Show Me Vaccines are Safe! - The Importance of the Supreme Court and Bruesewitz v. Wyeth
Father Climbs Mont Blanc for National Autism Association

Roy Grinker In Minnesota

Grinker By Patti Carroll

I recently had the unpleasant experience of sitting through not one, but two forums that featured Roy Richard Grinker as featured speaker.

I attended these forums by invitation from the University of Minnesota LEND (Leadership Education in Neurodevelopmental and Related Disabilities) group.  The LEND program is not new, but the U of M chapter is, and this was the first public forum presented by the group.  I knew the organizers were thrilled to have Grinker, and I’m sure to most academic types, he seems impressive.  I, of course, was doubtful, knowing Grinker had blatantly published inaccurate information in his book.

The first 90-minute session was for professionals and academics, and carried the subtitle: “The Effect of Culture on the Recognition and Prevalence of Autism Spectrum Disorders”

The flyer indicated that: “Professor Grinker, researcher, writer, and parent, will describe the current state of research on autism prevalence and diagnosis from a global, cross-cultural perspective. In addition to describing the role of epidemiology in autism research, he will present data from his epidemiological project in South Korea, and discuss research on early diagnosis among Zulu toddlers in South Africa and Mexican migrant farmers in Florida.
Although the description of this lecture would lead one to believe that there would be much discussion about autism prevalence in other cultures, Grinker wasted no time in revealing his true agenda, which was to disprove that autism has actually increased at all over time.  He claimed that prevalence actually means proportion, while incidence represents the rate of new cases over time.  He then stated that the currently reported incidence of autism is incorrect.  Now, had this man backed up that declaration with any good data whatsoever, it would have been a pretty powerful statement.  But what followed was a ridiculous collection of anecdotal statements, cheesy graphs and power point slides, and sly digs at virtually any source showing that autism is increasing.  He incessantly used the phrase “WE know…” and frequently referred to his own commentary and rebuttals to bolster his arguments.  He said repeatedly that he was not aware of any data (or studies, or literature) that presented different facts, which was actually quite laughable, because the whole basis of his argument was that people who are looking for something (namely autism) will find it everywhere!  I guess it goes both ways.  When you purposely DON’T look for something, you can claim you “aren’t aware” of it. 

One of the more absurd observations he made was to present a slide of the U.S., showing the rate of autism in each state, then showing a slide of the U.S. that showed the number of autism services in each state.  He used the examples of Alabama (with the lowest rate of autism and the lowest number of services) and New Jersey (with the highest rate of autism and the most autism services available).  In what was intended to be a dramatic “Aha!” moment, Grinker purported that the reason there are more kids diagnosed with autism in New Jersey is because there are more services there. 

Yeah right – if we build it, they will come.  No data was presented whatsoever as to what came first – the need for services or the services themselves, and of course, he conveniently neglected to mention the fact that New Jersey is the most vaccinated state in the nation, to go along with their distinction of having the highest rate of autism in the nation.  Another sad attempt to prove his point was when he used the hidden “FedEX” arrow slide to show that even though you don’t necessarily see something right away, it doesn’t mean it isn’t there.  I guess this was meant to show people that autism has always been around us, we just didn’t notice it before.

Grinker spent only 15 minutes out of the first 90-minute presentation talking about his research in other cultures.  This included showing a clip from a 2005 Korean film that featured a person with autism, which he claims brought great awareness of autism to Korea.  He made a really weird statement about Korean moms being “happy” when they have a child with autism, and revealed that his conclusions about prevalence in Korea were based largely on focus groups run by Grinker himself.  This was one of the times he said “I don’t know of another study…”, and then claimed the work was “…what we consider to be the most rigorous…”  Uh, yeah – I guess you could consider your work the most rigorous, when it has never been done before!  I found it peculiar that Grinker (who is an anthropologist, not a psychologist) mentioned during the second forum that in his research in South Korea, 75% of the kids they diagnosed in their study had had no autism services in the past.  What is an anthropologist doing making autism diagnoses during an epidemiological project?

There were far fewer people at the second presentation, which was geared toward the “Community”, and held at the MN Department of Health.  This talk was very similar to the first talk, but I noticed that Grinker was even more outwardly contemptuous of anyone who disagreed with him.  I didn’t think he could be more arrogant and self-important than the morning session, but I was wrong.  Maybe he felt more secure in the Department of Health setting to spew his propaganda.  Some of the lowlights included dissing parents who use chelation and supplements, bringing up the Chicago Tribune article on OSR, mentioning the NYT article about the pertussis epidemic - blaming it (of course) on unvaccinated populations, and saying that even though the increase in autism “feels like an epidemic, science shows it’s otherwise”.  During the Q&A afterward, I called him out on this statement.  I asked what “science” he was talking about.  First, he actually tried to claim he didn’t say it, but I referred to my notes and repeated what he had said.  Then he backed down, and said “What I should have said is that there is no scientific evidence for the increase in autism”.  I responded, “Is there any evidence that it’s NOT increasing, though?”  Here he went back to claiming how hard it is to prove that there is or isn’t an increase in incidence, prevalence studies are so hard… blah, blah, blah.  From there he jumped right to saying that “Today the state of California declared an epidemic of pertussis – due to high rates of unvaccinated people”.  So I guess in Grinker’s world a few hundred people getting a highly contagious disease unquestionably constitutes an epidemic, but 1% of the population having autism (and Grinker thinks the incidence of autism is actually closer to 2%) isn’t anything to be concerned about.  Wow.  I interjected at this point that we had had a similar pertussis situation recently in Minnesota, and he interrupted, asking if there had been an epidemic declared.  I responded that they called it an “outbreak”, and had just managed to say that it had been among VACCINATED kids before he cut me off again. 

There were several other good questions from the small audience, and one woman brought up the Hertz-Picatto (sp?) prevalence study.  Grinker’s response to this was to again refer to his own rebuttal letter regarding this study, and then revert to blathering about the variables, quantifying awareness, the poor quality of the dataset, blah, blah, blah.  Someone asked about doing a study of vaccinated vs. unvaccinated populations, and Grinker’s response was that it would be too difficult to do, and would be “unethical” anyway.  This was a pattern throughout both presentations – claiming that incidence studies are incredibly difficult, and most often incorrect – but expecting the audience to accept his opinion as the gospel truth. 

It’s no surprise that Grinker wholeheartedly supports the addition of Asperger’s to the DSM-V.  He spoke at length of his daughter, and how wonderful it has been for her to achieve the level of acceptance she now enjoys.  Grinker feels that it’s so important for kids like his daughter (who, incidentally, has held a job since she was fifteen years old where she is responsible for supervising and taking care of five-year olds at a public zoo!) to be lumped in with the rest of the kids on the spectrum.  I’m sorry, but I fail to see what good can come of comparing a child like his 18-year-old daughter to a non-verbal, self-injurious, diaper-wearing 18-year-old.  Unless, of course, your goal is to further dilute the pool of autism diagnoses, thereby minimizing the suffering of the severely affected - or, to further support your outlandish statement that the rate of autism hasn’t increased.  Honestly, there were so many bizarre proclamations made by this man, I could go on all day.  But I just want to give you one more quote to show just how out of touch Grinker is.  He actually stated that there are a lot more people with Asperger’s who have a harder time holding down a job than someone with more classic autism!  He seriously said it!

I sent an e-mail to the event coordinators to let them know what I thought of Mr. Grinker.  The person who responded was very gracious, and appreciated my candid critique of the forums.  She also indicated that while she agreed with some of what he said, she also completely disagreed with some of what he said.  I look forward to future forums by the LEND Program, which has a goal of making “real world impact on the lives of the 3.8 million children with developmental disabilities in the U.S.”, and I hope they choose speakers that actually admit there is a problem, with topics that can actually help achieve that goal.  

I want to make one more point here, and to finish what I tried to explain to Mr. Grinker about the pertussis outbreak here in Minnesota.  In mid-May, I got a call from an epidemiologist at our county health department.  One of the kids in my daughter’s DI group had been diagnosed with pertussis, and after interviewing the family, the county identified specific children who had had a lot of contact with this child.  They were making calls to all of those families to warn us, and to advise prophylactic antibiotics.  I took the opportunity to ask a lot of questions, and the answers were quite surprising.
My daughter’s friend had started showing symptoms in early April, so it was assumed that if my daughter was not showing symptoms, she was probably okay.  I asked what would happen if she had it, and it went untreated.  He replied that pertussis will clear on it's own, but people who get it may have to endure a nasty cough for many weeks.  He also said that even with antibiotics, the cough would not be relieved.  Antibiotics would only help shorten the contagious period.  I asked if there were severe, long term consequences - like sterility or organ damage - and he said no.  He told me that pertussis is usually very mild, and many people go undiagnosed and untreated with no negative side effects.  The only group for whom pertussis is a risk is infants.
I then asked how my daughter’s friend could have caught this disease, and why they would worry that it could be transmitted, when every one of the kids in the DI group had been vaccinated against pertussis.  He told me that they have found that the vaccine works for a maximum of five years, but that in many cases, kids have contracted pertussis very soon after being vaccinated (!), so the vaccine doesn't have any guarantees - which is why they are now recommending yet ANOTHER booster for kids around my daughter's age (11).
I said, "That's ridiculous - if the vaccine doesn't even work in most kids, why bother?  Wouldn't it make more sense to let them get this disease naturally around this age, when they're young and strong - so they can develop a natural immunity to it?"  He replied that pertussis is not a disease you can become immune to.  "WHAT??" I replied, "How can you then lump this vaccine into the category of 'immunizations'?  Isn't that falsely leading people into believing that by taking the shot, they will become immune?"  He agreed!  After 45 minutes of discussion, I took his phone number and told him I would call back if I had further questions.
The following day, a notice was sent home to every student at the school about pertussis.  The contagious period is from the time of the first cold-like symptoms until 21 days after coughing begins.  The epidemiologist had told me that the first symptom is not a cough, but typical cold-like symptoms of a runny nose.  The cough begins to develop later.  I thought about the number of places I had been, things I had touched, people I had been near in the past DAY, not to mention the past month, and realized that there is no way they can prevent this disease from being spread, or determine whether it was spread by a vaccinated or unvaccinated person!  But I braced myself for the coming news reports: "Deadly Pertussis Outbreak Spread By Unvaccinated People..." 

And here we are, with people like Roy Grinker happy to perpetuate the lie.  As to what the point of Grinker’s presentations are – who knows?  He admitted himself that he contradicts himself with his own statements.  I just hope no one else pays good money to hear the absolute BS this guy regurgitates!

Patti Carroll two beautiful children, one of whom was severely vaccine-injured, but has improved greatly due to many years of treatment for his injuries.  She is a Rescue Angel for Generation Rescue, and volunteer for a number of autism advocacy organizations.  She serves on the board of Parents United Against Autism, and works as a special education paraprofessional.


Ben Edwards

Has it not crossed the minds of vaccine opponents that even as rates of unvaccinated children have gone up, autism is still being diagnosed as frequently as before?

And why is their dear friend, Autism Speaks, condemned by 60 disabled organizations around the globe?

Another thing. Why are no autistic people placing charges on vaccines, or supporting any of Age of Autism's views? Is THAT just coincedence?

No. People hear are merely crazy and completely convinced of their foundly held views. It is obvious that any 'Voice of Autism' should have autistic people and make decisions that do not devalue their opinions. I think Roy Grinker was brave to tell his theories. He is better than Patti's anti-autism propoganda.



Hey, Ben. I went to Tufts too. If you're talking about Dr. Offit, he's ROTATEQ not MMR. Details, sweetie. Details. KIM

Ben Edwards

I do not think Roy Grinker said you can't become immune to pertussis. You might have misquoted him saying 'you can't become immune to it NATURALLY.'
Unlike Roy Grinkers work, I see a serious lack of resources to support what this author is saying. We should probably be aware of her agenda and examining for false fact.
Anti-vaccine people don't get co-founder of the MMR vaccine is a graduate of Tufts University and the University of Maryland School of Medicine. What's Jenny McCarthy have? A high school diploma and training in PLAYBOY? It doesn't take a genius to see who is smarter.

Vikki Rothmeyer

Nice job and interesting to read Patti!! You are an amazing woman!!! We need more people like you in this world!

LJ Goes

Patti, this was just fantastic. I am doing a film that addresses mr. grinker's assertions. May I use an image of this article? I would like to show a shot of your words, specifically your quote, "what is an anthropologist doing making autism diagnoses during an epidemiological project?" Please email for facebook me and let me know and I will send you a release to sign and return.


Becky, Bonnie;
I talked to my sister-in-law yesterday. Her second oldest fired- again. I have lost count now of how many this young man has lost. Her twins, also have lost one job after another. Yes, they can drive - but the second oldest son (had four boys)had his liscense revoked, too many tickets.

One of the twins lost his job at the country club, because although he mowed okay, he had not a clue on how to trim a hedge. So they let him go, and were not a bit kind about it.

These boys have worked or attempted to do every miniual job they can find. They have worked at sanding furniture, worked for a landscaper, moving furniture for the school system, selling cars, cleaning cars, cleaning Hurricane Katrina trailers, worked for Wal Mart, several grocery stores - as stockers, and the list goes on and on.

These young men look like the most defeated human beings on the planet. They now walk with stoop shoulders, head down, they are only in their early 20's.
Bad enough to have a disease,and then the rest of the world gets to finish beating them up.

This last lost job was a good one,he was working for the road department. They have cried for a week now.


Becky, I think you hit the nail on the head re: employability of individuals with AS compared with classic autism. That has been my experience as well.

B. Swanson

Oh Patti,
Thank you for being a parent that can speak when its more important breathing.
Thank for going to the meeting and sharing what should be on the front page of news papers and news at 6.
Education and printed materials such as this article are a beginning to educate what are the questions and where are the answers, for every one to ask.
Parents and the experience of the children
and there lives with each having there stories is what needs to be written and heard and referred to other parents to start the information highway.
This guy not only need to be exposed but I think the term was , sent on a rail out of town.........
Thank you Patti.


Another "expert" who says what many people want to hear, but not necessarily what they need to hear.

On the discussion of pertussis vaccination (and tetanus and possibly others?), do we have evidence that vaccination against the toxoid provides benefit and what is the mechanism or theory behind that (I'm not unopen to anecdotal evidence even)? I'm not meaning to be rhetorical, and if anyone who understands that can take the time to educate me, it is much appreciated.

shiny happy person

"...A mother is cradling her baby in her arms, and an ominous voice says "You think the safest place for your baby is in your arms, but it can also be the most DANGEROUS!! Studies show that up to 80% of cases of pertussis are spread by family members. Protect your baby and get the new adult pertussis vaccine."

Yeah - I almost expect the Monty Python Spanish Inquisition to come bursting through the door at the end of these shameless melodramas.

"Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... "

The latest ad (Pristiq) in the never-ending spew leaves me with the same feeling of disgust. God, this stuff makes me wanna trash the TV. The youtube parodies are probably better "medicine" for the overwhelming number of cases of "depression" (i.e. being an adult - deal with it) than the drug itself (google "pristiq" and "ad" and watch the general public help Wyeth embarrass themselves).

Despite the potentially serious impact, in certain cases, of pertussis, depression, or any other medical condition, the level of condescending bullsh$t and emotional blackmail these ads exemplify is the one thing that sticks with me every time I hear a name like "Pristiq" or "Abilify" or any one of several other (likely very expensive - a good name costs a lot) brand names today. Mention pertussis and all I can think about is that ominous moron in the commercial telling me I'm gonna kill my kid if I don't run out and get that shot right now. Fear, guilt, intimidation - right - there's no other industry out there that's quite as good at provoking a total "f$ck you" response from their target audience (ok - maybe I'm not the target audience - but I don't think I'm that alone in my contempt for this stuff...). If I did "ask my doctor" anything related to these products - it would be if he / she would be willing to contact his / her governing body and pressure them to lobby for a ban on these stupid friggin' DTC ads....


the pertussis vaccine 'works' against the pertussis toxin, which causes symptoms - so yes, the vaccine 'works' by masking the presence of the bacteria and thus helps only the vaccinee. It does nothing to protect vulnerable populations, never has.

The DTaP does nothing to prevent transmission of diptheria either (again, it works against the diptheria toxin, read the insert) - but infants aren't developing diptheria. Its not thanks to the vaccine - its living conditions.


For those of us who still believe that inoculations "work", I respect your right to choose to be jabbed. However, I strongly believe that we must all stand firm against mandated jabs of any kind. You can liken them to rape. They violate every notion of civility. They violate our God-given unenumerated rights. They are causing us to loose our humanity. How certain are we that we are still human? consider SV40, consider XMRV. Even the Darwinists amongst us, must agree that evolution is now taking a dramatically new turn. Linus Pauling saw truth, perhaps more clearly than any us. He won his first Nobel prize for his work on protein structure. We now know that the human genome is under epigenetic control. Pauling was prophetic. Something as simple as a single hydrogen bond or electrostatic interaction between molecules can disrupt the natural order. What are we doing to ourselves by allowing ourselves to be jabbed, serially, from cradle to grave, by pharma's xenobiotics? Sorry, for any typos, but I'm late for work. Sometimes a thread grabs you and won't let go.


Hi all. Well, I, too had the Whooping Cough as an adult when I was 42. I had it for six months and it almost killed me. I don't have any of the answers either, but this doctor on the telephone really did down play the effects of Pertussis. I, too, can see how easily it could kill an infant or small child. I was very, very, very ill. My lungs have never come back from it, and I now have many issues with them.

Take care all.


Didn't all the schools get the same pertussis memo? Same time??? Was that a government mandated memo?


@ barbaraj - "The pathogens win every time, and we have already created some "atypical" variations of disease through our immunization efforts that are killers."

Very true! I've reached the same conclusion. So too did Florence Nightingale, more than a century ago. She was a hero...a truly independent thinker. Even Louis Pasteur, himself, is widely thought to have recanted his "germ theory" on his deathbed.

It is the height of folly and arrogance for humans to think that we can "outsmart" microbes, many of which have existed on this planet for far longer than our species has existed. All we are really doing, is selecting out the xenobiotic-resistant, mutated and evolved strains of microbes. They become harder to "treat" the next time.

There will never be a one-size fits all vaccine, antiviral, or antibiotic. Pharma and their surrogates (e.g. WHO, CDC, FDA) have perpetuated the myth that by trotting out brand new, "Johnny-on-the-Spot" designer jabs, antibiotics, and antivirals, every time a new strain or outbreak occurs, that "we" will always prevail. This is nonsense. This is hubris.

Pasteur's germ theory of disease could easily be wrong. Microbes evolve, mutate, and readily adopt their form to best suit the terrain. They are highly efficient opportunists, that set up shop and multiply, when the environment is most conducive. The "terrain" is everything in determining health versus disease, not the microbe. Germs are everywhere. We cannot change that reality.

In health, we are all colonized with "normal flora". To best maintain our health, we would probably be better off by simply trying everything we can to make our bodies as inhospitable as possible for germs to multiply, by protecting and strengthening our natural immune defenses. Pharma's xenobiotics often succeed in doing just the opposite.

Anne McElroy Dachel

Thank you for this in-depth article. Grinker is amazing. Our country is sinking into
the rising tide of autism and he pretends it isn’t happening.
If he wants to talk about a real epidemic in CA, he should look at their autism numbers.
Ten years ago, there were 14,000 students with in their schools, today there are 46,000 students and growing.
In a California State Senate press conference last year they announced that eight-four percent of the autism population is under the age of 21, along with other alarming statements like,
"[There are] more six and seven year olds in the system than all the adults with autism combined."
In a press release from the Governor of Maryland, Martin O'Malley, the public was told:
'...Ten years ago, 1,600 Maryland children with autism were being served by Maryland's educational system. Today, that number has grown to 7,500.
A few months ago the New York Times reported this information about New York City schools:
"In 2001, the city's Department of Education listed 3,278 students with autism; by 2008, that figure had more than doubled to 6,877."
In a recent article in the Washington Post we read, “According to statistics compiled by the Fairfax County [VA] Public Schools, 1 in 83 enrolled students are now diagnosed with some form of autism, an 846 percent growth since 1997.”
Dr. Tom Insel (head of IACC/NIMH) on Autism has been telling audiences at the MA Institute of Technology and at the National Institutes of Health that there is an autism epidemic and he’s asking about "how we prepare the nation for a million people who may need significant services."
Evidently, Grinker is clueless as to what’s happening in the real world.
Anne Dachel

Mr T

I went through 2 years of denial thinking my son would regain his speech after reading Sowell's book. Guys like Grinker and Sowell waste people's time and time is very short. My son was mercury poisoned.

Heidi N

I really don't know how you sat through that without throwing up. I don't think I could, and I am not exaggerating.

Lisa @ TACA

Thomas Sowell and Grinker need to go bowling. Same stupid advice and DO NOTHING YOUR KID IS FINE attitude.

These two have hurt many families.

PJ Carroll

Thanks for the comments, everyone!
Becky - Great points about the employability of people with Asperger's vs. classic autism. I think what really bothered me about the comment was the context in which he made it. This was while Grinker was talking about how wonderful it will be for kids with Asperger's to finally be included with the rest of the autism world in one big happy family when the new DSM version comes out. There was absolutely no consideration of what it will mean to those on the other end of the spectrum, and I felt he was really reaching there to find one good reason why this diagnostic change would be beneficial to anyone.

Guri - As for the Somali anomaly, it was discussed in both forums. But Grinker claimed it would be far too difficult to determine the true prevalence of autism among Somali immigrants because there is no definite denominator to start with - he claims the number of Somalis in Minnesota has been quoted to be between 15,000 and 60,000. But during the second session, held at the Department of Health, he absolutely gushed about the "excellent" report the MDH put out in March of 2009 on the prevalence of autism in the Somali community!

I read this report back then, and even though the MDH concluded that Somali immigrant kids were accessing special ed services in Minneapolis at 2 to 7 times the rate of the general population, there was absolutely NO plan whatsoever to declare any kind of emergency, or medically examine these kids in any way. The whole action plan revolved around finding better ways to track and count them!

Incidentally, I work in a school district that does not have a high percentage of Somali immigrants, but in a class in which I worked this past school year (for kids with autism who are 3 or 4 years old), four out of the five kids in the class were Somali. So the Somali autism cluster is still "the elephant in the room" here in Minnesota, with nothing being done by the health authorities to stop it.

And on the pertussis issue, Zannie - I agree that it can be horrible to endure. Although we have never been diagnosed, I'm sure my kids and I have gotten pertussis many times over the years. My point is that there is NOTHING that can be done to stop the spread of this disease - but people are being led to believe that there is. There is a commercial being shown here regularly now. You know - the typical fear-based format: A mother is cradling her baby in her arms, and an ominous voice says "You think the safest place for your baby is in your arms, but it can also be the most DANGEROUS!! Studies show that up to 80% of cases of pertussis are spread by family members. Protect your baby and get the new adult pertussis vaccine." So in addition to adding in another dose for kids who are 11 or 12, they also are pushing an adult version of the pertussis vaccine. Health authorities know that the vaccine is largely ineffective, but when drug companies market their product directly to the consumer, they can say whatever they want, including using stats from their own studies.


Thanks, Patti, for reporting on Grinker's continuing litany of misinformation, rhetorical bait-and-switch tactics, and ability to talk at cross purposes as it suits him.

Grinker's insistence that increased services were responsible for increased diagnoses is absurd. Initially getting services was a struggle for most families, and battles over funding are ongoing. Autism treatment clinics aren't like sports stadiums.

Some Minnesotans (including journalists) are quite provincial, easily bedazzled by published authors with well-funded PR teams and accepting of assertions of co-opted establishment approval. And the Minnesota Department of Health management strategically leveraged Grinker's convenient message to redirect attention away from the tragic results of their policy failures.

It's unprofessional and deeply offensive that Grinker and others attempt to link the pertussis vaccine failure to autism. That misdirection does not change the fact that public health administrators are not properly monitoring consumers' duration of immunity to pertussis, and are not being transparent about outbreaks in vaccinated individuals.

Any disease that limits one's ability to breathe is frightening. You'd think that public health officials could do more to improve individuals' lung function and immune resistance, rather than add to people's fright.

Maurine Meleck

And U of Minnesota is my alma mater-How sad!!!!!!!!
I guess the only way these people can keep going is to keep going(always in the same direction).
Thanks for this piece It's really good.


Barbara j - we aren't dealing with anything in CA other than trying to push a standard vaccine into a lucrative new market - no measles 'epidemic' this year - so pertussis gets the brass ring. on average - 17 infants under 6 mos die every year from pertussis. We are no where near this number right now. What has increased dramatically, is the diagnosing of adults and teens with the disease (this is the rise in cases). Before they admitted that dtap vaccination wore off and left folks vulnerable - adults would not be tested for pertussis. They would be told they had allergies or the flu. Zannie - 10 years ago - your horrible cough would have been bronchitis, or flu, or psychosomatic illness, but they would never have labeled it pertussis. And you'd be going around saying, MAN - that was the worst case of flu I ever had. IT was horrible. Maybe I should start getting the flu vaccine. And remember- they used to say you couldn't vaccinate kids over 7 for pertussis because the vaccine was way too dangerous. Once they developed the teen/adult booster - suddenly there is an epidemic and everyone needs it...even though, as has been pointed out - the vaccine primarily targets the pertussis toxin (which causes the symptoms) which does nothing to keep you from carrying and transmitting the bacteria.


Thanks for exposing this guy! Great job!

And Kim, my son was a victim of Thomas Sowell's book, too. Wonder how his boy is now?


The pathogens win every time, and we have already created some "atypical" variations of disease through our immunization efforts that are killers. Within a CDC paper....pretty much says the vaccine doesn't cover the mutations that have ocurred with respect to pertussis.
CDC"We and others have shown that antigenic divergence has occurred between vaccine strains and clinical isolates with respect to surface proteins, which confer protective immunity."
What a nice way to say, vaccine doesn't work!

Becky Grant-Widen

Would have loved to have been in that audience. What an ass Grinker is....

As mush as I hate to say it, his statement about people with AS having a more difficult time holding down a job may have some truth to it. I recall hearing Steve Gutstein make that same comment during his talk at the NAA conference in Myrtle Beach several years ago. I remember it vividly because it scared the shit out of me for my high functioning kiddo. I think he had some data to support it.

I would speculate that the reason being is that the AS adults/teens have the skills to perform more complicated jobs yet their lack of social skills prevents them from keeping the job. The adults with classic autism are often enrolled in employment through their state programs....employers get support and education to make the employement more workable. I see many of the young adults with autism and other dd's out in the community, many places tend to hire several.
Adults with AS often apply for jobs like you or I would with no training or education for the employer and I can see how that could be a recipe for disaster.


What are we dealing with in California? Is it pertussis, is it parapertussis? Are we buying into a lie? I don't know, however, I do know that the symptoms are similar, and wonder what diagnostic testing is proving it's pertussis? It would be "surprising" if dtap provides immunity against parapertussis, as having natural pertussis would offer no protection. hmmm? Maybe we should pay attention to the wording of the information we get, "whooping cough epidemic"..yes both cause whooping cough, but is it being labeled a pertussis epidemic?


Funny you say that Allison - for me it was Thomas Sowell's Late Talking Children. He lulled me into the "Oh your Dad was technical so your kid is OK" with his book. I lost a lot of time for Mia.

Alison MacNeil

I read Unstrange Minds one month after my son was diagnosed with Autism at 21 months. I believed Grinker's assanine statistical manipulations because I was new to all this, it made sense to me. Because of that, I poo-pooed Bio med and vaccine injury for a full year, the year that would have made the biggest difference in my son's recovery, the year closest to his regression. I will never forgive Roy Grinker for stealing that year from Nick.


@ Jenny - "Once my daughter started taking vitamin D and C, she went from having several days of severe coughing at the end of every single evident cold to no coughing at all during almost every cold. Same with me. Could be a crazy coincidence, but I don't think so."

I don't think so either! I've been taking 5,000 units of vitamin D3 daily for quite some time now, and add higher pulse doses, at times. The body of literature supporting health benefits of Vitamin D3 supplementation/repletion is enormous, and IMHO, irrefutable by pharma and the mainstream medical establishment. Vitamin D, like Vitamin C, Vitamin B3 (niacin), and other God-designed orthomolecules, act more like an ESSENTIAL pleiotropic hormones than mere vitamins. What we eat and nutrition are keys to health and wellness. We should all strive to eat REAL food! Beware of those who would support full implementation of Codex Alimentarius in this country.

I recently heard about a physician (Mayer Eisenstein, MD, JD, MPH) who is apparently promoting high dose Vitamin D3 and probiotics for treatment of colds and flu-like symptoms during the cold/flu season. He apparently treats patients presenting with the typical symptoms with 3 days of Vitamin D3 at 50,000 units per day with probiotics added, to enhance GI absorption. He claims to have very high resolution of symptoms without the need to resort to antivirals, antibiotics, and OTC cold preparations. If these results prove to be reproducible and safe, just imagine the benefit to our health.


"He actually stated that there are a lot more people with Asperger’s who have a harder time holding down a job than someone with more classic autism!"

Isn't this because out of the two, only the person with Asperger's has a chance to get hired in the first place?


My husband and I had pertussis last year. It sucked. We lived. The real concern is with infants, particularly newborns up to 3 months of age. What this very interesting article doesn't mention is the fact that doctors do not even start vaccinating against pertussis until 3 months of age (presumably because the vaccine itself is so dangerous). And babies do not have whatever partial immunity they are going to get from the vaccine until 6 months of age, at which point the greatest threat from pertussis has already passed. I think this is one of those diseases that really needs another solution because the one they have right now doesn't work very well. I don't know what that solution is. I do know that we will never find it as long as we remained obsessed with forcing a dangerous, poorly performing vaccine on everyone.


Didn't a UC Davis paper dispell the myth that there is not increase in autism? Did they not take great pains to take into account many possibilities re: the increase and even after accounting for them, the dramatic rise in autism was still there?

I wonder if there is a correlation between the severity of the cough in pertussis and vitamin D levels in the body. Once my daughter started taking vitamin D and C, she went from having several days of severe coughing at the end of every single evident cold to no coughing at all during almost every cold. Same with me. Could be a crazy coincidence, but I don't think so.

Zannie, just out of curiosity, at the time you had your pertussis, were you getting regular doses of vitamin D either through daily sunlight exposure or supplements? Vitamins C and A levels I think are also correlated to infections. What is your opinion of your nutritional status at that time?


"Future studies should examine for novel or increasing exposures to environmental factors from gestation to at least age 3 for our calculated 1988-1989 birth cohorts. Assuming a dose-response relationship, a candidate factor would have continued to increase in the environment from the late 1980s to at least the mid-1990s in California, Denmark, and possibly Japan and other developed countries....Not much is known about autism across birth years in emerging countries, but a recent study of ASD in Hong Kong is suggestive of a rise in autism but beginning more recently than our calculated changepoints."

From "Timing of Increased Autistic Disorder Cumulative Incidence," McDonald and Paul, 2010.

mercury dad

Any idea on how to email Mr. Grinker directly? I wonder how he would care for a low-functioning autistic child, given his extremely myopic and entrepeneurial approach to the condition. Rather than shamelessly promoting his book, he could come and take care of my kid for a week or so.


Hi Zannie,
Everyone, absolutely everyone, gets pertussis. In many people it is so mild as to go unnoticed, in some people it is mildly unpleasant, others have difficult cases, some, like you, have horrible cases and finally, in infants, it can be fatal.

But no matter how you slice it and dice it, the vaccine doesn't block carriage or transmission. A person who was vaccinated last week can carry pertussis and share it.

Great article on Grinker's presentations, thank you!


I was very sad to read this. It's so obvious he sold his soul and I feel kinda sorry for him. How embarassing and humiliating. Even the people who bought his soul are laughing at him.

My guess is that they are angling to bring back the super brain damaging DPT to get rid of this "pertussis" outbreak. Brain damage is the goal afterall.

Jim Thompson

..."feels like an epidemic, science shows it’s otherwise.”

Thank you Patti for the insights into the flawed thought process here.


And no word about the "Somali anomaly"?


This is the guy a speech therapist I work with quotes to me all the time. She is young, and I tell her that is why she believes his BS. That is a big problem, time is slipping away and soon enough there will not be anyone who remembers life without autism being normal. Scarey thought ,really.


Bravo Ms Carroll! Great post. You address some very important topics, not the least of which is the Holy Grail of VAXERs (vaccine industrialists), so-called "herd" immunity.

Grinker sounds like a moral entrepeneur, an essential player in any moral panic. Just like the pandemic flu fraud and hysteria of 2009, the pertussis outbreak that you describe sounds like one of many epidemics of hysterical contagion that have occurred throughout history. They are playing on our irrational fear of disease, on a scale which is global and goes directly to the heart of vaccine policy and preventive health.

To overcome our fear, we must analyze and thoroughly understand its source. To this end, I would strongly recommend a book titled "Consructing RSI Belief and Desire" by Yolande Lucire, a forensic psychiatrist in Sydney, Australia. Constructing RSI puts medical systems and ethics under the spotlight.

We are repeatedly victims of experiments in preventive medicine gone horribly wrong.


I go along with just about all you say, but I just want to add a little. I am an adult who had pertussis about 5 years ago during a local outbreak, and although I do know it can be pretty mild, I was very sick and miserable for weeks and I can see how it can kill a younger child.

I do not know the answers, and I do think the medical establishment is way to free with vaccines and medications, but from first hand experience I will say that your doctor underplayed whooping cough tremendously, Docs do not see it often anymore, and that it is something you will never want to see your child go through. It was horrible.

I do believe vaccines have some part in autism, and I do think the untested nature and give everyone something idea has got to stop...but again...It was not just uncomfortable...It was horrible.

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