Dachel Media Review: Las Vegas and Forbes Yet Again
Reads Anne's comments and link to the articles after the jump.
Sept 25, 2013, The Las Vegas Guardian Express: Vaccines - Can We Really Keep Up This Argument?
Sept 25, 2013, Forbes: Where Are All The Older Autistic People? Scotland, For Example
The Las Vegas Guardian Express
"To look at the other side of things and acknowledge all things as fair, voice must be given to those who have done their research, reported incidences and lived the life of a vaccine-promoting medical "professional" who have stopped vaccinating to know the other side of the story. If one is willing to look at the research and note the long list of questionable items that are placed inside vaccines going into our little ones and our more frail members of society, one would have to raise an eyebrow. Either that, or choose skepticism in favor of the previous few arguments."
This was very balanced and impressive. I posted two comments that are up. I was especially moved by the inclusion of this link about a child dying immediately after a routine vaccination.
Death By Lethal Vaccine Infection
Forbes
"Folks who adhere to the "autism epidemic" as a new phenomenon confined only to our youngest generation are fond of asserting that no older autistic people exist. Typically, their evidence for the claim comes only from their personal experience, as they ask, "Where are all the older autistic people? I can't find them!" Their comments conjure an image of their wandering the town square, tapping people on the shoulder, and asking them, "Are you autistic?" as a form of data gathering. But it must not be very good data gathering, as I personally know several people in these decades of life who are autistic. Perhaps I hang around in different town squares.
"In spite of the inability of some to find autistic people in their 50s, 60s, and older, investigations performed in a more methodical manner have identified where the older autistic people are. These studies also underscore the fact that frequently, diagnoses."
Willingham likes pretend there have always been people like this. Classic autism has distinct symptoms and I want to see adults with them. I posted my comment below. I better hang on to it because I'm sure this Scottish effort will get lots of coverage to remind us all that it's all just better diagnosing of a disorder that's always been around.
My comment:
That British study found all the missing adults by asking survey questions.
I don't want to hear about a 50 year old man who lives alone and would rather stay home and read a book than go to a party. I don't want to hear about a retired bus driver with a wife and a family who just discovered he has Asperger's.
What I want to see are lots of adults like so many children that I know personally. I want to see the 40, 50, and 60 year olds who flap their hands, don't speak or who have echolalia or who scream endlessly. I want to see adults who rock and spin and line things up like our kids do, along with ones who bang their heads on the walls endlessly and are still in diapers. I want to see the adults who have to be watched constantly because they'll wander off at will. And I especially want to see middle aged and elderly people that are now called autistic and whose health histories include starting off as normally developing babies, but who suddenly and dramatically lost learned skills and regressed into autism. Finally, I want to see older people with autism who also have the health problems our children do, namely, bowel disease, seizures, and sleep disorders, to name only a few.
Unless and until you can show us adults with classic autism like we see in our children, this proves nothing.
Twyla, I agree with you- I meant I worried that Alain is being used.
Posted by: jen | September 29, 2013 at 04:27 PM
jen - I don't feel used. I feel I may be wasting my time, but I can't stand to see so much misinformation go unanswered. I feel we need to keep speaking out, not to convince the adamant vaccine defenders, but to educate readers who may be lurking - including people who work for Forbes.
Otherwise all the spin will just be accepted as truth. People need to know that there is another side.
Posted by: Twyla | September 29, 2013 at 03:33 PM
Taximom, I hope you noticed that there are two people posting as Alain -- one as Alain Couvier, and the other just goes by Alain.
Posted by: Twyla | September 28, 2013 at 11:21 PM
Ah, now I see the responses to my comment, yet I cannot respond when I click reply which is frustrating. Alain is asking some questions of me, which quite frankly seem just odd. I only answered a question that he posed about non- verbal children using tablets- some can't. Simply put. No judgement. I am trained to give certain developmental assessments but very few- (DISC is one). Registered Psychologosts are needed for most. Mike Stanton responded to my point with a bizarre rant about everyone being different (which of course they are). I said some non- verbal kids can't use tablets- I didn't say all non- verbal kids can't use tablets.
It really does concern me, too, that some of these people can get so ugly (which tells you where they're at) but it is sad to see people who may be vulnerable get dragged in to it- I feel that they are being used.
Posted by: jen | September 28, 2013 at 09:30 PM
I don't even see my one and only comment to Alain's question about non-verbal kids being able to use tablets to communicate - I completely agree that lilady and co. really seem to lead some people who may be vulnerable on.
Posted by: jen | September 28, 2013 at 09:06 PM
I think W&N and Lila are trying to steer the discussion into "Alain vs. Twyla/Jen" by making it into "HFA vs. profound autism."
It shouldn't BE an us vs them discussion, and I really didn't think Alain was heading that way at all, until W&N&Lila started pushing it that way.
He does have a very interesting perspective to offer. I do hate to see him led about so successfully by W&N&L.
Posted by: Taximom | September 28, 2013 at 08:15 PM
I often wonder what I would think if I were reading lilady's and White & Nerdy's comments without knowing anything about vaccines and autism. Surely they would alienate me rather than convincing me of anything.
Posted by: Twyla | September 28, 2013 at 04:16 PM
I tried to respond to some of Alain's questions about non- verbal children being able to use an iPod or tablet etc. to communicate but am not sure my comment went through. Of course they *could* but I have worked with several children 8-15 who have had the benefits of early intervention and who cannot use a tablet to communicate. I know even Alain has his struggles but really, to suggest we are wanting to turn people into "golf playing..." was really quite odd. I really think he should just go and see some special education classes to get an idea of what some of these children are dealing with- bolting, not independently toileting, very minimal communication. Of course it is always the goal and always being worked on but many children out there cannot use tablets functionally.
Posted by: jen | September 28, 2013 at 02:21 PM
Taximom
Yes, quite right and I commented on it. W&N used in my memory to be an educated person: Mark II is completely snarling, hard-baked - all the personality of a B-movie gangster ("You know the drill, Mr Stone") - possibly being prompted occasionally from higher up.
Maybe it is the task of individuals like W&N and Lilady to make the blog unreadable in order to distract from the failure and incompetence of their arguments. W&N repeatedly calls me out for lying and is repeatedly shown to be wrong. Who is the real liar then(except that it doesn't matter because W&N isn't a person he's a pharma franchise now and height of crumminess)?
Posted by: John Stone | September 28, 2013 at 01:26 PM
Re: the comments under the Forbes article, what's the deal with White & Nerdy? His (her?) comments seem like a poorly crafted imitation of the kind of comments he used to make. He fused to can't seem to stay on topic, just keeps repeating the same straw men and insults.
Did the original W & N retire? Or did he lose brain function after his last flu shot?
Posted by: Taximom5 | September 28, 2013 at 11:00 AM
To Barry- The South Korean study is not a fraud- at least I do not think so. In fact, it is one of the many proofs of what we all have suspected for a long time- that senior people at the CDC are determined to cover up the truth- that autism is caused by mercury. Two simple facts, put together would have told the CDC that the rate of autism in Korea would be high:
1. Many Koreans eat a lot of fish.
2. The Americans have been a big presence in South Korea, which means that American style vaccines will be given.
Put these two facts together and you can tell anyone that the rate of autism in Korea will be very high, without even setting foot in that country. Years before the Korean study, I had my first Korean student in my nursery school. I sat the father down and explained to him about vaccines and mercury and fish and mercury. He asked "Why are you telling me this?" I explained that it was because he needed to tell Korean people about avoiding fish in pregnancy and avoiding vaccines with mercury or they will have autistic kids. He then told me that yes, the Korean population in New Delhi is about 100 and there are some autistic kids in that population. A few years later I had my first autistic Korean kid in my school. The denial of reality is so amazing, that it makes one doubt everything one is told in the realm of science and medicine.
And let me tell you- If the CDC comes to India , they wont be studying the South Indian BRahmins, who never eat a bite of fish in their lives.
I have a map of India with the locations of all the autism associations marked. What a surprise- Most of them are on the coasts. No doubt some new ones , more inland have come up more recently, as the vaccines with mercury increase.
Hey, you gotta admit- Those CDC guys- They know what they are doin'
Posted by: Cherry Sperlin Misra | September 28, 2013 at 09:11 AM
Media reports of older autistics "suddenly' being discovered in Scotland, are like media reports of that team of scientists who "suddenly " stumbled upon some remote, South Korean population where the incidence of autism just happened to be 1 in 38.
Both are bullshit. And both are virtually impossible to be verified by anyone who lives here.
Posted by: Barry | September 28, 2013 at 01:21 AM
Actually the comments under Emily's Forbes article are great/hilarious. Someone named Alain Couvier and John Stone etc. are kicking her arse. Emily Willingham (I love that name) sputtered out an insult to Anne and basically nothing of substance to anyone. Alain characterized her comments as being'obtuse' and that's putting it mildly. Someone else comments that he doesn't like Alain's scientific information- he feels Alain is 'condescending' and has too much time to comment. I guess they don't like it when people actually have solid questions to ask regarding this...I think certain cancer specialists have too much time to blog but hey, I'm not bankrolling him.
Posted by: jen | September 26, 2013 at 09:06 PM
Re. Adults with autism- I am sure that there would be some. *Some* of the children adults that I saw in institutions up to the late /80's that were given the label "mentally retarded" might have had autism- no idea about any kind of regression but that info would be very interesting to know. Then again there were probably lots of people who had genetic conditions known today who were just given the label of mental retardation but cause was unknown back then. My feeling is that there would be some but not anything matching to the numbers we see today- diagnostic substitution cannot explain it all.
Posted by: jen | September 26, 2013 at 06:55 PM