Battle for California - Dare to Hope?
Vaccines Covered In Republican Presidential Debate - Exposes Candidates’ Concern Over “Too Many Too Soon”

Vaccine Safety Was a Topic at Republican Presidential Debate

Ben Carson Meme

By Anne Dachel

TWO DOCTORS LAST NIGHT RAISED CONCERNS ABOUT TOO MANY TOO SOON AND A PARENT'S RIGHT CHOOSE---IT'S EASY TO RIDICULE TRUMP FOR HIS POSITION, BUT THIS IS A  WHOLE DIFFERENT ARGUMENT.

WOW!  MORE NEEDS TO BE DISCUSSED.....

The vaccine controversy got the media's attention last evening during the Republican presidential debate.   The question was raised by moderator Jake Tapper: "Dr. Carson, Donald Trump has publicly and repeatedly linked childhood vaccines to autism, which as you know, the medical community adamantly disputes.  You're a pediatric neuro-surgeon, should Mr. Trump stop saying this?"

Dr. Ben Carson: "Well let me put it this way, there have been numerous studies and they have not demonstrated that there is any correlation between vaccinations and autism.  Vaccines are very important--certain ones, ones that would prevent death of crippling.  There are others--there's a multitude of vaccines that probably don't fit into that category, and there should be some discretion in those cases.  You know, a lot of this is pushed by big government."

Donald Trump: "Autism has become an epidemic.  25 years ago, 35 years ago, you look at the statistics, not even close.  It has gotten totally out of control.  I am totally in favor of vaccines, but I want smaller doses over a longer period of time.  Because you take a baby in--and I've seen it. . .  I had my children taken care of over a long period of time, over a two or three year period of time--same exact amount.

"You take this little, beautiful baby and you pump--I mean it looks like it's meant for a horse, not for a child,  We've had so many instances, people who work for me.  Just the other day, two years old, two and a half years old, the child, the beautiful child went to have the vaccine and came back an a week later, got a tremendous fever, got very very sick, now is autistic.  I only say--I'm in favor of vaccines, do them over a longer period of time--same amount, just in little sections."

Carson: "The fact of the matter is, we have extremely well documented proof that there no autism associated with vaccinations.  But it is true that we are probably giving way too many in too short a period of time. 

Dr. Rand Paul: "One of the greatest medical discoveries of all time were the vaccines, particularly for small pox. . . .  I’m all for vaccines, but I'm also for freedom.  I'm also a little concerned about how they're bunched up.  My kids had all their vaccines, and even if the science doesn't say bunching them up is a problem, I ought to have the right to spread my vaccines out at the very least. 

All three speakers endorsed vaccination, yet they have their concerns over so many vaccines over such a short period of time.  They all sounded very reasonable.  Certainly there are issues here to be explored, especially concerning the safety studies and a parent's right to choose. 

The mainstream media doesn't see it that way.  There cannot be questions raised about vaccines--EVER.  News reports were quick to attack the messengers, while ignoring the message.

Salon.com: Donald Trump and Ben Carson embrace vaccine trutherism by Scott Eric Kaufman

Trump said he is “totally in favor of vaccines,” then launched into a story about the child of a friend who received “the vaccine” and suffered a very high fever a week later. When the fever abated, Trump said, her parents discovered that “now she’s autistic.”

He embraced the vaccination truther myth that it’s not the vaccines themselves — which have been repeatedly proven to be safe — that cause autism, but the schedule on which they’re dosed out.

Washington Post: The GOP's dangerous 'debate' on vaccines and autism, by Michael E. Miller

Carson’s tepid response drew immediate criticism from doctors and pediatricians across the country.

“No Ben Carson,” Baltimore pediatrician Scott Krugman wrote on Twitter. “The answer is ‘yes’ Donald Trump is wrong. Vaccines don’t cause autism. What are you talking about? . . .

“Well, let me put it this way,” he began hesitantly. “There has — there have been numerous studies, and they have not demonstrated that there is any correlation between vaccinations and autism.”

Carson’s tepid response drew immediate criticism from doctors and pediatricians across the country.

“No Ben Carson,” Baltimore pediatrician Scott Krugman wrote on Twitter. “The answer is ‘yes’ Donald Trump is wrong. Vaccines don’t cause autism. What are you talking about?”

Yet, on an issue that could prove prickly for Republicans in the general election, Carson’s comment was actually the most forceful of the night.

Trump essentially doubled down on his past statements by again suggesting that vaccines, or concentrations of them, cause autism.

“Autism has become an epidemic,” he warned. “Twenty-five years ago, 35 years ago, you look at the statistics, not even close. It has gotten totally out of control.”

Rand Paul, like Carson, a doctor, also equivocated on the issue.

“I’m all for vaccines,” he said. “But I’m also for freedom.”

The exchange, particularly Trump’s comments, drew a sharp response from autism groups.

“Despite a wealth of scientific evidence debunking any link between autism and vaccinations, tonight’s Republican primary debate featured prominent commentary from a leading candidate repeating inaccurate information suggesting a link,” the Autistic Self Advocacy Network said in a statement. “Autism is not caused by vaccines — and Autistic Americans deserve better than a political rhetoric that suggests that we would be better off dead than disabled.”

Daily Beast: Vaccine Truther Trump Peddles Anti-Science Conspiracies ... by Russell Saunders and Betsy Woodruff

The frontrunner was allowed to spout debunked theories linking vaccines to autism, and ‘bunching up’ shots, before an audience of millions of CNN debate viewers—and went unchallenged.

Heads up: Donald Trump is still a vaccine truther.

At the CNN debate Wednesday night, the GOP frontrunner broadcasted anti-science vaccine conspiracy nonsense—unchallenged by moderators or fellow contenders—to an audience of millions.  

. . . Trump has long peddled goofy, debunked theories about a causal link between vaccination and autism. As far back as 2012, he suggested the practice of giving numerous vaccines to healthy babies is “monstrous.”

CNN: Debate coach: Trump's disgraceful autism claim by Todd Graham

Donald Trump thinks vaccines cause autism.

This topic, after two and a half hours of the debate, was by far the most significant, and undoubtedly the most disappointing moment of the evening.

I must begin with this: Vaccines do not cause autism. There is no basis in science at all for this. The journal piece that began this nonsense years ago was retracted. All similar studies have been thoroughly discredited.

The following medical groups agree that there is no link between vaccines and autism: The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the National Institutes of Health, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the World Health Organization and the Institute of Medicine. Whether alone or grouped together (such as Measles Mumps and Rubella), vaccines don't cause autism. The medical community is clear.

New York Daily News: Donald Trump claims during 2016 GOP debate that vaccinations are linked to autism by Erin Durkin and Adam Edelman

Donald Trump added another item to his "anti-" list Wednesday: Vaccinations.

During a bizarre rant at the GOP 2016 debate, the bombastic billionaire suggested that vaccines can contribute to autism in children.

Forbes: Ben Carson Doesn't Get It: All Our Vaccines Prevent Death by Tara Haelle

We already knew Donald Trump didn’t understand medicine. He once again parroted the tired falsehood that autism and vaccines have anything to do with each other. They don’t. He added insult to injury by also repeating the tired falsehood that “autism has become an epidemic.” Not only is that untrue, it’s offensive to the millions of autistic individuals living rich lives and the families and friends who love them. But sweeping inaccurate statements and being offensive are nothing new for Trump.

. . . Perhaps it’s too much to ask for presidential candidates to understand even basic medical concepts, such as vaccines. But at the very least, we should expect the two men who have practiced medicine to understand them. If they don’t understand the subject matter they’ve made careers out of, what confidence does that offer for their leadership of a nation?

And for what I wish were the last time. Vaccines don’t cause autism. They just don’t.

Fox News: GOP debate fact check: Trump claims on vaccines, Florida casinos don't check out

THE FACTS: Media researchers have debunked claims that vaccines given to children can lead to autism and developmental disorders.

I think its about time we expanded from the tired question, "Do vaccines cause autism."  The response is ALWAYS THE SAME: "Studies show no link," case closed.

It's time for some rational discussion here.  There are a number of questions Jake Tapper and reporters Kaufman Miller, Saunders, Woodruff, Graham and Haelle need to be asking.  Actually there are dozens of concerns that should be brought up, but I'll limit myself to these:

*Is it at all concerning that the U.S. vaccine schedule has more than tripled since 1983 without a single study on the cumulative effect of so many shots, so soon on the health of a child? 

*Should we be asking why multiple vaccines given in one doctor visit, yet they're only studied individually?

*Why do health officials continue to deny a link between vaccines and autism, while ignoring the concession by experts at HHS in the case of Hannah Poling and the discovery of 83 cases of vaccine-induced autism compensated by the Federal Court of Claims?

*Why has there never been a comparision study of fully vaccinated and never vaccinated children?  Officials adamantly refuse at the same time they're complaining about the number of children who aren't vaccinated.  Let's see if never-vaccinated kids have the same health issues, including autism, as fully vaccinated ones.

*Why do we allow the vaccine makers to do their own safety studies?  Why is the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention allowed to approve and recommend the vaccine schedule and also be in charge of safety?  How come hundreds of employees at the CDC have conflict of interest waivers because of their direct financial ties to the vaccine industry?

*Why have we never looked at the children who were healthy and suddenly and inexplicably regressed into autism?  (Similar to the story Donald Trump related.)  This was the recommendation of the late Dr. Bernadine Healy, former head of NIH, on CBS News in 2008, yet it's never been done.

*Why can't anyone show us a comparable rate of autism among adults?  The rate is always based on studies of eight year olds, not eighty year olds.  If it's all just "better diagnosing" and "diagnostic substitution," then we should be able to go to adult group homes and nursing homes and find residents who are non-verbal or who have echolalia, in diapers, flapping their hands, and having periodic meltdowns.  I want to see lots of adults with classic autism, whose symptoms are easily recognized.  We're constantly told the autistic adults are out there.  Why can't anyone find them?

*When will autism become a priority in America?  The disorder with no known cause, prevention or cure is merely a curiosity to health officials who have never even used the word "crisis" when talking about autism.  The current rate of one in every 68 children is based on kids born in 2002.  We have no idea how bad things might be today.

*Finally, what are we going to do about the future for an entire generation of young adults with autism aging out of school with no place to go?  This disaster will be dumped on the taxpayers in individual states who will have to support this disabled generation for the rest of their lives.  (And what does it tell us that parents can't find programs for autistic adult children?)

As I said, I have a lot more questions, but I'd be happy to see these talked about.  CNN, Fox, New York Daily News, and all the rest in mainstream media are so quick to attack these candidates for even talking about vaccines.  What does that tell us about the power of the pharmaceutical industry over our news?

Comments

kapoore

I am very relieved this is coming out and it's so disturbing that the media is quick to label Trump a truther. No one apparently bothered to look up in the Congressional Record what is going on with the CDC whistleblower. I don't think it's just money. I guess I am a conspiracy theorist, although I think the "choice" movement has to not allow itself to get generally labeled in that way and clearly that is the attempt with the word "truther." So.. I'm paranoid that this really is a hidden agenda of some kind to vaccinate everyone. For example, this is creepy to me that the number 277 as in SB 277 is considered a super-super-super prime number, that is, a prime of a prime of a prime, almost as if some people got together and said we need a special number to launch the forced vaccination of children agenda. And the number 792 as in SB 792 are the rounded off digits used often to give the diameter of the earth in miles, 7, 920 miles, as is someone is thinking this adult vaccination bill needs a global stretching number, like the diameter of the earth. . This health 2020 or whatever it is, the simultaneous appearance of all these laws over such a nothing outbreak, and the grim determination of our California representatives....people who once seemed like normals. So probably in reality we are the normal people and the vaccine pushers are the conspiracy crazies but they call us that because they are hoping it sticks and that is all they have.

Linda1

Former Governor Jesse Ventura, interviewing RFK Jr. on his show, "Off the Grid":

Ventura at 17:30:

"My daughter was harmed by the DPT shot and today is a handicapped person because of it."

http://www.robertfkennedyjr.com/video/off_the_grid.html

Barry

The so-called fact checkers from CNN, FOX and most of the mainstream media get 70% of their advertising revenue from pharmaceutical companies. In the interest of full disclosure, these companies should have announced the exact percentage before their fact checkers asserted the "facts" on the safety of vaccines. I'm waiting for a presidential candidate, or perhaps several in order to protect them from physical harm, to call out the corrupt CDC and media corporations that parrot the lies spouted by Big Pharma. I'm also waiting for a candidate to declare that the growth of autism constitutes a public health emergency that requires much more serious attention by the federal government. The U.S. continues to waste billions on the wrong strategies to combat this horrible disease.

Linda1

What if that question wasn't written by Pharma? What if some upstart journalist or team at CNN somehow got that question past the censors? I find it hard to believe that Pharma and fiends would leave themselves vulnerable to unscripted vaccine talk in front of 23 million + viewers - especially not knowing what would come out of Trump's mouth. Or maybe Pharma and fiends are just losing it. Wouldn't it have been safer for them to not mention vaccines? Especially at the end of the debate. People remember the last thing that they heard.

Shannon Epstein

Miracles happen...let's keep up the heat.

Bob Moffitt

Watched "The Five" on Foxnews .. and .. listened to Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld .. spewing the same old b.s. .. the "science" says vaccines are miracles and Dr. Paul, Dr. Carson and Donald Trump should be ashamed of themselves for saying "wacko anti-vax" parents are right to be concerned about the number and timing the vaccines are given.

Amazing how these two individuals .. who I believe do not have any children themselves .. demand parents vaccinate THEIR children .. because THEY think it is the right thing to do.

Dana Perino is always talking about her dog "Jasper" as if the dog were her child instead of her pet .. and .. I'll bet she has no idea that veterinarians stopped using thimerosal in Jasper's vaccines BEFORE pediatricians stopped injecting thimerosal into children .. including my non-verbal 16 year old grandson .. now 1 of the 300,000 to 400,000 children under 21 diagnosed autistic in this country.

Indeed, flu vaccines recommended for pregnant women still contain thimerosal .. but .. Jasper's vaccines do not.

People that do not have any "skin in the game" .. such as .. a grandchild or toddler under 5 years of age .. ought to keep their own opinions on what vaccines a PARENT should give to their precious children.

I guarantee NEITHER of these two idiots are "up to date" on THEIR OWN VACCINES .. but ... the day .. 2020 .. is coming fast when THEY will have to suffer the same "unavoidable risk" that toddlers today face.

Rich

If Trump is elected President we might actually finally have a shot at stopping the vaccine autism madness.

Denise Anderstrom Douglass

The two doctors who are running for president are to be commended for publicly saying what they did -- they both honored their oaths as physicians. Donald Trump should be commended for going first! The man has broad shoulders. Now if someone would just say the words "CDC Whistleblower" on live tv!

Sun~Rose

Unlike Obama or Ben Carson's sudden back pedal, Trump spoke up loud and clear: He knows a child who regressed after vaccinations. And good for Rand Paul too, who has said what he said before. Trump's the star though.

God bless him!

And p.s. Anyone here seen the youtube video of Bill Gates laughing as he talks about using vaccination for population control

Fact check for Wolf and CNN

The rats better start changing their tune and jump the vaccine ship. Their days are numbered and we the people will not forget who spoke out and who covered up, got it Sanjay, Offit, Carson, Paul, Insel, Boyle...?
Fact check for you there Wolf Blitzer and CNN: you obviously omitted Dr. Carson saying many doctors think there are too many. We know your games. We NOTICED what you did there. Also, Sanjay, flu mist is a risk to other children in terms of spreading.
Sanjay you are nothing but a lying flunky.

Benedetta

Jonathan I have not got my form letter back yet. But I will let you know what it says when I do.

I will admit that I did go in this past year to see Mitch McConnell but he did not show up so I wrote down what I was most concerned about.

To my surprise I got an invite to another dinner this past Sept. I did not go - cause I have one of the five in the hospital.

Maybe?

Jonathan Rose

Perhaps I'm reading too much significance into it, but this afternoon, just hours after the debate, I received an email from my Congressman, Rodney Frelinghuysen. He's a quintessential establishment Republican, a down-the-line pharma supporter, because in this district you can't throw a rock without hitting a pharma executive. I'm sent him e-mails urging him to investigate William Thompson's allegations, and normally I'm either ignored or told (ever so politely) to screw myself.

But in this e-mail response, sent after a delay of several weeks, the tone was markedly different. I quote:

"Thank you for contacting me to express your concern regarding the Center for Disease Control's (CDC) research on links between autism and vaccines. I appreciate having the benefit of your views.

"Clearly, the health and safety of our children and our families is of paramount importance. In this regard, we must make sure that vaccines are safe and take steps to ensure public confidence in America's vaccine program.

"As you may know, Congressman Bill Posey (FL) introduced H.R. 1636, the Vaccine Safety Study Act. This bill seeks to direct the National Institutes of Health to conduct a comprehensive study comparing total health outcomes, in vaccinated and unvaccinated populations in the United States, to determine whether exposure to vaccines or vaccine components is associated with autism spectrum disorders, chronic conditions, or other neurological conditions.

"Most recently, H.R. 1636 was referred to the Committee on Energy and Commerce. While I do not serve on this committee, I will be sure to remember your concern should this legislation come before the full House of Representatives for a vote.

"Again, thank you for contacting me."

Believe me, that's quite a change! It may be that the debate has scared the living daylights out of them, and they want to be on the right side when the beans are spilled. Has anyone else noticed that kind of flipping among their elected representatives?

Dan Burns

Wow.

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