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Is there Mercury in the Present UK Flu Vaccine?

Calvin-harris-press-gavin-bond-2015-billboard-650by John Stone

"However, another authoritative source British National Formulary/National Institutes for Healthcare Excellence (BNF NICE) listing this season's products states that all the suspensions "may contain" thiomersal. The position is ambiguous to say the least."  

A row has apparently blown up in the media between a mega star that I have never heard of, Calvin Harris, with 12.7 million twitter followers and British health officials. Harris has apparently claimed that there is mercury in the 2017 UK flu shot. No such claim I would like to make clear has ever been made on this website. While it is difficult to find out exactly which products are being given I have just checked through the ingredients of ten products I was able to identify and none had mercury, thiomersal or thimerosal listed.

Perhaps Mr Harris was basing his claim on the situation in the US where officials seem more inclined to brazen it out. It may be pointed out as well that the same health officials who are out now trying to re-assure people that there is no mercury in the shot are very likely the same ones who were previously trying assure them it was perfectly safe.

Post Script: This appears to be the bottom line. There is a letter 20 March 2017 signed by representatives of the UK Department of Health, Public Health England, NHS England (Dame Sally C Davies, Prof Paul Cosford and Prof Sir Bruce Keogh). On pages 24-6 there is a list of products with one or two additions to those I linked to. Underneath is the statement p. 26:"None of the influenza vaccines for the 2017/18 season contain thiomersal as an added preservative"

The odd wording suggests the possibility that thiomersal may have been used in the preparation of some of the products, perhaps as a sterilising agent, and therefore could be present at trace levels.

 Post Post Script: However, another authoritative source British National Formulary/National Institutes for Healthcare Excellence (BNF NICE) listing this season's products states that all the suspensions "may contain" thiomersal. The position is ambiguous to say the least.  

Suspension for injection All products

Excipients

May contain

Gentamicin, kanamycin, neomycin penicillins, polymyxin b, thiomersal

Comments

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Eindecker

John: Post Post Script: However, another authoritative source British National Formulary/National Institutes for Healthcare Excellence (BNF NICE) listing this season's products states that all the suspensions "may contain" thiomersal. The position is ambiguous to say the least.
Hopefully for not much longer, see BNF reply I received below, as I wrote previously the BNF points to the eMC as the source for all detailed information regarding medicines licensed for sale in the UK so, as an educated guess, and as none of the UK licensed flu vaccines lists thiomersal as a trace component I think that the BNF will probably remove reference to thiomersal in the sentence that you found, but we will see.
Dear XXXX
Thank you for contacting the BNF regarding the excipient thiomersal in influenza vaccines. Apologies for the delay in replying to your enquiry.
In light of your comments, we will review this content and make any necessary changes. Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention. Please note that the BNF gives priority to clinically relevant updates, and the most urgent are dealt with first, with other issues being addressed as part of our regular review schedule. For this reason we are unable to guarantee a timeline for the investigation work and appreciate your patience.

As was shown for the Australian flu vaccines data sources such as the UK’s eMC exist in most countries, eg the US https://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228#cstat As we know all multi dose presentations have 25µg thiomersal, as a preservative, but there are 13 single dose products listed, of which 12 have no thiomersal one, Fluvirin, is listed as having a “trace”, defined as <1 µg thiomersal per dose.
Cia: This US source clearly distinguishes between the one single dose vaccine having a “trace” of thiomersal and those that are thiomersal free because of a change in manufacturing protocol to eliminate the use of thiomersal, so thiomersal free means precisely that.
But it is very likely that individual providers are continuing to use already existing, mercury-containing stock Fantasy time Cia, how many reasons do you want? Flu strains used in preparing vaccines vary from year to year and are labelled as such, in the UK at least doctors surgeries & pharmacies have to give their orders in advance of the forthcoming flu season, small matter of expiry dates and it is simply not the career destroying risk of using an unlicensed vaccine, as the formulations change they are licensed on a yearly basis.

Angus Files

Bonkers from the Daily Fail probably never killed enough people last year but in the meantime carry on as usual having your vaccines.

Last year's jab was only 20-30% effective - and the same may happen this year

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5057391/Flu-vaccine-20-effective-winter.html#ixzz4xjpSWz00

Pharma For Prison

MMR RIP

Angus Files

Exactly Cia there is no safe dose of mercury echo that as well.

Pharma For Prison

MMR RIP

cia parker

Eindecker

I appreciate that you have written trying to determine if there are any multivial doses of flu vaccine being used in the UK. It looks as though they are now producing only single dose vials, which would not have more than "trace amounts" of mercury. And it looks as though it would be impossible to determine how much of a trace one got in his vaccine, but even the most infinitesimal doses are very damaging to those most sensitive to it, like me and the members of my family.

But it is very likely that individual providers are continuing to use already existing, mercury-containing stock, unless a law has been passed prohibiting it, and I don't think there has been. In 1999, Merck agreed to stop making Recombivax with mercury at the congressional safety hearings in May of that year. However, it continued selling already-existing mercury-containing stock until its expiration date in 2002. And so Capital Region Medical Center bought mercury-containing Recombivax in 2000 and gave it to my newborn without permission, and she both reacted to it with mercury toxicity (rash, excessive drooling for ten years, and sweating all over the top of her head even in cool rooms) and had vaccine encephalitis (screaming syndrome for four days and nights and apnea). Because no law had been passed prohibiting it. Both Merck and Capital Region knew that the vaccine still being sold had mercury which was going to damage newborns, but they went on selling it, buying it, and giving it without permission anyway. Who cares, when it's so easy to dismiss and deny?

I found this at Moms Against Mercury, but it looks as though that site no longer exists. Fortunately I had copied it, and found it at another site.

https://www.yourlawyer.com/defective-drugs/thimerosal/merck-misled-vaccines-say/

I echo Angus. Pharma for Prison. But first I want our pound of flesh. Compensation for the life of my daughter and punitive damages too.

Eindecker

Update from NICE regarding their web site information re flu vaccine & thiomersal:
Dear XXXX
Thank you for contacting the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE).
Although we host the BNF on our website, please be aware that for enquiries relating to the content of the BNF you will need to contact BNF directly via their contact page.
I hope this information is helpful.

I have now sent the query to the BNF

Jenny What is or is not licensed in the UK is completely irrelevant. Multi dose vials are currently in use in the US and the Antipodes Since the title of John's piece was concerning the UK seasonal flu vaccine & thiomersal I think finding out the info re UK vaccine is quite relevant. Also sorry to correct you but only single dose flu vaccines were licensed for use in Australia in 2017
http://immunise.health.gov.au/internet/immunise/publishing.nsf/Content/ATAGI-advice-influenza-vaccines-providers
But yes multi dose flu vaccine products are used in the US

John Stone

This is the original story about 1 in 11 pregnant women dying from flu (rather 1 in 11 women who died from infectious disease having flu), which was misleading, but before it was completely scrambled:

https://www.nhs.uk/news/pregnancy-and-child/around-1-in-10-maternal-deaths-due-to-flu/

I cannot find the 2017 version on-line.

Grace Green

Jeanette Bishop, thanks for that link about the ridiculous claims by the NHS about flu in pregnancy, and an entirely appropriate compliment for John Stone from Dr. Wakefield.

Angus Files

Thanks Morag that`s put ideas in my head(a bad thing) the bit in the story of Island Roan where the ex pirate painted his boat down the middle in two different colors so that people on the shoreline wouldn't see the same color of boat coming back after his robbing raids! now if id do that with my car my nosy neighbors wont know when I COME BACK yes!

Pharma for Prison.
MMR RIP

John Stone

Cia

I have no indication so far - following enquiries - that multidose vials are being used in the UK this year. The NHS Choices statement -certainly current - about there being a small amount of mercury in thiomersal (as we know 50% by weight) echoes the letter of Elizabeth Miller to the Sunday Times in 2001:

"Because of theoretical concerns that the small amount of mercury in thiomersal could be harmful, both European and United Kingdom regulators have recommended that manufacturers phase out its use wherever possible as a precaution."

http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/12/the-british-dimension-the-who-mercury-cover-up-and-the-cdc.html

It took them a further three years to phase out the mercury in the DPT which of course was present at x250 the Hazchem threshold, and not therefore small. The WHO position - cited on NHS Choices - was established on the back of the Miller paper ((Andrews et al) discussed in the above link and perhaps the one by Pichichero.

http://www.ageofautism.com/2016/11/not-all-mercury-is-toxic-but-dr-heidi-larson-is-as-she-endorses-mercury-in-vaccines.html

Jenny Allan

Apologies for regurgitating part of an earlier post, but this is important:-

"I do wonder whether the single dose flu vaccines will turn out to be completely impractical. If large numbers of persons are getting jabbed at the same time, the multi dose vials are both quicker and cheaper. Reading between the lines of all these 'official' UK health vaccine information sites, they are definitely keeping their options open on Thiomersal. Why else would they go to such lengths to defend this dangerous compound, if they are truly committed to eliminating it in vaccines?"

Yes Eindekker - we AGREE ( we always did) the UK Government wants to use single dose flu vaccines this winter and we also agree these jabs have no added preservatives. What is or is not licensed in the UK is completely irrelevant. Multi dose vials are currently in use in the US and the Antipodes and they contain Thiomersal mercury compound for the reasons explained elsewhere on this thread.

If a UK flu epidemic is predicted, licences for multi dose flu jabs would be quickly granted, that's if they're not already licenced and held in reserve. The Guardian Newspaper,( it WOULD be them -usually backed up by the BBC 'Guardianistas'), is already predicting a UK epidemic of Australian type flu.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/28/uk-doctors-braced-for-winter-flu-outbreak
From above:-
“Doctors in Britain are bracing themselves for an outbreak of flu in the next few weeks that could match Australia’s recent epidemic – one of the worst for a decade.
At least 170,000 cases were confirmed at the end of the Australian winter, more than twice as many as in 2016. Federal health officials say they logged 72 flu-related deaths among this year’s total.
“We know that the virus responsible for a large number of those cases was a strain of the H3N2 influenza virus,” says Prof Andrew Easton, of Warwick University.

“A similar viral strain was used to create part of the vaccine that has been distributed round Britain this month. However, we do not know how well it will work until this year’s flu epidemic begins.”
The flu outbreak that struck Australia and New Zealand was not particularly severe in individual terms. Most deaths occurred among the elderly, as is often the case with influenza.”

On a local level our health centre was overwhelmed administering flu jabs last year. I ended up not getting one, (my fault), although it's been officially acknowledged last year's jabs were ineffective for my age group (65+) anyway. So far we have not been contacted and asked to make an appointment. I find that ominous. I'll keep you posted.


Jenny Allan

John and Jeannette - More Facebook fun, this time from the Aussies.

https://www.facebook.com/Sunrise/videos/10154946887805887/?fref=mentions
"Australia suffered through its worst flu season on record this year because we used a cheap vaccine that didn’t work, doctors have warned.
Does this make you think twice about getting the jab?"
#sun7 | www.yahoo7.com.au/sunrise

cia parker

John,

This may be dated information, but it's still at an NHS website, and looks suspicious.

"Thiomersal (mercury) in vaccines
Thiomersal is a preservative that contains small amounts of mercury. It's used to prevent the growth of bacteria or fungi in the vaccine.
High doses of mercury can be toxic to the brain and other organs. However, no harmful effects have been linked with the level of thiomersal used in the small amounts present in vaccines.
Although there have been concerns in the past that vaccines that contain thiomersal can cause autism, there is no scientific evidence that this is the case.
The World Health Organization (WHO) has stated there is no risk from thiomersal in vaccines – read the WHO statement in full.
Thiomersal is no longer used in any of the vaccines routinely given to babies and young children in the NHS childhood immunisation programme."

https://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vaccinations/Pages/vaccine-ingredients.aspx

cia parker

John,

I don't know if the UK is using multidose vials of flu vaccine. I can tell you that our local supermarket, Schnucks, ONLY sells multidose flu vaccine, Fluzone, on a regular basis, even now. Its flyer says that if you're pregnant or over 65, you should probably get the "preservative-free" version, but they'll have to special order it. They don't even say that children should get the mercury-free version. In other words, I'll bet they're still selling most flu vaccine in the UK in multidose vials with the full component of mercury.

John Stone

Thanks Jeannette, that made my year!

Jeannette Bishop

Sorry, the above link might soon be outdated. Maybe this is better:
https://www.facebook.com/wearevaxxed/videos/545792452434702/

Jeannette Bishop

Rebuttal of claim that 1 in 11 pregnant women who get flu die (with shout out to John Stone @ about 15:00):

https://www.facebook.com/wearevaxxed/?hc_ref=ARSDhQMIoWNSaa3SiuJnlaOl53TgY3l7EJOMgiU8Cwhmr9SIw80y3Q95nix5eTTRXFs

John Stone

Eindecker

Well thank you for recognising that I have not made up the problem, and for taking such a helpful step. Do not also forget the strange wording of Sally Davies, Paul Cosford and Bruce Keogh in their letter of March: "None of the influenza vaccines for the 2017/18 season contain thiomersal as an added preservative", which seems to indicate it will nevertheless be there at least in some of them. If I may suggest it is either because they believed it would be used in the manufacture of the vaccines, or because they were not at all sure that it would not.

Eindecker

Dear John
I have e-mailed NICE today asking for clarification of their apparently contradictory (or ambiguous) statements re thiomersal in UK licensed seasonal flu vaccines, I will post the reply when I receive it

Morag

Angus ,John, "Suspender elastic is in the garbage bin ,it just went ping!"
The cook-Book recipies ingredients list don't even meet a basic threshold to qualify for a modicum of the most basic public trust ,confidence, or respect.
Poor Mr Morgan appears to have been left hoarse with some kind of frog in his throat ? as well .
I hope his unkind Media colleagues are not trying to suggest he might have been drinking puddle or pond water and perhaps accidently swallowed a [tadpole-polliwog] or some thing ?
Have they not heard of the principle of" OCCAM'S RAZOR" ? John. my family member John George MacKay wrote in The Story of Island Roan about Sir Christopher Andrews and Scientists from Harvard University in 1950 Field Lab Research to find a cure for the common cold . I wonder what they found of interest ? Available to read on Skerray .com The story of Island Roan by J.GMacKay No 6 Borgie 1962 Price 2s 6d .

Hera

Barry;
I get your point; repeatedly lies about the safety of vaccines ( any reaction is always a coincidence, or in the case of gardasil, paralysis is apparently redefined as a psychiatric disorder...) don't exactly help in terms of trusting those who make such statements.
Of course it is both sad but also horrifying how blatantly wrong or under educated some of the supposed "experts" can be; one of my personal favorite comments is a supposed expert saying thimerosal has now been taken out of the MMR, apparently because they weren't even aware of the basic fact that live virus vaccines did not ever contain it because it would have killed the live virus.With "experts" like those, it is hard to have faith in anything else they say...

Barry

Hera ,

My main point is that when I comes to vaccination, everything that we've ever been told is disingenuous. And all most of need to do is look at our vaccine disabled children, to see an unimaginably painful reminder of that fact.

We can guess all day long about how much mercury is still in vaccines. And you could be right, I could be right, or maybe both us will be wrong... who knows? The only ones who can say for sure, are the vaccine manufactures.

And anyone who actually believes that they do know , because they read it on the vaccine insert. Are like people who believe they got the deal of century on their new car.... because that's what the car salesman told them.

Hera

Barry,

Imo, most likely since thimerosal is "no longer used as a preservative" in the UK, though it seems it may be still used in the manufacturing process, the amount of thimerosal in the vaccines is almost certainly less than it was.
Of course, the number of vaccines being given has also concurrently increased.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/650485/Vaccination_timeline.pdf

If I am reading this data correctly, ( though I am not sure if the shingles vaccine is being given to children ; it may be an adult vaccine?)

Within the UK, vaccines have been added to include
maternal influenza starting in 2010,
maternal pertussis starting in 2012,
2013 childrens influenza, rotovirus and shingles
2015 meningococcal B and ACWY
2017 the hexavalent DTAP/IPVV/HIB/HEPB
So, maybe while there is less potential for people to have side effects or reactions to one ingredient, more potential side effects and reactions could occur from maternal vaccines now being given in utero, and of course, from the continually increasing childhood vaccines.
While less thimerosal is no doubt a good thing, the mainstream refusal to acknowledge concurrent huge increases with in utero vaccination, for example, seems a little disingenuous.

( By the way sorry about all the typos earlier; I really must start proof reading. Oops)

Barry

Only trouble with that theory is the removal of thiomersal from vaccines in many countries for many years has had absolutely no measurable effect on ASD stats, and I'm afraid your anecdotal observations re ASD behaviours would need a lot more evidence and support.

*****************

Other than the assertion that vaccines prevent disease.... what could be more anecdotal than you asserting that mercury has been removed from any vaccine?

Because lets be honest, although love to spout both fictions all the time.... you've NEVER provided even a shred of fact to show that either one is actually true

Angus Files

Exactly Morag Piers not to be seen at the Quacks again he seems to have taken a lesson mind you CNN were saying at the time it was to do with other pathogens and NOT the flu vaccine.Aye right!

OK I know where were going wrong - get the pharma goggles on and then you see that all the efficacy and the prevention's they purport are actually in fact deaths its a lot clearer with these pharma goggles on a bit blinding but..

Of course, instead of admitting the uselessness of the vaccine, health professionals are blaming the elderly themselves.

A representative of PHE told BBC News, “As people age, their immune systems are often weaker and therefore their bodies may not respond as well to a vaccine as younger people’s bodies.”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-41111834?utoken=418093.51877.66d252a452611e36e7f4c59ffd9afde0

The U.K.’s Daily Mail reports that instead of admitting defeat and encouraging seniors to pursue proven, natural flu prevention strategies (more on that later), health officials continue to punt the flu shot
:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4843310/Flu-vaccines-work-children-NOT-elderly.html

Despite the vaccine’s lack of success in the elderly, experts still recommend older people continue to have the injection.

In other words: It’s useless and we know it, but you need to have it anyway.

Even worse, medical “experts” have decided to double down on the insanity by introducing “HIGH -DOSE JABS" high-dose jabs that work to boost the body’s immune response to receiving the vaccine.”
So it aint if there is a shortage they are going to be using them ANYWAY!

https://www.naturalnews.com/048871_flu_shots_vaccine_paradox_immune_system.html

Of coursee you could tell the elderly just to do some..

Sunshine: Experts have recognized that vitamin D3, a hormone which your body manufactures when it is exposed to direct sunlight, kickstarts your immune system. If you are not able to get enough direct sun exposure, get a blood test to check your levels, and supplement if necessary.
Astragalus: This herb, a staple of ancient Ayurvedic and Chinese medicine, is an adaptogenic, which means it regulates your immune system up or down, as needed. Start taking this supplement well ahead of flu season to achieve maximum results.
Echinacea and golden seal: Both of these herbs are powerful immune boosters, proven to prevent the flu and other viruses. Ask your natural health practitioner to prescribe the perfect dose so that you can be ready for winter.
Lifestyle and dietary changes: If you aren’t already doing so, start including fresh, raw, organic garlic in your daily diet. Hydrating with pure, filtered water is also vitally important. Sufficient sleep and daily exercise are also essential to building the immune system, as is reducing stress as much as possible. Of course, it goes without saying that those who are serious about optimizing their immunity should avoid GMOs and increase their intake of fresh, organic fruits and veggies.

In other words: It’s useless and we know it, but don’t worry because we’re going to make it twice as effective (doubly useless), so you need to be sure to obediently keep getting it each year.

Pharma for Prison

MMR RIP

Jeannette Bishop

https://medium.com/@andreangelantoni/there-are-several-significant-errors-the-doctor-includes-in-her-article-6dfc196afd9b

John Stone

Eindecker

People can read and interpret for themselves. I have not said that there is mercury in the vaccines but I have documented the absence of a clear story. What is typical and symptomatic is that you would rather it wasn't published even though all I am doing is reporting.

"Re "There is in fact a great deal of published evidence that thiomersal/thimerosal is implicated in harm " Only trouble with that theory is the removal of thiomersal from vaccines in many countries for many years has had absolutely no measurable effect on ASD stats, and I'm afraid your anecdotal observations re ASD behaviours would need a lot more evidence and support."

No, that is flawed reasoning - the evidence is the evidence (the abstracts of nearly 200 Pubmed listed papers). And actually what I said was more complicated: the mercury came out but the schedule just kept getting longer, and possibly the symptoms changed. Nor will you address serious problems with papers by Verstraeten, Madsen, Pichichero etc. All you are concerned about is the bureaucratic rubber stamp.

Hera

Eindecker,
Respectfully, your arguments appear to be getting less and less plausible. I am wondering if perhaps you are starting to not believe them yourself?
In the end you, and the people you love are, like the rest of us, likely to be forced to vaccinate regardless of side effects unless we all work together to stop this. We are already seeing the beggining of this with laws passed in California, where unvaccianted children are quarantined form school, but children wiht actual transmissable diseases ( HIV, Hepatitis, ) are allowed to attend. If this isn't your long term plan for us all, then you might want to think about coming over to the dark side, at least as far as medical rights are concerned.
You commented about thimerosal toxicity
" Only trouble with that theory is the removal of thimerosal from vaccines in many countries for many years has had absolutely no measurable effect on ASD stats,
I know you have to have read the MSDS sheet on thimerosal. I am sure you are aware of the babies who died from having a product containing thimerosal put on their belly buttons.
If your standard for whether or not something is toxic is whether or not autism rates have dropped, then apparently their are no toxic substances in the UK at this time.

david m burd

All, The below quote is from a current U.S. FDA publication addressing mercury in vaccines:

"FDA-approved seasonal influenza vaccines are available in single-dose presentations that do not contain thimerosal as a preservative for use in infants, children, adults, the elderly and pregnant women. (Note- one vaccine, Fluvirin’s single-dose presentation utilizes thimerosal as part of its manufacturing process, not as a preservative, and a trace remains in the final presentation). Vaccines with trace amounts of thimerosal contain 1 microgram or less of mercury per dose."

Please note they say a trace amount is "1 microgram or less" - NOT .3 micrograms as claimed by many of the vaccine makers. ALSO, it's critical to note there are previous FDA documents that cite the "single-dose" of the flu vaccine comes from mass manufacturing using Thimerosal, but then the Thimerosal is claimed to be filtered out by the makers; the question arises "who the heck actually checks if the 1 microgram is valid, OR, are there higher amounts and nobody ever really checks?

The mercury expert Boyd Haley, Phd has written extensively for decades on the terrible toxicity of ethylmercury (contained in Thimerosal, 25 micrograms of ethylmercury in a .50 ml flu shot). and has asserted all the mercury used in vaccine-making cannot possibly be filtered out as it attaches to proteins that make it not possible to thus filter.

Eindeker, by the way - How can you possible believe what vaccine makers actually say?? How?!

Eindecker

John
You and I will have to disagree over whether or not there is any "ambiguity" in the thiomersal content of flu vaccines, there is plenty of documented evidence that there is none in UK flu vaccines, yes the NICE website contradicts itself re this but it clearly states that the SPC documents on the eMC data base are the go to source for detailed information, and thiomersal is not listed there in any of the flu vaccines as a trace component, where is the ambiguity in that, especially when the absence of thiomersal in single dose vaccines, (bar one not licensed in the UK), is clearly supported by the FDA data?
Re "There is in fact a great deal of published evidence that thiomersal/thimerosal is implicated in harm " Only trouble with that theory is the removal of thiomersal from vaccines in many countries for many years has had absolutely no measurable effect on ASD stats, and I'm afraid your anecdotal observations re ASD behaviours would need a lot more evidence and support.
I don't think I have any further contributions to this thread, but I don't expect you will further edit your original piece in light of what's been disclosed?

John Stone

Eindecker

In order to resolve any ambiguity I think British health officials need to get together and clarify earlier statements which have been made: then it is up to everybody else if they believe them.

Yes, the last time I had flu, 9 years ago, it was horrible and I was on the floor for nearly two weeks. It was a particularly nasty strain but the DH was forced to admit that it wasn't vaccine strain. Also, the death-toll from influenza that year was not exceptionally high - 39 and not the several thousand spuriously projected on the back of excess mortality figures. So, I agree it is worth avoiding but not a major source of mortality:

http://www.ageofautism.com/2017/09/revisiting-the-swine-flu-fiasco-of-2009.html

See the last section 'Sir Liam's skeleton'. In fact BMJ published my letter in the hard edition on this subject so it is even in Pubmed!

Two thoughts immediately occur to me about the study cited - first of all it seems to be in part based on projections, and the other is that it comes from the CDC so it isn't likely to produce any findings which conflict with policy.

Do you think Ellie Cannon, Richard Pebody, the WHO and the Daily Mail are entitled to tell people that there is no evidence that thiomersal causes harm etc? It is 50% mercury by weight - we are into bureaucratic, perhaps Humpty Dumpty, conceptions of reality.

There is in fact a great deal of published evidence that thiomersal/thimerosal is implicated in harm (this only updated to 2011):

https://www.vaccinationnews.org/evidence-thimerosal-risk

https://www.vaccinationnews.org/evidence-thimerosal-risk-page-2

Another point I think is that people over-estimate the risk of getting flu. They think it is something you get every year because that is the way it is talked about, but I last had a bout 9 years ago and the previous go was more 20 years before that. As Tom Jefferson has told us the most important thing is to keep washing your hands:

SPIEGEL: Mr. Jefferson, the world is living in fear of swine flu. And some predict that, by next winter, one-third of the world's population might be infected. Are you personally worried? Are you and your family taking any precautions?


Tom Jefferson: I wash my hands very often -- and it's not all because of swine flu. That's probably the most effective precaution there is against all respiratory viruses, and the majority of gastrointestinal viruses and germs as well.

SPIEGEL: Do you consider the swine flu to be particularly worrisome?

Jefferson : It's true that influenza viruses are unpredictable, so it does call for a certain degree of caution. But one of the extraordinary features of this influenza -- and the whole influenza saga -- is that there are some people who make predictions year after year, and they get worse and worse. None of them so far have come about, and these people are still there making these predictions. For example, what happened with the bird flu, which was supposed to kill us all? Nothing. But that doesn't stop these people from always making their predictions. Sometimes you get the feeling that there is a whole industry almost waiting for a pandemic to occur.

SPIEGEL: Who do you mean? The World Health Organization (WHO)?

Jefferson: The WHO and public health officials, virologists and the pharmaceutical companies. They've built this machine around the impending pandemic. And there's a lot of money involved, and influence, and careers, and entire institutions! And all it took was one of these influenza viruses to mutate to start the machine grinding....

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/interview-with-epidemiologist-tom-jefferson-a-whole-industry-is-waiting-for-a-pandemic-a-637119.html

Morag

Oh What! surely that's got to be a totally failed attempt on how to fudge a nudge and promote a professional prompt? .
The available data does not present itself as having a full set of tea cups and saucers in it;s own tea cups and saucers cupboard.
Angus, after watching yon youtube clip of Mr Morgan giving the flu shot a peer's review of it on a public plinth as well . I really thought I was going to rupture ma suspenders elastic right there on the spot with laughter ! "What a silly sausage " Now laughing at someone is not the done thing or ok ,but laughing with them and alongside with them is fine . " Best fast-track edcational tool in the educational toolkit as well . Now that he has been a willing "ONCER" Will he consent to being a "TWICER"I wonder?
Reminds me of Glasgow Street Songs we used for our skipping ropes games .
Murder,Murder Polis . Three floors up . The fluvial on the second floor hit him like a truck . His sinuses are clattering . His throat's all rough . Murder .murder Polis . Three floors up!

Eindecker

Dear John Here are the facts re thiomersal content and seasonal flu vaccine obtained from the FDA website https://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228#cstat As we know all multi dose presentations have 25µg thiomersal, as a preservative, but there are 13 single dose products listed, of which 12 have no thiomersal one, Fluvirin is listed as having a “trace”, defined as <1 µg thiomersal per dose.

So cross referencing to the UK situation from the eMC search there are 11 single dose flu vaccines licensed for use in the UK (no multi dose products are listed) All, bar one, list a variety of possible trace components in their SPC’s (as opposed to functional components in the vaccine) and thiomersal is not listed in any of these vaccines as a trace component Fluvirin is not licensed for use in the UK.

Regarding the discrepancy between your NICE quote and the eMC SPC information please note that the NICE site states ”For more detailed information about individual influenza vaccines, see the manufacturers' Summary of Product Characteristics on the electronic Medicines Compendium website.” so NICE clearly refers to the eMC as the source reference to be used. In the light of this statement and the US data it seems clear that seasonal flu vaccines used in the UK are thiomersal free, and that the multi dose format is not licensed for use over here, going to the original US and eMC sources there is no ambiguity, although perhaps the NICE website should follow its own guidance and check the eMC website.


Re your other comments on effectiveness and safety a study in the US on flu vaccine used 2010-2014 showed a 65% effectiveness in reducing influenza related deaths in children http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2017/03/30/peds.2016-4244 but I admit it is a guessing game as to which serotypes of flu will be responsible for the seasonal flu outbreaks, but having had flu a couple of years ago I can assure you this is definitely not “just a bad cold” it is all together different illness.

John Stone

Eindecker

I think if there is an inconsistent and ambiguous story it is not my fault. The March letter stated that thiomersal would not be present "as an added preservative", not that it would not be present. NICE/BNF state that the vaccines may contain thiomersal. Even if it was only present at the level of 0.3mcg it would still be - if I remember correctly the calculation - x3 the Hazchem threshold, which is a lot less bad than 25mcg but not "trace" as we understand it.

What strikes me is the arrogant, bullying going on here. As we know on the best analysis the benefits of these products are minute and the harms unstudied, and this is even a mainstream view. They can't even get most doctors to take the stuff. The terms of the report in the Mail are particularly repulsive. If governments want to inject people routinely with toxic substances they ought to enter into civilized discourse, they should not hype absurdly the dangers of flu or the efffectiveness of the product, and perhaps they ought to make up their mind what is in it.

The we have Dr Ellie Cannon:

"'Some flu vaccines contain thimerosal preservative', she revealed. The non-toxic compound related to mercury passes harmlessly through the body."

"Thimerosal, which is present in other vaccines to stop bacterial and fungal growth, isn't found in the flu jab, Mr Pebody said.

"The World Health Organization states there to be 'no evidence' to even suggest that the compound poses any kind of health risk."

So, there you have it, the WHO which recently appointed Robert Mugabe as its good will ambassador. The claim is based on the dodgy Pichichero study.

http://www.ageofautism.com/2016/11/not-all-mercury-is-toxic-but-dr-heidi-larson-is-as-she-endorses-mercury-in-vaccines.html

Eindecker

Well Jenny please just read what the document from John's NICE link says, it details individually pre-filled syringes sold either singly or as in units of 10 (ie a pack of 10 syringes),:
Above each vaccine there is a statement indicating the volume of the single use vaccines, eg 0.5ml pre-filled syringes the larger pack is not a single pre-filled syringe for vaccinating 10 people!!! Just think about the cross contamination that could lead to.
John your NICE link is interesting because it's my understanding that the SPC (Specific Product Characteristics) document is part of the package of information submitted to the authorities and gives full disclosure of active components trace components etc. I’ve looked through the SMC’s for the various flu vaccines licensed for sale in the UK and can find no mention of thiomersal, it only appears on the NICE link you provided. But even taking the US limit for trace amounts of UP TO 0.3 ug/dose that is still c 1% of the previous thiomersal dose, but I’m not convinced that the general NICE statement is correct when compared to the SPCs of each document, which undoubtedly is where NICE got their information from.

Angus Files

Looks like Mr Calvin Harris was right as his song says Blame it on me..

Blame
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ACl8s_tBzE

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Jenny Allan

@Eindecker "There are currently NO multi-dose flu vaccine presentations licensed for use in the UK, the flu vaccines are all single use pre-filled syringes, sorry but what bit of that isn't clear? "

Well NO -not clear at all. John's link tells us several 2017 NHS injectable influenza vaccines are available in 2 formats, single dose vials containing nil preservatives and 10 dose vials, containing Thiomersal. I am assuming the NHS is recommending the single dose vials, but unless the multi dose flu vaccines, in use in the UK as recently as a few months ago, have had a previously awarded UK licence withdrawn (most unlikely), then these vaccines could still be administered to adults in medical centres.

John Stone

So, this is another authoritative source referring to 2017 products and look what it says:

https://bnfc.nice.org.uk/medicinal-forms/influenza-vaccine.html

Suspension for injection All products

Excipients

May contain

Gentamicin, kanamycin, neomycin penicillins, polymyxin b, thiomersal

John Stone

Eindecker

Thanks. I haven't btw said there are multidose vials this year, but they seem to have been around until very recently - and plenty of people dispensing them and assuring everyone they were safe. Of course, you just think everyone is stupid for caring, or for failing to trust the very same agencies which declared them to be safe.

Eindecker

John search on "Influenza vaccine", not vaccineS, I've just generated a list of 12 products with SPC information that will list trace components

What is the eMC?

The electronic Medicines Compendium (eMC) contains up to date, easily accessible information about medicines licensed for use in the UK. The eMC has more than 10,600 documents, all of which have been checked and approved by either the UK or European government agencies which license medicines. These agencies are the UK Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) and the European Medicines Agency (EMA).

The eMC was launched in 1999 and has become an established website, trusted for reliable information about medicines. The eMC is free to use and you don't have to register any personal details.

Eindecker

Jenny: John, Jenny Noel et al Please look at the UK EMC* which lists all medicines, including vaccines, licensed for us in the UK There are currently NO multi-dose flu vaccine presentations licensed for use in the UK, the flu vaccines are all single use pre-filled syringes, sorry but what bit of that isn't clear? Have you searched the EMC website?
I "invaded" this thread to correct to wild speculation & try and give you the actual situation

John Stone

Eindecker

Oddly enough I have just put "vaccines" into the search and still came up with only four vaccines - remarkably the same four. But even if it came up with loads of products I still wouldn't know whether they were the only ones.

Jenny Allan

Eindeker - "As Noel & I have both pointed out thiomersal is used in multi dose formulations to prevent possible microbial growth resulting from contamination introduced by the repeated use of one vial."

You are preaching to the converted. Both John and myself acknowledge the UK Government health departments are intending to administer all injected flu vaccines from single dose vials during 2017-18. What we would both like to know, and cannot find out, is whether or not the NHS managers have permission to use multi-dose vials in certain circumstances, i.e. larger demand than anticipated for vaccinations, or for prevention of a predicted flu epidemic, (as happened with the H1N1 flu vaccine).

If you have some inside information on this, we would be delighted for you to share it. Otherwise, why bother to invade this thread at all? At least you are not defending the use of Thiomersal in vaccines. That's refreshing.

John Stone

Eindecker

I didn't say it was not a correct statement I said it was not a straightforward one.

Eindecker

John, my fault "vaccines" gives just 4 products, "vaccine" as search item gives the full list
If your search came up with a longer list we would still not know for sure whether it was all the products. You may not want to take my word John but this is the reference list for all licensed prescription medicines in the UK, ie it doesn't include stuff you and I can buy over the counter at Boots etc.
""None of the influenza vaccines for the 2017/18 season contain thiomersal as an added preservative" is a totally correct statement, you can search through the SPC's where they also list materials that may be there in trace amounts remaining from manufacturing

Cia you need to consider the Quantity as well as the Concentration, drinking just 1 litre of water at the 2ppb Hg limit means I could ingest 2ug, which is 6 times the maximal permissible limit as a trace amount in (0.3ug), it doesn't actually mean there is 0.3ug present in vaccinews

John Stone

Eindecker

I just made a search using the term "influenza vaccines" as you suggested and came up with just four products - we know there are many more so the search did not come up with a complete list (presently I know of about thirteen) and it does not answer the question. If your search came up with a longer list we would still not know for sure whether it was all the products.

I am sure you agree with me that the DH/PHE/NHS England statement ""None of the influenza vaccines for the 2017/18 season contain thiomersal as an added preservative" does not preclude its presence.

Eindecker

John, Jenny Noel et al Please look at the UK EMC* which lists all medicines, including vaccines, licensed for us in the UK https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/search
Search on "influenza Vaccine" and look at the SPC details for each, you'll see they are all pre-filled, single dose vaccines can we put this wild speculation to bed once & for all, there is no thiomersal used as a preservative in UK seasonal flu vaccines, nor for the sake of Angus are there any other preservatives used. As Noel & I have both pointed out thiomersal is used in multi dose formulations to prevent possible microbial growth resulting from contamination introduced by the repeated use of one vial.

*EMC Up to date, approved and regulated prescribing information for (UK) licensed medicines – Summaries of Product Characteristics (SPCs) and Patient Information Leaflets (PILs)

John Stone

Jenny

I think we can assume that if the multi-dose vaccines are out there, they have thiomersal. The question is whether they are out there.

Jenny Allan

"I am trying to find out whether the UK is using any multi-dose vials."

Me too John and I am coming up against an internet block when asking for specific ingredients in
multi-dose flu vaccines for use in the UK, although there's plenty of info about multi-dose flu vaccines used in the US, 'southern hemisphere' and third world. Virtually all of these contain full on Thiomersal ethyl mercury compound, which is 50% mercury by molecular weight. I am sure that Noel Thomas is correct to surmise virtually all multi-dose flu vaccines contain Thiomersal, including any which are used in the UK, although I do believe the NHS is at least attempting to use single dose injections, with no added mercury, for their 2017-18 flu prevention programme, for persons 65+ and those with chronic health conditions.

Having sat in a GP waiting room crowded with fellow oldies all waiting for their turn to be jabbed by a harassed member of staff, I do wonder whether the single dose flu vaccines will turn out to be completely impractical. If large numbers of persons are getting jabbed at the same time, the multi dose vials are both quicker and cheaper. Reading between the lines of all these 'official' UK health vaccine information sites, they are definitely keeping their options open on Thiomersal. Why else would they go to such lengths to defend this dangerous compound, if they are truly committed to eliminating it in vaccines?

I am particularly disgusted with the comments of Mail Doctor Ellie Cannon who seems to be trying to hoodwink readers with claims that Thiomersal mercury compound is 'non toxic' and only 'related' to mercury. This woman is a qualified doctor and a GP who has taken the Hippocratic Oath. First do no harm? Shame on you Dr Ellie. Richard Pebody, acting head of respiratory disease at Public Health England, with his claim there is no 'metal mercury' in vaccines seems to be implying this stuff only exists in those little blobs we used to play with in our 1950s and 60s school science classes. Shame on him too!

It also appears to be the case that manufacturers are still disgracefully using mercury in vaccine manufacturing processes; inevitably any filtering process still leaves dangerous residues

John Stone

Noel Thomas

I am trying to find out whether the UK is using any multi-dose vials. You are almost certainly correct that if we are then they will contain thiomersal in quantities.

Noel Thomas

The CDC website appears to confirm that thimerosal is in the influenza MULTI DOSE vaccine vials. The official rationale is to protect against infection risk when up to 15 doses are taken from the same vial, for different people. If I remember correctly, a well known US paediatric vaccine sceptic has explained that private clinics might prefer the multi dose vial, as individual flu jabs cost the clinic 25 cents less when taken from a multi dose vial, than from individual single dose vials.
The multi dose vials may not be available in the UK ?
The same paediatrician pointed out that US advice to pregnant women not to eat tuna makes not a lot of sense if they are also given flu vaccine from a multi dose vial. They would need to eat many tuna to get as much mercury in their blood as the vaccine would provide.

Barry

• 2 ppb mercury is the mandated limit in drinking water
• 200 ppb mercury in liquid waste renders it a toxic hazard
• 25,000 ppb is found in infant flu shots

**********

Are we're actually thinking that there's no mercury in UK flu shots, because the monsters capable of carrying out the above.... have decided not to list it as an ingredient anymore?

As a reminder, the reason we are parents of vaccines disabled children, is that we trusted these people in the past.

Have we really learned nothing?

Angus Files

Agree with all that. I cant find them admitting to Thimerosal/sol in the manufacturing apart from them using Formaldehyde instead which was disclosed in another flu vaccine not the UK brand flu .They were using the same repeat after me language - no Thimerosal/sol was used in the making of this vaccine! along the lines of no animals were killed in the making of this film -aye right!...

As John says and my understanding of it all , it does matter`s how ever small they try to dilute the amount of mercury in vaccines as there is no safe dose of a substance that is a known brain/organ cumulative neuro toxin.

We all know the body works on nano molecular hence the allergic reactions to the 0.01mg of egg in the vaccines..The same is for Pork but they say they have removed the DNA of the Pork from the pork so were meant to suck it up that it isnt pork, aye right again!

1 micro gram = 1000 nano gram x 25 micro gram's of mercury in American flu shots =25000 nano grams.
Keep in mind one nano gram will put the right person into anaphylactic shock. -

Angus

John Stone

Cia

Thanks - I just found your comment.

John Stone

One interpretation of the comment is that the health officials just don't know and are covering themselves - none of the present product descriptions I have read state that thimerosal/thiomersal was used in the manufacturing process but the 1 microgram of mercury from a decade ago from the document found by Angus is not a negligible amount. And as we know 25 micrograms has been routinely given, and still is in the US. That British health officials could be sensitive about this certainly casts a big shadow over previous vaccine policy. Mercury was only reluctantly removed from the infant schedule: it was more than 5 years after the controversy blew up in the US that it was phased out in 2004.

Another point is that mercury at 25 micrograms still seems to be present in multi-dose vials but these do not seem to be presently in use in the UK.

Angus Files

In 2007-2008 they certainly used it as you say John -very strange what they are doing now in the manufacturing. I cant find anything apart from formaldehyde that they might be using but just a guess..

"Thimerosal is used at the early stages of manufacture and is removed by subsequent purification steps to a trace amount (≤1 mcg mercury per dose). "

file:///C:/Users/Ideapad/Downloads/influenza-fluarix-GSK-2007-2008-US-Version.pdf

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John Stone

Well, this appears to be the bottom line. There is a letter 20 March 2017 signed by representatives of the UK Department of Health, Public Health England, NHS England (Dame Sally C Davies, Prof Paul Cosford and Prof Sir Bruce Keogh). On pages 24-6 there is a list of products with one or two additions to those I linked to. Underneath is the statement p. 26:

"None of the influenza vaccines for the 2017/18 season contain thiomersal as an added preservative"

The odd wording suggests the possibility that thiomersal may have been used in the preparation of some of the products, perhaps as a sterilising agent, and therefore could be present at trace levels.

Angus Files

And remember Piers Morgan and his flu shot couldn't happen to a nicer person ..had yours this year Piers?

Flu Vaccine Exposed - Piers Morgan Struck Down - Breaking News Provides Evidence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwAlNIINpd4

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Angus Files

Shoot why not..they forgot to mention whilst they were on the subject matter slaughtering Calvin- the pork and egg vegans, people with egg allergies,Muslims et-al look out! as below..

You`ll see the HINI "like strain" whats that dont they know?

Hong Kong flu "like strain" but were in the UK?

A definite attack on you brain and your immune system..

What Fluenz Tetra contains
The active substances are:
Reassortant influenza virus* (live attenuated) of the following four strains**:
A/Michigan/45/2015 (H1N1)pdm09 - like strain
(A/Slovenia/2903/2015, MEDI 255962) 107.0±0.5 FFU***
A/Hong Kong/4801/2014 (H3N2) - like strain
(A/New Caledonia/71/2014, MEDI 263122) 107.0±0.5 FFU***
B/Brisbane/60/2008 - like strain
(B/Brisbane/60/2008, MEDI 228030) 107.0±0.5 FFU***
B/Phuket/3073/2013 - like strain
(B/Phuket/3073/2013, MEDI 254977) 107.0±0.5 FFU***.....
per 0.2 ml dose
* propagated in fertilised hens' eggs from healthy chicken flocks.
** produced in VERO cells by reverse genetic technology. This product contains genetically modified organisms (GMOs).
*** fluorescent focus units
This vaccine complies with the WHO recommendations (World Health Organisation) and EU decision for the 2017/2018 season.
The other ingredients are sucrose, dibasic potassium phosphate, monobasic potassium phosphate, gelatin (porcine, Type A), arginine hydrochloride, monosodium glutamate

https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/29109

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cherry Misra

Addenda : Dr. Chopher Shade, PhD, well known mercury toxicologist states that he considers ethylmercury ( the one in Thimerosal) to be the "most dangerous of the forms of mercury" because it crosses the blood brain barrier easily and quickly breaks down ,in the brain, into more toxic forms of mercury . Some parents of autistic children might need little persuasion to believe that Dr. Shade is speaking the truth.

Jeannette Bishop

I would be (and am) in agreement that we should aim for such accuracy, but I'd always have to add some convoluted caveat ...

... recalling Dr. Humphries VAXXED TV lecture on AAHS and how Merck is relabelling their aluminum vaccine components years later in more than one part of the world ... and with the whole concept of proprietary components that we don't need to know about in vaccines ... the FDA notifying Merck they are coming for a "surprise raid" to see if they are falsifying mumps efficacy data as charged ... and didn't Merck reformulate the MMR at least twice without heralding it? ... the Italian research finding various contaminants ... rotavirus vaccines found to be contaminated with several times more porcine circo viral materials than rotavirus (are they still?) and the vaccines were not recalled ... the potential for whole HPV viral DNA (not just the VLPs that are supposed to be there) to be trapped in Merck's special aluminum compound (crickets on that) ... various vaccine components made in various countries locations, like the vaccine components for human vaccine production that happened to be contaminated with bird flu virus and only discovered because researchers used the stuff on ferrets that were then killed by the bird flu ... glyphosate found in many vaccines by independent groups and the FDA announcements they are halting testing for glyphosate about the same time ...

it seems like the only way to be certain of what you are getting or not getting in a vaccine is to have the omniscience of God (at least in regards to this endeavor) and something closer to His level of resources than most of us have and test it for oneself ...

cia parker

Vaccine manufacturers don't have to list things which are only present in "trace amounts," and most killed virus vaccines still have trace amounts of mercury which were used in the manufacturing process, but all the mercury possible was filtered out, leaving only trace amounts. I think Harris is correct in assessing even the most infinitesimal amount of mercury in vaccines as dangerous.

"So how much does “trace” mean? According to the CDC, it says less than or equal to 0.3mcg per dose. Sailhome.org does a nice job of putting this into perspective:
• 2 ppb mercury is the mandated limit in drinking water
• 200 ppb mercury in liquid waste renders it a toxic hazard
• 25,000 ppb is found in infant flu shots
• 50,000 ppb is found in regular flu shots — recommended for children, pregnant women, the elderly…
Also the math on how many ppb in a “thimerosal free” vaccine:
0.3 mcg / 0.5mL =
0.3 mcg / .0005L =
…3,000 mcg / 5L =
600 mcg / L
1 mg/KG = 1 PPM (formal definition of PPM)
1 L = 1 KG (density of water or saline solution)
1 mcg/L = 1 PPB (because 1 KG and 1 L of water are equivalent)
THEREFORE:
600 mcg / L =
600 ppb Thimerosal in the “thimerosal-free” vaccine
Flu vaccine has “only” 25 mcg Thimerosal. The shot is 0.5mL. Let’s do some math:
25 mcg / 0.5mL =
25 mcg / .0005L =
250,000 mcg / 5L =
50,000 mcg / L
1 mcg / L = 1 ppb, therefore
The shot has 50,000 ppb of Thimerosal
Remember that 2 ppb mercury is the mandated limit in drinking water and normally 200 ppb would label something a toxic hazard."

http://vaxtruth.org/2011/08/vaccine-ingredients/

John Stone

Hi Jenny

Yes, I believe they list active ingredients in section 2 and excipients in 6.1 which is where thiomersal (British product name) should be listed if there.

To be clear I have a big history of flu vaccine scepticism but I want to see specific claims backed up when any misinformation can be used to chastise everyone critical of the vaccine lobby.

http://www.ageofautism.com/2017/09/revisiting-the-swine-flu-fiasco-of-2009.html

John Stone

Bob,

You can look at the EMC links for the products I was able to trace and the answer is there isn't. It is clear that none of the listed ingredient include mercury.

Someone

It is possible Dr Cannon is out of date and covering herself. Again, it is hard to find out which products are being given across the entire NHS, and I do not know for certain whether there could be others not on the EMC list I found. I am also not sure you would get a denial if it was there on any of the package inserts.

I am not seeking to endorse any products but in the absence of documentary evidence the claim about mercury is yet to be supported.

Jenny Allan

As one of those 65+ oldies nagged to get an annual flu jab, I am very suspicious of the UK 'health establishment's' responses to Calvin Harris, over mercury in vaccines. Over the years I have got quite proficient at deciphering those 'weasel words' put out by the health and pharmaceutical 'spin doctors'. Here's a few examples:-

The twitter exchange was initially between Harris and Daily Mail Doctor Ellie Cannon following a Mail article, criticising a celebrity who has decided not to allow her child to receive a nasal flu jab at school. Very sensible I would have thought, considering this jab has been suspended in the US for being ineffective. The vilification this mother received included the following quote from .......Dr Ellie Cannon:-
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4980764/Why-won-t-let-doctors-son-flu-vaccine.html

"Only last week I was embroiled in a Twitter spat with the musician Calvin Harris – with 12.5 million Twitter followers compared to my modest 15,000 – who alleged flu vaccines contain toxic mercury.
This is another misconception, driven by a misunderstanding of the science. Some flu vaccines contain thimerosal preservative, a non-toxic compound related to mercury that has been proven to harmlessly pass through the body. The children’s flu nasal spray we use today doesn’t contain it."

Ah yes Thiomersal (Thimerosal) is only RELATED to mercury and is a 'non toxic compound'. No need to tell Mail readers this stuff is 50% mercury by molecular weight and has killed several newborn babies when applied to their umbilical cords under the name Merthiolate, an antiseptic, or those persons in eastern Europe who ate seed potatoes dressed with the stuff to prevent mould. We don't know how many babies died from 'Pink's Disease' after this stuff was used in teething powders. It's a bit rich for Dr Ellie to blame people for 'misunderstanding the science'.

However, Dr Ellie is correct when she states nasal vaccines are mercury free. (Thank God for that!!)

The Express article about the Harris/ Cannon spat has some different comments:-

http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/869113/flu-jab-2017-calvin-harris-symptoms-vaccine-mercury
Flu jab 2017: Is Calvin Harris correct that the vaccine contains TOXIC metal?
From above:-
"Harris suggested that the virtues of the flu jab were a “conspiracy theory” and argued that the dangers were acknowledged in “several government medical papers”.
Richard Pebody, acting head of respiratory disease at Public Health England, said it was incorrect of Harris to claim that the flu jab contains potentially-harmful metals, explaining that it does not contain any of the metal mercury.
“All ingredients in the flu vaccine are safe,” he said.
“The main ingredient of any vaccine is the disease-causing virus, bacteria or toxin, but a number of other components are needed to make the final vaccine as safe and effective as possible.”

Ah yes - the flu jab does not contain any 'metal mercury'. I would like to ask Richard Peabody if any flu jabs contain the mercuric compound Thiomersal? - you know the compound Dr Ellie said was some kind of non toxic mercury 'relation'.

One for you John -and I confess I am still getting my head round this. The list of flu vaccines you enclose do not have lists of 'ingredients'; they have lists of 'excipients'.

https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/excipient
excipient
any more or less inert substance added to a drug to give suitable consistency or form to the drug; a vehicle.


bob moffit

"While it is difficult to find out exactly which products are being given I have just checked through the ingredients of ten products I was able to identify and none had mercury, thiomersal or thimerosal listed."

Unfortunately .. I am so cynical that I wouldn't put it past the vaccine industry to just change the name of ingredients "thiomersal or thimerosal" .. to something unrecognizable as being mercury.

I hope I am wrong .. but .. the cynic in me ..............

Someone

Interestingly, the doctor used in the article linked to above, Dr. Ellie Cannon, openly admits that some of the flu shots contain thimerosal, or thiomersal (as she calls it), but the statement that follows her quote is that thiomersal is non-toxic! "'Some flu vaccines contain thimerosal preservative", she revealed. The non-toxic compound related to mercury passes harmlessly through the body."

Then, the other "expert," Mr. Pebody said, "Thimerosal, which is present in other vaccines to stop bacterial and fungal growth, isn't found in the flu jab..."

Maybe Dr. Cannon is wrong, or maybe Mr. Pebody is. Good luck figuring out which person is correct, when they both cannot be right. I do remember reading a long time back that mercury was removed from all shots used in the European Union, as they demanded that the mercury be removed, even though the mercury is certainly used in vaccines everywhere else-- with pride and glee.

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