Best of A of A: Autism Explosion Followed Big Change in MMR Shot
Studying Vaccine Reactions in Fish? Ja. In Children? Nei.

Play The Age of Autism Irony Game!

Irony rustoleum Come one! Come all! Find the irony and win a prize! (To be determined at a later date. How do you feel about a box of GFCF cookies, mostly crumbled?)

There's an article in Pediatric News that is actually quite encouraging. It was sent to us by "a friend of ours who says, "The attached is an interesting column out today in the “Pediatric News” - promotes the concept of honest dialogue for pediatricians.  I don’t agree with all of it – but Dr. Barbara Howard is a major voice in the AAP, and it’s encouraging to see her stating things like:

“If the family has been traumatized by a diagnosis of autism that coincided with timing of the vaccine schedule, discuss the option of a customized vaccine schedule to avoid the peak diagnostic age for autism spectrum disorders.”

Now, click open the file HERE to see the article and then report in the comments section on the bitter lemon sucking, pickle juice puckering irony that you see. No cheating by peeking at the comments first! 

(And yes, you all nailed it. If it weren't so pathetic, it would be amusing, wouldn't it?)

Comments

Sarah Collins Honenberger

Truth in Vaccination, that's the goal. It's not that we disavow all vaccines for all people, it's that we want to know before we allow our children to drink the KoolAid what might happen, and we want to know the whole truth with percentages and possible interactions for the family history. Remember Agent Orange and the atom bomb, read WHITE LIES and spread the word. What arrogance for a specialist to tell a non-specialist (read Dr. Howard and parent with or without graduate degrees) that the doctor is the only one who can possible dictate what is best for someone else's child. Dr. Howard sounds like Captain Hook.

Agent Orange

My favorite is the almost throw-away line at the end.

"Sometimes the vaccine talk is your first window into anxiety in the family, or a sense that these parents consider their child particularly vulnerable to medical risks."

Doctor speak for "if the mother is concerned about the safety of vaccines, she is a crazy hypochondriac. Be sure to document your file accordingly."

steve

Josh that would be CHOP shop. I think we have a new term.

http://www.chop.edu/consumer/pat_care_fam_serv/staff_profile_page.jsp?id=20627&sid=26617

for Josh Day

Josh, you mentioned your frustration with your pediatrician. We take our toddler to a family practitioner, not a pediatrician. That's what my parents did for my brothers and me when we were kids. There are no absolutes, but our doctor is very flexible and understanding, and hasn't pushed us at all about vaccines. When we asked him about why pediatricians are so pushy, he said that family practitioners tend to focus on the child and the family in a more holistic way... I don't know, but it's working for us so far.

Josh Day

I've mentioned before how we don't plan on taking our healthy 2 year old to the pediatrician again. They're running a chop-shop... or a shot-shop... waiting for up to 2-3 hours, telling the nurse NO, we will not sign another refusal form, and thank you so much for giving us a poor copy that we can't even read, then an utterly useless "appointment" with the doctor to tell us stuff we already know and give us "information" on milestones and feeding produced by Gerber and the formula companies!

The only positive thing about all this is our ped. is decent and doesn't mess w/ us nor patronize or attempt to intimidate us.

We may well be forced to stick with her, but I really want to cut into their bottom line by being ONE LESS in their shot-shop warehouse. A decision made out of principle.

Articles like this only strengthen my resolve.

Why the HELL would I want to contribute to the pediatric industry's well-being when I could go to another M.D. without all this baggage? To a doctor who... get this... may actually treat us and our kids like fellow humans and... are you ready... show some empathy and appear to actually -- this is shocking, brace yourself -- CARE about our concerns and take a moment to get some family history?

There are doctors and nurses out there like that. I've met a lot of them. Even a fair amount who share similar concerns about vaccines and have experienced reactions leading to chronic conditions in either their children, relatives, or themselves. It's always a shock to me when they quietly say, "It's not a problem," or lower their voice even more and add, "I agree."

I would love to meet a pediatrician like that, but I doubt I ever will.

Talking down to parents, treating them like it's not possible they haven't taken a statistics course or jeez, I don't know, may actually have a bachelor of science and maybe even done their own university-level scientific research.

My god, who are these people?

I can tell you they are... they're the people who I definitely do not want around my son.

Some time ago a pediatric medical student, in residency I think, posted here. Carrie, her name was. There's one thing I take away in particular about the exchange:

She made the argument that essentially the expert is the final authority, and that by dabbling in the field of The Expert bad things will happen. She likened this to a car mechanic, saying how she didn't try to do the work herself but relied only on the expert, and thus so should we.

What an absolute disconnect from reality and plain old common sense... how many times have you been taken for a ride by your mechanic? Or they fixed the wrong thing, or they didn't fix or even find the problem at all?

"Oh, just leave the thinking and expertise to me in regards to the care of your child. What medical school did you go to? Do I come to your place of work and tell you how to do your job? Trust me, everything will be fine. Now that's $200 and the next well-baby visit is in four months."

rileysmom

UUGGGHHHHH ******Slap hand to forehead****** Is this lady for real? I did like the part where she pretty much said we parents don't have enough brain cells to rub together to make an intelligent analogy of the science of vaccines. Wow, I guess I wasted all that money in college when I had two majors...Biology and Chemistry. Good thing I came to my senses and decided to go into law instead because I honestly think THAT a degree in law will come in very handy in the NEAR future.

Julie Swenson

"P.S. According to the CDC's schedule, the rotavirus vaccine is supposed to be given at age 2, 4, and 6 months. At such a young age, how would anyone know whether the baby has any of the conditions which are listed as making this vaccine potentially unsafe?"

Twyla, I honestly think that it is to simply find another way to blame the babies' 'faulty' genes and give the vaccine-makers yet another 'out'..after all, NOW they are warning us, so it's our turn to react, to somehow get our newborns tested for these conditions and if we vaccinate before doing so, and they get sick, die, become autistic, have life-threatening asthma later in life, whole-body, bleeding eczema, etc....well, hell....it's not the vaccine's fault now is it? I mean, they DID warn us, right? ;o) Another way to blame us, the parents, for getting our genetically-faulty kids those 'perfect, herd-protecting' shots when our kids were clearly imperfect to begin with.

I have now seen at least 3 vaccine ads on TV in the last month that now state directly in the ad that certain people with these (lists of conditions) should not take (insert new, poorly-tested vaccine here).

GrammaKnows

"Anyone who reads a newspaper or watches CNN knows that a number of very famous medical specialists have been investigated of late for conducting research studies without revealing that they were being paid by the pharmaceutical companies that stood to gain from positive results."

...as we read an article that would not see the light of day were it not for the ads surrounding it, paid by the pharmaceutical companies that stand to gain from positive results of having that ad seen by a captive audience.

"So let’s step back and think about why.
For starters, people aren’t very trusting
of anyone in authority anymore."

...too bad Dr Howard is under the impression that she, or her collegues has any authority at all. FYI, Dr Howard, you are our employees, not our superiors. We choose not to hire you or your collegues because of all the "we don't knows" that follow in your article...

"we still can’t fully explain to parents or even ourselves why rates of autism are increasing at such a rapid clip."

"even doctors, are not particularly good at making decisions when we’re given information in SAT-like formulas."

"Our profession has told them to eat margarine—no, make that butter! And no fats—well, just avocados and nuts!"

(That actually wasn't clinicians, it was nutritionists that tell you to say it, and you do, without ever understanding why and applying those SAT-like formulas...you look stupid when you parrot information without knowing if it is true whether it is margarine or vaccines)

"we must admit to ourselves that we have a covert agenda when it comes to vaccines."

Forget trying to sell the greater good stuff - if you believed the greater good stuff, you would lobby for free healthcare in exchange for a reasonable yearly salary. This isn't about greater good, it's about making the quotas to get the financial incentives...try admitting that to yourselves - publicly.

And the biggest indicator of don't know...
"Sometimes the vaccine talk is your first window into anxiety in the family, or a sense that these parents consider their child particularly vulnerable to medical risks."

Any doctor who does not have the time, inclination or willingness to know a patient's medical history, risks and concerns needs to find another livlihood. It should not be the parent expressing concern or rejection of a product or service based on knowledge the physician does not have...it should be the physician "doing our homework, being respectful, listening and finding out" what the parent knows that you don't.

So Dr Howard - that's why we not only don't trust your profession - we choose not to hire employees we can't trust, no matter what story they give to justify their untrustworthiness.

Benedetta Stilwell

You go guys! I have been at it for 28 years now. My daughter had Kawasaki at two years old, shortly after a DPT shot. She then reacted to her last DPT shot at age five with 105 fever and passing out. My son reacted to his second DPT shot and after being bullied by his peditrician, I allowed him to have a third DPT shot.Now they are trying to be nice about it, I am so sorry. Any way my son reacted to his third DPT shot six hours later and now he has autism and epilepsy. I am on my third try for SSI,I have been informed that the government no longer just gives autistic people SSI automatcally like they use to. Getting to be to many of us I guess. My husband kept getting tetantus shots every time his work place gave them out,and every time he had an accident. When he was 28 years old he finally reacted to one and passed out. At age 34 he stepped on a nail,and the doctor gave him another one! AFTER much suffering he was dignosed with a mitochondia disease. I actually spoke on the phone to the then secretary of health. In those days the internet was not so crowded and I reached her by that way first. She gave me her number by email,and I called her. She said, she guessed they would be hearing from me. (I not sure what she meant) since I could find no lawyer at the time to represent me. Over the years I have prayed to God to help my family, but sometimes I pray to God to smite and curse them all, including my children's pediticians.

jen

wow, Sorsha and Erika, your comments really hit me. Maybe the "blood/brain barrier" issue may not be as big as I thought(as far as explaining why a lot of kids regress around 18 months or two years after their shots). After developing normally up to that late age, did the doctors/professionals believe you as to the vaccines being the cause? I bet you're right about there being a lot more kids who will be diagnosed at later ages, like your kids.
I was so disheartened to know that B.C. (Canada) is initiating the new "6 in 1" called infanrix hexa, or some damned thing. It includes hep b. One person commented that they got an "invitation" to be among the first new parents to try it, like it was some sort of f'g face cream. They also mentioned that they didn't have many native families and that they would love them to volunteer for this. Creepy! Like they would be doing some wonderful service for everyone by volunteering. Makes me sick...

Lisa

I found it very interesting at the recent NVAC meeting (I was in group 1 breakout) that a CDC official was criticizing the AAP for listening to parents, and 'giving in' to requests for a staggered vaccine schedule. She went on to say that there have been no safety studies on a customized, or staggered vaccine schedule, and this is dangerous practice. She reassured the audience that there have been many safety studies showing the entire CDC childhood vaccine schedule, when administered according to the protocol, is safe and effective. Of course, there was a backlash from parents. I could not believe what I was hearing...CDC attacking AAP for listening to parents! In defense of some pediatricians, there are more that have serious vaccine safety questions than ever before. They are asking more questions and as they too have children diagnosed with autism...they are coming into our world.
Of course, I still have Ari Brown in my town :(

Kristen

LOL. If it wasn't so serious and REAL, it would be a hilarious joke. I am friends and relative with many doctors who I'm sure don't remember all that immunology, micro, etc.... Do you think primary care peds use that stuff enough to remember it? NO. They look in ears all day and provide "anticipatory guidance" and "patient/parent reassurance".

ObjectiveAutismDad

Barf! I gave up after the first few sentences. 35 pages for the parents and 1 regarding liability for the Doctors!?!?!?

Jenny W

I wanted to add, that my letter will include this, among other things:

Dear Dr. Smug Condescender,

I have studied microbiology,
immunology, physiology, and metabolism,
not to mention statistics. The funny thing is, apparently I was paying attention in class --you on the other hand remind me of the classic joke, "What do call the person who graduated at the bottom of their medical school class? Dr. Howard"

Whatever happened to these greatest hits:
--you cannot prove anything in science you can only disprove it.
--when you can't disprove something, and all the clinical evidence shows otherwise you are on to something.
--biological plausibility is key.
AND my favorite from all my stats classes... if you do not get the result you want just tweak the margin of error!!

Anyway, something along this tone, I will send it tomorrow when I no longer feel the need to add, "You forgot to mention that you shouldn't treat us like fucking morons, b/c chances are we are smarter than you."

Gatogorra

Dr. Howard suffers from Boughtism.

Like someone else mentioned, having to read around the Rotateq ad takes the cake and says it all.

Jenny W

I am guessing you are refering to the giant rotateq ad?

Sorsha

Erika - thank you for saying that. My son is in that category - no live vaccines until after 3 years old - then autistic after the kindergarten round of shots at 5. NO 'brain development' timing with vaccines for him...just terrible and clear vaccine reaction. Its awful to say - but this will become EVER more apparent as more and more parents delay vaccines but still end up with autistic (vaccine damaged) kids.

Erika

What this woman does not realize is the amount of kids out there that are developing autism at an older age!

In what world is she living?

The place where my son is receiving treatment has several children that developed autism after the age of 4.
Some of them delayed the shots or did not have any until they were 3, and once they were given, Boom! they developed autism.

Some other kids in the same place, after being fully vaccinated and being neuro typical, they developed autism when they received their 4 year old round of shots (in some states is 5 years old) and voila! they have autism now.

This is reality, WE NEED TO WAKE UP!

For some kids is OK is you spread the schedule or delayed it, but some other ones do not need any shots at all! Their bodies cannot handle it.

We need a personalized vaccination schedule and green vaccines for every child. As hard as that sounds, is the only answer. Period.

supriya

I really don't believe its about the herd anymore. At one point , I thought that maybe all the peds were brainwashed and indoctrined to thinking that this could be the only way it is...hello 2006, new vax introduced- now each and every child born in or after 2006 MUST get it or DIE.
It defies logic and makes no sense to me why my poor child has to suffer more than children born years earlier and did not get the vaccine and did just fine but now he's a threat to the herd and "causing POLIO to make a comeback" because I'm not comfortable giving him a new vax.
There's no logic - the doctors want gratitude (and my money) while they shoot up and potentially injure my child with their "ALL vaccines are safe and ALL children are the same "school of medicine. If my child is harmed, the problem must somehow be my defective child.....
Every mother of every unvaxxed child will tell you that we almost never need to see the doctor for anything - my baby was born in July 2008 and has'nt even had a sniffle to date- something I doubt would have happened if he recieved 16 or is it 18 shots of vaccines as per the schedule required.
The point that is becoming clearer to me ( and I think all mothers of unvaxxed children) is this vaccine schedule is the only thing keeping them (the peds)from not having a job. Line the babies up, shoot them up quickly before they can speak or tell parents about reactions, ensure they fall sick regularly and keep coming back to the peds to treat the very illnesses they created a window of oppurtunity for in our defenseless babies in the first place. The more people reject their vaccine schedule, the healthier the population will be and they will be out of a job....

kathleen

Wow, Kelli, do you ever have sarcasm down to an art form!
Love your number 5. I wish that all docs would put off the MMR until after the "peak" autism diagnosis age...that would be it's own kind of "study". I have no doubt that the peak autism diagnosis age would shift....no doubt at all.

Kelli Ann Davis -- On Irony, BS, Pisses Me Off, and I Want Mega Goldstars....

Okay. And this lady works for Johns Hopkins?

1. “It’s comprehensive, and—at 35 pages—perhaps a tad overwhelming for the typical mom or dad balancing work, budget woes, meal planning, day care, a cranky baby, and, invariably, the broken washing machine or sick dog.”

Irony: Hey Barb, try living that 24/7 for the rest of your life. Heck, I would have read that puppy a 100 times over if it would have saved my son from “autism”.

2. “….timing of vaccines and developmental reorganization of the brain;….. we still can’t fully explain to parents or even ourselves why rates of autism are increasing at such a rapid clip.”

Irony: Can you say, “Connect-the-dots?” Gee Barb. Wonder if mercury, aluminum, viruses, rec’ing 9 vaccines in one visit might have something to do with “answering” the million-dollar-question that you’re so puzzled about??

3. “What it all means is that there are a great many doubts and unspoken agendas, on both sides, before a mother or father ever expresses the slightest concern about how vaccinations might affect their child.”

BS/Pisses Me Off Response: Ahhh, Barb? The ONLY agenda I have is to 1) make sure NO other child/family has to EVER live with “autism” and THAT means making sure parents hear the current vaccine schedule has never been tested for safety and it’s basically a “crap shoot” and 2) make sure my son is taken care of. I’ll pit that against your “covert agenda” any day of the week!!!

4. “It means listening. Find out why they’re skeptical.”

Irony: And then she quickly dismisses it by saying, “If their concerns are based on faulty logic or scientific confusion, remember that their theory could make perfect sense if you hadn’t studied microbiology, immunology, physiology, and metabolism, not to mention statistics.”

Another BS/Pisses Me Off Response/TRANSLATION: If-they-question-vaccine-safety-in-any-way-shape-or-form-they-are-illogical-but-we-can’t-blame-them-because-after-all-they-don’t-have-MD-behind-their-names-and-therefore-they-can’t-possibly-read-a-scientific-study-on-their-own.


5. “If the family has been traumatized by a diagnosis of autism that coincided with timing of the vaccine schedule, discuss the option of a customized vaccine schedule to avoid the peak diagnostic age for autism spectrum disorders.”

Freudian Slip Statement or If You Remember Anything From This Lame Article Remember This Response: Maybe vaccines DO cause autism.

Okay, that's 5 (count 'em) 5 Mega Goldstars!!

steve

Hi Dr, Howard,

You said:
"Are we really prepared to tell Mr. and Mrs. Johnson that we do care about Susan, but we also have an obligation and a responsibility to consider societal ben-efits and risks in an ever-increasing ripple effect from our office door to the neighborhood, the community, the state, the nation, and the world?"

Please compare your line of thinking to the matching concept found in the dictionary:

"Fascism is a radical, authoritarian nationalist ideology focused on solving economic, political, and social problems that its supporters see as causing national decline or decadence. Fascists aim to create a single-party state in which the government is led by a dictator who seeks unity by requiring individuals to subordinate self-interest to the collective interest of the nation or a race."

And then go screw yourself.

nhokkanen

Note to Barbara Howard, M.D.:
Parents don't need patronizing patter.
Their children need lab tests.

Biopsies. Bloodwork.
Microbiology, immunology, physiology, metabolism.
F*** the statistics.

If our kids' vaccine injuries could be treated by flaky psych-speak, we'd park them in front of the TV to watch Dr. Phil.

Good God.

Marni

This article is simply a course in Manipulation 101, which of course what most of the Doctors need because they lack an EQ.

It's teaching Offit-ites to put on a Prince Charming/Princess mask when they speak to the common folk, the stupid ignorant people.

It was more honest for them to be openly bullying, coercive and arrogant, as they have been until now.

How about they put MORE ENERGY into actually prioritizing the proper research (as proposed and since rejected by the IACC) and LESS ENERGY into an elaborate act to appear to be less one-sided about vaccine safety issues?

What's that saying about lipstick on a pig?

Theresa

That is really depressing--the Rotateq ad, and the tone of Dr. Howard's entire op-ed piece.
What bothers me (more than the Rotateq ad? hard to say) is that Dr. Howard is completely wrong when she implies that doctors understand the statistics behind children's risks of catching diseases, and parents don't. In fact, the exact opposite is true in the case of parents who want to refuse or delay vaccination.
For example, Hepatitis B has a near-zero rate of infection for individuals who are not sexually active and do not use intravenous drugs. There is no reason for a child born to a Hep B-negative mother to receive the Hep B vaccine--no reason, of course, except Dr. Howard's admitted secret agenda: protecting those in the "herd" who are difficult to reach with a vaccine (prostitutes, IV drug users, etc.). Doctors use scare tactics, like focusing on the possible consequences (like death) of Hep B infection, while spending absolutely zero time on the "SAT-like formulas" that would let a parent know that Hep B is, quite simply, not a risk for her infant or small child.
Let's think of another one--how about HPV? The number one killer of women is still heart disease, so if doctors were really any good at math, they'd be focusing on a heart-healthy diet and exercise regimen for female patients, rather than trying to ring the register with three doses of Gardasil. Or perhaps we should ask Dr. Howard if she has an SAT-like formula for calculating the odds that a girl will contract HIV, gonorrhea, or syphilis when having unprotected sex because she has been falsely led to believe that she's protected because she has been vaccinated against HPV. What are the odds of that girl getting pregnant? (If she's having unprotected sex, the odds are roughly 1 in 4--far higher than the odds of a woman developing cervical cancer, which had an incidence rate of 7 cases per 100,000 US population in 2004.)
Then we have Dr. Howard's implication that the very real incidence of autism (1 in 150, at least, which parents see in their own neighborhoods and schools) is somehow not as much of a threat as the chickenpox, which has not in the last 40 years killed more than 150 people in a single year. (Compare: 1 in 150 vs. 150 in 280,000,000 ... which is a more frequent occurrence?) Here is a case in which numbers are available, and are easily interpretable. Does a mom want to protect her kid from autism or a seizure disorder (like Ben Zeller: http://theresma.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!80EE15D075B65A13!871.entry), or does she want to protect the 150 people (who are not her child) who might have chickenpox-related complications in any given year? That math seems pretty easy to do.
But hey, I got a perfect score on the SAT, so maybe I really am better at math than Dr. Howard is.

Carolyn M.

That article appears to have a split-personality. Pharma information prominently displayed on both pages (Rotateq- even when Offit is not quoted he's there - and allergy medication ad) and yet the statement that the medical profession has been too closely tied to studies for medications that were biased toward Pharma. It stated that they need to listen to us, but apparently that was only so that they could convince us to vaccinate. I'm sure that if we were to point out the flaws in the studies supposedly "proving" the safety of vaccines, and then point out the studies that support our position that we would be shown the door before we could finish the conversation.

I also noted the condescending attitude: we are all still uneducated, probably somewhat below average intelligence, people who have little to no analytical ability. We are also, in their view, too young to have seen any of the diseases for which they vaccinate (and apparently do not have relatives who have seen them either). What a list of grossly flawed assumptions.

I apologize if this is too repetitive of what the rest of you have already said, but per instructions I have not yet read the comments.

Randy

"Does he "count" as an intelligent being? "

Good point - the article adds a bit of hypocrisy, to garnish the irony

He does count if he is an unquestioning proponent and toes the line. If he steps outside the box (as Dr Poling has) then he's just another MD "technician", a "non-scientist", straying beyond the boundaries of his limited area of expertise - the "superior intellects" (those who want to do all the thinking for us) would place him in the latter category by virtue of his actions, not his intelligence.

Angie

Wow-E-Wow! I agree with everyone's postings so far, and even though I have SO much more to say, I have to make it brief, see my 2 sons accidently ate a chez-it cracker the other day and ithey have been miserable and suffering since, so no time for me to list all of the ironies in that article, other than saying the entire thing is..and this:
I TOTALLY trust the weatherman here more than the AAP/most doc's out there who follow them, mainly because, the weatherman IS wrong half of the time, but at least when its snowing outside he acknowledges it IS snowing outside, and doesn't try to cover it up with 'word play' or things like 'oh we have no idea what this is or what could have possibly caused this'..argh!
Angie
Mom to Ethan, Alex, and Megan

Angela

"Why don’t parents just want what’s
best for their children? Why don’t they trust me when I tell them, “The vaccines are worth the risk"

We do want what's best...autism by far isn't "the best". Most peds use scare tactics. It's unfortunate that they won't consider that parents *can* make educated decisions to not vaccinate.

kathleen

"If their concerns are based on faulty logic or scientific confusion, remember that their theory could make perfect sense if you hadn’t studied microbiology, immunology, physiology, and metabolism, not to mention statistics."

What an absolutley infuriating comment. Well, seeing that I have only taken half the courses listed, I know my opinion is worthless LOL. How about Dr Poling, is he, too, ignorant of the vast knowledge that pediatricians hold that no other being is privy to? Is his opinion lumped in with the uninformed, or the ill-informed? Does he "count" as an intelligent being?

Big whoop

Dr. Barbara Howard, of all the crap that is sent our way, you take the cake! Icing and all.

Twyla

P.S. According to the CDC's schedule, the rotavirus vaccine is supposed to be given at age 2, 4, and 6 months. At such a young age, how would anyone know whether the baby has any of the conditions which are listed as making this vaccine potentially unsafe?

Twyla

Yeah, as others have ponted out, this statement really takes the cake: "If their concerns are based on faulty logic or scientific confusion, remember that their theory could make perfect sense if you hadn’t studied microbiology, immunology, physiology, and metabolism, not to mention statistics." Especially in the context of:

- So many parental reports of taking their kids from one doctor to another and receiving no help with or insight into immune system dysregulation (allergies, inflammation, IBD...), microbe overgrowth (yeast, viruses, chlostrida...), or metabolic disorders -- until they start networking with other parents, reading books written by parents (or a grandmother), and/or seeing the few doctors who are treating medical issues in children with autism (many of whom are also parents, or grandmother...) and

- the complete ignoring by mainstream medicine and gov't agencies of the impact of our vaccine schedule on "microbiology, immunology, physiology, and metabolism" including the refusal (as described by Dr. Bernardine Healy and Sharyl Attkisson) to study the injured children.

This quote is also terribly ironic: "meaningful give-and-take discussions about statistics and science" as the entire article seems to be founded on the assumptions that:

- Parents have no valid reasons for concern.

- Parents are ignorant and don't understand medicine or science.

- If you just pretend to listen, parents will feel better about giving their children all the vaccines which of course you as a doctor know they should receive.

Where is the give and take? The doctor is not even considering that there may be valid concerns.

And the Rotateq info is tied for taking the cake!

kathleen

Irony? How about trying to read around and ad for Rotateq wile trying to erad the article. The parents get 35 pages and the doctor gets one and that ONE is about not being liable for damage.
It's ironic how on one hand the author supports the fact that there are lots of reasons for parents not to be trustworthy, and includes in that big pharma paying for studies, but somehow finds the studies that show no connection between vaccines and autism..."in spite of the abundance of research disputing..." OKAY???

#1 to me:

"Are we really prepared to tell Mr. and Mrs. Johnson that we do care about Susan, but we also have AN OBLIGATION AND RESPONSIBILITY TO CONSIDER SOCIETAL BENEFITS AND RISKS in an ever increasing ripple effect from our office door to the neighborhood, the community, the state, the nation, and the world."

UMMM NOOOOOO...you did not take an oath to protect the world...you took and oath to protect and individual patient!!! My son...you took an oath to protect my son.

*^%$^%*(&*&*(^&!!!!!!

Teresa  Conrick- AAP do  you have any morals?

I agree completely with everyone's posts and just want to add this quote:


"Sometimes the vaccine talk is your
first window into anxiety in the family,
or a sense that these parents consider their child particularly vulnerable to medical
risks."

OK and what then? I have seen so many posts from parents on the yahoo groups that have done this very thing -- ask their doctor about their concerns with egg allergies, having a fever at the time of vaccination, other siblings past adverse reaction, the child's GI issues since last vaccination, etc etc and a general feeling that something is not right so you ask, you question.

The whole purpose of this pamphlet is the art of bullshitting (again, good word, Mark!). The above quote here once more: "a sense that these parents consider their child particularly vulnerable to medical
risks" is never addressed in a true sense. There is no mention of mitochondria testing though it is now known that Hannah Poling was shown to have it and descend into autism as a result of her vaccinations (and now ADEM, as well) These doctors do not appear to have a desire to discuss TRUE medical implications but more BULLSHIT their way into stopping that discussion.

These folks from AAP are your neighborhood used car salesmen and we all just read their most recent customer relations tactic -- SMILE and SELL!

Randy

just off the top of my head:

1) there's hardly room to squeeze this article in around the RotaTeq and Patanase ads

2) 35 pages of parent-focused propoganda, but for physicians - a one page legal disclaimer - "it lets you know that you’re not liable for any problems in a child whose parents have refused vaccination, so long as you document their refusal."

3) "Is it just me, or is there a disconnect
here?" - wtf..?

here's an idea - hand a copy of the 1-page legal disclaimer to parents, along with the RotaTeq ad, and then give them some time to digest that...

Maurine Meleck

For me, nauseatingly patronizing. Just a different approach to get parents' agreement to vaccinate. And why not? The other approaches aren't working so well these days.
They try to make the parents feel they have
a seat at the table.
PS I trust the weatherperson more too, even if they say tomorrow 70 and sunny and it happens to snow.
maurine

Jeanne

I'll tell you what I think (even though Laura has already won the cookies)...

First of all, it took me almost an hour to read the entire article because I had to stop every 5 minutes to tend to my son - you know, the son who was damaged by his vaccines and now suffers from endless medical issues.

Second, the article sounds like a page out of the black widow's handbook - "lure them in... get them to trust you by lying and patting their poor, sorry, stupid little shoulders... then get 'em!...and by the way, if you follow my instructions and you do this right, those stupid parents will hold the kid down for you!"

Third, why is it "acceptable practice" to say, "this vaccine might kill your child;" but, "this vaccine might cause autism" is a no-no. That's just too damned funny to me. And I don't mean funny ha-ha.

And in regards to the foul language... yeah, we autism parents sure do know how to cuss (I wonder why we would be so frustrated and angry?). Hey, maybe CDC/AAP will coordinate a study trying to prove foul language causes autism.

(((primal scream)))

autismdoctor

Dr. Howard,

Recall this statement upon graduation from medical school: "I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone." (translation Hippocrates)

My question to any pediatrician: How many healthy children is it acceptable for you to maim or kill for the good of the herd?? 1 in a million, 1 in 100,000, 1 in 150??

Nowhere in medical ethics (or any professional ethics code for that matter since the client pays your salary) is it acceptable for a physician to do harm to their patient for the good of the "herd." This work must been left public health authorities, not real doctors.

The Rotateq ad beneath your picture is a nice touch to explain where AAPs bread is buttered. Thank-you for your clarity explained how the field of pediatrics has lost its way.

Regards,

Doctor and parent of autism child

jruch

(Cookies for you! KIM)

Could it be statements like -
“If their concerns are based on faulty
logic or scientific confusion, remember
that their theory could make perfect
sense if you hadn’t studied microbiology,
immunology, physiology, and metabolism,
not to mention statistics.”

Yet the article is wrapped around a tome of Rotateq safety gaps?


Here are a few out of sample quotes. I had to stop after a while.

No safety or efficacy data are available for the administration of RotaTeq to infants who are potentially immunocompromised...

There are insufficient data from the clinical trials to support administration of RotaTeq to infants with
indeterminate HIV status...

No data are available regarding potential vaccine virus transmission...

No safety or efficacy data are available for administration of RotaTeq to infants with a history of gastrointestinal disorders...

Caution is advised when considering whether to administer RotaTeq to individuals with immunodeficient close contacts...


"In clinical trials, RotaTeq was administered concomitantly with
diphtheria and tetanus toxoids and acellular pertussis (DTaP), inactivated poliovirus vaccine (IPV), H. influenzae
type b conjugate (Hib), hepatitis B vaccine, and pneumococcal conjugate vaccine [see CLINICAL STUDIES]."

What the heck was the placebogroup take? All of the above plus an inert crushed glass tablet?

Diane Frioni

I know people don't appreciate swearing here, so I'll abbreviate. WTF? The weatherman is an authority figure? Actually I do respect the weatherman more than the pompous immunology, physiology, metabolism, statistic studying pediatrician who is taught to PRETEND to give a "crap" about their patients, but first and foremost, they must protect the herd. Wow, all our suspicions about the uncaring AAP right there in black and white.

Laura

(Managing Editor's addition: You've won the cookies! But it was the predeccesor to Offit's product that was pulled, not Offit's. Offit's is alive and well and on the AAP schedule. I want us to be clear on that. KIM)

I appreciated her willingness to sort of, kind of try to see things from the point of the poor, misunderstood and misinformed parent. It is a step in the right direction as far as having parents and their children's doctors work as a team in making the best health choices for the child.

The irony, part 1: would it be the HUGE ad from Merck for Offit's RotaTeq? The vaccine that was initially yanked for the disastrous and dangerous effects it had on children before being revamped to not hurt as many kids in such an obvious way? And interesting side note for me, after reading through the ironically placed ad, I discover that the RotaTeq vaccine safety trials did not give off enough data to say whether or not there were problems when giving the RotaTeq vaccine with the Pertussis part of the DTaP given often at the same time to a child. Vaccines are perfectly safe though, because some studies say parts of a vaccine are safe when combined with other parts of a different vaccine sometimes.

The irony, part 2, at least for me:
"If their concerns are based on faulty
logic or scientific confusion, remember
that their theory could make perfect
sense if you hadn’t studied microbiology,
immunology, physiology, and metabolism,
not to mention statistics."

Aside from the patronizing tone, as if all parents were mindless drones that hadn't themselves studied any of these subjects or had a lick of common sense to read up on them without going to med school...I love how doctors are assumed, pediatricians at least, to know all the intricacies and complicated science behind immunology, metabolics and physiology and yet my four year old daughter has spent years undiagnosed from problems that started at ten days old (ironically, immediately following her Hep B vaccine) and doctors shrug their shoulders at me on a very regular basis. FINALLY, she's been diagnosed with mitochondrial disease and FINALLY, a pediatrician is uncomfortable vaccinating her based on her prior reactions. But we have seen no less then ten regular, general pediatricians who supposedly knew all the detailed science behind how completely safe vaccines are (but I still have to sign a form releasing them from any harm vaccines might do to my child and accept that responsibility as my own) but yet these same pediatricians could not think for the life of them what might be causing my daughter to be so sick.

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