brs

Thanks for your comment. Actually, I think you have half a point - people are trained to think things but actually if they read for themselves they would find something quite other. They are being told to leave it to the experts all the time but most people with a high school education have it well within their powers to comprehend how government sponsored statistical studies can be massaged one after another to hide effects, it is not even usually all that subtle. Anybody can read and look into the dirty tactics that were used to bring Andrew Wakefield to heel.

Doctors are of course trained and have to defer - part of this of course is inevitable but it also has ethical and intellectual problems attached.

In the case of Jon Stewart it may just be lazy, or he may just be afraid to be in the position of Jenny McCarthy, Katie Couric, Rob Schneider etc - the subject of continuing hysterical, ill-informed media attacks which have nothing to do with science and everything to do with "We'll wreck you life if you don't conform". That is training of a sort.

Just so I'm clear:

Any study ever done showing no link between vaccines and autism is part of a global conspiracy/cover-up and anything written on an anti-vaccine blog is true. Got it. Man I was way off!

************

Just so you are REALLY clear, all of those studies "could find no" link between between vaccines and autism.

It doesn't mean there isn't a link between autism and vaccines. It means that the people who would go to jail for finding such a link, were actually asked to go looking for it. And low an behold … they couldn't find it. A truly shocking outcome, if you grew up on Mars. Or had your brain transplanted with sack of rocks.

You can call that whatever the hell you want, and you can burn your degrees if that makes you feel any better. But the bottom line is that children are being poisoned by vaccines, which have never actually prevented a disease of any kind.

And if you disagree what, then by all means produce some scientific proof which shows that ANY vaccine is either safe or effective.

I won't hold my breath.

As a pediatrician I feel very bad for your constant struggle with your child's neurologic injury. I worry that blogs like this that have no foundation in scientific evidence will lead to innumerable deaths from measles, mumps, rubells, pertussus, tetanus, meningitis and other vaccine preventable illnesses. I went into this profession to try and help as many children as I could and I am so sorry that your child is suffering. However, think of the pain that other mothers will feel when they lose a child because they weren't vaccinated. I know that you moderate the comments you post here and this will probably never make it onto your site for others to read but I wanted you to know the real danger of propagating anti-vaccination rumors.

"I don't worship anyone."

"I just wish I didn't waste those 10 years in university"

Looking for a little expert worship yourself?

Talking science but walking scientism.

That is such a well written article, with such passion. I admire your courage and your humour and God love you your desire to be heard. Do hope Jon Stewart gets to read this. Your child is special as are all vaccine damaged children. Not to be sacrificed in any way, shape or form. The other side are so scared of people like you and that is why they have to demean the words you write or speak. They know the truth but are hiding behind evil. Your little one shines with glory and I send you my heartfelt thanks for this article. It touches my heart. If you have to go to his studio and hand him a copy of this article. Jon Stewart needs to read this and be humbled.

Epiguy;
Ages ago now, when first looking at studies I went into it with an open mind. I figured there had to be obvious evidence of vaccine safety.So after reading abstracts, next thing was looking at the study design.I was looking for basic things;
vax versus non vax ( Whoops , doesn't exist)
so then some even more basic things
study goes on long enough to capture actual diagnoses of autism
( average age of diagnosis is 8 years)
Studies that were based on the population were actually able to capture autism at the current population rate
( Current autism rate about 1 in 50)
Studies that contained enough participants to be statistically reliable.

Wow did I find some gems. The study that had only 100 participants and cut off looking for an autism diagnosis at age 2 but was used to "prove" vaccines didn't cause autism

The studies that supposedly were population studies that apparently weren't able to find autism diagnoses with both hands and a map (rates of 1 in 1000 or even less in a "general population" study)
Truncated ranges.. Autism diagnoses in adults using criteria that would include almost any introvert out there;

Some of them were so ridiculous I would have laughed if it wasn't so important.
I couldn't see any stats and research professor accepting that design from a student without pointing out the very serious design flaws.
Hard to "believe the science" if you actually read it.

And for PolitalGuineapig; pro gay rights here. And against the bullying of minority groups, which in this case includes people who don't want to be forced to make medical decisions against their will which may harm themselves or their child.

I'd say that's still better than the George Washington University at this point!

So who do you want to conduct this vaxx vs unvaxx study that you think will prove the quacks/anti-vaccers were right all along anyways? Who is going to fund it? If they ever did manage to do another study like that, and it found no link (again) between autism and vaccines, you all would just claim it was biased anyways. You think it should be a devote anti-science, anti-medicine, anti-vaccine researcher to do it? Cuz that wouldn't be biased at all....

No no I admitted you were right, there is a global conspiracy. I just wish I didn't waste those 10 years in university when all I needed was Google.

Just so I'm clear:

Any study ever done showing no link between vaccines and autism is part of a global conspiracy/cover-up and anything written on an anti-vaccine blog is true. Got it. Man I was way off!

Yes John, our friend ignored the irony of his mentioning children getting severely hurt and 'underlying conditions.' Among the useless studies he pointed to is the Fombonne one- where he looked at uptake in one city and prevalence of autism in the other. Perhaps someone could point out which study it was specifically. Never mind that Cochrane has declared many of them flawed beyond reason.

I think epi-guy may be a science belieber.

Nah not really back, just some down time at work. I was more curious as to how and how long it would take for one the flock to try to discredit the entire list of studies. I see you went with a combination of the Pharma Shill Gambit and the Thorsen angle. So Thorsen gets accused of fraud for buying a house, nothing to do with his studies, but that proves his data must be false. Love it. Also love how you guys refer to all his work as "the Thorsen paper(s)" even though he wasn't even the principal investigator (in academia, the authors listed on an article are listed in order of contribution to the research, papers are then referred to as Author1 et al).

Back to work...believe it or not I actually research Microbial Stewardship, arguing that doctors over prescribe antibiotics which leads to AROs (antimicrobial resistant organisms). Maybe we do have something in common....

@Cia Parker

"We need a vax/unvax study comparing rates of immune and neurological conditions of the vaxed and unvaxed."

Start with this (around 40+ articles):

http://www2.aap.org/immunization/families/faq/vaccinestudies.pdf

Cheers.

Julie Obradovic is calling out people like Stewart for what they are - bullies.

But that is not all. She has touched a raw nerve. And some of them are thugs and abusers who harass people.

Ordinary people who try to comment on these issues and have their say about vaccines causing serious harm to kids are also sick and tired of harassment bullying and abuse by organized internet thugs bullies and trolls attacking them in nasty abusive vitriolic terms and picking fights and starting flame wars or diverting the thread of the online conversation into blind alleys so no one will read on.

That is on top of the "journalists" from magazines like Forbes attacking people who have seen the kids drop before their own eyes right after a vaccine.

An example we wrote about recently was Emily "Daisy May Fatty-Pants" Willingham here:

'Court Rulings Confirm Autism-Vaccine Link - But US Forbes Magazine's "Scientist" Blogger Emily "Daisy May Fatty-Pants" Willingham Disagrees'
http://wp.me/pfSi7-1WF

[.... and no we are not name-calling - that is one of her online noms de plume - her own pen name and not our name for her].

So we see on a daily basis a cohort of some journalists and publishers instead of doing the job they should be doing of reporting the news about serious injuries caused to hundreds of thousands of US children by vaccines not only keep quiet but engage in the bullying, name-calling, harassment and thuggery themselves and which all serves to keep the extent of serious vaccine injury out of the media.

And then we have the well-known online thugs and bullies which include some of the commenters on Dr David "ORAC" Gorski's blog. Gorski himself looks like he has a contract to write a daily blog for Scienceblogs.com to spew forth vile bile and vitriol against all and any who have a contrary view to help keep scienceblogs.com high up the internet and search engine rankings. Is he paid or does he do it for fun? Every day for fun? Really?

Has no one else noted how Gorski and his fellow scienceblogs.com bloggers seem to rarely if ever miss a day's blogging? Except they seem to have Sundays "off". Even when his fellow blogger PJ Myers was on vacation Myers made sure he posted every day [except Sunday] like just posting a photograph to make sure he hit his Monday - Saturday quota. Looks pretty much like he did not get a clause in his contract letting him off posting on vacations.

And we see commenters who seem to have endless time to comment on Gorski's blog as well as popping up ubiquitously throughout the internet a multiplicity of times a day. They will all no doubt deny they are paid to do that such as Gorski's "Lilady", who is like a faithful dog.

And there are some internet thugs trolls and bullies who infest the internet and congregate at forums like Dr Ben Goldacre's Badscience forum - duly encouraged by Goldacre to engage in almost any conduct whatsoever save that Goldacre admonishes those of his band who are the bullies and thugs "I draw the line at kidnapping by the way".

So YES Julie Obradovic and everyone else - carry on calling these people out for what they are.

John .. you wrote:

"Actually, I seem to remember that Bachman originally suggested that HPV vaccine could cause retardation, which wasn't strictly accurate but was nevertheless expressing the real concern that vaccines can cause damage - which is an issue which certain people don't want in the public domain."

Here is a column from AoA on the subject:

http://www.ageofautism.com/2011/08/governor-rick-perrys-.html

As I remember events then .. Michelle Bachman had a Republican nationally televised debate with then candidate for President .. Texas Gov. Rick Perry .. during which Ms. Bachman questioned the governor's judgement when he signed legislation in Texas that would "mandate" the Gardasil vaccine for girls as young as 11.

Embarrased by the question .. the Governor admitted his mistake and stated the Texas legislature had already back-tracked from their "mandate" .. but .. the idea he would sign that mandate to begin with was enough to question his judgement as a potential presidential candidate.

It also did not help candidate Perry when it was revealed one of his top aides had close ties to Merck ..

Unfortunately, the very next day following that nationally televised debate .. a woman approached candidate Bachman and emotionally informed her that Gardisal had caused "mental retardation" in her teenage daughter.

Immediately, the issue became whether or not Gardasil caused "mental retardation" .. rather than Michelle's original issue .. which was the Governor denying parental rights of parents in Texas by mandating a vaccine for 11 year old girls.

And .. so .. with the national media's help .. the issue of "informed consent" ... who decides what vaccines a child will receive .. parents or politicians .. disappeared never to become part of the national debate on vaccines.

No person wants to be wrong. Both sides will never give in, that's just human nature. Unfortunately, neither side has cited real hard core facts that could not be disputed, or at least argued. Since the medical side that supports vaccines will never give in, even though they have NO real science to back up what they claim, and the anti-vaccine side does not know how to recognize what studies are valid and which are flawed from the start, I suggest researching the historical facts that can't be disputed by either side, and use those facts to make your points. Dr. Tim O'shea is the author of two great books based on well-researched historical facts, with dates that can be easily referenced. I suggest reading them both, and then presenting your argument for or against vaccines. They are: "The sanctity of human blood" and : "vaccination is not immunization"
As an example, it is an undeniable historical fact that the rate of infectious diseases was dropping at a very rapid rate in all countries, just before most vaccines were readily available and mass distributed.
Another is, the fact that the rates of these infectious diseases dropped at the same rates, and the exact same times in history, in both vaccinated and unvaccinated countries, so why does the vaccine get the credit?
I' a doctor, and my wife was an RN in a pediatricians office. She and her doctor killed many children with vaccines, but the deaths were not reported as vaccine reactions, but other causes. I believe the statistics that strongly indicate that adverse Vaccine reactions and deaths is very under-reported. (About 1% of the actual number). For example, here is a real-life story from my wife's practice. She vaccinated a very healthy 20 month old infant, who within minutes had a bad reaction. The ambulance was called to the doctors office, and the child was hospitalized immediately. The child regressed over the next 5 days, and experienced liver failure from the vaccine. The doctor signed the death certificate and recorded the cause od death as "liver failure" with no mention of the vaccine. A common story... So please read some factual data first, before attacking each other, and attacking this post. Present facts that you can back up, instead of posting attacks and name calling...

Would you guys, for the love of god, stop using the word bullying? You're all smug, straight suburbanites, the homecoming kings and prom queens, who never, ever, heard a cross word from their peers.
You don't know bullying- you cry and scream at one bump in the road, and get anal hemorrhoids from one comedian who made fun of a politician on the tube. Grow up.
And by the way, Michelle Bachmann is a bully herself- her district is notorious for not thinking gay people are people, which led to the suicides of several teenagers due to bullying. Not like any of you care, since you probably share the same beliefs, but I just thought I'd point that out.
Also, I'd like to point out that nothing Bachmann says is true, ever. Check out Factcheck.org for all the lies she spouted on various campaign trails. If she told me the sky was blue..I'd have to check all alternative sources, and it'd probably be green. By the way, it's Jon Stewart, not John.

So this epidemiologist doesn't even know how many vaccinations a child gets by 6 months, mentions underlying conditions (yet doesn't think they're worth studying), flogs a useless German study (that John Stone de-constructed) and ironically talks about kids getting severely hurt! No wonder he took off.

Oh, BTW, tell that angry doc (Dr. Chris Hickie) that there are other doctors out there (I believe Dr. Jensen mentioned in this blog before) who vaccinated very minimally and promotes use of probiotics and who has no autism in her practice either (Dr. Hickie maintains he has never encountered a vaccine reaction in his practice).

@ EpiGuy -
"and end up severely hurt" That's what you don't get, you idiot! Our children ARE severely HURT - following vaccination. Mine received all of his vaccines, on time through 18 months. After his 12 month well baby visit he stopped waving, stopped clapping and lost all his words but one. He has gastro problems, immune problems, problems focusing, problems with EVERYTHING. And though I don't wish ill on anyone's child - even a jerk like you, it seems that if your child did have a vaccine reaction maybe you would wake up and see that it can happen - more often than you think. That is what woke the majority of us up. The difference is people like us want to HELP people and their kids, even people like you, not suffer the same fate. You however don't seem to care about any of our children or the thousands of children in the future who are going to continue to suffer vaccine reactions until someone in the medical profession and/or government does something to stop this calamity. Obviously people like you have no interest in doing what is right, just maintaining the status quo.

@linda "Wow. Is there a soul in that body? Unbelievable."

One the one hand, EpiGuy's writing style smacks of yet another juvenile antagonistic troll. But having said that, perhaps a godless "science believer" really does need to embrace science as a place to run for cover, after a kid get thrown under a bus. Beyond an excuse, it becomes more of a coping mechanism, a way to rationalize things that would otherwise be morally reprehensible.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/death-love-sex-magic/201309/is-science-religion-non-believers

"I think I will leave the inmates to run the asylum."

Wow. Is there a soul in that body? Unbelievable.

EpiGuy

So, the science is out there somewhere, you just can't say where it is?

Ahhhhhh....too much quackery to dispute all at once!

I think I will leave the inmates to run the asylum. I hope that all of your children do not fall victim to vaccine-preventable diseases and end up severely hurt. I imagine you would feel pretty bad (actually, you would probably find a way to blame it on someone else).

The science is there, you all refuse to believe it, there is nothing more to say. Outside of your little flock, the 'vaccines cause autism' sheep are mostly thought of as a joke. I truly feel bad for you and your ignorance. In the meantime, we will do our best to make sure children are protected from disease and pseudoscience.

Anyways, gotta get back to work, my Big Pharma overlords will be upset.

@ epiguy
"If my daughter had a serious reaction to a vaccine, I would think that she more than likely had an underlying condition."

So this makes calls for vaccine safety and freedom irrational and wrong? What kind of parent uses that logic? You have a five year old who was normal one day, not normal after a vax and yet you still wouldn't blame the vax? That makes no sense whatsoever.

And the correlation does not equal causation argument only works if there is a complete absence of additional evidence like thousands of families reporting abrupt regressions post vax and billions paid by vax court to vax injured people. You have your head in the sand and it is shameful. Ignoring the ever rising tide of evidence is anti-science.

EpiGuy

I think this may be the German study you were talking about. It was of very limited value since the non-vaccinated group was 0.7% of subjects but it did not look at autism. It found but disregarded favourable results for infectious and atopic diseases in the non-vaccinated group. They could have disregarded the difference because of the tiny size of the non-vaccinated group but in that case why do the study? They say there were "no relevant" differences for ADHD but then they don't publish the data:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3057555/

PS They didn't look at autism in the two groups although surely it would have been very easy in such a loosely designed study. I wonder why not?

Epiguy,

You criticize us but how long can your side continue to ignore or write off as "anecdotal" the experience of thousands of autism parents parent who witnessed their children's regression after vaccines? In a 2010 study published in JAMA(see link below), researchers from UC Davis discovered that many of our children suffered an underlying mitochondrial dysfunction, have you looked at those studies?

Mitochondrial expert Dr. Richard Haas contends that some children may be walking a knifes edge and can be pushed over the edge into a mitochondrial dysfunction.

The CDC chose to write off Hannah's case as rare...is it? I submit that mtichondrial dysfunction, similar to what Hannah Poling suffered, is not rare. In a 2009 letter to President Obama, over 50 mitochondrial experts wrote that mito dysfunction is at the core of many common diseases such as Parkinsons, Schizophrenia, ALS, Diabetes, Alzheimers, MS and Autism.

"Mitochondria are often called the “powerhouses of the cell.” They are specialized compartments within almost every cell and are responsible for producing the energy needed by our body to sustain life. Mitochondria combine oxygen from the air we breathe with calories from food to produce the energy required for all bodily functions. If the mitochondria fail to produce sufficient energy, the cell will not function properly and organ systems will fail.

Research has revealed that mitochondrial dysfunction is at the core of many common illnesses and chronic conditions such as Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, diabetes, heart disease, obesity, osteoporosis, cancer and even the aging process. Autoimmune diseases such as multiple sclerosis, lupus and rheumatoid arthritis also may have a mitochondrial basis. There also is new evidence that mitochondrial dysfunction plays a role in the cause of some children’s autism." (source: Letter to President Barack Obama signed by over 50 Mitochondrial Experts, January 2009)

So if mitochondrial dysfunction is "at the core of many common illnesses" and research shows that there is a link
between mito dysfunction and autism which is now reported at 1 in 88 cases- then it clear to me this is COMMON and not rare.

How can we persuade your side if CDC refuses to do follow up studies on the relationship between mitochondrial dysfunction, vaccines and autism? The problem is the CDC has not done any studies to identify that subset of children who, like Hannah, have hidden mutations in the mtDNA that puts them at high risk for adverse reaction to vaccines. The CDC has never provided studies showing that key elements of the vaccine schedule including the number, timing, order, frequency and age at which shots are given are safe. Nor has the CDC required screening of infants who may be at greater risk of adverse reaction based on a family history of a mitochondrial related disease even though they admit they cannot predict how a child immune system will respond.

In 2008, Dr. Jon Poling said there many be 72,000 children like Hannah. So, why isn't the CDC investigating our families? Why hasn't anyone from the CDC talked to our families or done follow up studies on those HHS admits were injured?

Here are some related links:

Mitochondrial Dysfunction and Autism:

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=186999

Children With Autism Have Mitochondrial Dysfunction, Study Finds- Science Daily 2010

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/11/101130161521.htm

An Open Letter from Dr. Jon Poling to Dr. Steven Novella

http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/03/dr-jon-poling-o.html#more

Full text of the letter to President Barack Obama signed by over 50 Mitochondrial Experts about Mitochondrial dysfunction, January 2009:

http://www.solacenutrition.com/reading-room/mitochondrial-disease/mitochondrial-research-letter.html

ABC news story on the possible link between vaccines, Mitochondrial disease and autism. Dr. Timothy Johnson interviews Dr. Bruce Cohen, a Neurologist at the Cleveland Clinic.

http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=5287814

An interview with Dr. Poling related to same topic

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Story?id=5276589&page=1

@False

"I have 2 questions, if I may (I'm honestly curious, blah blah blah)

1. If you had a child that had a severe reaction to one or more vaccinations that caused brain damage or even death, would you still continue to worship your vaccines and pray to the high priest Offit?

2. If it turns out that the government, the CDC, and the pharmaceutical industry has indeed been covering up evidence of the extent of vaccine injuries, would that cause you to question your dogma? (I'm pretty sure the answer to this one is a big, fat "NO!!")"

Answers:

1. I don't worship anyone. I believe in the science behind vaccination. If my daughter had a serious reaction to a vaccine, I would think that she more than likely had an underlying condition. I would not join a crusade to try to make other children vulnerable to vaccine preventable diseases.

2. If this was PROVEN, then yes I would be really pissed!

EpiGuy

Maybe the only stupid person is you. Correlation does not equal causation but then you are an epidemiologist so you are trying to have it both ways. What people on this website are all too aware of is that unfortunately infants have adverse reactions to vaccines, suffer encephalopathies etc and only an ethical idiot wouldn't be concerned at the frequency, and the cavalier bureaucratic disregard for such events.

"The problem is that we (the science side) will never accept your anecdotes and conspiracy theories and you will never accept the evidence we present."

At least you're being honest here. You realize that you will never accept evidence that contradicts your established paradigm. Which I find very interesting; this is the opposite of how science works.

"My issue is that by promoting anti-vaccination you are putting people at risk."

Another interesting comment. One that is actually contradicted by the science you propose to worship. According to science, real science, vaccination rates are higher than they've ever been here in the US. And yet, we hear about all of these outbreaks of vaccine preventable diseases among vaccinated individuals. If you believe the media and the pharmaceutical industry, these outbreaks are the worst since the Black Plague. They are practically lining the streets with the dead.

It's so convenient to point fingers and post hate-filled rants and rhetoric against those who have concerns about vaccinations than to realize that the vaccines that you worship and pray to may be failing.

I have 2 questions, if I may (I'm honestly curious, blah blah blah)

1. If you had a child that had a severe reaction to one or more vaccinations that caused brain damage or even death, would you still continue to worship your vaccines and pray to the high priest Offit?

2. If it turns out that the government, the CDC, and the pharmaceutical industry has indeed been covering up evidence of the extent of vaccine injuries, would that cause you to question your dogma? (I'm pretty sure the answer to this one is a big, fat "NO!!")

'They have done retrospective case studies which showed no causation between vaccinations and autism,...'

Link?

If you have evidence that giving twenty seven vaccine doses in the first six months of life can't cause any long term health outcomes such as autism I would love to see it. To extrapolate from studies of MMR and ethyl mercury, regardless of their quality, to such a statement is so far into the realm of the absurd that it is hard to find words for it.

The widening of the vaccine schedule over the last twenty five years has been accompanied by large rises in disorders of the immune system, and anybody with a grain of common sense would be doing everything to find out of the two are connected.

@Mike

So your basic argument is that the number of vaccinations have increased, and autism spectrum disorder diagnoses have also increased, therefor they must be related, no other reason can possibly be responsible for this. By that logic, every summer when ice cream sales increase, so do the number of drownings, therefor ice cream causes drownings.

I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say "the good ol days" do you mean when vaccine preventable diseases were still running rampant and autism spectrum disorders were under-diagnosed?

Please send me links to the sources of all your info, I would really like to read it. Here is a cool chart to look at too: http://www.behance.net/gallery/Vaccine-Infographic/2878481

Thanks for calling me a douche bag by the way, not bullyish of you at all!

Mr. Science EpiGuy, you obviously are a person that simply thinks that ALL VACCINES ARE GOOD. Maybe you can volunteer for Paulie Profits 100,000 a day vaccine research study. On the flip side, you wrongfully assume that those of us who are first hand witnesses to the damage that vaccines can cause think all vaccines are bad. Not the case with me. Do me a favor next time you are down in the lab generating all your "research" that proves vaccines don't cause autism -- look at the overall health of children back in the good ol' days when we had about 10 vaccines on the schedule compared to the health of children today when there is no such thing as a bad vaccine. Take a peek at the autism rates in countries that still follow a more reasoned schedule and compare that to the good ol' US where we are now working on a vaccine against the common cold. Let me know what you find out. When you provide blanket immunity for an unsafe product and allow makers of that product to create unlimited demand and pair that with a Doctor delivery system promoted by government and the "serious science" (i.e. bought and paid for by BigPharma) douche bags like you you have a recipe for disaster.

Epi guy .. just curious .. no malice intended .. does your pseudonym have anything to do with the manufacture or profit from the growing market of "epi-pens" .. used for emergency ... life saving treatment .. of children suffering anaphylaxic shock .. due to numerous allergies .. including peanuts .. or .. juvenile type 1 diabetes .. both conditions far less common in all previous .. less vaccinated .. generations?

As I understand it .. there are as many or more "epi-pens" in a public school classroom today then there are regular pencils. Quite a growing market for the manufacturers .. eh?

My friend, judging by your comments .. you are more a "sophist" than a "scientist" .. a requirement for any "expert" that refuses to support pending federal legislation that seeks to fund an independent, scientific study of "vaccinated v. unvaccinated" populations .. to ascertain .. scientifically .. if BOTH populations have suffered the same inexplicable, dramatic increase in chronic autoimmune disorders .. which have created the hugely successful epi-pen market.

GREAT letter. Have you linked him to it or called his show to let them know it is out there? Please try that or if anyone else knows how to help him see this page, it would be awesome. Perhaps if he saw how many of us are out here, hurting and deeply upset by his meanness on this, he would rethink it.
And epiguy--We parents speak out because it is our obligation to save others from the fate that happened to us. Pharma attacks us because they have no financial interest in figuring out which infants should not get certain vaccines. We are motivated by compassion for the children of others, they are motivated by greed and a desire to ignore inconvenient truths about vaccines. Tell me, which of us is more apt to be telling the truth? Atleast give us respect for our attempts to make vaccines safer.

HOW CAN ANYONE BE AGAINST MAKING VACCINES SAFER? HOW CAN ANYONE BE AGAINST FIGURING OUT WHO GETS HURT FROM THEM AND COMPENSATING THEM AND PREVENTING THIS? ? ? ?HOW DID THIS CRAZY ORWELLIAN ATTACK THE PARENTS OF INJURED INFANTS THING EVEN HAPPEN?

I wrote a similar letter to Rolling Stone magazine recently regarding attacks on Bachman for her vaccine comment. Hey, a stopped clock is right twice a day. When Michele Bachman told about the brain damaged victim of Gardisil, not ONE journalist tried to track down that story and actualyl find out if there was a real Mom with a real child. Not one. Either the one Bachman alluded to, or any other one. Not one journalist thought "where there's smoke there must be fire" and tried to even read the package insert to see the truth about this issue. . . I too, have deep issues with nearly everything Bachman says. But not this one. Even the birther story that she spouted, idiotic as it was, was investigated, dissected, and proved wrong. But no one bothered to read the package insert, no one bothered to find out if there are injured children. I wonder if pharma is deliberately reinserting this story over and over again . . . I too was so saddened by Stewart jumping on this bandwagon--I too watch him nearly--well--Daily. I am not sure I can ever enjoy his show again. He has lost considerable credibility. And I never realized he was mean. I'm sorry, but joking about a brain damaged child--that may in fact be real--no one bothered to track down that story as I said--is not funny. And it's hurts the tens of thousands of us with vaccine injured children. Remember--great truths are ridiculed, then they are violently opposed, then they are accepted as truth. . . (can't remember who said this, but it's, well, true).

My "Viewer feedback:"
While I may not support Michelle Bachman, generally, she speaks the truth, regarding the possibility of vaccine injury. The Supreme Court has declared vaccines to be "Unavoidably Unsafe." Because they inhabit this zone, and the manufacturers expressed concern that they might be sued out of existence due to harm caused by their products, so the US Federal Government enacted legislation which exempts the manufacturer from liability for harm to recipients of their vaccines. According to the prescribing Information for many vaccines, they can cause brain damage, death, and myriad other conditions and disabilities. While I understand that a large percentage of advertising revenue is gained in the Network's support of PhRMA, and I get that PhRMA is attempting to gain every shred of market share they can (and they have learned educated people are rejecting their schedule of 32 needles before baby turns 24 months old; and that educated people make decisions based upon what their friends think, and, since we view Jon Stewart as our "friend," his opinion might sway us to take our infant for injection with mercury, formaldehyde, and other known teratogens, mutagens, carcinogens, and poisons...), but, I am extraordinarily disappointed that Comedy Central chose this particular forum to push the PhRMA agenda...This was the very last bastion of thoughtful and thought-provoking programming! Please encourage the Daily Show's independence from propaganda -- if not for the pure enjoyment of all, for the sanity of the parents of severely vaccine-injured children; we are struggling financially, spiritually, physically, and financially just to make it through each day -- his show is often the only place we can go to catch the "news" AND a chuckle. For what it is worth, my daughter's vaccines at 3.5 months left her with Epilepsy, hippocampal sclerosis, antibodies to her own myelin, hypotonia, global developmental delay, failure to thrive, metabolic dysfunction, gi dysfunction, and much more -- the symptoms of these disorders combine to qualify my daughter as "Severely Autistic..."

EpiGuy gets his pseudoscience from Pharma, and his people skills from World of Warcraft.

Epi guy-- Deep down, I know Sam Harris is a genocidal nut and James Randi is a eugenicist and the folks from Science Blogs think these two are keen. And that's the reason you won't post sources-- they all lead back to the same creepy hub. Not sure about accounts of Michael Shermer's scientific ability to keep his Skeptic pants zipped, but we'll have to keep an eye on it (so to speak).

Thank you for posting this Julie. I am a huge Jon Stewart fan. I record all of his shows on my DVR and I try to watch them whenever I get a chance. Same with Stephen Colbert. I have to tell you, this is the NOT the first time he made the joke about Michele Bachmann and her statement that vaccines cause brain injury. I can cite two other occasions he did this. I felt like I was punched in the gut. I did not know what was worse, the idea that Jon Stewart thinks of me as nutcase because I am convinced that vaccines caused my son's brain injury and seizures or that I was put in the position to defend Michele Bachmann. Uggggh. I never did take any action but I think I will write Jon Stewart to let him know that over 2 Billion Dollars has been compensated for people that had a vaccine related injury or death. I am surprised that he would do this, not because of his politics but because he started an Autism Charity which I think came about from Robert Smigel. I believe they are close colleagues and Robert Smigel has a son with autism.

EXCELLENT AND POWERFUL READ. THANK YOU,

Thank you, Julie, for everything you do for our families!

Dear Jon,
Read the facts before you go on air and help hurt more families.

A few weeks ago he had on the author of "The Reason I Jump" about a boy with autism and he raved about the book and I think the author mentioned that he knew Jon was involved in autism charities. I really hope he reads this & thinks twice about joking about a painful subject. But unfortunately, unless you know that your child is part of the collateral damage, it is largely ignored and we are made to look like desperate fools. I guess I should appreciate that he 'cares' about autism, but at the end of the day he does not go home to a struggling child so I guess it's just easier to make the subject of brain damage a punchline.

"EpiGuy" should change his name to the more factually specific "Lowest Rung On The Evidentiary Ladder Guy."

Apparently tinkering with statistics and pimping them under the shield of "science" is the modern way to excuse one's lack of medical ethics.

I would like to ask Jon Stewart how much money his shows takes in from pharmaceutical advertising

@ Beth

I read Paul Offit's "The Cutter Incident" .. that occurred when 200,000 people were inadvertently injected with live virulent polio virus: 70,000 became ill, 200 were permanently paralyzed, and 10 died. Offit blamed the "Cutter Incident" for eroding the public's confidence and trust in vaccines .. as well as .. scaring the hell out of vaccine manufacturers who realized the financial disaster a single "bad batch" of vaccines could cost their corporations in the future.

Anyway .. one of the main "lessons learned" by Offit was .. to advise vaccine manufacturers to spread the distribution of vaccines .. as you said .. "wide and far" .. because the wider area would make it much more difficult for parents and public health authorities to quickly ascertain a particular "batch" was causing problems than if the distribution .. as in The Cutter Incident ... was made within a smaller, localized area.

I remember being struck by the cold-heartedness that Offit revealed .. being that he appeared .. unashamedly .. far more worried about preserving the "reputation of vaccines as safe and harmless" .. than he was about repeating the disaster of the 70,000 who became ill from Cutter's "bad batch".

If it wasn't vaccines .. these people would be recognized and prosecuted for the criminals they are.

Wow, John Stone himself actually replied to me! I am honoured. ha.

The thing is there IS no debate, at least there shouldn't be. Vaccines don't cause autism. It's a scientific fact....you know what, I'm not even going to bother to lay out all the science as we (science believers) have done a thousand times over. You people have your mind made up and do not listen to reason. As much as you get rational people's blood boiling with your lies, deep down inside I think we mostly pity you.

And besides, deep down inside you, way down at the bottom, you know you are wrong.

Also, Jon, regarding this "batch of bad flu “jab”. You should know that in the US when scores of children in Tennessee were harmed by a bad batch of vaccines, the industry and public health response was reprehensible. There was a new policy instituted of splitting vaccine batches and shipping them far and wide so that the effects of the inevitable bad batches would be diluted.

My daughters batch of vaccine that she had a brain swelling and encephalitic reaction to - killed a baby in NC and there were reports of injuries from at least 7 states total when I looked up her batch # in the VAERS system. An inquiry to the FDA produced a rubbish response that "there is no such thing as bad batches."

Think about that...manufacturing...no bad batches...ever. Are Americans really that stupid?

Too bad because I love Jon Stewart too. I hope he listens.

July 20, 2005 Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. on the Daily Show:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-july-20-2005/robert-f--kennedy--jr-

Stewart: "Most recently you were talking about the link between autism and vaccinations. Pretty controversial."

Kennedy: "It's not all vaccinations. Between 1989 and 2003, almost all of our vaccinations included a material called thimerosal, which breaks down to form mercury. It was a preservative. It was unnecessary to add to vaccines. And we saw during that period, a dramatic increase in neurological disorders among American children. Today, one in every six American children born during that period has some kind of neurological disorder: speech delay, language delay, dyslexia, and at the opposite end of the range, autism. Autism rates in 1988, before they started adding all these vaccines, one in every 2,500 children had autism, today one in every 166 children have autism. And there is very, very strong science, really overwhelming science, linking those autism rates to the thimerosal that was in the vaccines. The thimerosal, people should know, has been removed from most of the vaccines in America. We still have it in the flu vaccine and in one or two other. But we are still giving it to children all over the world and there's now been a dramatic increase in the Third World in autism rates. A few years ago, six years ago, autism was unknown in China. We started giving them our vaccines in 1999, today there's 1.8 million cases of autism in China. . . . (Stewart is nodding and looking concerned here.)

"If you actually read the science, which most journalists don't do, the science is overwhelming that there is a link between the autism and the thimerosal."

Stewart: "So where then is the controversy? There are certain issues, if true, if validated, do boggle your mind with a sense of humanity. If these vaccine makers, or if the FDA, or other people are allowing a certain compound into these vaccinations that's causing autism and they now know it, why are they fighting so hard to keep that--- Is it purely to save their asses, are they concerned about people then rejecting vaccines in general and then the public health suffers. I mean clearly a lot of these people are not malevolent."

Kennedy: "There appear to be two concerns. One is the pharmaceutical industry is terrified of the litigation. This is literally trillions of dollars of damage. Each autistic kid, if you have a kid with autism in your family, it shatters your family. so that's concern with the pharmaceutical industry. There's also a concern with scientists at CDC and the FDA, the federal agencies that green lighted [thimerosal].
Congressman Weldon who's a right-wing Republican Congressman who's also investigated this issue and is convinced that there's a link, what he says is that how many of us would want to admit that a decision we made had poisoned a whole generation of American children.

"The principal kind of benevolent rationale is that the federal agencies and the pharmaceutical companies want to make sure that the people don't get scared off of vaccines. What I've been saying is people are going to be frightened of vaccines if they don't trust the federal regulators to be honest with the American people. And the biggest threat to our vaccine program is that these people have now been caught red-handed conspiring to hide this information from the American people."

Stewart: "You've tried to talk about this publicly and there a real interesting story about what happened to you with ABC News where they had shot a story for you concerning the link ."

Kennedy: "I had pieces coming out, the cover story of Salon.com and Rolling Stone simultaneously published the same piece. We had an exclusive deal with ABC to air the piece, to air a story about the piece on ABC Nightly News and Good Morning America. ABC told us they had read the piece, we gave them an exclusive so we didn't pitch it to the other networks. They told us that they believed in the story, that they were behind it. They wanted to be the network to expose this to the American people. The night before the piece aired, I received a call from the producer saying ABC has cancelled the piece. The order came from higher up at the network. They won't explain why they're doing it. Two days later, ABC was deluged with letters from the autism community, mainly mothers who have autistic kids. Hundreds and hundreds of emails. This is what the producer told me. And he said we are no longer going to cancel it. We're going to air it but we're going to recut it. They recut the show, but they recut it to make it virtually an advertisement for the pharmaceutical industry. And indeed, as if to emphasize the capitulation to big pharma, they bracketed the segment that they did on thimerosal with two ads for pharmaceutical products. (Stewart is smiling broadly here.)

"I have no idea what happened at ABC. I can't look into their heads and see what happened but that series of events was suspicious."

Stewart: "And if nothing else it does seem that it's very hard to argue the idea that putting mercury in things---some people would argue that we're surrounded by all sorts of mercury contaminates in everything and the vaccines aren't as much. But with so many passionate people on the case of it, there must be something there. Where there's smoke there's fire."

Kennedy: "I got into this serendipitously; it's not really my area. I've been working on environmental mercury for many years, from power plants. In nineteen states it's now unsafe to eat any freshwater fish because of mercury that's coming from our power plants."

Stewart: "It's a remarkable story. I wish we had more time but I appreciate you getting the word out and I know parents of kids with autism truly appreciate---and I know it's a very difficult thing for them to be dealing with so I'm sure they appreciate the help."

Julie, you have an amazing ability to put things into words!

I am suffering everyday bc of gardasil! Family members tell me that people are sick everyday and still go to work. That I am taking the easy way out. They say I should be thankful I'm not like other children dying. Also have the nerve to tell me my mom is the one making me sick. They say that bc my mom is the only one who really takes care of me. It's very frustrating an depressing. I know this article all to well