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Kim Stagliano on HuffPo: Mandatory Kidney Donation in New Jersey

Every Child By Two: Parasites, Graves, Wyeth, and Sanofi

Stooges_doctrosBy J.B. Handley

Every Child By Two is a three-person organization, housed out of a tiny office in a rough part of Washington, D.C. that happens to receive the majority of their funding from Wyeth, a vaccine maker.

Recently, ECBT hit the radar screen of many autism parents by hiring a "celebrity", Amanda Peet, to help spread the message of vaccine makers that all vaccines are good for you and your babies. As everybody knows, Ms. Peet made her PR debut in Cookie Magazine, where she infamously stated that parents who do not vaccinate their children are "parasites."

A few weeks later, ECBT hosted a press conference in New York City to kick off the "Vaccinate Your Baby" campaign that featured Amanda Peet, Rosalyn Carter, Paul Offit, and a bunch of pissed off parents from our side of the aisle. On their web site, Vaccinate Your Baby discloses that their campaign is funded by Sanofi, another vaccine maker.

If you Google "Every Child By Two", the third link that comes up is a story that I wrote (HERE) for AoA back in August explaining the source of ECBT's funding (Wyeth). Perhaps it's coincidence, but that link was up BEFORE their press conference, and ECBT got no press. Even a vaccine-loving journalist may be a bit queasy covering a press conference of a vaccine-maker front group, I don't know.

Recently, 33% of ECBT contacted AoA (one of three employees). Rich Greenaway, Director of Operations, apparently had a gripe that we had used an actual photo of the ECBT Board of Directors at the top of the piece I wrote, and he asked us to remove it. Our stellar Managing Editor, Kim Stagliano, obliged the request right quick, and put up an equally attractive alternative photo, which you can check out HERE.

So what, you say? Well, I sort of agree with you and I can barely justify the time it takes to write about ECBT, but I was very, very struck by the email I saw from Mr. Greenaway himself to AoA asking to have this photo removed. You see, like many people, Mr. Greenaway has an automatic signature at the bottom of his emails, and I think I should just share his with you here, so you can see why I'm spending the time to write. So, I'm printing his entire signature for you, I'm not going to comment on the "666" in his street address, and I'm just going to direct you to the bottom of his signature, the part that I have chosen to bold:

Rich Greenaway
Director of Operations and Special Projects
Every Child By Two
666 11th Street NW, Ste. 202
Washington, DC 20001-4542
voice (202) 783-7034 x17fax: (202) 783-7042
website: www.ecbt.org

Green our vaccines?
The only green you will see by getting rid of vaccines or decreasing their use is the grass growing on the graves of children needlessly killed by preventable infections.
                                    
Mark Crislip, MD

***

Now, people certainly have a right to put whatever the heck they want to put on the signature of their emails, but I think it may be fair to wonder if the ECBT organization is in any way actually helping reach the goals they claim to have:

First, they put Amanda Peet in Cookie magazine and she calls us all parasites.

Then, Paul Offit takes credit for educating and recruiting Amanda Peet, shows up at the Vaccinate Your Baby press conference, and CBS Evening News does an expose on him and the AAP for their conflicts of interest.

Now, ECBT is promoting the "dead children" argument to counter Jenny McCarthy's call for green vaccines?

It's enough to make a parent like me grin from ear to ear.

You see, the dead children argument is a loser, and it's based on a public health strategy that CDC and AAP have explicitly employed for the last 15 years: try to scare the shit out of the public.

But, parents aren't buying it. And, the public is very wary of fear-mongering, just look at what is happening in our presidential election.

The CDC's vaccine program is at a crossroads, and sitting on very, very fragile ground right now. Just like our financial system, the vaccine program is held together with trust, in this case the trust between a parent and their doctor. That trust is eroding very quickly.

When parents hear about autism in their own communities on a daily basis, and when they hear from many parents of children with autism that vaccines were a primary trigger, they listen. When the only message they hear from doctors is "vaccinate or die", they stop listening.

Public health officials have two choices:

Choice 1:

Continue to defend the current vaccine schedule and program against any and all criticism and continually state that the benefits outweigh the risks.

Choice 2:

Re-adopt the philosophy of medicine to "do no harm" and reduce the schedule, demand that vaccines are more safely made, critically evaluate the side-effects, and put the children first.

While I'm on Choice #2, I will submit a clear proposal for public health officials to consider:

Restore the vaccine schedule from 1983, before vaccine makers were indemnified, with two changes: split the MMR and DTP shots into three separate shots. Offer any additional vaccines since made to extremely high risk groups when appropriate, like Hep B for children of Hep B moms. And, issue simple guidelines for parents to avoid high risks like multiple vaccines in one visit, vaccinating while on antibiotics, etc.

We all know that Choice #1 is the course of action for the immediate future from our health authorities. The fear-mongering, as exemplified by Rich Greenaway, will continue.

And, at some point, much as a set of events all transpired simultaneously to generate a tipping point to plunge our financial system into the abyss, so, too, will the vaccine program. Keep it up, Mr. Greenaway, your just moving things along.

JB Handley is co-founder of Generation Rescue and a contributor to Age of Autism.

Comments

Chris

Amber,

Yes, I got investigated for child abuse as well. :( It wasn't quite as intense as what you went through, but the first hospital I took him to immediately after his sis dropped him out of his crib called CPS on me. Not because they suspected that I had abused Quinn, but because they said my children were "out of control" in the emergency room and I was "really upset". Umm, yeah, my five-year-old disabled child just threw her brother out of his crib and his little head is swelling up and she and her siblings are running all over the emergency room being difficult and my husband is out at sea. Who the he** wouldn't be upset?

Once they did a head CT and discovered he had a hairline skull fracture (he didn't have any bleeding on his brain, thank God) they sent him to a trauma center at a larger hospital for observation overnight. My next door neighbors took my neurotypical children for me, but finding someone to watch my ASD child so that I could go be with my baby was daunting. I finally left her with a friend who also has an autistic son, but I felt terrible because she had just had a baby herself. My in-laws came and got her from my friend's house after a few hours of her being there and kept her overnight.

He was discharged the next day and CPS came to my door two days later with a detective and they also questioned my oldest child (who saw the whole thing, I had my back turned). It was very rattling and stressful and thank God the CPS worker unsubstantiated my case and closed it. She was not a very nice person at all.

I'm sorry you had to deal with the police and all that at the hospital. That sounds even worse than what I went through, actually.

Amber

I actually wasn't trying be insult anyone, believe it or not. I was using measels as an example, pulled it out of thin air. I'm not really big on researching statistics, numbers and I don't get along very well. The measels part wasn't making a point, it was just an example.

As far as it being/not being a parents fault if something happens to their child...Agree to disagree? It's beating a dead horse to try and change other people's opinions, and in the end the only opinion that really matters to each of us is our own. I still feel that if a parent does not vaccinate, and the child gets sick, the parent is to blame. Same way I was to blame for letting sierra get the MMR,and Flu shots at the same time and having her end up in the hospital. I should have waited a couple weeks on the MMR and had that one given alone, with nothing else. In my opinion, I am very much responsible for whatever reaction Sierra had.

Yes, I do tend to be a "shit stirrer." It's my nature, I suspect. It makes for more interesting debates though.

This may be another one of those shit stirring opinions, but I can't help myself... John Best is unhinged. Not because of his beliefs, so much, as the way he talks about his own son. He often refers to autistic kids as "feces smearers" and other horribly degrading names. Inevitably, in almost everything he says, the "our kids who smear shit all over the walls aren't going to be geniuses" garbage comes out. To me, that is inexcusable. He says he is going to place his child in an institution and basically have nothing more to do with him and it's all the pharmaceutical folk's fault. In his posting I see a desperate man, so focused on hating autism that he's turned his son into a lab rat and spends his time ranting in a fury and posting about all these miracles cures that will change everything. He viciously calls out anyone who doesn't agree 100% with him (including AOA I believe) and instead of just debating, calls all his percieved enemies "fags" and "queers" etc..

In a way, I feel for him. I think the autism diagnosis must have crushed him to his core. Men seem to take those things a lot harder than women do, and from what I've read of his blog, I think he is heartbroken and needs the blog as an outlet. I just worry for his son.

Chris,

I'm very sorry to hear that happened to you. Did you get investigated for child abuse? When Jaymes threw Sierra, she had bleeding on the brain, and they thought I had shaken her (shaken the well behaved non autistic one? what? logically, you'd think if one had to be shaken, it'd been Jaymes). We got into a hospital room at 2am, and were greeted by 2 police officers who interrogated me half the night. Even though the Xrays showed no signs of abuse, and the scan of her brain showed the bleeding on the sides (which is consistant with her falling that way I told them she did) rather than if she had had bleeding on the front and back of the brain, which would have been consistant with shaking.

They actually put a hold on Sierra, and kept her at the hospital for days after she was fine to go home because they were trying to get an investigation set up in our county. Turns out they dropped the ball and never contacted the other guy, finally they did the investigation and I got a formal apology.

But yeah, I hope you didn't have to deal with that. it's hard enough to have a baby hurt badly because of your other baby, but then to have abuse allegations on top of that.. Ugh. I still can't believe how fast it happened, I was sitting right there with the kids.

Hope your little guy is ok!

Terri Lewis

Amber,

You say, ". . .if one of you posted about how your little one died of the measles, I'd be right there consoling you even though it -was- your own fault."

Well, Amber, in my book--that is a very thinly covered "I told ya so" dance--to use your phrase.

If I make a decision not to vaccinate my child against the measles, and my child subsequently catches, and then dies, from the measles, it is *not* my fault.

It is not my fault any more than it's my fault if I vaccinate my child, and my child becomes severely autistic due to those vaccines, or dies from those vaccines.

Vaccines do take lives as well as save them, you know, and that's true for some people, no matter how carefully spaced apart they are, no matter if it's the first vaccine a baby ever received.

The more I study the history of vaccination, the more lives I see that have been lost, and I begin to wonder about the claims as to how many lives have been saved.

In any case, if I'm a reasonably loving parent, and have made the best, most reasonable decision I can based on the knowledge I have at the time, a tragic outcome is not my fault.

If I note that there are no measles cases in my community, and we do not travel; if I have statistics in front of me that consider a few hundred cases of measles in the entire U.S. to be a scary outbreak, I can reasonably conclude that my child is unlikely to catch measles.

I can further look at disability and death statistics among children and infants who do catch measles, and calculate that: even if my child does catch measles (a chance, where I live, that seems to be less than 1 in 1,000), he is very unlikely to be the one in 1,000 who experiences brain damage *if* he even gets sick, or the 1 in 5,000 who dies, especially since I am comfortable in my knowledge of holistic ways to treat measles, and know what to do with a little Vitamin A and a little Vitamin C.

I can further use my knowledge of how likely my child is to be damaged from a measles vaccine, either given alone, or as part of the MMR (which may be the only choice available as I make my decision), and how likely my child is to become disabled (either with autism or with other brain damage) or to die from complications of autism--which often includes seizures, accidental death after running off, and/or life-threatening food allergies. All because I decided to vaccinate.

All of these statistics (if I had had them at the time) would have led me to the opposite decision of the one I actually made, and I would *not* have vaccinated my child against measles, which is typically a mild and short disease, especially relative to autism.

To repeat: I vaccinated my child, and my child became autistic.

If I had had more information, I would not have vaccinated my child, and most certainly, I would not have vaccinated him against measles.

There are other factors: a parent who might otherwise vaccinate may learn of terrible vaccine reactions, even fatal ones, in the family history, and decide against vaccination for that reason.

In any case, if I make a decision not to vaccinate, and that decision is based on the best hard science and the best statistics available to me at the time, or even if that decision is made based on just a gut feeling, I am most certainly *not* responsible if my child catches measles and then is one of the very few to actually die from it. (And please--spare me the statistics from the Dark Ages; I am talking about the current chances in the U.S.).

Nor do I think that you are responsible for your child's autism, Amber, although--to the best of my current knowledge--I believe you are putting your children at greater risk through continued vaccination than you would be if you chose not to vaccinate, especially given what little I already know of your childrens' health issues (the part that has been discussed here at AOA).

That is just to the best of my knowledge, and you clearly think otherwise.

That said, there is no way humanly possible to eliminate all risk that our children may become sick, either with an acute illness, such as measles, or a chronic illness, such as autism.

There is no way to completely protect our children from a freak, accidental death, or even a death that we conclude we might have prevented "if only." (If only I hadn't vaccinated, if only I *had* vaccinated, if only I hadn't let my child cross the street, even though he was eight years old and we had practiced and practiced and practiced.)

In my understanding, to blame the death of children on parents who choose *not* to vaccinate is morally wrong.

It is also morally wrong to blame parents who choose to vaccinate, and then subsequently experience the death and disability of their children, provided those parents attempted in good faith to do the right thing for their children.

And as far as doctors (and society in general)--there is a truly disgusting lack of concern over what happens to our children, to the extent that doctors give bad advice, and actively discourage parents from using valuable biomedical interventions!

I congratulate you for your efforts to find a good pediatrician for your family, and to share that information with others.

But that does not excuse--there *IS* no excuse for--doctors who turn their backs on children who are sick!

Finally, as for John Best, he is *NOT* just wallowing in his own grief and anger, but the very existence of his blog is an attempt--no matter how distasteful you may find it--to warn others of what he has learned the hard way, and to prevent others from experiencing the anguish that he and his son experience. And yes, he says some hateful things, nasty things that are totally off-topic, and some factually wrong things. I'm aware of that.

But if he truly cared for no one but himself and his son, he wouldn't have the blog at all.

I daresay he has helped people.

You have too, I imagine, but there's a little "let's stir it up" attitude that comes out in some of your comments here, and your just-slightly-above-it-all tone--well, it rubs me the wrong way, you might say.

Still, we are all in this together, and I wish you the best.

Terri Lewis

Chris

Hi Amber, this is Chris (yet again, if you can stomach another post from me, I am actually VERY glad you wrote more and gave me some insight to what life is like with your son, THANK YOU).

When you said "He has landed his sister in the hospital" I just wanted to cry. Just last month, my daughter did the exact same thing to her one-month-old baby brother - landed him in the hospital. He was napping in his crib next to our bed and I was sitting at our computer desk, which is three feet away from the crib and the master bed. My dd climbed into her brother's crib, picked him up, and tossed him onto the floor. All with me right in the room. We have five children total and my daughter is child number two, so we had been through two other infants without even so much as her trying to hit them, so for her to jump in his crib and just fling him out was so horrific. He never lost consciousness but he had a hairline skull fracture so he was kept overnight for observation; it was horrible. My husband was deployed and I had to deal with the whole situation on my own; it was seriously the worst night of my life thus far. I wondered if there was anyone out there whose autistic child had put a sibling in the hospital. He never leaves my arms now, basically, so that she cannot hurt him again. I'm glad to know I'm not alone.

My daughter is finally starting to use PECS consistently, thank goodness, and we ARE getting a few words out of her.

You know, I never used to be an "I told you so" person either, really. I hate that the last three years have done that to me (but only with regards to this topic). I always said no matter what happened I wouldn't become an angry bitter bitch, but that is exactly what has happened at least THIS year. Things have gotten a lot harder now that she is five. She didn't even used to be aggressive until now. It makes me so sad.

Amber

I think some of what I said came off wrong. I wasn't saying anything against those of you here on AOA. I was saying the opposite- that you AOA people are the first on the anti-vax/safer vax side that have been reasonable. What I was trying to express is that prior to coming here, I had only dealt with people like John Best (hatingautism.blogspot.com) who truly are fanatical a'la PETA. I find the conversation here very interesting and I've learned a fair bit.

Now, I'll try and touch on everything that was said (way to write long posts for meto reply to!)

On the Amanda Peet thing- I wouldn't so much care if you didn't mourn for her child if he/she became Autistic. I was just a little disturbed by the whole "I'd be the one pouring salt in her wounds" comment. I'm the type of person who, even if I think someone has done something to cause harm to their child (i.e. let their kid fall into a pool and he drowned)I still feel terribly sad for the kid, the parent, and the situation. I'm not one to do the "I told ya so" dance I guess. we're all different. I wouldn't mourn anyone's child with Autism though. It's not a death sentence, so many worse things could happen than an Autism dx. I would not celebrate it either though. It's not desireable, and not a blessing. It's just part of our lives, and how we deal with it is what matters.

Jaymes is almost 5, but he is at the cognitive level of a 1-2 year old. He has violent meltdowns and is very self injurious. He has sent his little sister to the hospital, and is usually one big bruise. We're trying out different meds, and he is actually doing well in therapy, which is great. But yes, he is at the more severe end of the spectrum. Lately I have been trying to be more positive, and only blog about the good things happening, as focusing on the bad times takes the heart out of me. Jaymes is not potty trained either, but thankfully medicaid covers diapers and we're working towards it. It's taken a good 3 years for Jaymes to even begin to tolerate therapy. For the first 3 years, all he did was scream and scream. But our OT toughed it out, and now he's starting to come around. It takes time, some kids longer than others. Hang tough, you'll get there. Jaymes is in school, and has OT/ST/PT every week. We also do a lot of work at home. We do not do ABA, and gave up on the biomed stuff due to money and a lack of response from Jaymes. word wise, Jaymes is almost at my 2 year old's level. He has about 25 words, 10 of which he uses regularly. Mostly he screams and grabs.

I do not do any of the autism or mommy forums, I stick to the Fugly Horse of the Day board. I tried Foggy rock, but got sick of being told I was killing my kids with vaccines, so I left.The Autism Acceptance Project board was too much "yay Autism, I don't want my kids to change or grow" so i gave up there too. I prefer a more moderate board, and that does not exist yet.I had debated making one on my site (dontbitethedog.com) but I don't know that anyone would use it and it costs me to add the feature.

Now, I do not think Autism is necessarily genetic. I have no idea what causes it. I know we've had extensive genetic testing done, to no result. I know Sierra is entirely "normal" but also has some of Jaymes health issues (lack of growth, Jaymes is 28 pounds at 5 and Sierra is 22 at 2). I do not think vaccines have anything to do with it, but I do believe that Sierra's recent illness was related to the MMR and flu shot she got a week prior. I think it's best to give the vaccs, but to do them spread out, very cautiously to avoid a reaction. I do think it is important to the child's safety, and the safety of children exposed to that child, that they be vaccinated. That's just my opinion, take it or leave it.

You don't read my blog, so I apologize. I thought you did, based on some of the things you'd said. You might want to read my most recent post though, titled Age of Autism. It explains a lot more than I'm going to go into here. In that post I did apologize for comments I have made in the past, and at some point I'll go back and edit some of my wording in old posts. Now that I have seen some sanity from anti-vaxxers, my opinions have changed a lot. Kim Stagliano really did change my mind, and for that I'm grateful.Not to say my stance on vaccs has changed, it has not, but I have without a doubt gained a respect for a lot of you and your views. It's been a learning experience.

As for the medical community being nasty... don't accept that! We switched pediatricians until we found one who respected my feelings on the vaccs and worked with me. Despite being what the docs call a "good autism mommy", I have had my fair share of asshole docs behaving very poorly toward me. So we dumped them. I accept no less than 100% from every provider who sees Jaymes. It takes time, but you find a good fit. I'm actually compiling a list of "autism friendly" doctors on my website (not the blog) to aid people in finding that fit. It'd be more effective if more people would give me pediatrician info, but it'll come around eventually!


On this... "Well, do you think it is terrible that people, doctors and nurses included, think that a child who becomes disabled or worse yet DIES due to a vaccine, think that those children are "collateral damage" or that their lives were "less than"?"

I don't think the doctors think those kids were less than anything- I think they think the parents killed their kids. As professionals they should keep their mouths shut and treat everyone the same, but as humans I guess it's hard for them to do that. Anyone who loses a child deserves some kindness, assuming they didn't shake their baby to death or something like that.

Anyway, to reiterate: My beef is not with any of the AOA crowd.It's the crazies like John Best and some of the Foggy Rock crew who have given a really unfavorable impression of a group, as a whole. Like I said, talking to reasonable folks is really enlightening.

Chris

Oh, and I wouldn't "take pleasure" in Amanda Peete's daughter becoming autistic because it wouldn't be fair to her daughter and her daughter cannot help who her mother is, but like I said, no, I wouldn't feel the least bit sorry for Amanda herself or any other parent with such an attitude if they ended up eating crow someday for their thoughtless remarks towards parents living something they have no comprehension of. I've pretty much found that you need to be careful when you wind up on one side of a debate of calling the other side names because you could end up eating a lot of crow someday. I actually speak from experience on that one. For example, before my children were born I could not stand people who medicated their children with psychotropic drugs or who gave their children sleeping pills because their child had autism or ADHD or some other "disorder". I remember thinking what lazy parents, that's just terrible that they would even consider giving those harmful drugs to their children, those kids just need more discipline, they just don't want to parent, blah, blah. And guess what? A few years after making those remarks I got a child with behavioral issues. My daughter with ASD did not sleep through the night for THREE YEARS STRAIGHT. She would wake up in the middle of the night at two a.m. and be wide awake until dawn. I seriously began to have some compassion and understanding (and a big helping of crow as a midnight snack, like I said) in regards to people whose children had brain/neurological issues and were using medications to help their child sleep or function in class and I felt really bad for thinking a few years earlier that their parents were just being lazy. No, we have never needed to medicate my daughter, but I no longer speak with cruelty of those who do use medication to control their child's ADHD or autism symptoms. Because I at last get it. And if another mother who I had judged harshly flat out told me while I was going through all those sleep issues that it kind of serves me right because a few years ago I talked out of my @ss about something that I really truly had no real clue about and I really hurt her feelings in regards to her parenting and her own child, then I would have to admit she is kind of right. Because my judgement in that area WAS uncalled for and I really WAS talking about something I could not fully comprehend because I hadn't lived it myself. I hope that explains what I mean and that you don't find *that* disturbing.

Do you want to know what *I* personally find disturbing? I have actually seen parents, including people from "the other side" right here at AoA, say that if vaccines caused their child's autism, they want to write a "thank you" letter to the drug companies for making their child autistic. Wow. Just wow. If you knew for sure that your child was made disabled by a health product and would not ever be able to reach the full potential that he or she could have reached in life, you would write the company that makes the product and THANK THEM for crippling your child? THAT is absolutely creepy. And what really creeps me out further are the parents with "normal" kids who commend those people for having "the right attitude". Wow again. More autism please! *THAT*, my friend, is what is disturbing, and I daresay disgusting.

Chris

I actually didn't even read your blog, Amber. I'm talking about different remarks I have seen on other message boards. I did read the story below about your daughter. I do hope for the sake of her future everything turns out okay. Having two children on the spectrum while going through what apparently you are going through would not be a cakewalk, that's for sure.

If you read parenting message boards, there are two categories of autism moms. There are the "good autism mommies" and the "bad autism mommies". The "good autism mommies" are the ones who think it is purely genetic and do not think the environment or vaccines or whatever hurt their child and the medical community loves them. The "bad autism mommies" are the ones who believe the opposite, that the environment (and for some that may include vaccines) is hurting our children. I guess I fall under the "bad autism mommies" umbrella because I really do believe that the environment is hurting our children and that genetics, if they have anything to do with it, are a very small part of the picture. That's why I like "Age of Autism". Other parents who are fighting for their children the same way not constantly being berated by other parents for not loving our children or feeling the way they think we should feel because it is not the way parents like you feel, or being called nuts, lunatics, in denial, and the like. My daughter is a pretty severe case, we have made minimal progress with her even after two and a half years of intensive school, she still speaks very little and it is not consistent, she still is not potty-trained, and she is more like a large two-year-old in many ways and it is getting scary because her body is the size of a five-year-old. I don't know how old or how high-functioning your son is (see, I really didn't read your blog), but if you have a moderate to severe child, things get pretty hairy when the child starts to grow bigger and parts of their brain do not grow with them, and after four years of knowing she is autistic, I am quite sick of people's remarks and I have run out of patience with people who think I should do something a certain way or feel a certain way, to be honest.

I actually still do vax my kids, if you can believe it. I do it much, much later than infancy and I split them up and space them out, but I do still do some of them. I will never use the "traditional" schedule EVER again, though, and if anyone asks (no, I am NOT militant, if you can believe it, I rarely ever bring up vaccines with other parents IRL), I tell them I will never use the regular schedule again, period. I recommend Dr. Sears "The Vaccine Book" to anyone who has questions, and Dr. Cave's "What your Doctor May Not Tell you about Childhood Shots" and tell them to make their own decision.

As far as non-vaxers being as militant as PETA, I have yet to meet one that was. I suppose the person who told you that you ruined your son's life by vaxing him would fall under that category (I've honestly never heard of any non-vaxer saying that to a parent).

You say it is terrible that I would not feel badly for Amanda Peete if Frankie got autism? Well, do you think it is terrible that people, doctors and nurses included, think that a child who becomes disabled or worse yet DIES due to a vaccine, think that those children are "collateral damage" or that their lives were "less than"? Because I am tired of seeing those kinds of remarks from people. It hurts to know that my children's pediatrician who professes to care about all children. Except children like my daughter. If her shots had anything to do with her autism, she is a throwaway, a sacrificial lamb. A child who dies of measles is a tragedy and a horrible loss in the eyes of my children's pediatrician, but if a child dies of a vaccine reaction, they are not important to the same pediatrician. Do you know what it is like to walk around every day knowing that plenty of people see your child as "less than" because of that? It hurts. It hurts me so much. It honestly makes me not want to take ANY of my children (I have four other children) to our pediatrician because I know that he doesn't think preventing my daughter's condition from happening to other children is important.

It has nothing to do with "not loving my daughter as she is" or needing to "get over it" the way the "it's all about genetics" crowd does. It has everything to do with the fact that I DO love her but I know that the medical community sees her as less than or not worth the trouble or that this many kids like her isn't even a problem.

We are a military family, and 1 in 25 American military children now has an autism spectrum diagnosis. Genetics, my ass. There is a reason for it. And if the medical community wants to continue to ignore our children and this problem or continue to blame genetics, then they have no business berating those of us who are trying our darndest by taking matters into our own hands and treating our own kids by whatever is necessary, whether "conventional" or not, whether it works in the long run or not. And other autism parents who want to sit back and call us "lunatics" or tell us that we need to be more like them and feel more like them need to butt out. If you do not want to biomedically treat your child, fine. As for me and my house, leave us alone and let us handle this without the name-calling, please.

Craig Willoughby

Amber,
One of the reasons that you perceive so much antagonism from some people who frequent this site is because we are sick and tired of being ridiculed, bullied, villified, mocked, and called idiots. There are so many sites out there who treat us like dirt and then come over here and whine about how we mistreat them that we all get sick of it. One thing that angers me more than anything is hypocrisy, and I've seen entirely too much of it with the Vaccine Mafia.

Now, that being said, I respect your views, and if you feel that vaccines are important to the health of your family, then I'm all for it. But you also need to understand where all of us are coming from. If someone comes on here and tells me that I'm killing people for not vaccinating, then I'm going to put them in their place (all of my kids are vaccinated, which is why I'm pro-safe vaccine). The reason why we go to some of these sites and speak up is because we want to give parents alternate points of view. If we can prevent one child from descending into autism, then we can sleep at night.

Also, I'm very happy to hear that your daughter is doing better. I'm truly sorry that some people were so cruel as to mock your plight.

Amber

Oh, and Chris. The only one of your quotes that could be credited to me would be the one that that you reworded as "Oh, so you'd rather have a dead child than an autistic child"

What I said was "when it comes down to it, I would rather have an Autistic child than a dead one. It's a risk that I'm willing to take."

I do think that some people (John Best) for example) get so caught up in anger and grief, and forget that they have a child to care for. So yes, to those people, get over it. Focus on treatment, not what you cannot change.

Amber

Chris,

Based on your comments in your post, I would think you'd see that you're being just as nasty as anyone else.

Something I have noticed is that those of us who are Pro Vaccine DO speak our minds about parents who will not vaccinate, but we tend to do it on our own blogs. The people who come to -other- peoples blogs and mouth off end up being the anti-vaccine folks.

Amanda Peet was insensitive, but you have to keep in mind the other side, who say things like "You horrible parents are murdering babies!!!!" They're pretty similar. There will be extremists on every side of every issue, and if it bothers you, why read what they have to say? I know I didn't force you to read my blog, and when I come to other people's blog, I make a real effort to be polite even if I disagree.

The fact that you'd take pleasure in Amanda Peets child becoming Autistic is very disturbing.

I don't approve of others not vaccinating their kids, but if one of you posted about how your little one died of the measels, i'd be right there consoling you even though it -was- your own fault.

I didn't ask for sympathy with Sierra being sick- I was posting on my blog to keep friends and family updated on her condition.I appreciate very much all the well wishes I got from people, even people here, but I was not begging for a chorus of "Poooor Amber!"

In general, I remain very impressed with how intelligent and well thought out most of the posters (ok, maybe not you, but i'm sure you knew that) on AOA are.

A few bad seeds have given the anti-vaccination people a horrible reputation. Those folks bring PETA to mind- fanatical. But I'm finally getting to see the good side of that, thanks to Kim, and (as I've shown in my blog) I'm developing a much more flattering picture of you guys in general.

Chris

Well, I won't be quite so diplomatic in my remarks and I'm sure I'll be called out on it and maybe even kicked off this site for good.

I have no problem if someone wants to do every single vaccine, on time, no exceptions to the rule. That is their child, their choice. I used to be that person (with the exception of the Hep B at birth). What I DO have a problem with are people who are not only pro-vax, but anti-choice, and think it is their God-given duty to mock those who choose differently. Even when I vaxed on schedule, I knew there were those who did not, and I never once ridiculed or mocked them or called them names.

When militant pro-vaxers carry on and on and on and call other parents who choose to do vaxes differently or not at all names or say that what we do should be illegal, honestly, when their own children have vaccine reactions, I do not feel the least bit sorry for them. I pity their child and I pray for the child's recovery, but I do not care one whit if the child's mother who snidely called us names or told other parents to quit looking for something to blame suffers from terrible heartbreak, worry, and mental anguish. Quite frankly, if little Frankie Peete became autistic or terribly ill after a vaccine and Amanda Peete were standing there crying a mother's anguish, I would probably be all over her throwing salt on her gaping wounds. Parasites, huh? You deserve every tear you are crying right now. Welcome to our world. Welcome to the world where on other weblogs doctors and nurses are constantly painting you out as some whiny, pathetic, emotional waif who cannot accept that she is genetically flawed. Welcome to a world where doctors and nurses, who take an oath to first do no harm write your beautiful child off as a throwaway piece of garbage and there is nothing you can do about it.

Some hurtful comments I have gotten as a mother who believes autism is environmental (from people like Amber, no less):

"Get over it, learn to love your daughter as she is" (Oh yes, that's just it, I just don't love her@@) That's why I've gone broke in the last year trying to help her with different therapies, both conventional and alternative.)

"Oh, so you'd rather have a dead child than an autistic child" I see this scathing, snotty remark on parenting message boards all the time from lucky parents of "normal" children who worship the vaccines and also from doctors and nurses. Well, duh, of course if I had to choose between autism and death I would certainly choose life, but I don't think the alternative to 36 shots pounded into your veins by age two is death. Give me a break. That remark is hurtful, divisive, and uncalled for. God help the first doctor or nurse in real life who snottily says that to my face at a well-child check when I tell them I plan to delay vaxes. I will probably end up in jail.

And of course there are all the names we get called from the militant pro-vax Nazi parents. "Lunatic", "parasite", "child-abuser", "selfish", "whiner", just to name a few.

So when a person of that ilk has it happen to their child, nope, I cannot say I have compassion for that person or what they are feeling (but I do have compassion for their child). Because even when I was pro-vax on schedule, I never ONCE said such horrible things or had such horrid thoughts about people who believed differently. I have not been everywhere, seen everything, had everyone's experiences, so I knew not to judge. I have no sympathy when someone else who rudely judges finds herself eating a big plate of crow. None.

Stagmom

Hi, Amber. I read your blog too. I truly hope your daughter is on the mend. You must have been so scared. She's in my prayers and you are too. None of has an easy road to travel when autism comes to our homes. If we can help you in any way, we're ready. People call us names and disagree with us and that's fine. But we're only here to help the kids.

I'm way older than you so I can say, "Take care, Sweetie" and hope it doesn't sound condescending.

Kim, Managing Editor of Age of Autism and Mom to Mia, Gianna and Bella.

doodle

Amber,

You're thinking about possibilities, examining evidence from your child, and using your own judgement, the same things that everyone else here is doing. All of that is going to see you through challenges more than blindly accepting one side over another. In that regard you are on neither "side", and are just looking out for your kids' best interests, so no need to argue.

Hope your little one feels better.

Amber DBTD

Since some of the comments here are in regard to my daughter, I thought I'd reply with what I can contribute...

I apologize if my comments about anti-vaccine parents were offensive. Most of my anti-anti-vaxxer comments on my blog end up posted right after being berated by someone for ruining my son's life by vaccinating him... I rant when angry. I will try and be more respectful in future postings.

I don't believe that vaccines cause Autism. But that does not mean I don't believe they cause reactions and illnesses. I am willing to acknowledge that Sierra's illness could have been in part a nasty reaction to her shots, the timing wasn't coincidence.

A few days after sierra was discharged, I noticed her ear was swollen and red. When I removed her earring, a ridiculous amount of pus poured out. Since that's been seen, cleaned, and treated, no more fever. So I don't know which thing it was- a severe infection in the flesh of her ear would have definately caused fever, but I also think the rash was something with her vaccines.

Due to her reaction, I will be much more cautious in how many vaccs Sierra gets and how close together, but she will have them all. Reactions are rare, and I do not want to lose either of my children to a disease that they would have otherwise been safe from.

I won't argue with you, vaccinate if you want, or don't. Whatever you choose is your right.

The one thing I said in my post stands- Sierra did not suddenly become Autistic from the shots. They may have caused a fever reaction, but they do not cause Autism.

I appreciate the respectful discussion on this site, and will be more sensitive to the other "side" of the debate in the future.

Kathy Blanco

There is no such thing as a green vaccine in susceptible populations. Who is susceptible, and who will point to the one biomarker that will risk a vaccine injury? Since ther is none (why not?)we can take large guesses, like autoimmunity/viral/bacterial diseases in family, mother has psoriasis, vitiligo, hashimotos thyroiditis, celiac diseases, lyme disease (mostly undiagnosed in our population), rheumatic fever histories, depression, CFS/FS, alcoholism (high in our population, probably due to propensity because glucose is wrong) and even obesity which caues leptin releases to baby brain, essentially damaging it too. These all have an impact on a baby to be, and if that baby is subjected to vaccines at the current schedule, along WITH OUR TOXIC WORLD (FOODS, WATER, AIR, etc) modified schedule, damn, just one vaccine, the baby is at risk for not only autism, but other minimal brain dysfunctions to ADHD, to dyslexia, to defiant disorders etc. They are at risk for celiac, they are at risk for asthma, diabetes, SIDS, etc. There is no good argument to greening a vaccine NONE ZERO ZILCH. All of them are crap and are to be avoided at all costs. This helped my grandchildren to not have any signs of autism, nada, nilch. They are intelligent, healthy, never had an ear infection EVER, and they are talking in full sentences at two. If autism is so genetic, and if it is not caused by vaccines, then why are they not autistic, when they come from a family with a MALE and FEMALE with autism, who's mom had autoimmune issues and were heavily vaccinated? The odds would be totally against them. If Macque monkeys get autism with the vaccine schedule, that's good enough science for me. My other science, not fiction, is my life. I did not hallucinate my kids high pitch scream as just a two year old tantrum, nor did I hallucinate a fever of 105 and arching backs. Indeed, damage was done. Spare me the better for society...they are worse off for society. If only I could turn the clock back to what I know now...you young moms are lucky you know, do you realize that?

BARBARA

HOW many babys and children will you kill before it is all done. isnt it enought we kill 4,000 newbornes a day with our abortions ? we are luseing it folks. our values, our morals, our standards.our country is going to HELL.WE are way off track. iwould trade the 50s for today in a minute. its like every one is living in a big white FOG. i dont think you know what you are doing.

MacGoddess

Twyla...I can provide the link to the blog. It's called Don't Bite The Dog and it can be found here: http://dontbitethedog.blogspot.com/

Just click on 'previous posts' two or three times to get to the beginning of Sierra's fever and subsequent hospital stay.

I found it interesting that she has also posted this:

'Which side am I on?
I'll admit that, being new to the online Autism blogging community, I'm a little slow on certain aspects of things. So I am a little confused. I guess in my mind, there were two camps, so to speak... The pro-vacc folks, and the anti-vacc folks. So what's with the Neurodiversity folks? Am I automatically one of those because I am pro-vaccine?

I know very little about ND except that I cannot login to their site by using the link on Squid's page. LOL.

From what I have read, it looks like ND is opposing research for a cure for Autism? Or is this incorrect? I -did- read it from a blog that doesn't like the ND people...

Anyone care to explain it to me?'

She is also having marital problems, that combined with everything else, makes her extremely vulnerable, which has me worried for this family that I don't even know.

Twyla

"Anyone? Anyone?" - Can you provide a link to the blog you quoted from?

Gatogorra

Rich (I'll bet) Green-Away! (sounds like a brand of bug repellant for environmental autism parents. It's working.) needs a rewrite:

Green our vaccines?
The only green you will see by getting rid of vaccines or decreasing their use is the greenbacks in the public coffers and SpEd funds which won't have to be spent on umpty-thousands of new cases of autism and related learning disabilities each year on top of what's spent for the already-damaged collateral-- the same bucks which won't be lining the pockets of vaccine manufacturers.

Media Scholar

Dan Olmstead should talk to this guy:

http://www.douglassreport.com/reports/vaccines.html?gclid=CLze28TttpYCFQVuswodOFd_Kw

Anyone? Anyone?

Since I am certain that this post on AoA will reach the folks at ECBT... Perhaps they would like to address situations like the following. There is a mother who writes a public blog about her children (has one son with autism) and it seems as if she is in the "vaccines-are-safe-no-issues" category. On October 3 she wrote the following in regards to her daughter's 2 year well child checkup:

"Then the vaccs. She screamed for the MMR, that one stings. She also had the flu vacc that goes up the nose. She also needed Hep A, but I elected to do that in a month. Hate to overload her with so many at once.

So, anti vaccine lunatics... We shall see if my daughter, who has just been evaluated by Early Intervention and pronounced entire "normal", "neurotypical" or whatever else you'd like to call it... we'll see if after having her MMR, she magically becomes Autistic. And if she does, I'll make a formal apology".

I'll ignore the "anti vaccine lunatics" comment considering this mother is very young and she's going through some rough times in general. Let's jump ahead to her post on October 11 (8 days later).

"The 2nd thing was that fever Sierra has had all week got a lot worse. She was 104.2, and barely moving so I took her to the ER at Moses Cone, in Greensboro by my mom's house. 7 hours later, we transferred to Wake Forest/Baptist here in Winston. Sierra has a chest Xray that showed some sort of viral thing, had to be catheterized (sp?) and have an IV put in. The IV ended up in her artery, so they removed it".

"She has a weird rash on both elbows/arms. The area is red and swollen, with tiny little bubbles all over it. It's very hot to touch. They drew a line around it to see if it grows tonight. she has a new IV, it took 2 failed attempts to get it in and much crying".

Then, on October 12:

"I'm getting annoyed, the doctor seems to think this is fine, and it is not. Sierra doesn't normally lay around like a limp noodle. This is not her".

So, let's see.... A little girl goes to the doctor for her 2 year well baby visit. She gets a few vaccinations and 8 days later she is hospitalized with strange rashes and a high fever... and some sort of "viral thing"... Call me an anti-vaccine lunatic but that sounds like a vaccine reaction if I've ever heard of one.

Now, it looks as if the young girl is doing better and I believe that we are all in agreement that we wish her all the best and she will very likely be just fine. What needs to be addressed however is that there are many children who do not recover from these "vaccine reactions". How about those children who have ongoing systematic seizures following their vaccinations? How about ongoing GI problems? Certainly this little girls body did not react very well to these vaccinations given to her. What should her mother do going forward?

Can anyone from ECBT comment on this situation? Thanks in advance :)

Sorsha Anderson

This may seem trivial, but I can't really understand why this group hasn't changed its name. ECBT? Every child by two... what? Has 20 of the 36 vaccines recommended by 5? Has 1/3 of the lifelong required vaccines? 'Every child by two' has 10 years before they will need 5 shots for middle school? I mean, what in the world are they even talking about?

Becky Estepp

Anyone else struck by the irony of his last name? Greenaway. Come on, are you guys messing with me?

Lisa @ TACA

JB

Nice work - again. I could not agree more - families are wising up to the political games these ECBT and vaccine manufacturers are publishing. I would say their results have weakened quite a bit. When are gonna switch to the new advertising campaign "Just do it cause I told ya so and trust us please!!!" It is getting pretty sad.

My favorite is the number of times in the grocery stores and my day to day errands I hear folks talking about vaccines.

Recently in line at the pharmacy (for my son's ileitis meds - he takes 2, they help and I am grateful but why he has to take them is another story.) The pharmacist was "offering" flu shots to the elderly couple. The couple sad "I will take my chances with the flu vs. whats in that vial." I gently high five'd them on the way out.

People are wising up. People are listening. Its a good thing.

Lisa

Sue M.

"Green our vaccines?
The only green you will see by getting rid of vaccines or decreasing their use is the grass growing on the graves of children needlessly killed by preventable infections".

Wow, that's bold ... using that quote from a quack on his email signature.

I guess Mr. Greenaway (interesting last name, considering the topic and his signature)... doesn't consider babies who die from SIDS or other vaccine reactions to be worthy enough for discussion. They have graves as well, Mr. Greenaway.

nhokkanen

Grotesque definitely describes Mark Crislip, MD, who is responsible for "the Persifalgers Puscast, a podcast review of Infectious Diseases..."

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?page_id=228

If you Google images for "Mark Crislip MD" you find a request for financial donations, and a copyright for a company called "Pusware LLC."

http://tinyurl.com/62ffkr

And they wonder why people are losing trust in them....

Laura

Every time I hear the "herd" argument, I can't help but visually picture a herd in a stampede. My child was crushed by the "herd" in this vaccine stampede. I'm too busy way back at the site of the stampedes she was subjected to, trying to get her medical and behavioral attention, to give a crap what is best for the "herd" that is way ahead of her.

jennifer

Right on, J.B.!!!!!
Pamela, I liked your "figuring" -and that's not even including SIDS, ADHD, etc. so when you factor many of those cases that are linked to the vaccinating, the 'problems VS lives saved' argument gets even worse!! Those people at the CDC and ECBT, etc. are f-ing scared and they should be.
Laura, I'm sure you're telling that poor couple with the vaccine-injured baby to document everything (maybe even film)
Obviously, the only thing green concerning Greenway is MONEY.

Steve

"It seems very weird to me that Wyeth would have such a large stake in the vaccine program. Why is it that they are hell bent on doing away with millions of kids?"

Here is your answer:
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2007/09/19/prevnar-problems-at-wyeth.aspx

Prevnar is largely seen in the investment community as a product that saved the Wyeth from financial ruin.

Anne Dachel

In the Vaccine Book by Dr. Bob Sears, http://ecochildsplay.com/2008/04/25/the-vaccine-book-by-dr-sears-offers-a-safer-vaccine-schedule/, he offers some sound advice:

"I have put together a vaccine schedule that gets children fully vaccinated, but does so in a way that minimizes the theotetical risk of vaccines. It’s the best of both worlds of disease prevention and safe vaccination.

"The alternative suggests only one aluminum-containing vaccine during infant years

"It gives no more than two vaccines at any one time to limit and spread out exposure to numerous chemicals and potential side effects
"It starts out with most important vaccines, the ones that prevent the diseases that are most threatening to infants.

"It delays shots for diseases that are usually fairly mild for infants."

The interesting point about ECBT and all the pharma-funded outcry against anyone claiming that the current schedule is dangerous, is that they're desperate. If vaccines were the wonder drugs, totally safe and above reproach, then why wouldn't they simply sell themselves? Why are the vaccine promoters constantly on the defensive?

If wacked-out parents had only junk science on their side linking vaccines to autism, wouldn't the public and the media quickly move on? Why doesn't the controversy go away?

Maybe because there are just too many affected kids everywhere and just too many parents all saying the same thing.

Good luck ECBT et al. You're going to need it.

Anne Dachel
Media editor


Pamela

The Numbers Prove the Benefits Do Not Outweigh the Risks, as Stated By Dr. Renee Jenkins the Morning of the ECBT Press Conference

This article reminds me of the Good Morning America interview of Dr. Renee Jenkins the morning of the ECBT press conference. She was quoted as saying that, "97-plus percent of children don't have these kinds of defects, and so when you look at what the (vaccine) risk is to children, and then what the benefits are, the benefits far outweigh the risks that occur."

David Kirby confirmed with GMA that this statement was made in context of autism. And note; she is making the correlation for a link between vaccines and autism…she at least is not denying one. http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/08/david-kirby-o-3.html

This got me thinking, if she is admitting that 97+% (3%) of children have autism then how many is that per year against the number that of lives saved through vaccination that the CDC claims each year.

Now I am no math whiz...so readers please check me here. When I ran the numbers of 3% of the crude birth rate for 2007 (cl14.18 births per 1,000 people U.S) I get 128,104 based on a total population of 330,000,000. The CDC claims that vaccination saves 33,000 lives per year. That’s 128,000 cases of autism and 33,000 lives saved through vaccination (and many say this number is inflated).

Now, many might say, "well we are talking about deaths verses a neurological disorder." My answer is, understanding the true risk of complication of diseases like measles and whooping cough; I would take my chances nursing my child through them many times over before risking autism. Not to mention most of us are NOT talking about anti- vaccine, we are talking about safer vaccines.

The bottom line; I think we've long past the point of benefits outweigh the risks. Especially when one understands we do not have the proper science to support that.

Cathy Jameson

J.B.,

Fantastic article as usual. Thanks for sharing the information. The signature line quote is a doozie. It scares the crap outta me to read about someone so full of hate toward our community here on AoA. Hate and greed go hand in hand and you have to wonder why our precious children became the source of their evil ways.

So sad.

Cathy Jameson

What's with Wyeth?

"Every Child By Two is a three-person organization, housed out of a tiny office in a rough part of Washington, D.C. that happens to receive the majority of their funding from Wyeth, a vaccine maker."

It seems very weird to me that Wyeth would have such a large stake in the vaccine program. Why is it that they are hell bent on doing away with millions of kids? What kind of a monstrous twisted mind would actually put money upfront for such a hideous enterprise. Why do they want to be "found out" this way? Who is the mastermind of this endeavor? To my mind this would seem to be the most evil and vicious person of them all, don't you think? Anyone know who this person is?

HealthWatcher

Please stop that BS about a better schedule... The vaccine theory is a fraud that has been the hypnotic mantra for way too long to generate disease for ''proffits''.
Listen to Dr Andrew Moulden interviews:
www.amassnetwork.com
www.brainguardmd.com
It is going to change your life and point of view forever.
Microvascular strokes !
Slow death by lack of oxygen to the tissues, not only the brain.

ObjectiveAutismDad

J.B., Very nicely written. I think you hit the nail on the head. Not too many people know of any children who have suffered greatly from the acute illnesses that the vaccines seek to eradicate. But they do live down the street, or are related to someone with autism -- and that is a lot more scary.

Stagmom

ECBT is concerned with a very large family -millions of kids. They are the progeny of Mr. and Mrs. Herd.

K

Laura

Is there any parent out there that has had a child experience a severe reaction to vaccines that asserts vaccines did not cause the "coincidental" illness?

My husband has a co-worker right now who knows nothing of the vaccine controversies. She's never even heard of any of the arguments for or against vaccines. Her son just turned one. He had the MMR, the varicella, the flu shot and one more (can't remember). Within a week, he was diagnosed with BOTH the measles and chicken pox. The doctors told her when she first brought him back with a fever and head to toe rash that it was NORMAL and there was no problem. The diagnosis followed the baby's continued decline in health. Her doctors tell her they have no plan to report her son's reaction to VAERS because it's considered NORMAL and that this happens to a percentage of all kids.

I completely agree with the "it's normal" part. It's just a damn shame that they see "normal" and "acceptable" as the same thing.

And what, by the way, is with this argument where they use that "small, tiny percentage" as an excuse when a reaction, such as illness or neurological regression, happens to a child or use it as a reason not to investigate since "problem x" only happens in a "small, tiny percentage"???

Until they show me a parade of parents willing to say that they absolutely do not believe the vaccines their child received had anything to do with the coincidental and following severe illness of their child (and after the illness, the neurological regression), I want nothing to do with their arguments, studies or science. Also, until I hear them show some concern for the kids getting sick and then developing neurological concern with the same amount of passion they are using to deny that vaccines are causing autism, then again, I want nothing to do with them. They have no interest in the health of my child or the health of my family or my marriage as a result of my child becoming so ill. As such, I have no interest in them.

I am praying my husband's co-worker's son comes out of these illnesses unscathed. I'm really worried about him and his mom.

You can tell where ECBT's passion really lies by their reaction to the issues presented to them. Based on their responses to concerned families, I can tell you that their passion doesn't truly lie with the children.

kim

Mr. Greenway and I have had our chance to talk on the telephone. Long before the days of Amanda Peet I called one day after chancing across their website and thought maybe they'd want to hear my son's story. He was the most rude, upsetting people I have ever come across in this fight of ours. A civil conversation was not to be had by this man. Whatever he is driven by is an evil force. Vaccinating all children with all vaccines available ASAP at all costs is his mission. If you get in his way, his head might just spin. I could hear the spit coming out of his mouth as he spoke to me.

John Stone

Indeed, there are probably still quite a few people who can recall that 1983 was not an era of high infant mortality.

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