A listener provided a transcription. Here it is.

IMUS: Good morning Mr. Kirby. How are you?

DAVID: I'm good. It's been exactly 3 years ago when you and Diedre really started bringing this to the people's attention. Boy, talk about "Ground Hog Day". It just seems  like we're beating the same issues all over again, without getting anywhere.

IMUS. I thought it was kind of amusing to me, after Senator McCain said what he said in
Texas, which I'll ask you about in a second....to see my name in a couple of columns
blaming me for influencing him. When I've never said anything of the kind. I've got my
own suspicions, but, any way, what exactly did Sen. McCain say now?

DAVID: Sen. McCain said, after being asked a question Texas by a woman referring to the
big court case, which was just conceded, in which the government said that a girl's vaccine
injury led to and resulted in an ultimate diagnosis of autism. She asked him about it and
he, to just about everyone's surprise, said he believed there was strong evidence to
implicate the vaccine ingredient called thimerosal, in the rise in the numbers of cases. He
said the rise of cases is indisputable, meaning it's not just better diagnosis, we have more
autism in America today then we had 10 or 15 years ago. He's trying to figure out what is
going on. He recognizes there is a national emergency. It may not be the mercury in the
vaccines, it may not be the vaccines at all, but, until we get to the bottom of this it's
refreshing, to say the least, to hear a politician out their talking about what a lot of other
people are talking about. At some point, if you want to get into some of the studies that
are coming out, McCain, who's been blasted in the last 24 hours, taking more "incoming"
that I've received in 5 years in just 24 hours. He is referring to actual studies that have
been published by very top flight scientists, and, he has a very good medical and science
staff. He would not have made this statement flippantly, and, it didn't come out of

IMUS: The next question: There is scientific evidence out there suggesting that there is a
definitive link?

DAVID: There's lots of science evidence, when taken together might suggest a link. Or
might suggest a mechanism. My position has always been that this has not been proven
one way or the other. Yes, there is evidence to refute, there is more evidence everyday to
support this theory. People who oppose it, think this is over, and, I think it would serve
them well to take a minute or two, go back to Pubmed, look at the studies that did not
appear in the NY Times or on ABC news. We get filtered information in this country, and, I
frankly don't blame people for thinking that this is bunk, baloney, proven over and done
with. Anyone who brings it up is crazy....because they have not been given access to the
studies. The American people have not been given all the information they need. They
need to go out and find it. It's there, look at the brain studies that people from Harvard
and Johns Hopkins. They are presenting with oxidative stress, heavy metals and mercury
in the brain. Look at the study in Child Neurology that went back and looked at a previous
study...lo and behold...they found that children with autism do have higher levels of
mercury in their blood. A mistake was made in the original calculations and some
mitrochrondrial studies have just come out....continue to come out....which are very
germane to this court case. It all starts to fall into place, and it is hard science. It is peer
reviewed. People are willfully ignoring it, some of them, they know its out there and they
won't look at it. Most of the people online who are saying that John McCain is crazy, Don
Imus is crazy, David Kirby is crazy....have not bothered to read these studies. It's
frustrating because you want to have a scientific discussion but you are talking to people
who only have half the picture.

IMUS: Talking with David Kirby here on the Imus program, in an effort to get the audience
to kill themselves. The vaccine manufacturers claim they took thimerosal out of the
vaccines when? Not the flu vaccines but most vaccines.

DAVID: The media reports that all mercury came out of all shots in 2001. Nothing could
be further from the truth.

IMUS: What is the truth?

DAVID: Well, we don't know and the government won't tell us.

IMUS: Well, why don't the vaccine manufacturers tell us?

DAVID: They don't have to.

DAVID: They stopped making mercury containing vaccines right around the end of 2001.
Now, this stuff goes and gets shipped into warehouses. Then it gets into the pipeline,
that's when the expiration date is placed on it, the day it leaves the warehouse. They
stocked up on mercury containing vaccines as they were transiting into the mercury free
formula. For those years, 2000, 2001, 2002, 1003 and I'm quite certain into 2004, a lot of
this stuff was still sitting on shelves. In the meantime, we started giving the flu shot to
pregnant women and infant children, which still contains the full amount of mercury. We
never hit zero, and now we're back up. If a women who gets the flu shot is pregnant, the
fetus will be exposed to that. Then the child gets another flu shot at 6 months, 7 months
and 18 months. With all the residual mercury in some of the other shots, the child is
getting about 85 micrograms of mercury, total exposure. Which is, yes, much less than it
used to be, but, we're not at zero. And again, the mitrochrondial disease, at least for a
subset of these kids, given that they have that disease, they might be sensitive to any
amount of mercury, or any toxin that could set them over the edge.

IMUS: Then, in these vaccines, whether the mercury is used as a preservative or not, a
trace amount of mercury is used in all vaccines.

DAVID: That's correct. About 1/2 micrograms in most of the shots these kids are getting.
That's very, very little, in and of itself. The point is, if you do have some type of allergic
problem with this or you do have an inability to secret it, it will accumulate in your body. I
think the evidence is pointing now, beyond just mercury, beyond just thimerosal. I believe
there are several things in our environment that can trigger several different types of
conditions and predisposition's that ultimately manifest in symptoms we diagnose as
autism. Whether it truly is classic autism or not, you don't really care.

IMS: What are they?

DAVID: It may be genetics, because of mitrochrondial health, in other words, cellular
energy, because of a pre-exisitng autoimmune condition, allergic condition. Given any set
of those conditions, and then getting any set of triggers, mercury in vaccines, the number
and type of vaccine we're giving now, pollution in the air, pesticides, flame retardants or
even just if a kid is set up for regression.....whatever gets there first, I'm talking
hypothetically, but, whatever gets there first may set off the regression. In most cases in
this country, that insult came in the form of a vaccine.

IMUS: You know what I never understood? They warn people particularly pregnant
women, not to eat fish because of the extraordinary high levels of mercury they found in
fish. In fact, the NY Times did a study, went around to sushi joints and they found an
insane level of mercury in these various fish. It's my understanding the form of mercury in
fish is not as lethal as the form of mercury in vaccines. So, what has never made sense to
me, if they don't want you to eat a less lethal form of mercury in fish, they think it's okay
or fine to inject any amount of mercury into the bloodstream of an infant. Just on a
common sense level, sounds to me INSANE!

DAVID: Some people think it is. It's certainly contradictory, that the NY Times reported
the ultra high levels of mercury in Tuna, which means environmental levels in general are
going up. They reported New Jersey is trying to implement mandatory flu vaccines for
kids going to school. Everyone should go online right now and look up the flu vaccine.
Look up the product insert. It will say, and don't quote me exactly, something like "this
product has not been studied in pregnant women. The reproductive effects are unknown.
The impact on the fetus is unknown. this product is not indicated for pregnant women
unless medically necessary".

IMUS: Now you are not saying, I know I'm not saying, that there is a definitive, drop dead
link between autism and thimerosal in vaccines. What you're saying and what I'm saying
is, at some point, we need to all reach a definitive scientific determination if, in fact that is
the case. Is that what you're saying?

DAVID. Absolutely.

IMUS: Okay, so why do people characterize you and others, and me, though I'm less to the
story than anyone else, my wife is a big part of the story and so are you....why are you all
characterized as being crazy when you are not saying what they say you are saying?

DAVID: If you sat down and read only the studies the people seem to be reading...and you
ignore the studies that people like me and Diedre read, you would come to the same
conclusion....David Kirby is crazy, what is he talking about? People need to do their own
homework. Listen, I think the biggest problem here is we're all operating in a vacuum.
This court case that was just conceded is a confidential document. The government does
not think we should be able to see it.

IMUS: Now, you're talking about the vaccine court?

DAVID: I'm talking about the vaccine court. Now the family that just won this settlement
can go back to court and ask permission of the government to talk about what happened
to their child.

IMUS; What did the vaccine court determine?

DAVID: They determined this child have an underlying microchrondrial disorder, which
produces low cellular energy and was aggravated by her vaccines. She got 9 vaccines in 1
day. 5 shots....9 vaccines. Within months she regressed into autism. In fact, she was
diagnosed with full-blown autism.

IMUS: Why haven't we read about that in the NY Times or seen it on NBC nightly news?

DAVID: Well, the NY Times is not particularly interested in this story. There are reporters
out there this week trying to cover it, but, until the family gets permission from
government to speak, I'm not sure how much coverage it actually is going to get. You
know, I love being on your show, but, I wish instead of me being here this morning, you
have somebody from the HHS. Because what we basically have over there is a wall of
silence. Why is it not okay to talk about this? Why is this confidential? Exactly whose
interests are being protected if the family says it's perfectly okay to talk about
this....and...the family wants to talk about it? Why is the government saying we can't talk
about it? Those rules are in place to protect the privacy of the family, which has already
been waived.

IMUS: We're out of time .....thank you Mr. Kirby;

David Kirby will be Don Imus' guest on the radio Tuesday, scheduled for 6:29am Eastern.

You can hear Imus online HERE (scroll down to the bottom of the page) at WABC Radio 770 in New York. Or watch on the RFD Network if you have it in your area.


Autism mom

"The best we can do is put together a strong case."

We might do better than that, who knows unless we try. If anyone wants to do this, I would be happy to volunteer a few hours a week. The editors will know how to reach me.

PS: Just happened to see the Randy Pausch lecture, and I don't particularly care about his mother's comment about doctors. Sorry, not true, not per our experience. Liked the part about the brick wall however.


Sandy Gottstein

PS There is nothing that puts together the link without a doubt. The powers that be have not only avoided acknowledging any studies that demonstrate a link but they have also, of course, avoided doing any studies that might get at the truth (e.g., studying the never-vaccinated). I, especially, would not be the right person to try and suggest otherwise since my mantra for the past nearly 20 years has been to get those studies done.

The best we can do is put together a strong case.

It might be better to lobby to get Maloney's bill passed, so that the information becomes public knowledge and less refutable. I mentioned yesterday that perhaps we should ask the three presidential candidates to introduce her bill in the Senate. Could that be a good place to start?

Sandy Gottstein

I meant to say I hope people are NOT getting sick of hearing from me!

Good grief.

Sandy Gottstein

Thank you, Autism mom, for thinking of me. I will be happy to do what I can, but probably can't do it alone because my health is a bit iffy right now, so I can't push myself too hard.

Autism mom

"Most of the people online who are saying that John McCain is crazy, Don
Imus is crazy, David Kirby is crazy....have not bothered to read these studies. It's
frustrating because you want to have a scientific discussion but you are talking to people
who only have half the picture."

It seems to be a given that people only have half the picture OR want only half the picture to be given out. If that is the case, then the very important question becomes -

Does anyone *have* an unequivocally complete picture that without doubt highlights the vaccine-autism linkage?

If not, whose job is it to put together a complete picture anyway?

Finally, and this is VERY IMPORTANT, once this information is put together, how will it be disseminated to the bio-medical community to be used by its members to quote at will anytime anyone disputes the vaccine-autism linkage on any forum whatsoever. This is specifically pertinent because whenever the issue of vaccines is brought up, people invariably shift the topic to the one of thimerosal, thereby diluting the message.

Just putting down some thoughts I had on this. I was also thinking Sandy Gottstein, provided she is amenable, would be a good choice to put this together since she already has loads of information on her fingertips.

Sandy Gottstein

I also wrote this about the subject, even more recently: "Scandals: On cheating 'the other guy'", http://www.vaccinationnews.com/Scandals/2008/Feb_18_08/Scandal86.htm

All the best,

Sandy Gottstein

I not only believe it is not okay to have 1 out of 150 sacrificed for the common good, I have serious doubts about the entire notion. Here is what I wrote recently: "Scandals: Forced Vaccinations - Musings on what the road to Hell is paved with" - http://www.vaccinationnews.com/Scandals/2007/Nov_21_07/Scandal83.htm

I hope people are getting sick of hearing from me!

K Fuller

I really think that the empty heads at the top think that they are pushing vacines for the greater good. Well it is not ok for 1in150 kids to be sacrificed for the greater good. It is not ok for my son to be sacrificed. It is just not ok.

Alison Davis

Here's an interesting thought- David Kirby said regarding McCain:

"...he has a very good medical and science staff. He would not have made this statement flippantly, and, it didn't come out of nowhere."

I believe he's absolutely right. Could the powers-that-be know he's next for the White House? Moreover, has McCain been encouraged to side with the injured because much more is actually known about the "shift-in-thought" trends, scientific evidence, and legal decisions coming down the pike?


This is all very, very, disturbing.This suggests a massive coverup by several different governmental entities which can no longer be contained. We have no idea how high up this will lead but as more information comes out I am sure heads will start rolling.

Sandy Gottstein

Gimme, I couldn't agree with you more. Say you have eliminated mercury when you haven't, watch the autism rates continue to rise, and claim that mercury has nothing to do with the rise because the mercury has been removed. It's hard not to be cynical and not think this is deliberate.

Gimme more mercury

"With all the residual mercury in some of the other shots, the child is
getting about 85 micrograms of mercury, total exposure. Which is, yes, much less than it
used to be, but, we're not at zero."

Now we know WHY the CDC mandated "every year flu shot upto age 18." Pure "genius." Stupid media. Gullible population. Sick as hell nation.

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