Protecting Their Own: The Unofficial Vaccination Policy of Doctors in the Know
By LJ Goes
At present I have over 15 physicians programmed into my blackberry. Those are just the doctors, pediatricians, specialists and family practitioners I talk to on a regular basis. There are several others I research, cold call and visit. I spend my time on this because it's imperative that I have a competent mainstream pediatrician that knows our family in the event of a true medical emergency. Plus I like to chat with them about vaccine science and iatrogenic illness. Sometimes they talk to me, sometimes they don't. I recently reconnected with a mainstream doctor affiliated with a large hospital and a thriving practice in thje midwest. We've had many interactions over the years but on this particular day this physician had quite a bit to say. These were his words as they were spoken to me. For the purpose of protecting his anonymity I will refer to him as "The Doctor."
The Doctor on Gardasil:
"Gardasil? What the hell is that? That shouldn't be on the market for another 30 years. We have no idea if we are causing this disease to mutate and become more harmful and stronger than it is now. No idea. We'll find out I guess. Anyway, I talked about this with my partners and they were adamant, "you have to give it to your patients." I told them I am not telling my parents they have to give this to their 9 year old. I got looks like--crazy. They thought I was nuts. My partners are saying to me,"you gotta give it."
I told him I was aware of over 90 deaths and life-altering adverse reactions as the result of Gardasil. He did not respond.
The Doctor on Hepatitis B:
"I mean, they have us vaccinate jaundiced babies with Hepatitis B! What are they thinking? What is wrong with them? I mean, Geez. Is this really necessary? Come on."
This was a particularly difficult thing for me to hear. My son Noah was jaundiced at birth and received the hepatitis B vaccination without our consent,on the day he was born. My swollen yellow baby boy never cried and only grunted for months. Such a good baby...the four words everyone who knew him uttered repeatedly, for a year straight. Such a good baby. I continued to vaccinate him on schedule. My pediatrician (not this doctor) was not alarmed by his enlarged body, swollen head, limbs, and distended torso. He was described as "roly-poly", though he did not routinely eat and digest food until he was 3. During his second year of life he did not gain weight. My repeat concerns about his development were met with "Mrs. Goes, he looks healthy." I broached the topic of Hep B with The Doctor, during a previous meeting two years ago. At that time, I mentioned our third child (who does not have autism) had not yet received the vax. He rolled his eyes and said, "Why? All babies get that in the hospital at birth? Everybody does it." His tone was accusatory but he offered no explanation as to why it was important.
The Doctor on Varicella (Chicken Pox):
"Who didn't get chicken pox? I mean, yes people who get the chicken pox are likely to get shingles, but we don't know if the vaccine causes shingles too or if the shingles vaccine is necessarily any good. There's no way we can know. It would take years to determine."
The Doctor on Vaccines in General:
"I don't vaccinate my kids. I rely on herd immunity, which is selfish I know. Herd immunity basically means I am relying on the fact that everyone else is vaccinated. I know it's wrong...They (his children) are fine. I might (vaccinate) when it comes time for them to go to high school because I don't want them to have to miss out on travel opportunities. They are all perfectly healthy."
I asked him if he knew about Breusewitz vs. Wyeth. I thought it was important that he knew the products he does not choose to give to his own children but yet, recommends to his patients, now enjoy greater freedom in the marketplace than ever before. He had not heard of the Supreme Court ruling. I gave him a brief overview to which he responded with a disbelieving "huh."
The Doctor on Vaccine Philosophy and Group Think:
"You do not question vaccines openly. It's not done. I know I sound ridiculous here but it's like Nazi Germany. Really, I know it sounds silly. I mean, in our own groups, of course, we question vaccines all the time, among ourselves, but you never ever say it openly. You have to understand, doctors are scientists. We pride ourselves on our knowledge. You just don't question, they look at you like you're crazy. I have to tell you to vaccinate because if I don't and your kid gets sick, I get sued. I am legally responsible. My partners are always telling me, "You make them vaccinate on schedule or they are out." You know you could get in a lot of trouble for not vaccinating yourself--you know that though--you have a medical background."
His perception of himself as a real "scientist" floored me. Science is unbiased investigation. The system in which he finds himself does not even resemble a scientific community. It's a fraternity. He's a brother, not a scientist. Not to mention, I do not have a medical background. I never inferred or implied I did. I just ask a lot of questions. I didn't feel like correcting him so instead I asked him if he knew about Merck and Pfizer not paying the American government the combined 19 million dollars in taxes they owe the American people. http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/ad-lib/2011/apr/10/tax-evaders-wall-shame/ "How is that possible?" He furrowed his brow. I went on to explain that Merck plans on conducting massive lay-offs despite having tripled their profits last year http://www.dddmag.com/news-Merck-Profits-Triple-Plans-Job-Cuts-72911.aspx?et_cid=1872901&et_rid=230266277&linkid=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dddmag.com%2Fnews-Merck-Profits-Triple-Plans-Job-Cuts-72911.aspx. He was not at all interested. He turned the conversation to the topic to the impending healthcare changes and how pharma will not escape their negative impact. I tried to explain that pharma's legislative freedom trumps all conventional consequences. Pharma is not just above the law, pharma is the law. The facts fell upon deaf ears.
I gave it one more try anyway and turned my attention to his turf. What did he have to say about the recent AAP study that determined over 50% of American children are afflicted with chronic illness? www.canarypartyorg. He knew nothing of the study or the chronically ill children. Clearly this means they do not exist. Suddenly, he started to shut down. What will happen if all his patients start behaving like this? Reading and asking questions. In a last ditch effort I tried to bridge the gap. I was not trying to establish authority but rather make a humble plea for his genuine care and concern for all our children, not just his own. I explained that one of our goals in the Canary Party is to create a safe place for doctors like him who do not believe that every single vaccine is safe for all children. "We are really working on this. You must be free to question the system without fear of ramifications." I said. At this point it hit him that I considered myself his equal and that in my mind, I may actually be in a position to help him.
He concluded with, "Vaccines work, Lisa. Look at polio."
LJ Goes is Managing Partner of The Misuta Project, Contributing Editor to Age of Autism, and Executive Board Member of the Illinois Canary Party
SIDS = Sudden Inoculation Death Syndrome
Posted by: Narad | August 16, 2016 at 03:50 PM
I'm reading a lot of comments about the "type of people" who get admitted into med school. Who gets admitted? 1. Those who apply 2. Those who meet the pre-req's 3. Those who have high MCAT's 4. Those who have a very strong history of academic success
There are other factors weighed, too. They tend to want "well-rounded" students these days. They want students with character, personality, etc. It's not JUST grades, but grades and history of success are the most important factor, as it should be!
Should they pick touchy feely applicants with low MCAT's, multiple failures and repeated courses, low GPA, poor work ethic, etc? I don't think so. I don't see how that would help things.
For the record, there ARE plenty of students admitted each year who are non-traditional: older, or lower grades, or low MCAT's... but have a lot of passion and manage to win their ticket into school.
You have to understand that it's very difficult to make it through med school, residency, fellowship, and continue into practice and/or research. It's very demanding academically, intellectually, mentally, physically. They need to pick people who have a good track record and those who are likely to make it through and continue. The path to med-school, medical school itself, residency, fellowship, and clinical practice or research are almost like a form of "self-harm". They HAVE to pick a certain "type" of student most of the time. Other types of personalities would not subject themselves to this long-term. I really don't think most med schools really know what types of personalities they're getting, except that they might be able to guess. They're looking at numbers, achievements, not personality analysis.
Posted by: Sarah | May 31, 2012 at 06:05 PM
"Here are some facts that are far less likely to be mentioned about the smallpox vaccine"
Totally agree Barry, these "facts" are from 1871, 1855, 1917 that'll be before refridgeration, bifurcated needles, quality control of vaccine production etc etc, what on earth is their relevance to any intelligent debate about smallpox and trying to resolve problems of autism, like another fact you quote " Vaccines don't actually prevent disease at all,", that's why 97% of cases of measles in France hadn't had 2 courses of MMR.
Statements like that just make trying to resolve problems for autistic kids a million times harder Barry, do you really believe them???
Posted by: Eindeker | August 22, 2011 at 03:34 PM
There are definitely many indications that we have bigger battles ahead as more and more vaccines become mandatory and some of the exemptions get eliminated. by the way, does anyone know what happened to the attempt in Washington State to make exemptions more difficult?.
In India an interesting thing has happened with the young doctors. Their own children definitely do become autistic or display some autistic symptoms that later diminish. This was pointed out to me years ago by someone who owns one of the most prestigious primary=secondary schools of New Delhi. She told me that many of the autistic kids in her special section had parents who were doctors. I thought about it and realized that it made perfect sense. The young doctors in India are usually working and studying at the government hospitals, where they can get their vaccines free. However, the government hospitals only keep the vaccines with the highest level of Thimerosal (mercury). Serum Institute of India vaccines contain double the amount of mercury as compared to the other Indian brands and SII does not make any of the combined vaccines (four in one or five in one) which contain 12.5 mcg ethylmercury as compared to the child receiving 50 or 75 mcg if vaccines are given individually. The other children in her school are from very wealthy homes and would usually go to private pediatricians who would give imported vaccines or at least the combined vaccines.This results in less mercury for the child
I am sure that there are many young doctors in the U.S. whose children have suffered as a result of vaccines, but remember, not everyone realizes that it has happened. There are always plenty of ways to explain away the health issues. I have four grandchildren, none raised in India and not one has been without health issues, but if you were to look at them you would think that they are all perfectly normal, healthy kids.
Posted by: Cherry Sperlin Misra | August 22, 2011 at 01:56 PM
Here are some facts that are far less likely to be mentioned about the smallpox vaccine:
“..Chief Medical Officer of England announced in May 1871 that 97.5 percent had been vaccinated. In the following year, 1872, England experienced it’s worst-ever smallpox epidemic, which claimed 44,840 lives..”
“..In Scotland, between 1855-1875, over 9,000 children under 5 died of smallpox despite Scotland being, at that time, one of the most vaccinated countries in the world. In 1907 to 1919, with only a third of the children vaccinated, only 7 smallpox deaths were recorded for children under 5 years of age..”
".. Japan started compulsory vaccination against smallpox in 1872 and continued it for many years with disastrous results. Smallpox steadily increased each year and in 1892 their records showed 165,774 cases with 29,979 deaths -- all vaccinated.
".. In the Philippines between 1917 and 1919, the U.S. government staged a compulsory vaccination campaign which brought on the worst epidemic of smallpox in this island nation's history with 162,503 reported cases and 71,453 deaths -- all vaccinated.. "
The real truth, is that vaccines are the most important weapon in the arsenal of a corrupt medical system, which DEPENDS on people being sick. Vaccines don't actually prevent disease at all, which is why you regularly see outbreaks of "vaccine preventable" diseases in fully vaccinated populations. The true purpose of vaccines, is to attack that part of our body which NATURE designed to keep us healthy.
It's a pretty simple, albeit diabolical plan. And although most people struggle to see it today, others saw it coming a long time ago:
"Unless we put medical freedom into the Constitution, the time will come when medicine will organize into an undercover dictatorship ... To restrict the art of healing to one class of men and deny equal privileges to others, will constitute the Bastille of medical science."
-- Benjamin Rush, M.D.
Signatory to the Declaration of Independence
Physician to George Washington
Posted by: Barry | August 19, 2011 at 07:34 AM
There are way too many vaccine injuries out there to say that vaccines are safe. There needs to be much, much research when it comes to medicine. There also needs to be much better training of medical staff here in the United States. Our healthcare system is ridiculous because even though it does save many lives, it is also about greed and eego!
I have worked in the insurance industry for over 20 years, handling personal injury and worker's compensation claims. When you see many instances to where the same diagnostic studies are read completely different by two different doctors in an effort to provide support for one side or the other, you have to question the training and the motives of many of those in the medical field. Same goes with pharmaceuticals. Very few drugs actually heal anything. Once you are on many of them, you are on them for life. But many meds and vaccines do way too much harm to even be out there!Who benefits? The doctors and the drug industry!
Posted by: Robert Hutchins | August 18, 2011 at 10:29 PM
Not to belabor the smallpox issue, but I just found this link to Dr. Tenpenny's article re: smallpox and it's really well worth the read: http://chetday.com/smallpoxepidemic.htm
"Myth 2: Smallpox Is Easily Spread by Casual Contact with an Infected Person
Smallpox will not rapidly disseminate throughout the community. Even after the development of the rash, the infection is slow to spread. “The infection is spread by droplet contamination and coughing or sneezing are not generally part of the infection.
Smallpox will not spread like wildfire,” said Orenstein. He stated that the spread of smallpox to casual contacts is the “exception to the rule.” Only 8% of cases in Africa were contracted by accidental contact.
Transmission of smallpox occurs only after intense contact, defined as “constant exposure of a person that is within 6-7 feet for a minimum of 6-7 days.” Dr. Orenstein reported that in Africa, 92% of all cases came from close associations and, in India, all cases came from prolonged personal contact.
Dr. Tom Mack from the University of Southern California stated that in Pakistan, 27% of cases demonstrated no transmission to close associates. Nearly 37% had a transmission of only one generation, meaning that the second person to contract smallpox did not pass it onto the third person. These statistics directly contradict models that predict an exponential spread to millions.
Even without medical care, isolation was the best way to stop the spread of smallpox in Third World, population dense areas. With a slow transmission rate and an informed public, Mack estimated that the total number of smallpox cases in America would be less than 10, a far cry from the millions postulated by the press.
Dr. Kuritsky said at the CDC Public Forum on Smallpox on June 8 in St. Louis, “Given the slow transmission rate and that people need to be in close contact for nearly a week to spread the infection, the scenario in which a terrorist could infect himself with smallpox and contaminate an entire city by walking through the streets touching people is purely fiction.”
Point to ponder:
Mass vaccination was halted in Third World countries because it didn’t work. In India, villages with an 88% vaccination rate still had outbreaks. After the World Health Organization began a surveillance and containment campaign, actively seeking cases of smallpox, isolating them in their homes, and vaccinating family members and close contacts, outbreaks were virtually eliminated within two years.
The CDC and the WHO organization attribute the eradication of smallpox to the ring vaccination of close contacts. However, since the infection runs its course in 3-6 weeks, perhaps ISOLATION ALONE would have effectively accomplished the same thing."
Posted by: Bayareamom | August 18, 2011 at 10:00 PM
Hippocratic Oath to the Hypocritic Oath? Pricelesssss Garbo!
Posted by: Benedetta | August 18, 2011 at 09:47 PM
This will give you an idea:
Posted by: Garbo | August 18, 2011 at 08:58 PM
AussieMuM: David Amaral is a pschychologist and the director of the UC Davis MIND institute in California, one of the largest autism centers in the US.
Here is more info on him:
And here is a recent interview with him from the PBS autism series:
If you are asking about his views on vaccines, he is very cautious and likes to avoid this subject like most researcher. Hope this helps.
Posted by: Cassandra | August 18, 2011 at 08:52 PM
In the mid 90s I was working for a law and lobbying firm in Washington, D.C. that was retained by National Association of Manufacturers and the National Employers' Association. The associations had successfully convinced a pharmaceutical company to create a vaccine for varicella. Why? Because every time a child has chicken pox, a parent is out of work for a week or more and this "absenteeism" affects productivity. Therefore their efforts to create a vaccine for the disease, in spite of the lack of any medical need for its creation. The law/lobbying firm was retained to lobby all 50 states to get the (shiny new) varicella vaccine on the lists of mandatory vaccinations. Which they did.
The rest is history.
Posted by: Ami | August 18, 2011 at 07:48 PM
This is a little off track but does anyone know of a:-
DAVID AMARAL PhD ?
He is visiting here on the 16th September and I have received an invitation from my local University.
Posted by: AussieMum | August 18, 2011 at 07:46 PM
Bayareamom and In: Yes, there are some who disagree with Dr Shiv Chopra, (who I sourced earlier) on this one-point, that the smallpox vaccine eradicated smallpox. However, Dr Chopra has fought a tireless battle to stop the government from allowing Canadians to be exposed to ineffective and harmful vaccines, genetically modified foods, pesticides, carcinogenic antibiotics etc. He was fired from "Health Canada" the equivalent of the FDA in the US for insubordination. He's one of the "good guys". Please, read the link I posted on my earlier blog.
Posted by: Rachael | August 18, 2011 at 06:11 PM
Get real ln look at 300 million doses of smallpox vaccine used in a ring vaccination policy to rid Africa of the scourge of smallpox, why do think smallpox was eradicated on a country by country basis following the implementation of the policy, there is no smallpox, its not relabelled, its just eradicated, do you really think you're helping the autistic community by peddling such nonsense. Show me reliable evidence of 1 case of smallpox, apart from virus escapes from laboratories to justify claims it hasn't been eradicated by vaccination
Posted by: Eindekker | August 18, 2011 at 05:55 PM
Rachael wrote: "... The possibility of eradicating polio in the same way is open to scientific debate.."
I'm not sure that science had anything to do with the so called "eradication" of polio
When the polio vaccine was introduced, so too were amendments to how polio was defined. A polio epidemic suddenly required more cases to be reported. And the definition for paralytic polio was also amended, a change that suddenly made it more difficult to confirm (.. and then COUNT) new polio cases
Before the polio vaccine, patients had to exhibit paralytic symptoms for 24 hours only, and lab tests to confirm residual paralysis were not required. With the amended definition, paralytic symptoms were suddenly required for a minimum 60 days, and confirmation of residual paralysis was required at least twice during the course of the disease.
This shift in reporting protocol is curious to say the least. Especially when you consider that paralytic polio was known to cure itself 50% of the time within 60 days. And particularly when you consider that just before the polio vaccine was introduced, the National Foundation for Infantile Paralysis was paying physicians $25 for every paralytic polio diagnosis (.. so you can bet that polio, or anything that even looked like polio, was being COUNTED as polio).
But the charade didn’t just end there. Infections of aseptic meningitis and coxsackie virus (…diseases which are difficult to distinguish from polio), were suddenly being reported as diseases separate from polio. This definitely wasn’t the case before the polio vaccine was introduced, when all 3 infections were reported ( and COUNTED) as polio.
So while the effectiveness of the polio vaccine was reported as being stellar, was it really? Because the definition change ALONE would have wiped out polio in the years following the vaccine. And there simply is no credible, scientific evidence to prove that the vaccine caused polio to disappear.
Posted by: Barry | August 18, 2011 at 05:51 PM
Does anyone know which year was it that med schools switched from the Hippocratic Oath to the Hypocritic Oath? I want to add it to my Annals of Modern Medicine timeline. Was it the same year they stopped teaching doctors how to actually recognize diseases like chicken pox, measles, and pertussis in their patients, or did that come afterward?
Posted by: Garbo | August 18, 2011 at 05:46 PM
Regarding smallpox and the belief that the vaccine eradicated it, you might want to read this article first. It's an amazing amount of information and also further illustrates the culture in the medical community of never looking further than what is being taught in medical school.
Posted by: ln | August 18, 2011 at 04:24 PM
"Vaccines work, Lisa. Look at polio."
Shotguns, steamrollers, and nuclear weapons work as well.
So busy "looking" at (fearing) the threat that we don't even see the people (casualties) anymore.
Posted by: Shiny Happy Person | August 18, 2011 at 04:06 PM
Here is some interesting information not commonly known (maybe more so in this community)
Education and awareness are not enough.....we need more people/doctors/experts, etc... who are honest, and will not compromise their ehtical/moral/spiritual integrity for any reason, and that will stand firm and steadfast in the truth regardless of the consequences!
Posted by: Dr. Jerry Taylor | August 18, 2011 at 04:05 PM
I have had this in my library for quite a few years now......
Here is another incredible website with gems of informaiton to sort through and learn from....if we do not learn from the past, we are destined to make the same mistakes.....this is a choice for all of us......I have spent more time perusingand studying history than swallowing what is peddled currently in regards to medicine and politics, and I can honestly say that I have learned exponentially more about being a true doctor/healer because of it.
Most people do not want to accept that it is as bad as it is (this is human nature), let alone discover that it is even worse than that.......
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all argument, and which cannot fail to keep man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is condemnation without investigation.
Herbert Spencer (1820-1903)
Posted by: Dr. Jerry Taylor | August 18, 2011 at 03:51 PM
Actually, there is evidence and data to prove that the smallpox vaccination campaign did not eradicate smallpox. According to Dr. Lawrence Palevsky, "ring vaccination" is what helped to eradicate smallpox in certain areas. Dr. Sherri Tenpenny also has excellent documentation in some of her literature as to this, as well.
You can hear Dr. Palevsky speak about this issue during his interview with Dr. Joseph Mercola over at Youtube, under "Expert Pediatricians Speaks About Vaccines."
Posted by: Bayareamom | August 18, 2011 at 03:28 PM
Prompted by the post on top today, I also wonder how likely a hospital is to vaccinate a doctor's child against their wishes, and then not record it to protect themselves. I also wonder how likely a pediatrician in that case will repeat the vaccine two weeks later because it is not in the records ignoring the word of the medical parent that the vaccine was already given?
Posted by: Jeannette Bishop | August 18, 2011 at 02:42 PM
Vaccination did successfully eradicate smallpox. The possibility of eradicating polio in the same way is open to scientific debate. All the other childhood diseases have been unsuccessfully fought with vaccination campaigns involving millions of children every year. Worst of all, these diseases are appearing with increasing frequency in the very populations that have been vaccinated for several generations. Clearly, something is wrong with these programs. The list of vaccines being administered to young children has been enlarged to include many more viral and bacterial infections with little or no scientific rationale.
Posted by: Rachael | August 18, 2011 at 02:32 PM
I recall 10 years ago when i first set foot on the autism trail , my son saw a cranial osteopath. Over the months of appointments we had many interesting conversations. One of which was the number of children he saw whose parents were in the medical profession who didnt vaccinate their children, we are not just talking drs, but nurses, midwives, health visitors and GP's. When he questioned one GP as to how he could vaccinate other children when he wouldnt vaccinate his own until he considered them "to be strong enough to deal with the assault". His response was "its what he is paid to do"!
I think the hippocratic oath "first do no harm" has no value to many of todays medical staff, its just words that they recite without actually thinking about their true meaning. Perhaps it should be changed "as long as i am alright jack"!
I think the numbers who dont vaccinate is growing not diminishing!
thanks for a great article.
Posted by: NR | August 18, 2011 at 02:31 PM
"Vaccines work. Look at polio."
Posted by: Sue | August 18, 2011 at 11:52 AM
Dr. Jerry Taylor:
No I did not know about the whooping cough germ, Bacillus pertussis, when injected into animals, has long been known to lead to the secretion of insulin.
I did know that my family all seems to have trouble breaking down carbs and making them into energy, and they called it acquired mitrochondrial cytopathy.
Thanks for the info.
Fear, Fatigue, and remolding is also part of the problem in medical schools, along with the choosing the wrong kind of student in the first place to become a doctor. .
Sorry you are in such debt. I hope the best for you.
Also goes to prove that medical schools still can't keep out all of the true artists. Andrew Wakefield is another true artist that they could not keep out.
Posted by: Benedetta | August 18, 2011 at 10:04 AM
Dr Taylor, I commend you! We need more doctors like you.
@Barry: By no means was I trying to excuse doctors. I am appalled just like you by their negligence and duplicity in this tragedy.
Posted by: Cassandra | August 18, 2011 at 09:57 AM
I was actually contacted by a doctor- a neonatologist- that wanted to help my son with homeopathy. She earns her living vaccinating kids (among other things she does) but practices homeopathy on the side with her own family. She does not vaccinate her kids. All healthy.. "normal".... I asked her how she handles it with her colleagues. Quote: "we don't discuss it, it's none of their business".
LJ is definitely on to something. I bet a lot of physicians don't vaccinate.
And vaccinating leads to more reasons to see the doctor. However it may present itself. Little vials of future earnings. Vaccines keep healthcare booming. What doesn't kill you makes you go back to see the doctor. Chronic illness vs. acute illness... Chronic is way more profitable.
Posted by: LJ knows | August 18, 2011 at 09:45 AM
after all these years of dealing with autism and poison-pushing medical personnel, by the time i have gotten to my youngest child i have finally gotten a respectable pediatrician for my tribe. she told me 1st off to simply remind her staff(meaning the nurses and medical assistants that do initial checks, weigh-ins,etc) that i do not do vaccin8ions and she will honor my wishes. On another visit when we had gotten into a convers8ion about the whole vaccine-autism thing again,(WE ACTUALLY EVEN MUTUALLY AGREED THAT IT IS LIKELY A COMBIN8ION OF GENETIC-BIOLOGICAL-ENVIORNMENTAL FACTORS) she told me (not very loudly)that she vaccin8s her own children on HER OWN schedule and NOT the AAPs. LORD BLESS HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! finally a doctor who attempts to understand. WE NEED MORE LIKE HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DOCTORS WHO TRULY CARE ABOUT A PATIENT'S HEALTH AND WELL-BEING, I FORGOT THAT THEY CAN EXIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: HONEYBOO'S MOMMY | August 18, 2011 at 08:38 AM
Cassandra wrote : ".... Most (doctors) don't have the time or the curiosity to read up on the science behind the medications they prescribe daily. They are generally ignorant of nutrition and its role in health...."
I'm not a doctor, but I am a husband, and the father of two young boys... one of whom has been diagnosed with autism. I’m also the only working member in my family, due in large part to the additional care that my autistic son requires. My work is a minimum of 40 hours weekly, but it is quite often more when paid overtime becomes available... due again to the additional care, and costly biomedical treatments that my autistic son now requires.
My life is busier right now than I had ever envisioned it could be. But you know what? I found the time to figure out that my son’s autism was nothing more than vaccine damage. And I also did that in spite of decades of targeted brainwashing, which has conditioned us all to trust strangers in white lab coats. And more importantly, to NEVER question the safety or efficacy of any vaccine.
I don’t mean to be rude, but I think it’s more than a little flip to say that doctors "don't have the time" to understand the medicines they prescribe. Being a doctor is a huge responsibility, but it’s a responsibility that they willingly embrace. To excuse them of that responsibility is like saying a busy pilot doesn't really need to understand his commercial aircraft.
My child didn't receive his vaccines from a drug rep, he received them from a doctor. A doctor that I trusted with his future, because I assumed that doctor had taken the time to fully understand the medications she was administering. She clearly did not. And unfortunately, one of the biggest victims of that “busy schedule” is my autistic son.
Posted by: Barry | August 18, 2011 at 07:14 AM
Doctors will have more lives to answer for in the next world than even we generals. - Napoleon Bonaparte
Posted by: GH | August 18, 2011 at 06:17 AM
ALL doctors and vaccine safety propagandists should be forced by law to reveal what vaccine choices they made on behalf of THEIR OWN children. I think it is extremely hypocritical of doctors to extoll the virtues of vaccination, when speaking to their patients and publicly, whilst making SAFER vaccine choices for their own children. For a paediadrician to rely on 'herd immunity', (i.e. other children being vaccinated), to protect his own children is nothing less than criminal in my opinion.
In the UK, we had a situation where our own Prime Minister REFUSED to reveal whether or not his infant son had been administered the MMR vaccine. This was at the height of the Wakefield controversy and Tony Blair's refusal added to parental concerns about the MMR vaccine. The reason given was little Leo's confidentiality, but no one cares about the confidentiality of the Lancet 12 children after Brian Deer illegally got hold of their confidential medical casenotes. If Leo Blair was vaccinated with MMR, then Tony Blair had a DUTY to tell the world; this would have boosted confidence in the vaccine worldwide.
As in law, refusal to disclose evidence, can lead to the assumption of probability!! I know what I think!! It was Tony Blair's Government Health Minister, John Reid, who was responsible for instigating the GMC investigation which ultimately led to Dr Wakefield's and Professor Walker Smith's removal from the medical register.
Posted by: Jenny Allan | August 18, 2011 at 02:26 AM
This reminds me of Bill Maher's Huffpo article about vaccines, in which he said, "I've been finding that people, including doctors, are privately expressing a skepticism that is still not very prevalent in public. I feel like I've become a confessor for people who want someone to be raising questions about vaccines."
Posted by: Twyla | August 18, 2011 at 01:39 AM
Posted by: nike dunk sb | August 18, 2011 at 01:12 AM
Sometimes I wonder, even among physicians who see themselves as dutifully vaccinating their own, if they are as likely to vaccinate their child with a fever, or schedule their infant's well-baby appointments a couple weeks early like my daughter's pediatrician tended to, or include them in any vaccine trials, or give them the same "well-preserved" vaccines from multi-dose vials, or give them a dose removed from a vial known to not be correctly agitated or stored...
I wonder if they are more likely to leave out some of the less "beneficial" vaccines and not "really required" vaccines, hold off more on some of the newer ones, and yet not see the difference in their choices and what goes on for the rest of us?
Posted by: Jeannette Bishop | August 17, 2011 at 10:33 PM
I've lost all confidence in mainstream medicine over the vaccine-autism controversy.
Pediatricians must be seeing lots of mild to severe vaccine reactions and telling themselves over and over that the seizures, diarrhea, sleep disorders, etc. have nothing to do with the shots. They see more and more sick and disabled kids and yet they're raising no alarm. None. The autism rate could be one in 25 and they'd still take credit for it as "better diagnosing."
It's especially disturbing that mainstream medicine could care less that there isn't a vaccinated/unvaccinated study out there to back up the claim of no link. Having more and more vaccines on the schedule is acceptable to doctors. They can take refuge in the blanket protection over vaccine damage. Why should they care? They're never going to be held responsible. They can't be sued.
And last of all, I'm in total disbelief that there are really doctors out there who know the side effects are possible, they protect their own families by not vaccinating, yet they're happy to play Russian roulette with the lives of their young patients.
Posted by: Anne McElroy Dachel | August 17, 2011 at 09:25 PM
Dr. Robert Mendelsohn Quote:
Medical students are further softened up by being maliciously fatigued. The way to weaken a person’s will in order to mold him to suit your purposes is to make him work hard, especially at night, and never give him a chance to recover. You teach the rat to race. The result is a person too weak to resist the most debilitating instrument medical school uses on its students: fear.
If I had to characterize doctors, I would say their major psychological attribute is fear. They have a drive to achieve security-plus that’s never satisfied because of all the fear that’s drummed into them in medical school: fear of failure, fear of missing a diagnosis, fear of malpractice, fear of remarks by their peers, fear that they’ll have to find honest work. There was a movie some time ago that opened with a marathon dance contest. After a certain length of time all the contestants were eliminated except one. Everybody had to fail except the winner. That’s what medical school has become. Since everybody can’t win, everybody suffers from a loss of self-esteem. Everybody comes out of medical school feeling bad.
Doctors are given one reward for swallowing the fear pill so willingly and for sacrificing the healing instincts and human emotions that might help their practice: arrogance. To hide their fear, they’re taught to adopt the authoritarian attitude and demeanor of their professors.
"Did you know that the whooping cough germ, Bacillus pertussis, when injected into animals, has long been known to lead to the secretion of insulin? In 1979, at the Fourth International Symposium on Pertussis, held in Bethesda, Maryland, it was shown that this same result occurs in those who have received pertussis vaccine. In their publication, "Adverse Reactions after Pertussis Vaccination," Drs. W. Hennessen and U. Quast suggest, "It seemed of interest to examine these reactions in comparison with the hypoglycemia syndrome.. . .There was a close relation between the two.’ If your child has juvenile diabetes (a disease characterized by wide swings in blood sugar levels), ask your doctor if he has ever heard of this effect of whooping cough vaccine. Maybe it’s time to investigate whether the pertussis vaccine has anything to do with the rapidly rising number of people with juvenile diabetes, adult diabetes, and all hypoglycemic disorders of insulin metabolism."---Dr Mendelsohn MD (the Peoples Doctor Vol 6 No10)
"Almost every stage of obstetrical procedure in the hospital is part of the mechanism that enables the doctor to create his own pathology."
"Modern Medicine would rather you die using its remedies than live by using what physicians call quackery".--Dr Robert Mendelsohn, M.D.
"With the polio vaccine we are witnessing a rerun of the medical reluctance to abandon the smallpox vaccination, which remained as the only source of smallpox-related deaths for three decades after the disease had disappeared. Think of it! For thirty years kids died from smallpox vaccinations even though no longer threatened by the disease."----Dr Robert Mendelsohn, M.D.
Posted by: Dr. Jerry Taylor | August 17, 2011 at 09:02 PM
This is the first time I have commented on a forum like this, even though I am an adamant follower of AoA. I am sick and tired of the copouts, excuses, drivel, whining from my so called professional colleagues, it is unconscionable the level it has reached!
I am a doctor with 300,000 in debt, but I refuse to compromise what is right and true for anything......
I started doing housecalls when I began my practice in 2008, and still do them. I am a certified DAN! and also a Naturopathic Medical Doctor. The home is absolutely the best environment to see the family in, and I will continue.
I am not afraid of the system, and will never compromise my integrity for money, threat, etc....We all know the problems that exist in the world of heroic medicne, and this will not change so we must create our own platform that works.
This is a crime against humanity on so many levels, and those who choose to remain ignorant are just as guilty as the perpetrators.
By the way, I have a wife and five children one of which (2nd child born) is now recovered (this happened before I went to med school). So I have no sympathy, and only for those who compromise for money or fear, just because they have some debt and are afraid. I am no different than any of them except for my choices. This issue is all about choice, and there is way too much evidence, data, etc.....available for doctors to claim that they are innocently ignorant. They choose not to do their due diligence, and for that they should all lose their license.
The Hippocratic oath has been re-written to meet the changes that have occurred in the establishment medical field, and this is a unconscionable tragedy.
Posted by: Dr. Jerry Taylor | August 17, 2011 at 08:48 PM
Guys, let me apologize for the typo--Merck and Pfizer owe over 19 BILLION...not million. Repugnant, either way. lj
Posted by: LJ Goes | August 17, 2011 at 08:07 PM
Thanks for this very interesting and revealing article.
I wonder why the government and the medical system are so interested in getting everyone vaccinated, but why they are not so concerned about the epidemic of autism, ADHD, and chronic illness in today's children. If they care so much about children, they would be doing whatever they can to find out the cause or causes of autism. They are more concerned about assuring parents that there is "no connection" between vaccines and autism.
Posted by: VMV | August 17, 2011 at 07:46 PM
"All babies get that in the hospital at birth? Everybody does it."
Many children try the "everybody does it" argument on parents. This doctor apparently never heard the common (adult) response: "If everybody jumped off a cliff, would you jump off too?" After getting that response, children tend to not argue that "everybody" does something.
Also, "everybody does it" is hardly scientific. Surely a "scientist" could make a much better argument.
It is past time for medical personnel to stop trying to push parents and their children off that (metaphorical) cliff.
Posted by: Carolyn M | August 17, 2011 at 06:03 PM
"Vaccines work, look at polio?" Really?
Under developed countries have plenty of polio vaccine and also plenty of polio.
I've often wondered how the epidemic of vaccine damage hasn't hit the medical community as hard as the rest of us. Probably because they don't vaccinate. Think about it, if you see it in your practice, you won't vaccinate your own kids. You do what you need to, to keep your job.
Thanks for the article Lisa.
Posted by: Cynthia Cournoyer | August 17, 2011 at 05:45 PM
The doctors who are my friends are all emphatically pro-vaccine, and give their own children every vaccine that is recommended.
So far, none of their children have ever had a reaction.
And they were not at my house when I held my seizing baby, an hour after his 2-month vaccines, or when my 6-month-old daughter was unconscious for 2 days after her vaccines, or...
They have never seen a vaccine reaction first hand, so they DON'T GET IT.
And I'm not sure how I can blame them for that, because I didn't get it, either, until my own children had reactions. And even then, while I instinctively knew that they were having severe reactions, I let myself believe the nurses and doctors who told me "vaccines don't do that," until it was just too obvious.
I am not a doctor. So I have nothing to hide, no allegiance to the pharm industry, because they didn't train me. Yet it STILL took me literally years to connect the dots, even though my first thought was "this is a reaction to the vaccine."
We expect the doctors to know better, but let's face it, they went through 6 or more years of total brain-washing, while being sleep-deprived. They face massive amounts of debt right out of med school.
The only (sad) light at the end of the tunnel that I can see is that more and more doctors will be seeing their own children have severe reactions--including brain damage--to vaccines. And only then will they take a stand.
Dr. Poling as a perfect example.
Posted by: Taximom | August 17, 2011 at 05:17 PM
Great information. My grandson is two and has only had the bare minimum vaccines (same ones my daughter had 25 years ago). I had to guard him when he was born because the nurses are very quick with the needles and formula. I believe we have a very healthy, calm, intelligent two year old because we kept medical "stuff" including vaccines to a minimum. He has only been "sick" once and that was because we actually took him to the doctor when he ran a higher fever. Kudos to all the information and articles. Please keep it up because I am truly frightened by the unhealthiness of the youngest generation right now. We need healthy babies and children to grown more healthy babies and children. How sad if we vaccinated our country right out of existence.
Posted by: Kat Long | August 17, 2011 at 03:41 PM
There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Posted by: Adam M | August 17, 2011 at 03:28 PM
RE: At that time, I mentioned our third child (who does not have autism) had not yet received the vax. He rolled his eyes and said, "Why? All babies get that in the hospital at birth? Everybody does it." His tone was accusatory but he offered no explanation as to why it was important.The Doctor on Vaccines in General:
"I don't vaccinate my kids. I rely on herd immunity, which is selfish I know. Herd immunity basically means I am relying on the fact that everyone else is vaccinated. I know it's wrong...They (his children) are fine. I might (vaccinate) when it comes time for them to go to high school because I don't want them to have to miss out on travel opportunities. They are all perfectly healthy."
Woe unto them that call evil good and good evil.
Posted by: Adam M | August 17, 2011 at 03:21 PM
I wholeheartedly agree with all those stating they would like to know if their pediatrician or doctor "vaccinates his own kids".
In addition .. I would also like to know how many doctors and pediatricians voluntarily comply as requested by the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) .. to wit:
"Please report all significant adverse events that occur after vaccination of adults and children, even if you are not sure whether the vaccine caused the adverse event".
It is widely suspected that less than 10% of doctors comply as requested by VAERS .. which means .. 90% do not.
Shouldn't parents expect doctors to maintain the same percentage in reporting adverse events as "herd immunity"?
In any event .. what steps has VAERS taken to maintain their credibility .. as the single federal bureaucracy responsibility for monitoring and evaluating adverse events following vaccinations?
Do they maintain a data base containing the reporting records of doctors? Do they issue an annual "certificate of compliance" to those doctors who deserve it that can then be posted in the doctors waiting room for all parents to see? Do they visit doctor offices and interview staff to make certain both know what should be considered an adverse event that must be reported? Do they post indications of adverse events in the waiting room so parents can know what should be considered an adverse event?
Indeed .. have they done ANYTHING to dispel the widespread perception that most vaccine adverse events go unreported?
After all .. if 90% are not reporting adverse events as requested by VAERS .. how can anyone .. including VAERS .. claim to know the "benefits of vaccines outweigh the risks"?
Posted by: Bob Moffitt | August 17, 2011 at 02:58 PM
I would guess a young AAP doctor is $300,000 in debt with med school and setting up an office.
Their practice depends on an endless row of "well baby visits" with vaccines which will then produce more "sick baby" visits.
The hep b vaccine remains the most worthless vaccine on the schedule.
Posted by: cmo | August 17, 2011 at 02:55 PM
A very wry conclusion to a very revealing article. Every medical appointment is a fascinating look at the dynamics of human interaction. Each clinic has its staff hierarchy and pecking order, with doctors displaying varying power plays to stay on top. Many feel threatened when educated patients bump them off balance by offering more information than a mere recitation of symptoms. Why shouldn't patients be full partners in the health maintenance process?
Posted by: nhokkanen | August 17, 2011 at 02:46 PM
Reading these comments about doctors who stand by and do nothing about the damage being done reminds me of Kitty Genovese. Our children are suffering from bystander effect and diffusion of responsibility.
Posted by: Madvocate | August 17, 2011 at 02:09 PM
This article also reminded me of a chapter of book I read on the life of Louis XIV. The author commented on infant mortality in the 17th century:
"Infant mortality was appalling; and the doctors were responsible. When a child was ailing, first they bled it, then purged it and then administered an emetic whic generally did the trick. They never noticed that this treatment left anything to be desired, and though of course the mothers and nurses knew, they could do nothing, since pious public opinion would have accused them of murder had they refused to let the doctors have their way."
The more things change, the more they stay the same. The doctors then were so sure that they were right. If the patient died or was disabled, it was said to be God's will. Now we just blame bad genes.
Posted by: Sylvia | August 17, 2011 at 01:34 PM
I recently had to opportunity to speak to some of the top autism researchers in the world. All 3 said off the record that they did not support the Hepatitis B vaccine for newborns and infants. They agreed that there was no need for this vaccine at all for children. But they won't make those statements publicly. It is too much of a political hot potato to say ANYTHING negative about ANY VACCINE. They all know the risks of this vaccine are high and the benefits are non-existent. But they won't say a word about it.
Posted by: Sylvia | August 17, 2011 at 01:25 PM
"The cynical view would be that they are highly skilled pharma technicians dispensing medications."
That's not cynical at all! It's the truth.
Posted by: Bayareamom | August 17, 2011 at 12:55 PM
You state you are married to a pediatrician and that a lot of your friends are physicians. May I ask you if you are at all aware if ANY of your physician friends ever discuss among themselves any issues they may be secretly harboring as to vaccines.
I know that certain pediatricians, such as Lawrence Palevsky, have stated on record that many physicians they know have expressed doubts about the U.S. infant immunization program, but do not dare speak openly about their concerns (for obvious reasons).
I have personally interviewed several physicians, several of whom have openly admitted to me that they do not vaccinate either their children or grandchildren.
I realize my question falls flat against your comments above, but I cannot help but wonder how many pediatricians do NOT vaccinate their own children, etc., given what I've been told by a few of them myself, in past years.
Posted by: Bayareamom | August 17, 2011 at 12:52 PM
I am in agreement with JB Handley - vaccines don't cause autism - pediatricians do!
Posted by: Theodore Van Oosbree | August 17, 2011 at 12:45 PM
I agree 100% with what Bendetta said. The problem is that doctors are (in general) slaves to dogma, are able to repeat back facts they read or heard. Those are the people who are admitted to medical schools. I have a lot of experience with young pediatricians (because I'm married to one, and thus lots of our friends are MDs) and they vaccinate their kids on the CDC schedule without deviation, without giving it a second thought. They've been taught to practice "cookbook medicine" which means blindly following AMA, AAP, CDC guidelines. Pediatricians don't get visited by pharm reps because pharm reps know the best way to get to the peds is through those parent organizations. Most of these docs don't give vaccines even a passing thought, just "semmelweiss reflex" and parroting back the AAP directives. The question has been asked and answered. There have been over a dozen studies that "prove" there is no link. That doctor in the UK who said there was a link is a fraud.
You give them too much credit to think they actually think about health issues. Unless of course they've been personally affected.....
Posted by: cookbook medicine | August 17, 2011 at 12:21 PM
It would be nice to have a national survey of doctors about vaccines.
I think the results would be very revealing. We are not going to have change until this system of hypocrisy is exposed. I would like to force all physicians and CDC workers to reveal under oath how they vaccinate or not vaccinate their own children.
I'd like to make one thing clear, doctors in general are not scientists. Most don't have the time or the curiosity to read up on the science behind the medications they prescribe daily.
They are generally ignorant of nutrition and its role in health. The cynical view would be that they are highly skilled pharma technicians dispensing medications.
Posted by: Cassandra | August 17, 2011 at 11:41 AM
Had I known the motivation was for their gain, or to cover their behinds, I would have never vaccinated with this much conflicts of interests, let alone, the sheer science that it damages our children. When my daughter came to live with us with our grandson, our first order of business was to find someone who wouldn't vaccinate at all. I found it in our GP, who saw the "damage done" on my children who are older. Here's the deal. GP's are least likely to be vaccine happy, and that's fine with me. Find a doctor who works with a Naturopath in his office, and I will find you someone who is getting the real story on vaccines. Either (if you can) find a GP who is affiliated with ACAM or is practicing alone without "partners who love vaccines", or someone who is working with an ND, or better yet, an ND! I only wish I could turn back time, knowing what I know now...sigh...
Posted by: kathy blanco | August 17, 2011 at 11:30 AM
At first I thought this was a "look at this great doctor, he is questioning vaccines" article that had a doctor that was borderline moronic. How could he not know about the supreme court decision? How can he rely on herd immunity when herd immunity doesn't exist (Based on simple math, the number of people who would have to be up-to-date on vaccines, which includes adults, it's just not possible. Then add in the fact that most of the vaccines aren't as effective as reported.). But then I realized (maybe I am as dumb as he is) that Lisa was making a much bigger point. And it goes back to what I have been thinking for a while now "it's the doctors that are the problem."
Posted by: ln | August 17, 2011 at 11:15 AM
Yes, look at polio. And vaccine associated polio cases. And SV40 - the gift that keeps on giving.
I always appreciate your straightforwardness, Lisa. Keep hammering them - you never know when a seed has been planted.
Posted by: BJ | August 17, 2011 at 10:21 AM
Doctors are scientists and there lays the problem.
The medical schools pick those type of students that can repeat perfectly everything they have ever read or saw or heard. Do math really well.
These may not make the best doctors, because doctoring I have always heard is an art.
A Science based art, but and art.
Docs by the way are no more of a scientist than a highschool science teacher is, maybe less so.
The type of students that are being picked by medical schools are perhaps not that creative to be an artist, or a true thinker, but a slave to dogma. They mayb not even be that workified (well not in way - they have never had to struggle or worked much to learn as many others with lesser abilities).
I am not wrong on this, because any teacher will tell you that the student that made a 25 to 30 on the ACT scores is a long way from the sure thing of succeeding in college or life. Their intellect has come way too easy and they really don't know how to really put the nose to the grind stone day in and day out.
That said; how many times have we said something and they have no idea what we are talking about even when we are quoting sure enough studies.
For example; my recent visit to a neurologist nurse practionier who did not even know that Kalwasakis was a mulit - organ vasculities - she thought it involved the heart only. Okay so she is a neurologist but her son had Kawasakis 20 plus years ago.
Posted by: Benedetta | August 17, 2011 at 10:06 AM
"The doctor is unusually brave and honest. He has to support his own family, and protect his income,"
The rest of us support our families and protect our incomes without causing other human beings to become autistic. Doctors who don't vaccinate their own children while vaccinating other people's children to earn a living are neither brave nor honest.
Let's not confuse the doctor's candidness with ONE PARENT with either bravery or honesty.
Lisa, thank you for sharing this very revealing conversation. We'll never know how many docs are not vaccinating their own children, will we?
Posted by: Madvocate | August 17, 2011 at 10:04 AM
The doctor is unusually brave and honest. He has to support his own family, and protect his income, which depends on a number of things- employee vs. partner status within his own group (or perhaps an employee of a larger system, like a hospital group.) Malpractice is a real threat- if a kid picks up chicken pox in the practice's waiting room, the doctor who "tolerates" non-vaccinating families can get sued. He could lose his license, if any whack job like Kathleen Seidel decides to anonymously complain to the state board. To say nothing of the cognitive dissonance he must experience daily- reconciling good medical practice (as acknowledged even by Canary Partiers) with the bad- both taught by the same mainstream sources.
Keep it up, Lisa- this is a valuable relationship for both you and the doctor.
Posted by: Nirvana | August 17, 2011 at 09:13 AM
"You have to understand, doctors are scientists. We pride ourselves on our knowledge."
Really? Thanks for the laugh. Your comments indicate that, at least when it comes to vaccines, most Doctors are spinless paid sheep who don't have the balls to discuss vaccination policy and effectiveness openly and honestly. Makes me respect Dr. Wakefield even more.
Rest easy "Doctor", at least your kids are fine.
Posted by: Mike | August 17, 2011 at 08:56 AM
I think there are many many more docs that don't vaccinate their own than we know. Many admit it when pressed by their patients. The problem is, most patients don't even DREAM to ask questions.
My own ped is careful with his patients. He refuses HepB for them all at the hospital and carries very few vax in the office. If you want flu or HepA and a few others, he says you can go to the health dept.
He has to keep everyone actively vaccinated, tho, there has been an incident of an insurance company coming in to audit him. If, after pulling random files, they determined his patients were not vaccinated properly, then they could have pulled their insurance from his office. I believe this is a motivation to vax like none other....
He has done this for years, but now the state is giving him a hard time...knowing he has changed nothing over the years. Fascinating, when more and more and more vax are being required, that they are all of a sudden cracking down. Tells you where our fight is headed...
Posted by: anon | August 17, 2011 at 08:43 AM
I've been wondering about our own ped. He used to give all shots in his office. Starting last year he asks if you're going over to the clinic to get them. It's more a suggestion rather than a question...This is not a poor area, and we have insurance, as do most of his patients I assume, so why the push to not vax in his office?
He's always allowed parents to not folllow the scedule without too much grief. Last year when I refused the 'kindergarten boosters' for my son he said 'well you would think they could be causing autism, but I've read all the studies and agree they do not'. I just bit my tongue and said I'd think about it.
He's definitely wishy-washy on the subject but don't think I'd ever be able to get him to have a frank discussion about it.
Posted by: TJ | August 17, 2011 at 08:20 AM