CDC: Denying Harmful Human Vaccine Consequences?
National Autism Association Asks You To Participate in Study on Autism & Wandering Danger

Holiday Small #B1Less Vaccines Education Miracles

Teachable-momentsBy Tim Welsh

I went to local car repair shop to get a flat tire fixed and get replacement tires. I asked the young receptionist if she had any children. She related she had three. Oh wow, I said I bet that's a handful. How old are they? She gave me the ages. I said Do you get overwhelmed but the number of vaccines they push? She said yes and the two year old was due.

I covered the Great Grandma got two shots Fully Vaccinated Grandma got Seven fully Vaccinated, you probably got about 7 and your son can expect to get 59 doses before school and 300+ in development. I told her the 3 second version of Tanner's regression after vaccines. Just then my spare tire was on, my phone rang her phone rang, paid bill and my phone rang again. I did not get to finish the moment.

I drove all the way home and realized I did not have my phone cover. I was sure I left it on the waiting room table in all the commotion. I drove back and looked around, it was not there.

I said to the receptionist, Did you see my phone cover. she said no. I said I guess I am supposed to finish my story. Think S.H.O.T.S Single Better Heavier Better Older Better Never with Tylenol Never when Sick. She grabbed a note book asked me to repeat and explain each. She took notes and told me Thank You Tim.

Today I may have saved a child. It is a feeling better than Coffee. Try it and Tell me your #B1Less Small miracle so I can share and save more babies. 

Tim Welsh is Contributing Editor to Age of Autism.  He is active on Social Media as @TannersDad.

Comments

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ATSC

Just checking the links because they shouldn't appear that long and Wayback says it doesn't have those pages archived.

Try copying the first part of the addresses up to htm, highlighted in blue when hovered over, and paste into address bar. That works for me.

ATSC

Hans,

Yes, the CDC has always greatly exaggerated the number of cases of disease - and deaths, especially before the launch of a new vaccine.

Take the US statistics for Chickenpox for 1995 and 1996, and the vaccine was licensed in March 1995.

https://web.archive.org/web/19991127195018/https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/chicken.htm">https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/chicken.htm">https://web.archive.org/web/19991127195018/https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/chicken.htm

"Number of Cases Annually: 120,624 (1995) " and yet the CDC claimed at the time that "approximately 4 million cases occur in the United States each year":


https://web.archive.org/web/20010802160428/https://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/srp/varicella.htm#chickenpox">https://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/srp/varicella.htm#chickenpox">https://web.archive.org/web/20010802160428/https://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/srp/varicella.htm#chickenpox

Hans Litten

"many people DO die from flu every year"

No they don't Cia .That is more lies , more spin .

https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2016/12/05/my-interview-with-former-cbs-star-reporter-fake-news/

I’ll add a few details. It was routine for doctors all over America to send blood samples from patients they’d diagnosed with Swine Flu, or the “most likely” Swine Flu patients, to labs for testing. And overwhelmingly, those samples were coming back with the result: not Swine Flu, not any kind of flu.

That was the big secret. That’s what the CDC was hiding. That’s why they stopped reporting Swine Flu case numbers. That’s what Attkisson had discovered. That’s why she was shut down.
But it gets even worse.

Because about three weeks after Attkisson’s findings were published on the CBS News website, the CDC, obviously in a panic, decided to double down. If one lie is exposed, tell an even bigger one. A much bigger one.
Here, from a November 12, 2009, WebMD article is the CDC’s response: “Shockingly, 14 million to 34 million U.S. residents — the CDC’s best guess is 22 million — came down with H1N1 swine flu by Oct. 17 [2009].” (“22 million cases of Swine Flu in US,” by Daniel J. DeNoon).

Are your eyeballs popping? They should be.
In the summer of 2009, the CDC secretly stops counting Swine Flu cases in America, because the overwhelming percentage of lab tests from likely Swine Flu patients shows no sign of Swine Flu or any other kind of flu.
There is no Swine Flu epidemic.
Then, the CDC estimates there are 22 MILLION cases of Swine Flu in the US.
So…the premise that the CDC would never lie about important matters like, oh, a vaccine increasing the risk of autism…you can lay that one to rest.
The CDC will lie about anything it wants to. It will boldly go where no person interested in real science will go.

ATSC

Cia,

I don't think we have to reach as far back as 150 years ago. When you were searching through your family tree did you find any of your relatives born from 1900 onwards who died from diseases for which there are vaccines today? And how many of them managed to live well into their 70s, 80s and 90s without vaccines to protect them?

My understanding of the tetanus bacteria is that it is ubiquitous and anaerobic so if deep wounds are opened up and allowed to bleed the bacteria can't survive. Rose thorns and rusty nails have a reputation for being dangerous because they inject the bacteria deep into the skin. There might be some vaccine critics who say the tetanus vaccine works but I've never met any, and with a better understanding of tetanus over time and more attention to wound-care, how would we know?

Tetanus was indeed the last vaccine that Dr Mendelsohn abandoned, he said, "The tetanus vaccine over the decades has been progressively weakened in order to reduce the considerable reaction (fever and swelling) it used to cause. Accompanying this reduction in reactivity has been a concomitant reduction in antigenicity (the ability to confer protection). Therefore, there is a good chance that today’s tetanus vaccine is about as effective as tap water." (The People’s Doctor Newsletter 1976-1988) https://whale.to/v/mend.html

I have no doubt that diphtheria killed children, but what treatment was available back then? Dr Menelsohn says on p 244 of How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor (1984) "There is ample evidence that the incidence of diphtheria was already diminishing before a vaccine became available" and on p 245, " Today your child has about as much chance of contracting diphtheria as he does of being bitten by a cobra".

I'm sorry about your roommate's paralysis but unless laboratory testing to detect poliovirus was carried out at the time of her infection, how would anyone know if her paralysis was associated with/caused by one of the polioviruses?


"The question is whether the person will be disabled or killed by a vaccine-preventable disease."

I think there's enough to worry about in life without worrying about diseases that may never happen, and, unlike a vaccine-reaction that can leave a child disabled for life, when disease strikes medical professionals immediately recognise that the child is sick and something can usually be done.

I don't spend my life worrying about germs and disease, I do constantly worry about my vaccine-injured son's future - and every time he goes out unaccompanied. People are not generally kind to the disabled, and some take advantage of them.

"Nutritional status matters, but many well-nourished people have always died in outbreaks of contagious disease. "

How do we know this? Vitamin A was not routinely administered in developed countries to treat measles because doctors assumed that children in these countries wouldn't be deficient. Children might look healthy on the outside but they could be lacking in many nutrients, especially when fed a fast-food, sugar-laden, junk diet.

 ciaparker

Hans,

I have always said that no one should get the pertussis, measles, mumps, or chickenpox vaccines. You seem to be accusing me of supporting them, when I have always been against them. You are painting me with too broad a brush. I agree that urban people are at low risk of tetanus, and they should make their own reasoned decision about whether or not to get the vaccine. A number of people have gotten tetanus from manure used on their gardens if it had not been sterilized. Some have gotten tetanus from splinters or rose thorns. None of this is meant to encourage people to get the vaccine, just facts to consider.

And I don't care whether or not people get Prevnar for their babies. I understand that there are many strains of pneumococcal meningitis not included in the vaccine. But it's also true that the strains that are included have killed many babies, and getting the vaccine would in most cases keep those who otherwise would have gotten one of them and died from it from dying. Also true that the vaccine presents serious risks which should be considered.

I have consistently said that the flu and pertussis vaccines are very ineffective, as well as dangerous, and in my opinion not worth getting. But it always has to go back to personal choice: many people DO die from flu every year, and in some cases they probably would not have died if they had gotten the vaccine. It's not my life, so really not my call to make. My father was paralyzed for the last three years of his life by a flu vaccine, and I have never gotten it nor ever will. But if others have researched it and want to take the risk of the vaccine over the risk of flu, that's fine, they should continue to be able to do it.

The entire vaccine schedule is not a fraud. While every vaccine is dangerous and has caused death or disability, most of the vaccines usually work, and prevent death or disability from the diseases. I totally agree that the pharma industry lies a lot and is manipulative, coercive, and criminal. It still doesn't mean that all of the vaccines are ineffective or that there is no VPD which could kill or injure now.

The vaccines are for childhood diseases which are usually relatively mild and beneficial (though not always, and some people continue to die from them), or for rare, dangerous diseases which are no longer common, but that's because nearly everyone has gotten the vaccines for them: tetanus, polio, diphtheria, and meningitis. And I really don't care if parents choose to get any of these vaccines for their children or themselves, or if they choose to refuse them. It's their lives that are in the balance, not mine. But I want them to know as many of the known facts about both the diseases and the vaccines as possible. They HAVE to know that vaccines at this time often cause autism, seizures, and autoimmune disease. And then decide. Yes, chickenpox is usually a mild disease which confers lifetime immunity. I refused the varicella shot for my daughter, and was glad that she caught chickenpox from me when I had shingles when she was nearly two (because I had had chickenpox at seven and now have the virus latent for life). I have shingles now again, and it is very debilitating. But I'd still rather get shingles than vaccine reactions. Some people die of shingles, and I had a friend who had severe pain for over a year from shingles, so when my friend later asked me if I recommended she get the shingles vaccine, I sent her information on severe reactions, even heart attacks, caused by the vaccine, but said she'd have to make up her own mind as to whether or not to get the vaccine. Before the vaccine, there were a hundred deaths a year from chickenpox, fifty in children and fifty in adults. Chickenpox, like all of them, is usually a mild disease, but not always.

Hans Litten

Cia : (Diphtheria and Tetanus DTaP Toxoids and Acellular Pertussis Vaccine Adsorbed Tripedia®)

https://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM101580.pdf

And on page 11 of this government document we find the following :

"Adverse events reported during post-approval use of Tripedia vaccine include idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, SIDS, anaphylactic reaction, cellulitis, autism, convulsion/grand mal convulsion, encephalopathy, hypotonia, neuropathy, somnolence and apnea."

Hans Litten

ciaparker | December 14, 2016 at 09:20 PM

Really ? Please -

Prevnar 13 protects against the 13 most rare pnemococyl varieties , there are about 90 in total .
I understand 1600 children were maimed in Belgium by Prevnar13 .

Prevnar13 is just another fraud ! Just like all the rest .
Mump vaccine is a fraud , just totally invalidating the MMR
The Flu vaccine is a complete fraud (efficacy 0.5% Cochrane)
Gardasil is a complete fraud (it just might protect against the precursors to Cervical cancer if you are lucky) .
Tetanus vaccine is not necessary for anyone living in a Urban environment (Hydrogen Peroxide is better if you are really concerned - Russell Blaylock) .
The Pertussis vaccine was withdrawn in Scandanavia (it doesn't work !)
So the DPT triple vaccine is invalidated .
The varicella vaccine is not required . Bin it . CP is a mild affliction , gone in a week .Lifelong immunity conferred .
The BCG vaccine that we all got growing up for TB - doesn't work it turns out .

The whole vaccine schedule is an entire fraud .

But what vaccines really do is cause Autism , cancer, diabetes , MS , they sterilise people HCG(depopulation) , SIDs , death , paralysis , guillame barre , alzheimers , als , ME .

Hera

Hi Cia,
Sorry I did not get back to you before now. I did check with someone else who was also a nurse in hospitals in the 80's ( my mom) and she did not remember HiB infections as being a huge issue either, though she wasn't working paediatrics . Nurses at that time ( probably still today) definitely would tell each other about sad or worrying cases, or deaths.

Interesting: her memories of serious illnesses that stood out in the 80's focused mainly on caring for multiple cases of paralysis in adults; polyneuropathy and/or Guillian Barre diagnosed patients, in some cases needing ventilator support.

In answer to your question could kids being treated with IV antibiotics have actually had HIB? Possibly I suppose; it was along time ago.

Out of interest, I did check the manufacturers inserts on HIB vaccines; it appears that side effects of some of the HIB vaccines can include both guillian barre and apnea, as well as seizures.
So a cost benefit approach comparing damage from disease, versus damage from vaccine, would have to include this also.
The idea of a baby stopping breathing ( apnea) could be very serious and also result in either death or brain damage. Having read about this as a reaction, I wonder how many SIDS cases ( the baby suddenly stopped breathing) are actually linked to HIB vaccination? I seem to remember that SIDS tends to cluster at around the age of 2 to 4 months?
For the HIB vaccine , first dose is normally given at 2 months, and second dose at 4 months.

ttps://www.gsksource.com/pharma/content/dam/GlaxoSmithKline/US/en/Prescribing_Information/Hiberix/pdf/HIBERIX.PDF

David Burd; I am very glad you found that article interesting.


 ciaparker

rtp,

No, children STOPPED dying and being disabled by Hib disease. But what happened was that pneumococcal meningitis germs multiplied and filled the gap left by taking out the Hib germs. Then Prevnar took those out, and I had read that meningococcal meningitis germs were spreading to fill that gap, but I haven't heard of a lot of meningococcal disease in children, or an increase of it, so maybe that was just speculation. It's certainly worth discussing these questions, but always remembering that the dangers from diseases like meningitis are real. Most people get subclinical cases and immunity: I apparently did, but others get the disease and die or are disabled by them. There is no perfect solution (unless maybe homeopathic nosodes).

I just want parents to be informed before they make a decision. I think if people stopped getting nearly all of the recommended vaccines, vaccine injury wouldn't stop, but it might recede to '60s levels, very low. And if they don't want any of them, that's fine too, but I don't want them to do so thinking that there's no danger presented by the VPDs.

 ciaparker

ATSC,

Dr. Mendelsohn also said that tetanus protection from the vaccine lasts at least forty years, longer than the ten they say. He said that all servicemen in WWII got the tetanus vaccine, and even in the early '80s when he was writing, that none of them had ever gotten tetanus. Most sources, even vaccine critics, say that the vaccine works to prevent tetanus, and it's one that people should seriously consider.

Of course vaccine-injury is avoidable by getting no vaccines. The question is whether the person will be disabled or killed by a vaccine-preventable disease. I have mentioned that my father got malaria at twelve in Louisiana (never a vaccine for it) and saw a man die of tetanus. And that my mother got tearful all her life when she remembered a neighbor child who died of diphtheria. And that I had a roommate Tina who had been permanently crippled by polio.

You probably have a lot of relatives who died of contagious disease, but there may be no surviving record of them. My maternal grandmother's father was Augustus Jordan Brooks, from Tazewell, Virginia, originally, later went to Lake Travis, Texas. His father had died at a Yankee prisoner of war camp in Barbour, West Virginia, in 1863. He had left his wife, Sallie Ferguson Brooks, and eight children back on his farm. That same year, 1863, Sallie and four of her children all died of spinal meningitis. Sarah Jane, Augustus Jordan, Rufus Frank, and Fidelia survived. William James (1848-1863), Margaret Cordelia (1852-1863), Alice (1857-1863), and Arabella (1860-1863) all died horribly, in terror and great pain. I tracked down the four surviving children on Ancestry.com, wondering what had happened to them after losing both parents and half their siblings in one year. And in the census records for 1870 I found them all, four different neighboring farms had taken them in. But what a tragedy.

There was no secret to some people's surviving and some dying of contagious disease. Nutritional status matters, but many well-nourished people have always died in outbreaks of contagious disease. Again, I don't think at this time many people would die or be disabled even if everyone stopped vaxxing. Relatively speaking. I am also vaccine-damaged and disabled with MS. My daughter is vaccine-damaged and disabled with autism. But I can't disregard those killed by the diseases. But it is IMPERATIVE that everyone realize that we are always talking about averages and the majority. If no one got the measles vaccine, most people would be healthier for just getting measles, but some would be disabled and some would die of it. If no one got the Hib vaccine, I think Hib disease would come back. There's no reason why it wouldn't. We're sicker than we were in the '80s, not healthier. And some children would be disabled or die of it. ALSO true that the vaccines often disable or even kill.

ATSC

Hans,

Thanks for the list of documentaries. There are a few here that I haven't seen before.

https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/23-must-see-vaccine-documentaries-watch-share/

ATSC

Cia,

"There have been many children injured or killed by both the diseases and the vaccines. All of them should be protected to the greatest degree possible."

Vaccine-caused injury and death is completely avoidable. I think we need to find out what has been protecting the unvaccinated who lived until they were elderly. When I look at our family tree dating back to the mid-1800s, no one died from an infectious disease. Without vaccines to protect them, how did they survive all these disease-causing germs?

"There's nothing magical about two-year olds, and certainly no one is immune at any age from devastating vaccine reactions. But as Tim said, Better heavier, older, single, no Tylenol. There are a lot fewer severe reactions the older the child is. "


My son was vaccine-injured at the age of two so regardless of whether there are fewer reactions in older children and adults, vaccination at any age can be dangerous.


"Children two years old are running around and more likely to get a tetanus-prone wound. But certainly a violent vaccine reaction is always possible. But you need to weigh it against the risk of tetanus."

Tetanus was one of the diseases that I was concerned about when our unvaccinated son worked with horses for five years, but by then I had read that tetanus is not an immunising disease so I don't think that the tetanus vaccine would have protected him, and it was the last vaccine that Dr Robert Mendelsohn rejected. Hib is also not an immunising disease.

They're now looking to create a new vaccine for Hia, then, presumably, Hic, d, e, f, g.......z. I don't think it's wise to try to wipe out bacteria that normally does nothing because others will take their place. It would be far better for scientists to actually discover what causes invasive disease in the few instead of vaccinating the healthy and well-nourished who are not at risk with vaccines that are in themselves dangerous.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24268829/
Lancet Infect Dis. 2014 Jan;14(1):70-82. doi: 10.1016/S1473-3099(13)70170-1. Epub 2013 Nov 20.
Haemophilus influenzae serotype a as a cause of serious invasive infections

"Since the introduction of Hib conjugate vaccines in the 1990s, the epidemiology of invasive H influenzae disease has changed substantially, with most infections now caused by non-Hib strains. We discuss the importance of H influenzae serotype a (Hia) as a cause of serious morbidity and mortality and its global epidemiology, clinical presentation, microbiology, immunology, prevention, and control. Much like Hib, the capsule of Hia is an important virulence factor contributing to the development of invasive disease. Molecular typing of Hia has identified distinct clonal groups, with some linked to severe disease and high case-fatality rates." PMID: 24268829

And looking at the first column of the article you posted, it says, ,"In addition to the considerable mortality associated with it, Hib meningitis is a major threat to those children who survive the disease. They present with a high incidence of permanent neurologic sequelae, which range from subtle learning and social adjustment deficits to hearing loss, cerebral palsy and mental retardation. These sequelae are detected in at least 20 to 45% of survivors. however, the incidence may be considerably higher; new testing methods are uncovering previously unsuspected sequelae in children once considered to be normal ." and at the bottom of the page, "There is no question that many survivors of Hib meningitis suffer from long term neurologic sequelae that cause significant handicaps later in life".

Why aren't they doing this kind of testing on children who've had serious and severe vaccine reactions like my son instead of dismissing their symptoms of disease after vaccination, ignoring regression and blaming autism for their deficits?

rtp

"I just read one more interesting thing in Viera Scheibner's Vaccination, p. 125: "Hib is associated with most cases of meningitis, epiglottitis, cellulitis, septic arthritis, osteomyelitis, pericarditis, and pneumonia," published 1993. I didn't realize that it was MOST. I've never worked in a hospital, but is it possible that a lot of babies were treated for these conditions with antibiotics, and treated appropriately, but the term Hib disease may not always have been used? Or just put on the chart, but it didn't change the type of treatment at all, and wasn't mentioned much? "

This is what we have been trying to tell you Cia.

When the vaccine was introduced, Hib disease was blamed for around 90 per cent of pediatric meningitis cases.

Slightly less overall but still the vast majority. And, as you say, the majority of sepsis and pneumonia too.

So it goes without saying then that if the vaccine worked the way it was claimed to (ie 98 per cent reduction), we would have seen an almost complete elimination of pediatric meningitis (essentially 90 per cent reduction). But we didn't see anything like that level of reduction.

So that leaves us with the explanations I gave.

Either the vaccine is ineffective and meningitis was just blamed on other bacteria.

Or Hib was never actually the problem in the first place so eliminating the bacteria wouldn't prevent any cases of meningitis anyway.

Or, of course, both.

rtp

"Koch's postulates were not abandoned, yes they were modified in the light of the discovery of asymptomatic carriers of cholera"

Hahahahahaha!!! So abandoning a postulate altogether isn't the same as abandoning it.

Right.

"and more recent versions have been proposed using molecular techniques,"

So you admit the original one was irrelevant and wrong but you put it forward as proof of the germ theory anyway?

Why is it that you can't argue the case without being fundamentally dishonest eindecker? You might want to think about what that says about the coherence of your beliefs.

"but leave that to one side & let's return to what started this discussion ie H influenza meningitis, I posted the CSF of a patient with Haemophilus influenzae meningitis, see anything, oh yes pale Gram negative rods plus masses of white blood cells In a healthy individual CSF is free of bacteria, so what do you think that the presence of HI bacteria & WBCs in a CSF sample from a person with suspected meningitis indicates RTP? CSF is unlike blood where occasionally bacteria are shed into the blood stream, for example grinding your teeth."

Really?

Really?

So far you have accepted that the germ theory has zero logic and that Koch's postulates are meaningless and ever changing. So everything. Everything rests on this.

That there is absolutely zero chance of having any bacteria in healthy patients in the CSF.

So if that is wrong. Then everything you believe about this issue is a lie isn't it?

"Listeria monocytogenes meningitis (Niedman, 1980) in a significant minority of cases (about 20%) will present with a type C CSF. This peculiar gram-positive rod with characteristic "tumbling motility" exhibits a marked neurotropism. Up to 75% of cases of listeriosis in adults reported to the Centers for Disease Control in 1971 had meningitis. The organism has a propensity to afflict those at the extremes of life and immunosuppressed hosts, particularly renal transplant recipients. However, in the review cited, consisting of 94 cases, 30% occurred in apparently healthy individuals."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK398/#

Ruh roh.

"Care to define what “poisoning” & “infection” mean in this case."

Yes. Infection is with a pathogen that autonomously replicates. Poisoning is one that does not. Bacteria are the clean up - that is why they are there in sick tissue. An injection of someone with a vast amount of bacteria will be toxic but bacteria do not just invade us and start causing pathogenesis for no apparent reason.

If bacteria did anything other than eat destroyed tissue then we would regularly wake up with gangrene.


"Different organisms, of course you do realise you can’t literally see bacteria in a microscope of a patient with sepsis don’t you RTP? There’s maybe c10 bacteria/ml of blood but millions of red blood cells/ml so with blood samples it’s what grows on the petri dish: septicaemia has low numbers of bacteria / ml of blood"

I have no idea what the point of that is. If such detection is impossible with such small amounts then how can you have claimed it for CSF?

"But this is all made up nonsense to you isn’t it, but get back to my question of the seriously ill patient with pale Gram negative rods & 3+ WBC in the microscope slide of the CSF sample, what’s your interpretation of this observation RTP, and of course, hopefully the resolution by treating with appropriate antibiotics?"

Sorry? Does it work both ways?

If doctors who believe in the germ theory prescribe the wrong drugs, would that prove that the germ theory was a lie?

Actually, I remember reading a study that showed that knowledge of the particular bacteria supposedly responsible seems to have no bearing on the efficacy of the treatment.

And there is this https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15892486

Interesting. I am not saying I agree with the results, but the point is that it was a RDBCT and I dare say you don't accept that this proves that homeopathy is fundamentally sound.

"Of course in your world you'll have shut down the clinical microbiology laboratories and abandoned antibiotics 'cause the "germ theory" is all nonsense....."

Yep. And I dare say that without kids being poisoned by vaccines on a regular basis, the amount of sepsis would be greatly reduced.

rtp

"It takes one or both of two factors for someone to have a severe or fatal case of any disease. The disease may be extremely dangerous in itself, like rabies or Ebola, or it may be dangerous for relatively few of those that get it, like measles or chickenpox. In the second case it's the ineffectiveness of the patient's immune system that results in disability or death, either from being too weak or overreacting with too much inflammation"

Irrelevant. Doctors get bombarded with multiple types of pathogens. If they were weakened by one "minor virus" another virus would finish them off.

Like I said, if a doctor can handle, say, a dozen different pathogens per day, then the rest of us facing, say, one or two would be trivial.

If your mantra about some things are as safe or as dangerous as they need to be to keep the ridiculous paradigm going were true, then doctors would regularly be very sick and the rest of us completely untouched.

The point is that being a doctor would be an extremely dangerous job. Lifespans would be measured in weeks for those in that profession.

There are c100 trillion bacteria (and an order of magnitude more viruses) in our bodies at any one time.

If germs were one bazillionth as dangerous as we have been led to believe we would all be dead.

Doctor or no doctor.

But the problem of the germ theory is more stark when you consider doctor longevity because it doesn't require any knowledge of the number of microbes in our bodies.

david m burd

Hera, thanks for your reference describing Sanofi Pasteur vaccine vials being "delaminated" by the vaccine excipients therein. Let me see if I can make sense of this: The vaccine itself is so chemically active it 'delaminates' a glass vial --- AND such a toxic brew is injected into babies and infants!!??

Here is an excerpt from your reference:

"Sanofi's rush to understand the scope of its delamination problem began April 2, 2013, according to the electronic "Biological Product Deviation Report" the company submitted to the FDA in accordance with regulations. The report, sent to the FDA in June, said two vials of the ActHIB vaccine were "observed to contain clear, colorless particulates," and that those vials were associated with two distributed vaccine lots due to expire Sept. 5 and 6, 2014.

Delamination is caused by the separation of the various components that go into the making of glass, explained Arun Varshneya, a retired Alfred University professor of glass engineering science who is president of Saxon Glass Technologies in Alfred, N.Y. The high alkalinity of vaccines and other injectable drugs can cause some of the components to peel away from each other. Because this takes place over time, it might not be detected until after products are packaged and shipped.

After Sanofi became aware of the delamination, the Swiftwater plant examined vials that hadn't been distributed."

Thanks again for your reference --- .

 ciaparker

I just read one more interesting thing in Viera Scheibner's Vaccination, p. 125: "Hib is associated with most cases of meningitis, epiglottitis, cellulitis, septic arthritis, osteomyelitis, pericarditis, and pneumonia," published 1993. I didn't realize that it was MOST. I've never worked in a hospital, but is it possible that a lot of babies were treated for these conditions with antibiotics, and treated appropriately, but the term Hib disease may not always have been used? Or just put on the chart, but it didn't change the type of treatment at all, and wasn't mentioned much?

 ciaparker

Mortality was from 3-8%, maybe depending on the type of disease? I think meningitis was more deadly than the other kinds of Hib disease. At one in 350 with Hib meningitis, say it was 5% mortality, that would be one in 7000 children dying of Hib meningitis. Not a huge number, except that it would add up across the country with millions of children. And 25% emerging with a permanent disability. So that's one in 800 children in that age group with any kind of serious Hib disease, but it was most dangerous between six months and one year old, getting a permanent disability from Hib disease in the '80s. Including mental retardation and speech disabilities.

Why did it increase so much in incidence? The DPT? Antibiotics? Many factors related to increased pollution in the environment? 1987 was before the vaccine epidemic started. Breastfeeding would be the best way to prevent it, but wasn't foolproof. Sonja said the other day that she had two friends whose babies got Hib meningitis in the '80s, both breastfed, and both sustained some kind of permanent damage (if she was telling the truth). She was a nurse in the '80s, said she only treated one child for Hib meningitis, but if she was a nursery nurse, she may not have seen the older babies with it.

 ciaparker

Hera and Linda,

I just copied this paragraph from the Sell study, published in 1987, couldn't cut and paste it: "The estimated incidence of Hib meningitis has been steadily increasing for over 3 decades. Estimates have ranged from 8000 to 15,000 cases/year, with more than half of these occurring in infants under 1 year of age. Overall approximately 1 of every 350 children under the age of 5 years old develops the disease. Other severe systemic manifestations of Hib infection in children, including epiglottitis, pneumonia, septic arthritis, cellulitis, and pericarditis account for at least an additional 7500 cases a year. One of every 200 children in this age group requires treatment for serious Hib disease."

Yes! What a relief! I KNEW I had seen in a parenting magazine over fifteen years ago the figure one in 200 children in this age group got invasive Hib disease, it was one in 350 gets Hib meningitis, one in 200 any form of invasive Hib disease.

This Sell study seems to have been well regarded, she was an MD, apparently at Vanderbilt University.

 ciaparker

Hera,
I just looked for the Sell study, found it here, but only the first page if I don't buy it:
https://journals.lww.com/pidj/Citation/1987/08000/Haemophilus_influenzae_type_b_meningitis_.35.aspx

I'm going to look to see if I can find the full version somewhere else.

Barry

RTP your logic is totally irrefutable, suggest you apply for membership of the Flat Earth Society or possibly more relevant the honorable society of " We Can Prove it's Impossible for Bees to Fly"

********

So.... you believe that injecting poisons into babies, will somehow protect them disease.

And you think other people should join these societies???

I have a piece if advice for you; find someone sane, and ask them to check your meds.

 ciaparker

Hera,
I put up some of the sources for the information I had looked at in a comment here:
https://www.ageofautism.com/2016/11/vaccines-its-up-to-you.html

Please look at it and tell me what you think. I asked a doctor yesterday and he thought that what Dr. Thomas said about his hospital in the '80s always having some babies being treated for Hib disease, but none after the vaccine, was correct. He said that it wasn't in young babies (who were protected by their mothers' antibodies), but in those over eight months old. There was a study I referenced (haven't read it myself) done in the '80s which found that one in 350 babies got an invasive case of Hib disease at that time, all of them serious. I asked two of the medical shills about their experience, but haven't had time to look to see if they've replied. I'll go back and read my comment again now and look at what I quoted. I'd really like to know the truth of the matter.

Eindeker

RTP Koch's postulates were not abandoned, yes they were modified in the light of the discovery of asymptomatic carriers of cholera, and more recent versions have been proposed using molecular techniques, but leave that to one side & let's return to what started this discussion ie H influenza meningitis, I posted
the CSF of a patient with Haemophilus influenzae meningitis, see anything, oh yes pale Gram negative rods plus masses of white blood cells
In a healthy individual CSF is free of bacteria, so what do you think that the presence of HI bacteria & WBCs in a CSF sample from a person with suspected meningitis indicates RTP? CSF is unlike blood where occasionally bacteria are shed into the blood stream, for example grinding your teeth. Join the dots RTP: a seriously ill patient with clinical symptoms of bacterial meningitis, a Gram stain slide of the centrifuged precipitate of a CSF sample showing pale Gram negative rods and 3+ WBCs, appropriate antibiotic given, hopefully in time, and patient recovers, so what does that tell you RTP?
So what you are looking at when you see lots in a sick patient is poisoning as opposed to infection.
Care to define what “poisoning” & “infection” mean in this case. Different organisms, of course you do realise you can’t literally see bacteria in a microscope of a patient with sepsis don’t you RTP? There’s maybe c10 bacteria/ml of blood but millions of red blood cells/ml so with blood samples it’s what grows on the petri dish: septicaemia has low numbers of bacteria / ml of blood, the bacteria do not grow in the blood but they are shed from the primary locus of infection into the blood stream. The one exception is B anthracis, if I remember correctly, where the organism does multiply in the blood.
But this is all made up nonsense to you isn’t it, but get back to my question of the seriously ill patient with pale Gram negative rods & 3+ WBC in the microscope slide of the CSF sample, what’s your interpretation of this observation RTP, and of course, hopefully the resolution by treating with appropriate antibiotics?

Of course in your world you'll have shut down the clinical microbiology laboratories and abandoned antibiotics 'cause the "germ theory" is all nonsense.....

Hera

Also of interest, given that we are talking about the HIB vaccine..

https://www.mcall.com/news/local/watchdog/mc-sanofi-pasteur-defective-vaccine-vials-20161210-story.html

Hera

Hi Cia,
I agree with you about risk/benefits needing to be weighed, but I am just not sure where you are getting your figures from re both the numbers and side effects of babies with HIB.
I was working in hospitals back in the 80's.
We certainly weren't losing babies at the rate you mention. Deaths in hospital even then were both rare and devastating. A bunch of student nurses ( I left the profession many years ago and followed a different one, now am a stay at home Mom so nothing I say is ever medical advice.!) we sure talked about deaths.
The one baby I know of who died ( when i worked at a different hospital) was during a c section where they could not save it during the operation. 20 something years later, still in my head. We were all upset enough at the rare elderly deaths. It wasn't a big cutting edge hospital, but still.

I do remember looking after adults with meningitis. Dark room, arching back, high pitched scream sometimes. None of ours died , though. And I wonder when I hear of babies inconsolable and showing signs of brain inflammation after vaccines. Are these babies getting proper medical treatment, or are they just being ignored? Anecdotally, it seems that a lot of these babies are not even being medically treated.

I suppose though, that people in the future would assume, seeing the statistics, that people were dropping like flies every year from flu, and that we were all terrified to be near anyone who coughs.
Most of us avoid sick folks, but I don't think we really do so in terror of dying if exposed to the flu, unless we are talking very young, very elderly, or already immune damaged.

 ciaparker

Hans,

I completely agree that the CDC is corrupt: it is despicable, and I am glad so many are fighting to bring it to light and try to stop it. I just finished Forrest McReady's book My Incredible Opinion this morning, it is both very funny and furious at the official corruption at every level. But I think parents have to educate themselves, analyzing the sources of their information carefully, but still being aware of the dangers of some of the VPDs even here and now. I wouldn't blow off the dangers of Hib disease for older infants just because the CDC promotes a vaccine for it. I'd stay calm, breast feed the baby for at least a year, preferably two, if at all possible, and then consider whether in his circumstances, daycare and so on, the risks of the disease (severe disease affecting one in 350 in the early '80s, with 25% being permanently disabled with MR, deafness, blindness, etc. and 5% killed even with antibiotic treatment) outweighed (or not) the one in fifty with peanut allergy from the Hib vaccine (and other adverse reactions).

The CDC and our government and medical institutions are certainly very corrupt, but to not take the risks of contagious disease into consideration because of their corruption would be cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 ciaparker

rtp,

It takes one or both of two factors for someone to have a severe or fatal case of any disease. The disease may be extremely dangerous in itself, like rabies or Ebola, or it may be dangerous for relatively few of those that get it, like measles or chickenpox. In the second case it's the ineffectiveness of the patient's immune system that results in disability or death, either from being too weak or overreacting with too much inflammation. And there are a lot of cases between the extremes. It is absolutely incorrect to say that if doctors who have been exposed to disease pathogens many times have built up immunity either with or without symptoms, that means that no one would ever have a more severe reaction to the same germs. Everyone has completely different genetic and epigenetic (environmental) factors which make him unique and, to some extent, his reaction to either vaccines or diseases unpredictable.

Germs don't cause disease? Two years ago the EV-68 germs became epidemic all over the country at the beginning of the school year in August. My daughter was one of dozens at her school who got severe respiratory symptoms. She had a really bad cough which lasted for over a month. When I called the school to say she would be staying at home because she was sick with what I thought was a really sudden bad cold, the secretary said a lot of kids were out that week with flu-like symptoms. And it was like that all over the country, some schools considered closing for a few weeks until the epidemic was over. It was related to polio, and there were 120 kids permanently paralyzed by it and 12 deaths from it. Do you think it was all psychosomatic, down to the paralysis and death?

Have you never neglected a cut or scrape and it got red and inflamed, from bacterial infection? Never noticed that if you put on Neosporin antibiotic ointment, the redness, swelling, and soreness usually disappear within hours? I had several sinus infections for the first time when my daughter was little, and I got antibiotics for them. From total misery and pain, wanting to die, I went to completely recovered within a couple of hours. Again, psychosomatic, or did the antibiotic kill the germs which had caused the infection? My daughter had a sinus infection ten years ago and I got an antibiotic for her, same thing, after days of pain and misery, as soon as she started taking the antibiotic, she got well.

I've read that Waldorf thought says that germs are all harmless, that they migrate to areas where the body, in its wisdom, has decided that an area's tissues need to be destroyed and regenerated, and the germs just helpfully eat the tissue marked for destruction. But then how to explain epidemics of measles, pertussis, chickenpox, etc., in which thousands get the disease at the same time and transmit it to others?

The blood and brain are sterile, closed systems, and any germs that find their way into them are noticed by the immune system which tags them and destroys them (unless they are employing a system to elude detection, as pertussis germs do, which slows down the process of eliminating them).

I would say that billions of people since the beginning of homo sapiens have died from contagious disease. Millions have died in the last several millennia. The plague of Athens, of Constantinople, the Black Plague, the plague of London, English sweating sickness, smallpox from the seventeenth century on, diphtheria, pertussis, measles, and scarlet fever in the nineteenth and early twentieth century, all killed unimaginable and largely unrecorded numbers. Babies died of diarrheal diseases when they were weaned. I mentioned that my father had malaria in Louisiana when he was twelve (as did Laura Ingalls and her family), my father saw a man die of tetanus in his father's doctor's office, my mother had a little neighbor who died of diphtheria despite every doctor in Taylor, Texas, being called in to save him, I had a college roommate permanently crippled by polio when she was four: her parents has been afraid to get her the vaccine. I have had measles, rubella, chickenpox, probably mumps, pertussis when my vaxxed baby got it and gave it to me, rotavirus in Mexico City, hep-A after visiting a Navajo reservation, and many flus. I'm glad I got all of them, they made my immune system stronger and some of them gave me permanent immunity. But I'm glad I did not get a dangerous contagious disease, like polio, diphtheria, or meningitis. Or an infectious disease like tetanus.

No one can ever be sure he made a 100% correct choice on vaccines or vaccine abstinence. You can play the odds: most people will be healthier without any vaccines. But everyone must learn the relevant factors like personal age and health, pregnancy, etc., what's going around in his community and how dangerous it can be and usually is (different factors). Certainly how dangerous the vaccines are that he might consider getting, as well as the synergistic devastation of getting a lot of vaccines cumulatively. And learn the symptoms of dangerous cases of a disease and the importance of getting conventional medical treatment in those cases. And then make a choice. In my opinion, the tetanus series after two years old and the Hib meningitis series after four months old for babies not breastfed would be worth considering, but certainly no compulsion. The polio series if and only if it came back here.

Hans Litten

https://www.realfarmacy.com/flu-shot-pregnant/

4,250% Increase in Fetal Deaths Reported to VAERS After Flu Shot Given to Pregnant Women

Hg-enocide Western style

Hans Litten

https://www.naturalblaze.com/2016/12/british-town-mass-medicating-school-children-with-free-fluoridated-milk.html

What do you think Eindeker ?
Adding Fluoride to the milk of infants ?
Bad enough in the public water supply but a new low !

But tell us what do you think ? (You have already shown you are a apologist for mass poisoning) .

Hans Litten

Here are the vaccines Cia :

We are a group of scientists at CDC that are very concerned about the current state of ethics at our agency. It appears that our mission is being influenced and shaped by outside parties and rogue interests. … it is becoming the norm and not the rare exception. Some senior management officials at CDC are clearly aware and even condone these behaviors. Others see it and turn the other way. Some staff are intimidated and pressed to do things they know are not right.

https://healthimpactnews.com/2016/the-u-s-centers-for-disease-control-a-history-of-corruption/

Hans Litten

For ATSC :

https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/23-must-see-vaccine-documentaries-watch-share/

marvellous

rtp

And I believe the myth about bees was a confusion about physics not logic.

If you think logic is fundamentally wrong then you have no choice but to accept there is no reason to believe in anything - including germ theory and vaccines.

Suit yourself.

rtp

Did you just say Koch's postulates?

Really?

Because the postulates were abandoned immediately after they were devised because of the supposed phenomena of asymptomatic carriers.

The others have never been shown for a virus or bacteria either.

And blood isn't sterile. Healthy people have bacteria in their blood. Not much but some. So what you are looking at when you see lots in a sick patient is poisoning as opposed to infection.

But thanks for admitting that your beliefs are devoid of logic. That definitely makes them more attractive.

Quite amazing that you seem to prefer beliefs that are logically impossible.

Cia, if doctors' immune systems are sufficient to survive such an onslaught then the rest of us - who don't encounter anywhere near as many sick people - wouldn't never need any support in the form of vaccines would we?

You claimed contagious diseases wiped out billions of people but now you say they are so harmless that even people who spend their lives around sick people have little to fear.

 ciaparker

rtp,

That's why we have an immune system. In most cases, unless a germ is unusually virulent, most people's immune systems can overcome most germs, killing them and restoring the person to health, and becoming stronger, more resilient, more flexible, and more mature in the process. On our current question sheet in our homeschooling, my daughter has to memorize that the main weapon of the Th-1 branch of the immune system is white blood cells, and that of the Th-2 branch is antibodies. Babies are born with the Th-2 system predominant, but the task of the first year is to gradually be exposed to some of the milder germs to activate and strengthen the Th-1 branch, which should be the more important one in adulthood. Vaccines force unhealthy dependence on the Th-2 system, antibody-driven.

Breastfeeding gives the nursing infant all the antibodies to all the germs the mother has ever overcome and produced antibodies to, and strengthen the development of the child's digestive and neurological systems, as well as its immune system. Good nutritional status at any age make it easier for the immune system to carry out its functions, killing any germs which threaten the integrity of the body.

Of course the germ theory is correct, I disagree with Waldorf theory on this, but the whole point of the immune system is that very few germs are going to kill fundamentally healthy, well-nourished people. In the big picture. That still leaves a lot of diseases that can kill or disable a lot of people under the right circumstances.

Eindeker

RTP your logic is totally irrefutable, suggest you apply for membership of the Flat Earth Society or possibly more relevant the honourable society of " We Can Prove it's Impossible for Bees to Fly"

Failing that have a look at Koch's Postulates or the CSF of a patient with Haemophilus influenzae meningitis, see anything, oh yes pale Gram negative rods plus masses of white blood cells, now that should be sterile so what do you think it should look like?

rtp

Now, I answered your feeble question about how you think that doctor rent seeking somehow proves the germ theory is real, are you going to answer mine?

If the germ theory were true then all doctors (and their patients) throughout history (ie including before vaccines became widely used) would have dropped dead the moment they entered their office.

And yet, that is not even remotely true.

So the germ theory is not true.

QED

Now, what do you have to respond to this? And try and make it coherent please.

rtp

"OK RTP So I guess we can shut all the 10,000's of clinical microbiology laboratories that are isolating these non-existent pathogens from clinical specimens every day across the world"

Wow! That's some piece of logic. If somebody finds something, then it follows that that thing they found causes disease. So if they find a heart in the body of someone with a bad cough, then the heart caused the bad cough right?

Try thinking Eindecker.

So yes, we can shut most of the labs. They might be finding germs but they aren't actually proving any of them cause disease. That's the hard part. If this conversation was purely about whether germs exist or not, it would be a very short one. But it isn't. It is about whether they cause disease.

"doing useless antibiotic sensitivity testing on these harmless germs and then there's obviously no need to prescribe any antibiotics for these patients since all the data's made up any way to support this fraudulent "germ theory" so that will save even more money."

Antibiotics can suppress symptoms just like analgesics can (and just like analgesics they can cause severe damage). But just like analgesics, they don't fix the root cause.

But thanks for pointing to another positive from abandoning the useless and 100 per cent wrong germ theory. It will save us trillions (yes trillions) of dollars.

I can't believe you are using the fact that doctors and researchers engage in monstrous rent-seeking as the entire basis for your belief in germ theory!!!

If that is all you have then I hate to be the one to break this to you but your belief is as robust as a pile of sand.

 ciaparker

John,

You're right, sorry to give you the trouble of looking for it. Thanks!

Eindeker

OK RTP So I guess we can shut all the 10,000's of clinical microbiology laboratories that are isolating these non-existent pathogens from clinical specimens every day across the world, doing useless antibiotic sensitivity testing on these harmless germs and then there's obviously no need to prescribe any antibiotics for these patients since all the data's made up any way to support this fraudulent "germ theory" so that will save even more money.

ATSC

Hans Litten,

Many thanks for posting the link to Vaccine Roulette. I've been wanting to watch this documentary for a very long time.


@ around 28:00

Lea Thompson: Do you think doctors are reporting reactions?

AAP Dr Edward Mortimer: No

Lea Thompson: Why not?

Dr Mortimer: Legally it's not reportable.

Lea Thompson: Do you think doctors are warning patients about the risks?

Dr Mortimer: No


FDA Dr John Robbins says, "I think if as a parent you brought your child to a doctor for a DPT shot and the doctor said to you initially, 'Well I have to tell you that some children who get this vaccine get brain damaged', there's no question what your reaction would be as a responsible parent you'd say 'I wish not to take this vaccine'. (Now placing his hands together in a prayerful fashion as if he were a priest) "But, we do things together as a community to protect each other."

Nothing has changed. Richard Pan and the rest of the medical community who want to force mandatory vaccinations on everyone and disallow any medical exemptions give no thought whatsoever to the vaccine injured and killed. To them, it's all about herd immunity, now renamed "Community Immunity" by Pan.

I think those of us with vaccine injured children would all agree with Jim Grant, Scott's father who says, "I often wonder about those people who do these studies and are ultimately the directors of them and so forth, what they would say and how they would feel if it did in fact happen to one of theirs. It's an altogether different ball game then".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtOh6vFnWg4

John Stone

Cia

Different thread, I think

https://www.ageofautism.com/2016/11/vaccines-its-up-to-you.html

30 Nov 2016 3.03pm

 ciaparker

John,
No, I answered Linda at the top, and then copied out passages with page numbers from several books which talked about Hib disease: Dr. Sears, Dr. Thomas, Vaccines 2.0, The Vaccine Guide, and I can't remember if I quoted from any more. Dr. Neustaedter referred to a study which found that one in (what was it?) 350 children in the '80s got invasive Hib disease. I don't see it here now.

Linda1

Just happened to see this, published in 2013. Must be a med student brainwashing tool because according to Amazon's #'s, the public certainly isn't buying it: https://www.amazon.com/dp/146147437X/ref=rdr_ext_tmb

You know what's wrong with you all? Vaccinophobia. I bet it's in the latest DSM. I'm sure they're working on a life long treatment that will help you to get over your fear.

rtp

Cia, the mantra that "billions of people" died from contagious disease *all* comes from made up data.

All *actual* counted data that we have (from a few select countries for a few hundred years) shows that the "billions of people" mantra is abject nonsense.

Plus the fact that the germ theory is mathematically impossible and anybody (who hasn't been subject to the brainwashing) can plainly see that if it were true, doctors would have the lifespan of a fruitfly.

So what we have is valid (actually counted) data and logic/maths on one side telling us that germ theory is baseless and made up data (guesses on uniform distributions) and authority/popularity on the other.

Authority/popularity usually wins over logic and evidence for hearts and minds but it doesn't make it true.

John Stone

Cia

Is the comment you think is missing the one below on 9 December at 10.42 am?

 ciaparker

Rtp,
Did you read Dr. Humphries' Dissolving Illusions? I read it three years ago and was shocked by the huge numbers of children dying of contagious diseases. If you don't believe in the dangers of many contagious diseases, then I"m afraid we have no common ground on which to discuss the issues.

 ciaparker

I was looking for the name of the researcher I mentioned in a long comment the other day, who said that in the '80s one child in 350 got invasive Hib disease, but I don't see the comment, the one with direct citations from several authors on Hib disease. Was it taken down?

 ciaparker

ATSC,

There have been many children injured or killed by both the diseases and the vaccines. All of them should be protected to the greatest degree possible.

There's nothing magical about two-year olds, and certainly no one is immune at any age from devastating vaccine reactions. But as Tim said, Better heavier, older, single, no Tylenol. There are a lot fewer severe reactions the older the child is. Dr. Thompson's study found the quadrupling of autism in black male toddlers under the age of three compared to older than three. Age matters and is one of the factors to be considered. At two the child has a more mature immune system and is more stable overall in his health. Deaths from measles sank to very few after three, while much higher at one, two, and under one. Children two years old are running around and more likely to get a tetanus-prone wound. But certainly a violent vaccine reaction is always possible. But you need to weigh it against the risk of tetanus.

For the Hib, I'd say that if the parents choose the vaccine, the child is probably protected by placental immunity and breastfeeding for the first six months, but the second six months is the period when he most needs protection from Hib disease.

Rtp

Cia, actually yes they very much did invent the millions of deaths due to so called contagious disease.

Smallpox wiped out all vaccines of indigenous America right? Everybody knows that.

But everybody is wrong.

There was no population data and certainly no cause of death data for these people. Historians just tried to outdo each other to see who could make the most outrageous estimate as to deaths caused by smallpox.

Eyewitnesses such as Cortes barely mentioned smallpox (he gave it half a page). Historians just made it all up.

Where actual mortality and cause of death data was well recorded - such as the UK - smallpox was not a raging killer. 2 per 1000 per year. Not trivial but not what the propaganda would have us believe.

And deaths due to smallpox fell at the same rate in the U.K. during the 19th century as other diseases even though only smallpox was vaccinated against.

Same goes for the 300 million estimated deaths from smallpox in the 20th century.

Completely made up. They came from countries with little population data, let alone cause of death data. Just like the WHO recently did with measles deaths in Africa.

Another amazing article by Greg Beattie for you all to read ("Measles deaths in Africa").

They made it all up. They may not have done so with any grand plan in mind but historians allowed their pro vaccine prejudices affect their estimates. Indeed they weren't actually estimates they were guesses.

And guesses on a uniform distribution are completely worthless.

Linda1

Cia,

"But I believe the doctors who seem to me to be honest and compassionate when they describe how serious a problem it had become thirty years ago, many babies killed by it, many disabled by it. "

We are the same age. I also don't remember anyone to ever have Hib. I don't remember children getting deathly ill in the 50s or 60s. No one in fact. I don't believe these doctors. I think they are spouting what they were told and if they did see disease, I don't believe they understand the etiology - that it was likely caused by another medical intervention. MDs think in a tunnel, one thing at a time. They don't connect dots, and all the answers are in the dots.

 ciaparker

Hans,

Again, I totally agree that the vaccine industry has been extremely corrupt for at least forty years, maybe longer, and it WOULD be foolish to take anything it or its minions said at face value. It is despicable.

But there did use to be many killer diseases which were very common and killed tens of thousands of children every year. Some used to be killer diseases but became much less dangerous before the vaccines for them were developed. Some have killed or disabled a relatively small number, who still should be taken into account. The vaccines DO usually work to prevent the diseases (except the flu and pertussis vaccines). They are ALSO very dangerous, and have severely damaged half of American children now with autism, seizure disorders, learning disabilities, and a wide range of autoimmune diseases. It would be positively be beneficial in many ways for the vast majority of children to just get measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox, and pertussis the way they used to, taking appropriate precautions in the case of infants and pregnant women, and appropriate care to those who got the diseases. They should give the hep-b vaccine only to babies born to infected mothers. Gardasil is an insane vaccine, cooked up only for pharma profits, as was the hep-B vaccine.

But not even the vaccine industry could just invent centuries of annals of the ravages of contagious disease. Both sides are true. Some of the VPDs could still be very dangerous if most people stopped vaxxing for them. I never even heard of Hib disease until I was pregnant, and neither I nor anyone I ever knew or heard of got a clinical case of it. But I believe the doctors who seem to me to be honest and compassionate when they describe how serious a problem it had become thirty years ago, many babies killed by it, many disabled by it. And I would never try to make anyone get that or any other vaccine. But it's something every parent needs to learn about, research, hopefully commit to breastfeeding, no daycare, and homeopathic prophylaxis, and not take the risk of the vaccine. But it would be all right with me, if they couldn't commit to any of these measures, and the baby was going to be in daycare, if they decided to get the Hib vaccine.

Han Litten

John Bennett Robbins (born December 1, 1932)[1] is a senior investigator at the National Institutes of Health, best known for his development of the vaccine against bacterial meningitis (Haemophilus influenzae type B (Hib)) with his colleague Rachel Schneerson.
Bacterial meningitis is the leading cause of acquired mental retardation in children.
Robbins is a recipient of the 1996 Albert Lasker Award for Clinical Medical Research,[2] the Pasteur Award from the World Health Organization and the Albert B. Sabin Gold Medal in 2001 which he received for playing a major role in the development of Hib conjugate vaccine that is now used throughout the world and has led to a dramatic decline in the number of infants and children suffering from meningitis and other systemic infections such as osteomyelitis and pneumonia.[3] He is also a member of the National Academy of Science.

The film Vaccine Roullete:
And here is the so called Dr Robbins saying there isnt enough fda money to correctly investigate the pertusis vaccine , makes him a criminal in my eyes .

Han Litten

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtOh6vFnWg4

For Cia and Eindekker .1982

the Vaccine program success is entirely dependent on the full cooperation of the lamestream media , without the likes of the BBC , the crime is not possible .

Brainwashing
Bribery
Corruption

ATSC

Eindeker,

The 60 Minutes documentary was obviously biased, and a hatchet job on Dr Viera Scheibner whose understandable angry outburst (shown twice) after being deliberately provoked by the interviewer was only included to put her in a bad light. Dr Scheibner was right when she said it was a farce. Timewise, she was given approximately three minutes (in total) to speak compared to almost ten minutes devoted to grieving parents, shocking photos of sick, hospitalised babies - and Dr Peter McIntyre criticizing Dr Wakefield.

When McIntyre was asked: "Should the medical community be more candid about the risks of vaccines, both now and in the past in order to overcome some of the anxiety about giving kids the jab?"

He answered: "Absolutely. And, believe me, if we were concerned about something not working or particularly something was causing harm, we would be the first to put up our hands and say let's stop it."

Which is of course nonsense. The medical community is silent on the risks of vaccines. Try searching for risks or serious reactions on the Immunise Australia website:

https://www.immunise.health.gov.au/internet/immunise/publishing.nsf/Content/frequently-asked-questions#17


Did the medical community immediately alert the public in 2010 that there was a problem with the flu vaccine that they were injecting into their babies and children? They did not. 111 children were taken to the Emergency Department, 60 children were hospitalised, 23 with convulsions, one child was in a coma, and another was "seriously ill" and in a critical state.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFFp_b2UnTI


"The medical profession knew that these adverse reactions were occurring and, very sadly, nothing was said to the public".

Saba Button was profoundly and permanently brain damaged by this vaccine and two-year old Ashley Epapara died.

A few years later, this was all Dr Peter McIntyre had to say (@ 5.56):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht_QAIBwFFg

"We did have unexpected problems with the flu vaccine causing fevers a few years ago. When that came to light, it was unexpected but it was dealt with very quickly and the vaccine was withdrawn from use completely until we worked out what was happening".

What did the public hear? They withdrew the vaccine because of..... "fevers", which are considered to be a common reaction to vaccines. McIntyre neglected to mention those poor children who'd suffered convulsions, coma, serious illness, brain damage and death from this vaccine.

If the 60 Minutes team had wanted to produce a balanced documentary, they could have interviewed families of children hospitalised by the vaccine, and the Button and Epapara families, but those children, like all vaccine-injured and killed children, have long been forgotten by Dr Peter McIntyre and the medical community.

https://vaccine-injury.info/about.cfm


And it has recently been confirmed by NICU nurses that Dr Viera Scheibner was right about breathing patterns changing after vaccination.

 ciaparker

Hans,

The underprivileged classes have always been the ones hardest hit by contagious disease: true a hundred years ago and true now when privileged families like the British royals live in spacious housing with on-call homeopathic physicians and no need for daycare.

In general I am against vaccines, but I've explained why I think that many parents would choose the Hib vaccine for their children if they could not breast feed or had to use daycare. And looking at the figures, I think it would be a justifiable decision, as long as they were aware of the dangers, but thought the danger of the disease was greater. I don't think Dr. Thomas said that before the vaccine there were always several babies being treated for Hib disease at his hospital, but after the vaccine none, not realizing that there were still just as many children being treated for a Hib look-alike at his hospital being called something else.

I am aware of the dangers of fluoride, but also realize that it prevents tooth decay. Like vaccines, it has two sides. When I was told two and a half years ago that my daughter had small cavities in three places on her molars, probably because of braces, I thought there was no way she would cooperate in having them filled, and I was afraid of the idea of having them filled under general anesthesia. I had read that sometimes cavities can be remineralized with fluoride treatment. I directed her toothbrushing using a super-fluoride toothpaste once a day for over a year. In a year they said that the cavities were gone, and had in fact been remineralized.

I will probably never know if I made the right decision, but I was able to avoid having any fillings put in her teeth. We only use the super-fluoride toothpaste once a week now. My decision, the dentist would like it to be used every day.

 ciaparker

Rtp,

That's one of the problems of taking out a lot of the germs that cause one disease: often others expand to fill the gap created. In this case, taking out Haemophilus influenzae germs led to a vast increase in Pneumococcal meningitis germs, which caused a vast increase in that kind of meningitis. Then when those were taken out by Prevnar, meningococcal meningitis germs increased to fill that gap.

Again, I don't have all the answers. I hope that the homeopathic nosodes would safely and effectively prevent the diseases in children. But even with the problems and the adverse reactions, you can't just let a thousand babies a year die of Hib disease without trying to do something to prevent it. Vaccines are one possible alternative, but there are many better alternatives when it is possible to implement them: breastfeeding, avoidance of daycare, treatment with vitamin C as well as antibiotics, and homeopathic preventives and remedies.

Hera

John,
Thank you for your kind words .

John Stone

Hera

After all these years posting wisely as Hera I wouldn't like you to be anyone else, though I realise you are much better natured than the original.

Hera

Hi John,

Thanks for your plane image; I love it! You are right about where my name came from; couldn't think of anything, and was thinking about Hera the mother of the Greek Gods. Actually she could be pretty obnoxious and had a nasty line in revenge, but I was thinking there was no way she would just let people damage her kids. So, to me that name was a reminder to keep fighting ( legally of course.)
Now that I think about it though, it also could be seen as a fairly obnoxious/arrogant choice of names...oops..

So perhaps I should remember that Eindeker also chose his name a long time ago..

Congratulations to both you and Angus Files on getting the information about Andrew Pollard!

rtp

I read what you said Eindecker and I answered it precisely.

If the vaccine did what it was promised to do we would have vastly less meningitis, pneumonia and sepsis today.

But we don't. So the only rational conclusion is that the vaccine was worthless and they just shifted the blame from one ubiquitous bacteria to another ubiquitous bacteria.

The only other possible conclusion is that eliminating one bacteria through vaccination leads to some evolutionary pressure on other bacteria that cause the same symptoms to take its place.

I don't buy that but even if it were true it would still mean that vaccination was a complete waste of time.

And epiglottitis falls have certainly not been reflected in overall falls in respiratory hospitalizations.

Yet again, more renaming.

There are no vaccine success stories.

100 per cent of those that appear to be are just self fulfilling prophecies.

John Stone

Hera

Yes, it is strange that he uses as a pseudonym a German light aircraft of the First World War, though oddly misspelt. Of course, I always imagine you as an imperious Greek goddess while I imagine Eindeker as someone who has been sent to buzz us by the British pharmaceutical-government complex.

Hera

Hi Eindeker;
what I find even more intriguing is the rate of epiglottis where they don't vaccinate for HIB

https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.570.7263&rep=rep1&type=pdf

From the article

" In Asia,paediatric acute epiglottitis is a relatively rare disease
even though the HiB vaccine is not extensively used(2)."

Apparently, we are told, Asia just never had much epiglottis...The reason we don't have much; a highly effective vaccine, apparently. The reason they don't have much; no vaccine and they just don't have it. Apparently it has always been rare there. Makes you wonder.

By the way, I have always wondered if your name is from the German plane , and is meant to be a subtle insult; to us, I'm guessing. Am I right? If so, it seems a little childish.

Barry

At the end she flounces off because she doesn't like being questioned on her beliefs, at best she is an eccentric old lady who spouts cranky and dangerous views. If you place your trust in this woman's opinions I'm sorry for your gullibility.

**********

I get that you like to come here and throw mud Eindeker, it's what you do.

But it's ridiculous for you to make such childish criticisms of a real scientist, who has the courage to defend the science she believes in. When your heroes are best known for hiding from (... and sometimes even running from) unscripted debates about their science.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRAJdyPNWnA

Are you familiar with the phrase " people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones " ?

Eindeker

RTP I wrote In the UK cases of bacterial meningitis due to Haemophilus influenza b declined by 98% not if meningitis (and pneumonia and sepsis) fell by 98 per cent?

Prevnar is a vaccine against Streptococcus pneumonia strains, but I guess if, for whatever reason, you don't believe that there are such things as pathogenic microorganisms that cause infectious disease she still wrongly believes in germ theory all this is lost to you. By the way notice the parallel reduction in epiglottitis in countries implementing HiB vaccination, strange that isn't it?

Han Litten

Eindeker | December 09, 2016 at 01:45 PM (cherry picker)

I have no idea about Viera Scheibner in general but her comment merely says all the research has been done to know the full truth about vaccination . Its all been done .
I like what she has to say about that. The absolute truth is already known .

As to how much faith I have in Viera Scheibner , all I know is I have a great deal more faith in her than the vacination-extermination industry .

rtp

And your comment about doctors checking for bacteria when they suspect meningitis is nonsense.

Even if they check for every possible bacteria today diligently and without prejudice (an absurd proposition given we all have trillions of bacteria on us and there are supposedly dozens of bacteria that meningitis is blamed on) only a fool would believe that they have always done so since Adam was a boy rendering the historical time series comparisons meaningless - apples with oranges.

Greg Beattie understands this. So too does Scheibner but she still wrongly believes in germ theory.

You don't. They are both far better sources of information than you.

But even then, the point is moot because even if the vaccine successfully reduced the bacteria, if it doesn't actually reduce meningitis - and the stats clearly show that it does not - all you've proven is that the bacteria was never responsible in the first place.

rtp

And respiratory hospitalizations are extremely common today.

Children are ten times as likely to have a disability today than before the widespread use of vaccines (US census data).

Now different types of disability have increased at different rates but none appear to have decreased - including those specifically targeted by vaccines (eg polio vaccine and paralysis, rubella and CD, etc).

How anybody can convince themselves that any vaccine serves any purpose other than to kill and maim is beyond me.

Doctors differentially diagnose on vaccine status. That is a fact. And a pretty obvious one too.

Therefore vaccine success is nothing more than a self fulfilling prophecy.

rtp

No Eindecker. Meningitis overall did not fall as a result of the vaccine.

They just stopped blaming Hib.

You should know this because we have to keep vaccinating for one meningitis germ after another.

What possible reason could there have been for Prevnar if meningitis (and pneumonia and sepsis) fell by 98 per cent?

Meningitis deaths have fallen but that was just a continuation of the previous trend.

Eindeker

Hans: Viera Scheibner has never published any peer reviewed article on vaccinations, this is a TV report of her in full flow, I'll leave you to judge what credence you should put on her views regarding vaccination https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkVpy1BfV2g At the end, unbelievably, she starts demanding to interrogate recently bereaved parents whose child died of whooping cough because "she" doesn't think that is the case. Have a look around the 8 minute mark to see what a nice individual she is.......At the end she flounces off because she doesn't like being questioned on her beliefs, at best she is an eccentric old lady who spouts cranky and dangerous views. If you place your trust in this woman's opinions I'm sorry for your gullibility.
David Burd: Mr Greg Beattie, and you, need to understand some basic hospital/laboratory techniques of course cases of HiB meningitis declined rapidly after the introduction of the vaccine. A doctor suspects a child of having bacterial meningitis, he/she doesn't know what the organism is so blood culture samples and a CSF sample are taken and sent to the microbiology laboratory for culture and microscopy, purulent bacterial meningitis is an acute life threatening condition. Microscopy may give some indication of the organism, cultures will, and guess what the % of bacterial meningitis cases due to Haemophilus influenza b declined rapidly following the introduction of the vaccine. In the UK cases of bacterial meningitis due to Haemophilus influenza b declined by 98% https://www.meningitisnow.org/meningitis-explained/what-meningitis/types-and-causes/hib-meningitis/?gclid=CJHp1L_h59ACFQ0z0wodCi4Pzw following the introduction of vaccination, and by the way The incidence of epiglottitis has decreased significantly in countries where vaccination against Haemophilus influenzae is administered so no confusion there, the symptoms of epiglottitis and bacterial meningitis are radically different,

 ciaparker

David,

All I can do it try to decide if I think the source I'm reading is giving what the author believes to be accurate information, and if I trust the author. You're right, Hib disease is pretty amorphous and can take many forms. The bacteria are present in the respiratory tracts of most people most of the time. In most cases, this permits most children to catch a subclinical form of the disease and get permanent immunity. In what had become the largest percentage of children ever by the early '80s, for reasons I'm not sure of, it caused serious, invasive disease which was often fatal or disabling. And even saying that is based completely on faith in what I have read.

But after reading what Dr. Sears and Dr. Thomas said about the many children they used to treat for invasive Hib disease in the '80s, Dr. Thomas said that at any time there were several children in his hospital with it, and after the vaccine, none, Dr. Mumpers saying that many of these babies had a lot of pus taken out with their spinal taps, and Dr. Neustaedter's saying that Hib disease was not a relatively mild childhood disease and was not uncommon before the vaccine, I'd have to say that it was a problem which I think it was probably appropriate to address with a vaccine. At that time, they had no idea that the vaccine would cause peanut allergy in one in fifty. Since last night, I've been trying to calculate whether it would be better to take a one in fifty risk of peanut allergy or a one in several hundred chance of invasive Hib disease. In most cases, death is not caused by either one, but in some it is. There's really no way to do the calculation. There are "only" maybe twenty deaths a year in the US from peanut allergy, while, if the figures I have seen are correct, there were a thousand deaths a year from Hib disease. I was wondering this morning if it would be practical to try to convince all women in the US to breastfeed for at least a year, partly to prevent this disease. I used to think, well, they could pump breast milk if they had to work and freeze it until needed. They could find a woman who took in a small number of children in her home to care for, and not put their baby in daycare. I would have to say that ultimately I don't have the answers. Most mothers are not going to go to that much trouble to give their babies breast milk. I wish they would, but it's going to be a long time before all of them so. It might be more practical to set up a state-sponsored program of women taking care of not more than two or three babies and small children in their homes, but that wouldn't eliminate all exposure to contagious disease in babies (and they have to be exposed sooner or later), just reduce it.

And since most adults have never gotten the Hib vaccine, most of us continue to carry and spread the germs, which for most is a good thing, but for some babies can be fatal.

I don't think it's a good thing to try to wipe out trillions of universal germs which may be positive most of the time, but, other than maybe the homeopathic nosode, I really don't know what to recommend to protect babies from invasive Hib disease when the mothers can't or don't want to breastfeed them for at least a year. I wouldn't give the vaccine at two months old, when they usually start, but would wait until four months old. Babies from birth to six months old are protected by their mothers' antibodies (if they got the natural disease from subclinical exposure). It's from six to twelve months old that is the period of highest fatality and disability from invasive Hib disease.

I would really like to see a large-scale trial done of the homeopathic nosodes for this and other VPDs. What a relief if they were effective in protecting people from the most dangerous of the VPDs, and could solve this problem.

david m burd

Cia and All, IF in fact the morbidity/mortality stats Cia cites are valid, then my own thought there is a justifiable decision for parents to decides regards having their child Hib-vaccinated.

However, the CDC et al. lied for decades spewing out 35,000 Americans died annually from the flu, when in fact it's usually less than 1,000. My question is the validity of Hib deaths/permanent injuries? I think Greg Beattle provides food for serious thought.

What is Hib disease?
By Greg Beattie

Is it meningitis? No. Is it epiglottitis? No. Is it septicemia, or pneumonia, or cellulitis, arthritis, middle ear infection, osteomyelitis, conjunctivitis, or respiratory infections? Well, no. But sometimes it presents as these diseases. Then what is it? And what does the vaccine aim to protect our children from? Hib is not a disease. It’s a type of bacteria – Haemophilus influenzae type b.

The term Hib disease applies to any disease where Hib is found in laboratory tests. It can be any of a great variety of diseases including those mentioned above. But that doesn’t mean that all cases of meningitis, or epiglottitis, or middle ear infection etc, are Hib disease. Only some of them. Only when a specimen is sent to a laboratory and Hib is found in it. If some other bacteria are found the disease is given a different name. If no bacteria are found it gets another name again.

So, Hib disease is not like measles, or whooping cough, or polio, or any of the other diseases we vaccinate for, because it is not defined by symptoms. Hib disease can basically be any disease with any symptoms. Whereas whooping cough, measles etc. have traditionally been defined by the symptoms they present, Hib disease is defined entirely by laboratory tests. There is no clinical definition for it.

You may be asking, what does that matter? It matters when we introduce a vaccine for it, because we must be able to see how well the vaccine is working – i.e., how much disease it’s preventing. Measles vaccine was introduced to combat the illness we call measles (fever, skin rash etc), and its associated complications and deaths. Whooping cough vaccine was introduced to combat a different illness, with a different set of symptoms. Rubella vaccine was introduced to combat birth defects. Polio vaccine, to prevent paralysis. What is Hib vaccine supposed to prevent? Which illness was chosen for monitoring to see if the vaccine was beneficial?

The truth is, none. No illness is being monitored. Basically, we don’t know if Hib vaccination is reducing illness at all. The only thing being monitored is the frequency of Hib bacteria found in sick children. There are fewer laboratory tests detecting Hib nowadays so the vaccine is considered to be effective. The primary motive for introducing the vaccine was to combat what are known as invasive bacterial infections. But there is no evidence this has been achieved. In fact, it has not even been looked at.

Hans Litten

https://www.drcarley.com/Horrors_of_Vaccination_Exposed.pdf

The vaccines of yester-year through those rose tinted glasses .

One comment was considered not suitable for AoA and censored out .

Hans Litten

"For all contributors to vaccine debates: the fact is that about 30% of published orthodox medical research actually links the observed illnesses and serious organ damage and deaths occurring after any and all vaccines to the administered vaccines. There is no need for any new research, just for reading the existing research. "
Posted by: Dr Viera Scheibner | July 24, 2015 at 11:32 PM

Viera Scheibner (Slovak: Viera Scheibnerová; born 27 March 1935, Bratislava) is a retired micropaleontologist. From 1958 until 1968 she was assistant professor in the department of geology at Comenius University, Bratislava. Scheibner has been active in the anti-vaccination field researching, writing and giving lectures on the subject matter of vaccines and vaccinations since her retirement from the Department of Mineral Resources, New South Wales, Australia in 1987.

Hans Litten

ciaparker | December 08, 2016 at 09:14 PM

Heard of the Leicester Vaccine riots ? 1860's was it ?
The 1918 Spanish Influenza rumours (that it was a vaccine caused pandemic) ?

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/09/12/free-book-documenting-the-horrors-of-vaccination.aspx
BY CHAS. M. HIGGINS 1920 Published by Chas M. Higgins, Brooklyn.

And regarding those secret ingredients again , HCG hidden in tetanus vaccines to mass sterilise .
Phillipines 1995 (admitted on the BBC no less)
Mexico 1974
Kenya 2015 (Obama's country of origin) .
Venezuela , Sri Lanka , Nigeria , nssm200 .

While we are at it , what are your views on the fluoridation of the public water supply ?
Like these criminals care about anyones teeth .

1960: Sv40 in the polio vaccine causing a cancer Pandemic to 120M americans as admitted on the cdc's own website .

Global autism numbers now admitted to be approximately 100M worldwide .

Then there is the most mysterious Aids pandemic , which Dr. Luc Montagnier himself admitted to
Kary Mullis (PCR nobel prize winner) had nothing to do with HIV .

Then there is the Maurice Hilleman recordings not meant for public consumption where the godfather of vaccines admits vaccination is "bargain basement" healthcare .
He admits they brought in Aids , he admits vaccines association with tumours & cancers .
And that was at least 20 years ago .

https://www.vaccinationinformationnetwork.com/an-interview-with-dr-archie-kalokerinos-md/

Archie Kalokerinos: My final conclusion after forty years or more in this business is that the unofficial policy of the World Health Organisation and the unofficial policy of ‘Save the Children Fund’ and almost all those organisations is one of murder and genocide.
They want to make it appear as if they are saving these kids, but in actual fact they don’t. I am talking of those at the very top. Beneath that level is another level of doctors and health workers, like myself, who don’t really understand what they are doing. But I cannot see any other possible explanation: It is murder and it is genocide. And I tell you what: when the black races really wake up to what we have done to them they are not going to thank us very much. And if you want to see what harm vaccines do, don’t come to Australia or New Zealand or any place, go to Africa and you will see it there. (& this man had the backing of Linus Pauling 2 times nobel prize winner)

So you tell me Cia , how many vaccinations do you think the British Royal family have ever had ?
Or the Rothschild family ? Or the Rockefellor family ? Or the Gates family ? and so on
I bet I can hazard a guess , I bet you anything you like , that it is zero !

Hans Litten

https://www.naturalblaze.com/2016/12/hr-34-21st-century-cures-act-time-for-real-push-back-now-or-regret-it.html

The HR34 bill would allow:

Experimental drugs and vaccines to be used on people without informed consent,
The licensing of medical devices and drugs [vaccines are drugs/biologicals] that have not gone through rigorous safety and efficacy trials,

“Expedited” safety and efficacy testing for drugs, vaccines and medical devices, It eliminates current law that requires physicians to report gifts and other forms of compensation from drug, vaccine and medical devices firms.

Currently, a child injured in utero by a vaccine has a legal right to sue the doctor and vaccine manufacturer. HR 34 takes away those basic rights and would force the child to apply in the dead-end National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. [CJF emphasis added]
Please share this message with friends and family, and post to social networks.

Sallie likes to be known as an “anti-vaccine activist” rather than a vaccine safety advocate. As such, she’s very dedicated to making certain that children aren’t harmed by all the toxins in vaccines, which almost any person with some common sense would want and demand for their children and themselves.

 ciaparker

I appreciate the comments of those of you who showed respect for my opinions. Thank you. I don't ask for agreement, just for serious thought. If you had lived in the nineteenth century, at a time when tens of thousands of children a year were dying of measles, pertussis, scarlet fever, or diphtheria, which means that children in every town, even in most families, were dying of them, what would you have done if there had been vaccines for them available? Now, in the First World, you're not taking much of a risk even if you don't get any of the vaccines for your children; but what would you have done if the choice were more stark: vaccines or death for a large percentage of children?

For years, maybe since I read The Peanut Allergy Epidemic, which proves that the Hib meningitis vaccine causes peanut allergy, now in one in fifty American children, I was completely against the Hib vaccine. I thought that since breastfeeding is very effective in preventing it, and I believe that if the pertussis vaccine were not given, there would be almost no meningitis, that that was enough to say to forget the Hib vaccine. It was just a few weeks ago that I read more about how relatively common and severe Hib disease (not just meningitis) had become by the early '80s. I was surprised, and surprised at how often it killed or caused a permanent disability. I had never heard of it until I was expecting and reading baby care books. I read some personal accounts of doctors who had treated it in the '80s, when it reached its highest rate ever. And then I read how fast the rates of Hib disease dropped after the vaccine was introduced in the late '80s, until now, when almost all babies get the vaccine, there are close to no cases of Hib disease. I still think it's better to get a subclinical case and get permanent immunity, as most children did before the vaccine, but in my imagination, it's all normal and happy, no vaccine, happy ending. And it would still be a case of the numbers favoring those who didn't get the vaccine and didn't get the disease. It would be something that all parents would have to consider carefully. One in fifty chance of peanut allergy is something to consider, sometimes fatal. But by 1982 there were 20,000 cases of invasive Hib disease every year in the US, with 5% of cases fatal, even with antibiotic treatment, and 25% having a permanent disability. The rates went from 20,000 a year to close to none within a few years of the vaccine's being introduced. And that's something to at least consider as well. If a child is breastfed until at least one, I'd say to not get the vaccine. Otherwise, I'd have to say to think about it.

And tetanus is an ever-present possibility, the disease terrible and often fatal even now. I am certain that the vaccine is effective, and protects for at least forty years after getting the initial series. The vaccine can cause serious side effects, as all of them can. My daughter and I are not going to get it or any other shots again, but I think parents should think about it.

I would say that no one should ever get the pertussis, measles, mumps, chickenpox, hep-A, rotavirus, flu, (I've had all of these), polio (unless it came back), or Gardasil. Probably not Prevnar or Menactra, but I'd have to research them and the diseases more to see if I'm still deadset against them. No rubella vaccine unless you haven't gotten it naturally by the time you might get pregnant, and then think about it. I'm not pro-vaccine, but in the case of tetanus and Hib disease, I'm afraid enough of the diseases that I can't say it's always better to not get the vaccines.

It's obviously not fair to say that I am a pharma plant. I am absolutely against all mandates, but I think everyone should remember how terrible many of the diseases used to be. I don't think anyone would say that the 20,000 babies who used to get invasive Hib disease thirty years ago were not important or that such a thing could never happen again. We'd have to see, and see if not giving as many vaccines overall resulted in fewer babies getting Hib disease. And it's probably going to be a long time before we reach the point of not many babies getting the pertussis vaccine, which depresses immune function. In the early '80s the vaccine epidemic hadn't started yet: they were getting just DPT, polio, and MMR (already very dangerous and too much, but many think it would be good to return to the safer, early '80s schedule).

I agree that vaccines are dangerous and unpredictable. The childhood diseases were beneficial for the vast majority. But if you were in a situation in which diphtheria, polio, tetanus, or Hib disease were a possibility, then I think you would owe it to your child to research the question carefully.

Would it not seem intrusive to tell me that I HAVE to be 100% against all vaccines, that I HAVE to believe that none of them has EVER been effective, that none of them has EVER prevented a single case of any disease, and that all the VPDs were actually always very mild and not worth worrying about? And what are you going to do to me if I say that I cannot believe these things? I think it's more respectful of the suffering of both humans and animals to consider how much suffering both the diseases and the vaccines have caused, and to try to tread very carefully looking for the least harmful path, but aware that no one can ever be sure that he has chosen right.

Barry

Hans Litten, You may have had enough of Cia, but I haven't. She has a nuanced position based on extensive research. Her posts are thoughtful and informative, and respectful of the views of others. Unlike yours, I'm sorry to say.

You are entitled to your opinion, as she is, as we all are. Surely we do not have to walk in lock step here.

******

Easy guys, Hans is just voicing his opinion. And that is no different than what CIA is doing.

From where I'm sitting, it all depends on how far along you are with the vaccine truth. If you're at the point where you know that vaccines are pure poison, than what Hans is saying is music to your ears. And the suggestion from anyone that injecting less vaccines into a child, or waiting until that child is little older, is morally repugnant.

To me, Hans is just another parent who's child who was vaccine injured on his watch. And his only goal here, is getting to the truth. So that what happened to his child, doesn't happen to some else's .

And I struggle to understand, how that could possibly single him out on a site like this.

ATSC

"Call it paranoid if you like , but I was coerced against my better (and as it turns out superior)judgement into allowing my child to be vaccinated 8/9 years ago and the price I have paid for that weakness on my part is a very heavy one (my child has suffered immeasurably). So I cannot listen to anyone in our world (or theirs) making any case for the fraud they call "vaccination""

I agree with Hans. I don't think Cia is a pharma plant but why would anyone who has lived through this nightmare promote any vaccines when they are all dangerous?

And, Cia, what is magical about two year-olds when 2, 3 and 4 year-olds have reacted to their vaccines and regressed? I'd much rather tell parents to do their own research than tell them not to vaccinate, or vaccinate. After all, they will have to live with the consequences.


Cait from Canada

Hans Litten, You may have had enough of Cia, but I haven't. She has a nuanced position based on extensive research. Her posts are thoughtful and informative, and respectful of the views of others. Unlike yours, I'm sorry to say.

You are entitled to your opinion, as she is, as we all are. Surely we do not have to walk in lock step here.

Hera

Sorry about the typos
"and one pro vaccine extremist on this site talked about"
By the way, I respect Cia very much, though I don't necessarily agree with all her opinions. I do think it is great to have diverse opinions here. What I am against is misinformation and lack of medical freedom of choice.

Hera

Hi Hans Litten; I too agree that Cia is no plant. I believe in the freedom to make medical choices,and if Cia wants to vaccinate with some vaccines imo that is her choice.
I don't think they are as safe or effective as she thinks they are, however.

https://www.wthr.com/article/death-rate-grows-life-expectancy-shrinks-for-americans

Interesting; we have had a huge campaign to vaccinate everyone with more and more shots, and rone pro vaccine extremist on this site talk about how much longer people would now live ( years of increased life expectancy) because of the increase in vaccinations. Not seeing it. Apparently we are now dying younger . Interesting also that pneumonia and flu death rates are stable. Shouldn't there be a huge drop over the last couple of years if the massive new flu vaccine campaign actually works?
Death rate for 2015 is the same as 2014, and as far as I can tell started to increase in 2013.
Cancer has dropped a bit, but apparently less than expected given a huge decrease in smokers. Interesting to see how long term it does not seem that our current vaccination schedule is saving lives at all.

david m burd

As many already know my specialty is the condemnation of annual mercury-laden flu shots, ceaselessly promoted and coerced onto everyone by Government/School autocrats and bullies. Just yesterday at a local CVS drug store I briefly mentioned to a lady next to me in the check-out line how flu shots were all risk and no benefit (of course, Flu shot promotions were displayed everywhere).

Her brief, polite response was she was terrified of getting the flu, so she always gets the shot(s). Unfortunately this is typical; our Medical System led by the CDC has obviously done a marvelous job of brainwashing over the decades.

At any rate, here's a reference from Vaccine Papers that unequivocally shows the dangers and uselessness of flu shots - and the flu shots so evaluated did NOT contain (best I can tell) Thimerosal with its 25 micrograms of ethylmercury. Please pass it on.

https://vaccinepapers.org/influenza-vaccine-immune-suppression/#disqus_thread

Introvert

Link for the Khatami article Hans mentions below. Funny, it was impossible to find on my regular Web browser -- I had to use Duckduckgo: https://clintransmed.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40169-016-0126-1

Hans Litten

Linda1 | December 07, 2016 at 02:31 PM

I am fighting a one man war here and Cia is conceding the case for some vaccinations .
And others on our side are doing that too .
All vaccinations are rubbish and a crime against humanity .There is no defence .
Call it paranoid if you like , but I was coerced against my better (and as it turns out superior)judgement into allowing my child to be vaccinated 8/9 years ago and the price I have paid for that weakness on my part is a very heavy one (my child has suffered immeasurably). So I cannot listen to anyone in our world (or theirs) making any case for the fraud they call "vaccination" -
I call it "extermination" .


https://healthimpactnews.com/2016/hpv-vaccine-scam-nih-scientist-exposes-corruption-in-cancer-and-vaccine-industries/

Dr. Mahin Khatami has written a scathing commentary on the HPV vaccine that was published this month (December 2016) in the journal Clinical and Translational Medicine. The title is: “Safety concerns and hidden agenda behind HPV vaccines: another generation of drug-dependent society?”

Dr. Khatami’s bio is quite extensive, and as a retired professor and former program director at both the National Institutes of Health (NIH) and National Cancer Institute (NCI), her criticisms of both the cancer and vaccine industries cannot easily be written off as the work of a “quack,” which is the standard response from the medical industry who seeks to discredit anyone who does not tow the party line.

Barry

I think that's a great basic meme, and WOULD save a lot of babies. I'd say Hib series after four months old and DT series after two years old.

**************

So....wait until they're older to poison them???

Greta

I too usually tell parent about the dangers of vaccines and suggest that if they vaccinate use the SHOTS method. I also warn that if their child receives an antibiotic use pro-biotics and wait at least 4 to 6 weeks after before giving any shots. I believe, for my child, that the antibiotic given around birth, due to a possible infection, fouled up his gut and then he was unable to handle the mercury leaden shots.

Jeannette Bishop

Tim, you may have saved a few generations. Hope you find/found your phone cover (sometimes I get a little obsessive-compulsive about some details)!

Hans, I'm almost 100%-equal-opportunity-for-people-getting-on-my-suspicious-list, and right now I think that probably just means I'm quite a lot more cynical than someone like Cia seems to be.

Linda1

I would go with the only good vaccine is the one not given. If it's too hazardous to shoot into the sink, why inject it into your child?

Hans,
You're getting paranoid now. Cia is no plant.

david m burd

Tim, Yes - I also bring up quite quickly sometimes the severe dangers of vaccines to new, or pending, parents, and usually have a receptive audience. Of course, a significant percentage also quickly say good-bye.

I HAVE found over the last couple years that giving a parent (or pending parent) the colorful rendition of the 2011 Child Immunization Schedule (typical for the last 15 years, plus/minus some minor variations); and IT ALWAYS gets a "wake-up moment" and the typical response of never having seen it.

Everybody can pull up this classic, horrific Schedule by just entering "cdc child immunization schedule 2011" in their search engines. and then printing out this colorful Horror (also, try the same search words but with different years to maybe get an easier graphic to print out -- then make copies to hand out).

Thanks, Tim for all you do.

Hans Litten

Cia I am convinced now you are a Pharma plant and I've had enough of you .

 ciaparker

I think that's a great basic meme, and WOULD save a lot of babies. I'd say Hib series after four months old and DT series after two years old. And Aviva Jill Romm Vaccinations. (With info on caring for typical cases of childhood diseases at home and symptoms of serious complications which a doctor needs to see.) Hard to compress the minimum needed to a short meme. I'd try to add that the Hib could cause peanut allergy in one in fifty, and breastfeeding for at least one year, preferably two, lets you skip the Hib. And keep baby out of daycare for at least a year, and away from large groups of children. Hmm, already exceeded meme length, but not THAT long.

Sally Rubin

Great! Easy to remember. Thanks.

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