto immune diseases is in there too- and are minor serious)

I want grandchildren until I think of the vaccine stuff and I say - Oh well -
I am sorry you are in this position.

Dorit Reiss; Said she was pro-vaccine safety -- Don't she know that will ruin her career as a pharma troll! LOL!

Anti-vaxxer is, of course, a label which is used not only against people who are completely against vaccination, but people who question any part of it - ironically, on the basis his own cautious steps Justin has now become an "anti-vaxxer" (so, welcome Justin). Part of the vaccine lobby game is to demand that you accept everything and on time or you are against them, and this of course is purely their fault: they have made it totalitarian. A further instrument is the multi-vaccination - which was a key reason for the attack on Wakefield back in 1998 - because the option of picking and choosing and spacing was just not what they wanted. Involved is not only the ptb ensuring compliance but total intellectual subordination of the citizen to whatever they decide. And in practical terms there is also now a severe limits to selection even where they have not made it compulsory - another thing which may also be frustrating Justin as he seeks to find a moderate course.

Incidentally, I was amused/outraged to read Dorit Reiss purporting to be pro-vaccine safety the other day. If that was the case she would be listening respectfully to parents who report adverse consequences rather than automatically trashing them - what a joke!

Dan,
The more I learn, the more I think that vaccination is a form of extreme abuse that should be outlawed. Extreme sounding viewpoint, I know. But if we know that SIDS started with the DPT, and if we know that genetic expression is up and down regulated by vaccination, and if we know that in Africa, mortality is higher among baby girls vaccinated with DPT, just a few of many, many examples of the harm done, why should we as a society allow any child to take that potentially fatal bullet, I mean, syringe? Should it be a parent's choice to harm their child? Is it really choice when parents who don't know what you or I know or who are adequately fooled or confused by the medical industrial complex *choose* to vaccinate? I don't think so. If it's dangerous, it's dangerous and shouldn't be done.

I understand being tolerant, but I can no longer keep quiet about the obvious, that so many are not able to see through the smoke and mirrors. Vaccines do much, much, much more harm than good.

just to say i'm really glad to have justin on board. we are a big tent and the voice of someone with a young child and a lot of questions is exactly the kind of person we want to include in the conversation. just to make the big tent point, we also embrace those who are firmly against vaccination for any number of reasons. that's the point of informed consent and choice. -- dan

Justin -

Just to add that among the many accusations levelled at Wakefield, one such claim - that he was 'in it for the money' - has documented, easily accessed evidence to the contrary. A memorandum from the Royal Free dated 20th May 1997 states that 'Mr Wakefield is unhappy with the fact that the school has not formally accepted the research funding and has asked that the funds be returned to the solicitors.' It continues, and makes plainly evident that Wakefield was never going to and never received a cent.

Here's a link to the document (you'll need to scroll down a bit): https://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com

Incidentally, the site itself - CHS - is definitely credible, and worth a good look. For one, it was quoted as a source by Dr Helen Rataczak in a peer reviewed paper (Journal of Immunotoxicology), much to the chagrin of certain pro-vax extremists.

Have to say Justin I think you did really well all considering. I love Deer's "he's slippery like that" part, coming from someone who slides every day to work. Ironic, the conspiratorial undertones of Deer, that despite Wakefield declaring (in the Lancet) that more tests need to be done, he already 'implies' a connection etc. I would have thought such cautioned implications not merely commonplace in such contexts, but under the circumstances, absolutely understandable and even morally imperative.

Despite that Deer clearly has much experience in covering his slimy tracks - and all those onboard with his brand of 'logic' - he ultimately comes across as a man, well, who has much experience in covering his slimy tracks, and not much besides.