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How Autism Happens: A Conversation With Kathryn Wolcott

How Autism Happens graphicBy Dan Olmsted

This is the first in a series of articles in which parents describe how their children developed autism. Today, a talk with Kathryn Wolcott. If you are interested in participating, please e-mail me at [email protected]

Dan: I have not done this series before, this conversation,  so I appreciate your being the first one and talking to me. I wondered if you might just go over a little bit about your situation, where you live, what you do, what your family's like and maybe we can talk about what happened with your daughter, Norah.

Kathryn: I would love to actually because this is the first time I've really gotten to flesh out the whole Wolcott familysituation.

My husband and I live in Jackson, Michigan, which is just south of the capital of Lansing. We both went to Michigan State University. We grew up together and got married after college. I actually went to school for communication, and then my master's degree is in health communication and I studied epidemiology and public health. After my daughter was born I did my master’s thesis on the CDC's vaccine schedule and how Jenny McCarthy was ruining public health as we know it and how vaccines absolutely do not cause autism.

Dan: You can't be serious.

Kathryn: I'm very serious, which is why this is such an interestingly ironic situation. Of course I got all my information from the CDC itself. I was gung-ho about making sure everyone in my family got their flu shot and my daughter was vaccinated on schedule every single month and there was no delaying or anything.

We found out we were expecting after we'd been married for about two and a half years, and I heard someone talking about the vaccine-autism connection and of course I just totally blew it off, "Of course it doesn't cause autism, it's just better diagnosing and that will never happen, because I'm having a girl and girls don't get autism as much as boys do." I got the flu shot while pregnant, everything.

She was born 39 weeks. I was a planned induction, which was another big regret. She was developing fine really. I nursed her ... We had a little bit of struggles with breastfeeding at the beginning. She got  Vitamin K at birth, and then two weeks in, the hep B, and she got sick, and I mean like fever.

Then we started noticing some GI issues and she was having horrible constipation and screaming and gas, which is unusual on a breastfed baby. I cut dairy and that seemed to help a little bit until we got to the two month shot and she got sick again with the high-pitched screams, the fever, all of it. Of course I pushed Tylenol like you wouldn't believe.

She got her four-month shots, same thing -- fever, screaming, but she seemed to be fine. Then between the four-month and the six-month shots, her head circumference went from the 25th percentile, which is where she was because she is little, to the 90th. That should have been a red flag for me, but retrospectively I know now.

Dan: Was that noticeable to you or is that something that the doctor noticed when he measured or what?

NorahKathryn: They did it at her well-baby check and they said, "Wow, that's interesting her head really got bigger." They did an exam and she seemed to be alert and fine and we weren't noticing any other side effects, other than her GI issues, which got better with me cutting dairy out. I remember asking if it was okay and they said, "You know sometimes it just happens, they all grow differently." I remember this was when I was starting to research a little more because I was like, "This doesn't seem normal to me for her head to get that big that fast."

Then at her six month appointment we of course vaccinated again and this time she got really sick and it was on a Friday. I remember it very specifically. She had fever, vomiting, wouldn't eat for two days, so we took her to the ER. We finally got her to eat and they sent us home with Tylenol, of course, and I took her back to the pediatrician.

Dan: Let me ask you this, when you went to the ER, did you say, "I think she's had a reaction to her shots?"

Kathryn: Absolutely and they told me that it wasn't. They said it was a coincidence, that she had a viral infection. It was a coincidence.

Dan: Got you, yeah.

Kathryn: No, it was never recorded as a vaccine reaction.

Dan: You clearly saw that happen?

Kathryn: Absolutely. I took her to the pediatrician on Monday and they told me the same thing, that it was a coincidence. At that point I decided to start slowing down with the vaccine. She didn't get any at her 10 month and then at 12 months I said, "You know, she had a bad reaction last time, so let's slow down." I never did the 12-month ones, which would have been MMR and varicella, I believe. She has never had those.

Then at her 12-month I found out I was expecting my second child and her pediatrician at that time told me that I needed to wean her at 12 months because I was pregnant. I didn't agree with that, so I switched pediatricians. Now the pediatrician I see is supportive that we don't vaccinate. At this point I think it was already too late, and about 13, 14 months is when we started to notice some delays. It was a slow regression. She did get another vaccine at 15 months because I just decided to do one at a time then. I can't remember, I think it was Hib or or DTaP.

It was slow. It was, she had a few words and slowly she was not saying them as often. She's always had really stellar eye contact and she still does. She's two and a half now, not even two and a half. Her eye contact is good. Her GI issues got progressively worse though and that's what we were really starting to notice, so we focused on that. We thought that that was the issue. She wasn't adding any new words. Physically she was fine, she was walking and crawling and all that. No pointing.

We took her to an allergist. The allergist did an IgG test and she is sensitive to gluten and casein and soy. He gave us a probiotic and said, "Cut these things out." We did that and her GI issues did get a little better, but not a whole lot. Then I started asking the pediatrician about autism and he said, "Well she responds to her name and she's social, but she's not talking." Then we started to notice some repetitive behaviors and just little things and focusing a little too long on a toy or little things like that.

Then she was officially diagnosed, they brought it to our attention about 21 months. It was a few months after that last vaccine and then she hasn't had any vaccines since then. We actually cut pretty much all medications; we stopped giving Tylenol for fevers.

Dan: How is she doing right now? Is she just sort of plateaued and is autistic or what's the ... How would you say?

Kathryn: We have started some biomedical intervention. We found a local doctor who actually takes insurance, which is great, and he's a Dan! doctor. Our pediatrician works with him, they're a team and I feel really blessed that we have that. We've started some supplements and yeast treatment and she's getting better. We started ABA and sort of like a natural environment ABA, so I'm a little more comfortable with that. Speech and OT have yielded nothing. The biggest gain for us has been treating some of that gastrointestinal yeast.

Dan: So this is still recent. My goodness. This has all just happened in your life really.

Kathryn: Oh man, I hit rock bottom there for a while because I knew, and I just knew what it was, and I knew better and I just blew it off. We actually went to Autism One right after she was diagnosed because we're not too far from Chicago, and I heard Dr. Wakefield speak and it was pretty life changing.

Dan: How so?

Kathryn: My son, he's nine months ... We had a new baby and she was getting diagnosed and it was pretty intense there for a while. He's not vaccinated at all, which has been so much better.

Dan: Let me ask you this, because this is the kind of thing we come up with all the time, so just I'm interested how you think it through in your head. Why do you think that the vaccines had anything to do with this?

Kathryn: Research obviously. I read about mercury and aluminum and the similarities between these symptoms of these things and autism, and the fact that it's a spectrum and it's all about timing and it affects everyone differently. It's just screaming in my face that it's all related. Do I think it was a direct cause? No, but I think it was just kind of like the icing on the cake and it just sealed the deal.

We have a huge family history of autoimmune diseases – huge. I mean every woman in my family has some sort of thyroid issue and there's diabetes, and Hashimoto's and scleroderma. I wish I would have known to think about that beforehand. I mean, doctors ask you all these things, family history questions, but then they don't really do anything with the information after you say it.

Dan: Yeah, I guess because they say the vaccines couldn't possibly have any role in this and therefore what difference does this make? It sounds like each time Norah got sick, and sicker than the last time.

Kathryn:   [The new doctor] noticed that she got sick, based on her records, after every well-baby visit. Based on her food allergies he was like, "I think there's a connection between food allergies and vaccines." He's like, "I would slow down and wait until she's school age. If you still want to vaccinate, slow it down and wait until she's old enough and developing an immune system." I'm so glad I found him. He doesn't vaccinate his own children. That really got me thinking: My doctor doesn't vaccinate.

Dan: Does he think that the vaccinations caused the allergies to manifest, the food allergies?

Kathryn: Oh yeah. He told us that when I first met him.

Dan: It's interesting to me that there is something going on here besides the MMR since she didn't have that, obviously.

Kathryn: Right, and that's what I kept telling myself, "It can't be autism because ..." We went through everything, we had her hearing checked and we went through the ringer with that. Nobody ever did any tests other than psychological testing. No one ever did anything other than observe, which is bizarre to me.

Dan: When you got that flu shot during pregnancy, do you know if it had mercury in it or not, looking back?

Kathryn: I have no idea, but I'm assuming that it did. It was right about at 20 weeks, 22 weeks, right at that critical time.

Dan: You can find out if you ever wanted too, but I think you're right that most adult flu shots, unless you ask otherwise, have mercury in them, you know? People will say, "Well, you know there's no more mercury in vaccines" -- well except for the one you got when your child was in a critical period of pregnancy.

Kathryn: Yes, a critical neurological development period.

Dan: You're sense, I take it, is that along with the autoimmune issues in your family, then the flu shot and the vaccination right out of gestation, those things really did this.

Kathryn: Oh yeah. Knowing what I know now, I think that she never had a chance because with all this history ... It makes me sick.

Dan: Of course. I can only empathize with that.

Kathryn: Other than her vaccinations, she has never been sick. She never even really got a cold, never on antibiotics. It's the only thing.

Dan: She never had any antibiotics at all?

Kathryn: No.

Dan: That's interesting too because sometimes there seems to be an indication that can really play into it, but obviously not here.

Kathryn: Yeah and she's got some pretty intense yeast issues and our doctor, our Dan! doctor, he says he's never seen it so bad, especially in a child who’s never had an antibiotic, which tells me that she had it from birth.

Dan: Does that reflect an immune system that's not working well?

Kathryn: Exactly, it reflects that her immune system is compromised. In some respects, he's suspecting hyperimmunity because she had never been sick, so her immune system is working just a little too hard.

Dan: You know it's interesting to think about your situation where you were not long ago an expectant mother, and before that a college student who was talking about how linking vaccines and autism is not true and there's no evidence for it. One reason why I'm trying to do these series of interviews is to convey that yes there is evidence and a lot of people who have had very hard experience with it now. What would you tell someone who believes as you did about this that there is just no link, it's been disproven, it's only Playboy models that say this and it's coincidence and you're looking for someone to blame, that kind of thing?

Kathryn: Right.

Dan: What would you say?

Kathryn:   I would say that as much as I know about research, I know that it's very easy to make the numbers look how they want them to and it's on either side. If you do know about research you know how easy it is for these pharmaceutical companies to make it look in their favor, regardless of where it comes from. I would suggest that when they are researching that they look to see where the money came from -- that makes a huge difference.

Also, this movement is so much bigger than Jenny McCarthy, and I didn't know that through this. I know that my evidence is only anecdotal, but it's all that I need at this point and I think other moms are the same way. My college self would have not believed anything that I'm saying, but once I had that baby that I wanted to protect, you really need to do your research that doesn't just come from the CDC, and that made the biggest difference.

Dan: As a journalist, I personally find it hard to believe that we're in a situation like this where so many parents like you, from all over the place, who had no reason to make stuff up, who are very smart and very informed and are trying to tell the truth here, that it butts up against this idea that it's all quackery and nuttiness. It's really quite extraordinary to me, and I can't believe that it continues to go on. It was right around 2000, there was a very clear point at which the government got concerned about the mercury in vaccines, and said they would get it all out, you know? Then here we are 12 or so years later and you're getting that shot and it may have started a cascade that didn't need to happen after all this time and I just ... Boy, it's tough isn't it?

Kathryn:   Yeah. Another point -- it's absolutely growing. There are four people that I went to high school with, and we're still in touch and three of us have kids on the spectrum.

Dan: Wow.

Kathryn:   That is just unbelievable to me. Mine being the youngest, but I mean, seriously? When I was growing up I knew one person in our entire school of over 1,000 that had autism and that wasn't even that long ago. 20 years ago? 15 years ago? Something is going on, and why don't people care is what I want to know. Nobody really seems to care.

Dan:           Yeah, why don't they?

Kathryn:   Until it affects them, which it will soon.

Dan: Why don't people care? I think they don't believe it, I guess. I think if they believed that 1 in 68 children born 8 years ago was being seriously harmed by a government program, they'd be up in arms. I can't believe people are so self-centered that they're just deciding the odds are good enough and they'll just risk it and not worry. I don't know, I can't believe that.

Kathryn: (Long pause.) This is where I lose all my sense of my words, because I just don't know. I don't know why I was that person before. I don't know. The lies that I have come to find out now are just astounding to me. We had to sign a waiver for my daughter to get services through the school about why we weren't continuing with our vaccination schedule. We actually had to go to the health department.

It was probably one of the most insulting things I've ever sat through. She said I didn't know anything about research and they handed us this pamphlet about how autism and vaccines aren't linked at all and Andrew Wakefield was a quack and how regressive autism, if we noticed any sort of regression, it was in our heads, it didn't really happen

Dan: It’s just beyond comprehension that they have to lecture you on what you saw and what happened to your child isn't their fault. It's your fault, whatever.

Kathryn: And it was in my head. We imagined it

Dan: Where are you heading in terms of your life with this new reality for you? Are you hoping that you will have a fully recovered child? Are you going to change the way your career is going or any other thing?

Kathryn: Absolutely. It's changed everything for us. We've become much more organic and toxin free in our household. We've decided to home school. It's made that decision for us just because I'm not really comfortable with the whole public school setting ... not even just vaccines but all of it. It just seems so government mandated all the time and I'm not comfortable with that. My career path absolutely has changed. I at one time had dreams of working for the CDC and now I would like to be as far away from it as I can.

Dan: Are you working outside the home now or are you ... You've got two kids.

Kathryn: I do, I work for a local community college and I teach communication classes there, part time. My husband works for Blue Cross, Blue Shield so we're pretty inundated in the medical.

Dan: You at least have good insurance anyway.

Kathryn: If anything, that's been very helpful. It's changed our entire life. My son is not vaccinated. I'm an advocate now, I'm not quiet about my beliefs, be it on social media or with friends. I don't know if I've actually lost friends, but people have started to distance themselves a little bit, but I've also had a lot of people who've asked me questions, so I think it goes both ways.

Dan: Well, you're already finding you get a whole new circle of people who somehow seem a lot more interesting and engaged and passionate not only about their kids but about everybody else. I know several people who have said through autism they've met some of the best people they've ever met in their lives, and they wish they never met any of them, you know?

Kathryn:   Yes. That is one plus to it. Yes I do have 100% hope that my daughter will be recovered. I have to have that belief because that keeps us going every day. It keeps us going to believe that she will be recovered. I think there is a good possibility. I mean she's making tremendous strides and we've only been doing this for a few months.

Dan: A lot has happened for the good already and you're with the right people to do that. I've written about people who have made huge recoveries in their early teen years and gone on to be quite functional and happy, and so you know, it's one of those things.

Kathryn: It's just finding the right combination of things, I think, because they are so different that you don't know the timing of what caused it all. I have faith that most people will be able to find something that helps their kids get better in some capacity.

Dan: I think that's so true. Well, this has been a great conversation.

Kathryn: Thank you for hearing me out. It has helped me too. I would love to share that all over the world.


Dan Olmsted is Editor of Age of Autism. [email protected]



David M

I'm amazed at the commentors' amazing observational skills, making observations that countless studies can't seem to see.

I'm likewise surprised that every single comment posted thus far are pro-ageofautism. Not one naysayer?

Go ahead, moderator... post my comment.


It is true, as Rhonda stated, that it is mostly those who have seen with their own eyes the very real damages that vaccines can do who are able to break out of the web of lies and propaganda that supports the vaccine agenda. My first hope, and prayer, is that these individuals will find help and healing for their injured loved ones. I am not sure anyone has documented a 'best' approach, but many things have proven to assist in detoxing the metals/poisons and assisting with other damages that have been done. God designed an amazing body with self-healing capabilities, and with the proper detoxification and support, great things can be accomplished.

Secondly, I hope that all those who have traversed the tragic autism path, when they have time to think again, consider just how easy it is for those who control the media (books, news, entertainment – all of it!), the education/research establishment and the gov't funds can perpetrate the most asinine myths for over a century, even in the face of obvious contrary evidence. If it can happen with vaccines, who knows what else we have been lied to about? What I am trying to say is that we must learn to break out of the restrictive propagandized boxes we have been put into and think for ourselves. Think of the many, many things (evolution, global warming??) that didn’t quite ring true, and had many naysayers, but we allowed ourselves to be convinced by the testimony of ‘the experts’ that they were true.

Once we learn that ‘the experts’ are paid well to say whatever their financers want them to say, we will have learned one of the most sad and vital aspects of life in the modern world: ‘truth’ can be bought for a price, and if we really want to find her, we are going to have to do the hard work to seek her out. May God bless all who have discovered this, and may we – one by one – teach it to others that they too may be freed from the tyranny of lies.


Thanks for sharing so openly your story! Ours has different twists and turns, but lots of overlap. In our son, who also 'never got sick', his immune system seemed to be too weak to fight. It would just accept pathogens openly. Once he had achieved a certain level of healing, mostly via GAPS Diet, he began to have fevers and sniffles like his NT siblings. I was so thankful he could get a fever. That is a sign of health - to fight! :)

Christina Waldman

One of my adult daughters has many friends working in public health. I happened upon a discussion they were having on Facebook where they were bashing "anti-vaxxers." Of course I joined in, despite taking the side of the "nitwits" (outraged they would so easily insult their friend's mother). I guess the discussion got uncomfortable for some of them. My daughter, a high school science teacher, was embarrassed that some of her students might see the Facebook discussion and think her mother was "not scientific." She said she and her friends "bash anti-vaxxers" all the time, but they aren't used to someone challenging them on it!

My daughter has a good many well-educated friends "on the autism spectrum," but apparently neither she nor they make any connection between ASD and vaccines/mercury exposure. I wonder if delaying her vaccinations until she was over 8 months old made a difference....we still had plenty of problems with allergies. Back then, it was only MMR, DPT, and polio. I shudder to think how many vaccines they give babies today (and then boosters for the rest of their lives).

Cherry Sperlin Misra

Kathryn, thankyou very much for this interview. We need the help of all you parents who have gone through so much. Each one of you gives new clues about how vaccines and other factors damage children.
Regarding yeast infection, there is an amazing antioxidant called Haritake in the U.S. and Harar in Hindi, which just knocks out candida in hours. It is one of the most well known and basic products of Ayurvedic medicine. Everyone swears that it has no side effects. I have taken it for 5 months and agree with that. Many Indian people will tell you things like "My grandfather took Harar for 20 years and he lived to 101 " A child in my nursery school had severe constipation for three years , which vanished in one week with the use of a product that contains Harar. Doctors were telling the parents to do surgery! I will never forget how happy that family was after the ayurvedic treatment. Harar is also available in Indian grocery stores in the U.S. as "Triphula", which contains Harar and two other harmless ingredients. The only caveat is that you have to start with small doses because you will get a severe die off reaction with large doses. I do think that there is a problem that the candida may re-grow after stopping Harar, but I suppose that happens with all anti- candida meds. Hopefully, with time, more healthy bacteria will take the place of the candida.

Not an MD

Fabulous interview, Dan and Kathryn. I plan to send this to someone I know who is still in denial about what is happening to her own baby.

Thank you!


Such an important series, AoA. Thanks for taking it on Dan.

All the major media outlets are too dependent on pharmaceutical advertising dollars to ever bite the hand that feeds them. Plus the pre-emptive pressures to censor vaccine injury stories by public health authorities means that the general public remains unaware of just how horrendous vaccine damage is...for some.

TENS OF THOUSANDS of parents report that their children's health deteriorated the day that vaccines were administered. Myself included. My child's screaming - and I mean wild-pain animalistic screaming from brain inflammation started 30 minutes after her shots. Continued unabated for 6 hours straight and then off and on throughout the day for weeks. My baby was transformed in a bad way by her vaccines.


Great interview, thank you.

Would she consider retracting her
master’s thesis as it has been "debunked" ???


Kathryn, Your family history leads me to believe that you have MTHFR. It is something my wife was recently diagnosed with and we are starting to learn a lot about the connection with autoimmune disease, diabetes and autism to mention just a few. Not many people know much about it, doctors have told us it is just a blood clotting issue, but we are discovering that it is much more dubious than a blood clotting issue. It makes it so that your body doesn't absorb folate and your body struggles to eliminate toxins. It can be diagnosed with a simple blood test. The best resource we have found is Dr. Ben on


Too bad Melinda or Bill Gates don't ever question the dogma. I read recently that Melinda mentioned realizing that 'disease/vaccines weren't exactly a suitable cocktail party topic- but that they love talking to the "scientists" about these things.' Doesn't she get that many, many people question the benefits vs risks to do with these and that the "scientists" they talk to are industry biased?


Thank you for this. We have a similar story - My daughter was never on ABX until age 5. The MMR caused her gut issues - She teetered and then fell off the cliff when "caught up" on the US schedule after moving to the US. I am thankful she was never given the Heb B on day of birth. I always wonder if this shot has something to do with the yeast.
Can Vaccines alter the microbiome? yep
Wonderful video on the gut microbiome that makes a lot of sense.



Thank you for sharing your family's story. My husband and I are walking almost the same path you and your husband are right now. It was a huge shock to us when we found out Nathaniel was on the spectrum because, like Norah, he is so social! Really, I sometimes question if the doctors have his diagnosis right, but I keep doing everything I can, just in case.

The sliver lining has been the people I have met. They have been incredibly supportive voices that have helped me sort this out in my heart and mind. Thank you is not enough.

I truly feel that our children will be able to overcome this--and might even be stronger for it in the long run. From everything I hear, you are an amazing mother and your family is lucky to have you. I will continue to pray for our children and their parents.


PS Norah's pretty darn cute(:

Candice chamberlain

Thanks for sharing! Can definitely relate! Our son's regression began after MMR & chicken pox and several others that day. At the time we didn't pick up on it. Hindsight is 20/20.

Lyme Panda

Hi, you mentioned all the auto-immune issues in your family history. I highly encourage you to look into Lyme Disease, which can be passed congenitally. Lyme itself can cause immune issues, and then the perfect storm happens when the vaccines are given. Many Lyme symptoms themselves are misdiagnosed as autism. You already have a dan! doctor, please look into Lyme Literate MDs (LLMDs). Look up pediatric Lyme Doctor - Dr. Jones. I wish you the best!


I had to stop reading and come back to this a few times. Tears, tears, tears.

Jeannette Bishop

Thank you for this interview. Kathryn's experience is important and courageously shared.

cia parker


Thank you for coming forward to do this interview. It will help many parents struggling to make the vaccine decision. You may already be aware of this, but the grain-free diet works better than just the GFCF diet for treating the gut issues associated with autism. My daughter was GFCF for a year, then grain-free (basically Paleo: meat, fruit (not starchy bananas), veggies (not starchy corn or potatoes), and baked goods made with almond flour). I used Healing Little Tummies and Lucy's Cookbook a lot. Digestive enzymes (Digest Spectrum) before every meal. We did two three-week courses of saccharomyces boulardii, which eliminated many symptoms of excess yeast in the gut. The Paleo diet is supposed to be relatively short-term, between six months and two years, usually, until the bad pathogens in the gut have been starved to death. Anyway, my daughter has been eating anything now for several months, with no recurrence of her GI symptoms, which were horrible. Her other symptoms of autism, the speech, cognitive, and social problems, were not improved at all, but seem to be improving with the Andy Cutler chelation protocol, which you might want to look in to ( And also improving with the English as a Second Language work we've been doing with Cambridge ESL books.

I would also observe that it's not that timing is everything. Bad timing of vaccines does make it more likely for severe reactions to occur, but there is no time when giving any vaccine can be considered safe. Horrifying reactions have occurred with every vaccine, given at any age, in any number. You have been wise not to give your son any vaccines. Dr. Sears says that if you're willing to give vaccines at all, that you should give the pertussis vaccine on schedule at two, four, six (and eighteen) months, since the disease can be serious in young newborns, but not after the first four or five months. Also the Hib vaccine (which often causes peanut allergy), because Hib meningitis can be very dangerous in infants, but is rare after two years old. Same for Prevnar and rotavirus.

I think, thought, that since all these vaccines can be very dangerous or fatal, that it's better to breastfeed the baby until self-weaning (which doesn't protect, however, from pertussis) and keep him away from large numbers of people (like in daycare), and really from anyone who might possibly have a contagious disease. Vitamin C in high doses, naturopathic and homeopathic remedies to treat disease when it occurs.

Again, it was courageous of you to give this interview, and we are grateful to you!


I sincerely thank you Kathryn for sharing your journey. It's interesting to hear how our "faith in docs" played such a huge part in our children's illnesses. I "KNEW" instinctively, as all mothers do, that the vaccines were destroying my children's well being. Yet each time, each and every visit, I would go in with the list in my head, the reactions, the screaming, the noticeable yet still subtle loss of eye contact, and each time I "WAS" treated like a child and the doc was my "parent" in whom I must believe and have faith. I will not do what you just did, because I have no trust left. As I sit here and watch my unvaccinated youngest choose a yellow crayon for his selfie, while telling me that by winter he usually has to change to brown, I have a cloud over my head that I can't kick. Am I paranoid to think that one day the wolves will be at my door with a schedule for him with laid out syringes.? I don't want anyone to know who we are. Paranoid? Maybe, probably..I don't know. My ASD son did not have the mmr when he lost his speech. Can I say that with conviction , NO. The day of his last vaccines, I took two of my boys, one for his mmr his age four, the other for his dtap,hib,prevnar,polio. On a tray was an array of vaccines, who knows ,really who got what? Did I see vials, NO, they were already laid out as syringes. I have no idea. I have little black vaccine record books, I see what was recorded. Later came a bigger nightmare for next son, I waited until he was 2 1/2, first round of vaccines the tech said "ow" and in the same swoop injected him. She took off her glove and it was bloody..yes..she stuck herself before sticking him. I can still spend time sweating and shaking over that one. I demanded she have blood tests, she did, but only once. I contacted a lawyer, it seems there are all types of protection for "the perpetrators". My time these days is spent trying to recover five of my children, and fearing that one day they'll find my baby.Oldest has crohn's, only girl had Kawasaki within a month of mmr, next tachycardia/ibd/arthritis with fluid in knees, next ASD, next (yep waited til he was 2 1/2) asthma, baby is my goldilocks.. He once got hit in the nose with a ball, and had an ER trip. Bleeding badly, the doc first said, "does he have all of his vaccines up to date"..I said YES. My paranoia runs deep, I think "what if he gets measles" will they let him die ,or cause his death, to add him to some list to prove something. Sorry, I can't keep these fears at bay. This wasn't "me", this is what the medical community has done to me.

Laura Hayes

Very powerful documentation. Thank you, Dan and Kathryn.


What a tremendous article!


I should add that if an infant's gut is not cultured normally though vaginal birth/breastfeeding from its mother who is not properly "cultured" herself, then the baby's disbiotic gut flora might negatively affect its immune system's ability to handle the onslaught of vaccines. Again, just a brewing hypothesis...


Wow, does this hit home for me. I started out as a CDC-follower and a vaccine lover in the beginning too. I thought people who didn't vaccinate were "crazy". Now we have identical twin boys with ASD, both regressed after their 12 months shots. I have a question for Kathryn - were you breastfed yourself as a baby? I am starting to form a hypothesis: formula fed babies and/or c-section babies are having children themselves, who even though we may have breastfed them, are more likely to be susceptible to vaccine damage. Our milk is bolstered with bacteria from lymph nodes that we started to culture when we were infants ourselves (or something to this effect), which we then pass along to our breastfed babies, helping to create their own gut flora. This flora can be abnormal from mothers who were bottlefed/c-sectioned, thus contributed to an unbalanced, disbiotic flora in their own breastfed babies. So interested in learning more about this possible connection....

Rhonda Spellman

I am crying, clapping and celebrating with you Kathryn! Our stories are very similar.

It's criminal that we have to discover the truth after the damage has already been done and even worse than that is that the real criminals are bribing the decision makers.

Only those of us who a personally affected can help others - hopefully before it's too late!

You might want to read 'Our Autism Story' here:

Hang in there! It's a journey, not a race.
If you'd like a free ecopy of my book, The Journey Home from Autism, just let me know.

Rhonda Spellman

Louis Conte

Kathryn and Dan:
Thanks for doing this interview and sharing this important information.

Truth, courage and humanity on display here.



Wow! I can't get over that she and her husband - I thought I was progandized by the education system pretty bad some 30 years ago -- and then I thought my daughter was a few years back -- as she had to sit in her nursing classes with her friends (one that had a vaccine injuried child) and listen to it all --- that that was the worse -- but nope Kathyrn wins the prize of being tricked and lied to and paying for it to boot. I am so sorry.


Seth; from what I am experiencing in my family - the making of vitamin D has been damaged by the vaccines - not the other way around.

Seth Bittker

Hi Dan,

I think this is a very important work that you are doing. I would be very interesting in understanding whether parents who breast-fed also provided vitamin D drops or other children's multi-vitamins to their infants. These are pushed by pediatricians in the belief that human milk has insufficient vitamin D which seems to me to be dubious to me.

Oral Vitamin D is an immunomodulator and has a lot of other effects including gastrointestinal effects. Others have claimed that oral vitamin D could help prevent autism. In any case I think it would be useful to know of these kids who got autism whether they had been given vitamin D supplements or kids multi-vitamins previously.

Eileen Nicole Simon

Dan, very interesting interview. Can you ask participants to obtain pediatric and birth records?

The claim is often made that autism was evident before vaccines were given, especially MMR. Signs of developmental delay should be found in pediatric records. Some people say that pediatricians need more training on detecting autism. I disagree. Schedules of child development have been known for a very long time.

At my local, and very up-to-date public library, I found a book by Arnold Gesell published in 1925 with the title “The mental growth of the pre-school child; a psychological outline of normal development from birth to the sixth year, including a system of developmental diagnosis ... illustrated with two hundred action photographs.”

Also important to know is whether, and what, complications at birth may have been noticed. How soon after birth was the umbilical cord clamped? What were the Apgar scores? Was any assistance needed to stimulate onset of respiration? Did the baby develop jaundice? Was natural vitamin K injected, or was it the synthetic form? When was hep B vaccine administered? Was the baby given antibiotics, and which ones?

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