The Names People Play
By Marjorie Hansen
Unfortunately, the “Pro-Vaccine” Movement Regards Shrillness as More Effective than a Rational and Civil Discussion.
Anti-vaccine, anti-vaxx, anti-science, anti-vaxx denialism, fear mongering, unreasonable, irrational, panicked, crusaders who tell long debunked lies, they kill children. You don’t have to search long on the internet or in the newspaper to find these labels among other unprintable ones.
At this point, I’m surprised that they still call us “anti-vaccine.” We seem only one small step away from the label – “pro-baby killers.”
People on both sides of this debate are guilty of calling people on the other side names, but only one side seems surprised by it. My question to the “pro-science” side is really? After you throw mud at someone you are surprised and complain that a “panicked parent” picked it up and threw it back?
I understand that name calling can be effective and secretly satisfying, if admittedly childish. So, if you do it – own it! Many “anti-anti-vaccine” proponents like to wrap themselves in the false security of the label “science and rationality” while flinging insults. But is an argument ever that simple? Do you win over anyone by calling them stupid?
I was surprised to find myself in the periphery of the recent Amy Wallace fray. I’d commented on Dr. Parikh’s article, The Ugliness of the Anti-Vaccine Movement. (HERE) The next thing I knew I was listed as an anti-vaccine writer on a Neurodiversity blog. I decided to take a look at other bloggers’ writing.
What I found on the “pro-science” blogs didn’t surprise me.
One blogger’s wisdom includes calling J.B. Handley a “Colossal cockweaseldouchemonkey, genuine asshat, and founder of the ultimate denialist's association,” and accuses him of illegal and immoral acts [sic].
Another blogger says, in his post The anti-vaccination movement is morally bankrupt, that “Fear and intimidation is the enemy of science. But the anti-vax crowd doesn't care about dialog; since they have no science to support their delusions, all they are left with vitriolic spittle. The anti-vaxxers are fundamentally immoral. They, like many fundamentalists, want us all to suffer for their faith, and heretics and apostates must burn.”
And another blog article titled How To Kill Children Legally (Even Your Own) claims “not vaccinating your kids is like patrolling your neighborhood for panel vans while Cousin Steve, the thrice convicted child molester, stays home to babysit. Except it’s actually worse than that because every child that isn’t vaccinated raises the risk that other kids will become sick. So Cousin Steve isn’t just watching your kid, the whole play group is under his tender care.”
So, if I understand the arguments of some of the “pro-science” proponents: it’s really bad to call people names, I’m an immoral fundamentalist who is delusional and has a spitting problem, and I’m the equivalent of a procurer of victims for child molesters.
The pedestal upon which the “pro-science” movement is standing doesn’t seem very elevated, does it? But it’s very loud. It’s full of uniformed and ill-informed people who think vaccines are all that’s standing between us and death. They accept the government’s propaganda without critical thought or research. I understand this person all too well because I used to be one of them. I drank the cool-aid.
The “pro-vaccine” proponents are engaged in a purposeful and selective distortion of the “anti- vaccine” proponents’ argument.
Common tactics examined:
Label someone into irrelevance: Words have power. Labels matter. Witness the differences between the labels: pro-life, pro-choice and anti-choice extremists. This tactic also has the benefit of sometimes sidetracking the whole discussion to a label.
One of the anti-anti-vaxxers’ most effective arguments is that if someone questions the safety or necessity of any vaccine they are anti-vaccine. Many of us believe that vaccines are among the environmental triggers of autism. We question the safety of additives and preservatives in vaccines and propose spreading out the vaccine schedule. We believe some children are genetically predisposed to developing autism and we want the link between autism and vaccines studied. Somehow what they hear seems to be “vaccines are evil.” I don’t understand why the “pro-science” movement seems willing to believe half of what we say (when we question the safety) yet unwilling to believe the other half (we want them studied, so we can safely give them to our children). Anyone who claims vaccines triggered autism in their child obviously saw enough value in vaccines to vaccinate in the first place!
Another effective argument from the “zealots of one size fits all medicine” is: “the anti-vaxx movement is anti-science.” They claim that science has closed the door on any link between vaccines and autism. “Asked and answered!” They say, sandwiched between sentences calling us stupid and immoral. But science doesn’t actually work like that. Just ask any pure scientist. (They wax on poetically while you regret asking them anything.) The history of science is littered with accepted “facts” that actually were later proven false by other scientists. Our knowledge of the physical world builds upon itself. As more information is gathered and tested, established “facts” are discarded and new facts emerge.
Dr. Bernadine Healy the former head of the National Institutes of Health has publicly stated that she found credible published, peer-reviewed scientific studies that support the idea of an association between vaccines and autism. (HERE) And she said in a interview with CBS that a memo went around the NIH in 2004 saying, “Do not pursue susceptibility groups. Don’t look for those patents, those children, who may be vulnerable.” If our public health organizations are actively avoiding doing this research, it is not our side that is anti-science!
The “anti-safe vaccine” movement seems to believe that since vaccines are good and save lives, it is inexcusable to say anything bad about them. This leads to convoluted arguments such as a mercury containing compound can be safely injected in babies. How do I even respond to that? If someone claims mercury isn’t harmful they’ve chosen irrational, selective ignorance over science.
Autism is 100% genetic. Then why are the numbers increasing and why don’t both of all identical twins have it? The hidden horde doesn’t exist. “Desperate mothers” do believe that autism has a strong genetic component – that’s why many of us don’t have more children. But it is not possible to have a genetic epidemic – period.
We’re the experts! The “anti-vaxx” movement is full of hysterical parents who don’t know anything. This is colloquially known as “shut up and sit down.” This approach is used when “anti-safe vaccine” proponents claim that we don’t understand: herd immunity, correlation does not imply causation, diseases kill people, and so on. The experts also told us that refrigerator mothers caused their children to develop autism and that the only cure for autism was psychotherapy. Then they told us that autism was lifelong and to institutionalize our children. It was a parent that debunked that idea. All good science is based on observation. Parents, untrained as they are, spend countless hours observing their children from necessity. To dismiss this observational data set is arrogant and anti-science.
The medical profession castigates us for trying alternative medicine. Using that as proof that we are ignorant of science and irrational dupes who unknowingly harm our children. Well, conventional medicine has failed our children. They seem to only offer our children drugs. Then more drugs to combat the side effects caused by the first drug. They say that we’re desperate, willing to try anything regardless of harm. Well, there is no doubt that many of us are willing to try wild sounding treatments. I learned to be more open-minded after putting my son on the gluten and casein free diet. The behavior improvement caused by a dietary change shut me up and opened my mind to other alternative treatments. A gluten and casein free diet is far less risky than powerful anti-psychotic drugs!
The “weak must perish to protect the herd” movement likes to play with statistics. At first they claimed that the number of children diagnosed with autism wasn’t increasing, it was due to a change in diagnostic criteria or to misdiagnosis. They admit a few people are injured by vaccines, but won’t release VAERS data for independent replication of the analysis. Figures don't lie, but liars figure. - Samuel Clemens
“Jab them all Darwinian warriors" state that side-effects are unfortunate and wholly unpredictable. Medical professionals know that some people shouldn’t be vaccinated including those with: immune deficiencies, seizure disorders, neurological problems, certain food allergies and drug sensitivities. We argue that our children have a genetic predisposition to develop autism and that vaccines are one environmental trigger. Thus it is predictable that vaccines trigger autism in a susceptible population.
The “anti-parental choice” movement links the “anti-vaccine movement” to pseudo-sciences such as “reincarnation, channeling, and extraterrestrials.” Brilliant redirection! Thus mentioning that vaccines have side effects becomes equated with alien abduction.
And my favorite “Darwinian Fundamentalist” argument: Jenny McCarthy posed for playboy! Alright, I concede! She did. The “pro-vaxx” movement felt compelled to get their modesty impaired “spokesmodel” to compete -- Amanda Peet. Who looks better naked has no bearing on the issue!
“Champions of the herd”, when you’ve run out of arguments you can always ask the children who’ve been injured by vaccines to speak up for themselves.
Note: The labels are used to make a satirical point, not to widen the divide or offend anyone.
Marjorie Hansen unknowingly embarked on a new career as an “anti-vaccine writer.” In her spare time she searches for UFOs and spits on science. She can be sarcastic but usually tries to be respectful of others. She’s calling for a civil and label-free discussion. She blogs at Life As The Mother of 4.
Autism is part of a much bigger, and little understood, problem.
Sleep Disorders and Autism
Here is a recent dialogue between myself and Lindsay M. Oberman, Ph.D. on the topic of autism. It is very relevant and important to the discussion at hand.
Hi Lindsay. You are very welcome. You said previously:
"I have heard anecdotally that people with ASD get less sleep, and perhaps that could also explain the increased, but not stable connectivity that we are seeing in the ASD brain."
My reply to Lindsay:
"Sleep (and dreams) add to the integrated extensiveness of being, experience, and thought, thereby improving attention and memory.
Indeed, dreams make thought more like sensory experience in general, thereby improving both memory and understanding.
The increased connectivity is understood as reducing what would otherwise be the balanced/stable and integrated extensiveness of their thought and experience."
Autism is a disintegration, contraction, and detachment of being, experience, and consciousness.
Posted by: Frank Martin DiMeglio | March 08, 2010 at 05:42 PM
I say AMEN to everything you have written...and I seriously can not believe that ANY person who would use such opinionated judgemental name calling would even be CONSIDERED to be a knowledgeable and trust worthy SCIENTIST...yet, those of us parents who have NOTHING TO GAIN by trying to fight for safety studies, as our children have already been injured/vaccinated....those of us who can actually PROOVE our sources, state our sources, SHOW the SCIENCE-----WE are the 'crazies'?
When did this become 'common-place' to listen to the irrational commentaries and not the responsible and reasonable discussions?
I am BEGGING for someone to prove us WRONG in our fight..PLEASE, ANYONE, SHOW us that we are wrong, ACTUALLY STUDY IT!!!!
Wait, I forgot, we are just suppose to accept this has already been 'asked and answered' and studied much to long, and time to move on to other 'causes'....BLAH!
Also, I know this is kind of off topic here..but this week Oprah announced she is stopping 'The Oprah Show'...hmmm...she has her OWN network, anyone want to start placing bets on how long she waits before starting a new show on her own network on cable? I am willing to bet she WILL. She will then have absolute free reign on what she 'covers' and what she says...Without having to 'answer' to anyone, especially ANY promoters/advertisers/sponsors, ya know?
I HOPE she does! She has been getting increasingly more public about her political opinions, which she has never done before, so I bet, and HOPE she does this, on her network...think of it as a kind of Oprah Show, but in a Micheal Moore/exposure form...boy, if THAT wouldnt convince the 'mainstream', I dont know what would!
Mom to Ethan, Alex, and Megan
Posted by: Angie | November 21, 2009 at 05:36 PM
This was a post not to long ago,shows how much THEY CARE about our kids, pseudo care is more like it.....
he CDC to Study Vaccine Induced Encephalopathy!Posted Jul 10 2008 4:05pm Finally! The CDC's Clinical Immunization Safety Assessment Network is currently looking for subjects to "evaluate the association between viral vaccines and encephalopathy/encephalitis through a detailed evaluation of children with encephalopathy/encephalitis as well as control children".
Their messageto doctors:
"If you have a patient who you think might be eligible for the study, please complete the following two questions and provide your contact information. We thank you for your help in this important study."
This is a HUGELY important subject, one we have been waiting for them to examine, and we want to make sure that they have all the subjects they need for this study, so please take a moment to see if your child might be a candidate.
Does your child have an encephalopathy?
According to HHS'sVaccine Injury Compensation Tablesymptoms are:
Loss of eye contact
Not responding to external stimuli
Seems disconnected from the world around them
And theMerck Manualnotes that these symptoms can be preceded by:
Nonspecific Gastrointestinal disorders.
If this sounds like your child, because boy howdy it sounds just like mine, call your pediatrician and let him know about the study to see if your child indeed has an encephalopathy and should be enrolled!
Oh wait... hold on a second... there are some exclusion criteria... Let me check them out...
Ok... so if your child has the above, but DOESN'T have:
A history of medical disease
A history of congenital problems
A history of developmental delay
Any immune system dysfunction
Any family history of immune dysfunction
Fevers and Seizures with in 72 hours
THEN they want to study them to see if their encephalopathy might have anything to do with their vaccines. You know, the HEALTHY kids with encephalitis.
So as long as the swelling in your child's brain that was caused by vaccines didn't cause or was not related to any of the above symptoms, CDC wants to get to know your child.
But that pretty much counts our all our kids... now doesn't it.
This goes to show you how much they truly want to find the link to vaccines and neurodevelopmental disorders. They care that much....
So, if they care that much...I won't care about their vaccines, EEVVVEEERRR....
Posted by: Kathy Blanco | November 21, 2009 at 02:17 PM
didn't quite know where to put this but in today's Globe and Mail (Canada) there is a really interesting article about a new theory of the cause and treatment of MS. It caught my eye because as I read it there seemed to be a lot of similarities to medical issues in autism.
"hypothesized that iron was damaging the blood vessels and allowing the heavy metal, along with other unwelcome cells, to cross the crucial blood brain barrier...If this is proven correct it will be a very, very big discovery because we will completely change the way we think about MS, and how we'll treat it....
Some researchers, an American and Canadian mentioned, were very optimistic and open minded about this research but
U.S. and Canadain MS societies are cautious. "The U.S. society goes further,discouraging patients from getting tested or seeking surgical treatment. Rather it continues to promote drug treatments used to alleviate symptoms, which include corticosteroids, chemotherapy agents and pain medication."
Sound familiar? Check it out.
Posted by: jen | November 21, 2009 at 02:09 PM
Honestly, I could give a rat's ass what anyone calls me. I let it roll when I read the ignorant comments about me on another site. Not a big deal. These people don't know me, they don't really care if MY child gets better or not. They don't care that I fight everyday just to get the basic needs of my child met. They can call me whatever they want...all it does is make them look like school yard bullies. That's about all it adds up too, a bunch of bullies that have nothing to lose or gain from doing this. These type of people do it just to do it. Just for arguments sake. You have to understand the nature of THEIR beast...if they think it's hurting you, they'll keep doing it. Keep twisting the thorn.
I've learned to just ignore them no matter what they say.
Yes, I'm anti vaccine. I make NO apologizes for that, period. I don't need to explain myself or my position to them. I will however, talk to those that ask me...what exactly does "anti-vaccine mean and why are you anti-vaccine." Trust me, I've explain my position many times but I'm done wasting my time fighting these people. Over the past few years, I've changed my tactics. I would like for people to hear our stories. Actually listen so that when the pro vaccine followers start slinging mud and attacking...those people I spoke to say, "That's not true, she was nice and explain things to me. Anti- vaxers are not the monsters they are trying to make them out to be."
It took me years to figure this out...to tell the truth, I got tired of banging my head against the computer screen. Far from being worth my time.
Posted by: rileysmom | November 21, 2009 at 01:09 PM
The entire concept of "herd immunity" used to attack anti-vaccine parents is totally contradictory to the vaccine industry's claim that vaccines prevent diseases. I was raised in the military, so when you go overseas they give you all the additional vaccines to "protect" you from the specific diseases that are prevalent in those countries and which the population in those other countries are NOT vaccinated for. According to their line of so called "reasoning", we are then protected from those diseases in spite of the total lack of "Herd Immunity" in so many countries. Now why is it so different here in the USA? According to "them" why do we require herd immunity in order for the vaccines to protect the population HERE when it is not required to supposedly protect us over THERE?
The answer is that it is the same illogical line of reasoning that is behind the many other false claims used to support vaccines, such as "Genetics cause Autism", and "Mercury is safe".
Everything in science that is known regarding DNA mutation proves that it is impossible for a massive DNA mutation to produce an epidemic of autism within a 20 year generation. And for God's sake, the "Mad Hatters" 200 years ago proved that Mercury exposure in the hat making process produced neurotoxic damages, and since then Mercury has been proven in the science over and over again to be a highly toxic poison that is extremely damaging to the human body. Every "argument" that is produced by the vaccine industry and then parroted by the doctors they indoctrinate and the vaccine worshippers to supposedly support their contention that "Science" supports them is totally contradicted by the Actual Legitimate Science. Thus, the medical industry funds and produces it's own studies to create their own "science", then blasts thier own fraudulently produced statistics all over the television "news" channels, while meantime the majority of people never connect the dots that the continual drugs ads they are also watching on TV is the means that the Pharmaceutical Industy uses to buy and control the media...just like they buy and control our congressmen with 2 pharmaceutical lobbyists for every single congressman.
Big Pharma utilizes deception and fraud and has obtained control over the American population and our government with their immense financial power. Medical Mafia Money Talks, so that no matter how many times their frauds are exposed they continue to maintain their influence. There are lots of truthful negative statements that can be made about this Evil Empire, but Stupid they are not. They know exactly what they are doing and they have been extremely successful in deluding and controlling the public, the entire medical system, and our government. They had a brilliant plan when they lobbied (bribed) congress in 1986 to get the law passed that protected them from liability for deaths and damages causes by their vaccines, and they backed that plan up when they got the law passed which allowed them to advertise in the media. They are pretty damn smart aren't they?
And with all of their billions of dollars in profits behind them, our only hope is to educate ourselves in order to protect our own families, and educate others so that they may have the choice to see the truth and join us. Thank God for the Internet, however people need to realize that some of the most virulent "bloggers" and websites that promote their vaccines and other toxic drugs as "science based" are financially supported by Big Pharma. So when we are insulted by those who are unknowingly deceived, that is a sad story. But when we are insulted by those who are paid to spew out Big Pharma's propaganda, well there is a "special place in Hell" for those people. How these people can sleep at night is beyond my comprehension.
Posted by: Autism Grandma | November 21, 2009 at 11:37 AM
Big Pharma had been poisoning our children since the 1970s. You need to see the graphs
for autism,auto immune disorders,cancers,
alzheimers -and look at the rising immunization rate. The data shows abnormal increases.This is NOT genetical. It is a chemical warfare.Sickness is profitable,health is not.We need to focus our
energy to get scientist provide the knowledge/data/evidence etc.
to support the truth.Continue educate people.
Continue protecting your children,research everything,know the ingredients of the vaccines,question everything,do not trust pharma (and their fake studies). Try to
do everything in your power to stay healthy.
They will attack us, but they also know that
2-10% may suffer adverse effects(some many years later as the toxins bio-accumulate),
but they do not care,as there are too many of us.It is a very difficult situation,big
pharma wants to take total control of our health.We have to keep fighting.
Posted by: C. Professional | November 21, 2009 at 09:22 AM
"the anti-vaxx movement is anti-science.”
Best defence is attack, you couldn't find anything more anti-science than Allopathy, can only cure bacterial infections, and they have plenty of science (1,200 citations) 60 years old, to prove Vitamin C will cure all or most infections. Yet won't ever use it as it would bust vaccination and the drug companies.
Another in a long long list is psychiatry: “The time when psychiatrists considered that they could cure the mentally ill is gone. In the future the mentally ill have to learn to live with their illness.”----Norman Sartorius, president of the World Psychiatric Association (1996-1999), addressing the Association of European Psychiatrists Congress, 1994
Then numerous cancer cures over 100 years, Alzheimer's/Arthritis/Heart disease etc all ignored so the anti-science of allopathy can make it's money.
How is that for bad science.
They have been trying to link the term 'anti-vaccine' to someone who is insane or worse, simple propaganda technique called Word Game. That is why people want to avoid that label, but time to embrace it.
Vaccination is the biggest 'hoax' of all time.
Posted by: john | November 21, 2009 at 07:57 AM
I am angry at the names that people call us. There was a front page article in my hometown newspaper the other day about how "skeptics" are choosing to opt out of the H1N1 shot. The article itself wasn't so bad. It was the comments from some of the people afterwards that angered me. We are called un-educated..morons...stupid..ect.
There was even a comment about how we should be thrown in jail for endangering our children! Really?????
Do these people think that we all just woke up one day and said "Hey, I think I will become leary of vaccines??" Do they think we just want to hurt our children?
There was even a comment from someone who said that any of us who believe that we don't need a vaccine to help get rid of H1N1, might as well just put a crack pipe in our kids mouths!
Good God! I have become more educated in all of this than I had ever WANTED to be because of of my Grandson Isaac.
I am shaking right now thinking about how most parents just do what they are told.
I was one of those parents too. I NEVER questioned because I had no reason to.
Now I do..and..his name is Isaac.
Posted by: Isaacs Grandma | November 21, 2009 at 01:07 AM
Journalists are not free to take on this issue as long as advertising revenue pays their salaries. It is a fact of social behavior. You do the bidding of the one who feeds you. What network, including cable, does not owe a huge portion of their existence to Pharma? If journalists are to be free to flesh out this issue, they must first work for a network that takes zero Pharma money. First provide that framework, and then see if the journalists who want to make a name for themselves come forward
Posted by: Cynthia Cournoyer | November 20, 2009 at 11:36 PM
Great article, Marjorie. You've exposed the perverse cruelty of toxic people whose compassion has long been pushed out by self-absorption, smugness and paranoia.
Those vitriolic bloggers are channeling Sun Tzu and Schoepenhauer rather than Mother Teresa and Florence Nightingale. So why are they surprised when they're met with the inevitable resistance and disgust?
The CDC's deliberate ignoring of vaccine injuries runs counter to every platitude mouthed by agency defenders about protecting the public. Why is the hypocrisy seemingly visible only to families and friends of children and soldiers damaged by a public health policy whose results in other venues would be considered criminal?
Posted by: nhokkanen | November 20, 2009 at 10:45 PM
Scientific Link to Autism Identified
Posted by: Joan Campbell | November 20, 2009 at 08:29 PM
I meant patients not patience, but I am so mad and upset that I can no longer make a - hell I can't spell.All I want to do is stand here and yell out helllllll!
She says that the treatments for apsergers according to her frank doctor is zyloft for depression and rasipdol that too is Spelled wrong but don't worry I am sure by the time this is all over I can spell it just like I can spell Kappra, Lamcital, zonnegran, clonidine, list is toooo long and goes on and on. She says raspidol evens out the mood. She says that he will not have such mood swings like getting mad so easy. Well helll (sorry can't seem to stop, I should have never started)Maybe I need the %^&)(*)(@#!$%$%^ raspidol for myself instead of him . She called it a mood staberlizer, I told her when hellll freezes over(good gosh) I have cussed in front of my duaghter.. .
Posted by: Benedetta | November 20, 2009 at 06:54 PM
Just watched a NBC clip where a Dr. stated he never knows what form of H1N1 vaccine would be delivered to his office.
But he just told his patients that they should take whatever form he had on hand, which I am sure is being done all over the nation...
He said the risk of the flu was worse than the risk of the Thimerosal... Thank you again NBC
...another genius in a white coat saving American toddlers
Posted by: cmo | November 20, 2009 at 06:54 PM
Daughter works as a psych nurse so she knows doctors that might help my asperber son get SSI.
She gave me the number to the doctor who works at the psych hospital and specilized in aspergers. She said that he is orginally from the northeast, somewhere and he is from the old school. She slyly asked him what he thought, and found out he has been taught that vaccines do not cause the problem and even though he has been at this for years he still believes just that. So, she told me not to go off on my little rants and say that was what caused my son his problems. She said please do not bring this up - that she does beleive me and all. But I still need to be quiet about this.
Well she better believe me because she stands before me as a brilliant young lady, and yet she has a slight speech problem (slurrs her words at times) she almost died with Kawasakis (from a vaccine), recently as a Hep B she has an inflammatory disorde unspecified. Yet, she has to stand there and listen to this doctor. And the problem is compounded in that she likes this doctors. She says he is frank. Well I am too. And if someone is frank I can be frank right back.
My daughter says he is very good, really goes into depth with his patience.
How in the hell can he go into depth with his patience and not know
Posted by: Benedetta | November 20, 2009 at 06:43 PM
Excellent article! Placing blame on people who even DARE ask questions is an old tactic meant to quiet the masses. But it's losing it's effectiveness in this age of the internet. I always smile when I imagine how ticked off it must make those guys to realize that the info about vaccine risks are getting out anyway and people are not falling for their aggressive "my way or the highway" routine as much anymore.
Jim Carrey said it best when he told Larry King: "We are not the problem. The PROBLEM is the problem."
Posted by: Sylvia | November 20, 2009 at 05:51 PM
anti vaccine mom here...and loving the fact I am labeled such. I am as proud as that as, well, my children...and I am further chagrined we are on the topic again...that anti vaccine is a bad thing and oh so not politically correct. I found in my research, there is no value to vaccines...none...none of them have ameliorated, prevented, or stopped diseases. Our immune systems do that. Naturally. Not artificially. Artificially stopping diseases creates new ones...there is no winning this. And taking toxins out, will only make microorganisms GROW and thrive in the vial...so, if you want a potent or a non dud vaccine, you put it in there...and then you have the microcontaminaants like mycoplasma, retroviruses, etc...these are the worrysome creatures really. This can be passed down to your chilren, even more than the toxins in them. So, why do you all think a vaccine has any worth, especially after what it did to your children and mine? I just don't get it? Maybe I wear a tin hat, and am in LA LA land...but I can certainly see the science in this, and yet...we hope of hope feel, that vaccines still have value? That they are God's gift to mankind? That we place it on the alter of immaculate vaccination? Are we kidding ourselves? The whole idea is flawed. Numerous doctors who spoke out against them, were hit at the knees, taken away their liscences...etc. The medical mafia have the autism community over a barrel. The only thing that works now, is BOYCOTT the damn things...this is the only message they will listen to. Enlarge the philo exemptions...and let's get on with healing our children...
Posted by: Kathy Blanco | November 20, 2009 at 05:38 PM
I was called a "baby killer" to my face last year. A woman at the Netroots Nation Conference got right up into my personal space with her finger pointing in my face and said, "You are mischaracterizing this issue and YOU will cause children to die." My blood was boiling and I just sat there and took it, knowing full well that "our side" of the debate has more to lose than "their side." I channeled Ghandi and hoped that my military upbringing didn't take over my Ghandi instincts. (Military members are quite sensitive to being called "baby killers.")
Can you imagine what would have happened if the tables were turned?
Posted by: Becky Estepp | November 20, 2009 at 01:07 PM
They call you anti-vaccine and what not so that you have to defend yourself against that charge and they don't have to engage you in any real discussion of the issue.
Posted by: AnaB | November 20, 2009 at 12:45 PM
I do not have a child with autism but I do have one with sensory processing disorder, which is considered a sub category of spectrum disorders. My husband was injured by a vaccine as a baby and was on anti-seizure medicine until he was five AFTER he left the hospital. I delayed some of my son's vaccines because he had a medical problem we were trying to pinpoint and due to his dad's reaction. I wish pediatricians would help us look at the individual child instead of everyone being on the same schedule. As far as alternative medicine goes, I think both traditional and alternative therapies can work together to offer our children better care. We are trying BAX 3000 therapy for chronic conditions and allergies and it's being used for kids with spectrum disorders with great success. I feel like people who look down on someone for trying an alternative medicine have never been sick or ill enough to need to try it. A little understanding could go a long way. (If you are interested in reading about the therapy, you can go to www.biovedawellness.com).
Posted by: jenstate | November 20, 2009 at 12:40 PM
We cannot ever let anyone forget that it is the pharmaceutical companies that put neurotoxins in vaccines, and refuse to remove them, even though they know the carnage they have caused. They spoiled whatever good was in the vaccine program and they refuse to rectify it.
Name-calling shouldn't be directed at us.
Posted by: A Mom | November 20, 2009 at 12:39 PM
How the h*ll has this suceptible population phrase taken off. What is a "genetic predisposition to autism." Talking like this only means that the brainwashing of pharma's PR is working.
Posted by: Huh? | November 20, 2009 at 12:02 PM
just wrote a long response and it wouldn't go through but anyways, shortened version:
we really need to be emphasizing in our fight for vaccine safety that:
#1) herd immunity may not apply to vaccination (see Dr.Larry Palevsky). Holy cow!, so taking one for the herd and being socially-minded, though important, may not pertain to vaccination. WOW. That's huge.I mean will parents want to risk autism, seizures asthma for diseases that really aren't all that deadly, AND can't help to stop others from getting it anyways? I hope this gets more research/scrutiny because it's one of their bigger selling points of the "vaccines are great, now shut-up", side, or the hungry lie.
#2) was anyone else shocked by Hewitson's primate/neonatal responses/hep b (thim) study? And no, not shocked by the results because I think we all could have predicted that birth doses of hep b with thim showed problems with development, but shocked because the drug companies weren't doing that BEFORE giving it to babies!! An independent group had to do it.You could have knocked me over with a feather when I learned that!
Now, if I were a parent faced with making the decision about vaccination now, these would be watershed moments for me. I still vividly recall that American doctor talking about how chicken pox vaccine was just so great becasue then "parents won't have to take time off work." Nothing about safety of it and nothing about how chicken pox isn't a deadly disease.
Posted by: jen | November 20, 2009 at 11:55 AM
The "other side" presents their arguments with the arrogance of certainty, without the reasoned logic of observation and open-mindedness. Such arrogance exposes their intellectual immorality, that is, ignoring the science for the prupose of finding truth, and instead, using the science as weapon. Name calling? Labeling? Pretty soon, along with shame, that will be all they have left.
Posted by: Scott Bono | November 20, 2009 at 11:10 AM
Marjorie, how great to read you here at AoA. I am an old acquaintance from your Framingham, MA days — Spedpac and Autism Alliance MetroWest.
Loved your post, and now I'll be visiting your blog. Hope you and your family are well.
Posted by: Lisa Thompson | November 20, 2009 at 10:41 AM
Forgive me I'm still new at this... Every child that doesn't get shots raises the risk of other kids getting sick? How? I thought shot were so great you can't get that disease, foolproof! They don't evolve or adapt, the vaccine is always effective, ect. (And they call us anti-science!) Or do our shot free kids' immune systems jump out and attack other kids to make them "sick"? Do they have studies showing this? We have studies on our side. Just wondering...
Posted by: Teresa | November 20, 2009 at 10:19 AM
I gave up worrying about what other people think a long, long time ago. I have a recovered child now, thanks to the biomed community.
Others? They can call me any and every name in the book, I don't care one iota (although I really like "genuine asshat," I'm disappointed to see that particular attribute has been designated for J.B.).
Until the government and BigPharma come clean, admit their negligence and part in this travesty, allocate the funding for unbiased research, I will continue to be as anti-vaccine as I wanna be.
And, slowly but surely, the tide turns, as each and every one of my friends and acquaintances, and even some total strangers with open minds, are starting to ask the same questions. Apparently, the koolaid just isn't as strong as it used to be.
Posted by: BJ -- as anti-vaccine as I wanna be | November 20, 2009 at 10:05 AM
"The history of science is littered with accepted “facts” that actually were later proven false by other scientists. Our knowledge of the physical world builds upon itself. As more information is gathered and tested, established “facts” are discarded and new facts emerge."
Exactly right -- and something they conveniently forget every time they trot out the "anti-vaxers keep moving the goalposts" accusation.
Posted by: MB | November 20, 2009 at 10:00 AM
Angela, it seems that this flu shot was the final awakening for many people, just read the comments on the video I posted earlier. Here it is again:
Interesting that many of the commentators are from countries where autism parents don't get any media space at all, and autism-vaccine link is never discussed or mentioned in public. Their vaccine-awareness is not coming from "our side".
Posted by: Natasa | November 20, 2009 at 09:31 AM
Fine article Marjorie. Also, every now and then I stumble across articles on the web making lurid and obscene comments about myself. I am told, but have not had it confirmed, that the author is the girl-friend of prominent British politician!
Posted by: John Stone | November 20, 2009 at 09:28 AM
"Nutters" huh? They don't even know how nutty I really am. True, they are becoming more shrill and more panicked....
I wish we had a few more like Dr. Healy.
Posted by: Casey Ohlsson | November 20, 2009 at 09:20 AM
I love you Marjorie - you make me laugh when most of what I read makes me cry.
Posted by: Joanna | November 20, 2009 at 09:07 AM
Public "shaming" is a very powerful weapon and the vaccine propagandists know this.
What they can't accomplish legally, they achieve through the basic ignorance of most people, and "authoritative" shouting. When that doesn't work they turn to demonizing anyone who questions the Sacred Beliefs. The vaccine dogmatists truly could give the medieval Church a run for its money.
I don't care what anyone calls me anymore. By law and by basic constitutional principles, under most circumstances I have a choice when it comes to vaccines for my children.
The flu shot hysteria was the final straw for me. It is NOT the job of my children, or any other children, to protect OTHER people from an illness from which MOST people recover without any intervention (according to Anne Schuchat with the CDC during a live briefing that I heard myself).
Let's continue to speak out on behalf of CHOICE, and not be shamed by anyone. The burden of proof is not on us, imho.
Posted by: Angela | November 20, 2009 at 08:54 AM
Overall, I think the pro-vaccine camp are damaging their side by being so shrill...
Hey guys, calm down, take a deep breath...and look at the science, okay? But science can be a body of knowledge or it can be an idol to be worshiped--how about we throw a few more babies into the fiery furnace, okay?
Posted by: MinorityView | November 20, 2009 at 08:46 AM
thanks marjorie, you've captured the intellectual vacuity and casual viciousness of these folks beautifully. amy wallace's piece in wired is an example. it says that skipping shots -- presumably any shot, such as a mercury flu shot in pregnancy -- "engangers us all" -- a very serious charge. and then the blowback just stuns her. she was on npr recently speaking in the mellifluous, chummy sadder-but-wiser tone they tend to adopt, and saying that she's simply interested in a "civil" discussion without all the name-calling. puh-LEEZE! -- and thank god for bernadine healy, our guardian angel. -- dan olmsted
Posted by: dan olmsted | November 20, 2009 at 07:25 AM
More from the mad dangerous anti-vaxxer Polish Health Minister Ewa Kopacz
note the former Minister's attempt to #not scare people away from vaccines in general by questioning the safety of this one#
Ewa should be nominated for Nobel prize!
Posted by: Natasa | November 20, 2009 at 07:02 AM
I guess Polish Ministry of Health is run by anti-vaccine nutters? Mad mad mad dangerous people with no intelligence and only 100+ years amongst them of clinical experience, 1000+ hours in lab research, 100+ published peer review studies etc.
And their legal department, which as found no less that 20 (and counting) issues with manufacturer's swine vaccine contract, must be full of dangerous anti-law nutters.
Posted by: Natasa | November 20, 2009 at 06:46 AM