My Conversation with NIH Director Dr. Francis Collins
By Jake Crosby
Below is a video of the Canary Party Press Conference when the Interagency Autism Coordinating Committee (IACC) was on lunch break. In it, I speak (16:40 mark) about a conversation I’d just had with Dr. Francis Collins – the director of the National Institutes of Health (NIH).
If you want to talk to someone who will say whatever is convenient in the moment to deny and defend the autism-vaccine cover up within his federal agency and related organizations, talk to the Obama-appointed NIH director Dr. Francis Collins. At the IACC meeting, during break, I introduced myself and we shook hands.
I then asked him why I was not selected to be on the committee as a person with autism who wants to cure and prevent autism, unlike any of nominees with autism who were selected for the committee. He had no idea.
“I didn't pick the members,” he told me, even though NIH is ultimately tasked with direct oversight of the IACC.
I then brought up my NIH encounter with Paul Offit. I asked Dr. Collins, “You know him?” He responded, “Oh yes, of course.”
I then asked him if he knew Andrew Wakefield.
“Oh yes, I'm afraid everyone knows Andrew Wakefield after the misconduct he's engaged in.” I told Dr. Collins, “He has not engaged in misconduct. Those are the allegations of a journalist with no medical or scientific background – Brian Deer.” “
“His paper was retracted from The Lancet,” Collins replied.
So I said, “There is no reason for his paper to be retracted, not after the senior author John Walker-Smith was exonerated on appeal, debunking the reasons given by the journal for retracting the paper.”
He was expressionless. “So,” he said, “what is your stance on vaccines?”
“I think they cause autism.”
“Oh, you do?”
“Yes,” I told him.
“So you made up your mind. Do you think that's wise?”
I responded, “Do you think it's wise that Marie McCormick of the IOM made up her mind, saying IOM will never come down that autism is a true side-effect of vaccination, in 2001, before looking at any of the data for or against?”
“Well, I don't think she made up her mind.”
“Then why did she say that?”
“I don't know why she said that,” Collins admitted, “but I don't think her comments had much of an impact.”
“Not much of an impact?! She is the chairwoman of the IOM committee which produced the report in 2004 rejecting a causal link between vaccines and autism! The IOM has global influence on scientists worldwide and the IOM is corrupt!”
He responded, “Yes, IOM does have worldwide influence, but I am not convinced IOM is corrupt. Every scientist I've talked to has said it's time to move on.”
I guess he’s never talked to his late predecessor, former director of the National Institutes of Health, Dr. Bernadine Healy, who actually recruited Collins to NIH while head of the agency. Maybe those scientists he referred to all read the NIH/CDC-sponsored 2004 IOM Report, but not the closed door, leaked comments by committee members like Marie McCormick who came to preconceived conclusions well before the decision.
So I asked him, “If the IOM is corrupt – you don't think they are – but if they are, then won’t that corrupt the whole scientific process?”
“Yes,” he responded, “but IOM is not corrupt.”
Collins just admitted that the views of every scientist he's spoken to were staked on those of a small handful of people who made some disturbing remarks behind closed doors implicating themselves in a vaccine-autism cover up. And Collins had no explanation for these comments. I guess that's why, throughout our talk, he became evasive and uncomfortable, and finally said “I don't think this discussion will end well.”
Going back to my NIH encounter with Paul Offit, I told Dr. Collins what led up to my forced removal from a lecture at his agency. I described how Offit misrepresented Dr. Wakefield by claiming that he announced at a press conference that the MMR vaccine causes autism, and that I pointed out Paul Offit’s misrepresentation of Dr. Wakefield’s statement. I told Dr. Collins that Offit sidestepped my question by claiming that because autism can be caused in the womb by thalidomide, congenital rubella syndrome and valproic acid, that therefore autism cannot be caused after birth. I said to Dr. Collins that when I corrected Offit on making such scientifically unsupported statements, he called me a stalker and I was kicked out of NIH.
When I asked why I was ejected from his agency, Collins replied, “Well, I don't know, but it does not sound like you were very diplomatic in your approach.”
I told Dr. Collins, “No, you can watch the video and see for yourself. It's on the VideoCast dated December 14, 2011.” (In the Canary Party Press Conference Video, I forgot to mention Dr. Collins speculating that I was not very diplomatic in my challenging of Offit at NIH. Yet Dr. Collins did not seem to take issue with the fact that I was called a stalker and forcibly ejected from his agency.)
I already sent Dr. Collins' office a letter shortly after the incident explaining what happened and inquiring about my removal; I received no response. I couldn't even obtain the footage of my removal from NIH that was edited out of the VideoCast because videotapes at NIH are recorded over 30 days after use - so much for FOIA requests.
When we parted ways, Dr. Collins concluded, “There will be a truth – it may not be my truth, it may not be your truth; it will be the truth.”
“Right,” I responded. Of course, no matter what “truth” that is, Dr. Collins' department will be very wrong about something. HHS has quietly compensated many children for vaccine injuries resulting in autism diagnoses since the early 1990s.
I couldn't help but remember the wise words of the late Dr. Bernadine Healy, who made important contributions to drug safety and later spoke out in favor of vaccine-autism research. When asked by CBS News if she was saying public health officials have turned their backs on researching the vaccine-autism connection, Dr. Healy confirmed:
"There is a completely expressed concern that they don't want to pursue a hypothesis because that hypothesis could be damaging to the public health community at large by scaring people.”
No doubt those public health officials to which Dr. Healy was referring include the current director of NIH, Dr. Francis Collins, whom Dr. Healy originally recruited.
Jake Crosby has Asperger Syndrome and is a contributing editor to Age of Autism. Jake is a 2011 graduate of Brandeis University with a BA in both History and Health: Science, Society and Policy. He currently attends The George Washington University School of Public Health and Health Services where he is studying for an MPH in epidemiology.
Benedetta,
I probably came across 1 Boring Old Man (http://1boringoldman.com/ ) via PharmaGossip (http://pharmagossip.blogspot.com/ )
I just read at 1 Boring Old Man. The people who comment are fellow psychiatrists.
Posted by: Carol | August 18, 2012 at 09:27 AM
Carol:
How did you ever run across the website of "One Boring Old Man"
Wow, anything but boring.
They have a copy of a letter from Senator Grassley raking Collins over the hot, firey coals for hiring fraudster Nemeroff of Emory Clinic.
This was in May or June before the meeting if the IACC in July.
And life still goes on, Collins still hold his head up high, were as normal men would be hanging thier heads, hiding behind their hand as if they were wiping their eyebrow -- unable to meet parent's eyes from guilt.
Posted by: Benedetta | August 17, 2012 at 03:29 PM
Collins, Insel, Nemeroff, Grassley: http://1boringoldman.com/index.php/2012/06/12/no-later-than-june-12/
Posted by: Carol | August 17, 2012 at 10:13 AM
Per...........
To Raymond Gallup, The work you did may not have benefitted your son, but let me tell you that it was an article of yours, among a few others, that propelled my own interest in vaccines and autism. Every now and then I go back and reread that article. And though we often feel like salmon swimming upstream against the current, there is no doubt that the populace is far more aware today of possible problems with vaccines than they were 12 years ago.
Posted by: Cherry Sperlin Misra | August 01, 2012 at 03:08 PM
Cherry,
Thank you for your kind words.
I'm not bitter as some people say I am but annoyed that the US Dept of HHS (including the CDC, NIH, IOM, IACC, etc.) still gets all that taxpayer money for autism. In fact, they deserve better by having the president and Congress/Senate wipe out this amateur, unscientific, wasteful, lobbyist-driven organization. When the country runs out of money down the road with all the debt spending being accumulated, I hope this agency is number one on the hit list/hit parade. They deserve it.
Posted by: Raymond Gallup | August 02, 2012 at 09:04 PM
Cherry,
I didn't say replacing the current administration would solve problems. I only said no one could be worse. Maybe someone else would be equally bad or possibly even better. The only way someone could be worse is if he or she appointed SIX people to the IACC who oppose curing or preventing autism. That's hard to imagine. (Obama has appointed a total of five so far.)
Posted by: Madvocate | August 01, 2012 at 11:54 PM
Madvocate, sorry to contradict you, but my daughter as a teenager had an experience which taught her the bitter truth: When you think that replacing someone will solve problems because no one could be worse, the joke may be on you.
Posted by: Cherry Sperlin Misra | August 01, 2012 at 03:39 PM
To Paul S, I much appreciate your sentiments, but funding for finding the cause of autism is not comparable to funding the atom bomb. The people who funded the atom bomb wanted and needed it. People at the CDC and NIH do NOT want the truth of autism to come out. The truth of autism will end their illustrious careers. Even the doctors of America might turn on them like vicious dogs, saying"You conned us into giving those toxic vaccines and now the childrens brains are damaged and all the parents despise us"
Watching the way funding for autism research has gone down the drain in useless research over the last many years, has provoked some of us to cast our eyes around at other big medical funding efforts.Here is one example: Im 65 and ever since I was a child the battle against heart disease has been waged. Where are we today? Some new good surgical procedures and every doctor doling out potentially harmful statins, because everyone is stuck on this cholesterol model of heart disease. Meanwhile there are other causes of heart disease that go virtually unresearched.
Posted by: Cherry Sperlin Misra | August 01, 2012 at 03:27 PM
To Raymond Gallup, The work you did may not have benefitted your son, but let me tell you that it was an article of yours, among a few others, that propelled my own interest in vaccines and autism. Every now and then I go back and reread that article. And though we often feel like salmon swimming upstream against the current, there is no doubt that the populace is far more aware today of possible problems with vaccines than they were 12 years ago.
Posted by: Cherry Sperlin Misra | August 01, 2012 at 03:08 PM
To Barbaraj- This is a disgusting story- and unfortunately, from the parents stories we hear- very common.Doctors are now so mindless, that they have come to think of vaccines as a TREATMENT . Which possibly shows us how few really good treatments they possess. Do you suppose that this doctor spent some time telling the mom to take her child in the sun daily to boost his immune system, and to stop feeding him fish so that the mercury would not be deranging his immune system..?? Not likely. And you might like to check up- At least one of the meningococcal vaccines still contains mercury in a large amount. If Im not mistaken, even some Dtaps may have small quantities of mercury, and by the way, pharma companies are allowed to put in slightly more mercury than what is printed on the insert. Its difficult to control such small quantities accurately, you see. Too bad that even very small quantities of mercury are still toxic. So you might like to say to the doctor, something like, " Thanks Doc, my child has mrsa and you just wiped out his immune system with this mercury in the meningococcal vaccine plus a microgram or two in the Dtap.It would have been nice for him to have an immune system with which to fight the mrsa."
This medical approach is also useful for adults! Your neighbour who is going to holiday at Phuket? He'll go and get a tetanus toxoid with mercury just in time to damage his immune system before he lands in a foreign country with lots of new bacteria and viruses. Isnt modern medicine wonderful!
Posted by: Cherry Sperlin Misra | August 01, 2012 at 02:59 PM
You are superb Jake, as always. The time has come for us to throw away all diplomacy and speak straight into their (all medical establishment) faces: “you are idiots, you are genocidal murderers , you are criminals and we will see you soon rot in prisons for the rest of your corrupted, stupid and barbaric life, which you wasted on destroying humanity”. No more euphemisms.
Posted by: no vac | August 01, 2012 at 05:50 AM
Yeah, let’s keep building a massive infrastructure that has and will take on a life of it’s own
hoping that the tragedy of youth being struck Autistic continues on forever. Yes,
those families with children poisoned
into Autism do need the support. So yes build a support system for them.
However, I have one other suggestion. How’s about funding a
research projects like those funded to develop the atomic bomb that is focused
on determining the cause of this epidemic of children being struck Autistic. Then we would Stop any addition
children from being destroyed. How about that for ending this blight on all mankind.
American Politicians, sorry to wake you but how about funding such an effort.
And I hope the genius’ at the FDA, CDC and the rest of the acronym alphabet soup
health agencies would put their selfish focus on retirement aside and put
some real effort in finding the root cause of this epidemic so it will be
ended..
Posted by: Paul S | July 31, 2012 at 10:55 PM
Jake:
Thank you for your excellent reportage. I am shocked that Dr. Collins was able to have an exchange with a vital leader in our community without pulling an Offit. Learning curve perhaps? Katie, your comments summed it up for me. I am disgusted and dismayed by Dr. Collins' methodology. Maybe all of the IACC self-congrats and backslapping knocked his brainpan loose. I don't know how he was able to look you in the face, Jake while he spewed his callous disregard. However, I am most grateful that you continue to seek answers to the questions we so desperately need answered.
Posted by: Christine Thompson | July 31, 2012 at 10:05 PM
Okay who was it that called Francis by his full name?
You know Francis Gene Collins?
Human genome to blame, says the state, says the state
Human genome they claim, you just chose the wrong mate
It is human to blame, just genes Collins proclaims
They have no human shame; it was not our real fate.
Posted by: Benedetta | July 31, 2012 at 09:50 PM
Jake;
You are a young warrior jumping fearlessly into the fray!
Francis Collins someone called him Frances Gene Collins
is a big man and you asked him some tough questions. You are amazing.
Posted by: Benedetta | July 31, 2012 at 09:44 PM
You all are amazing! Thanks for all your advocacy!
I want to point out obvious ignorance. To say “Oh yes, I'm afraid everyone knows Andrew Wakefield after the misconduct he's engaged in.” is exactly the reason the governmental agencies have had no success in doing any meaningful contribution towards decreasing autism. People like me, who have been successful at recovering their kids, don't accept that just because someone was punished, that they are guilty of something. We look into the situation. Just like I had to look at what was causing my children's symptoms and what was successfully reversing autism symptoms, rather than accepting the doom and gloom most docs have to offer.
Dr. Wakefield was punished for supposedly doing unnecessary testing of looking for Measles in children. This is done by most scientists. It's called a subject and control group. If one were to throw out Dr. Wakefield's paper on that account, then much of the science needs to be thrown out. So, just passing on to the governmental regulatory agencies, "We are not mindless followers; we use our brains and actually read the research and actually question the successful ones to learn from them." So, just saying, "You aren't fooling us." I would ask you to read the research yourself, but I don't think you want to find answers, only keep on schmoozing. And don't throw the studies out there, like the Denmark one, that has been ridiculed to pieces in it's methodology and it's authors' integrity. I have read it, and can easily see it's not up to par. You see, we have minds and can determine if the research is valid and reliable.
Therefore, (paraphrased from Andy Wakefield sayings), "The autism epidemic is not going away; and the voice of the people is NOT going away."
Posted by: Heidi N | July 31, 2012 at 08:15 PM
Keep turning the screw Jake they are feeling it for sure...can`t thank you enough for your willingness to meet these people eye to eye and SHAME them ...SHAME ON THEM ALL!!!
Regards
Angus
Posted by: Angus Files | July 31, 2012 at 07:48 PM
Jake,
It is people like you that keep me from going postal on Offitt and all the agencies. I mean it....Thank you. Knowing you are going into epidemiology gives me hope. I love everything that you are doing for the greater good. One day, my son will be on his own and I will be your personal assistant for free exposing these jackholes.
Posted by: Bre | July 31, 2012 at 07:42 PM
Jake,
I too am in awe of your courage confronting these people one after another. There also, of course, could not have been anything more telling than the way Insel nonchalantly resumed business as usual that day at the IACC. They are certainly full of hot air, but nothing seems to be able to puncture them. But their time will come.
It is also very telling how they all hide behind the GMC show trial, which has already three-quarters unravelled in the High Court. I remember the science trolls saying in 2004 "It's time to move on" - how they would love it, but it wasn't then and it isn't now.
John
Posted by: John Stone | July 31, 2012 at 07:16 PM
It's time to call the police, what else do you do when someone is assaulting your child. I'm so damn mad, my neighbor took her son to the docs for a boil, they took a swab, gave him a dtap, meningitis, and varicella shot. The results came back today, MRSA, tell me why..WHY..a doctor is within his rights to possibly kill this child? Ignorance of issues doesn't work for the rest of us, in the presence of an active skin infection they got a chickenpox shot??
Posted by: barbaraj | July 31, 2012 at 06:37 PM
Bernadine Healy;
Finally did the right thing.
But she was in a position of power at one time that could have made a difference.
1991.
The internet was just beginning and it was a time that a few was starting to communicate - everyone was curious about it - and you could actually send a message to the upper crust and it got through.
Bernadine got the emails and did respond -
Then what happened?
I am sure it had been in the works since 1986 passing of the vaccine protection act - five years.
How could they have geared up with that many more vaccines in only five years?
I know that Bernadine came out in the end - but she stood with all the rest of them in the beginnning.
Posted by: Benedetta | July 31, 2012 at 04:49 PM
I have to agree with Katie. I am in awe of your ability to take these guys on. They have no idea the force they are dealing with.
I also agree with Raymond Gallup that the confrontations with these characters are not changing anything in the power corridors. What they ARE doing, when you come back and write them up, is changing the minds of people who think that these agencies are NOT corrupt. That they are thinking of the welfare of this country's citizens first and foremost. Those changing minds are going to be what FINALLY turns the tide. We are making progress. More and more people know that children are being sacrificed in the name of "public health." The powers that be have chosen their side, and it's NOT the correct one. The struggle now is for the hearts and minds of the rank and file who will be applying for vaccine exemptions and protesting draconian laws in greater and greater numbers.
Posted by: Zoey | July 31, 2012 at 03:10 PM
"According to every scientist I have talked to it is time to move on." Simply world class bullshit...
Autism is 100 times more common than Polio and they STILL have no damn idea what the hell has happened to one million American children and counting.
The only "DAMN SCIENCE" they have is "study after study" that says that children who received 27 vaccines have the same Autism rate as those who received 25 vaccines.
They continue to mock the parents who take home their "eight vaccine well baby visit child" and wonder why the light in their eyes have gone out.
Keep after them Jake. They all belong in a prison somewhere.
Posted by: cmo | July 31, 2012 at 03:10 PM
Shouldn't Dr. Healy be the standard for integrity and self-initiated inquiry, not so much a rarity?
My impression: most of the upper echelon of our "health" agencies see what they feel is an acceptable distinction from "vaccines cause autism" in "vaccines 'sometimes' result in autism in vulnerable individuals." They hope or are "absolutely certain" the vulnerability is genetic and any harm probably inevitable, but if it so happens that the vulnerability is environmentally induced, maybe even sometimes by vaccines themselves...unfortunate, they may even quietly take officially unsupported actions to protect their own, but they won't do anything politically ($$$) incorrect in public. Though I doubt most think it through on a conscious level so much. You don't have to think a lot to not change a lot.
Posted by: Jeannette Bishop | July 31, 2012 at 02:45 PM
The phrase "It's time to move on" is anti-science. To say that would be unacceptable in any other field of science.
I agree with Katie. Francis Collins' mind is closed. He needs to be replaced, which means the administration that appointed him needs to be replaced. How could we possibly do worse?
Posted by: Madvocate | July 31, 2012 at 01:38 PM
Constant and ever present state censorship to protect the reputation of vaccines at all costs . The election of puppets to key positions to prevent any true scientific progress (eg Carey Sullivan at the IACC) . The persecution of anyone prominent who dares to speak and truth and state the obvious . Hiding of the facts , hiding of the autism holocaust numbers around the world . The indemnity against liability of vaccine manufacturers for any legal action .
The reasons for my suspicions for this being one great big grand old conspiracy go on and on . The constant screaming & growling of my damaged child all day long in my ear incessantly .Maybe I'm losing my grip , maybe I'm seeing things , but the double "cc" in the word vaccine , has turned into a great big swastika in my head ! Draw your own conclusions as to what I now think this is all about .
You cannot imagine my thinking is anymore extreme than it really is .
Posted by: Liz Birts Army | July 31, 2012 at 01:35 PM
Only one statement sums this up, may they have a special place in hell for what they have done to our children, knowingly by acts of ommission and comission. If anyone thinks they have a free ride as soon as they say they believe in God, has a sorry sorry conclusion at the pearly gates. All unrepented sin will. We all will have a "reveal" and "study" of our lives, for all to see. I would like to think that a jury of judges will also be present, which include our hurt children (who are now healed of autism in heaven)...and they will decide what fate will rest or should I say, arrest them. They will find company in their midst, stallin, hitler, mad scientists, cain, pontius pilate, the green river killer, bundy murderers, shoot them up in ,theaters conscience acting murderers, terrorists, etc. I hope they enjoy this company for all eternity, as a sort of prison, the same prison they gave our kids in mortality, full of pain, full of seizures, full of medical neglect and wanderings, full of no contact with another human being, loneliness and disparity.
Posted by: kathy blanco | July 31, 2012 at 01:27 PM
What are the odd that NIH is less corrupt than the FDA?
http://truth-out.org/news/item/10524-former-fda-reviewer-speaks-out-about-intimidation-retaliation-and-marginalizing-of-safety
Posted by: Carol | July 31, 2012 at 11:43 AM
omg Jake you are amazing.
I think I can get pretty assertive but you are the best ever.
"According to every scientist I have talked to it is time to move on."
There Collins made his decision. I doubt he has even reads the dozens of studies in the past 2 yrs showing the connection. Collins meant to say that he has stopped reading any research he will not agree with and he has stopped listening to parents of vaccine injured kids.
These guys are supposed to be working for us, not each other.
Posted by: Katie Wright | July 31, 2012 at 11:31 AM
Good work, Jake. You backed him into a corner on our behalf. I'm grateful. Of course one bureaucrat taken to task won't put a dent in the Pharma fiction machine. There are more people doing this, and for that too I'm grateful, but our numbers don't match theirs, nor do our influence, and funding. Every one of them needs to get that treatment simultaneously by an equal number of vaccine safety advocates who have the brainpower to retain the pertinent data. I am only half of that.
Posted by: Carter's Daddy | July 31, 2012 at 09:51 AM
The other aspect of these denials and dancing around the vaccine link to autism by "Dr. Collins", "Dr. Offit", etc., is the fact that the CDC and FDA keep a record of adverse reactions to vaccines at VAERS (http://vaers.hhs.gov/index). Our son, Eric is listed on there going back to the mid 1990s as well as plenty of others but yet this list collects important data that has been totally ignored over the years. Why would these mercenary schmucks like "Dr. Collins", "Dr. Offit", etc. look at this data? They rather have it collect dust.
Posted by: Raymond Gallup | July 31, 2012 at 08:52 AM
Dear Jake,
I'm glad you confronted "Dr. Collins" (I say that with sarcasm since they say regarding doctors, "do no harm"....apparently that isn't something Collins abides by or lives by). In the 1990s and 2000s I confronted the NIH and CDC (along with researchers and other parents in numerous occasions) with the blood work that showed our son, Eric had elevated measles antibody titers and tested positive for myelin basic protein (MBP) antibodies. These people at the NIH and CDC like Collins looked at me like I had 3 heads either because they didn't want to hear what I was telling them; or they just were too dumb and stupid.
Could have been both.
Of course they had the power and therefore as my wife said, the time and money I spent talking with these people didn't help Eric or other kids like him. I wish I could say it made a difference, but it didn't since they still think vaccines are safe and adverse reactions to vaccines; what is that (based on the thinking at the CDC, NIH, IOM, IACC, etc.)? They are and will be in a state of denial no matter how much the public and autism advocates come down on them. "Dr. Collins", "Dr. Offit" and others like them owe their allegiance to the pharmaceutical industry and not to the public so they will continue their little dances as long as they exist on this planet. A leopard doesn't change its spots and neither will these people no matter how much reason and pressure is exerted on them.
I wish I was wrong, but time and time again, I see over the years that I have been spot on about these people and their pro-vaccine dogma. "Do No Harm", that isn't in their vocabulary. Never has been and never will be. It is all about them making $$$$ and making sure their masters in the pharmaceutical industry pull the strings on these human puppets.
Posted by: Raymond Gallup | July 31, 2012 at 08:30 AM
We have a disease that is almost seventy years old - rare then and now happening more than chickenpox, measles, childhood AIDS, cancer- etc, etc - and this guy says DIPLOMATIC? Who is he kidding? Who is he protecting? Not the nation's children!
Posted by: diplomatic in your approach? | July 31, 2012 at 08:16 AM