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Epidemic Threatens Britain -- Measles, Not Autism

50_foot_womanBy Anne Dachel

Anyone who's done a Google news search on vaccines/autism over the last couple of weeks can't help but notice the stories about the huge push by British health officials for the MMR vaccine.  Dozens of reports are all saying the same thing: Vaccination rates have fallen off so much in Britain that the public is being warned of an approaching measles epidemic.  The only way to prevent this from happening is to have a major uptake in MMR vaccinations. 

The tone of the articles makes it clear to the British people that measles is life-threatening and the possibility of a massive outbreak is very real.  The statistics are scary.  The Guardian reported, "The number of cases of measles is on the rise across the country. There were 1,726 confirmed cases in England and Wales in 2006 and 2007 - more than in the previous 10 years put together, when there were 1,621 cases."

The press is giving parents plenty of reasons to be worried.  Sources repeatedly said, "Estimates by the Department of Health suggest a measles epidemic in Britain could affect between 30,000 and 100,000 children and young people."  Another paper reported, "The DoH says that around 10% of measles cases require hospital admission and one in 5,000 are fatal."

The Worcester News ran the piece, Anti-MMR parents put others at risk, in which we heard only the government's contention that "there is no scientific evidence to justify claims of a risk of autism. No link has been found and such studies have been debunked."   A local health official complained, "Parents who do not get their children immunised risk the health of their own children and other children."

One thing is clear: this is the fault of parents not vaccinating.  The Mail ran a story about anti-MMR mothers who are putting everyone in danger (HERE).  Jonathan Myerson wrote, "The arrogance is stunning, the stupidity is off the scale. But give the mother of a newborn something to fight against and logic is history."  This was in reference to the research by Dr. Andrew Wakefield linking the MMR and autism.  Myerson completely dismissed Wakefield's findings and blamed the press in Britain for falsely convincing trusting mothers that there was danger in the MMR. 

In the current stories about the need for the MMR, reporters generally spoke in the past tense when it came to the link to autism.  Most gave only one or two sentences-- "The measles return and current fears for an epidemic are the result of reduced MMR uptake following the claims the vaccine is linked to autism. But numerous studies have failed to find such a link and we are completely confident that MMR is safe."

The public also heard a lot from chief medical officer Sir Liam Donaldson who has taken the lead in sounding an alarm over all the unvaccinated kids at risk for measles urging doctors to "help cut the risk of a measles epidemic" by immunizing.

Personally, as an American, I see the autism-vaccine controversy in a different light and I have a number of questions for the British press.

Why is the media creating this hysteria over a possible measles epidemic when it isn't happening now?

The chart on England mortality rate from measles 1838-1978 (HERE) clearly shows that measles deaths were dramatically disappearing years before the introduction of the measles vaccine in 1968.  One has to wonder just how much of an impact the vaccine actually had.

In the countless stories in the UK about measles, why don't we hear anything from the non-vaccinating parents as to why they're not complying?  Why doesn't the press there report this in a fair and balanced manner?  Blaming parents but not investigating their opinion is tantamount to publishing government propaganda. 

Another obvious question comes to mind: Since there is such concern over the MMR causing autism and bowel disease, why not provided a single vaccine just for the measles?  It would seem a simple way to alleviate the concern over the combined live virus vaccine.  Health officials however remain firm that this is a "drive for the MMR jab." 

The Guardian had an editorial Aug. 12 blaming this health crisis on Wakefield's original work on the MMR back in 1998.  Journalist Peter Wilby wrote, "The research that led to suggestions of an MMR link with autism came from Dr Andrew Wakefield and 11 colleagues at St George's Hospital, London. It was later discredited. He and two others are now charged with serious professional misconduct before the General Medical Council."

Gone are the days in Britain when Dr Peter Fletcher, former Chief Scientific Officer at the Department of Health, was in the Daily Mail Former science chief: 'MMR fears coming true' | Mail Online (HERE) saying that 'the refusal by governments to evaluate the [MMR] risks properly will make this one of the greatest scandals in medical history.'  According to Fletcher's interview in 2006, science hasn't settled the question of vaccines and autism.  Fletcher was quoted saying,  'Steady accumulation of evidence' from scientists around the world was showing that the MMR vaccine was causing brain damage in certain children.  He furthermore made it clear why so many were in denial.  'There are very powerful people in positions of great authority in Britain and elsewhere who have staked their reputations and careers on the safety of MMR and they are willing to do almost anything to protect themselves.'

British coverage has reduced this to a debate only over the findings of Wakefield originally published in 1998 in the Lancet and they continue to talk about the claim that vaccines cause autism in the past tense as if there was no longer any debate.  It's hard to believe that we're on the same planet when we see stories everyday in the American press about the very heated and ongoing autism controversy.  We in the U.S. autism community may be outraged at the coverage at times, but it's there--on local and national news. 
You'd think that the publicity over the Poling case or the comments by Dr. Bernadine Healy on CBS News would have caused at least a ripple in the British media, but they didn't.  They were never covered in Britain.

Here in America, we've expanded beyond just the single thimerosal issue and we are looking at the whole vaccine schedule with cries of "too many, too soon."  There's cause for concern here over the host of toxins commonly found in children's vaccines.  These worries are never raised by the media in the UK.

This brings me back to Liam Donaldson.  Donaldson has gotten a lot of media attention over the impending measles outbreak and I wondered what someone in his position was doing about the real epidemic of autism in Britain.  I tried to research how he's combating autism and incredibly the overwhelming information available about Donaldson and autism consists of only of stories about Donaldson denying that the MMR causes autism.  Donaldson seems to be putting all his efforts into this and accusing Andrew Wakefield of peddling 'poor science.'

It needs to be noted that the hysteria over measles in Britain is happening at the same time that Wakefield's up on charges before the General Medical Council.  What an amazing coincidence for health officials.  MMR rates have dropped off dramatically because of Wakefield's findings and tens of thousands of children in the UK might contract measles as a result.  Could this be sending a strong message to the GMC to influence their decision?  Children's very lives might depend on it.

Measles is the crisis of the moment in Brtiain, not autism, but last year it was announced that the official British autism rate was one in every 86 children.  That stunning statistic wasn't cause for national alarm and serious inquiry into what was affecting children's health.  While one in 86 was more than twice the number previously thought, Liam Donaldson didn't seem worried.  The press too had a casual attitude about the new rate and one headline simply stated, Autism--quite common.  The BBC told us, "Part of the reason for the increase is likely to be improved diagnosis and greater awareness in schools of the problem."

Health authorities in Britain should have been in a panic over the fact that while one in every 86 children has autism, one in every 86 adults doesn't.  This is a looming disaster for both the US and the UK  The generation of disabled children represents a cost to taxpayers that we can't begin to imagine.  Officials in both countries are in denial, but at least in the US, the public is hearing about the controversy over vaccines.  The British people can see that damage that been done.  Children with autism are on endless waiting lists and are making huge demands on the schools.  It's only a matter of time before the ridiculous claims simply won't work.  The children with autism and the upcoming class of young adults with autism in the UK and here will present a bill we simply can't afford to pay, but in Britain, it may not even make the papers.

I am sure of one thing.  In both countries, health officials and members of the media who failed to do their jobs, who covered up the truth and turned their backs on our children won't be able to just walk away in denial.  They will be held responsible.  The evidence is everywhere, too obvious to ignore.  I can't imagine that either group will have a shred of credibility left in the end.

Anne Dachel is Media Editor for Age of Autism.



The picture illustrating this article brings back memories of seeing this movie (Attack of the 50 Foot Woman) on TV as a young kid -- it gave me a nightmare!

Jack Hep

Sounds similar to the last impending epidemic of 1994, invented mathematically by a government that later failed to inform its rapid consenting public that less than 200 cases of measles had been prevented at the cost of 8 millions vaccinated with thousands of adverse reactions, hopsitalisations and chronic debilitation that are logged in the archives. That 'epidemic' turned out to be suspiciously coincident with the end of shelf life of vaccines pulled due to links with the meninigitis epidemic of 1992 that had been flagged to the JCVI government advisors years before it was pulled - could they care less about our kids? The answer is probably, after all have not Ukraine and Argentina recently puled MMR due to a large number of suspicious deaths after the vaccine was distributed - I do not remember any warning to parents, from our department of health about the deaths and suspension of MMR in those countries pending investigations, as part of the requirement for parents and children to be fully informed prior to expecting their consenting to what may be suspect MMR...


Dear Ds Advocate - is the "D" your an advocate for Brian Deer by any chance?


Took a moment to follow the link to epiwonk's blog. It's actually very interesting, especially this bit from his comments:

Aug 9th, 2008 at 2:15 pm

Hi, Epiwonk!
Really enjoying your blog over here.

Just a couple of other caveats to add.

1)There’s also this fairly recent finding (which, of course, needs to be replicated before being taken too seriously)

“There was a positive association between pertussis infection and atopic disorders in the pertussis vaccinated group
only. From the present study, it cannot be concluded whether this association is causal or due to reverse causation.”

Which might go along with this:

The global expression of immune response genes in infants after vaccination and their role in asthma and allergy is
not clearly understood. Pharmacogenomics is ideally suited to study the involved cellular responses, since the
expression of thousands of genes can be assessed simultaneously. Here, array technology was used to assess the
expression kinetics of immune response genes with association to asthma and allergy in peripheral blood mononuclear
cells (PBMC) of five healthy infants after vaccination with Infanrix-Polio Hib. At 12 h after in vitro
re-stimulation of the PBMC with pertussis toxin (PT) antigen, 14 immune response pathways, 33 allergy-related and
66 asthma-related genes were found activated. ”

2) aluminum adjuvants stimulate an IgE-heavy immune response, so you really need to look at asthma and allergy in
a cohort who recieved all 4 aluminum adjuvanted vaccines and compare that to those who recieved none.

Go down to page 114 here to read a bit about aluminum and the potential Th2/IgE “bias” created by that adjuvant:
(WARNING: BIG PDF transcript of HHS workshop on aluminum in vaccines.)

And epiwonk's response:
"I hesitate to comment on your other observations, since I’d prefer to stick to epidemiology, which is my area of expertise."

See? Epiwonk is a valuable member of this community! S/he just happens to be interested in meta-analysis rather than helping our kids or kids born in the future.

As an aside, that HHS conference on aluminum in vaccines happened in May 2000. That was an election year, 8 years ago, right? And who's been in office since then? And what have they done about this, exactly, in those 8 years?

Apologies to the moderators for length and breaking margins. I can get supplements into toddlers but I don't know how to squish URLs.


But Suissa was wrong.

John Stone


The only thing which is clear from this is that the Staten Serum Institut, Denmark and the New England Journal of Medicine don't wish to discuss it, or any criticims of their study.


D's Advocate, you have several comments on this post alone. Do you need me to show you the others you've posted here over the weeks and months? Stop whining. We don't have to approve every comment from every commenter - nor do we. We have several people who moderate - and our tolerance levels vary. If you dislike Age of Autism and/or our practices, don't read us. Spend your time with your fellow doctors and pharma/biotech professionals at the scienceblogs. Capisca? Kim


Does this mean you are going to stop referencing Suissa's letter in future discussions about Madsen now that you know his logic and conclusions were wrong?

John Stone

Of course, Epiwonk will not even put his real name to his criticisms. On the other hand we do find that the data separately obtained by Stott et al, and Goldman and Yazbak showed an increase in autism in the vaccinated group - as suggested in Cochrane's reading. Colmcq seems disinclined to dispute Cochrane. Meanwhile we are expected to swallow - presumably without comment - the ad hominem 'Why crank journals are unreliable' from Anthony Cox of UK medicines licensing authority yellow cards scheme(MHRA).

You wonder on what basis you would get a 9% protective effect against autism with MMR unless there was an improper adjustment? And I remain puzzled, if Suissa, was simply wrong why NEJM did not allow debate. What is happening is that any discussion is being institutionally pushed to the margins - and then conducted on their side by shadowy surrogates like Epiwonk (apparently a retired CDC scientist).


"Suissa is saying essentially the same thing as Cochrane, only Cochrane fails to mention in what way the errors would effect the result. Is Cochrane wrong too?"

That was not my point, and as well you know it! Suissa is wrong - yet you keep quoting his erroneous letter. If you think epiwonks comments were unfair or flawed, please post your rejoinder.

John Stone

Returning to Colmcq's brittle claim - if Madsen et al and NEJM had been able to deal with Samy Suissa's criticisms it would have been greatly to their advantage to have the letter published. The obvious inference is that they could not.

shaun  turpin

I used to live in the UK and unlike most parents on this forum my son was not vaccinated, but hair and blood test showed a very high elevated amount of Heavy Metals primarily Mercury and Aluminum !!! I could not understand how they got there and through my googling research I can now point the finger at Epidural ( mercury ) via his mother and Vitamin K ( aluminum ) which we where blackmailed into by the bad parents scare tactic if we didn't.

The press are one thing in the UK but the National Health Service who having injected there poisons and diagnosed my son just a few years later basically suggested we locked him up and throw away the key.

Well a big Thank you America and to the internet my son his now recovering very well ,we now live in Brazil where the rates of Autism are nothing like there are in the UK and the USA !!! most incidence are in the bigger industrial cites like Sao Paulo and even so the rates quoted are 1/2500 . I don't know to much about there vaccination program hopefully someone might one day soon be able to find out more .
Again Thank You
Shaun and Austin aged 7 and 11 months

Ds Advocate

Awwww. This is a sad commentary. You will no longer post my questions or responses. How sad. It speaks volumes about this website and your cause.

Funny, those scienceblog websites post all commentary and opinions, including several posters that post here regularly. What does that say of those sites ethics and their position, I wonder?

I guess if you can't be right, do your darnedest to fool people into believing you.

So sad.

Well, atleast you, the editor was able to read this and can think about your attitudes toward public discourse and morality in the media, and perhaps you'll think abit about who you really are and where you stand on this issue.

Really, really sad.

Craig Willoughby

Does anyone happen to know if there is any information on how many deaths there have been from the MMR vaccine within the past 10 years here in the US? Just a curiousity


To those who would not like to agree with the parents of the autistic kids, I would say:
I have watched the vaccine autism discussion in the US since 1998 and in India since about 2003. ( One more coincidence for the health authorities- The cases of autism increased in India after mmore doses of Hib and Hep B and Flu vaccine with mercury were added to the Indian schedule) One conclusion after all these years: Listen to the Parents of the Autistic Kids- They'll get it right. The doctors and public health people will not.It happens every time without fail. The parents say autism is increasing- The public health docs say no it is not. Research proves parents right. Parents say that the mercury in vaccines is too much. Public health docs say nonsense, until a senior immunologist admits the truth. It is far too much. Parents say that autism is not fully genetic. Once again they are right. Its amazing- all those dumb parents who now dont want to vaccinate their kids according to the schedule. They were right every time. Maybe they will be right in the future too! My money?- Its on the parents.


WHOA! "I don't see a problem in the government intervening to save people (and their children) from parental stupidity."

At the risk of feeding the trolls, frankly, I don't see the problem in the people (parents) intervening to save their children from governmental stupidity.

Turning this argument into a "blame the parents" game is an old standby of Pharma shills everywhere. Equating parents not injecting potential toxins into their babies at the moment of birth with parents beating their children over the heads is a specious argument.

Parents here did the vaccines; that's how they got here. Parents speaking out about how their children were injured by vaccines happens to be protected by the 1st Amendment. Parents who are deciding whether or not to vaccinate look around at their friends and neighbors and see the truth in growing and undeniable numbers -- the current vaccine schedule can be dangerous. If Pharma, FDA and CDC spent half the time making vaccines safer that they do defending the unacceptable but profitable status quo, they'd get a lot farther in the long run.

Last I checked, we don't (mostly, lack of Congressional oversight notwithstanding)live in a Pharma-fascistic police state.

John Stone


Suissa is saying essentially the same thing as Cochrane, only Cochrane fails to mention in what way the errors would effect the result. Is Cochrane wrong too?

Carolyn M.

Tracey-- we are not crazy. Vaccines are not 100% safe for everyone, nor has it been anywhere close to having been proven that they do not cause autism (or have you forgotten Hannah Poling?). There are people who should not be vaccinated according to the recommended schedule if at all - those who are allergic to one or more ingredients of the vaccine, those who have had a vaccine reaction (or who have a family history of vaccine reaction) and those who have a family history of auto-immune disease are examples.

I know myself that vaccines can cause harm. My brother caught a very bad case of the measles from the vaccine - not the MMR, the prior version of the vaccine. This was confirmed by his doctor. My mother was told by her doctor that she should not take the flu vaccine anymore; every time she took it she caught the flu, which then progressed to bronchitis and at least twice to pneumonia. My daughter has autism, which we believe was caused by her vaccinations and my 4 dental amalgams.

By the way, I had mumps twice, and I had no real difficulty in getting pregnant. So much for your categorical statement that mumps cuases sterility.

Also, your post strongly implied that you would like to have us all forcibly vaccinated. That is more in keeping with something a totalitarian state would do. I hope that you do not truly mean that.

Carolyn M.

Craig Willoughby

"It's time to take off the tin foil hats, folks. When science repeatedly proves that vaccines don't cause autism, and some people disagree, I don't see a problem in the government intervening to save people (and their children) from parental stupidity."

Really? Then why do so many scientists disagree. Why is it that Dr. Healy, Dr. Poling, Dr. Gordon and the host of other doctors who have stepped away from mainstream medicine and become DAN doctors are all saying that the science is wrong? Could it be because the science is wrong?

Why is it that Hannah Poling developed autism after a vaccination? And how can you even remotely justify listening to organizations that knowingly and willingly poison people for profit and then try to cover it up (I'm not talking about vaccines here, I'm talking about Drug companies and Vioxx, Paxil, and too many others to even name in one post). Too bad there's no vaccine for gullibility, Tracey.

Hey, I think I hear the rest of the sheeple calling you, Tracey. Hurry up and follow the rest of the herd. It's hard to really see what's going on when someone's but is in your face, Tracey.

Craig Willoughby

What sickens me about all of this is all of the air-time that this is getting. All over the news stations, they talk about how this is growing into the next major epidemic, that we're going to have bodies lining the streets from all of these measles deaths. 140 something cases out of 300 million Americans. MY GOD, WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!

But, they don't mention the fact that a growing number of children are having adverse reaction to the vaccines (insert Church of Immaculate Vaccination mantra here ("But vaccines SAVE LIVES!")). They don't mention that the reason why all of these parents are choosing not to vaccinate is because of the loss of trust with the medical community. Pharma is guilty guilty GUILTY of knowingly lying about the safety of their products, and they've been caught red handed more than once. And nothing is being done about it. So how is that the fault of the parents?

Oh, about the media play on all major networks. Yes, I smell a coordinated attack. Let's scare all those crazy ant-vaxxers. Either that, or we'll make the public stone them in the streets. Muah hah hah


"Why not provide a single vaccination for measles"?

Because rubella is incredibly dangerous for pregnant women...perhaps you don't remember how many children were born with violent birth defects because their mothers contracted rubella during pregnancy.

And mumps causes sterility.

It's time to take off the tin foil hats, folks. When science repeatedly proves that vaccines don't cause autism, and some people disagree, I don't see a problem in the government intervening to save people (and their children) from parental stupidity.

If some fringe nut decided that beating infants over the head prevented autism, despite massive evidence to the contrary, would the government have to step aside for the "right" of people to beat their infants over their heads?


"With regard to the very large Madsen study it should be pointed out that Cochrane obscured the fact that "the younger cohort members" were the vaccinated group for which there would have been an underestimate of autistic members. Prof Samy Suissa, an epidemiologist from McGill University, estimated from Madsen's data that vaccinated subject were 45% more likely to have autism as against controls, as opposed to 9% less, proposed by Madsen. NEJM refused to publish his letter, which he later made available to Andrew Wakefield:"

And his letter has never been published bar crank journals like JPANDS. The reason is simple: Suissa's letter is wrong.

John Stone

Just to add to Teresa Cedillo's tragic note, it does actually seem as if most of the studies have been designed or carried out in order to avoid detecting anything.

To get funding or publication for something which actually targetted the issues is the problem. It is frustrating to see this continuing pretence, in which the shortcomings of the existing studies are never adressed either by the authors or the officials (pesuming these are different people).

I am afraid that 'D's advocate' is all too aptly named. He is an apologist for dangerous and unaccountable medicine.

Theresa Cedillo

Thank you once again Anne! I'd like to address a few things brought up by Ds Advocate. Also on PubMed are the journal articles written by Dr. Andrew Wakefield. If you study these articles closely, you will see that he makes a case for an association between MMR, autism and GI disease. I didn't count, but I don't think it's to the 100's point yet - re the studies you are speaking of. The studies refuting a link were not performed in a manner that replicates Wakefield, et al original work. Wakefield examined and studied the actual child and his/her medical history. This has not been replicated and published. So, no you can't say that the link has been disproven. It has not.

The studies we would like to see done and designed are studies that include the actual examination of the child affected with autism, GI disease, who regressed following the MMR, to include GI biopsies tested for measles virus using at the very minimun RCT-PCR.

Regarding several other issues - one death by measles vs. death by autism, I would like to add something. Michelle nearly died twice from her MMR/thimerosal injuries. Once in 2003, and again in 2005. The first time because the GI disease associated with her form of autism caused by her body's inability to rid itself of the measles virus, caused digesting to become to painful to tolerate. This led to anorexia, and eventually dehydration and eventually hospitalization when her body began to shut down as one's body does prior to death. Michelle lost her vision for one week. Had Arthur Krigsman (and God) not intervened, Michelle would not be here today. The doctors at the hospital told me they thought Michelle would not return home again. They said they didn't think she'd leave the hospital. So I think this is a direct comparison of a child dying from autism to a child dying from measles.

As far as parents who say they'd rather their child get the disease, I think clearly what we mean is that as a parent who has experienced autism along with the associated illnesses, you have far better chances of surviving measles, chickenpox, etc. and RECOVERING FULLY, than you do of suffering the effects of autism and all that goes along with it that is LIFE LONG.

Ds Advocate says: "At what point will parents a) be satisfied that vaccines are not the cause of autism and b) realize that the re-emergence of deadly/disabling infectious diseases of the past are not an acceptable alternative?

Personally, I will never be satisfied that vaccines are not the cause of autism, because I saw it happen right before my very eyes. I saw a perfectly healthy and normal child change in 7 days to a progressively sick child who has now been diagnosed with severe autism, Crohn's disease, Crohn's associated arthritis, uveitis, open angle glaucoma, intractable seizures, osteoporosis, Chronic Pain Sydrome and 90% optic nerve damage. I saw the lab report fiding measles RNA in her colon biopsy tissue. I see the horrific GI problems and many many associated medical disease accompanying it. I hear top doctors at top medical universitites tell me they've never seen such a medically complicated and sick child.

As far as "b)" goes - re-emergence of any "deadly" disease is always unwanted. That's why we vaccinated our children. If you know what "herd immunity" is then you should be thanking all of us with affected kids because our children were the sacrifice, the price paid, the "acceptable loss" (as some call it) to protect thousands of others. Our children were vaccinated and we are living with the consequences.

Theresa Cedillo
Michelle's Mom


Ds advocate says that individuals vaccinated against smallpox have titers sufficient to protect them from infection 30 to 40 years later. I'd like to see a citation from a journal, because I've never read that. On the flip side, we know that the varicella vaccine's immunity fades very quickly, and unlike Ds advocate, I have a citation (and the actual data):

"Children between the ages
of 8 and 12 years who had been vaccinated at least 5 years previously were significantly more likely to have moderate or severe disease than were those who had been vaccinated less than 5 years previously (risk ratio, 2.6; 95% confidence interval [CI], 1.2 to 5.8). The annual rate of breakthrough varicella significantly increased with the time since vaccination, from 1.6 cases per 1000 person-years (95% CI, 1.2 to 2.0) within 1 year after vaccination to 9.0 per 1000 person-years (95% CI, 6.9 to 11.7) at 5 years and 58.2 per 1000 person-years (95% CI, 36.0 to 94.0) at 9 years." from the New England Journal of Medicine (N Engl J Med 2007;356:1121-9.)

Since the CDC recommends booster shots for MMR, we can be pretty confident that the immunity conferred by the MMR wanes over time--unlike the immunity to the 1918 flu that the survivors have.


Thx. to all who posted info on the studies. To answer D's Advocate, unbiased studies, please. And studies that mimic real-world usages of the vaccines, i.e. concommitant doses of many different vaccines. It's not enough to say "we studied MMR and it's safe", even assuming an unbiased study found that was so. What's needed is "we studied all these vaccines in combination, and they are all safe when given together." --or "they aren't, and here's why, and here's how to make vaccinating safer." Like, even if one thought it was important to get vaccinated for Varicella, one shouldn't do it within a year of MMR. Like, "oops! ProQuad increases your risk of seizures when compared to the separate vaccines."

Look at the VAERS reports and many of the kids have received 5 or 6 or more vaxs at once. Nowhere has it been tested and proven safe to do so. I am deeply curious to know what happens when each vaccine, calibrated with its own level of aluminum adjuvant, is given with other vaccines that also have viruses and aluminum adjuvant. How do the viruses interact with each other, and how do the varying levels of adjuvant, when combined in the body after multiple vaccines rather than singly, affect the immune system of healthy children? How do these same factors affect the immune systems of babies and children that might be premature or otherwise immune compromised? How might the adjuvants exacerbate underlying, undiagnosed allergies to create unforeseen hyperimmune reactions? How might they accumulate rather than being purged from the body? What levels are safe? What are long term health outcomes in vaccinated vs. unvaccinated populations in the same area? What are the long term health outcomes in children who were given Hep B vax beginning at birth vs. those who started it later vs. those who never got vaccinated?

There are any number of studies that should be done, and should have been done before these vaccines were approved. Keeping the debate focused solely on MMR is missing the point.

John Stone

D's Advocate

Unfortunately underneath all the media spin and bureacratic pieties the Cochrane Review of MMR (2005) really gave the game away stating that safety studies, both pre and post marketing were "largely inadequate". None of the six autism studies reviewed was judged to be of low risk of bias. This is what it said about them:

“The study demonstrates the difficulties of drawing inferences in the absence of a non-exposed population or a clearly defined causal hypothesis”. (Re: Taylor 1999)

“The number and possible impact of biases in this study was so high that interpretation of the results is impossible”. (Re: Fombonne 2001)

“The retrospective person-time cohort study by Makela assessed the association between exposure toMMR and encephalitis (EN),aseptic meningitis (AM) and autism (AU) in a cohort of 535,544 Finnish children (95% of the surveillance cohort); the children were aged one to seven years at the time of vaccination.The authors compared the incidence of outcomes in the first threemonths aftervaccination with the incidence in the following months and years.They concluded that there was no evidence of association. The study was weakened by the loss of 14% of the original birth cohortand the effects of the rather long time frame of follow up. What the impact of either of these factors was in terms of confoundersis open to debate, however the long follow up for autism was dueto the lack of a properly constructed causal hypothesis …” (Re: Makela 2002)

“The interpretation of the study by Madsen was made difficult by the unequal length of follow up for younger cohort members as well as the use of the date of diagnosis rather than onset of symptoms of autism”. (Re: Madsen 2002)

“The conclusion, however, implied bias in the enrollment of cases which may not be representative of the rest of the autistic population of the city of Atlanta, USA where the study was set.” (Re DeStefano 2004)

“In the GPRD - based studies (Black 2003; Smeeth 2004) the precise nature of controlled unexposed to MMR and their generalisability was impossible to determine…The study (Smeeth 2004) appeared carefully conducted and well reported, however, GPRD-based MMR studies had no unexposed (to MMR)representative controls. In this study the approximately 4% to 13% seemed to be unexposed controls regarded by the authors as representative. Such a small number may indicate some bias in the selection of controls.” (Re: Smeeth 2004)

With regard to the very large Madsen study it should be pointed out that Cochrane obscured the fact that "the younger cohort members" were the vaccinated group for which there would have been an underestimate of autistic members. Prof Samy Suissa, an epidemiologist from McGill University, estimated from Madsen's data that vaccinated subject were 45% more likely to have autism as against controls, as opposed to 9% less, proposed by Madsen. NEJM refused to publish his letter, which he later made available to Andrew Wakefield:


Hi Ds,

At what point will parents a) be satisfied that vaccines are not the cause of autism and b) realize that the re-emergence of deadly/disabling infectious diseases of the past are not an acceptable alternative?

Well the answer to #1 is when a real study is done where a sufficient group of children are placed on a later, safer, and slower schedule and compared to the children on the current schedule for health outcomes. It would only take a few years to see the results and their are so many families already doing the alternative schedule that your group A already exist. If there is no difference in autism outcome then we can talk about causes. The answer to # 2 is the growing rate of Autism is not an acceptable alternative to preventing diseases of the past!

Kelli Ann Davis

"Okay, I am getting SO tired of seeing this same stupid discussion played out over and over again. It's always measles vs. autism. Other dreaded diseases vs. autism. Vaccination vs. dreaded diseases.

How about this for a choice? No vaccination, no autism, and no dreaded diseases."

How about *reality* for a choice? What you're suggesting is *not* happening and is a long shot at best.

The *stupid* discussion you are seeing played out over and over again is an attempt to explain to the *vaccinate at any cost* crowd the reason why they are seeing parents turn away in droves from vaccinating their children. The benefit/cost ratio has tipped in favor of *not vaccinating* and that is the point many of us are trying to make.

If you're SO sick of the debate and think your idea has merit I would strongly suggest you advocate for your idea on Capitol Hill if you haven't done so already.


With the UK government removing children from the home for obesity or for parental "Munchausen syndrome" (unclear why the latter is happening: some parents of autistic children are being accused of it, just as in the US), it looks like the US and the UK are in a neck-and-neck race over who can become the bigger medical/pharma fascists. And with the measles harem' scarem', it seems like interested parties in both countries would dearly love an excuse for a crackdown on those noncompliant with the vax schedule.

Angela Warner


Terrific as usual! It is an honor to knw you and I am so incredibly grateful for all the work that you do for all of our children!

D's Advocate... You have been hanging around AoA long enough to know exactly what kind of studies need to be done and exactly what we're talking about. If you really are not getting it, then I think you should go to the archives and do some reading. The studies that have been done are full of conflicts of interest... with that I digress. Do your homework and you'll come up with the answers you seek.


Okay, I am getting SO tired of seeing this same stupid discussion played out over and over again. It's always measles vs. autism. Other dreaded diseases vs. autism. Vaccination vs. dreaded diseases.

How about this for a choice? No vaccination, no autism, and no dreaded diseases.

But wait. How can this be possible? Isn't it always a lose-lose choice between vaccinating and preventing disease and not vaccinating and causing disease to spread?

No, there is always more than one solution to a problem. Anybody who tries to tell you different is selling something.

Measles does not materialize from thin air. It is not transmitted via birds, chickens or mosquitoes. It is spread from human to human. Where does it come from? For quite some time (maybe 20 years now), it has been coming primarily from two places: Asia and Africa. Not all of Asia and all of Africa, mind you, but specifically from countries in Asia and Africa where it is still prevalent. And the reason it is prevalent in those countries is not because of a lack of vaccination, but because there is poor sanitation and many malnourished children in those countries with few natural defenses, and they spread the measles like wildfire.

Now, how does measles get from Asia and Africa to Europe and the U.S.? It is spread in only one way: through travelers, primarily by people who go to a country where measles is still prevalent and bring it back with them. So how can this be stopped without requiring that every human being west of the Nile be pumped full of chemicals? The answer is outrageously simple. Just develop an infectious disease screening program for travelers who come from countries where measles (and other infectious diseases) are still prevalent. Yes, it would be inconvenient for those travelers, but it would be far more efficient and cost-effective than having to vaccinate every living person on the planet, year in and year out.

In fact, if you think about it, it's hard to believe there is not such a screening program in place already. After all, measles is not the only thing spread by travelers. So is TB, which has no vaccine.

If we took this idea a step further, and the West actually sent health workers to Africa and Asia not to try to vaccinate every newborn baby, year after year, but rather to quarantine and provide nursing services to communities where there is an outbreak, we could eradicate not just measles but many other infectious diseases in fewer than 10 years.

Revolutionary? Yes. Cost-effective? Yes. Safe? Yes. Profitable for the pharmaceutical industry? No. Therein lies the problem.

Ds Advocate

"If they're so very worried about MMR uptake, maybe, just MAYBE, they should actually do the unbiased, rigorous studies that will prove it is safe. The fact that they haven't already done so makes it apparent that they are too afraid of what they will find."

Go to Google Scholar (not regular google) or PubMed...enter the search criteria MMR and autism or MMR and safety...MMR and whatever you like.

Seems to me 100s of studies have been performed, not to mention that >90% of people living in the western world have been regularly vaccinated for a half century now. What additional studies would you like and how would you set them up, just out of curiosity?

Joan Campbell

Excellent article by Anne. The medical establishment and the government over here in the UK are turning a blind eye on this whole subject of Autism and trying to brush us parents and people who know about vaccine damage under the carpet. They wish we never spoke out about our children being vaccine damaged. How wrong they and the media are because we will never stop till the whole of the pharmaceutical companies admit that they have damaged our children and our good soldiers.



you may like to look at david Kirbys take on the UK media and government.


If they're so very worried about MMR uptake, maybe, just MAYBE, they should actually do the unbiased, rigorous studies that will prove it is safe. The fact that they haven't already done so makes it apparent that they are too afraid of what they will find. Paging Bernadine Healey...

Interesting, though, that they are so focused on presenting MMR as necessary and safe and not causing autism, when the argument on this side of the pond has evolved so much farther in the last year or so. Makes it seem very deliberately timed with the Wakefield case, and also demonstrates how badly they are missing the point.

Ds Advocate

"Ds advocate, the thing you should notice about the 1918 flu survivors and their antibodies is that the antibodies developed naturally in response to those individuals *actually contracting the flu*--not in response to a vaccine."

This is true and a good point. But the analysis of smallpox-vaccinated adults showing titers sufficient for protection 30 to 40 years ago makes the point that some vaccines will confer immunity for decades. The point with the 1918 flu survivors is that immunity from an exposure to a disease can last...well, getting close to a century now.

"As for the hordes of measles cases that would be clogging the hospitals (oh, the horror!), why don't you ask your parents if that was the case when they were children, before the measles vaccine existed. Does anyone remember any news stories about how the hospitals were unable to handle all the measles cases? Hardly."

I completely disagree. Adding hundreds of thousands of patients to the current burden of existing care will have a tremendous impact on our medical infrastructure.

Kelli Ann Davis

"At what point will parents... b) realize that the re-emergence of deadly/disabling infectious diseases of the past are not an acceptable alternative?"

How about when the re-emergence of those deadly/disabling infectious diseases effect 1.) 1 out of 150 children and 2.) the *disability* is a life-long event vs a two week hospital stay.

When will *you* realize that having a case of the chickenpox or measles doesn't even come CLOSE to the struggles that my son will endure for THE REST OF HIS LIFE!!??

The *ONLY* individuals responsible for allowing us to get to the point where a parent must weigh *autism rates* to *infectious disease rates* (benefit/risk costs) are the government and public health officials who've turned a blind-eye towards the tens of thousands of parents who've been pressing for answers to legitimate vaccine safety questions for years.

Bottom Line: Until decent studies are done and vaccines are cleaned up and rigorously tested for safety, you can expect to see the same trend as you see now -- educated parents refusing to play Russian Roulette with their children's lives.


Ds advocate, the thing you should notice about the 1918 flu survivors and their antibodies is that the antibodies developed naturally in response to those individuals *actually contracting the flu*--not in response to a vaccine. Vaccine-conferred immunity wears off.
As for the hordes of measles cases that would be clogging the hospitals (oh, the horror!), why don't you ask your parents if that was the case when they were children, before the measles vaccine existed. Does anyone remember any news stories about how the hospitals were unable to handle all the measles cases? Hardly.


Did you know that the cdc has just recently admittted that the levels of murcury in vacc. have actually been found to be unhealthy levels? My youngest son has autism and in my openion there is no doubt that the vacc. were responsible. I agree that I would perfer my child to have had measles and gotten over it than to be autistic. Autism you don't get over....ever. As far as the death statistics go with measles about 20 and 100,000 dye. My son was very ill after the vacc. as an infant for nearly a year and a half, I had to quit my job and couldn't even go to the store with him because everytime I took him anywhere he would get very ill again till he was about 3. Then after his vacc at five years old it happened again. Our pediatrition couldn't figure out why he wasn't fighting infection and even thought that he might have has leukemia. Since then I have not had him vac. and there have been no more problems with his health he is now 10. It is true that they have been taking the chemicals out of the vacc, that may or may not have been a factor in the over 800% increase in autism (older figures from 4 years ago), so parents can actually go on the internet and get a list of all the companies and find out which ones have removed them and which have not so they can make a educated decision about their childs vacc. I have even printed out the doc. for other mothers that have asked my openion. I dont want anyone to not vacc. based on what I tell them. However, one day I think that we will have definitive proof that parents were not being irresponsible instead the opposite.
This is interesting. I went to get a thermometer from the store and found out that you cant buy the old mercury kind anymore because of the risk of accidental exposure. But health officials want us to inject our infants with it... hummmm. Maybe it is different mercury?

John Stone

With apologies, my post a 7.50 am should have read:

"When the Observer newspaper published an article in July last year questioning whether MMR could have contributed to the rise in autism the director of Science Media Centre intervened..."

Among the issues raised here, I suspect that one of the problems is that MMR is becoming less effective, even if the disease is not necessarily becoming more virulent. This is the only plausible explanation for why the HPA are ordering double vaccinations in affected areas:

About the UK measles deaths there anomalies. See my note in JABS Forum (July 2, 2008):-

'To return to something I mentioned in passing last week. The report of a death in the UK from measles is anomalous:

'"The first death from acute measles infection since 2006 has been reported. A 17 year old with underlying congenital immunodeficiency was admitted to hospital with respiratory distress and pneumonia on 20 April following contact with a case of measles. The patient deteriorated and was transferred to ITU a week later with respiratory failure, but subsequently died (five weeks later). Serum samples and nasopharyngeal aspirates taken at various times have confirmed that the patient had infection with a strain identical to the measles strain (MVs/Enfield.GBR/14.07 genotype D4) that has now been circulating in the UK for over a year." [1]

'The 17 year old does not seem to have had "clinical measles". They kept testing him to show viral serum reactions but they do not mention that he had measles (clinically).

'They cannot argue that he had an "overwhelming viremia" and died BEFORE he developed measles because the incubation period of measles is 2-3 weeks and he lived over 5 weeks. Pharyngeal aspirates confirm the presence of the virus but not that the patient has the disease. A positive serum test would only be significant if there was a 4-fold increase in titer [2], but if this was the case you might expect that the HPA would mention it, whereas they only record the presence of the virus.

'Also, data has come to light relating to unreported measles deaths [3]. The death this year was said to be the first since 2006 when the tragic death of a 13 year-old with lung disease as reported by the BBC as the first in 14 years [4]. The HPA table [3] however lists a death in 2007 and a further 18 deaths going back to 1993. If these were cases that supported the need for comprehensive vaccination it is surprising that the authorities have not been keen to draw them to public attention.

'Not for the first time we are drawn to the conclusion that government agencies only ever tell us what they want us to know.




[4] '

Ds Advocate

"So, as you can see, the vaccines aren't really all that effective, are they?"

Is it the vaccines or your the overall health of your children? What you have described is not the norm, is it?

"How many children with autism drowned least year? Deadly indeed."

Kim, drowning is not a direct result of autism. Furthermore it a) has devastated many families, including those with non-autistic children and b) is preventable.

"A parent should not have to choose the threat of disease versus the threat of autism"

But that's exactly what people are doing!!! Parents are choosing between these diseases (whose etiology is well known and outcomes well documented) and the possibility of autism, on the premise that vaccines are the cause. At what point will parents a) be satisfied that vaccines are not the cause of autism and b) realize that the re-emergence of deadly/disabling infectious diseases of the past are not an acceptable alternative?


The Yahoo story points out that 15 American children were hospitalized with Measles. None died. How many children with autism drowned least year? Deadly indeed. The story is different in the third world and even developling nations - where children die in droves from vaccine preventable diseases. But they also deserve to remain FREE OF AUTISM if there is a link. A parent should not have to choose the threat of disease versus the threat of autism.


Is the medical establishment in the US and UK working together or is just coincidence? This article was just realeased at about 1:00pm est.

Craig Willoughby

D's Advocate,
Both of my older children were vaccinated with MMR and DTaP. My oldest daughter has Aspergers Syndrome, but she is recovering nicely. My son is so severely affected by autism that he has problems speaking, is unable to care for himself, and is unable to feel things like Hot Water. My youngest daughter caught the Chicken Pox, Measles and Mumps. We vaccinated her on a slower schedule, and she is 100% normal. Now, again, how am I advocating anti-vaccination if I've vaccinated all of my kids? My point is that some of these diseases are no where near as catastrophic as the media and Pauly prOffit are making them out to be.

Incidentally, my youngest daugher caught Measles and Mumps from my oldest daughter after my oldest was vaccinated (like 3 days after she was vaccinated). My oldest daughter caught Measles from the shot and had a really bad case of it, i.e. she took longer to recover than my unvaccinated daughter who she gave the illness to. She then spread it to my vaccinated son, who proceeded to have a really bad case of it. So, as you can see, the vaccines aren't really all that effective, are they?

Ds Advocate

A similar report, but about the U.S.

Ds Advocate

Craig, it's not just about deaths, with bodies piling up. Children with autism are not dead either. Brain damage, as well as other disabilities, does occur in many cases as a result of the disease.

The issue is not just preventing disability and death, it's about preventing hospitalization. There is no way our "top-notch" medical establishment is going to effectively handle an epidemic so that the large influx of those who are infected and develop advanced disease will treated effectively. As for your opinion that you would rather your children have these diseases as opposed to being immunized, then let's just leave it at that. That answers my question.

K Paul Stoller, MD

THe drug Isoprinosine is available in the UK. By giving a combo of Acyclovir and Isoprinosine and washing it down with Vit A, makes measles a very treatable proposition.

No need to fear getting it with access to the antiviral drugs available in the UK.

This information should get out to folks in the UK

KP Stoller, MD
President, International Hyperbaric Medical Assoc
Medical Director, Hyperbaric Medical Center of New Mexico

Craig Willoughby

D's Advocate,
Sure, we have all of these bodies over here just piling up in the streets for such terrible and debilitating diseases like Chicken Pox! Oh the horror! Yes, in several cases, the disease is preferable to the illness. Measles can be deadly, but with the United States and it's supposedly top-notch medical community, we have the means to monitor and control adverse reactions to the measles virus. I would prefer my children get measles and mumps as opposed to the vaccine. They'll have complete immunity when they are older. With the MMR, however, they will not and will need boosters in their teen years. Of course, as you know, Chicken Pox and Mumps are extremely dangerous in teenagers and adults.

Ds Advocate

Is it really the opinion of those posting that it is better for the child to get the disease than prevent it with a vaccination?

As for "wanning immunity", I suggest that you take a look at the latest study that showed survivors of the 1918 flu pandemic dtill had antibodies for that flu strain, as well as those who were immunized against small pox back inthe 60's still have detectable titers.

"Why is the media creating this hysteria over a possible measles epidemic when it isn't happening now?"
Classic. Gee, maybe to prevent the epidemic and the subsequent effect before it happens.

L Land

Gee, what would cause "greater awareness" and maybe even "improved diagnosis", let's see skyrocketing incident rates.

Public helath officals are right there is a connection. They just have the cause and the effect reversed!


Sadly, PD, you may be right about the severity of future outbreaks. The other thing to note about measles is that natural immunity is passed on to infants through breast milk, whereas vaccine induced immunity is not. So, in the event of an outbreak there are likely to be more infants die than in the early 1900s when they had immunity through there mother, who had gotten measles and shockingly lived to tell the tale. Of course, that will be our fault (those of us who want safe vaccine that follow good and sensible public health policy) not the fault of the people that implimented a bad and unnecessary policy.

Measles isn't the only one. Will it be our fault when the coming Shingles crisis hits our college age kids? Why didn't we get the chicken pox booster, why are we getting the shingles vaccines? We're not to blame for that man-made epidemic that will hit in 10 years or so.

And that's not all. What about PCV-7? We effectively wiped out 7 strains that caused the most common pneumonias only the find that the strains they had apparently been outcompeting are worse. Pneumonia hospitalizations are dramatically up in Scotland for instance. A case of a vaccine working too well and effecting the microbial landscape in a way we didn't predict. So, is the potential pneumonia crisis the fault of those who will elect to pass on the already in development PCV-21 vaccine?

I guess creating a problem you have the only solution to is a pretty good business model.

Jackie Fletcher, JABS

Well said, Anne. An excellent report.

The UK health officials continue to press a policy of make 'em have it without addressing why parents are voting with their feet and walking away from the combination MMR vaccine.

Parents contact the JABS group every day eager to vaccinate their children but they make it clear that they do not want the MMR. Many report that they already have a child they believe has been badly affected and obviously do not want to repeat the situation with a younger child. Acquired autism, epilepsy and other serious neurological problems have been reported along with deafness, juvenile arthritis, juvenile diabetes, vision problems, paralysis syndromes and brain degenerative conditions like SSPE.

Until the health officials investigate the children suspected as vaccine damaged, I believe, the fall in uptake of MMR will continue. Many thousands of parents are paying privately to access a choice of the single component vaccines but British healthcare should not be two tiered - those that can pay and those that cannot.

It shouldn't be MMR or nothing to protect a manufacturer's patent.


I haven't heard any concerns about a mumps or a rubella outbreak. Does anyone know why the officials think odds of contracting these 2 illnesses are so much less than measles?

Kelli Ann Davis

"The protection provided by getting measles as a child is lifelong. The protection from vaccine frequently wanes. This means that there is a huge pool of people, adults, from whom the consequences of getting measles are much more serious that face the risk of getting measles."

Which just goes to show you, "You Shouldn't Fool With Mother Nature" (think margarine; think Harry; think mass experiment).

Craig Willoughby

No one disputes the possibility that an outbreak could happen in the UK. I think what Anne was trying to convey was the fact that the media, while calling those of us who are pro-safe vaccine fear-mongerers, turns around and says "If you don't vaccinate, you'll get the measles AND DIE!" They are over-blowing a possible (POSSIBLE) epidemic while with 1 in 86 autistic children, they say, "Meh, no big deal."

I too worry about the teenagers and adults who may have waining immunity. But, how is that the fault of pro-safe vacciners? These people got their shots as children, didn't they? So how is this our fault that their immunity is waning?

Anyway, peace, PD.


No one is poking fun at disease, Pd - photo notwithstanding - that's about the hype and "dangerous mothers." So you're saying medicine has created a MORE VULNERABLE POPULATION? I agree. And here's what I found about a boy who died from measles in the UK, which I think is likely representative of many of the deaths by vaccine preventable diseases: "underlying medical conditions."

"A 13-year-old boy has become the first person in the UK in 14 years to die from measles.

The victim was from a travelling family living in the north-west of England, the Health Protection Agency said.

A string of outbreaks mainly in England and Wales's travelling communities has led to 100 cases so far in 2006, compared with 76 in the whole of 2005.

The boy, who was suffering from an underlying lung condition, had not had the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine."

For this child, yes, the MMR might have made a difference. However, there's no way of knowing, since vaccinated people do still contract the disease on occasion. And clearly, his underlying medical conditions worked against his ability to fight the disease and respond to medical care that allows healthy children to contract and survive the measles.

Thanks for commenting.



Hi Everyone -

I'm going to play the devils advocate here, but I think we all might want to consider that a real epidemic of measles in todays Brittain might be much worse than what we saw in the past. One reason, strangely enough, is the success of mass vaccinations.

The protection provided by getting measles as a child is lifelong. The protection from vaccine frequently wanes. This means that there is a huge pool of people, adults, from whom the consequences of getting measles are much more serious that face the risk of getting measles. Likewise, mothers who caught measles provide immunity to their breastfed children for longer periods than their immunized peers; so another very group very vulnerable to the effects of measles has less protection than it did in the past.

This is quite different than what any generation of adults have faced since the rise of modern humans, or before.

This is not meant to exhonerate the vaccine schedule, testing, bad media, or anything else; but the danger of an epidemic could be quite real. We make light of this at the risk of our credibility.

- pD

John Stone

Thank you, Anne, for this superb report.

Fundamentally, the British media have been bullied into silence by industry lobby organisations such as Science Media Centre and Sense About Science:

This article from one of their websites explains something of their role:

Their funding can be seen here:

It is noteworthy that these organisations are essentially run by a former Marxist cell, the one time Revolutionary Communist Party, subsequently Living Marxism, then LM before being disbanded after a legal suit:

When the Observer newspaper published an article in July last year questioning the director of Science Media Centre intervened:

The ultimate result was that the editor of the Observer lost his job.

Virtually any story relating to autism and vaccine is going to be stopped in the UK (particularly south of the Scottish border) despite interested journalists because the editors are not prepared to argue the position.

Allison Edwards

Parental accounts in the media here in the UK are being turned away from by editors as the Department of Health are citing it as scare-mongering and causing the deaths of children by measles they are hellbent on pushing the MMR.

Of course this ludicrous stance consigns some children to a life of autism. By continuing to deny the link our Government have also gagged Wakefield with a long drawn out legal action and our tv stations no longer invite a balanced view in interviews - it's all one-sided propaganda. Meanwhile the gravest health scandal of our time is being played out before our eyes.

We should never believe anything until it's been officially denied.

Angus Files

Another great article .Funny thing is we live in the UK and i havent heard a worried mother yet ,,it might just be that the population arent listening to the hype anymore,and if they arent its thanks to the likes of Age Of Autism for telling the truth



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