DOD and CDC: Studies Suggest a Possible Link Between Multiple Vaccines and Injury
It looks like the CDC may have missed a memo to itself on vaccine safety.
One very contentious issue in the vaccine-autism debate has been whether a certain subset of genetically susceptible children is unequipped to handle the early and intensive US immunization schedule – including kids like Hannah Poling, who developed autism after receiving nine vaccines at once.
The theory is that some people with abnormal immune or metabolic systems might become overtaxed by the fever, inflammation and/or other stresses sometimes caused by multiple vaccines.
Many doctors and scientists scoff at the notion that someone could be injured by getting too many shots at once. They say that people of all ages, including babies, can handle multiple exposures at any given moment.
For example, the CDC’s website says that simultaneous multiple immunizations are safe for children with “normal” immune systems. And Dr. Paul Offit, a prominent pediatrician and wealthy vaccine co-inventor, says that kids can handle simultaneous exposure to the antigens contained in 100,000 vaccines - without any harm coming to them.
So, the CDC says that multiple vaccines are safe for everyone (at least in infants).
But now, we learn that a collaborative program between the CDC and the Department of Defense says that multiple vaccines may not be safe for everyone (at least in adults being inoculated for military service).
“We have preliminary findings from one of our many on-going research studies that suggest a relationship between adverse events and multiple vaccinations exist. These findings will require validation, but heighten our concern for the current clinical practice of multiple vaccinations.”
That rather remarkable statement came from US Army Colonel Renata J. M. Engler, MD, director of the Vaccine Healthcare Centers Network (VHCN) a “collaborative network” of the Defense Department - and the CDC.
She went on to say this:
“The more drugs one is exposed to, the greater the likelihood of having an adverse event so as vaccine numbers increase, and (sic) we will see more people who have efficacy or safety issues.”
And later, this:
“The standard of care (ie, when mixing vaccines) is to minimize drug exposures because of the recognition that the more drugs being used, the greater the chance of a reaction and potentially a serious adverse event.”
Col. Engler’s candid statements (I’ve never heard anything like them from any other senior vaccine official), were included in a November 26 letter (HERE) to Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-NY). Maloney had written to inquire (HERE) about a 2007 VHCN presentation suggesting that 1-2 percent of all service members were suffering serious adverse effects from their shots.
I first reported on this presentation in August, (HERE) when someone alerted me to a Government Accounting Office report saying that VHCN and CDC officials “estimate that between 1 and 2 percent of immunized individuals may experience severe adverse events, which could result in disability or death. Some of these events may occur coincidentally following immunization, while others may truly be caused by immunization."
I had never heard of the VHCN, so I went to their website, where I found this (HERE) Power Point presentation, and this slide in particular: (HERE).
The slides suggested that, among active duty and reserve service members, up to 48,000 individuals may have sustained serious vaccine injuries which might need to be classified as "casualties,” and may require teaching "new skills" to some of those injured.
But Col. Engler wrote that the slides had been misinterpreted.
“Our program is not in a position to provide incidence data but rather to refine case definitions and research questions to address the serious and the rare adverse events questions,” she wrote.
The 1-2% figure was merely an estimate of “who may need an immunization healthcare consultation to address clinical questions raised,” she said.
“The consultation does not prove or disprove causality association but it is from these consultations that we have refined our understanding of the questions, a critical first step to future refinement of research agendas. It is our firm belief that increased research into side effects that are more severe but may be short duration, may help us understand more severe adverse events (more rare at 1 in 10-100,000). However, our work over the past years has been humbling in relation to the knowledge gaps.”
And what about the slide mentioning that up to 48,000 service members might require ”new skills” following vaccine injury?
“This statistic refers to the potential number of service members, experiencing more serious side effects (not serious disease with prolonged duration), that may need a medical consultation about next dose and/or pre-treatment to reduce the severity of the side effects, etc.,” Col. Engler explained, (I think).
So what does any of this have to do with autism? Perhaps nothing. As Col. Engler herself wrote: “The belief that vaccines are safe to mix is based largely on pediatric experience and with a much more limited spectrum of vaccines.” (In other words, apples and oranges, here folks).
Now, it’s hard to imagine how 35-to-40 or more shots in the US childhood schedule could be “much more limited” than the military’s regime. But then again, babies don’t get vaccinated against anthrax and smallpox.
But it’s also hard to imagine that there might be a “relationship between adverse events and multiple vaccinations” in adults healthy enough to fight a war, and yet, among babies and infants with immature immune systems and developing brains, the practice is universally harmless – even for kids like Hannah Poling who had an underlying mitochondrial dysfunction.
In the meantime, let’s hope the DOD and the CDC and get their message straight. If they want to convince parents that multiple vaccines might be risky for some soldiers but safe for all little kids, well, good luck.
Or maybe, the government is finally going to look into the percentage of people (however small) who might be genetically programmed against the ability to withstand more than one or two shots at any given time.
As Col. Engler notes, more work is needed in this regard: “The recommendation for more research on subpopulation risk factors in relation to multiple vaccine combinations has been included in the Institute of Medicine Report on Multiple Vaccines - (HERE)"
David Kirby is author of Evidence of Harm, a contributor to Age of Autism and blogs for Huffington Post.
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Posted by: Ali | January 21, 2010 at 04:41 AM
The true problem to this is men like my husband who are told they cannot sue or take action against the military but after receiving 8 immunizations in 3 days and another 3 more that year, he went from being a perfectly healthy male to catching every illness around, allergies to almost everything, kidney stones, weight gain and psoriasis. Top that off with ankle reconstruction and sciatic nerve damage and knees scoped and the poor guy is lucky to have a pain free, non-sick day once a month if he's lucky. Tough to hold down a job and manage a family and spend time with your kids that way! Where does he go for help? The VA doesn't want to admit to any connections to vaccines!
Posted by: Shari Virtue | January 09, 2009 at 09:41 PM
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Posted by: Celine | December 20, 2008 at 07:49 AM
My husband is an officer in the Navy. Our son (10 years old) has ASD (PDD-NOS). The military hospital (NAS JAX, FL) gave me 2 Rhogam shots in utero (both containing thimerisol) and my son REGRESSED after vaccines between the first and second years of his life. We are following DAN! protocol and our son is doing amazingly well. My brother-in-law is in the midst of his third tour overseas and I had recently mentioned to my husband about getting him goint through detox when he gets home.
Posted by: Heather | December 10, 2008 at 12:33 AM
Now I am wondering about the Hepatitis B vaccination that a job 10 years or so ago required me to get, for after that I developed an anxiety disorder... now I wonder if that is what did it for that was when it started withing weeks of getting that vaccination?? Maybe a lot of things are caused by vaccination side effects and some don't manifest as quickly? I hope someone does some research on the link not only between vaccinations and autism in children, but also in mental health problems in adults for it seems 1 out of 3 people are on some kind of psychotropic drug in their lifetime and that just seems inordinately high.
Posted by: Sue | December 09, 2008 at 07:34 PM
I have heard all my life that vacines cannot harm because they're made from the dead viruses of whatever is being immunized. Yet, there are many stories like my own, of folks getting sick after a vacination.My question is, why wouldn't even a "dead" alien substance being introduced into the human body cause some reaction other than the hoped for immunization?
Posted by: Sandra L. Reed | December 06, 2008 at 08:45 PM
i,m wonder why some say several shots will not harm a infant excepacilly if they have poor inume systme when some truly health adults have a reaction to some drugs as pencilla if shots didn,t cause this then why do some people have to have a record of thier allergic,s meds and always that is 1st question we are ask when we see new dr. or have a need to go to the er any one with common sence about what i just said would have no problem seeing the truth about so many shots being given to our babies and now with all these men in war having problems.
Posted by: Linda | December 05, 2008 at 07:19 AM
This is another example of the need to understand the bottom line in today's health"care"(it's all about money) and then put poison on the moneytrails so as to redirect the paths to those harmed and those in need. We need to include Truth to our new era of Hope; and society will benefit when, realistically, we see life and its challenges using a view based on humanity-- not greed. Thanks Dan and Kim. Great info.
Posted by: Larry | December 04, 2008 at 08:28 PM
How about the military members who got Anthrax and Small Pox vaccines and then came home to their children? There is some risk there. Plus, we don't know what the adults are REALLY getting in their shots. I get nervous whenever my son's father comes home from overseas.
Thanks for writing this piece David. I think it's another step towards publicly admitting the truth about vaccines.
Posted by: Christine Heeren | December 04, 2008 at 01:31 PM
Although the thrust of this discussion is "multiple simultaneous vaccines may cause harm in genetically susceptible individuals", there seems to be an undercurrent expressed by many of "all vaccines are harmful." The implication of the former is that there is low risk of any single vaccine, and the implication of the latter is that all vaccines should be banned or not part of any public health program.
What does "How many dead babies, injured children and injured adults before the vaccine insanity stops?" mean?
Posted by: Joe | December 04, 2008 at 10:28 AM
One thing I am so surprised no one has mentioned is the multiple vaccines started at the same time we were all told to stop giving our babies aspirin because of the threat of Reyes Syndrome.
What if the anti - inflamatory affect of aspirin provided protection to the developing brain? Take that away, add multiple vaccines at the same time and we have "The Perfect Storm".
My daughter turns 21 in February, she was slammed by the first wave.
Posted by: sue | December 04, 2008 at 10:15 AM
My grandson was given 7 vaccinations (his father took him during one of his visitations)all at once while he sick with a daycare strep exposure he was 23 months old and had never had any vaccinations. He totally changed. He displayed autistic symptoms. After metabolic testing he shows obvious metabolic damage. He has been diagnosed with high functioning autism. The father does not believe there is anything wrong with his son. My daughter is finacially destroyed trying to save her son medically and legally. She has no more money to fight to save her son. This has been in local court for over two years and still has not ended. My daughter and grandson deserve the "system" to change and eyes need to be opened to save and protect these children. The political game is destroying lives.
Posted by: Rebecca McCall | December 04, 2008 at 10:11 AM
What gets me is the unbelievable back-peddaling: vaccine reactions so severe that people needed to be taught "new skills" suddenly transforms into cases needing to be consulted for planning prior to their next doses! WTF? So, their reactions were so severe that they could be called "casualties"- but now they just need some counseling so we can shoot them up with more pathogens and send them on their way: it's all good!
Mark my words, this woman's career is over. The gov't will make sure she rots away somewhere the press can't find her again.
Posted by: Cherri | December 04, 2008 at 12:31 AM
If Hannah P had any mitochondrial dysfunction before the day when she received those 9 vaccines, it was so mild that it was not causing any problems. The vaccines apparently either caused or greatly aggravated her condition.
But the vaccine defenders keep repeating that she had a pre-existing condition. These are the same people who keep calling us parents unscientific, but they are assuming (or pretending) that she already had this condition, even though there is no evidence of that and it is known that mercury can cause mitochondrial dysfunction.
There was some mention of her inheriting this condition, but neither of her parents have health problems.
Thanks for another great article, Mr. Kirby.
Posted by: Twyla | December 03, 2008 at 09:23 PM
Incredible!! Absolutely incredible!
Posted by: Lin | December 03, 2008 at 07:26 PM
Yes, good question Matt. Nobody knows what the mitochondrial function of Hannah Poling or the other children like her looked like before regression or illness (premorbid).
This is THE critical scientific "chicken or egg question" that could be easily asked and answered. One would only need to perform a study of high risk siblings (of cases)from birth and a detailed longitudinal study of patients. Nobody has looked at what mitochondrial function looks like over time in these cases either.
We will have to wait and see if this straight-forward science is proposed and perfomed by NIH/CDC, or if the talking heads don't want to know! I wouldn't hold my breath!
Posted by: AutismDad | December 03, 2008 at 02:42 PM
Good question. The government indicated that she did apparently based on testing done later...not sure why unless it is just assumed to be present from birth in all cases and worsens when some environmental insult sets it off.
That is why it is a critical question to start asking ahead of time. But how do you ask and answer this question when you start vaccinating the day of birth with Hep B? Back then it was full of thimerosal as well which is known to damage mitochondria.
As an aside on the point of Hep B, being that both parents were medical professionals, it would make sense that they HAD to have the Hep B vaccine to work in the field. Why then, would any of their children have needed a Hep B vaccine? I wonder if anyone ever thought to ask this question? Or is it just same 'ol one size fits all?
Posted by: goodquestion | December 03, 2008 at 12:29 PM
THE VCHN Website lists "autism" as an adverse event associated with the DTaP vaccine.
Posted by: DavidK | December 03, 2008 at 11:23 AM
With ref. to MMR, just try this simple experiment: Join any group of 4 young mothers. Now, explain to them that for 2 months after the MMR their child will have lowered immunity to any infection. What happens next is that one of the 4 (Thats 25%) will pipe up saying, " Thats when my child got Thrombocytopenia! Or "Thats when my child got thrush!" Or "Thats when my child got Kawasaki disease" Dont need no VAERS for that one.
Posted by: Cherry Sperlin Misra | December 03, 2008 at 11:20 AM
I have the same question Matt posted Dec 3. My understanding is that mito dysfunction is very difficult to confirm. Go to umdf.org
From the NIH sponsored symposium in Indy on June of this year with experts in the field of mito disease and autism--
-what is known about potential triggers that disturb Mitochondrial function especially in a vulnerable population
-asymptomatic or very mild mitochondrial dysfunction might go undetected for years
Could it be thatthe multiple vaccinations triggered the mito dysfunction??
Could it be that this is what has happened with many youngsters??
Posted by: Howard | December 03, 2008 at 11:03 AM
Did Hannah Poling have an underlying mitochondrial dysfunction, as you say? I thought no one really knew for sure whether it pre-dated her immunizations or occurred afterward as a result. Am I wrong?
Posted by: Matt | December 03, 2008 at 09:24 AM
A friend found a vaccine schedule from 1974 and passed it on to me. Here is a quote:
"If your child has a fever, or an acute illness, immunizations should be postponed. If you are in doubt about any conditions such as allergies, eczema, treatments, check with your doctor."
And here is the schedule:
Age Type of Immunization
2 months DTP and Oral Polio
4 months DTP and Oral Polio
6 months DTP and Oral Polio
12 months Measles, Rubella, Mumps
18 months DTP and Oral Polio
4-6 years DTP and Oral Polio
14-16 years Td (and thereafter every 10 years)
Interesting, isn't it?
Posted by: MinorityView | December 02, 2008 at 09:36 PM
I am counting down the days until we pull the Vaccine Schedule and someone starts following the money trail on vaccines. Erin Brockovich is wanting to talk to women harmed by Gardasil.
Posted by: Ant Bethany | December 02, 2008 at 09:02 PM
'Healthy' baby died after MMR jab
By James Woodward, PA
Tuesday, 2 December 2008
A "healthy and robust" baby who died just ten days after being given the MMR jab had earlier suffered a fever fit which can be aggravated by the vaccine, an inquest heard today.
George Fisher, aged 18 months, was discovered dead in his cot in Cheltenham, Gloucestershire by his mother Sarah Fisher just hours after he was heard "chatting away on the baby monitor", a coroner was told.
Mrs Fisher, 44, and husband Christopher, 43, believe the vaccine is "implicated" in their son's death in January 2006 as the temperature-raising effects of the drug on children who have suffered febrile convulsions were not explained to them - knowledge they say might have allowed them to act sooner.
How many dead babies, injured children and injured adults before the vaccine insanity stops?
Posted by: anotherdeadbabyfromMMRjab | December 02, 2008 at 08:05 PM
Saw this story called "5 Flu Vaccination Myths".....interesting to note the CDC recommendation that is mentioned in the article (pasted below). I wonder if somebody didn't do their homework or if the CDC is quietly backing off the six month recommendation as the time to begin the flu shot.
"No one looks forward to getting stuck with a needle at the doctor’s office. But the flu vaccination is one shot that everyone should get each year, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
This is because influenza is one of the most common and most deadly viruses spread throughout the fall and winter months. About 200,000 people are hospitalized and 36,000 people die each year from flu-related complications.
Generally speaking, symptoms of the flu are worse than those of the common cold and may include high fever, headache, coughing, weakness and muscle aches. Even in mild cases, the flu can leave sufferers bedridden for several days.
The CDC recommends that everyone age 2 and up get vaccinated each year, but annual shots are especially important for age groups 2 to 18 and 65 and older, and people with compromised immune systems. In addition to the flu shot, a nasal spray vaccine is available for people under 50. Unlike the shot, two doses of the nasal spray are required for sufficient protection against the virus."
Posted by: Becky | December 02, 2008 at 06:53 PM
I agree with Pamela and Garbo. Vaccines have injured many populations in many ways. I think our message would be stronger if we all united and a Gulf War Vet might be more likely to make it to a rally than an autism parent who can't find a babysitter etc. I have heard of Gulf War Vets seeing alternative doctors to do chelation etc. but I don't know how many of those injured do or how many know of alternative treatments. I also remember reading that Gulf War Vets were more likely to have kids with autism. Hmm ...
Posted by: Uniting-is-good | December 02, 2008 at 06:44 PM
Wow, I just went the link that Alexander provided (thanks for the info, Alexander...very interesting!)...
This is a search I did for the term 'death'...note how many of these infants deaths are labelled SIDS after the autopsey is performed, yet vaccines were administered in some cases just a day or two before the baby died. The dates are all scattered and some go back a number of years, but the numbers are still staggering.
Similarly, a search for "MMR" pulled up 50K+ adverse reactions...Absolutely insane and completely terrifying.
Posted by: Julie Swenson | December 02, 2008 at 05:06 PM
We're checking the link. Thanks for the heads up.
Posted by: Stagmom RE: Link | December 02, 2008 at 04:10 PM
Hey David- they killed the link
Posted by: JOHN | December 02, 2008 at 03:38 PM
fascinating letter from DOD vax expert-- I don't think Paul Offit got the memo though about increased risk of vaccine adverse events with multiple exposures at once. does he or ECBT have any comment on the letter to Rep Maloney?
Posted by: AutismDad | December 02, 2008 at 02:55 PM
These are the types of articles that need to be posted on the mainstream baby message boards. Soon-to-be and new moms are probably much more aware of vaccine risks than even a few years ago, but there is still much more awareness and education that needs to be done for the "know-it-all" or naïve and trusting new parents.
When I go and post on the baby message boards (I have no newborn kiddos)- I also post about the parents who have higher education levels as the ones being most skeptical about vaccinating. It gets new parents thinking more quickly since they don't want to seem as if they aren't so intelligent ; )
Posted by: postthisonbabyboards | December 02, 2008 at 02:53 PM
Wow, what a mess. Someone needs to tell Dr. Engler that there is no study to show that "mixing" vaccines in the pediatric schedule has been studied and proven safe.
I couldn't get the link to the IOM report on multiple vaccinations to work.
What is the military vaccine schedule?
Posted by: Maggie | December 02, 2008 at 02:34 PM
Hi, Alexander. I wanted to thank you for your comment. It was well phrased and adds to the cogent discussion at A of A. So, thank you!
KIM, Managing Editor
Posted by: Stagmom for Alexander | December 02, 2008 at 02:23 PM
Pamela, I am on the same wavelength as you. Particularly because I also have (civilian) friends with MS and ALS, which apparently have a higher rate in Gulf War vets. Then I look at stories about the girls who are developing juvenile onset ALS, Gullain-Barre, or some undefined degenerative motor disorder after Gardasil, and it seems so similar to what the Shaw study found regarding aluminum adjuvant as it relates to Gulf War syndrome. These are all pieces of the same puzzle, don't you think? I truly would be interested to see if the DAN testing and protocols would work for Gulf War vets.
Posted by: Garbo | December 02, 2008 at 02:20 PM
You may find this site useful (it's a search engine for vaccine and drug adverse events reported to FDA/CDC): http://www.fdable.com/vaers
I'm not a strong believer in the autism / vaccination link, but I think it's reasonable to assume that likelihood of adverse events will increase with the # of simultaneous vaccinations (as a general rule).
But there isn't really a mention of autism in the statements you cite. It's merely an argument that since there is a non-zero likelihood of an adverse event associated with n vaccinations, then the likelihood will likely increase with n+1 vaccinations. How much will it increase? impossible to tell.
Posted by: Alexander Skripkin | December 02, 2008 at 02:01 PM
Well folks...am I the only one who’s been thinking, for a few months now, that it might be the vaccine injured soldiers who ultimately save our country's kids? Two of our country’s most vulnerable populations...it just makes me sick.
Maybe our DAN! docs should open their doors to Gulf War vets...if only there were enough DAN! docs to even treat our kids.
I've also been pondering, how powerful it would be for the activists in our community to join those who have been working on behalf of the Gulf War Vets for so many years? We sure have a lot in common.
Posted by: Pamela | December 02, 2008 at 02:00 PM