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Autism, Flu Shots and the Fable of Mercury and Pregnancy Safety

Baby mercuryManaging Editor's Note: You've likely seen the media flurry that spins fever during pregnancy into "flu shots may prevent autism."  No mention of the mercury in the flu shots of course.  Below is a post we ran back in 2009 - that dispels the notion that flu vaccination has been properly tested in pregnant women. Did you have a flu shot while pregnant? Tell us in the comments.

By Jim Thompson

The CDC and FDA are still telling stories about how thimerosal, which contains 50 percent mercury and is a known neurotoxin, is safe for pregnant women in flu vaccines.  The reference for this fable is Heinonen, Shapiro, Monson et al from 1973. 

"Is it safe for pregnant women to receive an influenza vaccine that contains thimerosal?  Yes. A study of influenza vaccination examining over 2,000 pregnant women demonstrated no adverse fetal effects associated with influenza vaccine."  See CDC and FDA, 2008.

Apparently this fiction was previously published in 2004 by the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices. 

One study of influenza vaccination of over 2,000 pregnant women demonstrated no adverse fetal effects associated with influenza vaccine.”

Ayoub and Yazbak exposed this whopper in “Influenza Vaccination During Pregnancy: A Critical Assessment of the Recommendations of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP).”

“This solitary safety study, by Heinonen et al., has in fact very little to do with the safety of influenza vaccination. The reported outcomes were strictly limited to malignancies, mostly after polio vaccination during pregnancy.”  Ibid.   

Apparently the bologna was also served in 2006 in a paper by Naleway.  The references included Heinonen, Shapiro, Monson et al 1973 and Heinonen, Sloan, and Shapiro et al 1976.

“Over 2,000 pregnant women received inactivated influenza vaccine as part of the Collaborative Perinatal Project, a longitudinal population-based study conducted in the 1960s. Maternal vaccination during pregnancy was not associated with fetal malformations, cognitive or neurologic disabilities, or childhood cancers during 7 years of follow-up with this cohort (30, 31).”  See Naleway, 2006 .

And Ayoub and Yazbak exposed this phony claim as well. 

Heinonen et al. (13, 14) recorded birth defects, but not fetal viability, and actually reported an increased risk of several specific birth defects (cleft palate, microcephaly, pyloric stenosis) associated with prenatal influenza vaccine exposure as well as increases in malformations following exposures to the vaccine preservative thimerosal.”

So CDC and FDA please spare us the tall tales.   The truth is it has not been proven safe for pregnant women to receive an influenza vaccine that contains thimerosal!  

Jim Allen Thompson

Comments

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I had the Pandemic 1 H1N1 vaccine when I was pregnant for a swine flu pandemic that never materialised. My son has autism. I doubt I'll ever know if this was the cause for sure but I will feel guilty and regretful as hell for the rest of my days. I was so naive to think I could trust the NHS to know what was best. I think we do that more in the UK, it being public funded and a stalwart of our country. In the absence of any existing medical conditions I would trust nature next time, shame I'm too tired looking after one autistic child to have another.

Vicki G;
With daughters sometimes we don't know what to look for - problems can be there and ignored.

Hi Vicky G,
Also please consider if and when you started using wi-fi in your house and workplace and your use of a cell phone and/or laptop during this last pregnancy. All these things give off electromagnetic and/or radiofrequency energy and are not safe especially during pregnancy. Wi-fi in the home and cell phone use during pregnancy are both known to be linked to behavioral problems in children. We are in the early stages of the use of these technologies, ahead of adequate standards that will eventually come out, one can only hope. Until then, please consider turning off the wi-fi in your home and minimize your cell phone use anywhere near your children (within many feet and never in the car as the radiation exposure is magnified as it is bounced off the walls of the car). It is very possible that the vaccines you and your children received have caused what you're seeing, but please also consider these other exposures that are new, increasing and inadequately tested.

I have a daughter (born 2001), and 2 sons (born 2010 and 2011. My son born in 2010 has speech delays but with extensive therapy has improved somewhat, still not near where a 4 year old should be. He has major sensory issues, is hyper active, and behavior issues. Before 8 months old, he seemed to be a normal happy baby and developing just fine. Then he had some more vaccines and he hasn't been the same since. So I have been doing some research. I realized he was the only one I had an H1N1 flu vaccine with. All my children are vaccinated. My daughter had a very slight speech impairment, she is fine now. My 2nd son has no delays. I do think some vaccines are important but now a days they seem to have so many more that they push on you. With the spike in Autism of course we want answers and if vaccines are not the cause, there definitely is an environmental factor at play. Parents need to trust their gut and do what they feel is right for their children. Obviously we cant escape all the dangers in our environment but we can keep it to a minimum. I of course cant know at this point if it was the H1N1 vaccine that has caused these issues in my son but it is the only difference between all 3 pregnancies.

I have a daughter who fell ill at 6 months with a seizure from her shots, this was back in 94. Since then she is epileptic,ADHD,autistic with moderate delays. We were told to not get the regular DPT shot after that but noone said anything about the flu shot. She gets one every year because the flu would be bad for her. However, she has been degrading in behavior and I now wonder if its from the flu shot. Also...I was pregnant back in 2011 miraculously at 38. My pregnancy was great, no problems, testing was all normal. At 17 weeks, at the urging of my doctor, I recieved a flu shot and my first one EVER. At my next appt at 20 weeks we were to be finding out the sex of the baby, instead, no heartbeat. We were devastated. After measuring the baby during ultrasound they found that it had passed at week 17 sometime after my last appt. Hmm....i felt in my gut that it was the flu shot. So I had to deliver and had numerous tests done on me and the fetus, they could find nothing wrong. To this day I swear it was the shot. I will die believing it was the shot.

EmiliaElise,
SSPE can be caused by either the vaccine or the natural disease, but is fortunately very rare. It used to be that all women had had measles before they got pregnant, and were able to protect their babies in their first year when measles might be dangerous to them with placental immunity and breastfeeding. If you give any shot to anyone, there's a good chance that it will severely damage them. I actually don't hesitate to tell anyone who will listen that the vaccines are much more dangerous than the diseases for most people most of the time. And then they are free to make their choices. I would not be honest or compassionate if I said anything less than the truth, though. And vitamin A prevents complications from measles, vitamin C from pertussis. Everyone should know that.

Sarah,
Yes, the H1N1 flu shot, like any flu shot, like most shots, period, can cause autism, with or without mercury. I have a friend in Salt Lake City I met at Shot of Prevention whose older daughter was forced to take the H1N1 shot by her preschool that fateful fall of '09. She had been normal, talking, etc. etc., but immediately regressed into autism and bowel disease. She was three at the time, beyond the standard age of developing autism.

An a registered nurse, I totally bought into all the vaccines and blindly trusted the CDC and powers that be. Now, I am the total opposite. I received the seasonal flu shot from a multi dose vial (thiomersal) in Oct 2006, 2 weeks before my son was born. He is 7 years old and suffers from autism, is mildly MRDD, has a speech delay, severe, ridiculous food allergies, sever eczema which has improved, and asthma which he has been hospitalized for. I was sure to give him all his vaccines too during his first 3 years of life before we knew he had autism and found our about other possible contributing factors (like vaccines). I thought I was careful during my pregnancy and our family doesn't have any significant history for those conditions. I will never get the flu shot again and neither will my son or husband. Total bullshit. We've also abstained from several other vaccines just because the US vaccine schedule is so insanely overzealous. The Flu shot is total propaganda and just a cash cow for big Pharma.

Hello my name is sarah I really need to know if this is true does the h1n1 vaccine cause autism because I got that shot when I was pregnant with my son and now at 3 yrs old we find out he has autism omg hope not but really need to know this.....

Who can say for sure whether the flu vaccine (or any vaccine) "causes" autism? All I know is that when I was pregnant with my son in 2006/2007, I had the flu shot. He was diagnosed with ASD at the age of 2 in 2009. When I was pregnant with my daughter in 2008/2009, I opted not to receive the flu shot and actually ended up contracting the flu and spending several days in the hospital. However, my daughter is now 3 and showing no signs whatsoever of ASD. I am now pregnant with my 3rd child and will NOT be receiving the flu shot. I would rather risk getting sick myself than risk my unborn child be exposed to whatever all is actually in that shot.

I received the H1N1 flu vaccine while I was pregnant in 2009/2010. Don't know if it has anything to do with it or not but my son was recently diagnosed with Autism and we believe on the way for ADD and/or ADHD.

The mainstream press drones touting are touting a new study on this issue just published in the NEJM. If you look at the actual study, you will find no science was done at all, just a statistical investigation of whether or not a baby died if the mother got a flu shot during pregnancy. This was the only adverse outcome measured to assure the world of the absolute safety of flu shots. No investigation was done on the subsequent health outcomes of these babies and whether such infants had a subsequent increased risk of ASD's, asthma, bowel diseases, cognitive development. So the bottom line is the flu shot probably won't kill your unborn child, and whatever happens to him or her later in life because of that flu shot doesn't count....

Where are those studies that show that flu vaccines are safe for the unborn babies (Fetuses)???? I could not find any!!!
Show me the evidence.Show me the number of miscarriages!!!
There is no study done. How is it safe for the unborn when
their livers,kidneys and blood brain barriers are immature???
What emulsifiers are they/pHarma using? Is it going through the placenta??? Where is the informed choice discussion about the ingredients and the side effects? How many people had adverse effects so far??? How many paralyzed so far???What else is in the vaccines???
Show us the numbers.Give us the evidence.At which gestational week do they need the vaccine???
I say no,NO vaccines for pregnant women. No,thanks.

UPDATE
The point of this post in 2009, as many of you have already stated in comments here, was in regard to the lack of safety evaluation by the CDC and FDA in regard to flu vaccines for pregnant women. The example here is the misuse of studies by Heinonen et al to support a general statement that the flu shot is safe for pregnant women.

See Heinonen, O.P., Sloan, D., and Shapiro, S., “Birth Defects and Drugs in Pregnancy,” page 436, 1977.

And this misuse continues today. Look at this Question and Answer published by the FDA: “Is it safe for pregnant women to receive an influenza vaccine that contains thimerosal? Yes. A study of influenza vaccination examining over 2,000 pregnant women demonstrated no adverse fetal effects associated with influenza vaccine.”
http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/QuestionsaboutVaccines/UCM070430
And this from the CDC: “What research shows that seasonal flu vaccine is safe for unborn babies? Studies of several thousand pregnant women in scientific literature have assessed the safety of using the flu vaccine during pregnancy. These studies have shown no evidence of harm to pregnant women, to the unborn child (or fetus) or to newborns of vaccinated women.”
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/qa_vacpregnant.htm

However these studies by Heinonen et al do not show it is safe. In fact they indicate a 10 percent increase of a risk of a child being born with malformations.

Even more troubling is the fact that CDC and FDA refer to Heinonen et al (page 435) when they actually found that use of Thimerosal antimicrobial topical by pregnant women indicated a three times higher risk of a child being born with a malformation.

For more information about this topical containing mercury, which is neurotoxic, see Geier, D.A., Sykes, L.R., and Geier, M.R., “ A Review of Thimerosal (Merthiolate) and Its Ethyl mercury Breakdown Product, Specific Historical Considerations Regarding Safety and Effectiveness,” (2007).

http://www.natuurarts.nl/antiviraal/downloads/071130_geier_etal_publishedreviewofthimerosalp.pdf

Where do you start Barry, 'cause I think its you who is dismissing facts. So an extra shot of MMR, its not going to affect the results 90% immune-conversion rate per shot of MMR, so 90% immunity with 1, 99% with 2 doses of MMR and 99.9% immunity with 3, thats why they give 2 doses of MMR. Anyway its not those that were immunized you want to worry about its the 97% incidence of measles in those that were UNimmunized!
Conspiracy and age?? Well no the incidence is highest in the under 1's, a breakdown of herd immunity protecting those too young to be immunized:
http://www.invs.sante.fr/Dossiers-thematiques/Maladies-infectieuses/Maladies-a-prevention-vaccinale/Rougeole/Points-d-actualites/Archives/Epidemie-de-rougeole-en-France.-Actualisation-des-donnees-de-surveillance-au-19-octobre-2012
Note the geographical distribution and the relative patterns of vaccine coverage:
http://www.infectiologie.com/site/medias/JNI/JNI12/2012-JNI-rougeole-corbin.pdf

Conspiracy, well apart from all the various French health authorities conspiring you'll need to add the Germans who documented outbreaks around Steiner schools who don't vaccinate and the Dutch as well, the 2 cases of SSPE were in German children.

Just how big a conspiracy are you putting forward Barry, and who coordinated this conspiracy? On the other hand perhaps its just true, vaccination does keep measles under control, lack of herd immunity does lead to the young and vulnerable coming down with the disease.

******************

You do realize that herd immunity is a non scientific myth. And that epidemiology is not a science, but rather a tool that can sometimes be used to verify a scientific hypothesis, depending of course on how it is used, who is using it, and uh.... how the results are interpreted by the user.

As the old saying goes " "Epidemiology is like a bikini. What is revealed is interesting. What is concealed is crucial"

Either way Eindeker, the bottom line is that you have yet to provide the one thing I asked for. Which is irrefutable scientific proof that any vaccine has ever prevented a disease of any kind. And the reason you keep dancing around it, is that you know it doesn't exist.

How ironic, that you call me anti-science


Eindeker

The thread was not about measles either, but I was pointing out that if you are really concerned about the spread of infectious diseases then the people running the programme seem to have lost their grasp of even their own fundamentals. The two non-injected vaccines I mentioned pose a significant hazard - if you are really worried infection, don't use these. The advertising copy is the prediction of the number of lives saved, but even if some lives are saved is it a good way to save life if others are killed or hurt as a result. For instance, the comment I quoted about rotavirus vaccine - can you imagine how common such an occurence might be in third world conditions?

Also, you ignored the issue of non-disclosure in the article you cited.

Dear John, you're thrashing around: I didn't emote about vaccinated individuals succumbing because of unvaccinated people spreading disease,I was using the measles epidemic with 97% of cases in people with <2 courses of MMR, to demonstrate that properly administered MMR does control measles, can I make it clearer than that, and, as a consequence stop the spread of this disease, unfortunately in this outbreak the breakdown in herd immunity does mean some neonates have succumbed to the disease and died, looks like 50% in the French study are under 1 year old.
You go off on a complete tangent about rota & flu viruses, I answered you quite clearly commenting I will far more vigorously support the use of vaccines such as MMR, HiB etc for more life-threatening infectious disease, what isn't clear to you?

Then you go in for a little name calling John "you were talking about advertising copy masquerading as science", care to point out where I use advertising copy John, everything I've quoted are hard statistics and just for the total avoidance of any doubt John I have no conflicts of interest, whatever you may think, never had any connection in any shape or form with the vaccine industry.

So at the risk of repeating myself John "Now in the spirit of mutual openess what's your take on the European measles outbreak, is it all nonsense & a conspiacy, as with Barry, or will you admit that it's an unintentional, but very powerful, demonstration on the dangers of letting herd immunity slip, or is "I am not particularly hostile to the possibility that measles vaccination reduces the rate of SSPE as such" as close as you dare go?"

Care to answer??

Eindeker

No, that isn't an answer to any of the points. You emote about a vaccinated person dying because of anunvaccinated person, but when I raise the issue of vaccines which cause the subject to shed infectious diseases, possibly in the direction of vulnerable people you resort to airy fairy claims about the lives which will be saved. I was talking about something factual and you were talking about advertising copy masquerading as science. And when it comes to Elizabeth Miller's failures of disclosure again there is silence. What about yours?

Eindeker,
Out of the thirty thousand who had measles in Europe last year, twelve of them died, something like fifteen more had probably permanent brain damage. The vast majority completely recovered, with permanent immunity, the way virtually all children did when I had it at the age of six. Good nursing does make a difference, bedrest in a darkened room, adequate hydration, vitamin A therapy in severe cases and complete avoidance of fever reducers like Tylenol. Why should this epidemic influence a parent's decision whether or not to take the risk of getting the MMR for their children? I refused it for mine: I have no fear of any of the three diseases, but a great fear of the adverse events often caused by the MMR. Dr. Halvorsen in his book on vaccines said that the measles vaccine and the MMR were a really hard sell in Great Britain in the 1980s, because all parents were familiar with measles, had had it themselves, and did not fear it. He described several cases of adverse reactions to it, and said that if it caused even a fraction of the autism cases now seen, as it apparently did, then it should absolutely be avoided.

No John just that work got in the way, & BTW no-one had mentioned flu & rota. I haven't strong feelings about rota, apparently it will save 15000 hospitalizations of kids each year in the UK, experience in the US is reported as:
"there were 89 percent fewer rotavirus-specific hospitalizations in children who had gotten the vaccine compared to unvaccinated children.

Diarrhea causes by rotavirus is one of the most common illnesses in children. It's usually self-limited and treated at home, but before the vaccine was introduced, the virus was responsible for about 200,000 emergency room visits and 400,000 physician office visits a year,"

Flu certainly seems beneficial in pregnant women, don't know about other data, as I said John careful how you label people, I'll certainly vigorously defend the use of MMR, Meningo C, Diphtheria, HiB, Tetanus & other vaccines against serious life threatening illnesses that have been eliminated by vaccination and along the way point out nonsense when it is stated as fact.

Now in the spirit of mutual openess what's your take on the European measles outbreak, is it all nonsense & a conspiacy, as with Barry, or will you admit that it's an unintentional, but very powerful, demonstration on the dangers of letting herd immunity slip, or is "I am not particularly hostile to the possibility that measles vaccination reduces the rate of SSPE as such" as close as you dare go?

Eindeke
Vaccines cause austism.
It caused it in mine.
I was lead to believe for years that we won some lottery that was as rare as being struck by lighting 20 times straight in a row.
That was untrue.
It is witnessed by parents and reported by parents -- the care givers of the next generation of children.
That is about the bottem line.

The rest of the stuff is nothing more than smoke and mirrors.

Hi Eindeker

I notice you walked away from my last comments to you here.

Where do you start Barry, 'cause I think its you who is dismissing facts. So an extra shot of MMR, its not going to affect the results 90% immune-conversion rate per shot of MMR, so 90% immunity with 1, 99% with 2 doses of MMR and 99.9% immunity with 3, thats why they give 2 doses of MMR. Anyway its not those that were immunized you want to worry about its the 97% incidence of measles in those that were UNimmunized!
Conspiracy and age?? Well no the incidence is highest in the under 1's, a breakdown of herd immunity protecting those too young to be immunized:
http://www.invs.sante.fr/Dossiers-thematiques/Maladies-infectieuses/Maladies-a-prevention-vaccinale/Rougeole/Points-d-actualites/Archives/Epidemie-de-rougeole-en-France.-Actualisation-des-donnees-de-surveillance-au-19-octobre-2012
Note the geographical distribution and the relative patterns of vaccine coverage:
http://www.infectiologie.com/site/medias/JNI/JNI12/2012-JNI-rougeole-corbin.pdf

Conspiracy, well apart from all the various French health authorities conspiring you'll need to add the Germans who documented outbreaks around Steiner schools who don't vaccinate and the Dutch as well, the 2 cases of SSPE were in German children.

Just how big a conspiracy are you putting forward Barry, and who coordinated this conspiracy? On the other hand perhaps its just true, vaccination does keep measles under control, lack of herd immunity does lead to the young and vulnerable coming down with the disease.

".... Bernadetta & Barry just because you don't like the facts don't dismiss them, in the last 2-3 years in Europe ther has been a measles outbreak, infecting the best part of 30000 individuals. the French examined the detailed vaccine records of 5000 cases, only 3% of these had received 2 courses of MMR, so that in itself is compelling evidence that MMR vaccination does prevent measles Barry...."

****************

Kinda hard to dismiss facts, when you have yet to present any. How do you know that 97% of those 5000 French didn't receive MORE than 2 MMR vaccines? Or they weren't carefully selected from a group that were fully vaccinated against measles, but were simply too old to have received the MMR? Or that their vaccine records were even accurate or up to date ? Or that the 3 % represents honest reporting from the French medical authorities?? They lie like thieves in this neck of the woods ... why the hell should we anything different from the French medical authorities?

If anything, the information you've presented is compelling evidence that vaccine efficacy has everything to do with cherry picked data, and nothing whatsoever to do with scientific fact.

If you really want to make a case for the value of vaccines, then provide us with irrefutable SCIENTIFIC PROOF that any vaccine has ever prevented a disease of any kind.

Shouldn't be that hard .... should it???

Dear Hera, perhaps the authors of the later publication did not include the report of MIBE because, as you are probably aware this is a different disease from SSPE.
MIBE occurs in immuno-deficient individuals with no inflammatory response in the brain tissue, and has a much quicker clinical course than SSPE which is not predicated on the individual being immuno-compromised. The quoted rate of MIBE is 1 in 10 individuals who are immunocompromised & who catch wild type measles, so one has to ask how would the individuals identified in case reports have fared in a no-vaccination situation with endemic measles, not very well I'm afraid.

Clearly immuno-compromised individuals should not be vaccinated with live virus, but then back to my questiopn Hera what is your choice, no vaccination, endemic measles & high rates of SSPE?

Hi Eindeker; thank you for your repsonse.
The case of MIBE was indeed caused by the vaccine version of the virus.
So the answer can death be caused by the measles vaccine has already been answered in the affirmative.
( Another study on disemminated measles in an immunocompromised boy also checked and identified the vaccine virus.)
Yet despite this, the study authors failed to mention these deaths from the measles vaccine version of the virus.
If they were able to identify wild measles in the cases of vaccinated SSPE, that would certainly be valid and useful.

Instead it is already scientifically recognised that the vaccine virus can cause deaths, but somehow the study authors decided not to check whether it also did so in these cases.
( If there is a study that I am missing that shows wild measles virus in these vaccinated cases of SSPE, please let me know.)
Otherwise, it just seems an assumption based on lack of science, and perhaps wishful thinking.

By the way, Passionless Drone has an interesting discussion on his blog that looks at glial priming in the brain, and immune factors.

I understand your concern about the need for vaccines, but I think that unfortunately that argument has been used to stifle the science, because people are too afraid of the consequences of telling the truth.
If we don't acknowledge injury; how can we prevent it?
How can we make something safer if we pretend nothing ever goes wrong?
If we do discover that brain damage can result in autism from vaccines, how would that skew your risk benefit analysis?
The fact is that in at least the two case studies I described, the vaccine was a death sentence.
And again , you may want to look up what happens when children with undiagnosed severe immunodeficiency get vaccinated with live virus vaccines.
So from your stance, some of the children that you insist must be vaccinated; will die because of this.
i'm assuming you don't really want that to happen. But the only way to stop it is to actually identify why some children die from the vaccine. You can't do that if you hide the fact that it happens, or demand that everyone gets the shot, regardless of whether or not they are at risk of dying from it.

Hera, no you're not mis-stating my position but thank you for the opportunity to correct this. You quoted from a 1989 paper my statement is based on the 2007 review of many publications where they examined the genomes of isolates, your earlier study just refers to vaccinated individuals getting SSPE, without any genetic analysis, as an Israeli study commented the numbers are consistent with the known failure rate for MMR vaccination of 1-3%, to quote the 2007 study:
"Although measles virus has only one serotype, significant
diversity of the genome exists, eight clades (A–H) and 23
genotypes are recognized, based on the sequence of the
carboxyl region of the N gene, or the full sequence of the H
gene.6 All measles vaccine strains are genotype A.84 There have been no cases of SSPE in whom measles vaccine virus has been isolated, and reviewing the published N or H sequences (or with genotype information; Table 4), genotype A has been identified in only two cases (Halle, Horta-Babosa and Mantooth are almost certainly the same isolate passaged in different labs,with the published Halle sequence representing laboratory contamination85)."

Whereas your earlier paper just refers to a changing proportion of vaccinated:unvaccinated individuals developing SSPE, hardly suprising considering the increasing vaccination rate, it does not say vaccination causes SSPE
"Corresponding to this decrease is an increase in the proportion of cases following measles vaccination."

Re the Israeli study looking at cases in vaccinated individuals:
" An Israeli study examined the expected number of SSPE cases in vaccinated individuals born between 1966 and 1971 using coverage rates and estimates of vaccine effectiveness.10 All four vaccinated cases of SSPE observed in this cohort could be accounted for by the fact that the vaccine was not 100% effective."

But at the end Hera what do you want: no vaccination, everyone gets measles, with a higher number of SSPE cases, or MMR vaccination, very low incidence of measles and <10% of the SSPE cases, whats your choice?

Eindeker

You didn't mention rotavirus or flu but you did mention the risk of the vaccinated from the unvaccinated so it was a legitimate issue (note that the article was nothing to do with measles or SSPE in the first place).

I note that the paper you cite about SSPE relates to all measles vaccination not just MMR. Obviously, I am historically a little sceptical about Andrews and Miller:

http://www.jabs.org.uk/pages/mercuryautismuk.asp

http://www.vaclib.org/sites/vap/pediatrics-validated-erroneous-mercury-data-20070327.htm

I am not particularly hostile to the possibility that measles vaccination reduces the rate of SSPE as such, but are you perhaps agreeing with me that the nasal flu and rotavirus vaccination projects are unwise?

PS In 2001-2 Miller disclosed as competing interests funding from SKB (latterly GSK), Aventis Pasteur (latterly Sanofi who are in partnership with Merck), Wyeth, Baxter and North American Vaccine, but usually she has failed to declare such matters (as in this case in 2007): " Conflict of Interest: None declared". Is this remotely credible?

Einderker;
it might have been better if you actually read what I said..
ie ;to quote from my comment
One study suggests that overall rates have gone down now,but there is now an increase in cases related to the measles vaccine.
What did I base that on?
Changing Character of Subacute Sclerosing Panencephlitis in the United States
"The most striking feature of the data is the rapid decline in SSPE incidence.Corresponding to this decrease is an increase in the portion of cases following measles vaccination.There is also a shorter incubation period for SSPE following vaccination than after measles infection."

Were you aware that measles vaccination can also result in SPPE?
If so your own comments really should have acknowledged that. If you didn't know..well now you do.
What are your views on the case history that I quoted? For soemeone who seems to feel that everyone should always get the measles vaccine, the fact that the vaccine can in some cases cause the death of a child would seem to be relevant. ( If I am mistating your position and you don't actually feel that everyone should always get vaccinated, please let me know.)

If I can reply en masse:
Bernadetta & Barry just because you don't like the facts don't dismiss them, in the last 2-3 years in Europe ther has been a measles outbreak, infecting the best part of 30000 individuals. the French examined the detailed vaccine records of 5000 cases, only 3% of these had received 2 courses of MMR, so that in itself is compelling evidence that MMR vaccination does prevent measles Barry, as for Bernadetta's "What are the odddddddddddddddddddddsss. What would you say like getting hit by lighting 20 times straight, or being hit by a meteor" well no its much lower, the 2007 study, before the current outbreak in Europe, showed the odds of SSPE developing were about 1 in every 6000 cases if kids got measles under 1, going up to 1 in 100000 cases in older children, so in an outbreak of 30000 odd cases its quite reasonable to expect 1 or 2 cases of SSPE, not a " bunch of bull" at all.

John don't be so free with your labels, I'm not necessarily a vaccine apologist but just pointing out factual errors, I didn't mention rotavirus or flu, but perhaps you'd care to comment on the issue I commented on re SSPE & the current European outbreak of measle with a dozen or so deaths plus the 2 cases of SSPE focused in unvaccinated individuals

As a vaccine industry apologist I wonder how Eindeker explains such products as nasal flu vaccines (now to be recommended for all UK schoolchildren) and rotavirus vaccines which have a significant potential for shedding the diseases they are meant to protect against and could expose the immunologically compromised? Given the very poor history of predicting the right influenza strains the programme seems to be creating an unnecessary hazard in that instance. If you are going to go around blaming the unvaccinated for putting the vaccinated at risk (O ye of little faith!) what about the reverse possibility?

I quote a recent comment about rotavirus and the vaccine in the Daily Telegraph:

'Our youngest son ended up in hospital with dehydration with this lovely bug when he was 3 weeks old, he contracted it from his cousin who was on his first visit from America, mum and dad didn't bother telling us he has just been vaccinated, and so he would be infectious for 21 days. Its just lovely seeing your new born in NICU for two weeks because someone values their own convenience so highly.'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9666536/Babies-to-be-vaccinated-against-stomach-bug-from-next-year-Department-of-Health.html

If we end up thinking that this is about government-industry cronyism, and not about the safety and welfare of our children, are we really to be blamed?

" .... The other case is in a 13-year-old girl who died in October. It is thought that she developed measles as an infant after being exposed to an unvaccinated 11-year-old boy at her doctor's office."
http://pediatrics.about.com/od/measles/a/measles-outbreak.htm .........."

********************


Eindecker,

"it is thought" that she developed measles as an infant after being exposed to an unvaccinated 11-year-old boy at her doctor's office ?????

Is that really what you (... and the 'experts' at pediatrics) are calling " absolutely incontravertible evidence" of MMR efficacy ???

Please tell me, that I didn't sacrifice my child's future for a vaccine who's efficacy has been propped up by evidence as weak as this !

Trade Unions need to start getting involved and standing up for the people (against forced vaccinations) . Like they always used to !

like on one of the stories linked in to this one - at the Univ. of Wisconsin

Eindeker
What a bunch of bull!
All the kids being vaccinated and these guys runs into those few unvaccinated children.
On top of that they get a very rare diseae that was not at all commone in the first place.

What are the odddddddddddddddddddddsss. What would you say like getting hit by lighting 20 times straight, or being hit by a meteor.

.

Okay, here is something to think about...

The recently publicized Danish study results suggesting that women who get flu during pregnancy are more likely to give birth to children later diagnosed with autism could be actual, true results...but, if so, we need to understand why this might be...

Mercury is known to alter immunity...meaning those who are already mercury toxic (likely including those who get vaccinated with mercury containing shots), may be more likely to get sick with flu.

Mercury and other heavy metals reduce one's ability to excrete mercury, and other heavy metals such as lead increase the toxicity of mercury.

Stress is known to reduce both immunity and the body's ability to excrete mercury.

People who get sick are more likely to take tylenol--which reduces the body's ability to excrete mercury.

People who get sick are more likely to take antibiotics--which reduce the body's ability to excrete mercury.

Ergo, pregnant women who get sick with flu during pregnancy, also may be the same individuals who were:

-already mercury or other heavy metal toxic?
-vaccinated during pregnancy with mercury and/or aluminum containing shots?
-under more stress?
-took tylenol while pregnant?
-took antibiotics while pregnant?
-all of the above?

Due to any or all of these factors, these women may have been more likely to have had, or ended up with, high mercury body burdens (due to prior exposures and/or retaining more mercury from all their exposures to it during pregnancy--e.g. seafood, other foods, amalgam fillings, broken lightbulbs, broken gauges, broken thermometers, old latex paint, wild fire smoke, coal fired power plant pollution, etc. etc. etc. )

The higher the mercury burden in a mom, the more mercury ends up in her unborn child, and also the more is later transmitted to the infant via nursing.

Hence, women who get flu during pregnancy are more likely to be, or have become, mercury toxic, and thus more likely to give birth to mercury-toxic children (aka children with autism)

than women who did NOT get flu (or other illnesses) during pregnancy.

This is as good an explanation/hypothesis to explain the results as any other. Unfortunately, for some reason (T.I.C.), they didn't didn't do any tests for mercury body burden in the study subjects....

Hera I'm afraid you are just wrong re SSPE incidence and measles, suggesting an increased risk from measles vaccination compared to that in an an unvaccinated population, see http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/36/6/1334.full a review in 2007 clearly showin a rapid decline in SSPE cases with the introduction of measles vaccine.
"The risk was estimated as 18/100 000 in under ones down to 1.1/100 000 for infection at age 5 plus. No change in risk following measles infection over time was found, controlling for age at infection. The risk due to vaccine, assuming all vaccinated cases with no history of natural infection were due to vaccine, was estimated as 0.14/100 000"
Yet again in the recent measles epidemic in Europe there were 2 cases of SSPE post measles infection including one of a child too young to have been vaccinated catching measels from an unvaccinated boy "One of the cases is in a six-year-old girl who had developed measles when she was seven-months-old and too young to get an MMR vaccine. Although she was only just diagnosed in October, she is already unable to walk and talk and has to be fed via a gastric tube.

The other case is in a 13-year-old girl who died in October. It is thought that she developed measles as an infant after being exposed to an unvaccinated 11-year-old boy at her doctor's office."
http://pediatrics.about.com/od/measles/a/measles-outbreak.htm
Please don't convey incorrect information Hera, whatever you may think about the MMR there is absolutely incontravertible evidence that the incidence of SSPE has declined dramatically with measles control

One more article
Measles Inclusion Body Encephalitis Caused by the Vaccine Strain of the Measles Virus"
"We report a case of measles inclusion body encephalitis MIBE occuring in an apparently healthy 21 month old boy 8.5 months after measles-mumps -rubella vaccination."
Apparently "The nucleotide sequence....was identical to that of the Moraten and Schwarz vaccine strains.

The genotype of wild measles is different, so they could tell if the cause was wild measles or the vaccine..

What that means is that 81/2 months after vaccination, the child reacted to the vaccine virus.
(MIBE normally results in death in about three years).

Unless your personal story is a counter-example to an absolute claim (such a "no one who gets a flu shot will ever get autism"...something never said by anyone) your personal experience is utterly, 100% irrelevant to scientific discussion. If you don't understand this much about science please go back to school before a) posting comments or b) having children. It's this kind of scary, counter-scientific thinking that holds back progress.

********************

OK, so lets do take the vaccine argument into the realm of science.

And lets start it with YOU producing irrefutable scientific proof that ANY vaccine has ever prevented a disease of any kind. Complete with an explanation of why whatever you decide to produce, should be accepted as scientific proof.

Good luck with that


EmeliaElise; firstly I am very sorry for the family whose children died from SSPE.
Unfortunately, people who never had measles but have been vaccinated can develop the same illness, and also other fatal reactions to the measles vaccine.There are cases in the literature; one study suggests that overall cases have gone down, but that there is now an increase in cases related to the measles vaccine.

Here is a case you may find sad, but interesting.
"Measles vaccinated Isreali boy with subacute sclerosing panecephalitis"
From the abstract;
We describe a 16 year old boy who manifested the disease despite the proper vaccinations..The patient became comatose with generalized myoclonic jerks and died 1 year later"

I hope the boy who had the measles vaccine reaction continues to stay safe.I'll add him and his family to my prayers tonight.

On this topic though,you might also be interested in the fact that live virus vaccines can be fatal or dangerous for some people with certain types of undiagnosed primary immunodeficiency.Discovering the problem after they are vaccinated may be too late for some.


I am certainly not giving advice to anybody. But I don't think that you have a right to dictate to other people what risks they should take with their children either.
To vaccinate or not; either way that is a choice for the parent to make.

If they couldn't scare people with the dreaded flu virus enough to get their shots...they knew they could scare them enough with autism!

Unless your personal story is a counter-example to an absolute claim (such a "no one who gets a flu shot will ever get autism"...something never said by anyone) your personal experience is utterly, 100% irrelevant to scientific discussion. If you don't understand this much about science please go back to school before a) posting comments or b) having children. It's this kind of scary, counter-scientific thinking that holds back progress.

I've never had a flu shot, nor did I have the flu when I was pregnant with my oldest, who has ASD. This is just another theory du jour, and I for one am tired of rehashing every thing I did or didn't do during my pregnancy (almost six years ago) looking for a cause. I don't know what causes it, but I don't really care at this point, because I don't have a time machine.

I'm also tired of autism being used as a threat (by both sides), as if my child has the plague or something.

And for the poster who said autism didn't exist 100 years ago, that's crap. The word itself was coined in 1908, and there are cases far, far older that sound very much like autism.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_figures_sometimes_considered_autistic

I had the H1N1 vaccine in 2009 when I was 14 weeks pregnant! had no ill effects from it whatsoever, however my friend who got H1n1 during pregnancy was hospitalized and her baby born 10 weeks early as she was so very ill.

My baby girl was born perfectly healthy, no autism. I had a lovely pregnancy, I ate loads and didn't gain too much weight, labour and birth were amazing, and short! I can't say the vaccine had any ill effects on us, however I don't know if she would be thriving even more if I had not had it.

Last year I didnt have a flu shot for the first time in years and got the flu which resulted in pneumonia. I was sooo underweigfhed at the end, it took me weeks to recover, I will be having flu shots in the future!

Also I know of a family who didnt vaccinate their boys, they both got measles, it was severe, they nearly died... they did survive and 2 years later BOTH children got SSPE,
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14681760?dopt=Abstract

they went on to have another son who had a reaction to the vaccine. So any child taht has a reaction might be affected much much worse if they get the actual desease and it might not be harmless in them. It is dangerous to advice people not to vaccinate, their kids might be fine, but giving measles to babieas (who cant have the vacc yet) and rsiking them dying later on is just wrong!

I had a flu shot they were free at work, stupid me! This was during my 1st trimester and I didn't know I was pregnant at the time. My son has autism.........he's 14.

this is a great read:

http://www.jpands.org/vol11no2/ayoub.pdf this is the link to the original PDF and at the end has 1 1/2 pages of sources.


Influenza Vaccination During Pregnancy: A Critical Assessment of the Recommendations of the


Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP)


David M. Ayoub, M.D.


F. Edward Yazbak, M.D

In September 2009, I was in my first trimester of pregnancy. I also have asthma and at the time had multiple pulminary embolisms in both lungs. The few days before I was in admitted into the hospital, I was taking care of my teen daughter who at the time was sick with the flu. While I was in the hospital, she was diagnosed with H1N1. My docs knew she had it and the still let her come see me. They didn't mention any flu shots for me. Also in our house was my son who is also asthmatic, my 2 year old daughter and my husband. None of them got H1N1. My friend took my daughter to the doctor, in the van with them was a group of daycare kids. This group also went into the doc cubicle with my daughter and none of them got sick. After this hospital stay, I was seeing a group of 4 high risk pregnancy doctors. They never mentioned a flu shot to me. I was re-admitted to the hospital two months after my first stay. This time because of a torn stomach muscle and internal bleeding from the anti-coagulant injections. I spent two months in the Cardiac Care Unit, another unit and Antepartum. One nurse asked me if I wanted a flu shot. I said no and that was the end of the conversation. My point is that I was surrounded by medical staff and specialists such as Pulminary and others from August 2009-Feb 2010, and only once was the vaccine even mentioned to me. When a group of Perinatologists and other specialists are not pushing the flu shots, especially during an "outbreak" of H1N1, this tells me that they are not really that important for pregnant women to take.

I had a flu shot and rhogam the same day during pregnancy year 2000 . The next day I nearly fell asleep on my drive to work. I assumed it was due to pregnancy. I gained 50 pounds fom that point on. I had to be induced. 2 days with no contractions despite drugs like pitocin. Baby born c section apgar 8. Baby got hep b shot 6 hours after birth when I asked them to bring me him to nurse. Baby went into oxygen desat and went to icu for cause they never did figure out. . . (Right) . Reported vax reactions every well baby visit. MMR put him over the edge into autism. Never another shot ----I finally got wise. Now high functioning mostly mainstreamed after many years and therapies.
When I see flu shot signs I always want to circle the FLU SHot----- flush it.!!
I also wonder if the high miscarriage rate I was told is normal (1 in 3) is due to shots.

This study does not explain the autism epidemic. Women have been catching flu's while pregnant for thousands of years with scant effect. Plus, as we know from the recent Nature studies, men are passing autism at 4 times the rate of women (O'Roak BJ et al 2012). That means men are driving 80% of autism being passed to children, so we need to shift toward looking at autism being caused by men BEFORE conception (i.e. how could men be giving children autism after conception?)

About 20 years ago, autism began mysteriously spiking up. Research now points to small fragmentations in men's sperm cells as the major cause (Sanders SJ et al 2012). About 20 years ago, men began carrying radiation-emitting cell phones around in their front pockets, within a few inches of sperm cells. Cell phone radiation causes small sperm cell DNA fragmentations (De Iuliis G 2009).

Women, have him keep his cell phone out of his pockets for 30 days before you try! Then baby will start with clean, unfragmented sperm DNA. www.WhyAutismHappens.com

I had a mercury containing flu shot in 2001 when I was somewhere between 3 to 5 weeks pregnant. I did not know that I was pregnant at the time I received the shot. I miscarried at 10 weeks. The ultra sound tech told me that my baby did not develop beyond 5 weeks gestation. I asked the doctor if my flu vaccine could have caused my miscarriage....her answer, "No, of course not, we recommend flu vaccines for all pregnant women. "

I see that more and more doctors now are aware of flu vaccination scam. I have visited lately 3 different doctors' offices and nobody was pushing vaccines on me or even asked me if I want a vaccine. Now only the pharmacies and TV gangs advertise vaccines as crazy. I plan to ask the pharmacy to sign the document that they will pay me millions $, if after vaccination I get seriously sick. Of course, I have no intention of being vaccinated against anything anymore, just want to scare them.

When my wife was pregnant, she gave up everything that posed even the slightest risk of harming our unborn children. Hell I wouldn't even let her pump gas into our vehicles, for fear of what that those fumes could do to our unborn children.

Little did i know, that the biggest threat to my children's well being, was the hubris of the fool that I MOST trusted with guarding their health.

If only I had known that someone insecure enough enough to derive a superiority complex from a lab coat, would be the biggest living threat to future of my children.

Maybe God will forgive them someday for what they have done. Because I'm pretty sure that I never will !

Saw this story on NBC last night and laughed the whole way through. As usual "Dr." Nancy vaccine $$$$nyderman was pushing those flu shots. What a joke and again they are using those oh so reliable Danish kids for their study. Can't they even get some new material?!!!!

Well "Dr." Nancy...I had my FIRST and ONLY flu shot in 1995, when pregnant w/ my now severely Autistic son. I got it b/c I was pregnant and had a toddler at home and didn't want to get sick. I didn't get the flu but I DID get an Autistic son who will be dependent on someone forever!! It's not the illness...IT'S THE SHOTS!!!!!!!

Every toxin injected to pregnant mother or an infant may cause autism. The claim in the paper that flu causes autism is ridiculous, since all these babies were also vaccinated, and autism did not exist before they started mass vaccinating babies with mercury loaded or live virus containing vaccines. Most clinical studies done today are falsified for the benefit of big pharma. The real science is the parents' stories.

I was in my first trimester when I worked at the hospital. I didn't know anything about vaccins then except that i knew it would protect me and my child to certain diseases. i was so dumb to believe the nurse who injected me the flu shot. i regret i didn't follow my instinct. To my ignorance, i even asked the nurse if it's safe for my baby. they assured me yes it is very safe.... i stopped vaccinating my baby. she had 3 shots (hep b, BCG and bep b booster)before i got myself educated. so far my baby is fine. but i am worried if the mercury from the flu shot would affect her in the near future. i am now bringing her to a naturopathic doctor and the doc said everything is going well with my baby. She's now 5months old and thank God, she hasn't been sick since then. but definitely, she's not gonna have any shots anymore. if i could just stick a note on her forehead "no vaccines for me pls" i would!

Unfortunately, this is simply the latest evidence that President Obama had almost no success in his first term pledge to restore "integrity" to what is being presented as "science" within the United States.

As a prime example of a lack of "scientific integrity" .. I submit this Bloomberg report titled "Pfizer Broke the Law by Promoting Drugs for Unapproved Uses". Consider .. we are talking about drugs that caused enormous harm .. including death .. to the innocent people who trusted the "integrity" of those selling the drugs.

http://tinyurl.com/yfwsgyn

This article is chock full of evidence of the lack of integrity in the pharmacuetical industry. Just two examples:

"Since May 2004, Pfizer, Eli Lilly & Co., Bristol-Myers Squibb Co. and four other drug companies have paid a total of $7 billion in fines and penalties. Six of the companies admitted in court that they marketed medicines for unapproved uses."

"The total of $2.75 billion Pfizer has paid in off-label penalties since 2004 is a little more than 1 percent of the company’s revenue of $245 billion from 2004 to 2008."

And .. so .. it should surpise absolutely no one that flu vaccine manufacturers and their main-stream media surrogates have EAGERLY embraced this latest study as an opportunity to promote flu vaccines as a means to "prevent autism".


I had a flu shot in 2004 when 37-week pregnant with my ASD son (I think they gave me a mercury-free one, though not sure, I remember discussing it with the doc but forgot if that's what I finally got or what).

I had a flu shot in 2005 when 15-week pregnant with my NT son (this one had mercury in it).

http://www.garvan.org.au/news-events/news/how-infection-can-trigger-autoimmune-disease.html (new info) If this can happen naturally, why would we want to induce it chemically?

And we know inflammation can cause cancer and it may be tied to methylation issues being shut down and not being able to fight cancer. Why deliberately induce it!
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121112135512.htm

And if the flu itself can cause a cytokine and inflammatory reaction, but there is only a small chance of catching the flu and only about 50% of people that do might exhibit physical illness symptoms (http://ns.umich.edu/new/releases/8511) of even catching a bug, but ALL flu shots are designed to elicit a cytokine and inflammatory reaction in the body EVERY time you get a shot, you'd have to live in Wonderland to think a flu shot will prevent autism instead of contributing to the risk of it.

The CDC itself, in its section on preparing for a healthy pregnancy, suggests avoiding toxins in the environment and links to this: http://www.prhe.ucsf.edu/prhe/pdfs/ToxicMatters.pdf
which specifically mentions mercury as one of the toxins to avoid.

@ Donna L. - I feel just as you do. Well said.

The doctors are LYING again, based on the "scientific" EVIDENCE.. and there-in continues the issue..we are losing lives, and futures based on the current series of fraudulent studies that have become the norm in this area of "science". Paid for, promoted, signed off, crap science.
I told my friend, about two weeks ago to report her fetal loss following thimerosal flu vaccine to VAERS. Her doctor said, the idea was coming from some crazed anti-vaccine person that believes "everything she reads on the internet". That would be me!! Before we can move on, the crap science , such as the "flu" vaccine prevents autism release this week, needs to be addressed. HOW, when puff trash pieces like that one released this week are considered framable by docs that have lost their thinking ability. I'm sorry, even I find it hard to support any autism group, but I would support a private organization devoted to putting together a group of scientific researchers who could test the "conclusions" of these pharm sponsored "studies". Real science wasn't "recall science", it required more than one proof, it required duplication. Today, it's all crap, I read 50% of autism moms had the vaccine, 67% of non autism moms had the vaccine , hence not having vaccine causes autism. WHAT!

I just posted this comment elsewhere but will repeat it as imo this aspect gets overlooked:

IMO this is a very valid study and fits in right with many other recent studies on autism etiology and pathology. Where it doesn't fit in is dualistic either-or view of autism ('if it was vaccines than it wasn't anything else...'). It also fits right in with reports of vaccine regressions (preprogramming of fetal immune system via infectious insults for one would set the child up for excessive inflammatory and/or autoimmune reaction to an immune stressor, including a vaccine).

If we want to ever crack autism we need to view it from all possible angles to get as full picture as possible, not dismiss findings because (we erroneously think) they don't fit. It is bad science and bad advocacy.

This is not to say that most of the articles reporting this study are not awful and full of propaganda and scare mongering, but that is another issue.

I thought about the news yesterday about the study that showed that getting the flu during pregnancy raised the risk of autism. I thought about how autism wasn't with us a hundred years ago, but the flu was. I realized that this is another case of what Dan and Mark explained in their book The Age of Autism, of a virus potentiating stored (or still active) heavy metals from vaccines. My MS was triggered by the oral herpes virus potentiating the stored mercury in my system from nine DPTs, my daughter's bowel disease was triggered by a summer flu virus in August 2007 potentiating the stored mercury in her system from vaccines, which had already caused her autism, my nephew's bowel disease was triggered by a severe case of bronchitis in June 2009 doing the same. It's definitely not as simple as "Get your flu shot in pregnancy, and your worries about autism will be over!" They are just as likely to be just beginning, if you can even get past the greatly increased risk of miscarriage if you get your flu shot (or Tdap etc.) during pregnancy.

It is somewhat amazing that they can "find and publish a link" to some pathetic Denmark data which then quickly makes national news in the USA.

However, endless accounts of "off the deep end Autism" following 8 or 9 vaccines on the same day are considered "antedotal non-science bable" by parents.

I didn't have a flu shot or the flu or even a fever while pregnant, and yet, here we are.

I predict we'll see a lot more of their latest desperate tactic: Use the threat of autism to scare women into getting vaccines which they are terrified of accepting due to the threat of autism.
I have to scream now.

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