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Hazards of Nasal Flu Vaccine as Program is Rolled Out in British Schools

UpdateBy John Stone

This is an update of my article ‘UK Department of Health Deliberately Exposes Vulnerable Population to Flu Infection’ of May last year as the British government rolls out the program to entire school population this autumn (a product called Fluenz identical with Flumist used in the US). Recent  draft minutes of the government advisory committee, the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation, show it to be in a double-bind over asthma cases and uncertain about egg allergy: “extrapolating findings on injectable vaccines to Fluenz® was problematic as nasal administration may be a more reactogenic route than intramuscular injection". (See HERE.) They will still be testing this with program in full gear.

The other problem they have is that the vaccine is “contraindicated for severe asthma” so they have to devise formal guidelines for which asthma sufferers should have the vaccine and which should not, but it begs the problem that the more severely affected asthma sufferers will be exposed to the viruses (which they might well not otherwise have come into contact with) by their schoolmates shedding them, turning on the head the proposition that they are protecting the vulnerable by vaccinating the fit. While the ethical problem is not stated it surely hovers silently above their deliberations and calls into question the very principles of the program (other than making lots of money for someone). The relevant portions of the text of the JCVI minutes follow that of my article as originally published.


UK Department of Health Deliberately Exposes Vulnerable Population to Flu Infection

Dice no yes maybeBy John Stone, first published on 10 May, 2013

Is the vaccine program there to prevent harm or to foist commercial products on a captive market at the public expense? The parrot cry of health officials trying to bully citizens into vaccinating is that they are putting other people at risk, but it is very easy to call their bluff when they pursue a contradictory policy over nasal flu vaccine and children, a vaccine which sheds and will put in harm's way immune-compromised people and younger siblings. From September this year in the United Kingdom children above the age of two are to be offered a nasal influenza vaccine ‘Fluenz’ which is the same as  the ‘Flumist’ many American children already get, and this is to be rolled out for all schoolchildren next year.  Here is the text of my recent letter to the British Medical Journal, so far unpublished:

It is deeply disturbing that this senseless project ploughs forward regardless. While government seems to have seized the agenda over influenza vaccination by unwarranted claims of (influenza) mortality [1,2] there are definable risks to the use of nasal influenza vaccine. Manufacturer's product information states among other things [3]:

"FLUENZ should not be administered to children and adolescents with severe asthma or active wheezing because these individuals have not been adequately studied in clinical studies.
"Do not administer FLUENZ to infants and toddlers younger than 12 months. In a clinical study, an increase in hospitalisations was observed in infants and toddlers younger than 12 months after vaccination (see section 4.8).

"Vaccine recipients should be informed that FLUENZ is an attenuated live virus vaccine and has the potential for transmission to immunocompromised contacts. Vaccine recipients should attempt to avoid, whenever possible, close association with severely immunocompromised individuals (e.g. bone marrow transplant recipients requiring isolation) for 1-2 weeks following vaccination. Peak incidence of vaccine virus recovery occurred 2-3 days post-vaccination in clinical studies. In circumstances where contact with severely immunocompromised individuals is unavoidable, the potential risk of transmission of the influenza vaccine virus should be weighed against the risk of acquiring and transmitting wild-type influenza virus."

Children could therefore become a mass hazard to immunocompromised people, younger siblings etc.  Moreover, given the poor record of anticipating which influenza virus strains would otherwise proliferate [4], this could expose people unnecessarily to virus strains they would otherwise not encounter. The wisdom and ethics of this seem dubious, particularly with health officials for ever insisting that we need to vaccinate to protect other people this is manifestly a self-contradictory, not to say absurd, exercise.

  [1] John Stone, 'Re: Author's response' 26 December 2009,

[2] John Stone, 'Discrepancies in published data' 2 February 2010,

[3] Annex I, Summary of product characteristic (Fluenz)

[4] Jefferson T, Di Pietrantonj C, Rivetti A, Bawazeer GA, Al-Ansary LA, Ferroni E.,
'Vaccines for preventing influenza in healthy adults'
Check lists and consent forms published the United States government and associated bodies present a remarkable list of issues which ought to be addressed before the decision to administer this vaccine is given. The very project of mass administration -  say 10 million young people in a population of just over 60 million – poses the question of good sense. Here is an example from Immunize Action Coalition (which is funded by the Centers for Disease Control)):

1. Is the person to be vaccinated sick today?
2. Does the person to be vaccinated have an allergy to eggs or to a component of the influenza vaccine?
3. Has the person to be vaccinated ever had a serious reaction to intranasal influenza vaccine (FluMist) in the past?
4. Does the person to be vaccinated have a long-term health problem with heartdisease, lung disease, asthma, kidney disease, neurologic or neuromuscular disease, liver disease, metabolic disease (e.g., diabetes), or anemia or another blood disorder?
5. If the person to be vaccinated is a child age 2 through 4 years, in the past 12 months, has a healthcare provider ever told you that he or she had wheezing or asthma?
6. Does the person to be vaccinated have cancer, leukemia, HIV/AIDS, or any otherimmune system problem; or, in the past 3 months, have they taken medications that weaken the immune system, such as cortisone, prednisone, other steroids, or anticancer drugs; or have they had radiation treatments?
7. Is the person to be vaccinated receiving antiviral medications?
8. Is the child or teen to be vaccinated receiving aspirin therapy or aspirin-containing therapy?
9. Is the person to be vaccinated pregnant or could she become pregnant within the next month?
10. Has the person to be vaccinated ever had Guillain-Barré syndrome?
11. Does the person to be vaccinated live with or expect to have close contact with a person whose immune system is severely compromised and who must be in protective isolation (e.g., an isolation room of a bone marrow transplant unit)?
12. Has the person to be vaccinated received any other vaccinations in the past 4 weeks?

However, with ten million children and young people out there how much care will be taken over this?  How will people even know about the medical vulnerability of all the people these children will come into contact with (what about chance encounters)?  How will children of compromised health be protected in schools from the recently vaccinated?

Would it not actually be infinitely wiser not do it at all?


From the Draft Minutes of the UK Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) June 4, 2014

 VII. Flu Use of LAIV in egg allergic individuals

38. A presentation on the results of the SNIFFLE study on the safety of Live Attenuated Intranasal Vaccines (LAIV) in individuals with egg allergy was provided for the Committee by Dr Mich ErlewynLajeunesse. The Committee noted that:

• an ovalbumin content of less than 0.12 micrograms per ml for injectable flu vaccines was considered low and safe for egg allergic individuals;

• Fluenz® was licensed with an ovalbumin content of 0.12 micrograms per ml but that data provided by AstraZeneca from batch testing ovalbumin content showed wide variation, although the majority of batches were below the 0.12 micrograms low ovalbumin cut off;

• batches used in the Sniffle study had undetectable levels of ovalbumin;

• data on safety of low ovalbumin content flu vaccines came from studies on injectable vaccine and only one study had looked at the safety above the 0.12 low ovalbumin cut off;

• extrapolating findings on injectable vaccines to Fluenz® was problematic as nasal administration may be a more reactogenic route than intramuscular injection; and

• a second study was planned for the 2014/15 flu season which would involve the use of Fluenz® with detectable ovalbumin content, if available.

39. The chair requested that AstraZeneca be contacted as to whether they could consistently produce low ovalbumin content batches which could be selected for the UK programme and would better reflect the data being accumulated by the SNIFFLE studies Action: Secretariat to contact AstraZeneca on the consistency of ovalbumin content in Fluenz®. Advice

40. The Committee concluded that until the results of the second SNIFFLE study were available, no firm conclusion could be made on the safety of Fluenz® use in egg allergic individuals and current advice in the Green Book on the use of Fluenz in egg allergic individuals should remain. However, the data presented were encouraging in the context of low ovalbumin content vaccines as used in the first SNIFFLE study. Definition – Asthma as a contraindication for Fluenz

41. The Chair noted that immunisation teams delivering vaccinations in a school environment had found it challenging to interpret Green Book guidance about severe asthma being a contraindication to use of LAIV. Current guidance was that those children on British Thoracic Society (BTS) step 4 or above should not receive LAIV, but it had proven difficult to obtain information to make an informed decision on whether the child was BTS Step 4 or above in a school setting. 42. The Committee noted:

• the SPC for Fluenz states it is contraindicated for severe asthma without giving a definition and that BTS Step 4 was chosen as the definition to use in the Green Book;

• advice from an expert in respiratory paediatrics, indicated a cut off of 800mcg for the inhaled steroid budesonide or equivalent could be used as a guideline to distinguish between mild to moderate asthma and severe asthma

• 800mcg or more of budesonide (or equivalent) was the official definition of severe asthma;

• maintenance oral steroids would likely be too high a level of severity;

• expert advice that a clinical definition such as ‘recent admission’ or ‘under the care of a respiratory physician’ without reference to dosage criteria would indicate a sign of acute exacerbation rather than asthma severity.

43. The Committee supported the reasoning that as many asthmatic children as possible, children who are at a higher risk than healthy children from the consequences of influenza infection, should receive Fluenz which offers greater protection than the injectable vaccines in children. The Committee agreed that the definition should be:

“The live attenuated influenza vaccine (Fluenz Tetra®) is not recommended for children with: − a history of active wheezing at the time of vaccination (until at least 7 days after wheezing has stopped) or − who are currently taking or have been prescribed oral steroids in the last 14 days for an exacerbation of asthma or − who are currently taking a high dose inhaled steroid - Budesonide > 800 mcg/day or equivalent* (e.g. Fluticasone > 500 mcg/day) because of limited safety data in these groups. * In children aged 5-12 years, the definition  of severe asthma corresponds to the British Thoracic Society BTS Sign Step 5.

John Stone is UK Editor for Age of Autism.


Matt Benjamin

We live in the UK, my son has never had any vaccines. I see no one has really provided any information of how one would legally stand if removing a child from school during the shedding period. I am not a lawyer but am very interested in knowing my rights particularly if I see it compromising the immune system of my child.

I always send a 'notice of conditional acceptance' to the school or governing body getting them to accept full liability for any adverse effects or death that may arise. I am sure there is info online how to write conditional acceptance however I basically state that I will send my child to school whilst vaccination is taking place or even allow my child to be vaccinated as long as someone with any higher standing at the school or governing body is willing to accept full responsibility for any adverse effects or death. NO ONE will take that bet.

Switch the liability to them and see how they like it up them if they want to play forceful control games. Good luck.


I want to take my son out of school post fluenz immunisations for two weeks because I have done my homework and don't want to risk him getting the vaccine or contracting the flu through the shedding of his peers. He is 5 and he has a reoccurring bronchial condition that put him in hospital 2 years ago. His father is immune compromised after being vaccine damaged with the hepatitis vaccine 7 years ago. I have written to the head teacher requesting a leave of absence but it has been decline. I will not put my son in the school regardless but cannot afford the fines or risk of prosecution. What legal rights do I have? Is anyone else in a similar position? Please help!

Angus Files

H a good quality vit a capsule or liquid helps the immune system, high broccoli amount's on the plate boost the immune system. We keep them off the day they have/had the vaccines last year,and 3 kids from another family joined my 2 who are usually the only ones not having it..what will it be this year?



Keep them out of crowds and schools until they are much older, possibly until adulthood. Sorry.


According to the EMC under 2 year olds shouldn't be vaccinated because a high proportion had to be hospitalised after 6 weeks with vomiting and diarrhea. My kids didn't have the nasal flu vaccine, caught the flu within days of other kids getting vaccinated and then both had vomiting and diarrhea on and off for 2 months. What am I meant to do this year?

Angus Files

The kids came home today with the new forms for consent,as all of Scotland kids are being "offered" flu mist..roll up everyone a party not to be missed..that's the tone..


Jeannette Bishop

I can't answer Rimland Fan's question, but his/her comment had me looking more at Flumist and I noticed that some trials used a Sucrose-Phosphate-Glutamate (AF-SPG) placebo. Does anyone know anything about this "placebo?"

I have been noticing some kind of early flu season nasal, sinus irritation the past couple of years that doesn't seem to progress like I typically expect a cold or flu bug to, but does seem to take a day or two to clear and have been wondering if this is from the use of nasal flu vaccination in my neighborhood (but could be any number of things). I don't actually know if they are using the vaccine here, but we do have some level of in-out air travel that tends to bring a lot of infections here in waves.

I also don't think anything reduces the general severity of "flu season" in our community. It seems that possibly things are worse, as we've been seeing flu vaccine promotions pop up at every pharmacy. Something pretty severe still makes the rounds about three different periods during in the fall-winter and often also at the beginning of summer (I think possibly because the heat becomes quite taxing here, and it starts driving more people inside, away from natural vitamin D perhaps).

Rimland Fan

The FluMist live nasal vaccine is the driving force behind the epidemic numbers of kids who got PANS. I am sure of it and have been trying to sound the alarm since 2010.

PANDAS- triggered by strep- is a piece of cake when compared to PANS. I can't believe a popular "pandas" author actually advises parents to immunize the kids for the flu! As a result of constant re-exposure to classmates shedding the FluMist that his immune system can no longer fight off, my son no longer is able to even attend school.

Does anyone know if there's a lab test to see which strains and measure titers on the FluMist/H1N1 ? (if so, please post)


The folks given this drug need to wear a button or arm band designating them as carriers. My son had his daughter in day care in Chicago last year and the FluMist was being pushed because for children-no needles. The day care strongly recommended it but it was not mandatory so, according to what my son calculated by talking to other parents-more than half took the FluMist including the entire staff. My sons' family didn't but they may as well have. From October to when they moved back home to Michigan the three of them had runny noses, nagging coughs, red eyes-all the symptoms of a cold the entire winter into spring. End of May to today is the first time they have all been symptom free. My son and his wife would argue over vaccines because she grew up as a military child and Dad made sure the family was vaccinated and my son, well is like me-not believing the hype. She now has to rethink her beliefs in the power of the vaccine. She has a PHD in Astronomy and that's a hard shift for a scientist who has been indoctrinated all her life in the myth.

Like I implied in my other comment-maybe there is a plan. With the CDC anthrax spill and other lab breeches, Ebola breaking out in Africa, a possible plague outbreak in China and media stories about the coming Flu season could equal the 1918 Spanish Flu in terms of the death toll, the climate is ripe for pushing vaccines. Not only FluMist but all vaccines.
I just read an article:
Adults should get vaccinations to live longer, feel better, 'help others in community,' says UAB doctor:

The good Dr. recommends:
Vaccines adults may need
-Tetanus, diphtheria and whooping cough
-Measles, mumps, chicken pox, hepatitis

As my kids like to say, something is voodoo. Stay tuned.

Jeannette Bishop


Adults are harder to be labelled "born with it" when their health regresses (though the industry still tries--I'm flummoxed at how many let them claim Alzheimer's is genetic, 1 in 3 seniors have genes just waiting to attack their minds at the appropriate time?). There may also be risk (or awareness?) accumulation with the practice of an annual injection that lends to the chance a connection and VAERS report will be made?

Dr. Suzanne Humphries's experience with a hospital vaccinating her kidney patients when admitted as a new standard practice for all patients also comes to mind. When their problems were exacerbated (one of her patients died), her concerns and requests to defer vaccination were ignored, even though she was the specialist. They may be vaccinating more here in the U.S. who do not have the health to tolerate the vaccine than in the past. Whatever is going on, the documented "benefits" are so weak, some level of apathy or fanaticism or bizarre mixture seems to be involved.

John Stone


But protecting those too young to be vaccinated is pretty much the only rationale for instance for whooping cough vaccine. Truth is they don't really give a stuff.


Anne J.

The latest CDC poll coincidentally seems to be focused on the flu vaccine and autism/asthma. I seem to be on some list where I get called more than the average, person for these "random surveys" (which I have stopped participating in). I was recently told I'd be contacted for a "follow up autism survey" because my son was on the spectrum and also has a history of asthma. When the person called back for the "CDC asthma survey", I asked if he meant "autism". After a long, awkward pause, he said, "no this is an asthma survey" yet proceeded to jump in with questions regarding whether or not my "child on the spectrum has had any flu vaccines, including nasal flu vaccinations". Not sure what else they were fishing for (I didn't continue), but it definitely seemed to be an autism-related survey that they were trying to pass off as just asthma-related. I believe the CDC is fully aware of the damage they are causing. I hope someday they are held accountable.

John Stone


Yes, it is simply the same product only with a different name in Europe.



If FLUENZ is similar to the FluMist distributed in the US than there is a bigger problem because of viral vaccine shedding for the next 28 days-possibly longer. Government health dept. think it's easier to persuade people to take this and have their children take it because it has no thimerosal but:
"At least one vaccine strain was isolated from 80% of FluMist recipients; strains were recovered from 1-28 days post vaccination"

"The duration of FluMist vaccine virus replication and shedding have not been established"

In other words, people who take FluMist become contagious with influenza. This is important because FluMist is pushed on children, teachers, hospital workers, first responders, and others who are in close contact situations. How many people receiving FluMist will avoid contact with immunocompromised individuals for at least 3 weeks? How do they even know who to avoid? FLUENZ, I assume will have the same issues.

Will FLUENZ have similar ingredients as the Flumist?
-Egg allantoic fluid — the part of "egg whites" containing allantoin and used to culture the live viruses; formaldehyde is added to weaken the viruses.

*Sucrose — a disaccharide (glucose + fructose); if it gets directly into the blood it can wreak havoc on the immune system.

*Potassium phosphate — See phosphate buffers; likely to intensify excitotoxicity brought on by MSG.

*Monosodium glutamate (MSG) — a potent excitotoxin. When FluMist is squirted up into sinus cavities, the MSG will be mobilize quickly into the brain causing random neurons to fire uncontrollably.

Gentamicin sulfate -- a broad-spectrum antibiotic derived from an actinomycete.

Will they ask people if they are allergic to eggs or have an issue with MSG as I do. MSG has sent me to the ER many times over the years with out of control migraines, plummeting blood pressure, hot & cold chills, body temp that won't register because it's so low, simultaneous diarrhea & vomiting. Will this even be recognized as MSG related and related to the Fluenz? This probably has happened with some people because other vaccines have MGS in them. Because it's inhaled and is not subject to the actions of the digestion process as with food, it has direct access to the brain. Not good at all.

Is there informed consent in Britain? Probably wouldn't matter. In February of this year the high school where my daughter teaches had a health fair and were giving Flu Shots so I sat in the classroom and watched. The only informed consent provided was a piece of paper with small print that was hard to read. This was given to people as they sat in the chair, rolled up their sleeves and when done was left on the desk. Probably will be the same in Britain. I have a feeling this is not going to turn out well and guess who will be blamed-the unvaccinated. So do you think that maybe this is the plan in the first place?


We have leaders that lead against infectious diseases, but it has never really been about protecting the vulnerable. They vaccinate everyone regardless and that is proof that it is not about protecting the vulnerable.

Further proof of this, is that there are no protocols given or taught to doctors of who should and should not be vaccinated.

Additional there are no punishment or recourse if doctors do not follow what few guidelines that is suggested for vaccinating. Instead they are rewarded for vaccinating indiscriminately, and often. This part of medicine - these government agencies are owned not by us the people that pay the taxes -- the public, but by the people that sell medicine - the vaccines. .

The CDC ambulance plane left last night to go to Africa to pick up the missionary Doctor and Nurse, that is if they are able to travel; for they are deathly ill with the Ebola virus. I feel for them -as I do for everyone else in Africa that has this disease.

Years ago they traced the Ebola to a cave -- years ago - and finally to bats. If they can trace it to a cave what took 'em so long to trace it to bats? It turns out that bats carry the virus as their natural flora. It was not air borne - the virus was contracted by slaughter and butcher.

Native African People were selling these bats to eat at the market. On top of that chimps and monkeys will eat meat if the opportunity comes along. So a monkey in the wilds catch a bat in this area around this cave -- well Africans eat monkeys too. Poverty in Africa drives the Ebola and other diseases. The poverty of Africa cannot all be blamed on limited resources of that region can it? It has to be much more about political -situations - it usually is. Most of the time it is about having leaders that are self centered -- a good leader must put others first; and if those leaders are not controlled by more powerful nations.

We have our own leaders that leads when it comes to this microbe world. We do not vote for them, but we sure pay ad pay, and pay - not only with paper money but with something that is really too high a price -- and that is with our own heart's blood.

These leaders are Smart like Tom Insel , for he graduated from college as a tiny baby - and had to travel the world and enjoy himself before he got to be a big time doctor -and to lead the western world in its fight against autism.

But a good leader is more than that -and we all know it.
And that is where we are -- we have a government that the public can control; but under that government there has sprouted sub- underground tyrant that we cannot control.

And so we are given flu vaccines that can spread disease - that according to studies - would not be the flu that was going to come around this year anyway.

Angus Files

As last year when the Pharma Drs,pushers, or whoever it is that is peddling the flu poison to the kids kids will be off school..

Thanks John for the annual my answers at the ready


John Stone


Worth mentioning that the bulk of settlements in the VICP recently have been for flu vaccination. Perhaps it just means that adults can articulate.


Jeannette Bishop

I can't help seeing the flu vaccine (in all forms) as one of the most dubious. I do know some who really feel like they benefit taking the vaccine, from which, given the limitations of benefit seen in research even with all the industry bias, makes me wonder if those who don't benefit are generally getting more sick taking the vaccine.

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