Thank you so much to Kelli Ann for the up-to-the-minute reporting on the questions and answers (and lack of answers) and other issues. It has to be a headache to put oneself on the line and come up against that brick wall over and over but this amply demonstrates the flaws in the process.

Ms. Davis,

The audio files for today's meetings should be available for posting by Monday, and the transcript will be placed in our Public Access Records Office (http://www8.nationalacademies.org/cp/ManageRequest.aspx?key=48905) when it becomes available in approximately 4 weeks.

I understand that Dr. Iskander will reply to your question in the next couple of days.

Thank you.

Alina Baciu

And my response back to the thread:

Alina,

Also been told that a few folks from our community are also recording this meeting via Real Player but of course, I'd appreciate a copy of the audio file as soon as possible.

Thanks,

Kelli

This current conversation is ridiculous. There is no way you can continue to keep "uptake" and "safety" under HHS, period. Pretending that NVPO won't be "calling the shots" and directing everything from the top is not realistic as indicated by NIMH Director Tom Insel during the January 14, 2008 IACC Meeting:

I think one thing that didn't get discussed when we voted on this is a problem that didn't occur to me until after the meeting, which is that this is perhaps the only issue that we dealt with that is now part of litigation that involves the department, and it's a HRSA issue and I'm concerned about the optics, so the optics of having HRSA vote on issues related to autism and vaccines when they have a large court case, the optics of having people who have, could be perceived to have, um, or to represent those with a financial investment in this issue. It takes it out of the realm of a scientific question, a research question, and it raises the possibility that some could see whatever comments we make as being biased by nonscientific issues, and I understand that's a risk in lots of things that we do, this one really feels, since this is a court case that is soon going to become public, and I think it's fairly close to a large omnibus effort, um, I think that this one really does represent some jeopardy for this process, for this committee, almost any way in which it comes out. If we say, yes we think it's important to look at this, and to provide additional information, it implies that we believe that there is a relationship between autism and vaccines, and it suggests, um, that, um, in some way this runs opposite to what HHS may define through the HRSA process. If we say we don't think that this needs to be pursued it opens us up to the possibility, at least the optics, that we were trying to keep HRSA from having to go down this road legally.

Seriously addressing this issue would call upon people to not lie about their products..how are you going to do that? Especially when their careers, jobs and reputations, and even jail time are on the line...get real people, there is no safe vaccine, that is the real issue. The only way we can overcharge this industry is to give the fright of their lives, and that is, that we are not beholden to their products, in any form, on any schedule, or any "so called" green vaccine. How do you make the viruses safe folks?

There is no incentive to tell the american people the real story. Stock holders perhaps need to be told the real story (did we ever think about that one?), shouldn't we be focusing on their reliances of a "good story" about vaccines/pharmacetuical products worth, OR NOT? Routinely, they lie about the side effects that are "tolerable" to risk? We are the tolerable, acceptible losses folks, get that in your heads, quick.

I don't put my stock holdings (the few that they are), in industries that harm our environment, sicken our children etc. That means I am not that wealthy, because of all the industries that does sicken people, pharma is number one, food corporations number two, and chemical and pesticide corporaitons number three.

Why aren't we focusing on the securities holders in these companies? Why don't we send them what they are promoting? An AUTISM EPIDEMIC, A SICKNESS and EUGENICS MOVEMENT? A picture of our children and the hell we have been through? After all, I don't think our government runs us, it is our multi national corporations (our founding fathers would be rocking in their graves).

Maybe then, when things start collapsing will the real truths be told. Of course, who am I to say that would ever happen (hell will freeze over). This industry is too enboldened/philosophised/mezmorised into human psyche by deliberate secretive constant lies, and cemented to political wranglings and underpinnings of national security,..let's get real... it won't ever be unraveled...and all the work we have done...will barely scratch the surface while we have a handful of children at home who are damaged. Don't you think THEY know we are caught up in the rush of autism? How that debilitates the family in general? That we don't have time to protest? That we don't have the resources? That we don't represent a majority voice or that our runs and walks are only blips on the scheme of things? That we have no way in heck, to sit in their financial board meetings to tell them they are no better than Herod of old?

I say, the only issue is our uncourageous stance that vaccines have value in our society. If you believe different, that is your right, but my right/science is equally as weighty if not proportionally true. I am sorry for our population, still thinking that someone, just someone will listen to us? The only thing they listen to is BOTTOM LNES and profit margins.

I guess I will be slammed for this, but you have a right to slam me for thinking my way...it is from years of experience with these people.

My Question on Panel 3 (where they are trying to pit the "parents" against the "scientists"):

Question: Do you consider Bernadine Healy a "lay person" when she says the proper safety studies haven't been done in regards to the link between autism and vaccines?

Bottom Line: We are NOT idiots because we are parents -- many of us have degrees in science, medicine -- and the message that there is somehow a "gut" vs. "science" argument going on is irresponsible and will do absolutely nothing in terms of seriously addressing this issue!

Kelli Ann Davis
DC Political Liaison
Generation Rescue

PS....This is NOT an "emotional" issue -- it is a "scientific" issue and needs to be addressed as one. Please stop pitting the "parents" against the "scientists"!!

I just sent the following e-mail to the President and Executive Director of the IOM with Kathleen Stratton and John Iskander carbon copied:

Drs. Fineberg and Salerno,

I've submitted this same question 3 times to the IOM Committee on the National Vaccine Plan to have answered and they've managed to "hedge and haw" around it without answering a basic, simple question:

How did Merck manage to access the VSD BEFORE getting the prior, proper approval?

I'd like Patricia Saddier (Merck) to explain how they did that since she originally brought it up during Panel Session 2.

Thank you for helping to get clarification on this question BEFORE this Committee adjourns for today.

Kelli Ann Davis
DC Political Liaison
Generation Rescue
Jenny McCarthy's Autism Organization

Amy,

The question was: HOW DID MERCK GET ACCESS TO THE VSD WITHOUT PRIOR APPROVAL?

Patricia said they were conducting the study with the VSD without permission and then had to stop because they didn't get it.

Please re-ask the question because this is not going to sit pretty with our community!

Thanks,

Kelli Ann Davis
DC Political Liaison
Generation Rescue

Patricia Saddier/Merck:

“Which signals deserve to be studied?....fishing expeditions…..large scale databases not large enough to look at rare adverse effects….VSD….started working with VSD on Rotavirus study before they got approval and then had to stop…"

I thought I was going to roll out of my chair!!! Merck used the VSD without prior approval!!!!

Yet, we get the 3rd degree on privacy issues.

Oh and Merck....EVERY signal deserves to be studied!!!!

Art (Chair of Panel 2) made a remark:

"Don ‘t know if we know about long-term safety of any vaccines”....

John Iskander -- CDC countered by stating:

"the state of science of vax safety continually improving” “overall better in terms of breathe of study and potential to do more studies” “at same time vaccines are different from drugs because of 'mandating' and they are “different medical products”

Excellent point Jack. My comment was probably too long but I had to comment on pediatrician education which is disgustingly inadequet. I couldn't believe the comment that they needed to be educated because they didn't know who Wakefield was! Basically they were saying they need to educate pedis in order to debunk Wakefield. That's their priority???? UMMMMM, how about educating them in recognition, and treatment?????!!!!