Beyond the issue of having no true placebos in vaccine safety studies, there is also the issue of comparing adverse events in cases and controls within the context of comparable, cumulative damage from prior exposures. In other words, it is not merely that vaccine X is being compared to vaccine X minus antigen (or vaccine Y), but also that both cases and controls have an accumulated history of damage (or damage-priming effects) from vaccines A, B, C, D, etc.

In tobacco science terms, the first issue ("no true placebo") is like doing a short-term study of cancer rates in smokers who smoke one cigarette per day vs those who smoke one tar-free (or different brand of) cigarette per day. The "base-line exposure" issue is like a short-term study of smokers who smoke 30 cigarettes per day vs those who smoke 29 cigarettes and 1 tar-free cigarette per day.

Of course, the effect of this "base-line exposure" issue is that it creates a large signal of damage common to both cases and controls. Any additional damages suffered by cases due to the extra--but relatively small--marginal exposure can be easily written off as statistical noise.

Wow, this is a lot of comments.

In any of these, has anyone discussed whether vitamin A causes encephalitis, since it seems to be such a powerful positive approach to reducing infection rates. Who needs a shot with risks if vitamin A is so beneficial and DOESN'T cause brain swelling.

Just think what could happen if vitamin A AND vitamin C were given at the same time. Could we get a near 100% reduction in down time, serious complications, and reduce measles to a "cold-like" illness.

Does vitamin A in general need refrigeration, or is that only for injectable vitamin A? I'm not sure you even need a doctor to administer it, orally or not. It seems to be a near perfect solution to measles endemic areas in developing nations.

If it helped those folks, maybe it could help us busy, rich, developed nations, too. Honestly, who has time for all these doctor visits! It's such a interference to family time that could be otherwise better spent.

Todd,
Anne J's answer was detailed and based on a lot of thought and reading. I would go further than she, after having experienced a lot of severe and permanent vaccine damage in my family. Vaccines cannot be made safe. Everyone should just forget about that possibility. EVEN if you could take out all the preservatives and adjuvants like mercury, aluminum, formaldehyde, etc., you'd still have foreign proteins that are very apt to stimulate a damaging immune response. Any vaccine ingredient can be interpreted by an individual immune system as a dangerous challenge that must be countered with the most drastic measures, meaning vaccine encephalitis (brain damage, autism, seizure disorders) or autoimmune disease (asthma and allergies for starters). For the vast, vast majority, the vaccines are more dangerous than the diseases.
I've given it a lot of thought too. I would say that parents might want to consider a DT series for children starting not earlier than two years old. The DT is thought by some to be less dangerous than the tetanus vaccine along. No more after the initial series, except maybe in the case of a severe injury more than five years after the series. Protection probably lasts at least forty years. I would promote breastfeeding in the strongest terms possible, for as long as possible. And urge parents to avoid day care for their children, and find a single caregiver it is necessary. No others. Adults are much more likely to get Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, paralysis, or outright death from a flu vaccine than they are to die from the flu.

Todd W. in his other persona 'Harpocrates Speaks' says he isn't a physician or scientist but he is certainly an inadequate apologist for a great number of official medical and scientific positions. My own guess is that it is not true but if he did claim expertise he would also be obliged to declare his identity to back it up. It is surely significant that when it comes to the entire vaccine culture nonsense there are really very few doctors who want to defend the detail of it under their own name for very long. And look what trouble he has got himself into.

@ Todd
You'd asked which vaccines I think children should get, and that's a very difficult question for any parent, given the poor safety studies available for review. Every situation is different, different parts of the world have different disease risks, and individuals have different genetics and family medical histories (which is why 'one size fits all" is not acceptable!). I can tell you which ones I would definitely SKIP: the irresponsible birth dose of Hepatitis B for sure, the MMR (I'd think about the measles vaccine if I could get it separately, but after what my kids have been through, I'd take my chances with natural disease if I only had the choice of MMR), the chicken pox, flu (especially for pregnant women, babies and seniors!), I'd also skip tetanus for babies, and think the rotavirus vaccine is unnecessary in this country. I'd get as few vaccines as possible before the age of 2 or 3 , and stick with only those that offered solid science backing up claims to protect against truly fatal diseases. Unfortunately, the current science is not good, so it's pretty much a crap shoot. We need to do better!
As far as the vaccinated vs unvaccinated study, I'm talking about a retrospective study. No one I know is asking for anyone to withhold vaccines from anyone who might want them! I worked in prestigious research hospital for years. A retrospective study is not perfect, but it can be designed to give you quite a bit of very valuable data (certainly more valuable than the poorly designed Danish Study they are always flaunting as proof of safety!).
And no, I am not "anti vaccine", I am for SAFE vaccines. My stepfather was a surgeon, my grand father was a surgeon, my dad was a pharmacist, all our family friends were doctors, I have been a licensed healthcare worker going on three decades now, and I worked in a research hospital for years. I feel utterly betrayed by the CDC and completely ashamed of the way the medical community as a whole has addressed the autism epidemic. What I am noticing now, however, is a turning of the tide. Doctors and healthcare providers who used to just dismiss any connection between vaccines and autism are now starting to come around. They are asking more questions. Some openly state they now believe in a connection, and some even refer concerned parents to talk to me about my own experience. There is no doubt vaccines contribute. What we need are properly designed studies to tell us WHY some kids have more problems with them than others. Study the kids who got sick, and study the ones who are recovering using biomed treatments. Study the ENTIRE vaccine schedule, not just isolated bits and pieces. And for God sake, acknowledge the kids who have been injured by vaccines "for the greater good" and TAKE CARE OF THEM! They are not a "coincidence" and they are not "acceptable collateral damage". They are innocent children who have had their lives dramatically altered, who deserve so much better. The CDC and the American Academy of Pediatrics have failed them horribly. Our country cannot go on like this.

Since you threw out the "conspiracy theory" meme, I'm pretty much ignoring the rest of your comment. I will make a couple of statements.

Yes, I copy and paste-so what? It's practical and it saves time. Why reinvent the wheel? Years ago I used to be accused of cherry picking information. This way, you have some information and a link to that information. I think it's important to provide information (copy & paste) not for the person I'm responding to so much but so that others who read the comments are provided with some insights of the topics that's being discussed. They will be more compelled to go to the link and read more so than the person I'm responding to.

Measles continues to be a mild childhood illness. AMS however is not. Also, kids are contracting the illness, measles, from the measles vaccine.
Case of teenager with measles baffles doctors
http://www.manilatimes.net/case-of-teenager-with-measles-baffles-doctors/69078/

Case of vaccine-associated measles five weeks post immunisation,
British Columbia, Canada, October 2013: http://www.eurosurveillance.org/images/dynamic/EE/V18N49/art20649.pdf

Spotlight on measles 2010: Excretion of vaccine strain measles virus in urine and pharyngeal secretions of a child with vaccine associated febrile rash illness,
Croatia, March 2010: http://www.eurosurveillance.org/images/dynamic/EE/V15N35/art19652.pdf

Measles Outbreak Traced to Fully Vaccinated Patient for First Time: http://news.sciencemag.org/health/2014/04/measles-outbreak-traced-fully-vaccinated-patient-first-time (not the first time and 2 cases were transmitted in the doctors office.

Two Fully Vaccinated Doctors Get Measles (2009)http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/204/suppl_1/S559.full.pdf+html

Major Measles Epidemic in Quebec Despite 99% Vaccine Coverage (1989) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1884314
Outbreak of Measles Despite Appropriate Control Measures (1985)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=3618578

California Measles: 85% of Those Contracting It Are Fully Vaccinated http://www.naturalblaze.com/2014/06/california-measles-85-of-those.html

I have dozens of articles of outbreaks of every childhood illness there is a vaccine for happening in populations that are highly vaccinated. Why do you think this is????

*You will never look at vaccinated children the same!- Shedding Viruses* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKSeiAs_A4w

In regards to third world countries, the WHO/Gates and their minions are vaccinating everything that moves with live virus vaccines....that shed. They are creating their own market and at the same time engaging in some stealth population control. Another egregious thing they have done to children in the Third World is pump them full of vaccines which are toxic by their very makeup and have full mercury load. At the Simpsonwood conference in 2000, the 52 attendees voted to NOT REMOVE mercury in vaccines going to the Third World. Of course there is no documentation to confirm mercury has been removed from vaccines in the US. It's all voluntary.

Instead of poisoning the population in the Third World with vaccines costing millions of dollars, how about investing that money in: clean water systems, installation of municipal waste disposal system, toilets, plumbing, irrigation system to assist in growing crops,housing,teach the people about nutrition, life skills that will help them become more healthy and independent. All the WHo/Gates & minions are doing is creating in Third World countries what they have done in the US, with the help of our government, create chronically ill children.

More than 32 Million American Kids Chronically Sick: It's Time to Demand Answers: http://www.ageofautism.com/2011/05/more-than-32-million-american-kids-chronically-sick-its-time-to-demand-answers.html
Over 50% of children have a chronic condition and 1 in 6 have a neurodevelomental disorder (aka vaccine caused brain injury). Autism and autoimmune disorders are skyrocketing. Injecting aluminum, mercury, aborted fetal tissue, formaldehyde, MSG, diseased monkey kidney, etc. does not bring health.
Trends in the Prevalence of Developmental Disabilities in US Children, 1997–2008

U.S. CHILD CHRONIC DISEASE INCREASES
1976: 1 child in 30 was learning disabled
→2013: 1 child in 6 is learning disabled.

1980: 1 child in 27 had asthma
→2013: 1 child in 9 has asthma.

1990’s: 1 child in 555 developed autism
→2013: 1 child in 50 develops autism.

2001: 1 child in 500 had diabetes
→2013: 1 child in 400 has diabetes.

I wonder what the chronic disease numbers are in children in the Third World counties?

Todd W: you say,

"Comparing vaccine against a placebo containing all but the antigens allows discovery of adverse events caused by the antigen. But many of the newer vaccines actually are tested against saline placebo--."

You may be correct that 'newer vaccines' have been tested and compared to true saline placebos. Would you care to tell me what newer vaccines you are referring to?

As to the vaccines instituted the last 30 years in the U.S. Immunization Schedule for Children Aged 0 to 6, can you please identify what vaccine tests used a true placebo?

I look forward to being corrected - by the scientific method. Thanks!

Todd W.
Do you think the vaccine industry would have approached Congress in the 1980's demanding that Congress remove liability from vaccines, threatening to close down shop if they didn't, if vaccines were so safe? Do you think Congress would have set up the Vaccine Injury Compensation Fund in 1986, funded with $.75 of each disease of each vaccine sold thereafter to this day, if the healthy could not be harmed by vaccines? Do you think that the $2.8 billion already paid out of that fund was given to people who were not harmed by vaccines? You think the government just paid out $2.8 billion to be nice?

Please. There are too many people here who have lost loved ones or their loved ones health from vaccines, including me. Enough.

Todd

It is not very good is it? I say vaccines aren't monitored - you deny this by saying there is a monitoring system but admittedly it is rubbish. I have no doubt you will now come and say "Well, it isn't as rubbish as all that". Well it is and it is certainly no reassurance. You keep on asking people to prove that the vaccines are more dangerous than the diseases, but if they don't have proper evidence base YOU DON'T EITHER. But it also does not answer the question whether they are as safe as they could or should be, or whether there isn't a toll from the endless expanding schedule which is a grand experiment on the population at large.

I would love it if you could name which vaccines have been thoroughly tested against a proper placebo. Has there been any movement to withdraw the ones which aren't?

You evaded my point that basis for the claims of vaccine safety are based largely on statistics when you accuse me of confusing correlation with cause.

Your defence of nasal flu vaccines is half-hearted and irrelevant. They are licensed and marketed, and in the UK they are now on the schedule - we look forward to only chaos in our schools this fall and sick people being made iller.

@Todd, no, all the neurodegenerative (other than Alzheimer's) and the auto- immune conditions are in people in their 20's, or younger = not "age related."
Honestly, as others have mentioned, I don't think you have any clue how ill and learning disabled (that term in the general sense) the children now are in the schools.

Todd:
This is the go to rebuttal for the pro-vaccine advocates "conspiracy theory". See this term is suppose to make people shut down when they hear it, not ask questions or question the status quo. Trolls are instructed to use this term freely because of the negative conations associated with it which is what the CDC/vaccine industry wants. If you automatically disregard anything you hear that is labeled a conspiracy theory you won’t ever question the motives of the CDC/vaccine industry and you will be a good little sheep.

Do you know where the term “conspiracy theory” came from? The king of conspiracies, paranoia, and cover-ups himself J Edgar Hoover. He coined the term when he claimed that organized crime did not exist. That’s right, the first ever conspiracy theory was that the mafia was real, turns out J. Edgar was full of it. Why would the FBI create a term that discredits people? Because they didn’t want anyone to believe that there was a mafia, and the best way to accomplish that was by discrediting anyone who said otherwise without actually having to use facts to prove them wrong. See the similarities here. The Pharmaceutical companies, the CDC, FDA, IOH, IOM, WHO, The Task Force For Health, Gates Foundation & The Rockefeller Foundation don't want people to know that they are part of the most egregious fraud perpetrated on mankind-vaccines.

*Gates also delivered a very odd comment at around the 4:30 mark of the linked video where he maintains “if we do a really great job on vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower that [his initial 2050 global population projection of 9-billion] by perhaps about 10 to 15 percent.” Bill Gates recently pledged $10-billion towards a global vaccine program targeting the “world’s needy children.” http://vanshardware.com/2010/02/bill-gates-we-can-lower-the-worlds-population-with-vaccines/
I'm sure you will mitigate the remark by saying what Gates said was taken out of context. That's what they all say.

*In its 1968 yearly report, the Rockefeller Foundation acknowledged funding the development of so-called “anti-fertility vaccines” and their implementation on a mass-scale. From page 51 onward we read:
“(…) several types of drugs are known to diminish male fertility, but those that have been tested have serious problems of toxicity. Very little work is in progress on immunological methods, such as vaccines, to reduce fertility, and much more research is required if a solution is to be found here.”

The possibility of using vaccines to reduce male fertility was something that needed to be investigated further, according to the Rockefeller Foundation, because both the oral pill and the IUD were not suitable for mass-scale distribution:

“We are faced with the danger that within a few years these two “modern” methods, for which such high hopes have been held, will in fact turn out to be impracticable on a mass scale.”

“A semipermanent or renewable subcutaneous implant of these hormones has been suggested, but whether or not the same difficulties would result has not been determined.

Saying that research thus-far had been too low-grade to produce any substantial results, the report was adamant:THE

“The Foundation will endeavor to assist in filling this important gap in several ways:

1- “Seeking out or encouraging the development of, and providing partial support to, a few centers of excellence in universities and research institutions in the United States and abroad in which the methods and points of view of molecular biology are teamed with the more traditional approaches of histology, embryology,and endocrinology in research pertinent to development of fertility control methods;”

2- “Supporting research of individual investigators, oriented toward development of contraceptive methods or of basic information on human reproduction relevant to such developments;”

3- “Encouraging, by making research funds available, as well as by other means, established and beginning investigators to turn their attention to aspects of research in reproductive biology that have implications for human fertility and its control;”

4- “Encouraging more biology and biochemistry students to elect careers in reproductive biology and human fertility control, through support of research and teaching programs in departments of zoology, biology, and biochemistry.” ROCKEFELLER FOUNDATION PRESIDENT'S FIVE-YEAR REVIEW ANNUAL

REPORT 1968 http://www.rockefellerfoundation.org/uploads/files/1496d619-017d-4b13-8a64-fce8ed4f785d-1968.pdf
Global Distribution of Rockefeller-Funded Anti-Fertility Vaccine Coordinated by WHO

Rockefeller Foundation Developed Vaccines For “Mass-Scale” Fertility Reduction- which outlines the Rockefeller Foundation’s efforts in the 1960s funding research into so-called “anti-fertility vaccines”- another series of documents has surfaced, proving beyond any doubt that the UN Population Fund, World Bank and World Health Organization picked up on it, further developing it under responsibility of a “Task Force on Vaccines for Fertility Regulation”.

Just four years after the Rockefeller Foundation launched massive funding-operations into anti-fertility vaccines, the Task Force was created under auspices of the World Health Organization, World Bank and UN Population Fund. Its mission, according to one of its members, to support:

“basic and clinical research on the development of birth control vaccines directed against the gametes or the preimplantation embryo. These studies have involved the use of advanced procedures in peptide chemistry, hybridoma technology and molecular genetics as well as the evaluation of a number of novel approaches in general vaccinology. As a result of this international, collaborative effort, a prototype anti-HCG vaccine is now undergoing clinical testing, raising the prospect that a totally new family planning method may be available before the end of the current decade.”

In regards to the scope of the Task Force’s jurisdiction, the Biotechnology and Development Monitor reported:

“The Task Force acts as a global coordinating body for anti-fertility vaccine R&D in the various working groups and supports research on different approaches, such as anti-sperm and anti-ovum vaccines and vaccines designed to neutralize the biological functions of hCG. The Task Force has succeeded in developing a prototype of an anti-hCG-vaccine.”

One of the Task Force members, P.D. Griffin, outlined the purpose and trajectory of these Fertility Regulating Vaccines. Griffin:

“The Task Force has continued to coordinate its research activities with other vaccine development programs within WHO and with other international and national programs engaged in the development of fertility regulating vaccines.”

Griffin also admitted to the fact that one of the purposes of the vaccines is the implementation in developing countries. Griffin:

“If vaccines could be developed which could safely and effectively inhibit fertility, without producing unacceptable side effects, they would be an attractive addition to the present armamentarium of fertility regulating methods and would be likely to have a significant impact on family planning programs.”

* Between 1963 and 1965 more than 400, 000 Colombian women were sterilized in a program funded by the Rockefeller Foundation. In Bolivia, a U.S. imposed population control program administered by the Peace Corps sterilized Quechua Indian women without their knowledge or consent...(Akwesasne Notes, 1977: 31). In 1967 the American Public Health Association and the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists conducted a study and found that 54 percent of the teaching hospitals nation-wide "...made sterilization a requirement for winning approval for an abortion" (Weisbord, 1975: 155). A Look at the Indian Health Service Policy of Sterilization, 1972-1976 by Charles R. England

*UNICEF Nigerian Polio Vaccine Contaminated with Sterilizing Agents Scientist Finds: KADUNA, Nigeria, March 11, 2004 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A UNICEF campaign to vaccinate Nigeria's youth against polio may have been a front for sterilizing the nation. Dr. Haruna Kaita, a pharmaceutical scientist and Dean of the Faculty of Pharmaceutical Sciences of Ahmadu Bello University in Zaria, took samples of the vaccine to labs in India for analysis. http://www.sott.net/article/182359-UNICEF-Nigerian-Polio-Vaccine-Contaminated-with-Sterilizing-Agents-Scientist-Finds

*Recombinant Birth Control Vaccine - Patent 5733553: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/49292742/Recombinant-Birth-Control-Vaccine---Patent-5733553

*Polysorbt 80 Causes Infertility An Emulsifier That Can Damage your Reproductive health Joanna Karpases-Jones http://infertility.suite101.com/article.cfm/polysorbate_80_causes_infertility

*Tetanus Vaccines Sterilizing Women In Kenya? Catholic Church There Raises Suspicion.
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/tetanus-vaccines-sterilizing-women-kenya-catholic-church-there-raises-suspicions

*Vaccine Wkly. 1995 May 29 - Jun 5:9-10.
Tetanus vaccine may be laced with anti-fertility drug.International / developing countrie http://fastapo.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/tetanus-vaccine-may-be-laced-with-anti-fertility-d-vaccine-wkly-1995-may-29-jun-5-pubmed-result.pdf
*Are New Vaccines Laced with Birth-Control Drugs? http://www.thinktwice.com/birthcon.htm

The quotes of well respected honest scientist are just as important today than in the 50-60's, even more so because the deception, conflict of interest, data manipulation and out right terrorizing the public for profit has created two generations of chronically ill children. The recently released "blockbuster study" that definitely answers the question of vaccine safety is another CON by the CDC/Vaccine industry.

"Safety of Vaccines Used for Routine Immunization of US Children: A Systematic Review.
The report's conclusions are hardly convincing. But what's more troubling, is the immense conflict of interest from which the report itself was written. The authors include Margaret A. Maglione, Lopamudra Das, Laura Raaen, Alexandria Smith, Ramya Chari, Sydne Newberry, Roberta Shanman, Tanja Perry, and Courtney Gidengil, all of the corporate-funded think tank, RAND Corporation.
While the report itself was funded by the US government, the RAND Corporation from which its authors were drawn is funded by the very corporations (.PDF page 70) that manufacture various vaccines, including the MMR vaccine which was the primary focus of the report. Big-pharma sponsors of RAND include GlaxoSmithKline (GSK) and Merck - that latter of which is listed by the US Center for Disease Control (CDC) specifically as the manufacturer of the MMR vaccine.

Merck has also directly and openly funded other studies put out by RAND (here and here). RAND's other big-pharma sponsor, GSK, has been recently exposed amid a global multi-billion dollar bribing scandal where it was paying off doctors to endorse and distribute their products.

With Pediatrics' report exposed as - at the very least - an irresponsible, unethical exercise in research, and at worst, corporate propaganda masquerading as a scientific paper, those considering whether or not to have vaccines manufactured by deceitful pharmaceutical monopolies injected into their bodies, have an added incentive to hold off and search for alternatives. http://www.activistpost.com/2014/07/big-pharma-vaccines-deemed-safe-by big.html#more

New study ‘disproves’ MMR-autism link? Not so fast: pro-life vaccine expert: SEATTLE, WA – A new study making the rounds claims to definitively disprove the long-rumored link between the Measles, Mumps and Rubella (MMR) shot and rising rates of autism. But according to a prominent pro-life vaccine researcher, the study only looked at one MMR vaccine – an ethically-sourced Japanese product that contains none of the human DNA fragments found in more common MMR vaccines produced from aborted fetal cell lines – and doesn’t apply to the MMR available in the United States.

“The MMR all the news are talking about is from Japan and was made in animals, not aborted fetal cells. Therefore, we would not expect that study to show any link between animal based MMR and autism,” explained Dr. Theresa Deisher, a Seattle-based genetic research scientist. “We only see a link between aborted fetal manufactured vaccines and autism.” http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/new-study-disproves-mmr-autism-link-not-so-fast-pro-life-vaccine-expert

"In fact, most deaths seen when measles outbreaks occur in the United States occur either in children in which vaccination was contraindicated, the vaccine did not work or in children with chronic, immune-suppressing diseases. In fact, in most studies these children catching the measles or other childhood diseases have been either fully immunized or partially immunized. The big secret among "vaccinologists" is that anywhere from 20 to 50% of children are not resistant to the diseases for which they have been immunized. THE TRUTH BEHIND THE VACCINE COVER-UP By Russell Blaylock, M.D.

more later

Anne, nicely and concisely stated. Thanks!

david m burd (born in the USA 1940-1955 - thank God!)

Todd, maybe I have missed someone's response to your noting that those born in /40 to /55 having a life expectancy of 63- 69 years but my experience certainly shows this to be otherwise. My parents (born in late 20's) are in their mid 80's and they and most of their friends (though to be sure some had succumbed to Alzheimer's and fewer to cancer or heart problems) seem MUCH healthier than the people in their 50's and younger. Now these people seem to be much more plagued with cancer, neurodegenerative conditions, auto-immune problems. It's very noticeable. Now I do realize that in recent decades, we have more premies which can account for certain problems but there is no way that today's adults are "healthier" than those born in the early 20thcentury, especially when sanitation, plumbing and penicillin were in place.

@David M Burd

Comparing vaccine against a placebo containing all but the antigens allows discovery of adverse events caused by the antigen. But many of the newer vaccines actually are tested against saline placebo, too. I'm sorry, but you are wrong about your "absolute fraud" hyperbole.

Some of the excipients are in the bulk materials but are removed during the manufacturing process (e.g., by diluting out, etc.). You say that the excipients are all toxic, but there is no valid evidence that the amounts in vaccines, administered in the manner of vaccines, is dangerous.

@Anne J.

Funny you call VAERS a joke, when anti-vaccine activists rely so heavily upon raw VAERS data. It has a lot of weaknesses, true. It is meant as a means of generating hypotheses for further study, not as a be-all/end-all way to demonstrate causation, since it cannot show causation.

@John Stone

How many of those deaths were investigated and found to be causally linked to the vaccine? Just skimming the reports, I note one includes twins. One twin was found face down (infants shouldn't be put to sleep like this as they can suffocate). Also fractured ribs with hemorrhaging. The vaccine can't do that. Suggests other causes of death. I also note that some reports are hearsay, with no details about the patient. Are you starting to see why VAERS should not be used as evidence of causation? Rather than go on and on here, here's a link to my further thoughts on VAERS: http://www.harpocratesspeaks.com/2013/11/vaers-few-things-we-need-to-discuss.html

The rotavirus vaccine was likely withdrawn because, even for these expert liars, it's too hard to hide a dramatic increase in babies who emergently need life saving bowel surgery. It isn't as easy to dismiss that kind of harm as it is to dismiss parental reports of developmental regression, changes in behavior and loss of health.

@ Todd
The VAERS system is a joke and only reflects a small fraction of those injured. None of my three kids were listed in VAERS. Everything is always just chalked up to a"coincidence" when it comes to vaccine injury. There is no real accountability. They talk a good talk about "monitoring vaccines for safety", but in reality they choose to ignore those injured and deny vaccines play any role. The MMR is a perfect example of a challenge-re challenge test. How many times have we heard that a child regressed after the first MMR (chalked up to "coincidence", of course, so no report to VAERS), he proceeds to improve over the next months, so the mom allows the 2nd MMR, and the child regresses into full-blown autism. That was our story, but I've heard the same thing over and over and over from many other parents. Just how many "coincidences" do we need to experience before the CDC admits a problem. It's criminal really!

@Anne

The risk of encephalitis from measles is about 1-2 per 1,000. The risk of encephalitis from MMR is about 1 in 1,000,000. If you have evidence that the risk of encephalitis is greater from the vaccine, show it.

Regarding separating combination vaccines out, this makes no sense from the anti-vaccine viewpoint, since it means 3 times the number of skin punctures (infection risk, if done improperly), 3 times the excipients, 3 times the chances for an adverse reaction. Plus there's the risk of not completing the series to get full protection. It's possible that separating them out into separate injections might be safer, but I'd need to see the evidence. One thing where we do have evidence that separating shots out is MMRV vs. MMR and varicella separately. MMRV has a higher risk of febrile seizures. So for now it appears wiser to keep those as separate injections.

@Linda1

Except that there's no evidence to support your assertion that "healthy individuals [are]...SACRIFICED". As to the death rates, I'm not sure where you are getting that current estimates are very different than historical figures. I've shown how from 2000-2013/4 we had a death rate of 1.5 per 1,000 or so. That's well within what we expect to see.

What evidence do you have that the measles virus has mutated to become more virulent? Can you provide a link to the study that examined the genetic makeup of the virus to show which mutations have occurred?

@Vaccination Information

First, it helps to provide at least the year (1975 - why must you folks always go for such old studies?) of the study. Thank you, though, for pasting the abstract, as I wasn't able to see it, even on the Oxford Publishing site. The author argues in favor of vaccination, especially among those with greatest risk of death (lower income, health problems, etc.). This is in line with what I'm arguing: vaccination to protect both the individual and the, as Linda1 put it, "weak".

@John Stone

I never said that VAERS was a succes. I said it was a monitoring system. You said vaccines weren't monitored, but they are. RotaShield was not developed by Dr. Offit. He did not benefit from that vaccine. By the way, I really don't understand why you people villify someone getting paid for the work that they have done. I assume that none of you get paychecks and just altruistically donate your time to your employers. That's the only explanation I can think of.

And my apologies for not addressing your nasal flu vaccine thing. I was trying to stay relatively on topic. I'll note a couple things: 1) the nasal vaccine is being made available, but from the quick read I gave your post, is not being mandated; 2) the risk of spreading the weakened virus can be mitigated if the instructions for administration and warnings are followed. Also, it is a weakened virus, so it is less likely to shed and cause infection in others than the wild virus. You won't find this an adequate response, but my comment is already getting long and unwieldy.

One last thing: what vaccine(s) would you recommend people should get? Which ones do you think are safe and effective? I noticed you didn't answer that.

I am sorry Todd, that's eyewash. It takes considerable nerve to hold up VAERS as a success. OK they withdrew one vaccine once - the greatest beneficiary was Paul Offit btw - and by now there are nearly half a million reports in a passive system!!! You ducked out of explaining nasal flu vaccines altogether. It is getting a bit thin, frankly...

You suggest I confuse correlation with causation but the defence of vaccines depends largely on statistics and even then you have to fiddle them.

Todd W.,
"People who have compromised immune systems due to other illness... This is the second role of vaccination: to prevent the spread of the virus among the community, including to those who would very likely die or be severely and permanently injured by the disease. That's one of the more frustrating parts of this whole thing, is that those of you who are opposed to vaccines very frequently dismiss or ignore the people who cannot be vaccinated who would be very, very seriously impacted by the spread of disease."

That's what is frustrating about this whole thing - is that public health officials and those lapping up their perspective, don't give a thought to those healthy individuals, newborns, children and adults, SACRIFICED, in order to theoretically save the weak. No...thought...at...all.

"Today, in the U.S., the risk of death is 1 in 1,000 to about 1 in 3,000."

The new and improved measles mortality rates need explanation, because by all accounts, they are so far from historical figures as cited by Danchi (thank you, Danchi), that they are baloney. Unless, like pertussis and similar to what has occurred with antibiotics, the measles virus has morphed into something much more virulent because of man's tampering - what scientists call "vaccine pressure".

"The only way we know of so far to prevent infection and to protect the individual in the first place is vaccination."

Wrong. Modern sanitation coupled with good nutrition and a strong immune system is the best way to prevent or fight off infection.

"Those born today have an average life expectancy of closer to 80 years."

A crystal ball factoid. That remains to be seen, doesn't it?

I love how those defending the MMR always use encephalitis as a complication of measles, therefore everyone should vaccinate, yet they completely dismiss the encephalitis CAUSED by vaccines. My three kids ALL experienced significant adverse reactions to their MMR vaccines (and my son was hospitalized for a week after his birth dose of Hep B, and admitted to the ER with symptoms of encephalitis shortly after his DTap). If I had it to do over again, I would NEVER follow the current CDC vaccine schedule. It's simply not safe. As a country, we now have 1 in 6 kids with developmental delays. 1 in 6! More and more, it's looking like our overly aggressive vaccine schedule plays a significant role in that devastating figure. Yes, the measles can be serious for some, but certainly does not cause brain damage to 1 in 6, like our current vaccine schedule seems to. Maybe if we had the option to get the measle vaccine separately, rather than a dangerous 3 in 1 combination, more people might choose that option. Until then, I'd skip the MMR rather then take the risk. It's a dangerous vaccine, in my own personal experience. By the way, I am a healthcare provider and have a degree in biology (I am not a doctor, but I am perfectly capable of recognizing a vaccine reaction in my own children).

Todd

But we have many, many children now with neurological impairments and parents whose stories are simply for the most part being ignored (by people who are responsible for the program). You say your route is safer, that the vaccine is always the lesser risk, but it has not been shown and the monitoring does not take place.

Todd

Not everyone here is opposed to vaccines per se: it is about due care, ever expanding schedules etc. But health officials don't blink at programs which actually expose the population to risk when it suits them:

http://www.ageofautism.com/2013/05/uk-department-of-health-deliberately-exposes-vulnerable-population-to-flu-infection.html

@David M Burd

Good nutrition will help mitigate some of the complications from measles, but not all. The risk of severe complications goes up if the patient is malnourished. Clean water/sewage won't do anything to prevent measles; the best it does is lower the risk of other, non-respiratory illnesses (e.g., diseases spread by the fecal-oral route). However, neither of those will prevent a person from getting measles if they are susceptible and exposed to the disease. The only way we know of so far to prevent infection and to protect the individual in the first place is vaccination.

Second, and this is something that I find quite common among those opposed to vaccines, is that while a healthy child may have a lower (but non-zero) risk of serious complications, what about the unhealthy? People who have compromised immune systems due to other illness (e.g., cancer), treatment (e.g., immunosuppressants to prevent rejection of transplanted organs), age, and so on. This is the second role of vaccination: to prevent the spread of the virus among the community, including to those who would very likely die or be severely and permanently injured by the disease. That's one of the more frustrating parts of this whole thing, is that those of you who are opposed to vaccines very frequently dismiss or ignore the people who cannot be vaccinated who would be very, very seriously impacted by the spread of disease. The common cold is a mild disease (generally); the measles is not. Today, in the U.S., the risk of death is 1 in 1,000 to about 1 in 3,000. That may not seem like a lot, but when you start to get large outbreaks affecting thousands of people (or, if the MMR vaccine stops being used, hundreds of thousands of people), you will start seeing a lot more deaths from the disease. Since measles elimination in the U.S. (which is different from eradication, by the way), we have had about 1,300 cases of measles, not counting the latest big outbreak. Among those 1,3000, there were two deaths, giving a mortality rate of about 1.5 per 1,000 (http://www.harpocratesspeaks.com/2014/05/anti-vaxers-and-math-dont-mix.html). But there have been a lot more non-fatal complications leading to significant expenditures by families and public health agencies. In the 2011 measles outbreak in Minnesota, 14 out of 21 patients were hospitalized (http://www.harpocratesspeaks.com/2011/11/report-on-mn-measles-outbreak-from-idsa.html). That outbreak, by the way, resulted because parents in the Somali community stopped vaccinating after being addressed by DAN! doctors, Generation Rescue and Andrew Wakefield. Contrast those numbers with the risk of serious adverse reaction to the measles vaccine: around 1 in 1,000,000.

You say that your generation was the healthiest in history, yet those born around 1940-1955 have an average life expectancy of 63-69 years. Those born today have an average life expectancy of closer to 80 years. That speaks to being, on average, healthier today than back then. You also say that you "easily sailed through" all the childhood illnesses, except you ignore those who didn't. The ones who died, the ones left blind or deaf, the ones who suffered permanent disfigurement because of those diseases. And not knowing about autism is very different from there being no autism. That's like saying that because some bacterium hadn't been identified yet or wasn't known to the majority of people means that it didn't exist.

I've looked at the CDC list of excipients, most of which are not present in the finished vaccine product. Those that are are present in small enough amounts that they are not toxic. There has been no good evidence to suggest that the vaccine is worse than the disease, and no valid research showing any link between MMR and autism. I am all for making vaccines as safe as they can be and for reducing the adverse reactions even more, but it has to be based on science and evidence.

P.S. To the editors, there seems to be something wrong with your Captcha verification. When I click "Post", no image appears until I click to get another one.

Todd,
None of the WHO links work. Considering the WHO is in collusion with the following;
-Task Force for Global Health
-Centers for Disease Control
-The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation
-Centers for Disease Control Foundation
-The Rockefeller Foundation

The creditability of the statistic quoted by the WHO are questionable if not downright fraudulent. Who's going to challenge it? All of the above have engaged in eugenics activity for over 50 years, beginning with the Rockefeller Foundation. All have been involved in developing vaccines for population control via vaccines as stated by Bill Gates in a TED video. His parents were well know eugenics and there are documents online confirming the Rockefeller Foundations goal to control the worlds population via vaccines. So the creditability of your sources is moot.

Todd,
Has any study been done to see if children who react to vaccines with fever have a higher incidence of permanent damage than those who don't? More autism or seizure disorders than those who don't? There was no autism in Africa until vaccines were introduced there. Adbulkadir Khalif said that he would prefer that his child get and recover from (as several of his children did) and even die of measles than that he develop autism as a result of the vaccine (the way his young son in Minnesota did a few years ago). Has any survey been done to see how many African parents agree with him?

The fact that many African mothers breastfeed for much longer than is common in western countries could mean that the maternal antibodies would prevent the desired reaction to the vaccine from creating immunity: that's why they moved giving the MMR to over one year old in western countries.

Todd W.
You're refusing to look at the big picture. I brought up the microbiome and you ignored that huge topic. I brought up the lack of epidemiological data pre and post vaccine era and you ignored that huge topic. I said that the assertion that post vaccination fever is harmless is an assumption and you said prove it. I say prove that it is harmless. You can't, because it is not known to be harmless. It is only assumed to be harmless. As John Stone correctly pointed out, Hannah Poling's vaccine induced fever turned out not to be so harmless, and we don't know how many children are like Hannah Poling because public health authorities refuse to investigate that question, a question that Hannah's pediatric neurologist father, implored the scientific community to explore after what he saw happen to his daughter.

It's impossible to reason with someone who insists on wearing blinders.

Todd W.

Some of us are in a bad spot - families, friends, co-workers - because we came into contact with vaccines. You talk like a CDC commercial.

Re: Fevers

Following measles vaccination, fever is not all that common (5%-15%) and generally resolves without any problems. As noted by that LeBaron study cited by Mr. Stone, no medical interventions were required due to fever. Compare that to measles, where fever is a feature and common first symptom and can last for days.

Fever isn't some bogeyman to be feared and prevented at all costs. It's certainly a concern in young infants (e.g, under 4 months), but in older infants and children, a fever that's below 104F probably isn't something you need to worry about unless it's accompanied by other symptoms, like a rash. Call your Dr. and they'll advise accordingly.

As for measles vs. vaccination in developing nations, consider that measles has about a 90% infection rate for susceptible people, so where measles is endemic, you're almost guaranteed to get measles, along with its fever and other complications (pneumonia, diarrhea, ear infection/deafness, encephalitis, etc.). Balanced against a relatively low risk of fever that typically resolves without any apparent negative effects, it is much safer to get the vaccine than the infection.

If you think that fever following MMR vaccination is a greater risk than the risks measles itself presents, please show me your evidence.

Wow! Great article! Thank you!

Todd W,
There is no evidence to prove that post vaccination fevers are benign. This is an assumption. As I pointed out earlier, long term sequelae have not been adequately tracked or determined.

@John Stone

I addressed exactly what the author stated and the impression that his words give. He is free to correct me if my interpretation is incorrect.

As to your link regarding fevers, from the conclusions (emphasis added):

An estimated net 95 (18%) experienced measles-mumps-rubella vaccine-associated events (median onset 5–10 days postvaccination, duration 2–5 days), with high fever (temperature ≥39.5°C) occurring in 33 (6%). None required medical attention.

Also note that measles infection itself frequently has high fevers, peaking at 103°–105°F. In fact, high fever is one of the first signs of a measles infection. (http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/meas.pdf)

Todd W,
I had the same thoughts about the Ghana/Gambia death rates - that the measles vaccine won't decrease deaths from other causes. What is missing from this equation is the effect of the vaccine program on the short and long-term health of these populations. In looking at the author's reference for that statement, we see immunization and child mortality rates listed by country, but there is no data on chronic disease rates, rates that are known to have skyrocketed in the developed world with the increase in vaccination. That missing data is necessary to correctly evaluate the value and safety of any vaccine program. Myopic reductionist methods of analysis conceal answers to important questions that public health authorities refuse to explore - that is, what are the true health costs of administering these vaccines to whole populations? What is the trade-off?

As only one example, scientists are recognizing the importance of the human microbiome which is unique to each individual, believed to be crucial for human health and is passed down through generations. Anything that disrupts or alters the microbiome has the potential to irreversibly alter the health of the individual and the individual's offspring. To go into a continent with drugs that will alter the microbiome of an entire population in ways that are not yet fully understood is reckless and goes against the wisdom of the latest science. Enthusiasm for wiping out measles should be tempered by the responsibility to first, do no harm. It is not at all clear that these vaccines are not doing more harm than good.

@Benedetta

I'm impressed by the editors because, a number of years ago, they banned me, or at least stopped letting any of my comments through, even though I followed the commenting guidelines. Age of Autism has a reputation for not letting through comments that offer even a modicum of dissent from the party line.

@Bob Moffitt

Based on the abundance of research from many different sources around the world, I feel that the children of Gambia could handle, quite well, a measles immunization schedule similar to the U.S. It's interesting that the first dose there is given at 9 months, rather than 12 months, and a second dose was added only in the last couple of years. The vaccine is more effective when it is given at 12-15 months of age, and the second dose improves efficacy to nearly 100%. There is no evidence to suggest that the children of Gambia would respond any differently than the children in the U.S.

Todd W;
You have no ideal about the number of editors that will kick you off of websites and not letting your comment through, since it questions the integrity of the authors,heads of federal agencies, doctors the establishment, --- when as a parent you have witnessed your child -- no in my case children and husband have vaccine injuries.

--- and many commentors on this website have seen here - not will we see ----if they have the courage to face valid criticism - well they don't.

You are talking to a lot of people on this website that have been backed into a corner till they have no place left to go -- so don't be suprised that here in the last refuge we are snarling - position that we have not choice in the fight and flight -- to fight.

So, your comments on how you are impressed wit them letting a comment through is hardly impressing me.

Juat thought you should know.

Well, that's interesting, Todd W. The two links you provided are suddenly "not found" on the WHO website. Perhaps the word "estimates" is in the process of being removed after John Stone's comment?

I find it interesting that you are concerned about being attacked, when parents who don't vaccinate their children, or who stop vaccinating their children, or who delay the vaccine schedule for their children, or who space out the vaccines their children receive are often called "anti-vax nutters" and "anti-vax morons." Just what, exactly, are you afraid of here? You won't get that kind of disparaging comment out of me. I will never reduce myself to that level. Prepare yourself to be surprised.

I would like to ask you how you explain the very dismal infant mortality rate in the USA, when we have the most highly vaccinated population in the world with the most vaccine mandates for our infants and allegedly the best healthcare system in the world, and what your thoughts are pertinent to how Japan went from a ranking of 34th to a ranking of 3rd in infant mortality merely by delaying the vaccines they give to their babies until two years of age?

Todd W, on first reading of "Outbreaks of Measles: Should We Be Concerned," I shared your misgivings over the author's glaring omission of causes of infant death in The Gambia and Ghana. The omission struck me as manipulative,though on re-reading I see it may not have been intended that way. The actual cause of mortality speaks to the author's larger point: the need for better nutrition, sanitation, and access to health care. A little editing would clarify and strengthen an already well-documented essay.

Still the question Neil Z. Miller asks is valid: Should we be concerned about measles outbreaks? Or, more pointedly, why should we be concerned?

Todd W.

You attack the integrity of the author while putting words in his mouth - how he might have been blameworthy if he had been making a different point from the one he did. Or, shall we say "a straw man" argument. But while you cite WHO statistics about how many children died from infectious diseases of 1 in 10,000 in note the word "estimates" on th pages linked to.

Of course, the WHO can make up any figures it likes:

http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/12/the-british-dimension-the-who-mercury-cover-up-and-the-cdc.html

http://www.ageofautism.com/2013/01/not-all-mercury-is-toxic-desperate-throw-in-new-scientist-to-prevent-un-ban.html

The editors probably will not let this comment through, since it questions the integrity of the author, but we'll see if they have the courage to face valid criticism.

The article is full of quite a bit of misinformation and dishonest spin, but I'll point out just one example:

"They have very high vaccine coverage rates (a percentage of the target population that has been vaccinated), yet their infant mortality rates are dreadfully unacceptable. For example, in 2011 Gambia, a poor country in Africa, required its infants to receive multiple vaccines, vaccinated 90% to 96% of its infants (91% received measles vaccines), yet 58 of every 1000 infants still died before their first birthdays. Ghana also required its infants to receive several vaccines, vaccinated 91% to 98% of its infants (91% received measles vaccines) yet also had a dismal infant mortality rate: 52 of every 1000 infants died before their first birthdays."

The implication here is that vaccines don't work, in particular measles vaccine, but what is left out is what the actual causes of infant death in The Gambia and Ghana actually are. For instance, from the WHO Neonatal and Child Health Profile of The Gambia for 2010 (http://www.who.int/maternal_child_adolescent/epidemiology/profiles/neonatal_child/gmb.pdf), a significant cause of under-one mortality has to do with the birth itself. Children are either born prematurely or suffer trauma or injury during birth itself, leading to death. The next biggest cause of under-5 deaths is malaria, for which there is no good vaccine.

In fact, looking at the WHO's 2011 report for causes of death in 2008 by country (http://www.who.int/healthinfo/global_burden_disease/estimates_country/en/), the largest causes of death were malaria, perinatal conditions (1.5/1,000 each), respiratory infections (1.3/1,000), and diarrheal illnesses (0.9/1,000) for children under 14 years of age. Childhood infectious diseases (for which they have vaccines) only accounted for 0.1/1,000 deaths.

Vaccines have, in fact, been quite effective at reducing the burden of disease in poor countries like The Gambia. Certainly they are not the only improvement needed (improvements in infrastructure, medical care and nutrition will go a long way to improving childhood mortality rates), but they have a major impact on improved health outcomes.

I have no doubt that if the editors allow this comment through, I expect I will be insulted and attacked, but that won't surprise me.