Chances Are You Are "Anti-Vaccine" And Don't Even Know It.
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Best of: How to Deal with a Vaccine Bully

Angry doctorNOTE: We're just days away from the start of National Bully Prevention Month. Seems an appropriate time to bring back this "Best of" by Cathy from last October given the recent situation with the CDC Whistleblower and Rob Schneider. 

By  Cathy Jameson

October is National Bully Prevention Month.  It is National Vaccine Injury Month. 

Ironic, no? 

Here are some recent vaccine-related news articles posted on the web during October:

High Court Orders Two Sister Must Receive MMR Vaccine

Announcing UK Government Considering Mandatory Whooping Cough Vaccine for Newborns

Flu Shots During Pregnancy Reduce Autism Risk

Could A Vaccines for PTSD Protect Soldier?

Gates Foundation Introduces Trendy New Bracelets as Ridiculous Marketing Ploy to Push Vaccines
---
My head spins when I see headlines like those above.  But, to the average reader, they may truly not know why some of the content of those stories are absolutely ridiculous.  The reader may not be aware of the many risks of vaccinating or realize how much money goes into this industry.  This happens when mainstream news refuses to offer both sides of the vaccine story. 

I get several phone calls and emails every month from parents asking for help when they see similar headlines in the news.  I get questions like:  What can I do when my doctor isn’t listening to me?  Why is my doctor bullying me about this?  What do I say if I don’t want all those shots?  What should I bring to the appointment to prove what he’s saying about vaccines and autism is wrong?  I let parents know that the best thing that they can, and should do, is to learn as much as they can.  I tell them to be ready to speak up when it’s time and to never forget it’s their child—not the doctor’s, that they are bringing into the exam room.  I also suggest to these parents to read.  Read. Read. Read. Read. Read.  And then read some more.  Knowledge truly is power, and applying that knowledge can be very powerful. 

In the past, the places I spend the most time discussing vaccines, vaccine safety and how autism is linked to vaccines occurs in an exam room with one of my son’s medical providers as well as on blogs, message boards and in the comments of web-based articles.  In the exam room, some doctors and medical staff are adamant about “No vaccines? No service.”  Fine! I say.  I’d rather take my children to someone else who actually respects them and their health.  It may be more costly to find a different provider, but their life is absolutely worth it. 

Online discussions about vaccines can be no different.  Depending on the vaccine topic or fact being discussed, reported or distorted, I’ve run into hostile individuals who refuse to hear me out.  “You don’t like them?  Conversation OVER.”  I learned the hard way that some people aren’t worth engaging.  Fortunately, the last encounter I had with someone online who rudely represented the pro-vaccine camp hasn’t had a repeat.  Easily I could have decided to never discuss vaccines online again with how negative that interaction was.  But I decided I wouldn’t walk away completely.  I can’t because those quietly witnessing the conversation later seek me out offline.  Not wanting to chime in directly, they ask questions behind the scenes and appreciate my perspective as the parent of a vaccine-injured child and ask for advice. 

New parents on the scene, the lurkers who’ve just made the autism-vaccine link discovery, are listening intently to those conversations.  Those lurkers are sometimes on the fence about the decision they face.  Some of them want solid answers and would expect them from professionals they trust.  But how do they trust someone who’s banking off of their medical decisions:  Should I vaccinate?  I think I might. Maybe not all at once though like my friend did with her kid.  He’s been so sick after all those shots and now has autism.  Doctors say the autism has nothing to the shots, but I know it wasn’t there before the shots.  What if I don’t vaccinate? My doctor keeps badgering me like I’m doing something wrong.  I hate it.  He always says, “You know your baby best…” and then hounds me to do what he wants to do.  He says my kids have to have all these shots, SO many of them, to get into school.  I called the school and they take vaccine exemptions, so why is my doctor pressuring me so badly?

New parents have questions.  New parents want answers.  What’s a new parent, or any parent for that matter, to do as they start asking what seems like an innocent question about vaccines either in the exam room or on the internet? 

# 1 – Do stay calm.  Online trolls love vaccine drama.  Pharma shills do too.  They get off on their wordsmithing, their debating skills and how much of your time they can waste.  If it’s in the exam room that you raise a question or concern, and if it’s an ill-informed doctor or pushy nurse you’re up against, be prepared well ahead of time with what you want to ask, say or point out.  Because your knowledge directly benefits your child’s health, stay calm, know your stuff and be ready to stand your ground.  Keep in mind that some practices benefit from doling out pharmaceutical products.  The more you know about where your doctor’s loyalty lies, the stronger you can be with the decisions or statements you want to make.



# 2 – Do show them the studies.  Back in the day this may have been hard to do.  But, with the internet teeming with reliable, scientifically-based data, all one has to do is point out where the studies are.  Ginger Taylor gathered studies  as did TACA .  You’ll see plenty of links to copy, paste, print and share.  The next step once you’ve swapped studies?  Ask them to read your stacks of facts.  Make sure you’ve read theirs also.  Don’t be shy.  You’ll need to read them, too, because you’ll want to know how to counter them politely with science.  If they won’t catch up to what you’re presenting, then you might feel that there’s no need to continue to argue/debate/beat your head against the wall with them.  If, by chance, they do catch up, and if for instance, the argument is vaccines cause autism, follow up with a cordial reply asking if they need more proof that autism can result from vaccinations, share that the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program has compensated families for their child’s autism which resulted from vaccinations.  Remember that you may never get them to switch teams and join the vaccine safety camp, but you can plant tons of seeds to get them to think outside of their pharma-funded pro-vaccine box.

# 3 – Do know the lingo.  Some of these types of conversations come down to semantics.  One of the biggest red flags that pro-vaccinators like to wave, and is utterly incorrect, is when they immediately reference what happened to Dr. Wakefield:  “Dr. Wakefield’s study was debunked!”  This is when things can get especially heated and is the biggest clue for you:  Run.  Just run.  They aren’t worth your time.  They are also showing how immature and wrong they are.  But, if you want to stick around and try to educate them, by all means, tell them the facts.  Tell them that, first of all, it was not a study; it was a paper.  Second, if they’d actually read the paper, they would know that Wakefield, et al never said what the media says they said.  Third, the crucification, of Wakefield was spurred by news reporters in the mainstream media who simultaneously flooded most of what we were reading in the newspapers.  Fourth, these anti-Wakefielders were duped by the very people they adamantly continue to defend because of the misinformation the newspapers reported.  Not until these folks take themselves out of the mainstream media circus sideshow act atmosphere will they be able to realize the truth.  Their heads deeply buried in the sand still to see that yet.

# 4 - Do know what is going on with the “autism is only genetic” or “vaccines save lives” types of articles in mainstream news.  We all want to be well rounded, well versed and well aware of what all sources of media have to say about this very important topic.  Learn to decipher what is fact, what is fiction and what is out right fear mongering.  Reading all of the news coming out of the media is a good idea.  Some of the stories may be hard to stomach, especially the “autism is only genetic” ones, but they are worth the read too.  Read them to know what those who refuse to believe in the autism-vaccine link are saying.  Get to know who these writers are.  Check out who they are quoting and who prints or publishes the information they’re sharing.  Big hint:  just because the title Doctor comes before their name doesn’t mean he or she has your best health interest in mind.  And, just because he or she is elected or nominated to their role doesn’t mean he or she isn’t being persuaded to tell only one side of the story. 

CJ crazy doc


# 5 – Do comment.  When new parents learn the facts, and as they become more comfortable supporting (and defending) the truth, their voice inevitably will get stronger.  Tell your doctor what you’ve learned and that your decision about vaccines, even if it counters his, should be respected.  Don’t be afraid to leave your thoughts in the comment section on news articles.  If someone is disputing that autism is caused by anything but genetics, tell them what you know!  Trolls and shills spend hours and hours countering parents and providers.  Do the same.  Do it as much and as many times as you can.  Don’t tire of it because you never know who is lurking on the thread, article or blog post.  Those lurkers may be soaking in everything you are saying. 

# 6 – Never ever give up.   Parents usually want the best for their children.  Parents concerned about vaccines have committed to doing a 180⁰ on their child’s health when it’s been negatively affected.  The stronger your convictions are about vaccines and vaccine safety, the louder your own voice becomes.  The newfound knowledge, dedication and faith that you find in yourself is invaluable and very well could help the next new parent down the road. 

Now, if you get tired, because I know you will, take a break.  Avoid blogs during the full moon (oy!).  If you have to, find a new doctor who respects you, your child and your family’s wishes.  Take time to read as much as you can.  Speak up when you are strong enough because someone somewhere has heard you and will heed your advice.  Be ready to go through # 1 -5 again.  Keep # 6 close by.  You never know when your words and actions will help save a life.

CJ meme bullied

 
Cathy Jameson is a Contributing Editor for Age of Autism.


Comments

Jon Marathon

I find it ironic that Dr. Iannelli is being a vaccine bully on an article about dealing with vaccine bullies.

Danchi dealt with the issue of the Dalai Lama supporting vaccines pretty well, but I'd like to point Dr. Iannelli and other readers to this excellent article by Sayer Ji, founder of GreenMedInfo.com, who I suspect is Buddhist: http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/questioning-dalai-lama-who-would-buddha-vaccinate1

Although I try to follow Buddhism as an ethical framework, I do not accept its supernatural aspects. I respect most of the Dalai Lama's work, but I do not view him as the Pope of Buddhism, and I disagree with his support of the oral polio vaccine campaign.

Caroline Osborne

I have 6 children, 4 now grown up. None have been vaccinated ever. They are far healthier than their friends who have been vaccinated, very rarely get ill at all, and never more than mildly. Between them they've had measles, whooping cough, chicken pox, scarlet fever, mumps. None of these illnesses caused any worries - a few days of mild sickness, a week or two holiday from school till all spots had cleared.

Quite apart from safety and effectiveness issues, vaccines for childhood illnesses are simply not necessary.

Tara Glenn

The Catholic Church encourages their members to advocate for safer vaccines without the use of fetal cells.

For K

You may be confusing the "whistleblower" William Thompson with Brian Hooker who worked to bring the matter to light.

K

also, this "whistleblower" has a child diagnosed with autism and is on the board of many anti-vaccination organizations. why was he working for the CDC working on immunization research if he was so against it?

K

I get questions like: What can I do when my doctor isn’t listening to me? Why is my doctor bullying me about this? What do I say if I don’t want all those shots? What should I bring to the appointment to prove what he’s saying about vaccines and autism is wrong?


Be assertive. Your doctor can't make you do anything. He or she is there to give you the best medical advice they have to offer.

Danchi

Vincent Iannelli, MD

@Danchi "Since the development of vaccines violates the ethics of Buddhism His Holiness most likely was not provided with all the facts."

Actually, I would think that letting someone die from a vaccine-preventable disease is what "violates the ethics of Buddhism."

*The Buddhist do not have the same trepidations about death as people in the West. His Holiness is an exceptionally wealthy man. He is a King. As King he has the wealth to financially care for all his fellow countrymen who live in poverty in India and in Tibet yet he doesn't, why? The Buddhist simply look at it as a persons karma. Hundreds of thousands of his countrymen/women/children live below the poverty level, are malnourished, many are not educated, suffer chronic health problems and many die from lack of medical care which he also does not pay for. Violations of Buddhist ethics-not from a cultural & spiritual perspective. People see this as an opportunity to make the best life they can, improve themselves spiritually so in their next life they will be reborn in a higher station. They see their current situation as consequences of their previous karma. So it doesn't violate Buddhist principles its a consequence of samsara.

Extremely few religions actually oppose vaccines. The idea that Buddhists, Muslims, Catholics, or the Amish, etc., oppose vaccines is a common anti-vaccine myth.

*Which Buddhist sects and vehicles are you referring to in you article? You mention Thai Buddhist but there are many different sects that follow different "vehicles". Even with the other religions you mention there are groups within the primary groups that follow different doctrines so you cannot say they all support vaccination.

*Policy wise and on paper, they probably do not oppose vaccination but they allow their membership to make their own health care decisions, as it should be. Considering how rabid and ill rational the pro-vaccine government has become, who would actually publicly state they are against coerced vaccination. Look at the attention Kenneth Copelands church in Texas received from the media for a outbreak of measles-ridiculous press coverage and misleading. First of all, its measles-not lethal. Second, the media focused on the unvaccinated members that contracted measles not bothering to wait and find out what strain the virus was, how many vaccinated members contracted measles, when were the church members vaccinated, how many vaccinated people contracted measles etc. The scrutiny was intense and way over the top for measles. The media, I'm sure on the orders of the CDC/pharmaceutical industry labeled Copelands church an anti-vaccine church which was a lie. The church received death threats, harassing, bullying for what? They made a public statement stating the church had no policy against vaccinations but to avail. The harassment continue. My point is this type of hysteria over juiced up media controlled propaganda has been going on for decades so most churches will publicly say one thing but encourages members to follow their path. Kind of like churches being non political on paper and in their doctrines but publicly they preach politics from the pulpit but they still maintain their tax exempt status. Stating one thing but actually doing another.

Thailand, for example, is mostly Buddhist and they have extremely high vaccination rates.
*Please provide references for this statement to confirm. My understanding, since the vaccine excipient became available online and many Buddhist discovered that there are animal products as well as aborted fetal cells in the vaccines, those who may have previous indulged have since taken exemptions. I know in the temple I attend many of the older members no longer take the Flu vaccine because of the ingredients. All you have to do is get online and read the vaccine industry trolls attacks on people who are just asking questions, would you go public with what you do for your family? Devout Buddhist by nature are very discreet and don't publicly discuss personal issues. Please provide specific data to substantiate your claim.

http://pediatrics.about.com/od/immunizations/a/religious-vaccine-exemptions.htm
*Yes, I read your Pediatrics article. It's all good to just state "outbreaks without going into details. Where is the information on the investigations that occur when there are outbreaks. It's easy to use the examples you have for the purpose of fear mongering and propaganda but the devil is always in the details. You assume for example that an outbreak occurred in a religious community but how do you know who is patient zero? Like the outbreak in NY that got so much media coverage until it was publicized that patient zero was a vaccinated young lady. When that came out much to do was made about the small children who had not been vaccinated despite the fact that a vaccinated person began the outbreak. Please provide investigative details on the outbreaks you have listed.

And while you might think that the Dalai Lama might be reduced to a political stunt, if you read his works, he is actually very pro-science, pro-medicine, and like most Buddhists, is pro-vaccine.

“If scientific analysis were conclusively to demonstrate certain claims in Buddhism to be false, then we must accept the findings of science and abandon those claims.”

*I saw the interview in which His Holiness's was asked a question specifically about KARMA-NOT SCIENCE. A reporter asked him if science proved that karma didn't exist what would he do and His Holiness stated we would stop teaching it immediately. He than smiled and asked the reporter "how would you do that?
He is exceptionally intelligent, pro-science, pro medicine and pro-choice meaning-people make their own health care choices. His giving a child or two the OPV was not a stunt. Do not put words in my mouth. It was genuine based on the information he was probably given by the half dozen advisers he has. Parents are not given information on vaccines by their Doctors which violates the Informed Consent laws so if it not inconceivable His Holiness was not provided with such information. He doesn't have children. None of advisers have children. Why would they think the WHO & Gates Foundation would lie about a little thing like a vaccine? Just because he's pro-science? If he was given the body of information that is available on the lack of science in the manufacturing, safety and effectiveness of vaccines I'm sure he would still tell people to make their own choice. Because it's their karma. At the same time, if he's giving out information that in the long run will hurt someone-its his karma.


Barry

Others may prefer to risk their child needing lifelong institutional care so as to avoid diseases.

**********

What kind of a parent would risk their child needing lifelong institutional care, for a vaccine that has never actually been proven to prevent chickenpox? or mumps? or measles?

Hera

Barry; good point.

IMO, it was a little shocking to see the response of doctors to hearing that the CDC deliberately hid data about the risk of lifelong disability caused by a vaccine.

The reaction seems to be "lying is fine" not "we should ensure our African American patients are informed about the 240 % increased chance of an autism diagnosis after the MMR."

Apparently using statistics to lie to patients is so okay it is not even worth a mention.

Medicine is about informed consent. And of course at the end of the day, the person who is going to be caring for a permanently brain damaged child/adult and/or potentially arranging for life time institutional care for a child who does become brain damaged from the vaccine, is not the doctor who gives them the shot.

They get to say " just a coincidence", walk away and give it to someone else.

That is why our legal system allows people with a personal vested interest to make their own health care choices.

And interestingly the choices doctors will make for others, studies have shown, are not the same choices that they will make for themselves.

When making choices for their own health care, doctors are far more likely to be focused on quality of life issues, rather than just survival issues.

Different people likely have different family histories regarding "rare" vaccine injury. And it seems that race could also influence the risk from the MMR.

And people do have religious views against vaccination.

For some people, with a high family risk of vaccine injury, a lifetime of normal health with the ability to interact fully with other people without debilitating gut pain, sensory pain, or epilepsy may be worth the small risk of catching a disease they aren't vaccinated against.

Others may prefer to risk their child needing lifelong institutional care so as to avoid diseases.

Linda1

Vincent,
Any religious leader who is pro vaccine does not understand the shoddy science behind vaccines - short term testing, lack of true placebo, rush to market, not tested for carcinogenicity or affect on fertility, no understanding of the affect on the human microbiome, little to no understanding of mechanism of action or of adverse reaction, often no reporting of negative results to avoid decreasing marketability, possible presence of viral or other contaminants (like the SV-40 that was in the polio vaccine given to millions of children after it was made from monkey kidneys, or the pig virus DNA that was discovered in the rotavirus vaccine more recently) etc. etc. etc. Then there is the question of foreign DNA from insects, animals, human fetal tissue that are intentional ingredients which the theologian may not be aware of - the Old Testament forbids mixing species.

Research just published a few weeks ago might interest you: "Human Fetal DNA Fragments In Vaccines Are A Possible Cause For Autism – According To This Stanford Scientist" http://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/09/05/human-fetal-dna-fragments-in-vaccines-are-a-possible-cause-for-autism-according-to-this-stanford-scientist/ . Quote from the article:

"A common misconception is that the “anti vaccination” crowd does not understand science. Truth is, a large portion of the “anti vaccination” crowd are scientists, PhD’s, and professors."

And of course, there are the adverse reactions that are deliberately under reported so no one knows the true short or long term risk involved in injecting a child (or adult) with these concoctions. The healthy 12 year old girl in Wisconsin who died within hours of her HPV vaccine is a case in point - the medical establishment has denied that the vaccine could have anything to do with the child's death - and they wonder why people aren't making as many appointments as they used to.

Barry

The Dalai Lama is a celibate monk, who has no children.

Vincent Iannelli, MD

@Danchi "Since the development of vaccines violates the ethics of Buddhism His Holiness most likely was not provided with all the facts."

Actually, I would think that letting someone die from a vaccine-preventable disease is what "violates the ethics of Buddhism."

Extremely few religions actually oppose vaccines. The idea that Buddhists, Muslims, Catholics, or the Amish, etc., oppose vaccines is a common anti-vaccine myth.

Thailand, for example, is mostly Buddhist and they have extremely high vaccination rates.

http://pediatrics.about.com/od/immunizations/a/religious-vaccine-exemptions.htm

And while you might think that the Dalai Lama might be reduced to a political stunt, if you read his works, he is actually very pro-science, pro-medicine, and like most Buddhists, is pro-vaccine.

“If scientific analysis were conclusively to demonstrate certain claims in Buddhism to be false, then we must accept the findings of science and abandon those claims.”

Rae

I would expect the Dalai Lama to be pro-vaccine: he has strong ties to the United Nations which pushes this pernicious agenda with generous help from the deep pockets of the Gates' and others of their ilk.

The Dalai Lama is revered as a symbol of peace, light and love. The details are best left to the individual.

Autismmom

I think parents who are interested in CDC activities on vaccines should closely follow the ACIP meetings. Public comments are accepted. One interesting topic discussed at the Feb. 2014 meeting and one that will continue to be discussed at the next meeting on October 29-30, 2014 is the CDC Childhood Immunization schedule.

The CDC childhood immunization schedule was on ACIPs agenda relevant to a recent parent survey where some of the parents said they were delaying or foregoing certain vaccines, and not adhering to the CDC schedule.

Rather than addressing the reasons for the parents concerns, ACIP members reacted to the survey by turning to the pros and cons of offering alternate immunization schedules. Some thought changing the schedule would be too confusing. Clearly ACIP members goal in offering alternatives is to achieve compliance.

Several options were discussed including offering alternate schedule to "high risk" groups such as Native Americans and Native Alaskans. The discussion however turned to offering MORE vaccines to this high risk sub population not less.

Parental concerns about the number and frequency of shots as expressed in the survey were virutally ignored in the discussion. To me this shows the huge disconnect between this committees and the population they are suppose to serve.

We tend to focus on people like Coleen Boyle and Poul Thorsen but we should pay more attention to ACIP meetings. ACIP is a critical player in establishing the immunization schedule,which vaccines make it on the schedule and setting vaccine policy in the US and are making decisions that affect the health and well being of every American.

ACIP Meeting minutes, Feb 2014; see pages 75-83

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/min-archive/min-2014-02.pdf

an Excerpt:

"A cross-sectional internet-based survey of a nationally representative sample of parents of children 6 months through 6 years of age found that more than 1 of 10 parents of young children currently use an alternative vaccination schedule, non-black race and not having a regular provider were associated with increased odds of alternative schedule, a large proportion of parents currently following the recommended schedule seem to be “at risk” for switching to an alternative schedule, 28% believed that delaying vaccine doses was safer than the schedule they used, and 22% disagreed that the best schedule to follow is the one recommended by the experts. This study also found that among parents who reported refusing some vaccines, 31% refused PCV. Among parents who reported delaying some vaccines, 10% delayed PCV to older age than recommended. Among parents who prolonged dosing intervals for some vaccines, 33% did so for PCV [Dempsey et al Pediatrics 2011].

Overall, the studies on parental acceptance of vaccines reviewed support the following conclusions:

□ The majority of parents surveyed adhere to and do not have concerns about the recommended schedule.
□ Parent decisions do lead to delays (13%-25%) or refusals (6%-10%) for one or more recommended vaccine doses.
□ Parents who delay and refuse vaccine doses are more likely to have concerns about vaccine safety or multiple injections at each visit
□ Parents who follow the recommended schedule also report exhibiting doubts and have considered alternative schedules or refusing vaccine doses in the future.
□ It is unclear whether removing a PCV dose at 6 months (2+1) or 12-15 months (3+0) will help reduce refusals or delays of other recommended vaccines."
75

The next ACIP meeting is October 29-30, 2014-
here is the DRAFT agenda:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/agenda-archive/agenda-2014-10.pdf

Danchi

Vincent Iannelli, MD
Did you know that the Dalai Lama is pro-vaccine?

When it comes to His Holiness, political issues are very complicated and he has always made every effort to avoid them. Given the fact that he was driven out of Tibet and the Indian Government has allowed him to live there it would not be in his best interest to antagonize them. Since the development of vaccines violates the ethics of Buddhism His Holiness most likely was not provided with all the facts. He probably is simply trusting the official position statements concerning vaccine safety and effectiveness put out by organizations like the Global Polio Eradication Initiative.

Even so, if he believes the propaganda, in his talks he has always told people to be true to themselves and believe in themselves not an authority-including him. He quoted at an event this :

“Now, Kalamas, don’t go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, ‘This contemplative is our teacher.’ When you know for yourselves that, ‘These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness’ — then you should enter & remain in them. Kalama Sutta

Multiple meanings: Traditions are not to be followed simply because they are traditions. Reports are not to be followed simply because the source seems reliable.

The Dalia Lama has always encouraged critical thinking and commons sense. He has often said he does not expect people to do or not do something simply because he says so. (paraphrased) Things are not as simply as they seem.

cia parker

Dr. Iannelli,
Those are crazy dangerous vaccines on the Danish schedule, and I would not recommend that any parent folow it. Infanrix, seven-in-one? That's insanity! DTaP, Hib, Prevnar, MMR, HPV? You can't be serious! I recommend that parents read Dr. Eisenstein's Make an Informed Vaccine Decision for the Life of Your Child. Also Neustaedter's The Vaccine Guide and Aviva Jill Romm's Vaccines. They sort of recommend the Hib vaccine, so I would add to read Fraser's The Peanut Allergy Epidemic (caused in one in fifty American children now by the Hib vaccine) before they make any decisions.

Jeannette Bishop

Trying again, to put what I was trying to say more succinctly, is there an addictive rush to the act of applying a poison as a solution because one is so "intelligent," "skilled," fill-in-the-blank-whatever to bring about something "good?"

Maybe getting closer, if the disease "solution" didn't involve some level of harm, but some of us still "neglectfully" opted out of taking advantage of it or just presented our adverse outcomes, would so many bother to push it with such means?

Vincent Iannelli, MD

@cmo
1) Get hold of the Denmark vaccine schedule and use that on trips to the pediatrician. Decide what vaccine (vaccines?) you want ahead of time.

In Denmark, they give DTaP, IPV, Hib, HepB, Prevnar 13, MMR, and HPV.

They also use the Infranix vaccine, which protects against seven vaccine preventable diseases in one shot - diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, polio, Hib, and hepatitis B, and they get that vaccine, also with Prevnar 13 at 3, 5, and 12 months.

Are you going to follow that immunization schedule?

The immunization schedules in most other countries are not that much different than our own, and mostly reflect differences in rates and risks of some vaccine-preventable diseases, like chicken pox, rotavirus, and hepatitis A. Many countries have started giving these vaccines too and are close to matching our vaccine schedule now. Many even give extra vaccines that we don't, like BCG, Japanese encephalitis, and MenC.

Jeannette Bishop

Thank you! Such good advice about and in the comments below.

Regarding Danchi's observations, particularly #2, "Power and control issues," I've wondered about the preferred use of pharmaceuticals, sometimes with minimal value and a long list of side effects, and the use of other harmful substances in our culture.

Is there potential for addiction to an act of using a substance known to be a poison, in an arena of "science," "training," "intelligence," "skill," and/or "authority" to bring about a change? Does the tendency to overrate benefits and underrate costs of such substances, like vaccines, and the tendency to dismissing alternatives, often lie not so much in not having better options, or even in some level of awareness of profit from all the "side-effects," but in an unrecognized preference to initiate a "solution" that simply carries more of a risk?

Vincent Iannelli, MD

@Jon Marathon 'I prefer to stick to this advice from the Buddha: "But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."'

Did you know that the Dalai Lama is pro-vaccine?

Danchi

If you are reading this article and this website than you have some insights into the world of coerced vaccination. You can have all the information in the world-it won't matter to the Dr. Two things are going on with him/her: 1. you are invading his/her comfort zone. They have been indoctrinated since med school that vaccines work, are safe,have no side effects other than a little temp, tender arm/leg and child may cry a bit. Nothing else can manifest from a vaccine so if a child experiences a vaccine reaction, the Dr. will never see because they can't. Too much relies on them not believing OR seeing. 2.Power and control issues. There has got to be a power trip making decisions that affects directly the lives of others and to have parents do what you tell them to do. Vaccines are a multibillion dollar industry and they, be it small in comparison, get a piece of the pie. Parents telling them NO challenges their power and messes with their money. So you can take all the studies, journal articles, vaccine pkg. inserts, youtube videos etc. It's the same reason the CDC scientist continue to lie about the vaccine-autism connection: Profit, greed, arrogance, denial, control of all information, and protection of careers are the reasons the system continues to operate. There are too many with too much to lose if the truth should be known.

Every time you are attacked by a vaccine bully, shrill or troll know this: You are the parent and that empowers you to make the best decisions in regards to the health and well being in the best interest of your child. Not what someone else thinks is the best interest. Stand firm in your parenting power. These people have an agenda and most of them get paid for posting so you trying to engage in meaningful dialogue isn't happening. You know what a Boondoggle is? It's a time suck-this is all they want to do. Take up your time. No other point. If you feel compelled to engage, out them as a troll or shrill and tell them what troll tactics they are using:http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22651&p=245119&hilit=25+Rules+of+Disinfo+8+Traits+of+Disinfo+Artist#p245119. Don't give them the opportunity to put out misinformation therefore confusing people who are still trying to make their way through the muck and mud of this issue.

Very Important: If a Doctor or office staff member gives you a vaccine exemption form or you get one from your state government website don't sign it. The form the Doctor has is most likely from the AAP which has a self incriminating clause in it. Most state form have a similar clause in them that's self incriminating. My state put this sentence in the wavier:
By signing this wavier, you acknowledge that you are placing your child and others at risk of serious illness should he or she contract a disease that could have been prevented through proper vaccination. The form was revised March 31, 2014.

There is no law that states you cannot create your own. Here is a format: http://www.vaclib.org/legal/donotsign.htm.

Jon Marathon

To me the most important issue is informed consent. People have a right to ask questions and get all the facts about all medical treatments before they get them for themselves or their children; vaccinations are no different. In fact, I would say it's a moral obligation, especially to our children. Doctors & the media focus too much on trying to scare us with how devastating the diseases can be, but they don't do the same with the vaccines, usually claiming severe adverse reactions are extremely rare. But there are two parts to informed consent, and the consent part is just as important. Vaccines are the only medical treatments that have been mandated by law, based on the idea of the greater good. This is a philosophical and ethical issue over which there's a lot of disagreement, but state, provincial, and national governments have decided they know what's best for the health of their citizens.

The science that vaccine policy decisions is based on consists mostly of population studies. Sure, vaccines may be generally safe and effective for the population (although even that is questionable, given the rise of autoimmune diseases and the increasing toxic load we all carry), but no one can deny that vaccines have harmed thousands of people. If they do, they're lying and have no credibility. I prefer to stick to this advice from the Buddha: "But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." It's not enough for vaccines to be for the greater good; they must be good for all people--the stakes are just too high.

I just don't get into arguments with bullies or trolls. I make sure all my facts are right, make my point, provide a reference from a peer reviewed journal if possible, and move on. I'm never going to change the mind of a troll, and they're not going to change mine.

cmo

How to Deal with a Vaccine Bully

1) Get hold of the Denmark vaccine schedule and use that on trips to the pediatrician. Decide what vaccine (vaccines?) you want ahead of time.

2) Some parents get confused upon why their infant is given a ...prostitute, IV drug user vaccine... on the day they are born... from there....

Ask your doctor why the first ....two or three doses... of nearly ...every vaccine... do not work.

Ask if they have $30,000 to $50,000 worth of vaccines on hand that they are trying to market.


3) SIDS deaths in the US peak at 2-4 months. Lets see... 8 doses of vaccines at two months 8 doses at 4 months.

The CDC refuses to perform a simple study to determine if SIDS deaths are clustered near multi-vaccine "well baby visits."

Watch this clip with your doctor or nurse in his office. Perhaps play if for the entire waiting room.

@ 3:15 Dr. Janet Levitan / SIDS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3IMSUApeW4


4) The flu shot... Perhaps 2% of Americans get the flu, with the flu shot you might drop that to 1%. The test to determine what ...flu virus is going around... is about $800 and is seldom performed.

There has never been any "herd immunity" with only 30% of the population getting the flu shot each year. There are about 200 flu viruses in the USA.


5) Lots of good information here... stay away from anything with item (6)

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/programs/vfc/awardees/vaccine-management/price-list/index.html#pediatric

Jenny Allan

I endorse Anita Donnelly's advice about cutting and pasting your own comment material. If you are really organised, keep separate internet files on different aspects of the topic. (I'm afraid I'm not too good at this differentiation. All my vaccine stuff seems to have ended up in the 'Wakefield' file, even so , it's easily retrievable for including in comments, letters to politicians etc).

Also, sympathetic or informative news articles should be kept. These are often censored like that recent mainstream press release on US Pertussis outbreaks, now reduced to little more than a paragraph. AoA commenter Faith asks on another thread if anyone managed to capture the original article?

Here's what was left of the original article. The 'message' is still very clear, and gives me hope, particularly since HuffPo (which also published this -and was similarly truncated), in now apparently brave enough to publish a few unbiased vaccine articles:-

http://lockerdome.com/6616974625082689/7000261935772948
"Whooping Cough Outbreaks: Correlation Not the Same as Causality:-

The outbreak of pertussis, or "whooping cough," in California this year (about 8,000 cases so far) has again spawned countless articles in newspapers throughout the United States blaming the unvaccinated community for the outbreak. The headlines provide a sense of the obvious bias. Headlines such as " Did Poor Vaccine Response Contribute to California's Whooping Cough Outbreak?" in WIRED, or " Anti-Vaccination Beliefs are Contagious Like a Disease" in The Washington Post. The bias is a troubling one because it is based on the assumption that correlation is the same as causality."

Anita Donnelly

This is such a masterpiece!
I just want to say now that we have the whistleblowers confirmation,
We need to say "those who will not accept" or "admit" the autism vaccine link. Not "those who will not believe in" the autism vaccine link. This is not a belief. Vaccines always being safe is a belief. Vaccines never harming anyone is a disproven theory. Autism causing vaccines is a tragic fact. The fact that they try to slam us by saying we don't "believe" in vaccinating proves that is a religion not a science. I don't believe in the God of Injecting Heavy Metals because the fact is that causes autism and God and genetics (take your pick) made my child with a beautiful working braiin and a healthy immune system. "Dr, your outmoded belief that mercury aluminum etc is fine to forcibly inject Into pregnant women and babies has caused one in twenty of the families in your practice unspeakable harm. "

One other tip. Online. Hold some of your best stuff or cut and paste it into a file for later cut and pasting to save time -- they do that's why they say the same thing over and over. . . Go back days later and add a comment. The paid trolls go back so that their comments are dominating the debate since latest shows up on top. It is great to point this out --"gosh that anti-safety anti-medical-consumer-rights spokeswoman came back days later and added all this repeated stuff up here.. Weird. If you scroll down you will see she simply repeats stuff she had posts two days ago --hmmm she has nothing else to do --there is a paid job where people are paid to promote medical products on social media. I am motivated by an ethical obligation to witness what happened to my child. I don't make a dime from this. I can't fathom what else she is motivated by since her posts are so hostile to me and won't even acknowledge the pain my child has had. She follows me wherever I post and never actually discusses this she just attacks me and others who are describing what happened to us. My motivation is to save other families from what I saw with my own eyes, which cost our family hundreds of thousands to turn around. All because of a shot that didn't work anyhow. Her motivation is to sell more shots. Think about it. The more harmful a product is the more you have to spend on marketing , and advertising. Thank you. I have to get back to taking my child to therapy. No more time to answer stuff go here (insert your favorite link) for more information. Thank you for listening. "

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