DAVID KIRBY: HANNAH POLING REALLY DID CHANGE EVERYTHING
DR. MARTHA HERBERT JOINS AUTISM SPEAKS SAB

OLMSTED ON AUTISM: WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH KIDS TODAY?

Angry_kidBY DAN OLMSTED

This past week I was visiting relatives, and ended up meeting a family with two children. The boy was 13, and smart as a whip – fun to talk to, quick to lift a comment made earlier and insert it in a light-hearted way at just the right moment in the flow of the conversation (that's high-verbal-intelligence stuff). It's great to be around bright kids, especially when you sense them coming into their own.

I mentioned to my relative what a pleasure it was to talk to him, and she told me that he was also musically gifted – she had taught him piano for the past five years. But alas, there was a kicker – this boy had struggled with what she called severe ADD, to the point that sometimes he would show up for a lesson and simply repeat, "I can't concentrate! I just can't concentrate." And, strangely enough, he could also be terribly upset by noises that wouldn't bother the rest of us. None of this registered with her as part of a pattern – why would it? – but to me I felt like I had encountered yet another gifted but neurologically injured child who is on some sort of generation-defining spectrum, however you want to categorize it.

Of course, children with developmental problems so severe they cannot talk, cannot interact and will not likely be able to live independently are rightly the focus of our concern, but there is a special category of empathy that should be reserved for kids like the one I just met. Here is someone with the whole world before him and a chance to excel at a very high level. Why should he have to deal with such a big problem at such a young age? It's just not right and it ought to concern us all.

Just the week before, I came across a similar situation. A former colleague with whom I had not been in touch e-mailed me, and we caught up on our recent activities. His very intelligent son – eight or 9 now, I believe, but perhaps a bit older given the way time flies – had been diagnosed with Asperger's while we were still working together. I knew he was getting intensive therapy and every advantage his exceptionally capable parents could provide (he is an only child), and that he was improving. Now, his father told me, he had lost the diagnosis. That was great to hear.

But … alas. His son now had Tourette's, the tic disorder from hell that, at least in its best-known manifestation, causes compulsive outbursts that often are profane and inappropriate.

This child, I believe, is somewhere on the same generational-damage spectrum – something happened that caused Asperger's, and it also caused a tic disorder. Medicine is helping a lot, my friend said, and his son even ran in a race to raise money to study and hopefully cure the disorder.

That's great. But isn't it also just a bit heartbreaking? Why should a boy with a disorder that (I suspect) was triggered by the medical community have to raise money to help figure out what's causing it? We know – for a fact – that tics keep showing up in studies of thimerosal exposure. Even after the CDC massaged away the autism signal, they still couldn't get rid of tics.

As David Kirby has written, tics are no small thing – maybe they seem that way to our public health officials who are just relieved they could get rid of that nasty association with autism.

But ASD, ADD, ADHD, sensory integration disorder, tics – the neurological damage spectrum -- are messing up the best and the brightest of the new generation, and every time you turn around you find another example. If the autism rate is 1 in 150, and far worse among boys, and the problems I'm talking about in these two boys aren't even included in that number, what is the true rate of significant neurological damage in today's children? And what are the implications not just for them but for us as a society?

I don't even want to think about it.
--
Dan Olmsted is Editor of Age of Autism.

Comments

Dawn

This problem is bigger than anyone could ever imagine. We are a military family who moved around a lot. My son attended schools in NC, NH, and CA. He could not read more than a paragraph, add, subtract, multiply, divide, or comprehend simple word problems. I had him evaluated 5x for Special Ed Services - only to be told that his test scores were "normal". Normal?? What is truly scary is that they were comparing his scores to others his age at a national level. My son is 14!!! So, yes, it is truly scary when you think of what is going to happen to our next generation. Who will be doctors? Lawyers? Who will be our future President? I shudder just thinking about it.

KarenAtlanta

Dan thank you for writing about the kids below the radar. I have 3 and one with Autism.
All of the Neurotypical 3 at first glance appear normal, but their lives have been fraught with anxiety and learning disabilities.
All of which I did not know were Thimerosal related until their brother's vaccines were doubled and he plunged into the world of Autism. I just thought I had quirky kids.
One who wouldn't anything but cotton and one who hated loud sounds etc.
I finally wised up and checked everyone's Mercury levels after our pediatrician insisted there was no more Thimerosal in his shots.
One look at a requested insert proved otherwise - it was in there, full strength in 2002.
They all had it full strength in their HIP,DTaP and Hep B. hundreds of times over safe EPA levels.
After a year of IV chelating the kids, I saw their true personalities blossom and the quirks leave.
My oldest daughter said she felt like she came out of a fog. After a year of chelating and HBOT with her Autistic brother her Iowa scores skyrocketed above grade level.

The CDC admits that 1 in 4 have some form of neurological disorders.
Unfortunately many of these kids are being
tagged "quirkly" or Learning Disabled but in fact they are Thimerosal poisoned.

Becky

Re: tics and/or Tourette's and/or OCD that suddenly appear out of nowhere, definitely research PANDAS. Just Google "PANDAS Sue Swedo autism" and you'll find lots of info. We've been battling PANDAS on-and-off since '03. It has at times caused severe tics (vocal, gestural, sometimes full-body) and severe OCD in my son. We treated w/IVIG (insurance covered it) w/excellent results. Problem is that sometimes when he gets exposed to strep, it comes back.

nhokkanen

Mercury amalgam tooth fillings are the bane of the less-vaccinated 20- to 60-year-old age groups. I'm so weary of reading about midlife adults coming down with neurological or immune system "mystery ailments" while doctors remain oblivious to the health hazards caused by mercury permanently installed near highly vascular mouth tissue. And I flinch after reading about free dental services offered to low-income inner-city residents; you just know they'll get the cheap mercury tooth fillings. Poison makes a lousy gift.

Joni

I am the mother of a 13 year old daughter who has attention and auditory processing issues and is also musically gifted. She has three older siblings who were born before the vaccine schedule that included HepB at birth and they have no learning issues. There are no adults in the extended family with learning disabilites, however she has a 13 year old male cousin who is non-verbal autism, an 11 year old male cousin Asperger's and an 8 year old male cousin "on the spectrum". At the IEP meeting for my daughter, her support teacher told me that 1 in 4 of the children in her grade are in learning support. She also has a friend in her homeroom with Tourette's.

Terri Lewis

pinkdove,

It isn't just this generation, but it is truly *worse* with this generation.

More kids are sick, and lots of them are sicker than we've *ever* seen.

It's been suggested elsewhere at AOA (can't find it right now) that some of today's parents were made a little sick by mercury/aluminum/vaccines, but their kids are considerably sicker, including (of course) full-blown autism.

If the genetic component is there, it's there.

But it's the environmental insult that makes the person sick.

So there are parents who have "shadow symptoms" in some cases, which were never diagnosed or even troublesome, maybe, but the kids are just as sick as can be.

Whereas the parents were just ADD, the kids have full-blown autism; whereas maybe one parent has seasonal allergies, the kids have life-threatening asthma. Or life-threatening food allergies. Or multiple mental and physical problems, no matter what it gets labeled.

And it's going to get worse before it gets better.

qchan63, you were addressing Dan, but if I may jump in: I don't necessarily see children (or adults) as "damaged" unless they are just struggling along in a way that makes me want to help them. . .not have to struggle so hard! :)

People draw different lines in different places, but when somebody is really sick (mentally, physically, or both) you just know it.

Terri L.

P.S. On my little street right now (one short street): two boys recovering from some pretty serious problems. One girl getting over vaccine-induced asthma.

At my kids' birthday party (10 kids): a little girl with a seizure disorder; two with asthma; one recovering from autism. Four out of ten.

In my son's first-grade classroom: a girl with diabetes. I *never* knew a child with diabetes when I was a kid. Not that they didn't exist, but it's more common now.

Holly

I saw a NOVA special about epigenetic damage. Future generations of all these vaccinated kids(injured and not apparently injured) are in serious trouble.

pinkdove

I'm 32 years old, female, and was diagnosed with ADD at 15. So I don't think it's just this generation.

scared momma

What really keeps me up at night is what will our children's CHILDREN be like? By then it WILL be a genetic epidemic. Will there be anyone 'normal'? Will there be any financial means to acommodate a society where 'special needs' will be the majority?

SAM

Definitely an appropriate article for me today. I just received all three of my kids' standardized test scores in the mail. The two vaccinated boys (mid 1990's, one ASD, one not) both did ok. Mainly "average", a few things above average a few things below average.

But, my unvacc'd girl was above average in everything. I just look at her test scores and think 'what should have been' with the boys (who are both very smart, I know y'all know what I mean).

I try not to think about it too much - and I'm not any kind of academic snob. But I always did above average, my brother did, my husband did, his three brothers did. We both come from really smart families (a lot smarter than me). But somehow, my two boys struggle and struggle. I wonder why...

when abnormal becomes normal

"I have to wonder: Are you capable of looking at ANY imperfect child -- as all children are imperfect, as all people are imperfect -- and not seeing "damage"?


It happens all too often that people accept today's reality as the reality that has always been. Kids just did not have these problem in years past.

Hate to say it, but this there is a difference between perfectionism and basic observation. Tourette's is a clinical problem. It's not like one has to be overcritical to notice something is wrong. Inability to concentrate is another clear problem. Reduced scores on standardized tests is another one, even though schools have managed to mask dropping SAT scores by making the test easier or just making it not comparable to older tests (written test). All it takes is careful comparison to historical data and it becomes obvious that kids these days have some real issues. But at least they don't have polio or the measles, right.

so true

An earlier comment was right on. So many could benefit from Biomed, but won't touch it unless they are hit on the head with the "A" word. Sensory issues, GI issues, speech issues, allergies, ear infections all get a pass as long at there is a little eye contact and some pretend play. Even people that believe in what we are doing with our kids woudln't dare with their kids but they all could be so much healthier.

I only really know maybe 6 parents with kids under 4 and every single one of the kids has been on a nebulizer for asthma. When I asthma I was always the only kid in the class carrying around an inhaler. I was very self-conscious about it, I always looked for other kids, so I know this isn't just selective memory. It just wasn't like this 30 years ago.

Sorsha

Yes, yes, YES! There are a slew of kids diagnosed in Kindegarten and up with the a's...my son was FINE until his kindegarten round of shots. Just a little better with eye-contact and socialization, he may not have been diagnosed with an ASD and ADHD - he would have just been labeled ADHD. The face of vaccine-induced neurological damage sustained at 5 may look a little different than damage sustained at 18 months - but that they are related is clear to anyone paying attention. Thank you for this post...I keep thinking of all the people whose kids have been diagnosed 'off' the spectrum who could benefit from biomedical treatments - but are instead put on Ritalin.

Steve

The epigenetic damage done to generation after generation continues to mount. Even if vaccines were outlawed tomorrow, who knows how long it would take to reverse this downward trend. I think many readers can relate to the ADD issue you speak of as they have a touch of this. There are lenthy of parents flirting with the edge of the spectrum if you will, but have lived completely typical lives despite a little extra challenge. And then a generation and more vaccine damage later, the offspring are not mildly ADD, they have full-blown autism and their siblings are struggling with ADHD, food allergies, sensory disorder, immune issues, in a addition to the challenge of having a sibling with special needs.

Very sad indeed

Petra

Yup, yup, yup, yup, yup, yup and yup in response to Dan's article and all the comments.

Both my sons' classes? 80% has got 'something' going on.

My neighborhood? At least half the kids, almost all the boys have 'something' going on.

The 'cousins' in the family? One 'diagnosed' (in addition to my Salamander), two other ones 'blatantly spectrum' (Aspie or HFA or SPD; parents in DENIAL). At least three other ones have 'something' going on. The adults? Thyroid, cancer, fibromyalgia, CFS, gastro issues, mood disorders, etc. etc. etc..

Of course -I- am the 'crazy one'.. if only I were to stop 'obsessing' over my boys, they'd be perfectly 'fine'. Yeah, just as 'fine' as the other kids and adults in the family?? Thanks, but no thanks. I'll keep 'obsessing'...

I don't know anymore WHAT it is going to take for people to 'wake up'..

reprogfx

I should have added this to my comment. Check this out Dan... maybe you can / would do a followup on this topic with the author of this book. Love to see what would come of a collaboration...

http://www.boysadrift.com/

reprogfx

GREAT ONE DAN! I've got this kid, he was born end of 02 and I remember signing waivers with the thirmarisol word on it so he got mercury until 6 mos when I stopped vaccinating - he's plenty damaged btw. He would never have made an official dx- and thus NOT included in the admitted 1/150. We are full out biomedical and now do HBOT - hard chamber to heal his brain damage. Everything mainstream was a complete waste of time and money. My son had the immune system of an AIDS patient and his (all Peds) Ped had/has no tools to address it. Sad, sad, sad, sad world we live in. I am 8 mos pregnant with another son - only scared of one thing - the ignorant "system".

qchan63

Dan,

The boy you describe sounds like quite a wonderful and exceptional kid who has some significant difficulties to deal with, as many children do. As many grown-ups do.

My neurotypical daughter has her difficulties; so does my autistic son. Are both "damaged," or only the one with autism?

I have to wonder: Are you capable of looking at ANY imperfect child -- as all children are imperfect, as all people are imperfect -- and not seeing "damage"?

Diane

Dan - please tell your friend to have their child tested for PANDAS - onset of TICs is a symptom of this. My ds (one of the identical twins from PA) - suddenly started developing TICs. Turns out his Strep titers were way high - a long course of antibiotics got them back in line and TICs disappeared!

Diane

Garbo

Having just wrapped up a year spent volunteering in my son's public school "regular" kindergarten classroom, I can only say that things are getting worse not better. My son was diagnosed age 3 variously with Autism, PDD-NOS, and Aspergers. After 3 years of biomed we started him at school under the radar with no IEP; he can't bear to sit next to kids who buy their lunch because of the smell of the cafeteria food, but otherwise it's been a fairly successful year. We've done all our treatments with him privately, so he doesn't show up in any statistics. There's nothing on his "permanent record".

Out of his class of 19, there are at least nine (not including my son!) who have obvious issues ranging from ADD, ADHD, OCD, severe eczema, severe allergies, motor coordination problems, eating disorder, learning disabilities, etc. The teacher had her hands full, and I really felt sorry for both her and the children. Most of the "bad behavior kid" parents are in denial as far as I can tell, and the "medical problem kid" parents have no earthly idea what the root cause of their child's problem might be. All but one of these kids is going on to first grade. They are "normal" enough to get by.

Doctors don't want to look at vaccines because they're the ones who gave them; insurance companies don't want to pay for expensive treatment; the school districts are the ones who wind up footing the bill for all these kids getting diagnosed and getting services like OT. But the small amount that kids get from the school is a drop in the bucket and isn't going to address the underlying problem. And so these problems will persist, and affect the education of all the "normal" kids in the classroom as more and more time must be spent dealing with behavior issues and lesson plans take twice as long to complete because of attention problems.

Teresa Conrick

Dan,

I see this so much, too. I am a special ed teacher but have been teaching high school "alternative" ed..which is a nice way to say special ed but without an IEP or 504 plan.

I would say 90% of the boys have asthma, 30% have allergies-food, pollen, other..and these are kids who are in Meg's peer group..circa 1991-1994..learning disabilities (undiagnosed/never tested) about 40%, adhd/add--about 50%, and emotional disturbance--85%.

Since I am inundated with sick kids, maybe that explains my never ending interest on this topic.


cyndi

I live in a community where of my neighbor's children, 10 out of 13 have some type of neurological impairment, whether it's sensory integration, autism, ADD, learning disabilities, or Asperger's.

This is an epidemic that is going to overtake America in the next 10 years. What will happen to the next generation of neurologically-impaired adults? They can't all be programmers or creative types. Who's going to lead the next generation??? I have real concerns about this.

Lawrence

While I know you're talking about the Vaccine Generation, please keep in mind that this is also the HHV-6 Generation and the HIV Fraud Generation.

Back when AIDS broke out in 1981, there were so many secondary infections to deal with in the affected patients that there was a very real fear that the wrong infection would be called the primary cause. Because of such a hypothetical mistake, the real cause might be allowed to spread in a stealth manner.

Guess what happened?

On April 23, 1984, HIV was politically declared the cause of AIDS. Even though it wasn't even found in all the original AIDS patients.

Scientists who pointed out the weaknesses in the HIV theory were marginalized and discredited. They were called denialists when they spoke truth to HIV power. No second opinion was ever allowed where AIDS causation was concerned.

The HIV establishment was so invincible that in 1986, when another more formidable virus, HHV-6, was found in AIDS patients, it was basically swept under the rug. An empire was being built around HIV.

Nobody was able to free the gay community from the HIV paradigm.

Nobody was able to free the black community from the HIV paradigm.

Through an unholy mix of greed, pride and groupthink, the insidious neuroimmunological virus, HHV-6, was allowed to go on its merry destructive way in AIDS patients.

But a price had to be paid. HHV-6 soon showed up in people with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, MS, cancer, and autism, just to name a handful of HHV-6 associated medical problems.

To borrow from Pastor Martin Niemoller, first they lied to the AIDS patients about HHV-6 and I did not speak out because I wasn't gay and didn't have AIDS. Then they lied to Chronic Fatigue Syndrome patients about HHV-6 and I didn't speak out because I didn't have CFS. Then they lied to MS patients about HHV-6 because I didn't have MS. Then they lied to people with autism and ADD about HHV-6 and I didn't speak out because nobody in my family was affected. When they come to lie to me about my HHV-6 health problems there will be no one left to speak out.

Matt Flynn

Good question, "what is the true rate of Autism in America?" My state of Wisconsin is one of 11 states used to come up with the 1 in 150 stat, using data from the School system. Could that be the reason why our school district refuses to accept my 7yr old non-verbal, clearly autistic son's (two) diagnoses? or my 12 yr old's aspergers diagonoses as well???

Josh Day

Dan,

CNN recently posted this story (which I never in my wildest dreams would have expected to see, say, six months ago) on their site:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/family/06/19/ep.vaccines/index.html

My 1.5 year old had his physical on Tuesday. We're lucky because our pediatrician is great. Caring and has a very warm presence; our son was very accepting of her when he's usually wary of most strangers. She knows where we stand on the vaccine schedule and immunization issue. It didn't come up once during the visit, though the nurse tried to make us sign another form stating we were medically neglecting our child. We refused as we had a modified form on record, with that medical neglect clause scratched out and initialed by both parties.

I was born in 1981. My brother and cousin (whose father is Egyptian/Syrian; we're Scoth/German -- talk about diverse genes!) were born in 1984. All three of us have asthma and food allergies varying on mild (my and my brother's allergies are now gone) to severe (my cousin can't eat peanuts or coconuts without experiencing allergic reactions that require ER trips). She also has severe eczema and has the worst case of asthma of the three of us.

Interestingly, we didn't have any of these issues at birth. They all came on acutely at roughly the same years of age for my brother and me. My cousin was hit the worst, at a slightly later age.

I was very similar to the 13-year old boy you highlighted at the beginning of your article. I could not read more than a few words until second grade, was "excused" from music class and gym class because of the noises and chaos, and was diagnosed with severe learning problems (ADD and all that I think were just beginning to hit the zeitgeist). I had severe food and environmental allergies and was placed on a restrictive diet (no corn products--corn sweetener or syrup, which is in everything--dextrose, soybean, etc). This diet was hell for me as my mom and teachers and mothers of friends all watched me like a hawk. There was absolutely no cheating... about the only thing I wasn't allergic to in a peanut butter sandwich was the peanut butter (assuming it had no corn syrup)!

Anyway, Dan, thank you for your article and your work on bringing these issues to light. Who knows how many young parents are out there with a story similar to mine.

wow

What’s Wrong With American Boys?

What would happen if you exposed a generation of American infants to Thimerosal (ethylmercury) via multiple infant vaccines from about 1988 to 2002? Not a minor exposure, but an exposure rate that exceeds the EPA’s recommended mercury exposure limit by about 30X for each mercury containing vaccination and in extreme cases up to 220X. It has been proven that the potency of Thimerosal is enhanced in the presence testosterone, while estrogen provides a protective effect. Could this explain the recent autism epidemic that affects 4 boys for every girl? Could it also explain the recent autism epidemic that the CDC states: afflicts “1 out of 166 children”? Might it also explain why, according to the CDC, that “1 out of 6 children” now have a developmental disability? Could it explain the following?

DISABILITY MALE FEMALE
Learning Disability 73.4% 26.6%
Emotional Disturbance 76.4% 23.6%
Speech Impairment 59.5% 40.5%
Mental Retardation 58% 42%
Autism 80% 20%

What about the millions of American kids who received full doses of these mercury-containing vaccines? They were all poisoned to some degree, the question is: to what degree? What type of subtle damage resulted from this huge iatrogenic exposure? Did an entire generation of American males lose 5-10 IQ points? The CDC states that 17% of American school-age children have a developmental disability. Is it possible that a large percentage of these disabilities were caused by our federally mandated, aggressive vaccination policy? I think so.

anonymous this time

I posted this comment previously to an article for which it was rather out of context, and it didn't garner any response, but I would like to post it again because it is relevant to this article I am interested in any feedback.

Sometimes parents of kids with autism are not aware of biomedical treatments, or believe people who tell them not to try those treatments, but at least biomedical treatments for autism are only a Google search away. For kids who have milder issues possibly related to over-vaccination and/or mercury, nobody may even have a clue that medical treatments such as diet, supplements, and detoxification could help.

Thanks so much for this article, Dan. These issues are so important!

Here is my prior post:

I have a friend whose neurotypical son is 17 years old and so received the many thimerosal-containing vaxes given to kids born in the early 1990's, as well as of course the MMR. As a child, he suffered from very bad constipation. They saw a child psych who said that he was trying to control his world by holding in his poop, or something like that. He is now a senior in high school and although he does very well on standardized tests he in danger of flunking his classes. He doesn't know what he wants to do next year and can't bring himself to look for a job or apply for college. He has been having trouble concentrating on his work in recent years and spends his time instant messaging when he should be doing homework. He is suffering from depression.

My friend views his issues as mainly psychological in nature, but I suggested that although depression can cause physical issues, the reverse can also be true, i.e. biochemistry can cause depression. And I suggested having him evaluated by an educational specialist to see whether there are other issues interfering with his ability to focus attention and learn, besides lack of motivation. And I have been sharing information about biomedical treatments, partly because my friend has some ongoing GI issues.

Another friend of mine has a son about the same age who has asthma and is very quiet, not nearly as sociable as my friend, although he does have a few close friends.
He tends to narrowly focus on particular areas of interest.

Neither of these boys is autistic. They are perfectly capable of speaking in complete sentences and functioning on a daily basis. The first is quite social and the second does very well in school. But I often wonder how many kids of this generation -- especially boys -- have been affected by vaccines in a milder way than our kids.

In my younger daughter's 4th grade class there are several seemingly neurotypical boys who have very bad behavior problems. My older daughter's teacher in an Advanced Placement (AP) class commented on how there are fewer boys than girls in AP classes these days. I remember the Newsweek article on how many boys are having trouble in school these days. Ofcourse throughout history there have been kids with behavioral or learning problems, but I wonder whether today some of these issues are vaccine-related.

I have two neurotypical nephews with asthma (hitherto unheard of in prior generations of our family) -- one of whom is incredibly good at drawing, used to frequently line up his toys and have meltdowns over transitions, and is on a steroidal medication now because he was getting sick so often with cold viruses etc. When I tried to explain to my brother and sister-in-law why a yearly flu shot containing thimerosal may be bad for him, they said that they would ask their pediatrician about it, and when I tried to explain why they may not get the full story from their pediatrician they just gave me a blank look. Although I always circulate information about vaccines, etc., I live far away, don't see them very often, and I don't know whether they pay attention to my emails.

At least most of us reading articles on AoA have access to information about DAN! biomedical treatments, vaccine safety issues, etc. But it's really sad that parents of kids who may be more mildly affected by vaccines are generally completely oblivious to issues such as detoxification, flu shots containing thimerosal, mercury in dental amalgams, dietary intevention...

I've gotten pretty far away from the poop topic, but it just reminds me of kids I know who have milder digestive issues and milder learning, emotional, social, and/or behavioral issues. One of the unfortunate results of the resistance among gov't agencies and medical organizations and specialists to learning about vaccine safety issues and prevention and treatment of adverse reactions, and of the relation between digestion, the immune system, and the brain, is that not only are so many autistic kids not getting the biomedical treatments which could possibly benefit them, but more mildly affected kids may have completely unrecognized problems which are not being addressed.

Kathy

Mine is one of the children you describe. It's shocking the medical community isn't alarmed ... toxins = neurological damage. What is so hard to understand? I mean they made it though medical school and can't figure this one out? Chelation works, period. Remove the crap and get your kids back. Run from those well baby visits until they clean up the vaccine program! Well baby visits = neurological damage period.

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