'Science is Still out' on Autism, Vaccine Link, New Health Official Says
When the Siblings Speak

Old School Trolling is Back

Troll docNote: Occasionally we work a magic trick at AofA - making the irrelevant au courant, if only for a moment.   Below, we bring you a clip from a long running pro-vaccine injury, pro industry, faux wood paneled, don't mind the Tang stains on the green shag carpet blog run by a doctor who delights in the harm that has come to our children.  We bring you Orac's take on our content earlier this week.

You can see James Lyons-Weiler's tweets about this : @lifebiomedguru see  #trollsSmellFunny https://twitter.com/lifebiomedguru

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After yesterday’s post about Leslie Manookian’s attack on James Lyons-Weiler, in which I expressed great enjoyment at a crank fight between two antivaccine activists playing out on the ages of that wretched hive of scum and quackery, Age of Autism, I debated whether to do another post on the same crank fight. After all, a major reason why I wrote about it was to demonstrate what I meant when I said I know antivaccine when I see it. On the other hand, it’s just so damned fun to watch two antivaccine loons go at it. Also, repetition is the key to education, and therefore another post, if done properly (and I intend to do it properly) can reinforce the lesson of yesterday’s post. At the very least, it can be entertaining.

If you’re not a regular reader, you might want to check out yesterday’s post, because it shows how Leslie Manookian, the ex-homeopath turned filmmaker responsible for the antivaccine propaganda film The Greater Good, is about as antivaccine as they come. Indeed, so antivaccine is she that she attacked someone whom I consider to be a rabidly antivaccine quack, James Lyons-Weiler, for—gasp!—supposedly supporting school vaccine mandates, as long as there are personal belief exemptions allowed, all the while proclaiming how vaccines harm every child who receives them. Not surprisingly, James Lyons-Weiler was not pleased. Indeed, he had to fire back, and he was given a platform to do so on—where else?—on the same antivaccine crank blog where Manookian launched her first broadside, AoA.

The resulting article by Lyons-Weiler, Have I Lost It? Promoting Medical Exemptions is not “Pro-Mandate”: No Litmus Test for Vaccine Risk Awareness, is interesting for a number of reasons, not all of them my amusement at watching two antivaccine cranks go to war. Again, remember that the criticism leveled at Lyons-Weiler by Manookian is that he supposedly supported school vaccine mandates, as long as there was an “out” for parents in the form of personal belief exemptions and that he suggested that genetic testing could be used to determine which children were “at risk” for “vaccine injury.” Amusingly, Lyons-Weiler tries to turn that criticism right back on Manookian. I laughed out loud as I read: MORE.

Comments

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Morag

Who the heck is responsible and accountable for training some of these clowns ,Dr Mengele and Dr Konig School of medicine perhaps?
The more we do to you the less you seem to believe we are doing it --- Joseph Mengele.
Farid Fata-oncologist -jailed 45yrs
Harold Shipman GP mass murd'rr with single syringe dose diamorphine .
Ian Patterson breast surgeon -jailed 15 yrs .
Simon Bramhall -liver branding surgeon , branded his own initials at least twice onto liver transplant patients new livers.
In his diary ,Mengele predicted ninety percent of humans would die of stupidity . Based on the Nazi natural selection doctrine .
Glad to see with absolute certanty. Age of Autism and other similar organisations are well within the ten percent survival prediction percentage zone .
Queen -We are the champions -youtube
Our fab Queen still very capable of skelping their sorry hin-ends, straight into the middle of next week,no problem at all !

michael

If I needed an emetic or a purgative, then I might take a Gorksi, but otherwise not needed here.

Jenny

Well, I'm not sure I've ever been on his site and I don't think I'll bother now, but knowing how meticulous pro-vaccine marketing and damage control adminstrators are at covering all their bases and installing blockades in every vector of science or medicine that could possible reveal the seedy reality of vaccines, one has to consider why a cancer man like him was chosen to take on their mantel. If he is an oncologist, has he been placed and groomed to do his best to head off of any talk about vaccines causing cancer? And if so, why? What do the pharma companies know about vaccines and cancer that nobody much discusses, as the autism sites focus only on autism. Maybe its actually in their best interest to allow so much energy to be focused on the autism debacle because if the conversation encompassed cancer, there would be some serious shit hitting the fan, since its already known that 1 in 3 females and 1 in 2 males will encounter cancer in their lifetime and I think they've been much less successful tagging cancer as genetic than they were isolating and defining autism. Autism rates in children as horrific as they are pale in comparison to cancer rates in adults - but there may an underlying cause that they both share. If cancer usually takes decades to grow, what suddenly accelerates the process so quickly that now even children are getting it in ever higher numbers in their first 2 decades of life. Hmmmmm . . . . what could that be?

Vaccine exemption won't expand/mandates won't recede until they develop medicines for autism that really work, as opposed to psych drugs that barely help anyone involved in the epidemic. At this point in keeping the focus on the autism scandal, they are not losing too many profits since they have no real pharmaceutical solutions to autism at this point. If it was known right now that vaccines cause cancer and that not vaccinating could reduce the risk of cancer, they would lose billions and billions in cancer medication profits, as would the doctors administrating them. The backlash against Obamacare in the antivaccine movement was that medical control under a government already permitting the chipping away of vaccine exemption rights was intolerable. But the pharmaceutical industry, probably with support from profiteering oncologists, was also bashing Obamacare for its own reasons, including cancer treatment profits. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/04/11/a-controversial-rule-could-change-how-doctors-profit-from-using-the-most-expensive-drugs/?utm_term=.c555db85bc38
temporarily making anti-vaccine and pharmaceutical companies unlikely and convoluted partners against a single payer medical system. Even now I'm not sure that Bernie S gets that freedom to access medicine MUST only be offered in conjunction with freedom to access the type of medicine of one's choice as well as the freedom to decline it without prejudice. A chunk of our population who may have been inclined to vote for Bernie instead had to vote for the guy who at least acknowledged the issue, instead of pretending it has no import, choosing unlikely hope over no hope at all, as I'm sure was predicted by those who would best benefit from undercutting Obamacare initiatives. In essence, the syringe was wielded like a knife. A lot needs to happen before the next election or the same exact choice will be on the table again.

Maybe it was originally Gorski's job to prevent that shift in conversation from autism to cancer from happening from behind the scenes. At the point that a vaccine/cancer conversation comes to the forefront, tho, Gorski will have to really step up to the plate publicly and start spewing his vitriol as a cancer professional describing why vaccines can't possibly be contributing to cancer rate increases. I don't know what his public persona is, but it would be well tested. That may be a hard pill for him to swallow as the vaccine inserts themselves state the vaccines haven't been tested for whether they are carcinogenic so what science would he lean on at that point? With oncologists allowed to profit from chemotherapy prescriptions, could anyone believe him due to his financial conflict of interest anyway? Does the future of vaccine freedom and advocacy to prevent autism ultimately lie in the hands of cancer patients?

Jenny Allan

Gorski quote from above:-
"After yesterday’s post about Leslie Manookian’s attack on James Lyons-Weiler, in which I expressed great enjoyment at a crank fight between two antivaccine activists playing out on the ages of that wretched hive of scum and quackery, Age of Autism."

I'm afraid I don't find this funny at all. For years AoA has been monitored by Gorski, whose nasty so called 'science blogs' are quick to jump on any sign of dissension in our ranks. It's to James Lyons-Weiler's credit he came back on to this site to defend himself against Leslie Manookian’s harsh comments, which were unfortunately echoed by several regular commenter's here. I was pleased to see most persons were supportive of JLW's moderate views and his courage in expressing them.

As I stated on another thread, I do not subscribe to campaigns determined to ban all vaccines, although I am respectful of those who hold this view, particularly parents of vaccine damaged children. Some of those 'ban all vaccines' comments reminded me of the Orwellian 'four legs good, two legs bad' mantra. George Orwell understood human nature and that old 'divide and rule' strategy is still used to good effect by our enemies and Gorski is one of them; a failed physician, he is reduced to ranting on his corporate sponsored internet blogs, which rely on large numbers of persons reading this rubbish. Basically, AoA should not be giving this nasty rhetoric 'house room'. The best way to deal with the likes of Gorski and 'Science Blogs' is to completely ignore them.

As I understand it Science Blogs is being discontinued unless it can find a buyer. Don't give this nasty blogger any more free advertising.

Autism Investigated

Kim, what happened to this promise you made? "I was trying not to stoop to their level - no we won't be linking or welcoming anyone back to the blogosphere - certainly not David Gorski."
http://www.ageofautism.com/2017/10/the-end-of-an-error.html

Now you're not only linking to his new blog, but circulating its content too?!

nhokkanen

Classic nasty Gorski. Sophomoric argumentum ad hominem fetishizing over copy-and-paste outtakes, delivered with toothless proclamations and some unintended revelation about his misanthropic life.

And reeeally reaching nowadays. He sneers at the role of core directors, but then takes it back and assures readers that the only useless core director was/is Lyons-Weiler. Gorac has a lot at stake in discouraging medical professionals and others from scrutinizing vaccine safety failures.

As public resistance to vaccine fraud increases, the pitch and volume of Gorski’s whining have shot up like a hot teakettle screaming on a stovetop.

Would you buy a vaccine from this person?
Would you trust your health or your child’s health to this person?

Cait from Canada

I realize that this is not very scientific, but Orac-Gorski creeps me out in a Brian Deer kind of way. I gather that he is a surgical oncologist specializing in breast cancer surgery, which creeps me out even more. I can't imagine letting him anywhere near my body! No big surprise that his patient rating is only 2.4 stars out of 5. In fact, a majority of patients gave him a 1-star rating.

Orac questions James Lyons-Weiler's credentials, but what makes him, a third rate surgical oncologist, an expert on vaccination?

He also accuses J L-W of confirmation bias, which is truly laughable, since J L-W actually changed his mind about vaccination after reviewing the science. Whereas I suspect Orac doesn't even bother to read the science — he certainly doesn't reference it — his mind is so firmly made up.

Someone

As Voltaire once wrote, "It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong."

I think that Orac is afraid to be "right", and stand with the minority => us, and that he greatly prefers the comfort of being "wrong" with a group of people who reject the painful and painfully obvious truth that vaccines cause autism.

Even former Republican candidate for President, Senator John McCain, once stated that truth. Seems many people know it, but refuse to admit it publicly. All those at Simpsonwood admitted that truth and decided not to announce it to the world, but rather to hide it. How can anyone "unknow" what is known and has been stated in a private meeting held by members of the AAP, CDC, WHO, and others, including immunologists at Simpsonwood, once those comments have been made public? It is a national disgrace, a crime against humanity, to continue to harm so many, knowingly and willingly.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/04/us/politics/04autism.html

Angus Files

Orac and the darkside living the vaccine cozy lie..

Pharma For Prison

MMR RIP

Jeannette Bishop

So, Dr. Gorski weighs in, eloquently demonstrating why medical exemptions are far, far, far from adequate in protecting the health and life of the patient, personal dignity and right to personal autonomy and self-determination of how to be healthy not even in the ballpark...not that anyone argued medical exemptions were adequate, except perhaps Gorski, himself...I couldn't read beyond a paragraph or two...

Benedetta

When you sell your soul to big pharma; when you heart is harden toward some one who is heart broken (as the stories of vaccine reactions that parents tell) Then you really have no idea what real debate and exchange of ideas are. Since any idea as far as you are concerned depends on the money.

Linda1

"Listen to the shrill, extreme hate rhetoric of David Gorski. "

I can't.

Barry

Listen to the shrill, extreme hate rhetoric of David Gorski.

***********

Sounds more like fear to me.

As well it should. Because the world is slowly waking up, to the unspeakable crimes that these people have committed against the children of the world.

John Stone

Listen to the shrill, extreme hate rhetoric of David Gorski. Gorski could never respond to questions of science or safety, what he's good at is hate. What is evident here is that what he is defending is the policy - for which there is no body of evidence - even Offit got cold feet over the 10,000 vaccines doctrine and pretended he had never said it. I have never been of the view that everyone on our side of the fence has to agree about everything but with Gorski you just here the sound of jackboots. It is not intellectually competent, it is not dignified. Is there a note of panic?

bob moffit

Orac:

"Mandates are not scientifically unfounded. They’ve been the basis of US vaccine policy for several decades now, and the result has been consistently high levels of vaccination"

Duh .. it is precisely because "US vaccine policy for several decades has resulted in consistently high levels of vaccination" .. has been accompanied by an extraordinarily high dramatic increase in chronic childhood autoimmune disorders .. such as .. autism, allergies, asthma, juvenile type 1 diabetes, on and on. .. chronic autoimmune disorders that were historically far less common in all previous .. LESS VACINATED GENERATIONS.

That chronic autoimmune disorders have risen .. each and every time another "recommended and approved" vaccine has been added to the most aggressive vaccine policies in the world .. doesn't seem to bother Orac .. his only concern is maintaining "consistently high levels of vaccination".

I consider it an honor to be called "scum and quack" by someone so deliberately ignorant of the verified .. inexplicable .. deteriorating child health in the US .. including the dismal US "infant mortality" rate .. where an infant born in 34 developed countries that vaccinate less than US .. has a much better chance of surviving the "high levels of vaccination" they must endure in Orac's world.

Grace Green

This uneducated person doesn't even know that the word "quack" refers to purveyors of quicksilver, otherwise known as mercury. So those of us who support this website are clearly "anti-quackery" and he is the - er -Quack. Glad I'm not one of his patients. Please don't reprint any more of his tripe. (That's tripe, as in lungs of a dead animal.)

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