Dr. Toni Bark & Flu Shot Efficacy, Logic
Dachel Media Update: Intervention for Autistic Inmate

Measles Update

SharylBy Anne Dachel

Now it seems that CBS, like most of the mainstream media, will continue to cover up the truth about vaccines.  I spent quite a while this afternoon preparing the comments below. CBS News was once a great defender of the truth, back when Sharyl Attkisson was there. I tried to remind them of that fact. Sadly, I was not allowed to post my comments on CBS.

Measles warning in Pennsylvania

The Pennsylvania Department of Health is warning the public about potential exposure to a case of measles in the Philadelphia area. As CBS Philly reported, a person believed to have the measles may have exposed others to the illness at two locations: a CVS pharmacy in Wayne, Pennsylvania, on Dec. 28, and the Please Touch Museum in Philadelphia on Dec. 29. .A resurgence in cases of measles sickened hundreds of people across the U.S. in recent months. Outbreaks in Southern California, Ohio, and New York were among the worst in decades. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said many cases could be traced back to people avoiding the vaccine for "philosophical" reasons, or because they had heard claims - which have since been discredited - linking vaccines and autism.

 The following are the comments I tried to post on CBS.  I was not even allowed to sign in, regardless of the email I used or the social media site.  Other comments are up on the stories--decidely PRO-VACCINE.


Why does the media fail to give us the full story on both vaccine efficacy and on safety concerns?

CBS News: "The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said many cases could be traced back to people avoiding the vaccine for "philosophical" reasons, or because they had heard claims - which have since been discredited - linking vaccines and autism."


Does anyone at CBS News ever check their archives? The public has had over 10 years of vaccines and autism coverage from Sharyl Attkisson at CBS.  Her exemplary investigative reporting made it clear that there are serious concerns about the validity of vaccine safety claims.

CBS News, Sept 2010, Family to Receive $1.5M+ in First-Ever Vaccine-Autism Court Award

CBS News, Oct 2009, Controversy Over Vaccine Research

CBS News, Aug 2008, Eye To Eye: Vaccines & Autism

CBS News, July 2008, How Independent Are Vaccine Defenders?

CBS News, March 2008, Vaccine Case: An Exception Or A Precedent?

CBS News, June 2004, Mercury Link To Autism?

Why is CBS allowing the CDC to say that there is no link between their vaccines and autism? This is the agency that aproves, recommends and vigorously promotes vaccines. It should also matter to CBS that hundreds of individuals at the agency have conflict of interest waivers because of their direct financial ties to the vaccine industry.  The last head of the CDC, Dr. Julie Gerberding, a long time denier of any link, is now head of the vaccine division at Merck.  The claim of the link between vaccines and autism has been discredited by a number of official studies-all shown to be connected to the vaccine makers.

Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism

Sharyl Attkisson, an Emmy-Award winning journalist at CBS was responsible for a decade of coverage on vaccines.  Earlier this year Attkisson resigned from CBS, citing the fact that the network wouldn't allow to to report on the stories she had investigated.

Sharyl Attkisson - Stonewalled

CDC: "Possibility" that vaccines rarely trigger autism (AUDIO) | Sharyl Attkisson

Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism

In April and May 2014, the National Post (Financial Post) in Canada gave us the articles by award-winning journalist Lawrence Solomon that questioned the efficacy of the measles vaccine, featuring a top U.S. vaccine expert, Dr. Gregory Poland, from the Mayo Clinic.

These recent stories from the National Post, make it clear that Dr. Poland believes the measles vaccine doesn't work in many cases. He says that it's vaccinated individuals who are getting sick.

April 16, 2014, Lawrence Solomon: The untold story of measles

May 1, 2014, Lawrence Solomon: Vaccines can't prevent measles outbreaks May 8, 2014, Lawrence Solomon: One-size-suits-all vaccines will soon be replaced by safer, more effective ones

Why didn't a single network or newspaper in the U.S. cover this?

Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism

Here's what informed parents know about the safety of vaccines:

.Neither the doctor nor the vaccine maker has any liability for vaccine damage - they've been protected by federal law.  Instead victims have to appeal to a federal program where they're up against government lawyers defending the government's vaccine schedule, using government money.  Few people ever receive compensation.  Those that have report it took between seven and fourteen years.

.The current vaccine schedule has more than tripled since 1983 without a single study on the cumulative effect.

.Officials refuse to call for the one study that could settle the debate over vaccine safety immediately.  There has never been a simple study comparing the health outcomes of fully-vaccinated and never-vaccinated children.  If never-vaccinated kids also have the same health problems that vaccinated ones have-namely, autism, learning problems, asthma, diabetes, severe allergies, seizure disorder, sleep disorders-the proof of no would be there for all to see.  (And with so many parents now too scared to vaccinate, the study group is out there.)  Unless and until this study is done, questions of safety remain unanswered.

.In 2008 it was announced that medical experts at Health and Human Services had conceded the vaccine injury case of Hannah Poling, the young Georgia girl who regressed into autism immediately following routine vaccinations.

.In 2011 it was revealed that the federal government compensated 83 cases of vaccine injuries that included autism over the last two decades, all the while officials were adamant that there is no link.


Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism

I wrote this piece about a young man named Brandon Guppy, age 20, This is the face of vaccine injury.

Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism

The U.S. has the most aggressive vaccination program in the world and some of the sickest children.  Our kids are plagued by autism, learning problems, seizure disorder, sleep disorders, asthma, allergies, and bowel disease. This is a link to a list of approximately 150 Independent scientists and physicians who have serious concerns about vaccine safety.  There are over 200 independent studies done by well-credentialed experts that raise serious concerns about vaccine side effects shown on The Greater Good website.

Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism

The short trailer to the movie The Greater Good, makes it clear that there are experts on both sides and a lot of serious questions that need to be asked. The medical community and health officials promote vaccines as the greatest achievement in modern medicine yet there is growing fear over vaccine side effects.

See the National Vaccine Information Center.

See more at AnneDachel.com.



Jeannette Bishop

I'm a little overwhelmed thinking of all the vaccination changes that were enacted in the U.S. during the time of the 1989-1991 outbreak: add another dose of MMR, reformulate the MMR quadrupling mumps antigen, hib vaccine was added at the same time as this outbreak (was that just coincidence or was there some connection between reducing natural infections of hib in infant populations and increased susceptibility to measles? I'll note again this MMWR report http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00017268.htm which states that in infants age 16-59 months vaccination coverage "as recommended" was only 15% this was also considering DTP, and OPV, but didn't mention hib vaccine. Are they avoiding bringing up the hib vaccine or is this an example of difficulty in making all hands aware of what the other hands are doing, or...?), and of course we get hepB for all infants starting in 1991, ECBT forms pushing for near universal compliance with all of this, ... and maybe there are more changes I'm not aware of, I don't know when greater reliance on adjuvants begins to weigh in for instance...

So, when we have some evidence via this measles outbreak which possibly appears to have mostly impacted those too young to be vaccinated for measles (referencing a medscape.com graph that seems to be only fully viewable in a search engine), that we might need to evaluate the real value of at least some vaccines, we get instead a vaccine schedule that seems to have switched from being somewhat cautious to one that thinks it's best to just keep the waters as choppy and muddy as possible.

I have to go back to the hib vaccine and MMR. We had the population getting one dose of a live viral vaccine that we are not sure is not behind however many measles outbreaks we experience and then, on top of mercury containing DPT (mostly...I don't know when mercury free versions came into use--which makes me wonder if there was an insider concern about that ingredient for some time), in 1989 we add the mercury containing hib vaccine series. Did the introduction of hib (or more thimersal, etc) in a way make the MMR more dangerous?


CBS was involved in the original hyping of the Measles vaccine, as is boasted about in this NCBI article,
"Telling the world about measles.
A case history in Government information".
Except the article title should be "Selling" the world.

The article describes the strategic planning and timing of information release, and the now familiar use of Third World statistics to fear monger acceptance.

"Because many people regard measles as basically a disease of childhood, to be endured and often welcomed as a guarantee of lifetime immunity, it was necessary to stress that measles and its consequences are far from trivial. With more than 400 deaths annually (out of 4 million plus infections) in the United States and aftereffects ranging from serious mental crippling to deafness and other defects, it is a major health hazard. Another point was the much more serious health threat that measles poses in the developing nations.in Africa and Latin America, where childhood mortality from the disease ranges from 25 to 50 percent. To hammer home this point, we cited the Public Health Service accomplishment in Upper Volta, West Africa, where experimental use of the vaccine, provided
by Merck Sharp & Dohme, resulted in more than 700,000 vaccinations, saving the lives of many thousands of children."



Contrary to common thought, the Measles vaccine is capable of breakthrough infections, yet this is never investigated because everyone knows this is "impossible". So whenever a case develops all kinds of epidemiological gymnastics are performed to link the outbreak to the unvaccinated.

"In this report we describe a case of measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine-associated measles illness that was positive by both PCR and IgM, five weeks after administration of the MMR vaccine. Based on our literature review, we believe this is the first such case report which has implications for both public health follow-up of measles cases and vaccine safety surveillance."

Jenny Allan

Terrific comment John Stone.
I hope you don't mind me repeating this paragraph since it pulls many threads together:-

"And plainly what happened in Swansea was being hyped for political ends - we had a three month wave of attacks on Andrew "Emmanuel Goldstein" Wakefield across the media, the BBC calling for vaccination to made compulsory backed by Paul Offit etc. This is about manipulation and it leaves truth well behind. Normally speaking I might have trusted the final figures given for confirmed measles cases but it is hard to know in this instance because so much public face depended on it."

Yes-I was just one person who attacked the BBC's outrageous coverage of the Swansea measles outbreak. I did this as a licence paying UK citizen, making written complaints through the BBC's official channels. Their responses seemed to blame the press/media information put out by the Welsh Health Spokespersons, but this was a very 'lame' excuse made by a public funded broadcaster, meant to be independent of UK Government interference and corporate interests.

MMR vaccine manufacturer GSK is a British based company, which has recently been fined huge amounts in the US and now China for bribery and corruption, involving the sale and promotion of their pharmaceuticals. Around another six countries are complaining about GSK's corrupt operations. In the UK? -never a cheep. Their CEO Sir Andrew Witty was even recently knighted by The Queen.

Most of the Swansea measles media hype took place in March and April 2013. ChildHealthSafety challenged the numbers of announced measles cases stated to be confirmed, pointing out only EIGHT laboratory confirmed measles cases were published since the start of 2013. In May 2013, CHS also 'demanded' the publication of the April confirmed cases, but the Welsh response stated this could take up to three months. In fact it took more than four months for the final figures to be published, along with a 'terse' statement the Welsh 'measles outbreak' was over. Like John, I was a tad suspicious to see more than 200 'confirmed' cases in April 2013, and around 50 in May.

Vincent and Eindeker have actually done us all a favour, opening up the official figures to scrutiny and debate. Eindeker's links to the England and Wales 2013-14 confirmed measles cases, also confirmed my suspicion that a far larger percentage of suspected measles cases (30%) were getting confirmed in April 2013. In 2014 the rate was less than 2%. Suspicious? I'll say!! How much pressure was put on lab technicians to produce large numbers of 'confirmed cases' in April and May 2013?

Researching Vincent's US outbreak, 1989-91, produced a refreshing logical analysis of what was stated to be both vaccine failure (when only one dose was administered)and failure to vaccinate all infants due to costs etc. Having tracked down the causes, the authorities knew how to correct things. These were pre-Wakefield scandal days!!

John Stone

Part of the problem in Wales seems to have been that rule about not announcing notifications as confirmed cases was not operative as apparently in the rest United Kingdom -I was told this by an informed source but I don't have chapter and verse. On top of this the BBC's egregious Fergus Walsh just happened to mention that there had been outbreaks in Northern England due to "bad luck" ie vaccine failure or people getting measles in spite of being fully vaccinated. About announcing notifications as cases I have often quoted the warning of government analyst Roger Buttery, Daily Telegraph 8 January 1997:

"London (Europe Today). – "97.5% of the times that British doctors diagnose measles they are wrong", says a publication of the Public Health Laboratory service. The mistake being made by National Health GP's was found when the services tested the saliva of more than 12,000 children who had been diagnosed as having measles. Roger Buttery, an adviser on transmissible diseases at the Cambridge and Huntingdon Health Department, said that the majority of doctors "say they can recognize measles a mile off, but we now know that this illness occurs only in 2.5% of the cases." Buttery says that doctors classify as measles, many other viruses that also cause spots. He found eight different viruses during the survey in East Anglia. One of them, parvovirus, gives symptoms similar to German measles. The reason for the high rate of error puzzled Buttery. "Doctors are neither vague nor careless," he said. The solution is to defer the diagnosis until more detailed information can be got. There are 5,000 to 6,000 cases of measles registered each year in the United Kingdom, but these findings now call most of them into doubt."

And plainly what happened in Swansea was being hyped for political ends - we had a three month wave of attacks on Andrew "Emmanuel Goldstein" Wakefield across the media, the BBC calling for vaccination to made compulsory backed by Paul Offit etc. This is about manipulation and it leaves truth well behind. Normally speaking I might have trusted the final figures given for confirmed measles cases but it is hard to know in this instance because so much public face depended on it.

As to Vincent and Eindeker, the real problem that we have here is that when these things go wrong it is simply denied. People who want to talk about it are shut up, shut out or shut down. In the UK, for example, most years now we have no payments from the VDPU (Vaccine Damage Payment Unit) despite tens of millions of vaccines administed. Even based on the manufacturers statistics you would expect there to be dozens but it is simply hit and run. In the UK it depends on the discretion of an agency, in the US you have to go to a pseudo court the functions of which are not open to scrutiny and where the grounds for compensation are generally sealed thus avoiding precedent for other cases.

The reality is that if it goes wrong you will not be hailed as someone sacrificing the good of their family to society you will become the object of malicious comment, innuendo etc.


The MMR alone causes a febrile seizure resulting in an emergency room admission 1/3500 doses. Adding a Chicken Pox shot to an MMR visit, per ACIP recommendation, increases the febrile seizure rate to 1/2500. Using the MMRV Pro Quad 4 in 1 combo shot increases the febrile seizure rate again to 1/1250.
On top of the 1/1250 MMRV recipients who end up in the emergency room, another 250 or so end up back at the Doctor's office for an outpatient fever visit. Then a greater number suffer an illness in excess of 100. For all of these children, they suffer a course of illness equivalent or worse than an uncomplicated case of rubella, mumps, or even measles. For many children today the most serious illnesses they experience are vaccine reactions, not naturally acquired infections.



If you obtained this information from a government source or from the media it's their nature to leave out specifics. Like the 3 young ladies that died recently. Their deaths were reported as dying from the Flu but doing some digging into the local new sources it was discovered they'd all had the flu shot so the shot is complicit in their deaths.

A. Measles does kill people:
There have been 9 measles deaths in the US since the year 2000. Source: National Vital Statics Reports

The deaths that you cited in your comment could you please provide source and links to any citations, articles, death reports etc. Do you have any information on the individuals who died what their health status was?
On the individual who contracted brain encephalitis from measles. Do you know if they had the measles vaccine? Do you know that brain encephalitis can occur in a child years after being vaccinated. It has been documented.

B. Vaccination does prevent deaths & measles outbreaks??
Please provide your source that confirms this statement. Please make sure that it is an independent source and has no connections to government or big pharma. Please provide an independent study that confirms that the vaccine has in any way stopped measles outbreaks anywhere in the world.

What more evidence do you need??
A double blind independent placebo based controlled study on the safety and effectiveness of any vaccine?

"Of these, 21 877 people were admitted to hospital and 21 died (case fatality 0.69 deaths/1000 reported cases);
Could you provide specific information. Example-ages of the individuals who died. I'm asking this because in the pertussis outbreak in 2010 much was made about the infants who died from pertussis without mentioning that the babies were too young to receive the pertussis vaccine. Now that the study by Tod Merkel of the FDA states this in an article to the Washington Post & NYT that vaccinated people are contagious:

“The research suggests that while the vaccine may keep people from getting sick, it doesn’t prevent them from spreading whooping cough — also known as pertussis — to others.

‘It could explain the increase in pertussis that we’re seeing in the US,’ said one of the researchers, Tod Merkel of the Food and Drug Administration…

“When you’re newly vaccinated, you are an asymptomatic carrier, which is good for you, but not for the population.”

The cocooning strategy that the CDC/Vaccine industry implemented at the time consisted of all family members taking the pertussis vaccine and since the vaccine sheds live viruses it is a great possibility that the babies contracted pertussis from family members. In that outbreak where 10 infants died, 91% of the infected were vaccinated. So I'm wondering about the specifics about the 21 who died. Specifics are important.

“For centuries the measles virus has maintained a remarkably stable ecological relationship with man. The clinical disease is a characteristic syndrome of notable constancy and only moderate severity. Complications are infrequent, and, with adequate medical care, fatality is rare. Susceptibility to the disease after the waning of maternal immunity is universal; immunity following recovery is solid and lifelong in duration.”

Why is the above paragraph important? It was written in 1967 (several years after the introduction of the first measles vaccine), by D.J Spencer co-author of a paper that stated this. Dr David J Spencer was the longest serving director of CDC, a highly qualified and respected professional. So much so the CDC now have a museum dedicated to him. It was also a time before big money kicked in for vaccine makers. Before the vaccine makers obtained blanket immunity.

The best way to avoid measles is to maintain a healthy diet, take Vitamin A, Vitamin D3, B12 combo, Vitamin C, Omegas, Selenium & Magnesium. If exposed to measles or any other virus take Colloidal Silver and if you can find a facility that gives IV Vitamin C-go for it. My cousin is a non-vaccinating MD and she give IV Vitamin C on a regular basis to those who refuse to vaccinate. She swears by it.


Lawrence Solomon: The untold story of measles:
Several decades following the vaccine’s introduction, the measles death rate rose, largely because the vaccine made adults, expectant mothers and infants more vulnerable

Early in the last century, measles killed millions of people a year. Then, bit by bit in countries of the developed world, the death rate dropped, by the 1960s by 98% or more. In the U.K., it dropped by an astounding 99.96%. And then, the measles vaccine entered the market.

After the vaccine’s introduction, the measles death rate continued to drop into the 1970s. Many scientists credit the continued decline entirely to the vaccine. Other scientists believe the vaccine played a minor role, if that, noting that most infectious diseases similarly petered out during the 20th century, including some, like scarlet fever, for which vaccines were never developed.

The credit for the century-long decline, scientists generally agree, goes to improved nutrition and improved health care, side effects of the West’s growing affluence. In the U.S., the death rate dropped by about 98%, from about 10 per 100,000 population a century ago to one fifth of one person by 1963, the year measles vaccines made their American debut. Both before and after vaccination started, victims tended to be poor. http://business.financialpost.com/2014/04/16/lawrence-solomon-the-untold-story-of-measles/

Lawrence Solomon: Vaccines can’t prevent measles outbreaks:
Measles in highly immunized societies occurs primarily among those previously immunized:
....Dr. Gregory Poland, one of the world’s most admired, most advanced thinkers in the field of vaccinology.
....The measles vaccine has failed, he explained two years ago in a prescient paper, “The re-emergence of measles in developed countries.” In that paper, he warned that due to factors that most haven’t noticed, measles has come back to be a serious public health threat. Thankfully, in that paper and elsewhere he also spelled out in no-nonsense fashion what now needs to be done. http://business.financialpost.com/2014/05/01/lawrence-solomon-vaccines-cant-prevent-measles-outbreaks/

-Outbreaks are occurring in highly vaccinated populations. Why Is China Having Measles Outbreaks When 99% Are Vaccinated?
China has one of the most vaccination compliant populations in the world. In fact, measles vaccine is mandatory. So why have they had over 700 measles outbreaks from 2009 and 2012 alone? http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/why-china-having-measles-outbreaks-when-99-are-vaccinated-2
-1985, Texas, USA:New England Journal of Medicine in 1987, conclude that outbreaks of measles can occur in secondary schools, even when more than 99 percent of the students have been vaccinated and more than 95 percent are immune.
-1985, Montana, USA:the American Journal of Epidemiology titled, "A persistent outbreak of measles despite appropriate prevention and control measures," School records indicated that 98.7% of students were appropriately vaccinated, leading the researchers to conclude:
-1988, Colorado, USA:American Journal of Public Health in 1991, "early 1988 an outbreak of 84 measles cases occurred at a college in Colorado in which over 98 percent of students had documentation of adequate measles immunity.
-NY Measles outbreak: 26 cases total. 14 adults ad 12 children. Patient Zero is a 22 year old VACCINATED young lady who contracted measles in 2011. Outbreak of Measles Among Persons With Prior Evidence of Immunity, New York City, 2011 Oxford Journal.
-Wales Measles Outbreak 2012-13: 90-95 per cent of the people who contracted measles were vaccinated.
-Major Measles Epidemic in Quebec Despite 99% Vaccination Coverage: Can J Public health. 1991 May-Jun;82(3):189-90

I see two things happening here: Viral Vaccine Shedding and/or viral transmission. Meaning the vaccinated are contagious and are infecting others.


Hard to know what is accurate. Large public schools brought in mass epidemic of the child hood diseases. Example every one got the two measle in the second grade.

But my most beloved Grandmother and Grandfather living in isolated communities in the mountains did not get the measles untill they were 40.

At 40.
They were fine.
All came out fine.
That is about all we have to go on -- what happens to others around us.

I know right now that all of our grown children are in trouble. SO many have some kind of mental problems which has lead to drug problems.

That is what is in my face.

What is causing all these mental problems rapidly rising mood disorders???

Vaccines of course.
Better be talking about it - cause it is bad, and only going to get worse.

Jenny Allan

Since Dr Ianelli has not responded to my request for information about the US measles outbreaks 1989-91, I searched this myself:-
"Because >95% of children entering school had received a dose of measles vaccine, preventing the school-aged outbreaks required a second dose of vaccine. Waning immunity with increasing time since vaccination was not a significant cause of vaccine failure.[28] Instead, the major problem was primary vaccine failure-the failure to respond to the first dose. Questions were raised about whether measles was so contagious that it could persist among the 2% to 5% of persons who failed to mount an initial immune response to a single dose.[29] There was much debate, particularly among persons in public health, of the need for a second dose because of the cost of implementation. Additionally, the first dose was not being well implemented, particularly in preschool children, many of whom did not receive their vaccine until just before school entry. Perhaps measles outbreaks would not occur if higher first-dose coverage were achieved in young children. Before going to the expense of adding a second dose to the schedule, some felt more resources should be devoted to improving first-dose coverage and seeing if that was enough to terminate measles transmission."

It would seem from these outbreaks, the initial MMR/measles vaccinations were insufficient to ensure measles immunity in this population. This is why we are all getting the 'two dose' MMR vaccine mantra from health sources and press/media coverage.

Certainly, the Welsh measles 2013 outbreak figures show a large percentage of confirmed measles cases in the 1-4 years age group, a cohort stated to be >95% MMR vaccinated, although at this age most will have received only one MMR vaccine dose. This seems to confirm vaccine failure accounting for a significant proportion of those UK measles outbreak cases during 2012-13, although virtually all the UK measles outbreaks were blamed on 'unvaccinated' children, and of course, Dr Wakefield was again dragged out as a suitable person to blame!

cia parker

Good point about mothers who had measles themselves protecting their babies from measles. Gareth Colter, the young man who died of measles in the Swansea outbreak, would not have had his severe asthma if he had not gotten the pertussis vaccine (and that probably contributed to his death), and if he had had measles as a boy then he would not have gotten and died of measles as an adult.


Rubella, or German measles, is not dangerous to anyone except fetuses in the first months of development. It may or may not cause a mild rash and swelling of the lymph nodes in the neck. The best way to handle that problem would be to test all girls in fifth grade to see if they had developed immunity, and deliberately give them the disease at the end of the school year if they hadn't, telling them to stay home and away from pregnant women until they had recovered from the very mild disease and had permanent immunity. And not give the dangerous vaccine to anyone.

cia parker

I would be interested in what Dr. Ianelli told us about it, but I've read that Gareth had large-cell pneumonia which couldn't have been treated by any means, and is said to be always fatal. I'd like to know if high-dose vitamin C might have been able to treat it, but don't know if there's any evidence about that.

cia parker

I've read that disease eats up stores of vitamins C and A very fast, so that it's always a good idea to supplement (caution as to A though unless it's beta carotene, only appropriate dose). Dr. Humphries recommended taking vitamin A even for First World patients, and said then you wouldn't even have to darken the room to protect their eyes.

Jenny Allan

Thank you for these links Eindeker:-
First link:-
All laboratory confirmed cases of measles, mumps and rubella: England and Wales (England only).


Year Measles Mumps Rubella
2012 2030 (1912) 2564 (2476) 65 (65)
2013* 1843 (1413) 4035 (3524) 12 (12)

Years 2012 and 2013 were plainly 'anomaly' years reflecting the measles outbreaks in the NE England and Wales. What jumped out at me were the numbers of confirmed MUMPS cases, exceeding measles cases in both years. In the UK press and media we were inundated with measles outbreak hype, but mumps? ...not a cheep!! .. apart from a 'whinge' from Cardiff University in a Welsh newspaper, about the high numbers of undergraduate students contracting Mumps. I endorse Bayareamom's comment about this, I hope she won't mind me reproducing part of her comment here:-

"A consequence is that giving MMR vaccine to children cannot be justified on clinical or ethical grounds. And as there is insufficient clinical benefit to children to introduce mass mumps vaccination, it cannot be justified as a general public health measure.

And one consequence of this unnecessary measure is that we are now putting young male adults at risk of orchitis and sterility because they did not catch natural mumps harmlessly when children and because MMR vaccination is not effective in conferring full or lasting immunity across an entire population."

Link 2

"Following the Measles-Rubella (MR) school campaign in November 1994 the Public Health England predecessor (PHLS) has offered oral fluid testing to confirm the diagnosis on all notified cases of measles, mumps and rubella. This is part of the enhanced surveillance programme for these vaccine-preventable diseases. The table below shows only the cases confirmed by oral fluid IgM antibody tests and/or PCR in each quarter compared to the number of notified cases."

Year Quarter Uncorrected notified cases Oral fluid tests % of notified cases with tests Oral fluid positive tests % of positive tests
2014 2nd* 677 518 76.51% 10 1.93%
2014 1st 887 703 79.26% 69 9.82%
2013 4th 716 620 86.59% 41 6.61%
2013 3rd 1108 774 69.86% 84 10.85%
2013 2nd 4037 2655 65.77% 434 16.35%
2013 1st 2621 1373 52.38% 402 29.28%

This table takes us into 2014 where only 10 measles cases have been confirmed for the first 2 quarters. Again there seems to be some considerable anomalies in the percentages of cases confirmed by laboratory tests, ranging from less than 2% in 2014 2nd quarter to nearly 30% in the 1st 2013 quarter. This correlates with much of the Welsh measles press and media 'hype', which we were subjected to in March 2013, when in reality only 8 actual cases had been laboratory confirmed in Wales. I would like an explanation from our UK Government as to why 2013 laboratory confirmations of suspected cases in England and Wales ranged from around 7% to 30%. Even allowing for doctors difficulties in diagnosing measles from symptoms alone, surely this is unacceptable and merits an investigation?

Eindeker-since we appear to be in broad agreement about the benefits and necessity of measles immunisations, I see no point in arguing about how this should be achieved. The single measles vaccine in common with ALL vaccines is 'unavoidably unsafe', but overall there were fewer problems reported than with MMR vaccine. If you agree mumps is unnecessary, and actually counter productive, since it plainly loses efficacy after a few years, then the only jab necessary for all children during childhood is measles, two jabs including a pre school booster.
Girls can now be tested for rubella immunity pre puberty and immunised if necessary. There's no need to vaccinate boys against this extremely mild disease. I think that takes care of your 'too many jabs' argument.
* I apologise for the difficulties in reproducing the tables here. Please access the links for a clearer picture.

cia parker

Eindeker and Ionelli,

Giving fever reducers increases the rate of death and complications. Do you want the citations of the studies which prove that assertion? That means that you are not giving complete evidence when you say that there is one in a thousand deaths from measles, in an age which routinely gives fever reducers for any fever. It was only less than one in 10,000 deaths in 1960 according to Langmuir's chart

Elena Conis, from Emory Unversity, in Vaccine Nation, said that the death rate from measles according to the CDC was only one in 100,000, which is much lower than Langmuir's low rate.

Some doctors a year and a half ago were saying that the death rate from measles was one in 500 cases. This is clearly false, which leads one to believe that the one in 1,000 rate is also false, since it is so much higher than the UK rate in the '80s or the US rate in the early '60s. If it is accurate, you'd have to consider what the reason for it being so much higher now is, and I'd say that since we know that reducing fever (with Tylenol or anything else) increases the rate of complications and fatality, and since we know that antipyretics are used routinely now when they weren't in earlier times, it would seem to suggest that modern methods of treating fever have caused a higher death rate. Unless you can provide a trustworthy study showing a comparably high death rate from measles in those who get no fever reducers, you have not shown that measles is a dangerous disease.

cia parker

And to prevent the four in 10,000 cases of death in infants under one year old from measles, if their mothers have had natural measles, then they give the babies placental immunity lasting from six to twelve months, and they give them immunity from breast feeding for as long as it continues. Again, let girls get measles as children the way we used to, and their infants will not get measles during their most vulnerable year.

cia parker

Dr. Ianelli,
But did those who died of measles in the outbreak twenty years ago take fever reducers such as Tylenol to reduce the typically very high fever (increasing their risk of complications and death?? Did they stay in bed well-hydrated throughout the illness, did they take supplemental vitamin A? Did they stay home for three weeks after the day the rash appeared? And how many of those who died had a previously existing health condition that made any infection more dangerous for them? I am certain that those following these simple precautions would not have a serious outcome from measles. Again, in the UK in the '80s the death rate was only one or two per 10,000 cases, and most of those would have been immuoncompromised, like the one death in the Swansea, Wales, outbreak two years ago. Having natural measles is very beneficial for the vast majority, and not having it causes problems, and having the vaccine causes a lot of extremely serious problems in a large number of those who get it. While there are risks on either side, I would go for letting healthy children just get the natural disease, it is much the less risky course of action.


Further from prior posted link:

..."Providing treatment to a patient that is not clinically needed and misleading patients as to the clinical need for a treatment so as to vitiate their consent can mean the administration of the treatment is a criminal offence: Appleton v Garrett (1995) 34 BMLR 23.

According to The British Medical Association (‘BMA’) and The Royal Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain (RPSGB) mumps vaccination is clinically inappropriate:-
“Since mumps and its complications are very rarely serious there is little indication for the routine use of mumps vaccine”: British National Formulary (‘BNF’) 1985 and 1986

Freedom of Information documents show the UK’s Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation and Ministry of Defence agreed as early as 1974 that:-

“there was no need to introduce routine vaccination against mumps” because “complications from the disease were rare” JCVI minutes 11 Dec 1974.

Doctors and nurses who fail to tell parents mumps vaccine in MMR is clinically unnecessary, of the exact risks of adverse reactions and then give the vaccine appear to be behaving unethically, potentially in contravention of the criminal law and liable to civil proceedings for damages. They are also unable to explain the exact risks because data on adverse reactions are not being collected properly or at all, and there is evidence showing adverse reaction data are suppressed.

A consequence is that giving MMR vaccine to children cannot be justified on clinical or ethical grounds. And as there is insufficient clinical benefit to children to introduce mass mumps vaccination, it cannot be justified as a general public health measure.

And one consequence of this unnecessary measure is that we are now putting young male adults at risk of orchitis and sterility because they did not catch natural mumps harmlessly when children and because MMR vaccination is not effective in conferring full or lasting immunity across an entire population.

One effect of MMR vaccination has been to push mumps outbreaks into older age groups. Mumps now circulates in colleges and universities: Mumps and the UK epidemic 2005, R K Gupta, J Best, E MacMahon BMJ 2005;330:1132-1135 (14 May)..."



Interesting article: https://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/graphs/#Meas_Mort_UK_USA


..."The seeming fall in reported ordinary [ie. non fatal] measles cases in the above Halsey graph after 1968 is misleading. Doctors are poor in accuracy of diagnosis and follow fashions. Official UK records for 2006 show that when doctors are looking for a disease, they overdiagnose suspected measles cases varying by 10 times to 74 times higher than is confirmed by laboratory testing: [74 times overdiagnosed SOURCE: CDR Weekly, Volume 15 Number 12 Published: 24 March 2005], [10 times overdiagnosed, CDR Weekly, PHLS 12:26], [ 15.6 times overdiagnosed, SOURCE: CDR Weekly, Volume 16 Number 12 Published on: 23 March 2006]

Correspondingly, when vaccination was introduced, they will tend to follow the fashion of not diagnosing measles, where they believe it controlled by vaccination. This following of fashions has been seen in other areas, including Coroner diagnoses of causes of death..."


That is an honest comment Jenny: After MMR vaccine was introduced in the UK, child measles deaths became extremely rare, the actual numbers being 0-2 per year for the last decade and you are correct the link I gave was notified cases (because it also had the mortality stats). The table you were referring to, confirmed cases of measles is here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/measles-confirmed-cases/confirmed-cases-of-measles-mumps-and-rubella-in-england-and-wales-2012-to-2013 , and there were still almost 2000 confirmed cases of measles/year for 2012 & 2013. This confirms the mortality rate as 1 death every few 1000 cases of measles.
But I'm afraid Jenny the stats above show that Dr Iannelli's recall is correct and you are talking TOSH The above demonstrates your "recall reading and writing about the UK outbreaks - about 2,000 cases and 1 death a year since 2011", is complete TOSH!!

You recommend single vaccines, as did Dr Wakefield, but please give any evidence that these have fewer adverse events than the combined MMR vaccine my understanding is that Wakefield's comments had no factual basis, as in evidence. There are good practical reasons for using the MMR, as I'm sure you are aware: 2/3rds fewer visits to the GP and not delaying protecting the infant over a prolonged course of injections.
@ Cia Parker's statement I think these advantages make measles a desirable disease to get, preferably before puberty, but it is usually not dangerous even when adults get it. doesn't really stand up to reality does it now?



Here's the 'Flintstone/Brady Bunch" video:


I, too, had all these dreaded diseases as a kid and as you can all see, I made it! My sister had them, too. I can still remember being yelled at by my Mom to quit jumping on the bed when I had the measles (and during the chicken pox). In both us kids, the rash(es) were fairly benign. We stayed home from pre-school/elementary school for a few days until we were well.


What refugee camp were you in?

Are all refugee camps the same? I guess it would depend on the leaders and the people organizing and doing a good job.

John Stone:
As for measles - Rubella - my sister is buried less than five feet away from a 7 year old that finally died of a heart operation complications - the heart problems were from rubella caught while in the womb. They went to our church and it was horrible. The Mother did not hold on to her immunity to rubella. Both of them died in 1977.

So which Measles are you all referring to that it is not a benign disease? Because I had both of them and so did all my class mates. And Don't We all know that anything can go wrong anytime when fighting off a disease - that is why we put the sick in bed, feed them all we can, nurse them all we can.

But the majority did get over both types of measles and the mumps --I know I lived it like all my age did.

Now we are talking about a rise in autim, rise in bipolar, rise in drug abuse (co morbid with mental illness that is co morbid with brian injuries (immune problems)

It looks to me that a bunch of medical people are vaccinating our brains out and no research - not even a discussion about it is on going.

Yes, I have wept for the boy beside my sister's grave - as did the whole community. BUT I ALONE HAVE WEPT FOR THE BRAIN INJURY RECEIVED BECAUSE OF A VACCINE TO MY SON.


Jenny Allan; I really liked your comments. Thank you.

Linda1, loved your comments too. In Dr Ianelli's defense, he has made comments in the past that were very supportive of breastfeeding; one thing we do agree on.

I did have measles as a kid; it was a couple of weeks of bed rest, the worst part being the itchiness and not being allowed to scratch.. And at that time my parents and their friends did try and make sure we all got it ( I seem to vaguely remember being sent into a sick boys room with several others).

Was talking about it with a friend recently. She also got measles as a kid; apparently her bout was so mild she had exactly one spot.

Does that mean no one ever got complications? No. People are on record as having died from the common cold ( particularly small infants) and per CDC figures death from flu ( though it is fair to say those figures are very questionable, and probably inflated) are far higher than deaths from the measles. On the CDC site, they suggest deaths from 1976-1977 through 2006-2007 ranged from a low of 3000 to a high of 49000.Puts that "132" even if it is legitimate, kind of in perspective, doesn't it?

Dr Ianelli; how do you recommend you patients look after children with the measles?
Do you recommend hospitalization, or do you encourage most patients to be cared for at home?
By the way, I was recently reading that WHO found that vitamin A levels in third world countries effected the severity of cases of measles.
Would be interested to know your thoughts/opinions on that also Dr Ianelli. Do you recommend any vitamin A supplements as part of measles treatment, or do you think in our modern western culture children don't need them?
Am interested in knowing what your advice would be either way, and if you do support vitamin A supplements how much you would recommend?

The cases Jenny Allan describes where a man died from medical mistreatment of his pneumonia does not sound like something any reasonable person would consider to be a death caused by the measles.

And of course, given that the MMR is a live virus vaccine, there is always the risk that newly vaccinated people can spread the virus to immuno-compromised people, or if their own immune system is compromised, catch it themselves.

And of course, in terms of risks versus benefits, if we are going to talk about death or disability from the measles, we have to also talk about death or permanent brain damage caused by the MMR.

Jenny Allan

Eindeker states:- " Just how many deaths & outbreaks does will it take to convince that:

A Measles does kill people
B Vaccination does prevent deaths & measles outbreaks??"

Just to remind folks of my own stance regarding measles vaccination, which I have reiterated plenty of times on this thread. Like Dr Wakefield, I would like to see a return to single measles vaccinations on child immunisation schedules. In that respect, I have put my actions where my mouth is, by having both my daughters vaccinated against measles, more than 40 years ago, and more recently, sharing the considerable expense of obtaining single measles, mumps and rubella vaccines for my grandson, sibling of our 'Wakefield Babe. Eindeker would like to label me and everyone else here as anti vaccine and ignoring the dangers of certain diseases.

However, spreading false doom and gloom and misinformation about measles is counterproductive in terms of maintaining public confidence in vaccines.

Jenny Allan

Eindeker - The stats link you provided was for measles NOTIFICATIONS in England and Wales. This includes both suspected and confirmed cases. Children's rashes can be from many causes. Most are nothing to do with measles which can only be confirmed via a laboratory sample. The UK regions keep separate stats for CONFIRMED cases. The ones I quoted were from Wales, the subject of Dr Iannetti's query. From the link:-
Source: Office for National Statistics

"Prior to 2006, the last death from acute measles was in 1992. In 2006, there was 1 measles death in a 13-year-old male who had an underlying lung condition and was taking immunosuppressive drugs. Another death in 2008 was also due to acute measles in an unvaccinated child with a congenital immunodeficiency, whose condition did not require treatment with immunoglobulin.

In 2013, 1 death was reported in a 25-year-old man following acute pneumonia as a complication of measles. All other measles deaths since 1992 shown above are in older individuals and were caused by the late effects of measles. These infections were acquired during the 1980s or earlier, when epidemics of measles occurred."

As I stated accurately on this thread, there have been only 2 child measles deaths in the UK post MMR vaccine. These children were unvaccinated due to co-morbidities, nothing to do with Dr Wakefield. The death of the young Welsh man, was attributed to measles, even although the coroner recorded the death as acute respiritory failure. It was said the measles MIGHT have caused the pneumonia, but this young man had just been discharged from hospital where he was treated for acute asthma. There are many unanswered questions, such as 'Did he contract measles in hospital?' 'Was he vaccinated against measles in hospital as a precaution?' (Asthma treatment can leave patients immune compromised and vulnerable to disease from live vaccine viruses). Why was this dangerously ill patient refused re-admission to hospital?


Now who's talking TOSH Jenny???: 1 death/year & a few 1000 cases every year in the UK looks absolutely spot on!https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/measles-deaths-by-age-group-from-1980-to-2013-ons-data/measles-notifications-and-deaths-in-england-and-wales-1940-to-2013
It may not fit with your view of the world but unfortunately where there are communities with low vaccination rates measles outbreaks & deaths go hand in hand:
2014 review: •European Union - In the previous 12 months, there have been at least 4,735 cases in 30 EU/EEA countries, with many of the cases being found in Germany, Italy, and the Netherlands. Only 4.9% of the cases were completely vaccinated. The cases were complicated by one death and 5 cases of measles encephalitis.
2011 review: Current outbreaks of measles in Europe are a reminder of the important risks of death and serious morbidity associated with measles. Between 2009 and 2010, cases of measles increased dramatically in Europe, with notifications increasing from 7175 to 30 367.1 In 2010 most reported cases were in Bulgaria (22 005), but there were also 5019 in France, 861 in Italy, 787 in Germany, 406 in Ireland, 397 in the United Kingdom, and 302 in Spain. Of these, 21 877 people were admitted to hospital and 21 died (case fatality 0.69 deaths/1000 reported cases); 71% of people infected were aged under 20 years and 85% were unvaccinated. The World Health Organization has reported outbreaks in 24 European countries already this year.2 There is little sign of a decrease in cases in 2011, and travel has facilitated transmission between countries. From January to March 2011, 9349 cases were reported, and 18 of 32 reporting countries found that the incidence of measles was higher than during the same period in 2010

Just how many deaths & outbreaks does will it take to convince that:

A Measles does kill people
B Vaccination does prevent deaths & measles outbreaks??

What more evidence do you need??

Jenny Allan

Another thing: Whilst Dr Sara Hayes, director of public health at Abertawe Bro Morgannwg University Health Board, was busy spreading all that misinformation and downright lies about that 2013 so called Welsh measles epidemic, nasty cases of neglect were happening in some of her hospitals. There have since been other reported failures in basic care and competence.

"Inquiry call over care failings
Chiefs 'unacceptable care' apology
Hospital 'failed' in care of patient
Failings in patient care at two Welsh hospitals have been criticised in an independent report.

The Trusted To Care review was held after concerns at Neath Port Talbot Hospital and the Princess of Wales Hospital in south Wales. It followed the neglect of patient Lilian Williams, 82, who died after being treated at both hospitals. Her family complained and it led to the review, they are now calling for a public inquiry.
First-hand experiences

"A review team member said: "There were patients calling out, one stuck in bed with bed rails, and one lady said to me, 'I am in hell'."
The daughter of one patient said: "We couldn't look to the nurses to care for mum. They had no power. They couldn't get a doctor when we needed one.
"They couldn't get medicines over the weekend, or a swallowing test. My mum had no medication or food or water for days."
Another said: "Dad has someone to help him wash and dress every morning at home, but in hospital they left him with the cloth and a bowl to wash himself.
"I found dried excrement on his legs …when we got him home. He can't see or reach round behind him. If I had known I'd have got the carers to come in and see to him in the hospital."

"A review was ordered by Health Minister Mark Drakeford into levels of care offered by both hospitals.It catalogued a series of failings at the two hospitals, describing "a sense of hopelessness" in its care for frail and elderly patients. It found "poor professional behaviour" and a "lack of suitably qualified, educated and motivated staff"

Dr Hays wasted huge amounts of cash, energy and personnel on that so called Swansea measles 'epidemic' (not). Meanwhile, sick and desperate patients were dying of neglect in her hospitals.

Jenny Allan

Vincent Iannelli asks me:- "Can you post a source or a site that made such a claim? I follow international measles outbreaks closely too and recall reading and writing about the UK outbreaks - about 2,000 cases and 1 death a year since 2011."

Pleased to oblige Vincent Iannelli:-
UPDATE MEASLES UK 2013 – BBC News Secretly Removes Fake News Claims from Website – Health Officials in Tail-Spin Over Vastly Hyped Claims of Welsh Measles Epidemic
Extract:- "Thanks to information from Jenny Allan we show what the BBC has now “doctored” from its online news reports to remove the fake news the BBC had reported from the wildly exaggerated claims quoted by Dr Sara Hayes. They have also changed the headline but the original headline is here in a tweet from the BBC’s health “journalist” (?) Fergus Walsh who seems to have “led the charge” at the BBC to scare parents with fake news: “Measles: Swansea epidemic cases could exceed 600 http://bbc.in/Xpi860“. What a bunch of crooks. Clearly, no one anywhere in the world can trust the BBC’s reporting. No wonder the muslim world does not trust the WASPs [White Anglo-Saxon Protestants] in the western first world who seem to manipulate their lives with such fakery. If there are any responsible people working as journalists at the BBC might they stand up and complain? Or maybe they should get a job with a less discreditable organisation?
Why does the BBC engage in these fake news crooked practices of airbrushing false news when caught instead of owning up and apologising so the British tax and licence payers and the world can see? The fact they have changed the headline too is damning – the airbrushed 9th April story still reads “9 April 2013 Last updated at 19:31” when plainly false. These folks are clearly culpable – publishing fake news and then airbrushing it out when caught.
Here is the extract from the original – with the parts shown in red now deleted:-
Measles: Swansea epidemic cases could exceed 600 – BBC Health – Measles 9th April 2013
“Death risk’ in outbreak
“We are not in any way judgmental about why their children may have missed the MMR in the past. The important thing is that they get the jab now,” she added.

Before the introduction of the MMR in 1988, about half a million children caught measles and about 100 died from it each year in the UK.”

Also http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22385218
2nd May 2013
"Swansea measles: Cases in epidemic rise to 1,039
The number of cases in the Swansea measles epidemic has risen to 1,039, an increase of 28 in the past two days.
Public Health Wales (PHW) said across Wales the total has reached 1,170, and 85 people have been hospitalised.
It said that 33,000 non-routine MMR vaccinations have been given around the country during the outbreak.
But it said that too few 10-18-year-olds were receiving the jab, and they were the hardest hit by the epidemic.
Large numbers of children in that age group were never given the MMR vaccine, the result of a scare that caused panic among parents."

This was complete tosh!! But I'm not surprised Dr Ianelli and others around the world were fooled by all this misinformation put out by the Welsh Heath authorities with the full backing of the UK Government and the BBC. The blunt fact is the vast majority of these cases were SUSPECTED measles. The ACTUAL numbers can be found on the Wales notifiable diseases surveillance site.
The final 'tally' of CONFIRMED Welsh measles cases for the whole of 2013 was as follows. This includes adults up to age 55. You might be interested in the mumps stats.
2013 327 included adults up to age 57
220 April 50 May
All Wales surveillance of laboratory confirmed infections
2013 Mumps 56
2014 Mumps 26 virtually all mumps cases in 15-34 age group
Measles 22

Perhaps you can now tell us more about those US outbreaks you mentioned Dr Ianelli, with supporting evidence. We are all very interested. In the meantime please desist from spreading misiformation about UK measles cases The above demonstrates your "recall reading and writing about the UK outbreaks - about 2,000 cases and 1 death a year since 2011", is complete TOSH!!

Vincent Iannelli, MD

"A recent UK measles outbreak in Wales, was horribly overhyped, with wild claims about 'millions' of cases and 100s of child deaths prior to MMR vaccine implementation. "

Can you post a source or a site that made such a claim? I follow international measles outbreaks closely too and recall reading and writing about the UK outbreaks - about 2,000 cases and 1 death a year since 2011.

Millions were at risk of measles because they were unvaccinated, but I never read about millions of cases or 100s of deaths.

Jeannette Bishop

I've been trying to get a better understanding of the 1989-1991 outbreak. One question in my mind is what percentage of infants too young to be vaccinated were involved? Another question is the timing of the first dose of MMR in 1988?

This MMWR report http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00017268.htm mentions that in infants age 16-59 months vaccination coverage "as recommended" was only 15% (this was also considering DTP, and OPV). I'm not sure what that means in terms of MMR or other measles vaccine coverage. I had the impression that MMR was not administered until 18 months for a time--I'm not sure that is correct. Also, there is no mention of the outbreak's impact on younger infants.

When I searched on the phrase "1989-1991 measles epidemic" under images, I see a graph connected to this medscape article, http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/551272_5, that shows a 1670% increase in incidence in infants under one year for the year 1990 compared to the prior nine years. Only a part of the graph, concerning ages 1-4, is viewable (at least on my computer) at the medscape site. I have to view it through my search engine. I can't be sure what this means in terms of the overall numbers of very young infants, but it seems a rather significantly sudden change in incidence for that age to not be included in prominent discussion of the outbreak.

Jenny Allan

@Vincent Iannelli -" There were large measles outbreaks in the United States from 1989-1991 before we started giving two doses of MMR vaccine. There were 55,622 cases and 123 deaths. Almost all deaths were in completely unvaccinated people and nearly half were in children under age 5 years."

I am slightly puzzled by your presentation of these statistics, Dr Iannelli. Coming from the UK, I am familiar with the UK decline of measles cases, in response to the implementation of child vaccine schedules. As I understand it, in the US as in the UK, a single measles vaccine was introduced into the child vaccination schedule in the 1960s. This eventually led to a steep decline in child measles cases, long before the implementation of MMR vaccine in 1988.

After MMR vaccine was introduced in the UK, child measles deaths became extremely rare, the actual numbers being in single figures, and these children were unvaccinated due to co-morbidities, which meant vaccinations were contraindicated.

I understand MMR vaccine was introduced a few years earlier in the US. Even so, around 60 child measles deaths seems a lot in the 3 year post MMR vaccine window you highlighted. You state these were healthy children and unvaccinated. How do you know this? What were the ages of these children? Were they too young to be vaccinated? Measles can be dangerous if contracted in babies under one year old, which brings Linda1's breastfeeding conferred immunity comments into the equation.

A recent UK measles outbreak in Wales, was horribly overhyped, with wild claims about 'millions' of cases and 100s of child deaths prior to MMR vaccine implementation. This was all complete rubbish, and of course Dr Wakefield was dragged out yet again to 'blame', this time for what was claimed to be unvaccinated teenagers-more rubbish!!
The upshot was hundreds of parents were panicked into getting their babies MMR vaccinated, whilst under a year old, something warned against in the Merck vaccine insert, which also warns about unnecessary vaccinations. These babies were still apparently to receive another MMR vaccination at the usual 15-18months time.

The Welsh 'teenagers'? Thankfully these youngsters had more sense than the Welsh Health authorities. The majority of them were already MMR vaccinated and knew it. They shunned any more needless needles and the UK taxpayers were left with a > £100,000 bill for unwanted MMR vaccine.

I note with interest your comment about TWO doses of MMR vaccine, since this too seemed to be a Welsh Health spokesperson mantra. Where will it end? Boosters every year? No thanks! Incidently, Dr Wakefield was always in favour of vaccinating against measles, but pleaded for a return to the single vaccine, in use for 20 years before the MMR vaccine. We have all paid a heavy price, worldwide, for this sensible advice being ignored.


Those of us who lived through the prevaccine era beg to differ.

Vincent Iannelli, MD

" I'm thinking if our society were more responsible and had some sense and if people were free to do what is right for their children (as in keeping them home when they're sick), it would have been much less."

It was much less than in the pre-vaccine era...


A few more points, Vincent. If the mothers of those children who succumbed to measles had had measles themselves when they were children, instead of the vaccine, then their deceased children would have had a better fighting chance with the increased immunity that would have passed to them in infancy. In addition, if the medical and corporate communities would protect and enable long-term breastfeeding instead of protecting Pharma's formula industry by engaging in the disruption and discouragement of breastfeeding at every opportunity, then, again, those children would have had a better chance since they would still have the benefit of their mother's immune system through her milk at the age of 2,3 and 4 YEARS which would have gone a long way toward fighting any pathogenic viral, bacterial or fungal invasion, including measles.

Why don't you spend some energy promoting nature's immunization in explaining the biological need for mothers and babies to breastfeed? Why is it always about vaccines while right under your nose mothers who don't know any better choose inferior pharmaceutical feeding that will leave them vulnerable to disease for a lifetime while other mothers wean prematurely because of incorrect cultural bias that the medical community makes no real effort to correct?

Are you as vocal about breastfeeding as you are about vaccines? If not, why?


The risk-benefit analysis of treating the world's population with this drug can only be made when there is an honest accounting of MMR caused deaths, morbidity and disability, and when there is an understanding of the role that childhood diseases play in the development of the complex and poorly understood human immune system.

It is fascinating how deaths and disability of an undisclosed percentage of the population is acceptable when it is a side effect, AKA collateral damage, of the war on disease, of vaccines. We have a multi-billion dollar fund to pay off the wounded and deceased.

Of course the first claim of the medical establishment was that the measles vaccine would impart life long immunity. Then, after tens of thousands of measles cases and 123 deaths, a booster was determined to be needed. Well, it's not over yet for that generation, is it? How long will the second booster last if it imparted immunity in the first place? Will they become vulnerable in their 50's? 60's? etc? How many boosters will be tolerated before there is widespread anaphylaxis from repeated exposure to this and the plethora of other vaccines now recommended? What's that? We don't know. And that's the problem. It may well be that 123 deaths, as horrible as any deaths are especially of children, may be better than what man has created with his hubristic and short-sighted tampering with ecosystems that he doesn't understand. And it may well be too, that if the medical industrial complex was doing its job in taking care of patients instead of pushing drugs, if physicians were educated in nutrition and knowledgable of how diseases like measles were treated in the past, without fever reducers that impair the immune response leaving patients more vulnerable, and if there was an insistence on appropriate rest instead of children being rushed back to school and daycare so that their parents don't lose their jobs and school records aren't tarnished by what would now be considered excessive absences, then maybe that 123 would have been less. I'm thinking if our society were more responsible and had some sense and if people were free to do what is right for their children (as in keeping them home when they're sick), it would have been much less.

Vincent Iannelli, MD

"Dr. Gordon said last spring that measles wasn't dangerous for healthy children. "

There were large measles outbreaks in the United States from 1989-1991 before we started giving two doses of MMR vaccine. There were 55,622 cases and 123 deaths. Almost all deaths were in completely unvaccinated people and nearly half were in children under age 5 years.

These weren't Third World conditions. These weren't unhealthy children. Measles can be a serious, life-threatening condition.

Whatever you think of the vaccine, you shouldn't minimize how deadly this vaccine-preventable condition can be. At least don't do it at the same time that you are talking about censorship and looking for a "trustworthy, reliable source for information."


Thanks Jenny.

Jeannette Bishop

Thanks, all, for all the measles risk and treatment info!

I'm not sure I'm "pro-measles," but it seems to me that we don't know all that a measles infection might do, some of which might be called a benefit:


So, I do wonder, if there is such benefit possible with most or some viral infections, if the best course is to try to avoid problematic cases, instead of any and all cases.

And I'm not sure vaccination reduces risks of problematic cases (considering vaccination like getting a case of disease and the risks as disease morbidity) particularly when given in greater number than I think the average infant has chance of encountering serious natural infections in two years or so, and with greater doses of immune agitating pollutants than could pass true safety research.

But we see here with this poor man having a suspicious rash, and probably a less than ideal vaccine history, one possible "natural" (because MMR never leads to cases of horizontal transmission) case, whatever the outcome, should not happen.

Our children dealing with an outcome of neurological disability rate of something like 1 in 10? Infant mortality ranking that approaches disqualifying us as a developed country? Oh well, what else is to be done? Most of them were vaccinated as well as we could manage...and lots of them are taking medication, getting therapy...we can't let that accomplishment get away from us...

cia parker

I agree. The vaccine is much more dangerous than measles. I think it would be good to educate people as to how to handle measles, sum it up in five bullet points, and then we'd see how harmless it nearly always is.


My parents were refugees and orphans who spent months in refugee camps. The refugees were 3000 children ages 7 – 15. In recent years historians have taken a look at this group of unfortunate children, collecting oral histories and the media coverage at the time. Note the children were without parents, slept on the ground under tents and were always hungry.
At least one newspaper at the time marveled at how these kids in the refugee camps did not come down with the diseases the public health observers anticipated. The expected outbreaks did not happen.

cia parker


When I was in grad school I came across that 1957, sometimes 1958, cutoff date. Those born before then have a 99% or better chance of having permanent immunity from having had natural measles, and I guess they just didn't and don't think the tiny number that don't have immunity are worth worrying about.

Dr. Michaela Glockler (German anthroposophic physician) said the one in a thousand with measles encephalitis figure was wildly exaggerated. She said she and her colleagues had found that it was really one in 10,000 measles cases that had encephalitis, one in 15,000 toddlers, and that back in 1960, the prognosis for complete recovery was good. She said that to the extent there had been a real increase in incidence, that it would be because nearly everyone these days gives fever reducers to reduce the fever, which increases the rate of complications and death, from measles or any other febrile illness. The immune system knows how high to make the fever and how long to hold it there, and many immune mechanisms are activated by increasing fever. Leukocytes travel twice as fast to do their job for every degree increase in fever. The body moves iron out of the blood so the microbes can't feed on it when the temperature goes up. There are many more, but the important thing is to trust the competence of the immune system. Let the patient pull up the covers or push them back as he needs to do for his comfort, give him drinks to keep him well-hydrated, but leave the fever alone and it's very unlikely that he'll get encephalitis. Staying warm in bed, no baths or showers during fever, makes it very unlikely that pneumonia will occur.

Dr. Gordon said last spring that measles wasn't dangerous for healthy children. It can be dangerous for malnourished people (who can't mount the lifesaving fever) and for people who are immunocompromised. Otherwise, those who follow the precautions I mentioned (also take appropriate doses of vitamin A to prevent complications and eye damage), will have nothing to worry about, and having gone through the natural disease will give permanent immunity, a stronger immune system, the ability to protect future infants with placental immunity and breast feeding, and produces developmental strides. It also protects against several cancers and degenerative diseases in later life. Dr. Buttram said that the most important training for the humoral immune system could only be attained from going through natural measles, mumps, rubella, and chickenpox.

I think these advantages make measles a desirable disease to get, preferably before puberty, but it is usually not dangerous even when adults get it.

Jenny Allan

Linda1 asks(of measles):- "Will a childhood case render a senior immune after 40-50 years of no exposure to the virus? Supposedly, but do we really know under post vaccine era conditions?"

In the UK at least we SHOULD know, since measles is a notifiable disease and all confirmed cases are recorded and published, including details of age groupings. The recent, much publicised Welsh outbreak recorded no cases in the 55+ age group. This seems to confirm measles immunity in the pre vaccine population. In the UK, measles vaccine was introduced in 1968.


It is not really a good idea to call measles a "beneficial experience." You can actually die from it. Side effects can be encephalopathy which may leave a person mentally in bad shape. The fever of measles is usually very high. I had measles when I was a baby, and I recovered just fine. It's a mistake to underestimate measles.


I think a far bigger mistake, is to underestimate the danger of the measles vaccine.

Especially when you consider, that the efficacy of the vaccine has never even been proven.

John Stone


I slightly side with Birgit. I don't think we should entirely dismiss the hazards of the disease but it doesn't excuse all the lying that goes on about the safety of the vaccine.



Yeah measles was a real problem in concentration camps, refugee camps of people running away from people trying to kill them, down in the ditches in war ridden countries.


ABC news just reported there was NO measle case, the person tested negative.

Birgit Calhoun

It is not really a good idea to call measles a "beneficial experience." You can actually die from it. Side effects can be encephalopathy which may leave a person mentally in bad shape. The fever of measles is usually very high. I had measles when I was a baby, and I recovered just fine. It's a mistake to underestimate measles.


(no explanation of why and, really, is there absolutely no risk of getting measles if one was born before 1957?)

Interesting point, Jeanette. We assume that there is life long immunity, however, that was when there was ongoing exposure to the wild virus which presumably would have served to boost immunity. Will a childhood case render a senior immune after 40-50 years of no exposure to the virus? Supposedly, but do we really know under post vaccine era conditions?

Jeannette Bishop

I first thought they were reporting two cases, but it appears to be two locations visited by one person "believed to have measles." I assume we'll likely hear more if they have laboratory confirmation, and especially if there are more cases.


I attempted to post, nothing..asked a friend if I could post using her sign in..again, nothing...unless they show up at some point as "doubles", the CBS site doesn't seem to be allowing new comments.

Jeannette Bishop

I guess CBS is really boxing its unaware readers in, censuring people who might want more accurate and informative coverage:

big picture of a vaccine right under the headline (had to cover that part to even be able to contemplate the article), no mention of how to treat measles or lessen risk of adverse outcomes if you develop an infection, risk for infection seems to be based on whether you are up to date on the current vaccine except for the curious case of having been born before 1957 (no explanation of why and, really, is there absolutely no risk of getting measles if one was born before 1957?) and the unfortunate position of being too young to received the vaccine (don't use any words to indicate the risk the vaccine poses to the very young or mention possibility of maternal immunity protection if the mother has had natural measles), no mention that you might still be at risk even with an up-to-date vaccine (is that appropriate to leave out in a responsible disease outbreak warning?)...

They don't mention whether there might be atypical risks for those with vaccine injury (particularly if one suspects MMR as having played a part in that injury) or for other cases of immune suppression or skewing (scrambling?)...not sure if that happens with measles...

cia parker

I had both measles and German measles (rubella) as a child too. I actually had the worst case of measles the doctor had ever seen, but I don't know why he said that, I wasn't hospitalized and I recovered just fine. It may have done eye damage which I still suffer from, but the damage may have been caused by the autoimmune inflammation caused by the vaccines. Apparently measles is often much more serious in adults than in children, maybe because their immune systems are more developed and fight the virus so strongly that it may damage or kill the host, as in the Spanish flu. It was MUCH better when nearly all children caught it at school or from siblings who caught it at school between the ages of five and ten. But parents must be aware that they must keep the sick child in bed from the beginning to the end of the fever, well-hydrated, and give NO fever reducers of any kind, no Tylenol or even sponge baths. And keep the child quiet at home for a good three weeks after the day the rash appears, to give the immune system time to recover, to guard against secondary infections. Give homeopathic bryonia if the rash is slow to appear. Measles is the most serious of the formerly universal childhood diseases, but a very beneficial experience for the vast majority to go through.


It would be nice if CBS would rerun the "Brady Bunch Measles Episode" (season one)

Marion Ross from Happy Days is the doctor and she saves the entire family.

Of course back then, many parents had "measles and mumps parties" in the summer to sicken their children so they would not miss school later in the year.

This worked well and Autism rates were 100 times lower.

Vicki Hill

Measles was not a risk to the adult population - back in the days when nearly everyone had the measles as a child. Parents would intentionally expose their children when they heard that a neighborhood child had the measles, because that would increase the likelihood that their child would get the measles and get it over with...and life-long immunity to boot! The few pregnant women who had never had the measles did try to avoid the disease, but they were the only ones at risk. (Most women had measles when they were children, so it was not an issue during pregnancy.)

But now we have 2 generations of people who got the vaccine instead of the measles. And when the measles pops up somewhere, we now have great risk of adult exposure. Society has taken a benign disease of childhood and turned it into a dangerous disease for adults. (Yes, I had both types of measles as a kid and they are nowhere as bad as today's news reports often claim.)

John Stone

Hi Bob

Note my article for Independence Day:




Bob Moffitt

The expectation that CBS will return to the days when it was considered a trustworthy, reliable source for information the public desperately needs to know is simply unrealistic.

I think it safe to assume the Founding Fathers would not have guaranteed "freedom of the press" had they known that CBS .. like most mainstream media sources .. would one day abandon "investigation journalism" which .. since the very beginning of our great country .. provided the public information they desperately needed to make critical decisions in their lives .. while at the same time holding responsible those in powerful positions accountable for the "deliberate" or "unintended consequences" of "good intentions" gone horribly awry.

Indeed, the "freedom of the press" as practiced today in the USA .. has become "advocacy journalism" .. which deliberately denies critical information for the public to make "informed decisions" on extremely controversial issues .. information that is critical but inconvenient to the media "advocates".

In other words .. "We Report .. You Decide" is no longer the professional standard of major media .. which now appears to be .. We Decide .. We Report .. You comply".

Sounds a lot like PRAVDA to me.

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