The genetic/Darwinian arguments are always fun.

I personally blame the feminist movement for allowing an environment for weak men to flourish. We now have men who are too weak to oppose societal pressure and go for their instincts instead (go for the curves). Instead men are going after women for their brains and personality. Hey maybe there is even a link between autism and homosexuality. Now, I have proof that we were better off when men just went for the boobs.

It could also be religions’ fault for also producing a good environment for men who don’t give into their basic instincts.

Ahhh, the implications are endless

Thanks to John Stone for posting that abstract. Here is a related news story:
"A pre-natal test for autism moved a step closer yesterday with the announcement by scientists at the University of Cambridge that high levels of the male hormone testosterone in the amniotic fluid surrounding the foetus in the womb may serve as an early warning signal of the condition."

The article focuses on the ethical questions raised by pre-natal testing for autism.

http://www.independent.co.uk/extras/big-question/the-big-question-should-mothers-be-offered-screening-for-autism-and-what-issues-would-it-raise-1332040.html

Oh yes, b/c those of you who know me know how stick skinny I am... (I just rolled my eyes so hard they fell out of my head).

Back when I was in the Army (when I got PG with my autistic son) they always had to special tailor my uniforms... the waist had to be take in two sizes from the hips. And my boobs are ginormous.

SO TAKE THAT!

What a seriously bizarre study.

I don't think anyone has posted it, so here is the abstract for the study:

"A Preliminary Investigation into the Potential Role of Waist Hip Ratio (WHR) Preference within the Assortative Mating Hypothesis of Autistic Spectrum Disorders.

Brosnan M, Walker I.

J Autism Dev Disord. 2009 Jan;39(1):164-71. Epub 2008 Jul 4.

"Of particular interest to studying the etiology of Autistic Spectrum Disorders (ASDs) is the potential for multiple risk factors to combine through non-random mechanisms-assortative mating. Both genetic influences and a high-testosterone prenatal environment have been implicated in the etiology of ASDs, and given that waist-hip ratio (WHR) is indicative of a woman's circulating testosterone level, a man attracted to higher-than-average WHR women is likely to have a higher-than-average prenatal testosterone exposure for their offspring. We show that whereas fathers of children without ASD show a statistically reliable preference for WHRs at the low end of the normal range, indicative of women with low testosterone levels, fathers of children diagnosed with ASD do not consistently show this preference."

On a slightly more sober note, may I suggest that a major confounder would be electing to take part in the study.

Kelli,

Of course, REAL men know that women rule. And if you're implying that I drool over big hoo-ha's and Pamela Anderson's in particular....nah...I'm a fan of bottoms :P

Besides I like natural women. Pamela looks too much like an anatomically correct Barbie Doll for my tastes.....

And, I started the Real Men's club to disassociate us from the scum like Offit, Bush, Reibel, Gorski, Tayloe, etc etc. If they are considered to be men, they give the rest of us the worst possible name in the book. So, we be REAL men!

Dont have time to finish this, but at least I can start it:
ODE TO THE AUTISM GENE
My research showed that the hungry should eat
Then I progressed to a truly great feat.
Finding the autism gene is really fantastic!
But louts at AOA were so mean and sarcastic...

Kelli Anne,
What??? A Pen?? We got real boobies with this study!

"Randy and all autism dads who read this blog without trolling it are invited. We be REAL men!!"

Oh, yeah, baby! - doin' the happy dance around living room right now...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7EcKWzg5_s

Craig - the Julie Gerberding thing knocked my off my chair :-)

I wonder when they will do a study on men
who have three nipples and also have an
austistic child?

When they do announce the study - please send the money for the research instead to AOA to give out to parents
who need it to help heal their autistic children.

Thanks for all the posts that made me laugh
but these boobie reseachers drive me mad.

Maybe dads of kids with autism are just too busy supporting their wives to give a damn about their boobs! Oh, no that can't be because my husband is very supportive and he likes my (larger than I would like) boobs! What monumental insanity!

Julie Obradovic, you are a genius. Thanks a lot for the laugh. I needed it.

I wonder how many times Orac and his crowd took that online survey?

You know you could consider using this picture again if you cover the new saliva test for autism, I mean, just a thought. -although I have to say I'm a little nervous opening AoA at work these days.

Just posting for my husband when I told him about this study over coffee this morning...

I like my woman....
Buff enough to clean up all that fecal material.

Thousands of families living with Autism. Millions of dollars spent by said families trying to give a good life to themselves and their affected children. Questions raised, answers begged for, and someone spent money trying to figure out if T&A is partially the cause of autism??? Really?? Here's a clue, TRY LOOKING AT ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES!! For the money spent they could have, I don't know, maybe actually studied something more relevant?!?!?!

This doesn't make sense to me. I've got plenty of curves, my husband prefers curves, and I'm pretty damn sure he fathered our daughter (make that absolutely sure!), so what happened? Too much Elmo and Teletubbies? Nah, I think it was the vaccines.

This is definitely not the first time I've cried from reading a post, but it's definitely the first time I've cried from LAUGHING after reading a post. Too funny (sad, because of the wasted research dollars, but entertaining none the less). Thanks Kim!

Maybe they just have a little class! But seriously, I think these people need to get a grip because it is likely that the women having adrenal and thyroid issues (leading to their body shapes) have a lot more to do with the children having autism than the stinkin preference of the men!

Ritz Cracker said it best:

"I would guess that with the amount of sex the average father of a kid with ASD gets, the shape of a woman is perhaps the last thing on his mind.

He'll take whatever he can get, wherever he can get it."

Ask my hubby :D Or ask me LOL!!! Whatever, Wherever, and Whenever we can get something - anything on :D

Yeh... the penis size and autism study will follow - LOVE IT KIM! Won't the results of that be interesting!

Then after the penis size study is completed they'll be looking to blame our ovaries... ovary size and autism or which ovary did you ovulate from and conception took place and then autism resulted in the child.

Best laugh I've had in a few days and damn if I didn't need it!!! Thank you Bath and Thank you Kim!

I still can not believe money was spent on this "research". Insane!

God! I love Age of Autism!!!

University of Bath. Is that near West Midlands, UK?

So are the Olsen twins keynote speakers at A1 this year?

My husband prefers athlethic build. I was thin, but not buff when we met. He's a runner and loves weight lifting. Shortly after we started dating, he bought me a stepper, some work out videos and some weights and I was hooked. We have a full gym in the basement. Sounds great, but when autism moved in our house, the basement became a ghost town -- no time and no energy.

This sounds like the study they did a few years ago at the Duke University Medical Center by Michael Platt. Cure Autism Now (CAN)was involved in funding the study along with NIMH.

It was about monkeys looking at other monkeys asses. Frankly, those doing the study made asses out the NIMH and CAN and those foolish enough to give money to CAN.

See
http://www.livescience.com/animals/050128_monkey_business.html

By the way, I saw nothing in this study that helped one kid with autism. Nothing, nada!!!
In the end that was definitely the objective of this study....to contribute NOTHING!!!

Ray Gallup

The list just keeps getting longer...I am now a flat chested, schizophrenic, cold and uncaring mother with bad genes married to a dorky, old husband who has no preference for the female shape. Both of us agreed to sit our children in front of the television all day while we bathed our children in toxic dog shampoo. We are the perfect storm apparently. Who knew?

I think jenny blows this theory away

On the subject of breasts... I'd like a methodical retrospective examination of infant food sources, whether breast milk or formula, and details about the types of formula consumed (specifically, the presence or absence of GM ingredients) since currently 90% of soy consumed is genetically modified.

When was GM soy first introduced and in what foods?

Any chance they just make more rational decisions, ie, choosing based on other qualities as well as figure? Sure, they saw the curves, but looking at the pictures, they are not going to react irrationally, they know there are other qualities to consider, whereas "most" of the population follow...other socially-driven motivators (herd mentality, gut instincts, "popular" choices). My take on this study is completely different, it's just the chosing mechanism works differently, not necessarily the consequences of the choice.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081015110228.htm
ScienceDaily (Oct. 15, 2008) — People with autism-related disorders are less likely to make irrational decisions, and are less influenced by gut instincts, according to research funded by the Wellcome Trust. The study adds to the growing body of research implicating altered emotional processing in autism.
Decision-making is a complex process, involving both intuition and analysis: analysis involves computation and more "rational" thought, but is slower; intuition, by contrast, is much faster, but less accurate, relying on heuristics, or "gut instincts".

"Yeah, where's the study of penis length and autism, huh??? Maybe underway at Johnson and Johnson right now? ;)"

every kid within 10 miles of my house would be ASD

[did I say that out loud...?]

no comments about inverse correlation, please...

;-)

I am so relieved!! My daughter, the sibling of a young man with autism, is quite curvy. She has been afraid to have children. Maybe this will change her mind.NOT!!! We need to save this article to run by all those who wonder why it is taking so long to find a cause and a cure. I cannot express how insane this stuff makes me. Who are the idiots who financed this.

From your link:
"Studies show that the waist-to-hip ratio of 70% is what the majority of men find most attractive because it correlates strongly with good health and fertility.

Women within this range tend to have optimal levels of oestrogen and are less susceptible to major diseases, while women whose ratio shows their waist is bigger than their hips, or vice versa, tend to have higher levels of testosterone."

Is this not significant? Less curvy women have more testosterone, less estrogen and might be more susceptible to diseases. Might this not have an impact on their children's health?

Sex and autism? No problem Autism Speaks is going to fund a fundraiser for fathers, "Walk for your C..." : Once you are sufficiently "Aware" of autism, you get a coupon to http://www.realdoll.com/. (Caution, naughty photo on website!!!)

Ok,I have to take my girls to Church school now. Swear to God. Maybe I'll stop inside and say a prayer of forgiveness for my snarkiness. Or not.

I would guess that with the amount of sex the average father of a kid with ASD gets, the shape of a woman is perhaps the last thing on his mind.

He'll take whatever he can get, wherever he can get it.

First, I have NEVER met a guy YET who is *NOT* interested in CURVES.

Second, the guys that I know in this community were *DEFINITELY* not the subjects of this study. For example, one time at a popular *unnamed* conference, the discussion at the bar revolved around Hooter's and their planes. Yes folks, that's right. Not only does Hooter's have girls in white shirts they also have airplanes and I NEVER knew it -- until I found out from these two *unnamed* guys (wink, wink and hey, I won't reveal your names IF you contribute 20 bucks to Kim's fund!)

Third, what about us *natural* non Olive Oyl types?? (Cuz let's face it -- anyone can be a non-Olive Oyl if they fork out the money.) Obviously, the curves were a part of the package when our hubbys married us, no??

And fourth, who conducts a *legitimate* study in Bath?? [No guys, I didn't say, "In thee bath" (where of course a study like this would be a whole heck of a lot of fun!)I mean in a city called Bath. Sounds like it was rigged from the start ;-]

This is as about as ludicrous as the monkey butt study and autism from NIH...but, that got me searching, and one thing I cannot deny...high androgen levels may also end up with comparatively small breasts. Androgen disorders are HIGH in children with autism? I don't know what it does in terms of estrogen testosterone balance (it must disturb it), but, there may be some correlation,... that not necessarily the pick they pick as men, but that if you end up with a women with androgen problems, she passes it down to her kids...

I also know a high estrogen women, is also at fates for autism, only because she if more vulnerable to environmental things (high estrogens soak up toxins more readily), such as high copper, low zinc, high iron. Those same women are also at risk for breast cancers. I think it has a lot to do with how you handle metals? These metals are usally disturbed in autism. I have a daughter who cannot do the BCP, because it ups her estrogens even more, almost making her psychotic. Her ObGyn has seen that in some women...which makes me wonder, if the BCP is also at fault for our autism epidemic (the timing is about right as far as universal use), which preconditions the women to be low on zinc and metallothionein (shapes neuron health), high in copper and iron, right before having a baby? Hmmm?

The good thing about that, is we have less chances of breast cancers???

I personally believe the God puts men and women together for some higher design than boobies - especially if he..AKA.. God chooses to place them under stress such as autism...and personally, I think parents of autistic children are exceptional people, regardless of their physical shapes, but the contents of their characters are enormous..THey are usually super smart, motivated, spiritual people...who by some design evil or not, that they are forced to reconnect with why they are here, through their children as an eye on eternal perspectives. Personally, I don't blame God for this situation either (I blame the sin of mankind for messing with mother nature), only that, he knows what kind of people can take it. I have seen this over and over...and I am blessed to be a part of this community who can recognize bogus studies, and truth. But as I say, think of androgens...anyone want to further comment??? Androgens and Autism? Hmmm?

That said, I was flat chested UNTIL MY BABIES???? LOL....

i just got home from work where i took patient histories for 3 children with autism who's parents are searching for answers to their autism. this just chaps my a#$. families are falling apart, all hopes for their children dashed (until they found me, haha), homes full of sickness and despair and this is what we get in the department of research for their pain today. i want to strangle these people.

But what is the waist to hip ratio that mothers of autistic kids prefer?

With stress eating and lack of sleep my hips are probably only about 70% of my waist measurement

This would be funny if it wasn't so sad that tax dollars were wasted on this.

I'm pretty curvy myself.

When my boys were first diagnosed I signed up for all kinds of research studies you could do on-line; facial recognition, etc. This was before I found better things to do with my obsessed about ASD while at work time, like reading A of A or researching biomed recovery.

Well, a little while back I got an email asking me to participate in this study. I declined and asked to have my name taken off their list of participants.

Here is the email I got:

Thank you for being registered with the Cambridge Autism Research Centre volunteer database at www.autismresearchcentre.com We have been asked by Dr. Mark Brosnan at the University of Bath to send the advert below to parents of children diagnosed with an autism spectrum condition. Please rest assured that none of your details have been passed to Dr. Brosnan.
If you would like to take part in the project, please go to the websitehttp://www.drianwalker.com/parentsurvey/
If you have any questions about the project, please contact Dr. Brosnan [email protected] Best wishes, Sally WheelwrightDeputy DirectorAutism Research Centre
BATH UNIVERSITY ASSORTATIVE MATING PROJECT
We are emailing to invite you to take part in some exciting research being conducted by researchers at the University of Bath. We are examining psychological similarities and differences between couples (such as husband and wife or 'partners'). We are focusing upon partner preferences for body shapes and, where the couple have children, we are also focusing on how these psychological similarities and differences may relate to family structure (e.g. number of biological sons and daughters) and autism spectrum conditions, such as autism and Asperger Syndrome. The body shape images include photographs of women in bathing suits and cartoons of naked men and women from behind. The images have all been used in research before but if you are likely to find them offensive please do not take part. The questionnaire does not take long and we would be very grateful if you would take part in this project by clicking on the web link below (you my need to cut and paste the link into your search engine). Anyone can take part, as long as you are 18 years of age or older. More information will be provided after the questionnaire is completed. Many thanks in advance. http://www.drianwalker.com/parentsurvey/

Garbo - I was going to say the same thing. If you showed these dads a curvy woman or a bed they could get 4 hour of uninterrupted sleep - - I think then you'd see a preference.

Hmmm....maybe I shoulda gotten those implants....

Oh, for crying out loud! I'll bet if you showed those pix to men who had kids with epilepsy, or cancer, or any other terrible condition, those guys wouldn't care about the shape of the women either. They probably all have PTSD and have deeper issues to worry about, like recovering their kids. Sheesh. Did anyone think to study whether the dads had a preference for long-hair cats vs. short hair ones? Or maybe whether they favored chocolate ice cream over pistachio or rum raisin? Because, you know, it could be that people who like all flavors of ice cream are responsible for the autism epidemic.