Listen In to a Conversation Between Pediatricians on Autism, Vaccines and What To Do
Managing Editor's Note: Ginger Taylor gave us permission to reprint her post on the AAP, autism and her notes from a conversation she overheard at the DAN! conference between pediatricians. Please mark her blog Adventures in Autism in your favorites. Thank you, Ginger.
By Ginger Taylor
On Wednesday, JB Handley wrote a piece for Age of Autism called AAP’s Errol R. Alden, MD: The Worst CEO in America, Looking to Target “Vaccine Opponents” and “Celebrities”. In it, he chastened the leadership of the American Academy of Pediatrics for their vaccine/autism stance and focusing in on the AAP CEO Dr. Errol Alden.
In the comments section of the post, Paul Robinson, Alden's brother in law, responded to Handley, disclosing that he has a child with ASD, and claiming that Handley and Jenny McCarthy's group, Generation Rescue, had sabotaged the relationship between AAP and DAN!, that was burgeoning in 2008, by criticizing AAP too harshly. Handley responded with another post the following day called, "Dr. Errol Alden, CEO of the AAP, has a Nephew with Autism", in which he addresses Robinson's comments.
Handley expresses a sentiment, which I share, that references the difficulty of the idea that victims of malpractice should be deferential to those who have caused life long damage to children, because those public health officials are too sensitive to be criticized for their malpractice.
He then points Robinson back to the actual problem, which is that the American Academy of Pediatrics, under Alden's leadership, is encouraging physicians to commit widespread malpractice, and away from the fake smokescreen problem that the AAP is trying to distract the world with, the fact that parents and minority physicians are complaining about the actual problem.
So now that this is being put out in the open, I think it is appropriate to ask, what happened in 2008? As I am witness to a small piece of the puzzle, I will share what I know here.
I was in attendance at the April 2008 DAN conference in Cherry Hill. The month before, the Polings had announced that Hannah had been paid for her vaccine induced autism, Julie Gerberding had been forced to admit on CNN that vaccines can cause autism in children with mitochondrial dysfunction, Jenny McCarthy had announced the "Green our Vaccines" rally, the AAP had announced that it was going to work with ARI/DAN in treating autism, and Jenny McCarthy went head to head with the AAP on Larry King in an explosive interview.
Two days later, the DAN! conference started. It was jammed with people. During the conference, Misty Hiatt, a mother from Florida, stood up and told the crowd that her daughter Madison had also been paid by the VICP for her vaccine induced encephalopathy/autism. And the AAP had sent a group, lead by Dr. Louis Cooper, one of the inventors of the Rubella vaccine.
It was a charged weekend to say the least. On the last day, I sat in the back of the ballroom and somewhere in the middle of Sid Baker's speech, the fact that what had been done to my child, had been done to my child, washed over me and I started crying. I just sat in the back and cried quietly for an hour or so... happy to be in the back at a table next to the sound board by myself.
As the conference ended, I stayed put and watched Dr. Cooper talk with a woman at the front of the room and Stan Kurtz and a few others, waiting to see if Stan would be alone. I had been introduced to him once and hoped that he would give me a little bit of information on Cooper and the AAP's reaction to the conference. While was waiting, Dr. Cooper walked to the back of the room and took a seat about ten or fifteen feet away from me and waited. After a minute, Dr. Jerry Kartzinel, DAN doc and Jenny McCarthy's co-author, pulled a chair around to face Cooper, sat down and asked what he thought.
As you might imagine, I stayed put, closed the blog post that I had begun writing on my impressions of the conference, opened a clean document and began taking notes on the conversation.
About five minutes later, Stan Kurtz joined them and the three talked openly as the room cleared until it was just the four of us.
Cooper lead most of the conversation, he was on the enthusiastic side about what he had seen and heard. Not ecstatic, but I was encouraged an that he seemed much more into it than I would have expected. I would expect that he would have played it more cool and close to the vest. On the contrary, he seemed to be very honest and speaking freely from the heart.
Kartzinel and Kurtz did more listening than talking. They were both very gentile with him, asked good questions that got to the point of the matter with out being aggressive at all.
These are the notes I took as they talked:
My notes on a conversation overheard between Dr. Jerry Kartzinel DAN! doctor, Dr. Louis Cooper representing the American Academy of Pediatrics and Stan Kurtz, immediately following the DAN! Conference on April 6, 2008
All information is directly from Dr. Louis Z. Cooper unless otherwise noted.
Dr. Cooper came into this when Stan Kurtz called Cooper and Jenny was “raising hell”. It was time to “learn about DAN!… and now the current academy leadership and I are here at DAN!.”
Cooper noted with some surprise that “the doctors in the room are our doctors”, meaning AAP doctors. He expressed concern (for several years now) for the loss of trust from parents. He posed the question, “How do we move this forward and get rid of the appearance of combativeness?”
Dr. Cooper mentioned his Rubella and HIV experience a lot. He was quite rooted in those experiences and might/maybe using that model a little too much.
On his role in the 1964 Rubella epidemic:
He took lab from Belleview with him (to Cold Creek? I am not sure where.)
When he was working on HIV, Jim Olestine called him and said, “We’ve got these kids… we need a pediatrician to look at this.”
Cooper said, “That was the second crisis in my life as far as disease epidemic. This is the third.”
Kartzinel asked Cooper what his recommendations for approaching this should be.
Cooper said, “We need to quickly pull together and have a task force and committee.”
Diagnostic tests, definitions, clear treatment protocols were what worked for Rubella.
“This is a multi system disease, a multisystem syndrome. You guys know that. It also has ethical issues, mental health issues, GI issues, public health issues, epidemiological issues, financial issues, insurance issues…”
Cooper says he will recommend that the AAP make a task force for this.
"What I want to include that’s different is…". (could not hear the end of the sentence)
Drug companies have taken over health and there has been hope that health consumers would take that back. “This group represents the best of that”.
He wants to assemble a group place for exchange of ideas and beliefs that would include academy education programs.
“The tool kit is a great start, but that let’s take it to the next step.”
Kartzinel: “What is that step?” Jerry suggests that, ‘If the leaders in each field say, this is a problem, then it becomes real.’ “If the leaders in the GI field say, “we recognize this as a problem”, that would go so far. Then docs would be free to explore the GI track.”
In reference to the pediatrician who stood up in her community and was ostracized, investigated and left the AAP, and who broke down in tears with Stan, Cooper said that that sort of thing should not be happening. He spoke with compassion toward her.
Kartzinel mentioned the Boston ’06 GI meeting that AS sponsored. It was a very distinguished group. What AAP did was provide AS with (could not hear this part) … “But there was no AAP logo” and no official sanction.
In discussing how to get DAN! theory and practice accepted, Cooper said: “Rubella advancement was accepted because”:
1. Two years after diagnostic test
2. “I was at a prestigious institution”
3. “We had the backing of world leaders”
People who were movers and shakers elite and fashion and entertainment industries opened doors for them, and from them he learned a lot about making things happen.
The term “Developmental Disabilities” was coined by congress because of the efforts of a few powerful men. Harvey Firestone had a child with CP and President of ABC and Kennedy’s sister – they talked congress into the Developmental Disabilities Services Act.
“These were accidents of politics that have impact. HIV had a different story. You have a different story.”
“I’m concerned about immunization policy and how you protect immunization.”
“I chaired a CDC blue ribbon panel for Julie Gerberding. We wrote at report and that report got buried. And then Jenny and the Polings came along, God bless them, they have raised so much hell.”
“You are helping me and what I need to do. It has engaged me at a level that I would not have been engaged in.”
Kartzinel: “How do we move forward?”
Cooper: “You have a body of work that will provide receptors with the academy.”
Jerry then shared the problems they have had with submitting research and told about his rejection from one publication. He explained that they returned it with strange objections, “They said, ‘You had no control group.’ Of course I had no control group, it was a case series, it was written write there.”
Cooper: Did you send to pediatrics?
Kartzinel said no, that he didn’t even try.
Cooper: Send it to pediatrics.
They talked about Wakefield.
Cooper: He came out with speculation about splitting the vaccine with no data, and then his failure to disclose poisoned the well.
“My colleagues have a self righteousness.”
No one does controlled measures when they are making observations.
Kartzinel: Is a fully vaccinated group of children at age 4 as healthy as an unvaccinated group of 4 year olds?
(Up until this point in the conversation, Cooper has been outgoing and engaged. When Kartzinel ask this question, Cooper starts to draw into himself a bit.)
Kartzinel: You can’t start out doing a study of vaccinated v. unvaccinarted children because of the ethical problems, but you can do it in primates.
Jerry then tells him about the vaxed v. unvaxed primate study about to begin.
Cooper: “Is there any reason to give Hep B vaccine at birth”? (said as if he is seriously questioning why we are doing it.)
Kartzinel: University of Pittsburgh veterinarian, phase two will be done in Seattle.
Here Cooper raised some question which Kartzinel takes to mean that he is worried about cost, and said that the study is already fully funded and that people are already in place for the study.
Kartzinel didn’t outright invite him to be a part of the study, but left the door open for Cooper to say he wanted AAP involvement. Cooper didn’t bite and was trying to get away from the study idea. Obviously hit a nerve and was outside of his comfort zone.
Cooper: “The public trust has been my major preoccupation in the last few years”. (Cold Spring outlined the problem and made some recommendations?)
One was to work on communication strategies – for pediatricians not be demeaning. Another was a large investment in the safety of vaccines, “not trying to cover up”.
Stan: what do we do from here… what are the objectives?
Cooper: “I want to reflect on in it. I will try to make this attractive to a cross disciplinary task force.”
No single individual should represent the academy.
“That’s how I won rubella. I learned pediatrics.”
Stan: “Parents here have learned pediatrics.”
Amazing to know this conversation took place, isn’t it?
At this point, hotel staff came in and began stacking the chairs so we all moved out of the ballroom. Kurtz, Kartzinel and Cooper walked off together and I hopped into a cab to the train station. On the way home I wrote this cautiously optimistic post: The American Academy of Pediatrics Shows Up in Autism Treatment
I wrote that “it was my understanding that AAP thought…” and never hinted at all that I had heard, because I didn’t want to carpet bomb the delicate process that was underway between AAP and DAN/Team Jenny. What I did do was offer AAP guidelines on how they could use this window of opportunity to end the madness and the war with parents, by eating a little crow, apologizing for the bad behavior and partnering with parents.
I noted that those parents were going to be showing up in DC in just two months, and if AAP was not on board by the time of the Green Our Vaccines rally, then their actions would be seen as empty gestures and public relations maneuvers; and that window would begin to slam shut pretty quickly.
And sadly, that is what happened. AAP did not show up, they merely sent TACA their ‘autism took kit’, which of course is a joke, because TACA is itself an ‘autism encyclopedia’ and should be writing AAP’s literature for them. They again treated us like the red headed step child, the divide between our community and AAP got wider and for all their money and power, AAP has continued to loose the “autism war” to a bunch of broke, stressed out, “Justamoms”, who daily, fearlessly, continue to speak truth to power.
But AAP still does not get that they are in the wrong, and are still under the delusion that if they just find someone with perkier boobs than Jenny McCarthy to become a vaccine cheerleader, then they can turn this thing around. Their tactics keep failing, yet they keep trying the same failing tactics over and over… “this time it’ll work”, they must be saying to each other in their offices… “..because this time we will have FOCUS GROUPS!”
They do not get it.
Rather than stopping the runaway train, they have just increased their speed as they head toward the edge of the cliff… unalarmed by the increasing numbers of parents and physicians quietly disembarking the crazy train.
There is none so blind as those that will not see.
So this brings up a lot of questions.
First off… if AAP was earnest, why would they send the man who invented the Rubella vaccine to present an evaluation on whether or not “his baby” was now giving children brain damage? It was clear when vaccine issues came up that Cooper became uncomfortable, but to his credit, he seemed genuinely impressed with biomed treatment and that he wanted to move forward on it. Did AAP expect him to dismiss all of DAN?
I am convinced that Cooper was earnest in what he said to Kurtz and Kartzinel. Did he make the recommendation to set up a task force to AAP? My BS meter had been pretty finely tuned at that point, and when he talked about treatment, he was sincere as far as I could tell. Unless he is one of those guys that really means it at the time, but really believes something else when he is with a crowd of another persuasion? So if he made these recommendations to the AAP, what happened? Did AAP blow them off? Did Tayloe and Alden put the kibosh on it?
What happened to, “Diagnostic tests, definitions, clear treatment protocols”?
Cooper said, “disease epidemic”. Why won’t AAP say it?
Cooper said that AAP wanted people weaning off Pharma and being good health consumers. And that we represented the best of that. So why are we being demonized? Did doctors want that, until they got it, and then discovered they didn’t like being challenged?
Didn’t AAP want to see the results of the primate study? Or did they use this as a heads up to bury it?
Here’s a biggie: WHAT WAS THE BLUE RIBBON PANEL THAT COOPER CHAIRED FOR GERBERDING, WHOSE RESULTS GOT BURIED? WHY DID HE NOT UNBURY THEM AND USE THEM?
Here is an easy one, “How do we move this forward and get rid of the appearance of combativeness?” I don’t know… stop being combative? Seems like its worth a try.
What were the other reports from the other docs who visited the conference?
And here is the most obvious one. If public trust is so important to the AAP, why are they lying to the public? Why are they crapping on their customers? What exactly do they think will happen if they treat parents with dismissals, insults and really bad PR?
Paul Robinson wrote this:
“Things were proceeding quite well when suddenly Stan had to leave DAN and then he joined G.R. Jenny's continual national attacks brought so much heat on Errol from the AAP's constituency that he had to back away from the whole process. G.R.'s belligerence ruined a very likely alliance and who suffers? the kids! Nice work G.R.!”
If AAP was working with DAN/ARI, then why didn't they just continue working with DAN/ARI? Who the hell cares what Jenny McCarthy was doing? If Stan ran naked through an AAP meeting and Jenny threatened to burn down Chicago just to spite the AAP, who the @#&$% cares!? Either these treatments heal our children or they don’t! Robinson’s argument seems to be that it is OK for physicians to throw children under a bus (and that phrase is only BARELY used figuratively here) if they are offended by a shock/comic actress and a guy who owns a preschool?
I don’t want to completely trash Robinson here, because he seems like he has come part of the way on this (although JB is right, IMHO he should have, and still should, throw down the gauntlet with his brother in law), but Robinson does not seem to understand that he is making the case for us on how corrupt the AAP is. If they don’t like how a few people act, they are allowed to commit malpractice on yours, mine and every child with autism in this country? And say that Generation Rescue made them do it!
And the AAP is shocked when parents are pissed at them? (It takes all my self control not to continue on in a stream of expletives at this point.)
Jerry Kartzinel could not be a nicer, more professional doctor, and he is very widely respected. If they didn’t like Stan any more, they couldn’t call Jerry? Or Lyn Redwood who was on the IACC? Or Jane Johnson at ARI? Or anyone one of the hundreds of really boring, zero drama, non-comic actresses that daily serve children with autism?
Exactly what is the mean age of an AAP member? 15?
If Generation Rescue insults Pakistan, does that mean they are then allowed to nuke India? I need to get a read on just how far the McCarthy defense goes.
I will end the way I have been ending these posts for years. By asking AAP/CDC et. al. WHAT IS YOUR PLAN? How long are you going to drag this out? How far do vaccine rates have to drop, how bad does your reputation have to get? What is “bottom” for you? What is your plan here?
Wise pediatricians… rise up and take back your profession. If not you… then who? If not now, then when? How man thousands of sick children are you willing to watch fall just to keep your job or your seat at the table or your invite to the party?
You are the grown ups… take back the steering wheel.
Ginger Taylor runs Adventures in Autism.
Ginger - Don't worry about it.
The truth is the truth, and the more people that know the truth is always for the best!
Posted by: Benedetta | November 11, 2010 at 07:40 PM
Ginger Taylor - Sunlight is the best disinfectant. Without full disclosure, nothing will ever change. Thank you for this post.
“AMA to Docs: Be Careful About What You Post Online” by Emily P. Walker, Washington Correspondent, MedPage Today on November 9, 2010.
http://www.medpagetoday.com/tbprint.cfm?tbid=23253
The disclaimer at the end of this little "gem" of an article is of interest. UPENN! Who would ever have thought? The paradigm of morality, ethics, and virtue for physicians.
Posted by: patrons99 | November 11, 2010 at 02:52 PM
"Of course they monitor this blog to make their job easier in determining what their next move is and who next to cut off at the knees to the extent that they can. It is my opinion that they should not be assisted in doing this."
Understood, but you should also note, that with all of their $$ and influence, and all our powerlessness, that they are loosing this war to us.
With all their deception and dirty tricks, and all our transparency, they are loosing this war to us.
And that is because we have the truth on our side. Parents hear stories like this, realize that even when people who are SO well entrenched in their system, like Lou Cooper, who see that what we are doing works and tells that to AAP, they STILL don't change course.
AAP knows... and they do not care. They just don't. AAP is in it for AAP, not your child your family or any children with autism.
Our transparency and our lack of fear about speaking up is our strength. We don't have anything to hide.
And what is it that you fear will be done with this information by those who have gone to war against us? Are they going to "Wakefield" Lou Cooper? No. The man invented the Rubella vaccine.
And if they do... just how many docs do you think they can try to destroy before their ranks rebel because they know they are next?
This is not England. They are working as hard as they can to control information, but it does not work here like it does, "over there". And even when they win most of the battles, they STILL loose the war.
Best that they can do with this information is to ignore it. Just like they ignore all our websites and books and conferences and seminars and on and on and on.
The assaults they launch on us, because they are so transparent and lacking in substance, only serve to give their gallery something to believe it, but the public is not fooled.
Posted by: Ginger Taylor | November 11, 2010 at 10:33 AM
Hi RFH. The author of the piece in question here...
"Meaning that, If an "insider" expresses what needs to be done in order to be able to make progress...that is something that was likely said in confidence so that it could be implemented to the extent possible. While it may initially feel good to expose such statements, what is the overall effect?When opposing parties read it, they will shut down the author of such statements....what is then gained by exposing this?"
I understand your concerns and in fact, completely agree with them.
Which is why I didn't write this piece two and a half years ago when I heard the conversation. I wrote a piece that drew on the conversation, but didn't even hint at specifics that might upset the process of AAP coming around.
But that was two and a half years ago. With in six months it was clear that AAP was abandoning the prospect of partnership and had decoded to try to turn and tear us to pieces. I didn't even write about it then.
So now is the right time to do this. What is gained is that it shows that AAP had EVERY chance to do the right thing. It had a man who came to them and said, "time to change" and they refused. It exposes that they are working in bad faith with families and that they are willingly and knowingly covering up treatments that improve the lives of health of children with autism.
I know you want to hope that AAP is just about to do the right thing... that any minute now they were going have enough evidence to begin training DAN docs themselves and pour millions into research to suss out what treatments work for which kids.
We all wanted to believe that in 2008.
But if it didn't happen then, it sure as hell is not going to happen now. And it is time that they be held accountable. Parents need to start walking away from the AAP docs, who are taking their cues from a corrupt organization. Pediatricians need to start resigning from AAP. AAP needs to fold now.
AAP is Enron. Alden is Ken Lay. Tayloe is Madoff. AAP is no more ready to issue a mia culpa than "the smartest guys in the room" were. They had to be investigated, arrested and put on trial to get the truth.
AAP is committing fraud and medical malpractice, and encouraging every pediatrician in the country to do so.
I really get where you are coming from... and in 2000 your approach would be right on the nose... but they have willingly decided that malpractice and widespread neurological and autoimmune disease in our nations children is preferable to them being held accountable for their wrongdoing.
Allowing them to continue to do that in private will do nothing but make more children sick.
AAP had made their choice.
Posted by: Ginger Taylor | November 11, 2010 at 10:12 AM
WILLIE - your idea for screening marketed vaccines has merit. The FDA is completely conflicted. FDA acts in concert with pharma. They cannot deny the revolving door policy between pharma and FDA. Ditto WHO and CDC. We might well consider privatizing certain functions of FDA which have long been taken for granted by the public. Your suggestion of screening our own vaccines for “ingredients”, adjuvants, adulterants, additives, contaminants, and recombinants is a VERY good one. A case in point is found in the recent fortuitous “discovery” of pig virus DNA in two different rotavirus vaccines.
There’s is now ample evidence of harm, chain of causation, and proximate cause:
Simpsonwood transcript - vaccine placebo fraud (thimerosal and aluminum adjuvants in placebo arms) - fraudulent package inserts - fraudulent informed consent. When all else fails, simply use a mandate. Why bother with an “informed” consent? Someone might actually read the package inserts and “smell a rat”.
We CAN do this! We’ve got a road map. Set up privately funded analytical labs and simply do the research. Each vaccine package insert should be scrutinized. There is a paper trail which cannot be hidden.
A Snake In The "GRAS" Or Snake People visit The "Baghdad Bob" School of Vaccine Research
http://kerboblog.blogspot.com/2008/10/snake-in-gras.html
“Placebo fraud rocks the very foundation of modern medical science; thousands of clinical trials invalidated” by Mike Adams on October 28, 2010.
http://www.naturalnews.com/z030209_placebo_medical_fraud.html
http://www.annals.org/content/153/8/532.abstract
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfH_DOrmpkA
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/07/28/What-are-the-Dangers-of-Mandatory-Swine-Flu-Vaccination.aspx
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/11/lies-damned-lies-and-medical-science/8269/
Posted by: patrons99 | November 10, 2010 at 07:22 AM
Thank you for the link, Michael Framson. What a cluster****. I wonder how bad it has to get before it gets better...
Posted by: Theresa O | November 08, 2010 at 08:52 PM
We as a family decided to seek medical help outside of the AAP about 6 years ago. We just got tired of having to explain our firm objection to vaccinating our children, due to the horrific side effects they had. One of our children is autistic, and became so suddenly after his 12 month shots. It was a drastic difference and we do not want any more damage. So, rather than fight with the AAP pediatrician, we picked up our records and went to a nice, caring family physician practice, who respects our decision. We haven't had any regrets and no more angst about the doctor visit either. You too can do the same. If more people abandon the Pediatrician, then they will get the message. Hit 'em where it hurts...the pocket book.
Posted by: Nick'smom | November 08, 2010 at 07:23 PM
Willie;
That is very interesting!
My mother-in-law and her three sisters always had warts.
They lived in Southern California near the orange groves as well as thier father maintained a very large rose garden (took up the whole back yard)
My daughter has had a couple of warts for years that she cannot get rid of! At one time as a teen ager her both of her feet became covered with warts. The Dermotologist was going to burn them off a few at a time (there were so many - though) but they were all gone in a week.
So what would be in the vaccines/pesticides
to weaken the immune system. Esp the vaccine since it is suppose to --- well not weaken the immune system
Posted by: Benedetta | November 08, 2010 at 06:11 PM
VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM
We are at the point now where we have to open up our own labs and start doing DNA sequencing of vaccines to find out what is really in them, we have to look at our childrens blood and determine what makes them vulnerable to the viruses which CD4 and CD8 protien combinations are lacking in which children. Clearly there is a set of protien differences that causes the same manifestations of this disease to occur over and over to varying degrees.
The AAP is a front for drug dealers and they will not investigate themselves. All of this talk is useless we have to get started now and we should organize and do it. It cannot be that hard.
Come on people we can do this. I will take the lead and tell you all what we need to do to start a lab and start investigating what has hurt our children and families
VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM
Posted by: WILLIE | November 08, 2010 at 11:56 AM
VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM
“I speak for your children because I understand where they're coming from. I understand their issues because I too am on the spectrum. I can get into their psyche far more than any neurotypical can.”
Aspie you do not speak for anybody on this blog except yourself and your employer because you speak in terms of denial of the crimes by the pharmaceutical industry, and these are crimes of the highest order, and the resignation and acceptance by the victims (the children and their families) to their plight. If people were to follow your lead there would be no TACA or AOA no Generation Rescue.
Aspie your are simply a disengenuine relatively inexpensive courtesan, a camp follower if you will, performing your duties, poorly and transparently I might add.
Stop the denying of the Autism crime because we will not stop calling autism and the vaccines that cause it a crime and the people doing it and covering it up criminals.
VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM
Posted by: WILLIE | November 08, 2010 at 12:35 AM
VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM
Aspie said
“I support neurodiversity because it means a comparatively easier life for people like me. It leads to less discrimination and more acceptance.”
Neurodiversity you say? So if I amputate your legs you will be mobile diverse is that right? Blind you in both eyes you are visual diverse? Puncture you eardrums and make you deaf and you are auditory diverse? This will then lead to less discrimination and you will be accepted for some kind of disfigured freak, is this your position Aspie?
You want our children to be accepted for their differences like they were born black or white. I can safely tell you Aspie we are not looking for this iatrogenic hell foist upon us we want out now and the people held responsible including their lackeys like yourself held responsible for their crimes
VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM
Posted by: WILLIE | November 08, 2010 at 12:29 AM
VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM
I try not to make these post too long so I will do it in sections and post them. The long post, even when really good can sometimes turn readers off( by the way most of you write really well and informative, inspiring and even funny post) I proudly say as a physician, to all of my patients and strangers that I meet with children and tell not vaccinate under any condition, and I tell them that every day, that you are very well informed parents and the web site is awesome for everything.
Patron my friend you are starting to convince me that you have really got a hold of this thing in its proper perspective. This is a crime plain and simple and you see it from the medical standpoint as do I and that is different from just the parental standpoint, which is devastating, as you clearly understand the full flavor of what has transpired.
Conflicts of interest, the selling off of children and their families for profit for God knows what,(these people are truly Godless) knowingly hurting patients, which is unfathomable for most practitioners yet pediatricians and others not only do it but defend the practice but decry anyone that balks at it. Hiring people to come on blogs to influence the thoughts and practices of others and to further hide and perpetuate crime.
Patron 99 Keep fighting the good fight my friend.
VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM
Posted by: WILLIE | November 08, 2010 at 12:14 AM
If Lou Cooper has the courage of any professed convictions, he would very publicly rebuke the AAP for their disgraceful conduct and resign any affiliation with that pathetic organization. If we wants to help kids, join a DAN team.
The Blue Ribbon Panel referenced in Ginger's article can be read about here http://www.nvic.org/Downloads/Atlanta_Manifesto_Safety.aspx
On September 10, 2004, a report co-authored by Mark Blaxill and Barbara
Loe Fisher entitled “From Safety Last to Children First: A White Paper on
Vaccine Safety” was submitted to Julie Gerberding, M.D., Director, Centers
for Disease Control. The report was written in dissent to the official
summary of the June 3-4, 2004 deliberations of a Blue Ribbon Panel on
Vaccine Safety, whose members were appointed by Dr. Gerberding to
discuss critical vaccine safety concerns being discussed in public forums.
The Centers for Disease Control has never formally responded to Blaxil
and Fisher’s report and it was not made part of a published summary of the
June 3-4, 2004 meeting in Atlanta.
In November 2007, the Age of Autism, founded by Dan Olmsted and Mark
Blaxill, published this report in eight installments under the title “The
Atlanta Manifesto” with special introductions written by Blaxill and Fisher
at www.ageofautism.com
Faced with this fairly obvious, but threatening point, the Blue Ribbon Panel was
the judo move. The CDC called together a bunch of their close friends and asked
them to discuss what to do about vaccine safety. Realizing that Congressional
oversight wouldn’t let THEM get away with a panel consisting solely of insiders,
they invited a few token outsiders. Barbara Loe Fisher, who has long played a
lonely role as the nation’s conscience on vaccine safety was invited, as well as
some autism organization representatives: Peter Bell from Cure Autism Now and
Rob Beck from the Autism Society of America. As Lou Cooper explained, the role
of the panel was to offer “a reflection of our individual and collective wisdom”, not
to make recommendations. Lou Cooper would take charge of writing up these
“reflections.” Under the cover of this relatively friendly document (in case anyone
from Congress asked), and after it was all over, the CDC would go ahead and do
whatever it wanted to do in the first place
Posted by: michael framson | November 07, 2010 at 11:44 PM
Sorry about the link not working. (new iPad)
Just type in, parents mount backlash to increased vaccines, Nov 6, the star.com
Posted by: Jen | November 07, 2010 at 08:26 PM
Check it out (backlash against increasing# of vaccines):
www.thestar.com/mobile/NEWS/article/886973
Posted by: Jen | November 07, 2010 at 07:50 PM
I'm just so puzzled by the comment from rhetoricforhire. Do you mean to say that the AAP is secretly working on a plan to end autism, and now that Ginger Taylor has spilled the beans, the AAP will be forced to abandon the plan because it's no longer secret? That's almost as implausible (or if true, reprehensible) as the "Jenny yelled at me in public, so I had to stop helping" argument. Either some DAN! treatments are helping kids on the spectrum, or they're not. The AAP should be working to put genuinely helpful resources in the hands of its members, and it shouldn't need (a) secrecy or (b) a media blackout from Jenny McCarthy to do it.
If what you're saying (about an "insider" expressing views on what needs to be done to "make progress") is that Dr. Cooper was telling a secret to Stan Kurtz and Dr. Kartzinel, and that now that everyone (including the AAP and CDC brass) can read it on the internet, Dr. Cooper won't be able to work his secret magic at the AAP, then I really doubt that he would ever have been able to work that magic, anyway. If the AAP helping kids depends on it being done in some secret way that will save face for the AAP, then it's never going to happen. Daylight never hurt anything. On the contrary, the truth getting out is the only way that real progress will ever be made.
Posted by: Theresa O | November 07, 2010 at 05:32 PM
rhetoricforhire said, "While it may initially feel good to expose such statements, what is the overall effect? When opposing parties read it, they will shut down the author of such statements....what is then gained by exposing this?" Thing is, it's been over two years since this conversation. Has anything changed? No. Is the AAP having an ongoing dialogue with DAN!? No. So what is there to be lost by exposing this? Apparently, nothing. For how many years have parents been reporting their children's vaccine injuries, asking the government for help, asking the AAP for help? For how many decades should we be patient and nice, and too polite to post a private conversation (private but regarding public professional matters, not personal) on the internet? For how many decades should we wait while supposedly some kind of top secret resolution of vaccine-autism issues might be occurring, which we should accept with blind faith and leave in the hands of the "experts" and tiptoe so as not to disrupt it?
Posted by: Twyla | November 07, 2010 at 05:27 PM
@ any AAP members reading this -
polliwog said it best - "Take a moment and imagine you are standing at the pearly gates. What conversation will God have with you regarding your actions or nonactions and this epidemic? Stop the maddness."
It's getting late for picking a side in this debate. You cannot straddle the fence on this topic, just waiting to see which way the wind blows. There is an undeniable epidemic of vaccine-induced diseases. It's become a holocaust! Thus far, the epidemic is the biggest crime of the 21st century. The AAP has blood on its hands...lot's of it. The AAP, WHO, and CDC bear substantial responsibility for this public health catastrophe.
Using "FAAP" after your name has become a detestable moniker. You had best distance yourselves from it. Your inaction implies complicity. Rejoin the public that you promised to serve. The AAP abandoned its mission statement long ago. The AAP is responsible for promotion of the vaccine schedules and vaccine mandates.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/2887572/Simpsonwood-Transcript20Searchable
These are crimes against humanity. Where do your interests lie? Disclose your COIs, if any. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
Posted by: patrons99 | November 07, 2010 at 05:20 PM
Aspie said, "I also want to make the point that although vaccines can lead to autism symptoms in a minority of cases, the majority of autistic people have a different neurology from birth."
I then pointed out how early vaccines start (on day of birth or at two months of age) and Aspie replied, "Twyla, I was born years before the hepatitis B vaccine was even invented. Try again."
Um, Aspie, are you "the majority of autistic people"? Or are you one person?
I have no idea when you began receiving vaccines (if any), or what prenatal toxic exposures you may have suffered (if any). Maybe you have a purely genetic form of autism, I don't know. I don't believe that ALL autism is caused by vaccines.
But most of today's younger generation has been exposed to a lot of vaccines, often beginning on the date of birth, or at two months, or sometimes with the mom's vaccines or rhogam injections while pregnant. So I'm just saying that showing signs of autism from infancy does not prove that vaccines did not play a role.
Posted by: Twyla | November 07, 2010 at 05:13 PM
Aspie: If you are an aspie then my son is an autie. The fact that you are capable of speaking tells me you do not speak for him.
Posted by: 4Bobby | November 07, 2010 at 04:10 PM
Re: Post by Virginia:
"The AAP (American Academy of Pediatrics) leadership knows very well that vaccines cause autism. We need not waste anymore efforts in trying to educate them. We need to INDICT them. They may be morally bankrupt, but they are not stupid. They have lied to legistators, they have lied to journalists, they have lied to pediatricians and worst of all, they have lied to you and your children."
David Ayoub MD, 'Mercury, Autism and the Global Vaccine Agenda
THIS SAYS IT ALL.
Posted by: Autism Grandma | November 07, 2010 at 03:59 PM
Thank you Carolyn. I do get so tired of "Aspies", a term I believe that was coined by Lianne Holiday Willey in her book "Pretending to be Normal: Living With Asperger's Syndrome" in 1999 after her self-diagnosis. How many others took her lead, diagnosed themselves, and then appointed themselves as spokespersons for everyone on the spectrum?
I should have mentioned gastrointestinal problems, immune system issues, mitochondrial dysfunction... and epilepsy. We're talking about serious medical issues that the AAP ought to be addressing, not a personality type.
Posted by: ATSC | November 07, 2010 at 02:26 PM
Aspie,
ATSC has said most of what I was going to say (and said it very well). I would add this: You also cannot "speak for" those children with autism who not only have regressive autism, but who also have serious gastrointestinal problems, immune system issues, and mitochondrial dysfunction. You do not "share" this "condition" (if I remember the phrasing you used in a previous comment correctly).
You do not understand my daughter better than I do, so please refrain from making such blanket generalizations.
Posted by: Carolyn M | November 07, 2010 at 01:41 PM
To Aspie: Your original comments have seemed to distract greatly from the original article. Maybe you can clearly describe for the rest of us your thoughts on the lack of involvement of the AAP in solving the medical problems of children with ASD and what you think may have happened to the information buried from the blue ribbon committee mentioned in the conversation that was overheard. Or maybe your goal is to distract people from this very important topic.
Also, as a person with Asperger's (on the functional end of the spectrum) your insight on whether your health has always been static, or was it bad or did it improve over time would be valuable. Did your parents try any interventions with you and if so, what were they? What works, what doesn't work, for you. As an adult, are you happy with your life? Are you a productive member of society, i.e., can you work and support yourself, and if yes, in what type of career? I'm sure the parents here would benefit from anything that can supply in the way of direction and hope from you. Also, since many children are born with ASD symptoms and others suffer from a regression, and you believe you were born this way, what can you tell us about your parents and grandparents and what environmental risk factors they might have been exposed to that may have affected your mother's pregnancy with you. Do any of them have autoimmune disorders, have they had mercury or heavy metal exposures, maybe work in a field involving pesticides? Did your mom get a rhogam shot while she carried you? How about the tetanus shot? Is your dad in the military and had to get lots and lots of shots previous to having you? Did your mom have a natural childbirth or did she get pitocin and/or an epidural? How heavy was her toxic load, did she eat organically or have a standard western diet which promotes inflammatory and autoimmune diseases? Is there any history of lyme disease, ALS, MS, Parkinsons, etc. Have you yourself been tested for yeast overload, leaky gut issues, food allergies or sensitivities, metabolic or mitochondrial issues. Your history, your family's history, and how your life has evolved I'm sure would be so insightful. This would be a great opportunity to share.
Posted by: Jenny | November 07, 2010 at 01:34 PM
Patrons99,
you said, "rhetoricforhire - please be a little more specific. Are you suggesting that rather than a free press and forum for exchange of ideas and information, that we need to form a "secret society" to pursue various hypotheses in private? btw - do you have any disclosures that you might wish to make? serious question."
1. Specific? Well, okay but sadly that rather defeats my whole point, doesnt it? IF Lou Cooper is sincere, in this debate, he is likely walking a tightrope and is aware, at least in his position, what can and cannot happen and how. Getting information as to the how would be a good thing for change. Keep in mind however, that this blog is not only used as a source of information for those who just want to know what they will never hear in mainstream media, it is equally used as a main source of information for those who would oppose anything moving forward with respect to environmental causes of autism. For example, one so called, non-profit corporation actually has in their mission statement that they will NOT look at vaccines as they relate to autism. Of course they monitor this blog to make their job easier in determining what their next move is and who next to cut off at the knees to the extent that they can. It is my opinion that they should not be assisted in doing this.
Is this blog about free press? In otherwords, is that the motive behind this site? If so, I stand corrected and apologize for thinking that there was rather, a bias, similar to say, a democratic versus republican view, if you will. I was under the impression that not all opinions or thoughts are freely expressed here in an effort to actually get to a side that rarely sees the light of day in mainstream media? As can be seen by observing some other sites comments, this blog would quickly be swarmed by those who clearly have no life or are being paid to send out a scripted rhetorical message.
Secret society? That is not the name I would use in any case and it would depend on the specific subject matter to which you are referring. However, I am sure you are aware that in "war" or even a poker game, one does not give away their positions or hand or they will likely lose the game (war). Imagine the old KGB writing on an open facebook page that they suspect their agent, "John Doe" may be a double agent?
Disclosure? I am not sure what you, patrons99 mean by this? Can you explain/disclose what you mean?
Posted by: rhetoricforhire | November 07, 2010 at 01:33 PM
"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." ~ John F. Kennedy, 35th president of US 1961-1963 (1917 - 1963)
Promotion by pharma and the orthodox medical establishment of the myths of vaccine-induced "herd immunity" and "vaccine-preventable" diseases allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
Posted by: patrons99 | November 07, 2010 at 01:20 PM
Aspie said:
"I was never a "normal" baby who regressed after vaccination. I always disliked eye contact, hated it when most people held me, and had obsessive repetititve behaviors. I walked, talked, and toilet trained on time but always displayed autistic behavior." And, "I speak for your children because I understand where they're coming from. I understand their issues because I too am on the spectrum. I can get into their psyche far more than any neurotypical can."
How can you take it upon yourself to speak on behalf of children with regressive autism? How can you speak for children who once had good eye contact, enjoyed being held by their parents, and played normally. For children who talked on time and lost the ability to speak, and children who lost the ability to use the toilet? For children in elementary and high school who are not frequently sharing their thoughts with adults or academically ahead as you were, and who are incapable of having long conversations about history or politics as you did? For children with learning disabilities in special needs classes or schools, who face a lifetime in residential care and menial work in sheltered workshops, and how can you speak for the adults who are already there? They didn't reach adolescence before someone noticed that there was something amiss and they might have attention deficit, and later get an Aspie diagnosis.
Children with regressive autism are in a different ASD subgroup to you, so are children with Autistic Disorder. You can't speak for them.
Posted by: ATSC | November 07, 2010 at 12:42 PM
rhetoricforhire - please be a little more specific. Are you suggesting that rather than a free press and forum for exchange of ideas and information, that we need to form a "secret society" to pursue various hypotheses in private? btw - do you have any disclosures that you might wish to make? serious question.
Posted by: patrons99 | November 07, 2010 at 11:35 AM
This comment will not be popular but it is important. When people with differing opinions are having a conversation that they believe, for the most part, is private, they often have more willingness to express an opinion or statement that would otherwise be left unsaid because of the "flack" they might receive should the wrong people hear it.
If, however, every comment a person makes is fair game for the whole world to hear...I dare say that there will be far fewer comments given freely. Fewer comments equals fewer clues as to how to implement a change from the status quo.
Meaning that, If an "insider" expresses what needs to be done in order to be able to make progress...that is something that was likely said in confidence so that it could be implemented to the extent possible. While it may initially feel good to expose such statements, what is the overall effect? When opposing parties read it, they will shut down the author of such statements....what is then gained by exposing this? Another person has learned that nothing is confidential and they will likely not make such a mistake again. This is why we have politicians who never really say anything...
While anger is justified with all that is happening...it is never good to shoot ourselves in the foot. Offering up too much information that the other party is currently relying on to implement their overall plan (shut down the opposition) is doing nothing for the idea of change.
Posted by: rhetoricforhire | November 07, 2010 at 11:13 AM
Is the health of the unvaccinated at risk from the vaccinated? If vaccine-induced herd suseptibility to diseases is stronger than natural God-given herd-immunity to diseases, it may not be enough to simply resist vaccine mandates.
Those of us who don't vaccinate don't want to force our views on anyone - we just want to be left alone without being accused of spreading disease or FORCED to receive vaccinations.
But what if the vaccinated population is making the unvaccinated population more suseptible to diseases? Is it then sufficient to just want to be left alone? What if the vaccinated population is speading disease?
Look at the 4 pie charts on pages 18-21 of Dr Obomsawin’s compilation of vaccine graphs.
http://www.theoneclickgroup.co.uk/documents/vaccines/Immunization%20Graphs%20PPT%20-%20RO%202009.pdf
There needs to be a third arm in any vaccinated versus unvaccinated study in humans. That is, there needs to be an arm with natural God-given immunity only, treated with high dose D3, C, B12, glutathione precursors, and colloidal silver. Thus, a potential prospective study design would be: study subjects randomized to one of three groups: (a) full vaccine schedule, (b) placebo, ( c) natural only. The real ethical hurdle lies with justifying randomization into group a. So, alternatively, a prospective unblinded cohort study could be considered, wherein volunteer study subjects choose which group to enter.
Posted by: patrons99 | November 07, 2010 at 09:55 AM
I am sorry Aspie that I was so sharp with you last night.
I apologize!
Posted by: Benedetta | November 07, 2010 at 09:27 AM
Aspie, No doubt you can speak for yourself and some of those like yourself will agree with you. But it seems clear that till now you have not seen those unforgettable faces of the suffering autistic kids whose brains are tormenting them- faces of anguish and misery that are never ever seen on a normal child (I know because I have run a nursery school for 38 years). Anguish that no parent can soothe; anguish that has little relief because these kids often cannot sleep and if they sleep they suffer night terrors- which are very different and worse than nightmares. Please see these children and listen to the parents stories. With your experience, you could be so helpful to those less fortunate than yourself
To all those viewing Age of Autism, I would like to say that I feel that the true suffering of autism is rarely conveyed in the media. Even the You -tube videos often give the appearance that the cute little autistic child is not so badly off. At last, after so many years, Safeminds has finally made a video with a very brief view of a suffering autistic child rather than a cute one. We need support from the public but how shall we get it when many people think that autism is something that may be due to watching too much T.V.? After all its psychological isnt it??? My own daughter is a neonatologist, but I doubt very much that she has ever seen a suffering autistic child.Im old enough to recall the photos that came out in the media at the time of the Thalidomide disaster; It was horrifying to look at those little children without limbs. What can we do to make people realize the reality of autism?
And this takes me to another topic- Doctors are probably just getting used to the new normal. I discovered that when my daughter was studying in Chicago, she thought that it was quite usual for kids to have cancer. Why not? She goes in the hospital and sees a lot of kids with cancer- So that must be how things are. That is what she expressed to me. I dont think like that because I recall reading John Gunther's book about his son dying of brain cancer more than 50 years ago. In those days it seemed so unthinkable that a child could have a cancer. So if doctors today , used to seeing kids with asthma, allergies and diabetes dont bat an eye, can you blame them? This is the situation- What are the answers?
Posted by: Cherry Sperlin Misra | November 07, 2010 at 08:52 AM
Aspie - I respect you have an opinion. We all do. It's considered rude to tell someone else their opinion is wrong because it differs from yours. It is possible to give your opinion and let others hear it without throwing out other comments that sound like facts, such as "speaking for our children". Some of our children speak. My son is able to tell me when he's not feeling well. I help him get better. His speech and cognition declines with pain, digestive issues and lack of DAN! protocol. It improves when he is following DAN!. Many of our children show improvement. I accept him as-is and love him, and if he had cancer you would expect me to do everything possible to get him to his best health.
Please understand this - when we became parents, there's a new, fierce, primal warrior instinct that awakens. I didn't have this before children. We've done the research and have found heavy metals (and GM foods) are the causes of the damage done to our children. Treating for heavy metal toxicity is improving their health and bring more function. The warriors in us are awakened and we will continue to fight for all children, including healthy ones that are not sick yet, future children and maybe someday your children.
Thank you for reading this.
Posted by: Deb in IL | November 07, 2010 at 08:31 AM
More food for thought:
"In 1976, Dr. Jonas Salk, the developer of the killed-virus vaccine testified that the live virus vaccine was “the principal if not the sole” cause of polio in the U.S. since 1961"
Washington Post 9/ 24/76
"We were taught that antibodies means protection against disease. When AIDS started, the antibodies meant instead of being protected you were doomed. Suddenly people had to change their concept. You can be loaded with antibodies and still get the disease you may have no antibodies and not catch the disease, so this concept to antibodies we were taught as students was wrong."
Archie Kalokerinos MD, PhD, AMM, MBBS, FAPM, Documentary, 'Vaccination: The Hidden Truth'
Posted by: Virginia | November 07, 2010 at 07:52 AM
Food for thought for Aspie, or anyone else that thinks vaccines have helped anyone:
"Official data shows that large scale vaccination has failed to obtain any significant improvement of the diseases against which they were supposed to provide protection."
Dr. Albert Sabin, Developer of the Oral Polio vaccine
Posted by: Virginia | November 07, 2010 at 07:49 AM
Vaccines & Autism
"When I first heard there was a link between vaccines and autism I thought that was silly. Really, I tended to dismiss it just on the superficial kind of reading that was in the newspapers...The more you delve into it... what I came away with is a question that has not been answered... I don't think you should ever turn your back on a hypothesis because you're afraid of what it might show."
Dr. Bernadine Heely, former Director, National Institute of Health, 5/12/08, CBS (Dr. Heely received a lot of heat for simply suggesting there is a need to look closer at the issues)
"Let me, or anyone else suggest that excessive vaccination can increase the risk of not only autism but also schizophrenia and neurodegenerative diseases, and they will scream like banshees – Where is the evidence? Where is the evidence? When we produce study after study, they always claim them to be insufficient evidence or unacceptable studies. More often they completely ignore the evidence. This is despite the fact that we produce dozens of studies that not only demonstrate the link clinically and scientifically, but also clearly show the mechanism by which the damage is being done – even on a molecular level. These studies include cell cultures, mixed cell cultures, organotypic tissue studies, in vivo animal studies using multiple species and even human studies. To the defenders of vaccines – our evidence is never sufficient and if we face reality, never will be."
Russell Blaylock MD, Neurosurgeon
"The AAP (American Academy of Pediatrics) leadership knows very well that vaccines cause autism. We need not waste anymore efforts in trying to educate them. We need to INDICT them. They may be morally bankrupt, but they are not stupid. They have lied to legistators, they have lied to journalists, they have lied to pediatricians and worst of all, they have lied to you and your children."
David Ayoub MD, 'Mercury, Autism and the Global Vaccine Agenda
"As a pediatrician, who has been a fellow of the American Academy of pediatrics (AAP) for two decades, I find the AAP's approach to the autism epidemic to be deeply disturbing. Not only have they allowed the myth of better diagnosing (as the reason for all the notice given to affected children) to be perpetuated, but when they were put on notice at the Center for Disease Control and Prevention's (CDC'S) Simpsonwood meeting in 2000, that the mercury in the preservative thimerosal was causing speech delays and learning disabilities, they obfuscated and hid that information. For all above reasons, I will no longer enable the AAP to be party to the damage that is being done to the world's children by sending in my dues for a third decade. It is a token protest, but it has to begin with someone."
Kenneth P. Stoller, MD 'My Open Letter to The American Academy of Pediatrics'
Posted by: Virginia | November 07, 2010 at 07:41 AM
Aspie,
CDC and NIH hold vaccine patents. Every time a girl gets an HPV shot, NIH gets a check.
Posted by: Ginger Taylor | November 07, 2010 at 02:00 AM
Aspie,
One more thing: you do NOT support neurodiversity. You support what you believe (and that is not diversity). And it is very obvious, since you do not support parents who try to heal their children. And no, you do NOT understand my daughter better than I do. You don't know her and I've been with her every single day of her life. And you are an arrogant ignorant. So, just get down your pedestal and start looking at the autistic children around you and think beyond yourself. They are suffering...
Posted by: Anna | November 06, 2010 at 10:47 PM
Aspie,
You really don't seem to get it: pharmaceutical companies are paying government agencies directly. Here, in the US, we have legalized bribing. It is called lobbyism. Pharmaceutical companies spend huge amounts of money in so-called "grants" and other research studies, but basically is money going directly to the CDC. Also, they promised positions (well-paid ones) to the heads of the CDC (Gerberding?). So, that is why AAP and CDC will not opposed pharma. Too much money involved... Not a conspiracy. Simple greediness and lack of morals.
Posted by: Anna | November 06, 2010 at 10:43 PM
Thank you Ginger for spelling it out for the AAP because they just haven't got a clue how they became so untrustworthy. It sounds like they have an impressive operative at their service.
John: "Padiatrics has become a hit and run game." I've had that same thought haunt me daily. How they can turn their backs on the children they see hurt by their vaccine program and not improve it nor attempt to aid the children speaks volumes about their character(s).
Wise people have reasoned that public health should not just be measured by the lack of infectious disease; it should also be measured by the lack of chronic disease. The recent development of epidemic levels of various chronic diseases in our children share an environmentally immune-mediated genesis. According to a sobering CDC statistic, one in every six American children has a chronic, disabling health condition. As evidenced by the AAP's zeal to eradicate infectious diseases that never came close to disabling children at that rate, they have become irrationally focused on preventing infectious disease at any cost....
Posted by: Donna K | November 06, 2010 at 10:33 PM
"Padiatrics has become a hit and run game. As the schedule grow so do more and more children appear with neurological deficits, allergies, asthma, diabetes."
I've noticed at my children's preschool a number of kids who are getting diagnosed with sensory issues at age 4 & 5 and older.
These kids were apparently normal as toddlers and early preschoolers with no concerns voiced by parents or teachers and then at 4 or 5 suddenly sensory issues are kicking in.
This seems different to me from the kids that I was aware of 8 yrs ago with sensory issues - they were diagnosed earlier - around the same time as autism. But now newly onset sensory issues at 4 or 5 that's different.
Now, let's see....."a new syndrome is described (circa flu vax madness years)...."
A flu shot with a nice big dose of mercury at age 4 could do that you know.
Ahhh...more damaged kids and more warrior moms in the making. Our Army goes by the hour....sadly.
Posted by: Beth | November 06, 2010 at 10:28 PM
Aspie said: "I speak for your children because I understand where they're coming from."
Nah, you don't speak for my son. He'll speak for himself, thank you very much. And as his parent who is raising him, I will advocate on his behalf when he needs me to as I know him better than anyone. Obvs, you don't have children.
Posted by: samaxtics | November 06, 2010 at 09:20 PM
James Madison was always my favorite "founding father" because he took such amazing notes at the Constitutional Convention. Note-takers so rarely get credit, but it's obviously really important to create a written record when important stuff is going down.
Ginger, your work here is amazing. Thank you for sharing this information, as well as your brilliant commentary on the Cooper conversation, the events of the summer of 2008, and its implications for the argument (if one can call it that) that Paul Robinson made in his comments here the other day.
I wonder what, indeed, happened to the Cooper study that got buried under Gerberding? Perhaps a FOIA request could be made to unearth it...
Posted by: Theresa O | November 06, 2010 at 09:10 PM
Don't even try to defend DAN. They will not engage government officials or publish the peer reviewed studies needed to justify their own protocol. Hundreds of state and federal autism hearings have occurred over the past five years. Where is DAN? Spare me with Steve
Edelson. Is this what you call leadership?
Sorry Jenny, screw greening our vaccines as the message.
We should be focused on one demand and one non negotiable demand.
A philosophical exemption. I live in a state without one. Those of you supporting obamacare may want to consider the implications of obamacare and how it will likely mandate vaccination. Quit wasting your precious time on the AAP. As Michael Savage says "they should all be locked up". As Rush Limbaugh says"go to hell" on forced vaccination.
This is a big tent issue. Not one to be hijacked by those with a different agenda.
Posted by: Less Talk More Action | November 06, 2010 at 09:05 PM
Aspie says,
"I speak for your children because I understand where they're coming from."
I say, "You will never speak for my children, Aspie. Never."
Posted by: Not an MD | November 06, 2010 at 08:56 PM
Aspie
The government benefits the government by giving into industry lobbyist all the time. Meanwhile, Julie Gerberding, who once admitted under the pressure of the Hannah Poling case that vaccines can cause autism in vulnerable people, less than a year from leaving the directorship of the CDC became head of Merck's division. Its just the same as fighting wars in Asia benefits arms manufacturers. And, of course, generating lots of chronic diseases and disorders is even more indirectly lucrative than the vaccine business itself. Personally, I think it is mostly the short term greed and recklessness of people who are onto a good thing (just like the bankers), though you can't always rule out even more sinister motives such as those you have mentioned.
Posted by: John Stone | November 06, 2010 at 07:10 PM
Aspie-I said vaccinations benefitted pharma and the peds. Who knows, maybe the government will clue in that there are a lot of problems with healthcare and the economy is collapsing. I personally believe in universal healthcare.
Posted by: Jen | November 06, 2010 at 07:08 PM
ASPIE!
Did you get those mood swings checked out?
Did you read any on that bipolar thing I suggested?
I have a bipolar person right now in a very foul, evil mood that snaps my head off if I ask her if I could pour her a ginger ale. WHEW!
Posted by: Benedetta | November 06, 2010 at 07:06 PM
Benedetta, I know you live with them and see their problems but to know what it's like to be autistic, you have to experience it first hand. This is why you shouldn't dismiss my input. I know you have a great understanding of your children as you see them every day and love and care about them. If you wish to understand your children more, why wouldn't you want the insight of an autistic adult? After all, I was once a child and so were all other adults on the spectrum.
Posted by: Aspie | November 06, 2010 at 06:50 PM
Jen, how exactly would government mandated vaccinations benefit the government? Health care expenditure is going up every year and comprises 17.3 percent of the GDP. If this continues the economy will certainly collapse. The federal reserve can't continue to issue so many bonds without the inevitable hyperinflation. We can kiss the value of the dollar behind say hello to a new Weimar Republic.
Are you suggesting that many government officials keep quiet about the issue so that they can make a killing investing in pharmaecutical companies? Even if that were the case, the situation is non-sustainable. If we are to have hyperinflation in addition to mass government dependency, the system cannot sustain itself. If customers can't afford pharmaceutical products, the companies will go under and the stocks will have no value.
Maybe you are suggesting this is a well-orchestrated attempt to collapse the economy so that any sort of dictator is held as a savior?
Posted by: Aspie | November 06, 2010 at 06:05 PM
The leaders of AAP are on top of the totem pole looking down on us crawling insects from afar.
How about those ped that acutally watched my kids struggle of 14 to 18 years and refused to help even a little? You know those lower on the totem pole that could actually see more of what was going on?
They could have at least not lied and told me that my son had febrile seizures and he had a 75 percent chance of out growing them.
They could have at least told me that the EEG at the University of Kentucky caught his seizures as he was going to sleep and there was no seizure.
They could have at least toook me serious when I said I am finding him standing in the middle of the room pulling his shirt and looking lost.
When I finally insisted that we see a neurologist that could not have fought me and sent me to psychologist instead.
When I finally insisted that we see a neruologist the sent me to their college buddy "Good ole boys are not just for red necks, apparently"
When I insisted we see a different neurologist again and agian I found myself out in the hall way or a home when they call me to tell me that the next appointment was with the good ole boy!
It took 18 years when one on them finally showed a heart cell, and asked if I knew why my daughter had Kawasakis. Other than that I was clueless - okay really dumb.
It is very secondary to what they did to my kids, but they also took my trust in educated people,they took my trust in education - period. They took my trust in my government, they took my trust in myself. I guess the only reason I was able to receive my masters from Eastern KY Univeristy was just because I was so foolish that they felt sorry for me and just gave it to me!
Aspie - if we make this statment of they are out to get us and not let us breed or live it is not that we really believe it. It is the way that they acted, with such contempt, and uncaring - that is what that is all about.
Do not say ever again that you know how my child or children feel. Because you do not! You know how you feel. My two have multi system immune problems as well as epilespy. And it appears to me you are trying to pick a fight.
Not that I would usually care, but I started going over how the peds acted in all this and I am just a weeeee bit sensitive.
So I don't want to hear how there is such a thing as neuro diverse bunch of crap.
Posted by: Benedetta | November 06, 2010 at 05:56 PM
Twyla, I was born years before the hepatitis B vaccine was even invented. Try again.
Posted by: Aspie | November 06, 2010 at 05:50 PM
Reading between the lines, it appears as if the AAP was at the DAN to make "someone" happy, not to actually do something different.
Posted by: Heidi N | November 06, 2010 at 05:32 PM
Aspie, Personally, I don't believe that vaccination is being used as a means of getting rid of people that are prone to auto-immune conditions. I just think they bring in lots of money-money for pharma and a reason for the peds to exist (since the majority of their practice centers around the "well baby visit." I think they simply don't give shit if there is a lot of collateral damage.
Posted by: Jen | November 06, 2010 at 05:30 PM
Aspie said, "I also want to make the point that although vaccines can lead to autism symptoms in a minority of cases, the majority of autistic people have a different neurology from birth."
Since vaccines begin either on the day of birth (Hep B) or at age two months, you cannot rule out vaccines as a cause just because someone appeared to have autistic tendencies since infancy and/or did not have a period of normal development before regression.
Posted by: Twyla | November 06, 2010 at 05:06 PM
Interesting lessons. Louis Z Cooper when vastly outnumbered becomes momentarily reasonable, and then disappears into the mists. This goes on year after year because these people never have to answer, never have to face any reality but the synthetic one they have manufactured. Padiatrics has become a hit and run game. As the schedule grow so do more and more children appear with neurological deficits, allergies, asthma, diabetes.
The trouble is Lou is that if you were less frightened and more concerned you would be listening and acting rather than issuing edicts of infallibility. Science can't be wrong? Well, actually it can't be science if you keep on pushing the key questions to the margins with ill designed epidemiology, and absolutely no clinical curiosity whatsoever.
The AAP and the US government have only a single reaction to vaccine damage which isn't "we'd better look into this" but "sue us if you can". They are using every kind of legal and institutional gambit to protect the policy. And then they expect people to believe what they say, and trust them. And every year the heap of ruined lives, for which they can provide no explanation whatsoever, mounts up.
Posted by: John Stone | November 06, 2010 at 04:58 PM
@ any AAP people reading this:
Ego or children?? That is where you are. Take a moment and imagine you are standing at the pearly gates. What conversation will God have with you regarding your actions or nonactions and this epidemic? Stop the maddness.
Posted by: polliwog | November 06, 2010 at 04:31 PM
There will come a day when the truth of what happened to generations of innocent, vulnerable children will be self-evident and accepted the world over. The AAP just doesn't get it that the face of this medical holocaust won't be represented by the faceless industry names that enticed this once noble profession to sacrifice children for their greedy purposes. The face of this nightmare will be each individual pediatrician's face that each family and community is personally familiar with. They have been complicit in the cover-up and have perpetuated the damage in order to save face. Ironic, isn't it.
Posted by: Donna K | November 06, 2010 at 03:00 PM
Some of you claim that the government is using vaccinations as a means of eugenics. You claim that the government's ultimate goal is to get rid of people with predisposition to chronic disease. You believe they use vaccines to trigger diseases in those with mitochondrial disorders. This view makes no sense, as people with chronic diseases such as asthma and diabetes continue to reproduce. Believe it or not, many people on the autism spectrum reproduce as well. If they want to trigger diseases in order to eliminate them from the population, they would have to curb the reproduction of those with mitochondrial dysfunction and immune issues.
I do, however, believe that the pharmaceutical industry may be withholding cures for certain diseases because there is more money to be made in treatment than in cure.
I also want to make the point that although vaccines can lead to autism symptoms in a minority of cases, the majority of autistic people have a different neurology from birth. I was never a "normal" baby who regressed after vaccination. I always disliked eye contact, hated it when most people held me, and had obsessive repetititve behaviors. I walked, talked, and toilet trained on time but always displayed autistic behavior.
I support neurodiversity because it means a comparatively easier life for people like me. It leads to less discrimination and more acceptance. I speak for your children because I understand where they're coming from. I understand their issues because I too am on the spectrum. I can get into their psyche far more than any neurotypical can.
Posted by: Aspie | November 06, 2010 at 02:29 PM
the aap is upset because money/funding interests have put the between a rock and a hard place.
apparently the money is winning and driving that train.
Posted by: Casey Jones | November 06, 2010 at 12:31 PM
hepatitis B vaccine on day 1 - this is worse than medical malpractice. It’s criminal extortion, assault, battery, and federal civil rights violation. Our children are being WILLFULLY poisoned. This criminal! There is criminal intent - mens rea. Google search the Simpsonwood transcript. We need to start naming names. The co-conspirators need to be held to account for this carnage.
“Robert Kennedy on the Vaccine Autism Coverup”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrIM2hwrLoc&feature=related
"Ground-Breaking Monkey Study: Mercury-Containing Hepatitis B Vaccine Causes Brain Damage"
http://www.safeminds.org/news/wakefield-hewitson-mercury-hepB-vaccine.html
Posted by: patrons99 | November 06, 2010 at 12:26 PM
Loved the video, it sums things up nicely. I am especially intrigued by the fact that they knew about the primate study. Those researchers sure got frozen out.
Posted by: Jen | November 06, 2010 at 12:18 PM
everything you wrote is so right freakin on!the AAp hides behind their own deception..special masters decisions re-inforce their awful behavior..our kids counted for nothing! as parents of damaged children, we will refuse to go away..we will keep showing up..reliving our pain ,our story will keep getting told..because if it can help another innocent baby then we have done our jobs,as engaged intelligent moms and dads....candace
Posted by: candace | November 06, 2010 at 09:26 AM
Thanks, Ginger, for bringing us into the fold
and explaining the events and how they happened. You're a great sleuth.
Maurine
Posted by: Maurine Meleck | November 06, 2010 at 09:14 AM
"Cooper: “Is there any reason to give Hep B vaccine at birth”? (said as if he is seriously questioning why we are doing it.)"
So many revelations.
Thank you Ginger for being our eyes and ears, and for having your computer with you when all of this went down!
Posted by: pharmawatch | November 06, 2010 at 08:57 AM
Since no real action by AAP took place after the April 2008 DAN conference in Cherry Hill, it is likely that AAP sent Dr. Cooper for the purpose of public relations damage control.
Consider what would happen if Jenny McCarthy had done nothing. Could AAP then go on with their merry, profitable, and unconscious way of life?
Thank you Ginger and please continue to “daily, fearlessly, continue to speak truth to power” on Adventures in Autism.
Posted by: Jim Thompson | November 06, 2010 at 07:06 AM