Things to Know or Do When You’re Up Against a Vaccine Bully
October is National Bully Prevention Month. It is National Vaccine Injury Month.
Ironic, no?
Here are some recent vaccine-related news articles posted on the web during October:
High Court Orders Two Sister Must Receive MMR Vaccine
Announcing UK Government Considering Mandatory Whooping Cough Vaccine for Newborns
Flu Shots During Pregnancy Reduce Autism Risk
Could A Vaccines for PTSD Protect Soldier?
Gates Foundation Introduces Trendy New Bracelets as Ridiculous Marketing Ploy to Push Vaccines
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My head spins when I see headlines like those above. But, to the average reader, they may truly not know why some of the content of those stories are absolutely ridiculous. The reader may not be aware of the many risks of vaccinating or realize how much money goes into this industry. This happens when mainstream news refuses to offer both sides of the vaccine story.
I get several phone calls and emails every month from parents asking for help when they see similar headlines in the news. I get questions like: What can I do when my doctor isn’t listening to me? Why is my doctor bullying me about this? What do I say if I don’t want all those shots? What should I bring to the appointment to prove what he’s saying about vaccines and autism is wrong? I let parents know that the best thing that they can, and should do, is to learn as much as they can. I tell them to be ready to speak up when it’s time and to never forget it’s their child—not the doctor’s, that they are bringing into the exam room. I also suggest to these parents to read. Read. Read. Read. Read. Read. And then read some more. Knowledge truly is power, and applying that knowledge can be very powerful.
In the past, the places I spend the most time discussing vaccines, vaccine safety and how autism is linked to vaccines occurs in an exam room with one of my son’s medical providers as well as on blogs, message boards and in the comments of web-based articles. In the exam room, some doctors and medical staff are adamant about “No vaccines? No service.” Fine! I say. I’d rather take my children to someone else who actually respects them and their health. It may be more costly to find a different provider, but their life is absolutely worth it.
Online discussions about vaccines can be no different. Depending on the vaccine topic or fact being discussed, reported or distorted, I’ve run into hostile individuals who refuse to hear me out. “You don’t like them? Conversation OVER.” I learned the hard way that some people aren’t worth engaging. Fortunately, the last encounter I had with someone online who rudely represented the pro-vaccine camp hasn’t had a repeat. Easily I could have decided to never discuss vaccines online again with how negative that interaction was. But I decided I wouldn’t walk away completely. I can’t because those quietly witnessing the conversation later seek me out offline. Not wanting to chime in directly, they ask questions behind the scenes and appreciate my perspective as the parent of a vaccine-injured child and ask for advice.
New parents on the scene, the lurkers who’ve just made the autism-vaccine link discovery, are listening intently to those conversations. Those lurkers are sometimes on the fence about the decision they face. Some of them want solid answers and would expect them from professionals they trust. But how do they trust someone who’s banking off of their medical decisions: Should I vaccinate? I think I might. Maybe not all at once though like my friend did with her kid. He’s been so sick after all those shots and now has autism. Doctors say the autism has nothing to the shots, but I know it wasn’t there before the shots. What if I don’t vaccinate? My doctor keeps badgering me like I’m doing something wrong. I hate it. He always says, “You know your baby best…” and then hounds me to do what he wants to do. He says my kids have to have all these shots, SO many of them, to get into school. I called the school and they take vaccine exemptions, so why is my doctor pressuring me so badly?
New parents have questions. New parents want answers. What’s a new parent, or any parent for that matter, to do as they start asking what seems like an innocent question about vaccines either in the exam room or on the internet?
# 1 – Do stay calm. Online trolls love vaccine drama. Pharma shills do too. They get off on their wordsmithing, their debating skills and how much of your time they can waste. If it’s in the exam room that you raise a question or concern, and if it’s an ill-informed doctor or pushy nurse you’re up against, be prepared well ahead of time with what you want to ask, say or point out. Because your knowledge directly benefits your child’s health, stay calm, know your stuff and be ready to stand your ground. Keep in mind that some practices benefit from doling out pharmaceutical products. The more you know about where your doctor’s loyalty lies, the stronger you can be with the decisions or statements you want to make.
# 2 – Do show them the studies. Back in the day this may have been hard to do. But, with the internet teeming with reliable, scientifically-based data, all one has to do is point out where the studies are. Ginger Taylor gathered studies as did TACA . You’ll see plenty of links to copy, paste, print and share. The next step once you’ve swapped studies? Ask them to read your stacks of facts. Make sure you’ve read theirs also. Don’t be shy. You’ll need to read them, too, because you’ll want to know how to counter them politely with science. If they won’t catch up to what you’re presenting, then you might feel that there’s no need to continue to argue/debate/beat your head against the wall with them. If, by chance, they do catch up, and if for instance, the argument is vaccines cause autism, follow up with a cordial reply asking if they need more proof that autism can result from vaccinations, share that the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program has compensated families for their child’s autism which resulted from vaccinations. Remember that you may never get them to switch teams and join the vaccine safety camp, but you can plant tons of seeds to get them to think outside of their pharma-funded pro-vaccine box.
# 3 – Do know the lingo. Some of these types of conversations come down to semantics. One of the biggest red flags that pro-vaccinators like to wave, and is utterly incorrect, is when they immediately reference what happened to Dr. Wakefield: “Dr. Wakefield’s study was debunked!” This is when things can get especially heated and is the biggest clue for you: Run. Just run. They aren’t worth your time. They are also showing how immature and wrong they are. But, if you want to stick around and try to educate them, by all means, tell them the facts. Tell them that, first of all, it was not a study; it was a paper. Second, if they’d actually read the paper, they would know that Wakefield, et al never said what the media says they said. Third, the crucification, of Wakefield was spurred by news reporters in the mainstream media who simultaneously flooded most of what we were reading in the newspapers. Fourth, these anti-Wakefielders were duped by the very people they adamantly continue to defend because of the misinformation the newspapers reported. Not until these folks take themselves out of the mainstream media circus sideshow act atmosphere will they be able to realize the truth. Their heads deeply buried in the sand still to see that yet.
# 4 - Do know what is going on with the “autism is only genetic” or “vaccines save lives” types of articles in mainstream news. We all want to be well rounded, well versed and well aware of what all sources of media have to say about this very important topic. Learn to decipher what is fact, what is fiction and what is out right fear mongering. Reading all of the news coming out of the media is a good idea. Some of the stories may be hard to stomach, especially the “autism is only genetic” ones, but they are worth the read too. Read them to know what those who refuse to believe in the autism-vaccine link are saying. Get to know who these writers are. Check out who they are quoting and who prints or publishes the information they’re sharing. Big hint: just because the title Doctor comes before their name doesn’t mean he or she has your best health interest in mind. And, just because he or she is elected or nominated to their role doesn’t mean he or she isn’t being persuaded to tell only one side of the story.
# 5 – Do comment. When new parents learn the facts, and as they become more comfortable supporting (and defending) the truth, their voice inevitably will get stronger. Tell your doctor what you’ve learned and that your decision about vaccines, even if it counters his, should be respected. Don’t be afraid to leave your thoughts in the comment section on news articles. If someone is disputing that autism is caused by anything but genetics, tell them what you know! Trolls and shills spend hours and hours countering parents and providers. Do the same. Do it as much and as many times as you can. Don’t tire of it because you never know who is lurking on the thread, article or blog post. Those lurkers may be soaking in everything you are saying.
# 6 – Never ever give up. Parents usually want the best for their children. Parents concerned about vaccines have committed to doing a 180⁰ on their child’s health when it’s been negatively affected. The stronger your convictions are about vaccines and vaccine safety, the louder your own voice becomes. The newfound knowledge, dedication and faith that you find in yourself is invaluable and very well could help the next new parent down the road.
Now, if you get tired, because I know you will, take a break. Avoid blogs during the full moon (oy!). If you have to, find a new doctor who respects you, your child and your family’s wishes. Take time to read as much as you can. Speak up when you are strong enough because someone somewhere has heard you and will heed your advice. Be ready to go through # 1 -5 again. Keep # 6 close by. You never know when your words and actions will help save a life.
Cathy Jameson is a Contributing Editor for Age of Autism.
I agree with this article...I have encountered my fair share of trolls and sheeple as I call them...Some people who hurtle the insults are just people who really believe undeniably their belief in vaccination possibly due to where they live...like In Australia where this no jab no pay thing is going on and some of these people just can't see the other side...I do attempt to see their side..while sharing my extensive 26year RN in the NICU experience of giving vaccines...being pro vaccine, until the vaccine I was given for the flu didn't agree with me and then I began to research and learn and be SERIOUSLY humbled not to mention realize that here in the US we have to GIVE OUR PERMISSION TO BE VACCINATED...this is something I know the trolls like to just gloss over as do many healthcare folks...If something requires your legal consent..and cannot be given until that consent is obtained, then the consent from the receiver can be refused..otherwise there would be no need for this legal consent...Parents feel scared about ROCKING the boat, but this is important to remember...all bullying aside...we are afforded the right to legally refuse this VACCINE DUE TO THE LEGAL CONSENT HAVING TO BE GIVEN..so you have to be prepared both with your facts, your reasons and then in the end...when the bullying is still quite loud..you bring up the whole BUT YOU CAN'T PROCEED WITHOUT MY LEGAL BINDING CONSENT ..AND ONLY PROCEDURES DEEMED RISKY ENOUGH REQUIRE THIS THIS LEGAL CONSENT..so..You as a parent HAVE A RIGHT TO NOT CONSENT...their anger is their own...the doc or healthcare people...don't let it ruffle you...You Hired the Doctor..the Doctor didn't hire you..and that is another thing I bring up...I literally say it like that...I hired you Dr. you didn't hire me..to care for me..you didn't knock on my door and tell me I was your hired patient...It's me hiring you and so therefore bullying me, etc has no place in this arena...I won't tolerate it..so..if we can proceed with an open mind and respect MY wishes and questions then we can possibly work something out...otherwise doctor, you are fired...Parents and patients need to realize that they themselves are ultimately in charge and you can walk away...I know..the whole Against Medical Advice...you sign a waver..but I cannot imagine that vaccination...falls under this category...this is an invasive not completely safe procedure..
Posted by: Carolyn | March 06, 2017 at 03:11 PM
Talk about shills. One mention of the word "mumps" brings 4 horror stories of people who claim they had mumps, 2 from people that never post at all. #54,#58, #59, #60.
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/08/16/a-holistic-doctor-throws-a-hilariously-disingenuous-tantrum-over-board-recertification/comment-page-1/#comment-444471
Just wait a few weeks and remind them that mumps is basically harmless; then watch the shills come out.
Johnny:My balls swelled up to the size of my fist.
Christine Rose: I was seriously f***ed over by mumps
Apparently Chris has had Mumps and Denge Fever as well, a confabulation that he used as prelude to his Kill Mosquitos War Chant.
Just what the world needs; more pesticides.
Posted by: Narad | August 17, 2016 at 12:47 AM
I recently got involved with a probable pro-vaccine shill, Dorit Reiss and her cronies. It was exhausting. I held my own. It was pretty entertaining and funny because she and a couple of her cohorts said predictably what I was warned about. They called me derogatory names, like idiot, delusional nut, conspiracy nut, etc., tried to talk circles around me, mentioned conspiracy theories like holocaust deniers, moon landing deniers, fluoride conspiracy theorists, etc. and gibberish like unicorns. It was so classic. Right out of the playbook. I've done a lot of research on vaccines, autism, their safety, etc. I'm not some uninformed newbie that just read a random blurb on some random website. Take the advice of this article if you ever get sucked into a argument with these people. This is pretty much their m.o.
Posted by: Tammy Friedman | March 04, 2014 at 02:50 AM
someone@hotmail.com
Your little blog is the exact kind of bullying we be a talking about.
Thanks for the example.
Meanwhile I hope are well, you must be.
Only when you or your family are sick enough around you do you look at low carb diets -- that by the way was the only way to treat epilepsy as far back as Jesus and the Roman empire right on up untill the 1960s when they discovered dilantin.
Not much money in telling someone to just eat bacon and cream, and in the 1950s they added coconut oil to those epilepsy diets which helped even more.
Diet alone actually cured close to 40 plus something percent of the epilespy cases and helped - made a differences in the number of seizures for the rest.
Really I doubt if you are worth my time that I took typing this.
Posted by: Benedetta | December 31, 2013 at 11:55 AM
This is bad. You are spreading hippie propoganda bullsh*t and contributing to the possible comeback of once erradicated diseases. You are also compromising the health and safety of other children. Just because something is "in" doesnt mean its true. Be vegan. Be paleo. Or whatever new trendy ridiculous diet is en vouge now. But this autism/vaccine correlation has NO actual facts to back it!
Posted by: someone@hotmail.com | December 30, 2013 at 09:40 PM
Politicalguineapig; I think you have us wrong here. We are the ones who don't write off our kids,we are not the ones who do nothing to help them gain life skills, and then send them to institutions when they age out of school.We try and help them as best we can, even if "recovery" only means they can say enough words to ask for the type of food they want. That can still be enough to make our childrens' lives better for them.
The people who don't bother are the ones who don't want to invest any energy in what you term "less than perfect" kids..
By the way, my neighbor is the mother of two adopted babies,(biological mom was a drug addict) and the kids are great but do have some challenges. She asked my husband and me if we would be willing to take them if anything happened to her and her (now ex) husband. We said of course. she was relieved because as she said, her rich brothers family only does "perfect" kids. It was a great compliment, we thought.
Out of interest, has anyone paid you a similar compliment?
Posted by: Hera | November 04, 2013 at 03:58 PM
Politicalguineapig,
Overlooking the moronic judgmental stereotyping in the first half of your statement, to comment on the second half:
How should one cope with, care for and raise "a child who isn't perfect"? Shouldn't grieve ("boo-hoo")? Shouldn't look for a cause? Would you also do away with professional etiologists because they are 'blaming everyone in their path'? What is the correct way to go about life with a sick child in your book? Just accept that the child is sick, "isn't perfect", and not question, not research, not try to find the cause to stop whatever may still be harming that child and to attempt to prevent it from happening to other children?
Posted by: Linda | November 04, 2013 at 12:00 PM
Politicalguineapig
That rather busts the irony meter doesn't it? Everyone has to shut up and bow to your (misogynist) demonstration of unpleasantness. Or was it a joke?
Posted by: Mercky Business | November 04, 2013 at 11:39 AM
Like you ladies would know bullying. You tripped through life on primrose paths, probably were prom queens and cheerleaders, top of the heap in high school and later college. And now that you have a child who isn't perfect, you boo-hoo and blame everyone in your path.
Posted by: Politicalguineapig | November 04, 2013 at 11:25 AM
Quickest way I know to end the conversation is to ask the person if they are aware that US infants get the hep b series right at birth (in many other Countries we don't). This usually shocks them and makes them think. You can literally see the wheels turning.
Someone I know who works in an old folks home said they threatened her with no pay if she got sick and had refused flu shot. How would they even k ow it was flu of she were ever sick? Would they swab? What if she gets sick with the shot? What then? Would this kind of threat even be legal??
Posted by: Quickwaytoendtheconversation. | October 22, 2013 at 03:55 PM
Thank you so much for posting this. I have spent the last two years reading as much about vaccines as I could. My children were sick and one of my children is on the Autism Spectrum. It's been rewarding, but so hard to debate all the time. We have lost friends over this and often feel like outsiders wherever we are. It's a little like seeing the naked emperor and never being able to forget what you've seen. I have to speak the truth now. I know too much to be silent and let more and more children get hurt. It's costly though.
Posted by: Karen Monahan | October 22, 2013 at 03:27 PM
Hi Twyla; just read your comment. Please keep posting. seeing your voice on a thread somewhere always gives me a comforted feeling; your posts have been full of reason, kindness and good sense for years.
There are times when I can barely keep my head above water at home,and don't post much,if at all. Other times when I am ready to enter the fray again ( once more unto the breach, dear friends..)
Posting is really important though ;you never know who is lurking and reading, or even what piece of information you are going to provide that may be the point that encourages someone else to really start looking into the studies.
By the way, please don't worry too much about having 'just' a BA. As far as I can tell most of the people you are arguing with have much less education than that; a couple of people in some of the threads who have claimed PHDs online seem imo to be VERY unlikely. (for what it's worth, I've got a graduate degree,( masters) .
Hasn't really helped any in the arguments, and don't normally point it out ,because honestly half the people who are claiming degrees in these online discussions it seems likely, probably don't really have them.
Do tend to assume though that most people who state they are doctors or RNs really are, since there are some definite legal implications to lying about that.
Of course, as you will notice in the case for example of Janet Shapiro, her highest degree is only a BSN ( Bachelor of Science in Nursing.) The CDE following her name, is at a guess "Certified Diabetic Educator".
So Twyla, please whenever you can, keep posting. You have fans out there who really appreciate your kind and well thought out comments!!!
Posted by: Hera | October 21, 2013 at 11:49 PM
Janet:
You are so clueless! The government admits to giving people polio by accident in the vaccines as well as the cancer virus, SV40, and to also causing the great polio epidemic. You say you saw kids struggle to breathe. What the heck? I don't know anyone who has not struggled to breathe from an infection at some point, and often numerous times in their life. We have had 105 fevers in my regretfully, vaccinated family, and guess what, nearly half with autism have seizures. And guess what esle, cancer doesn't run in my family or extended family, yet the public rate is 40%. So, if I went by your thinking, I would have to deny 40% of the population gets cancer since my family doesn't. You are wasting your time talking to us here. I actually do research and reversed many conditions in my family that mainstream doctors have NO clue about how to. Doctors ask me advice, and many of them admit to not learning much in college. Go to love this internet!!!!!
Posted by: Heidi N | October 21, 2013 at 10:59 PM
Thanks for this information. I found it helpful and has motivated me to keep on commenting and learn to comment more effectively. It can feel discouraging when attacked by trolls and shills. I usually ignore them.
I don't have personal experience with vaccine damage, by God's grace, but I feel strongly about protecting innocent families from damage and helping those already damaged to find the healing they need. I am hopeful that the big Pharma bubble will burst as more and more people realize the truth. I want to be part of sharing and supporting the truth.
Posted by: Becky | October 21, 2013 at 09:28 PM
Well if we are doing a list --on how they keep up the false front as they abuse us then How about those great,big, huge fish tanks with exotic salt water fish in them.
That is what the neurologist had in his office the 6 times we went there - after seizure activity - for a quick EEG and gave us the evil eye wanting to know what we were all doing back there.
Well I had tried to go somewhere else but my peds kept tricking me and I kept ending up there!. Hmmmm The peds kept building on too, just kept getting nicer and nicer. Untill they built a brand new place -- why not; they had tons of money from us all having to go back - two times a week. The first time to tell us it was a virus and the second time when the kids were so bad off - to finally get the antibiotics for the strep infection.
And lets us not forget that big huge mahogany desk that took up most of the room - that was just super shiny top; that the neurologist sat behind and we were of course on the other side ----- as he told me not to come back unless my son had a super duper seizure -- but not for any of those little jerks.
We spent the entire winter after that Fall meeting with that little GOD ===== out walking late at night on the white and cold crunchy grass in our fields searching for some kind of relief from what were damn seizures.
Nice desk and I let felling abused but not as abused as my son.
Posted by: Benedetta | October 21, 2013 at 08:16 PM
Jeff C. - very good points. Ill add one more - the marble and the granite- on the floors, counter tops in the shiny new hospitals.(That is here in India, but I assume it's the same in the U.S.) That tells the doctor how important he is and it tells you how small you are. It's just the house of the wizard of Oz- Behind the facade are these young doctors, doing their best to make their way in life, and the older arrogant ones who are to be avoided at all cost.
Posted by: Cherry Sperlin Misra | October 21, 2013 at 03:49 PM
To Janet, Like me,(I think Im about your age), you got away with it till now. It's time for you to think about this: After age 50, the level of glutathiones in your body begins to fall. Now your body has less ability to excrete the toxins that may enter your body through vaccines. Lets look at mercury , for example- Mercury in your flu shot; mercury in your dental fillings; mercury in the tuna in your kitchen. Some in your water supply too. Now you're somewhere on the list of people who are eligible for Alzheimers. Just study, Janet, It may not be too late to take yourself off the list. Vaccines look good to everyone, until they take a hit.
Posted by: Cherry Sperlin Misra | October 21, 2013 at 03:41 PM
Janet;
You are an RN. As such you should know that not everyone reacts in the same way to things.
I can eat peanut butter every day, and so can most of my family. Does this mean peanut allergies don't exist?
When you admit a patient ,hopefully you ask for drug and food allergies to put on their chart.
You do so because you realize that one person may for example react badly to penicillin, while another person does not.
Saying "I'm fine" , doesn't help people who kids were injured.
I'm sure you don't realize this, but coming to a site for vaccine injuries and saying "My kids are going to college" without even acknowledging that some here have kids who are still struggling to master a single word for a food on their thirteenth birthday ( did you see Kim S' recent video of her beautiful daughter? )makes it seem like you don't care.
As Benedetta points out , fevers are a known reaction to vaccines in some children. How many who have seizures and fevers following vaccines develop autism? You will be surprised once you start to look at all the obvious follow ups and safety studies that just have not been done.
As you may know, Hannah Poling developed autism after vaccination ( and was compensated for this by the federal government)because she had a "rare" mitochondrial disorder, and her autoimmune system couldn't take vaccines. You might find it horrifying to check the rate of mitochondrial disorders in kids with autism diagnoses.
You're a nurse. Have you ever checked for a mitochondrial disorder before you vaccinated? Have you ever checked for one after the baby had a fever, or seizure following vaccination?
As an RN, what patient categories can't safely be given live virus vaccines? And what might happen to them if they do take them?
Interested in your thoughts.
Posted by: Hera | October 21, 2013 at 01:40 PM
People are still getting polio and yes they are vaccinated. my mother has had it twice after the vaccine and not to mention post polio syndrome. They now call wild polio Guillian Barr, menengitis anything but polio. I think those that talk about the outbreaks they have seen believe these vaccines truly work and choose to ignore the vaccine induced outbreaks? So it goes like this just take a little bit of poison (25 times what's been deemed safe by the FDA) into your system and it will prevent a lifetime of suffering, not true as it may cause a lifetime of suffering.
What is the public to think when a researcher creates a vaccine like gardisil and then she apologizes to the American public for the death/disability it has caused when cervical cancer is highly treatable. Why are we denying our children the natural immunity to chicken pox and substituting it for an artificial temporary one? Why are unvaccinated children healthier than vaccinated ones?
Posted by: kristen | October 21, 2013 at 01:06 PM
As "for Janet" mentioned, Janet had her kids back in the seventies when, really, there is no comparison to the load that kids these days get and she should know that unless she really doesn't keep current with what is happening now to infants/children.
Posted by: jen | October 21, 2013 at 11:57 AM
Beth, somehow I have also seen them try and pin people as "racist" and "anti-gay" as well, which really makes no sense. That and many of them now actually begin with the "Wakefield has been discredited" junk that is based on lies. It is very predictable.
Posted by: jen | October 21, 2013 at 11:51 AM
Philip
I had a very different experience back in 1999. In our local schools (Haringey, UK) there were 100 cases statemented under the age of 12 (mostly under 8) and 8 or 9 above 12. There were being monitored by the same services and the diagnostic criteria had not changed. Those that were getting statements had serious impairments, any who had missed diagnosis/statementing of that order of disability in the older group would have been in serious difficulty, and very disruptive.
What you are suggesting isn't much better than a piece of whimsy.
Posted by: John Stone | October 21, 2013 at 10:58 AM
For Phillip -
UC Davis M.I.N.D. Institute study shows California's autism increase not due to better counting, diagnosis
http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/welcome/features/20090218_autism_environment/
Dr. Insel on Rising ASD Numbers: “No Question” About Environmental Factors
http://www.ageofautism.com/2009/12/david-kirby-dr-insel-on-rising-asd-numbers-no-question-about-environmental-factors-.html
Autism Spectrum Disorders: Changes in the California Caseload An Update: June 1987 – June 2007
http://www.dds.ca.gov/Autism/docs/AutismReport_2007.pdf
"This document represents 20 years of longitudinal data about people with ASD who are served by the state’s DDS through care coordinated by 21 nonprofit regional centers. During this time in California, unprecedented growth occurred in the number of people with this neurodevelopmental disorder. Currently, nearly 39,000 people in California receive services from DDS for ASD. Many findings emerged during these two decades, including a decline in the average age of people with autism, a sizeable age wave of youth approaching adulthood, an increasing proportion of males who have ASD, and a diagnostic stability over time."
Autism Not Really on the Rise? 96.7% Impossible.
http://www.ageofautism.com/2009/09/autism-not-really-on-the-rise-967-impossible.html
The increase is real, not just better diagnosis or increased diagnosis.
Posted by: Twyla | October 21, 2013 at 10:57 AM
My kid's temperatures from vaccine reactions beats Janet's temperatures for the flu.
Her's was just 103--104.
My kids were 105 -to 106.
Hows is that compared to the actual disease and a vaccine reaction????
Posted by: Benedetta | October 21, 2013 at 10:38 AM
Twyla,
I know how you feel, and am always glad to see your comments. They do do some good. On the HuffPost about a month ago, a young woman came on and said she was going to have children soon and was thinking about vaccines, and that the anti-vax comments she had read on that article (about measles) were much more persuasive than the pro-vax ones. A woman on Shot of Prevention said some time after I posted a string of VAERS fatalities after the hep-B vaccine, that she had just asked her doctor the week before about side effects to the vaccine, and he had brushed them off. She said Why didn't he tell me about all those fatalities? So we saved some more children, and I"m sure there was a ripple effect from those indignant young women, and we saved many of the children affected by those affected by the young women. I don't mind the insults of the trolls and shills: since the truth is on our side, they just open an opportunity to put up more of the facts, and reach more of the vulnerable who would otherwise be victimized.
Posted by: cia parker | October 21, 2013 at 10:33 AM
I would just like to say that I was a vaccinated baby. Had all of my school age shots I'm 22 as of last week. The link between vaccinations and autism is almost certainly correlation and not causation. The increase of autism spectrum disorder from 0.01% of children to recent estimates of 1% of children is for 1 key reason and word in the disorder. "Spectrum". Now children with speech impediments are classified as autistic. Even if the speech impediment is physical not mental. We are taught before becoming a teacher of special education, for which I am currently working on my masters. Any student that shows problems with, adjusting to social norms, expression, reception, behavioral, or interpersonal relations should be classified as Autism and sent to a specialist. In 1994 when I was entering school. I was found to have an iq above 165 and was classified high functioning and capable of school. However, in 1997, as I entered 4th grade, I was classified as autistic. Put in speech therapy, for which there was no need. They then tried moving me to a special class and blamed the change on my 6 year booster. Here was the catch, I hadn't had my 6 year booster because I was still 5 almost 6. That's when my mother realized that I was being lied to. They simply didn't want me in normal classes. I had no behavior problems no academic problems. I have a slight attention span issue related to my intellect. However I am NOT autistic. Any disease in which the qualifications have been expanded so much. Look at autism in 1985-1990 and see the requirements in the DSM and then look the current rules up. It will no longer shock you why the rate of autism has skyrocketed.
Posted by: Phillip | October 21, 2013 at 10:15 AM
TO: ForJanet... my daughter had a febrile seizure at 2 years old due to the mmr vaccine. It is now a posted side effect. You claim that this is dangerous when you saw it in Hong Kong? It happens EVERY DAY in America, caused by the vaccinations you claim are "safe". I'm glad you and your children were lucky enough to not be harmed by all of the toxic substances you have put into your, and your children bodies. Some people aren't as lucky.
Posted by: Catherine | October 21, 2013 at 09:20 AM
Well Janet's got it all figured out. She had shots with no adverse reactions so there must be no link. That's not science Janet. No one is suggesting 100% of people have adverse reactions, only a vulnerable sub-population. And if you want to pull out credentials, I've been an advanced practice nurse for over 20 years. I trained at Vanderbilt and graduated with high honors . And I have a vaccine injured husband (gulf war) and son. The one thing I know from my many years in practice is nothing in medicine is absolute, and everything, including water and oxygen, has the potential to cause an adverse reaction. I finally spent the past year reading all the pro-vaccine research in detail--beyond the abstracts--and am shocked at how weak their evidence of safety is.
Posted by: ChrissyD | October 21, 2013 at 08:53 AM
I never had contact knowingly with an autistic. I want to vaccinate my own with vaccines free of adjuvants. I can do this for my pets.
Why can't I get this for humans?
Marv
Posted by: Marvin Lewis | October 21, 2013 at 05:40 AM
Hi Janet,
Of course, you have your anecdotal experiences and we have ours, and whatever training and experience the medical profession have it is also massively conflicted and complicit. I wonder - given that you "were" a nurse for more than 40 years - whether your wonderful children didn't adhere to a vaccine schedule much less than the present one.
A competent, decent, ethical medical profession would be listening to parents not consigning thousands of children to the trash box of adverse reports or not even bothering (such is the level of hostility and indifference). I think you are very bad advertisement for your profession - an arrogant know-it-all without an an ounce of compassion, and the ethical frame of reference of the three wise monkeys.
Posted by: For Janet | October 21, 2013 at 05:18 AM
I'm sorry, but as a RN who worked for more than 40 years, and have seen infants struggling to breathe with whooping cough; seen people with polio and living in iron lungs; seen smallpox (I lived in Africa); seen children with 105-106 fevers from measles have seizures; I could go on - I believe in vaccinations, including the flu. I had the Hong Kong flu in 1968 when I was 21. Very sick with 103-104 fever for 3 weeks. The flu hospitalizes hundreds of thousands of people every year and kills mostly the young and the elderly. Vaccinations have been a boon to mankind and NO link has been found to autism. I have 3 shot records from my 66 years of being a military brat, an Army RN and a RN. I have had every shot known including plague, I have never had an adverse reaction. My children all graduated with honors from college, despite having all their vaccinations and using fluoride water & toothpaste. This "conspiracy theory" about fluoride and vaccinations is just plain ridiculous. You see a doctor for his medical opinion - he spent 10-15 years in school. If you don't want his opinion, go see a quack. He'll tell you anything to get you to keep coming back.
Posted by: Janet Shapiro RN BSN, CDE | October 21, 2013 at 12:56 AM
"The one thing a pro vaccine shrill, troll or terrorist fears is being exposed."
I hate bullies. Doesn't everyone? And the paid vaccine propaganda bullies are some of the worst on the internet. Taking parents whose children have been harmed by vaccines to task and calling them names. Complete lowlifes. Really.
This week at my vaccine-injured daughter's school it is red-ribbon week - standing up to bullies. In her honor, here are my observations of vaccine bully behaviors. Recognize them for what they are; don't be afraid of the bully; call them out.
Here are the general propaganda themes you will find in message boards, blog comments, social media comments, etc:
- "vaccines are not for you, they are for all those around you thus you are selfish and irresponsible not to vaccinate early often and just get the damn shot"
- "my relative died or was maimed by a vaccine-preventable disease – you are stupid if you don’t vaccinate"
- "SCIENCE…are you a SCIENTIST? Because this is not SCIENCE. SCIENCE says vaccines are safe and you are not qualified to have an opinion unless you are a SCIENTIST."
- if you are or you cite a SCIENTIST with an alt-vax point of view, then "you are a QUACK and your cited source is a QUACK."
- "polio, polio, all hail the end of polio; criticize vaccines and it is coming back."
- then there’s the casting of stones and knashing of teeth with useless comments such as “idiot”
The trolls spewing the garbage listed above are easy to identify. When you call them out, the more evolved commenters get involved. These are likely supervisors or team leaders who are paid more because they are more adept at handling the conversation when the trolls are called out.
You'll typically see the tone shift from hate and intolerance of any who question vaccines to more of a middle road and quasi-common ground language that seems to sort of support a more cautious approach to vaccines.
If you analyze the “common ground” comments, though, they are typically 5-10% connection language and 90-95% supportive of vaccines in some way shape or form that builds on the themes I identified earlier.
It’s PR 101 and is as predictable as clockwork.
Posted by: Beth | October 21, 2013 at 12:31 AM
Twyla;
I don't see how you do it -- but I am so thankful that you do.
And you do a splendid job.
Which I know gets very old.
SO-- Thank YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU
Posted by: Benedetta | October 20, 2013 at 11:30 PM
Thank You for the post. Were I live we still have religious exemption without proof of any church affiliation. I printed up exemption letters and had them added to their medical records. One of the Doctors in the office tried to bully me around, but I put him in his place quickly! I told him that if anyone violated my rights I would sue. If there was a problem I would look for another office. He Backed off right away and never mentioned it again.
Posted by: Kelly | October 20, 2013 at 08:20 PM
my 10 year old daughter (who has autism which i believe was the result of her very first dpt and whatever vaccine at around 3 months of age) and i went to pick up some pain meds i would need for a dental surgery the following day. i was asked by the pharmacist and then again by the clerk if we had gotten our flu shots yet.
i answered each of them the same way "no, we never get flu shots, and we never get flu...in fact, we are very rarely sick with anything...but thanks."
this serves the duel purpose of refusing to be bullied, and giving them pause that there are people who never get vaxed and never get sick.
Posted by: moon batchelder | October 20, 2013 at 07:19 PM
Vicki,
Last year at the end of flu profit season, the CDC declared that the flu vaccine was effective in 9% of those over 65 that received the vaccine.
Badgering and bullying a patient to accept a vaccine after the patient clearly says no, should be malpractice.
Posted by: Linda | October 20, 2013 at 06:50 PM
There is a related issue and that is over-vaccination of the super-elderly. My 95 year old mother lives with me. A couple of years ago, she was hospitalized for a gastroenterological condition. As soon as she got to her room, the nurse started pestering her to get a couple of vaccinations. "No," my mother said. "Don't you know that you aren't supposed to take those when you are sick?" "Yes," the nurse replied, "but do you WANT the vaccines?" My mother was furious at the browbeating of a defenseless, ill patient.
Now her doctor is after her to get a flu shot. She doesn't want a flu shot. The doctor tried several ways to convince her. She said no. Finally the doctor said okay, but pointed out that the doctor was obligated to have the same (browbeating) conversation with her the next time she saw her. Why? So now Mother doesn't even want to see the doctor, because she doesn't want to have to argue the vaccine issue again. And again.
None of the vaccine studies are done on the super-elderly. So the doctors and nurses have no studies to back them up. It is a personal choice. For 95, Mother is quite healthy. She has no desire to rock the boat just because some medical person thinks she needs more vaccinations.
Posted by: Vicki Hill | October 20, 2013 at 06:09 PM
Love all of this. Wish I had known all of this information before my daughter was hurt by vaccination & fluoridation.
Posted by: Holly Garland | October 20, 2013 at 04:34 PM
re: posting comments - "Do it as much and as many times as you can."
I often wonder whether my comments are a complete waste of time. Certainly I will never change the mindsets of the hardcore vaccine defenders. Yet I can't stand for this constant drivel/spin to be out there unanswered. So I keep commenting, even though as only a mom with a BA in English I don't do the arguments justice, alas. We do what we can. We are up against formidable adversaries who are determined to keep the lid on vaccine problems, especially vaccine-induced autism.
Posted by: Twyla | October 20, 2013 at 04:16 PM
Oh dear, I am sorry - I got really tired the other day - for my own check up - After being askied four times - about that flu shot - the last time I said - no thanks -- but thank you for asking.
Some how that answer seemed to catch her off guard.
Posted by: Benedetta | October 20, 2013 at 01:37 PM
Do you have families in your practice that don't vaccinate? Within these families do you see peanut allergies or asthma? They will not answer, without ever bringing up the dark "A" word but they are thinking. If they do say, asthma isn't as bad as a case of measles, ask for the mortality rate of asthma as compared to that of measles over the last twenty five years. The death rate for children under 19 years old has increased by nearly 80% percent since 1980. NCHS, CDC, 2001 The list is overflowing..Kawasaki disease in unvaccinated? Central auditory processing disorder in unvaccinated? The simplest of things..nursing and latching, potty training, language development have all been knocked off schedule in the vaccinated.
Posted by: barbara j | October 20, 2013 at 01:28 PM
Excellent point, Jeff! There was a meme with some excellent links on FB about this important reminder--that the doctor works for you, not the other way around. Here's a link to picture on The Canary Party's FB page from early September.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=691912820836099&set=a.226504157376970.71543.220071664686886&type=1&theater
Thank you!
Posted by: Cat Jameson | October 20, 2013 at 11:15 AM
I might add to this in debates with Pharma vaccine shrills, trolls and vaccine apologist-have study titles and links on hand to direct them to. Be on the look out for people who come online just to bait you with name calling or comments that question your resolve. There is one guy on Vactruth that is a follower of Orac and blogs on one of his site religiously. His like to end any statements he makes with "you are reality challenged aren't you" which is an attack on your intelligence. Don't engage in name calling because it defeats your purpose. The best way to reply it to post verifiable links and other information that disputes what he/she says. I look at it as informing people who are looking for answer, not the poster. I just take him/her out of the equation. There are families that are wading through this process and engaging in a "fight" with the pro camp serves no one. Taylor your response to the people who are new to this debate. When I end the response to the pro camp I tell them "Name calling is the last refuge of the out argued. If you must resort to calling someone names, you've lost the debate". Which is true because "name calling" is designed to escalate anger and when you're angry it's difficult to fight through that emotion to provide cogent information.
One of the tactics of pharma apologist is when they are backed into a corner in a debate, they will suddenly flip the script and start asking you questions on a different subject. A recent example I had was a person who stated polio was eradicated by vaccine. When I was able to present verifiable data that it was not true, he began to say the Cochrane Collaboration stated mercury didn't cause autism, when I asked him to present the study, which I had already read, he began telling me to do a google search. This is when you know they can't support their position. For the next several day I'd ask him for a link to the study and he danced around it. Finally out of the blue he asked me to validate smallpox wasn't eradicated by vaccine. I responded "we were discussing the MMR study done by CC, I've requested that link for several days now, please provide that and I'll discuss smallpox". He got indignant say "oh you don't have such and such so I stated "for those who are just reading this thread here is what happened". I chronicled the entire exchange so new people knew what was going on. Afterwards I told the pro-person what misinformation techniques he was using and that on the bases of that I would no longer deal with him because he was intrinsically dishonest and was being paid by big pharma. He still makes comments but I now ignore him. I will comment on people who respond to his comments but not directly to him because I don't want him passing on lies and misinformation.
Another thing to expect when you are able to hold a strong position in one of these debates is being tag teamed. In the example I gave, when I backed this guy into a corner, out of the blue there were 3 new trolls who began to make inflammatory comments on my responses. The statements are usually one sentence that's meant to inflame and goad you and draw attention away from the fact their team player was out debated. If you don't feed the beast so to speak they are usually gone by the next day. I actually will state they are trolls and this is their purpose for joining in this debate that's been going on for 5 days at that point.
Bottom line, don't engage unless you have a plethora of verifiable date to support your position. Over the years I have accumulated thousands of pages of data, studies, reports etc. The information I rely on repeatably is information on smallpox and polio because that's the fallback position for pro-vaccine people. "Smallpox and Polio were eradicated by vaccine" I can prove it wasn't. Next they start the Wakefield is a criminal meme and his studies, which really is a report, can't be duplicated. I have pages of reports and studies in emails that I keep in my "waiting to be sent" file for easy access. The average person will back off but people who are being paid, at this point, will try and confuse the thread with nonsense. I call them on it outright. I tell them what misinformation technique they were using and eventually they call me a name and ignore me until the topic of the article looses steam.
There are many good articles online about the misinformation techniques that are used to manipulate people into working against their best interest. It's a good idea to study them and when you began reading comments from professional pro vaccine people, they jump out at you and your can call them out. The one thing a pro vaccine shrill, troll or terrorist fears is being exposed.
Posted by: Danchi | October 20, 2013 at 10:59 AM
Nice article Cathy, I'm forwarding it to my brother and his wife who are dealing with this right now with their infant.
I would add one more to the list:
Always keep in mind that the doctor works for you, not the other way around. You hired the doctor to assist with your child's medical care, you pay his (or her) salary, they are your employee. They can't fire you as a patient, they can only quit their job as your doctor. Since we hired them, we do the firing not them. There is no such thing as "doctor's orders", only professional advice we can choose to accept or reject in the same way one deals with any other hired professional. (Imagine your car seems to be running fine but you're told a new transmission is mandatory due to "mechanic's orders".)
The doctor's office is set up to enforce the notion that the doctor is in charge, not the patient. The white coats, the diplomas on the wall, the incessant waiting in one room after another, calling them by title (e.g. Dr. Smith) when they call us by first name, are all in place to project authority. Once one sees through this charade and recognizes the relationship for what it is, the bully loses their power. It's much easier to forcefully argue the point or reject unsolicited advice when one understands who's in charge.
Posted by: Jeff C | October 20, 2013 at 10:01 AM