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XMRV (HGRV) is Not Dead - The Rituximab Story

Rituximab-rituxan-715856By Kent Heckenlively, Esq.

I think that we have not cared for people with ME (myalgic encephelomyelitis, otherwise known as chronic fatigue syndrome) to a great enough extent.  I think it is correct to say that we have not established proper health care services for these people, and I regret that." - Apology from the Norwegian Directorate of Health on publication of a study showing that the cancer drug rituximab is effective in the treatment of chronic fatigue syndrome/ME.

What was reason for this unprecedented apology from the public health authorities in Norway?

It was the publication of a study which showed that the drug rituximab improved the health of 10 of 15 patients (67%) with chronic fatigue syndrome/ME and that 2 of the 15 patients given the drug staged a complete recovery from their condition.  You can read about the study in Medscape.

Why is this important to the autism community?

It's important because chronic fatigue syndrome/ME and autism share many common clinical indicators, including immune disregulation, increased oxidative stress, heavy metal retention, co-infection by other pathogens, and mitichondrial insufficiency.  What is effective in treating chronic fatigue syndrome/ME may end up having some relevance to treatments for autism.  I have written before about my daughter with autism having tested positive for XMRV.  You can read my previous article for background on XMRV.

The researchers I have spoken with about XMRV and autism have told me their suspicion that the retrovirus likes to enter B cells which have the CD20 receptor.  They also suspect that it isn't the retrovirus itself which is doing the harm, but the toxins or auto-antibodies which are produced in response to the retrovirus.  Rituximab specifically targets those B cells which have the CD20 receptor.  It is a very targeted type of chemotherapy, although it is not without significant risks.

B cells are part of the immune system, but when they go haywire they may cause cancer, or diseases like rheumatoid arthritis.  Rituximab is approved for the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis and many types of lymphoma.

The question of why rituximab's depletion of B cells helps those with chronic fatigue syndrome/ME remains unexplained.  The researchers specifically noted they had searched for XMRV and not found evidence of its presence, but that touches on the greater issue of whether the currently validated test for XMRV is accurate.

As explained to me by advocates in the chronic fatigue syndrome/ME community, the problem may be with the clone currently being used to validate XMRV infection in the currently available tests.  According to my sources, this clone, known as VP62, was made from pieces of 3 different viruses, not from an actual virus recovered from a living human being.  Thus, VP62 may be adequate for determining some of the characteristics of this type of retrovirus, but is probably not ideal for detecting the virus in actual subjects.

The teams which have found the virus, such as the study by Drs. Shyh Ching-Lo of the FDA and Harvey Alter of the National Institute of Health understood that their probes had to be broad enough to pick up what is an all likelihood a family of XMRVs, or what may end up as their new designation, human gamma-retroviruses (HGRVs).  You can read their research, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

This puts the Norweigan team in the curious position of saying they don't think it's the XMRV retrovirus, but the only thing that makes sense is that they're killing some sort of retrovirus.  (For those keeping score at home, there are only two other identified human retroviruses, HIV which causes AIDS and H-TLV which is found mainly in Asian countries.)  From the Medscape article, "One theory, held by researchers who believe CFS may be caused by an infection, suggests that retroviruses may hide out in dormant B-cells, only becoming active when the cell is triggered and rapidly multiplies.  (Author's note - By activating the immune system, vaccines cause B-cell replication.) But Fluge thinks that if that's the case, patients would see quicker improvements after taking the rituximab.  'We think that what we see could best be explained with an autoimmune mechanism and gradual elimination of auto-antibodies,' he says."

The patients who responded to the treatment usually started improving sometime between two to seven months after treatment.  This suggests that something in addition to the retrovirus is causing the problem.

I can't say I'm a fan of rituximab.  It's a drug that comes with a black box warning, meaning it can cause death.  But what has been revealed about the etiology of chronic fatigue syndrome/ME, and possibly autism, may be truly remarkable.  Other, less toxic medications which supposedly do much of the same thing are on their way to market.  I'm not suggesting any solutions in this article.

I'm just raising the possibility that this research with rituximab may have finally shown us the target. 

Read another article from ABC News on this research HERE.

Kent Heckenlively is a Contributing Editor to Age of Autism

Comments

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Kent, I'm wondering if Cytheris' IL-7 may be effective against XMRV. It has shown effectiveness against JC virus in limited trials. I'm interested in your thoughts.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/cytheris-announces-interim-results-from-eclipse-2-hepatitis-c-multicenter-study-of-il-7-in-chronically-infected-genotype-1-and-4-nonresponders-to-standard-of-care-soc-2011-11-08

The reason there may be an overlap in treating autism like CFS or vice versa is that drugs that dampen the immune response may help with both conditions. As a twenty-five year sufferer of CFS I can tell you the only way you will get any relief from this horrible illness is to start treating it like an autoimmune illness like lupus, which is what CFS is; an immune system in overdrive. Calm the immune system with medications that suppress the immune response and the symptoms of the illness will lessen. Things that stimulate the immune response of CFS sufferers will also exacerbate their symptoms.

I look at CFS as an autoimmune/neuroimmune disease and perhaps that’s what autism is too. What works for one condition might help with the other. I am not sick in the conventional way that people think of illness. My body is actually over-performing which can make you feel just as bad as one that is under-performing.

Is it an infection or a reaction? Is it is an infection that your body can’t defeat and you become weak and frail, or is your body over-reacting to everything; sending out an immune response that is too strong causing inflammation, irritable bowel, pain, flu-like symptoms etc.? A strong immune response can make you feel just as bad as a weak immune response. They are opposite problems, but produce the same type of symptoms. People who are experiencing an over-response of the immune system feel just as bad, just as sick (autoimmune diseases, allergies, anaphylaxis), but don’t look as sick because their problem is not caused by a suppressed, poor-functioning immune system (cancer, diabetes, hiv/aids), but one that is performing too well.

The question is: Are these every last one genetic disease or not though?
************
I think know what you are saying Benedetta. It's like my own illness CFS, which I believe is an autoimmune illness. I know of no one in my family that had this illness before me, but I have known since childhood that my immune system has always been very hyper-responsive. I rarely as a child had colds or flues and I was always a very good healer; was always sensitive to the effects or prescription meds etc.

Maybe, it's a tendency towards up-regulation of the immune system in certain individuals, something some people are born with, that is responsible for their illness. However, in my own case, I personally, do not think I would have developed CFS if it hadn't been for my exposure to aspartame. It changed something in my immune system and sparked my illness. I'm sure this is the case for many other individuals, who have a tendency towards up-regulation of the immune system and a stimulation/change of some kind that results in their newly acquired illness.

Racheal I appreicate the link to immune diseases.
The question is; Are these every last one geneitc disease or not though.

For example;
My husband has a mitrochondrial myopathy. There are such diseases that are genetically based. My husband's is not though. So, they tack in front of it "acquired mitrochondrial myopahty.

My husband's sister had Myasthenia gravis. Once again a genetic immune disease except her's is not the genetic type - it is what the medical doctors called "acquired" and according them them "LADY LUCK" has smiled on her because there are actually some good treatments for the acquired kind unlike the genetic kind.

When CDC says auto immune diseases are on the rise --- is it part of their job description to list these same symptom like diseases --- together or separate them as genetic or acquired ----apart?????

Recent studies have hypothesized that narcolepsy is an autoimmune illness. Here is an example of a genetic predisposition to develop an autoimmune illness and an environmental trigger that caused the condition.

Up to 30 per cent of Finns have the genetic predisposition to develop narcolepsy, but very few ever actually get the disease. The link between the Pandemrix swine flu vaccine and children’s narcolepsy had been confirmed in Finland. The Pandemrix swine flu vaccine gave a 13-fold increase in the risk of children and young people to come down with the disease. When the disease unexpectedly increases so much, it is logical to think that the external factor in these cases of narcolepsy was the Pandrmrix swine flu vaccine.

http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Narcolepsy+link+to+swine+flu+vaccine+established+-+victims+to+get+compensation+/1135269054227

excellent source here:

99th Dahlem Conference on Infection, Inflammation and Chronic Inflammatory Disorders: Triggering of autoimmune diseases by infections


Human autoimmune diseases, such as multiple sclerosis, type 1 diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis and systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE), are linked genetically to distinct major histocompatibility complex (MHC) class II molecules and other immune modulators. However, genetic predisposition is only one risk factor for the development of these diseases, and low concordance rates in monozygotic twins as well as geographical distribution of disease risk suggest a critical role for environmental factors in the triggering of these autoimmune diseases. Among potential environmental factors, infections have been implicated in the onset and/or promotion of autoimmunity. This review will discuss human autoimmune diseases with a potential viral cause, and outline potential mechanisms by which pathogens can trigger autoimmune disease as discerned from various animal models of infection-induced autoimmune disease.

free access:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2841830/?tool=pubmed

Benedetta: Exactly what triggers an autoimmune response is unknown; however, researchers do know that autoimmune diseases occur where there are a genetic predisposition in the family towards autoimmunity and the presence of an environmental trigger, such as, viruses, bacteria, medications, pollutants, or stress.

American Autoimmune Related Diseases Association

For your reading: http://www.aarda.org/pdf/cbad.pdf

David: I actually became sick during strenuous exercise and the consumption on one too many aspartame containing "diet sodas" (a chemical poisoning of sorts). It was the height of the fitness craze and even though I was always was more of a sprinter than a long distance runner, I pushed myself to do aerobic classes. Drinks with "zero calories", that contained aspartame, had just come on the market and I began drinking way too many of these beverages. I was exercising and downing yet another diet cola, when I suddenly developed severe flu-like symptoms. Those flu-like symptoms have remained with me since that day over twenty-five years ago, although, like I said in my previous post, I have found things that help ease my symptoms, somewhat.

However, I do believe, like you, that vaccinations are responsible for the development of CFS in many individuals. A series of adult vaccinations about ten years ago made me tremendously ill and it took years to regain what I lost by subjecting myself to those shots. I personally have always been more sensitive that the average person to the effects of prescription medications and I have always had chemical sensitivities; a part of my genetic make-up I guess (sensitivity) being that I am a artist. I believe that just like in autism, the genes load the gun and the environment pulls the trigger.

For those that believe there is some genetic factor in autism that is just sitting around waiting for an environmental trigger.- Please name one such diseasse in the medical books that is already known.

To fit, this genetic disease with an environmental factor has to:
1.) Have the disease pathways well noted and understood - like PKU missing an enzyme so the body cannot process proteins

2.) This genetic disease must be stable in the population and not rising, or increasing.

Rachel, Yes - autoimmune afflictions and CFS are hard to separate. You mentioned you've been stricken for 25+ years.

In the mid-1980s (25 years ago) mandatory "childhood" vaccinations were forced on almost all U.S. college students who could not provide prior record of having them, else the students would not be granted their diplomas.

A few years later around 1990 Time Magazine ran a big story on the "Yuppie Flu" focused on large numbers of recent college graduates who had all the symptoms of chronic fatigue syndrome -- but medical authorities were at a lose to explain the dawning 'epidemic.'

Can you offer any insight if this may pertain to you??

Pleas Zac and Kathy Blanco tell us your experiences from your children being treated for PANDAS?

I looked up this:
There are 4 ways to lessen the autoimmune inflammation caused by PANDAS:

1.Antibiotics
2.Short Course of Steroids like Prednisone
3.IVIG
4.Plasmaphoresus

I am familiar with the first three. My husband after his second reaction to a tetanus shot - four years later was given prednisone and felt great while he was on it.

My sister-in-law who now has subcome to myasthenia gravis, kept getting pneumonia twice a year for five years - finally did have prolnged treatments of IVIGs; and I am aware that kids with Kawasakis get no more than three treatments of IVIGs, if the Kawasakis disease is recgonized in time (within a 10 day period I think).

Did you have all four?
What was the fourth one like?

I agree with Cassandra, that CFS is an autoimmune illness. In my own quest, to find answers regarding CFS (25+ year sufferer), which I have believed, for a very long time to be an autoimmune illness, I became very interested in the immune systems involvement in my condition. By calming my immune system with antihistamines (and a list of other suppressants/calming agents of the immune system), my condition has greatly improved.

One day, it will be proven, that having a genetic predisposition, to develop an autoimmune illness and an environmental trigger is the cause of CFS. In some susceptible people that trigger may very well may be a virus, or infection. In others, some sort of stimulation, or change in the immune system (adverse vaccination reactions, a chemical poisoning, or a trauma eg surgery, accidents), something that causes the immune system to go haywire in genetically, predisposed individuals; those who were born with more sensitive immune systems than the average person

I THINK WHEN THE SCIENTISTS FROM THAT INSTITUTE STATE THEY DO NOT THINK ITS THE RETROVIRUS XMRV BUT THE ANTIBODIES ARE DOING IT....HOW ABOUT THIS INSTEAD, 'IT IS NOT XMRV OR ANTIBODIES BUT IS C. PNEUMONAIE AS THE CAUSE(S) THE REASON I STICK TO C. PNEUMONAIE MORE THAN CIGUATARA IS BECAUSE DR. CHARLES STRATTON HAS ALREADY CURED PATIENTS OF THEIR DISEASES... 'NOT TREATED BUT CURED' THEY ENDED UP 'NEGATIVE' TO C. PNEUMONAIE....I BELIEVE IN HIM MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE EVEN THE NEURO SURGEONS BECAUSE TO THIS DATE HAVE NOT SEEN THEIR PUBLISHED WORK OR ANY REASEARCH WEBSITE TO INDICATE OTHERWISE...I ALSO BELIEVE DR. STRATTON WILL WIN THE NOBEL PRIZE IN MEDICINE...SINCERELY AIDAN WALSH SOUTHAMPTON, UNITED KINGDOM...I AM POSITIVE TO C. PNEUMONAIE BY VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY....

I DO NOT BELIEVE IN XMRV/MLV NEVER HAVE AND NEVER WILL...THIS MEDICINE THEY JUST FINISHED USING IS ONLY BRINGING DOWN THE INFLAMMATION INVOLVED IN THE DISEASE! I HAD THE SAME REACTION AND OUTCOME WITH PREDNISONE AND I WAS OUT EXERCISING AND WORKING 60 HOURS IN CONSTRUCTION BUT NEVER FELT COMPLETELY WELL...DR STRATTON FROM VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY BELIEVES VERY STRONGLY THAT C. PNEUMONAIE IS THE CAUSE AND ALSO I MAY ADD THAT ANY MEDICINE THAT HELPS IN M.S. OR R. ARTHRITIS WILL HAVE THE SAME EFFECT ON CFS PATIENTS...ALSO THE LATEST STUDY TALKED ABOUT SOME PATIENTS MAY ONLY HAVE A TYPE OF SYNCOPE BUT THEY COULD ALSO HAVE UNDIAGNOSED CONGENITAL CHIARI 1 MALFORMATION AND/OR STENOSIS AND THIS ARCTICLE EXPLAINS MORE 'NEURALLY MEDIATED HYPOTENSION 2005' ON PROPER XRAY/MRI PROCEDURES THAT NEED TO BE DONE...DR. PAUL CHENEY ALSO TRIED BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS OR BONE MARROW PROCEDURES AND IT WORKED BUT IN TIME PATIENTS STARTED TO GET SICK AGAIN...ALSO THE RESEARCH FROM HAWAII WHICH HAS BEEN REPLICATED FOUND THAT CFS PATIENTS WERE POSITIVE TO CIGUATARA ASSAYS AND MY UNDERSTANDING NOW IS CFS/FIBRO IS LINKED TO MYELODYSPLASIA/AML AND THIS IS TIED TO THE CIGUATARA AND NOW I AM HEARING A LINK AS A RESULT TO RADIATION POISONING...ALSO THE CIGUATARA WAS THE SAME ASSAYS WHO DR. JOHN MARTIN TRIED TO STEAL AND CALLED IT A 'SPUMA' VIRUS KNOWING IT WAS CIGUATARA...TO THINK THAT XMRV/MLV IS INVOLVED IS A TOTAL WASTE OF TIME AND TO THIS DATE HAS NOT BEEN REPLICATED BY ANYONE THUS FAR...THE CIGUATARA ASSAY HAS AND THE VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY IS FAR AHEAD OF THE WHOLE LOT...EVEN TOP WORLD ONCOLOGISTS IN ISRAEL AND EGYPT ARE WORKING ON THERAPIES OR ANSWERS...SORRY BUT I DO NOT BELIEVE IN RETROVIRAL CAUSE OR ANY ASSOCIATION WHATSOEVER AND EVEN DR. STRATTON TOLD ME THAT C. PNEUMONAIE IS AS VIOLENT AS ANY RETROVIRUS AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS IT IS EVEN IN AIDS PATIENTS ALTHOUGH THE LEVELS IN CFS ARE HIGHER THAN MOST ILLNESSES THEY ARE WORKING ON AND I KNOW FOR A FACT THEY ARE WORKING ON A HOST OF NUMEROUS DISEASES ASSOCIATED WITH THIS BACTERIAL AIR BORNE INFECTIOUS DISEASE...THE MAJOR PROBLEM THEY NOW FACE IS THE 'CURE' AS IT IS WORSE THAN THE DISEASE...'CAN YOU CATCH A CORONARY?' I SUGGEST ALL OF YOU READ I BELIEVE WAS A 1990 ARCTICLE ON THE FRONT COVER OF NEWSWEEK TO SEE WHAT C.PNEUMONAIE IS CAPABLE OF DOING AND 'YES' IT IS ALSO PASSED ON TO CHILD FROM MOTHER AND 'YES' PLAYS A ROLE IN AUTISM DISEASE...THIS BUG SURVIVES ON INFLAMMATION IN THE BODY... CPNHELP.ORG SINCERELY AIDAN WALSH SOUTHAMPTON, UNITED KINGDOM....

ps: On infant/child AIDS mortality, the 266 U.S. deaths were the last 10-year period of time, whereas Canada had but one - I did not make that clear.

Since 1985 the U.S. has totaled 6,000 infant/child AIDS deaths - virtually every one given relentless doses of Zidovudine (azidothymidine, AZT) until they inexorably, usually quickly, die from their blessed medicine (and this in the face of NIH even reluctantly admitting AIDS takes 10+ years for adults to manifest any serious syndrome disease after 'infection.' Yet, they utterly make up the fantasy that newborns NEED this poisonous medicine.

I am not making this up -- and NIH still blesses Zidovudine; it's right on their protocols for treating babies born to HIV+ mothers.

Natasa - nice to get a civil comment from you, and a reference. However, for decades NIH info and propaganda on so many critical medical issues has been dogmatic and/or outright lies or half-truths - for instance NIH blesses and promotes all the vaccines in the Schedule for infants aged 0 to 6 years - they (NIH) just are not credible. No doubt NIH would have dismissed Ignaz Semmelweis as they did Linus Pauling - whereas they applaud the pitiful dishonesty of Robert Gallo. Anybody who puts credence in NIH I have a bridge in West Virginia to sell you.

Actually, there is one NIH document I have a copy of and believe. It is 60+ pages long and still recommends Zidovudine (azidothymidine, AZT) for HIV+ pregnant women and their newborns to be given this (and equally lethal cousin-drugs) every day for the first 6 weeks of life. This is precisely the drug (Zidovudine) that directly killed hundreds of thousands of HIV+ Americans until it was finally dropped in 2006. Gee, why was it dropped after 10 years of promotion? - because it directly and unequivocally causes death. In the last 10 years exactly one Canada infant/child has died of AIDS; in the U.S. there have been 266 infant/child AIDS deaths on NIH regimens.

If people actually tried to understand the lethality of antiretroviral drugs they would understand why the U.S. AIDS death rate (per capita) is 50 to 100 times the rest of the developed world. BUT, this is completely censored by mainstream media just as the horrors of vaccine damage are.

And there is just one thing I believe from CDC; it's America's Weapon of Self-Mass Destruction:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/recs/schedules/downloads/child/0-6yrs-schedule-pr.pdf

My money is on the ME is an autoimmune disease hypothesis. This does not mean that viruses cannot play a role but I think the primary cause is going to be an autoimmune attack.

I agree with Natasa that the political implications are huge.
Will this result in more denial or will it finally open the door for important new research?

I am wondering how Rituximab compares to Ofatumumab in terms of safety etc (probably not much difference since both are monoclonal antibodies?)?

Ofatumumab is being trialled in RA and Multiple Sclerosis, in addition to Lymphocytic Leukemia ....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21896924

@David: thousands - and there is no reason to believe that those that are now endogenous were initially harmless (before and during endogenisation, which was in many instances beneficial to host long term). The long term aim is passing on genetic code, what happens prior to that is collateral damage.

Natasha, Hypothesized powers of a "clever virus" you espouse are indeed wondrous - and incredibly creative! Would you venture a guess as to how many thousands of different retroviruses that have been around since the dawn of homosapiens are about to pounce on us here in year 2011?

cheers!

I think we need to wait for more conclusive research and studies on this drug, before statements are made such as "This helps CFS patients" and can give (or did give) "complete reversal" for someone with CFS. CFS is more than just a B cell depletion issue, more than an immune issue. Its a Brain Disease, Infectious disease, hereditary disease, cardiac-intestinal-rheumatoid-endocrinological systems are all involved. I have been on 3 different types of chemos for my arthirits, all of them made the CFS worse in the end. Why? Because of the involvement of so many systems in the body caused by these diseases, because of the multi-faceted systemic meltdown these disease cause and ESPECIALLY because of the neurological involvement. For some patients with certain genetic traits who are patients of these diseases, chemo will push them right over the ledge, it is very RISKY for these subsets. I've had arthritis since I was 27 years old, I am VERY familiar with this drug. As far as B-cell depletion, the infectious pathogens known to exist in Autism, Epilepsy, CFS/ME, Lyme, ALS and GWI also damage B-Cells. How can we say it is XMRV alone doing this damage in these patients, knowing what we know about the B and T cell damage done b y the viruses and infections in these patients. I am really on the fence about any comments on any drug until we know more and have solid research with clinical trials. This is NOT been "proven" to be a miracle drug. I am concerned patients will get their hopes up, prior to solid-scientific confirmation. Are we praying and hoping this med will work and be successful for certain subsets of patients? ABSOLUTELY- YES! But until we know who this drug will work on and how to use it, we must not buy into or fuel any false hope.

My Mia would have an amazing day or two prior to spiking a fever and then launching into grand mal seizures. She would speak, be noticeably less autistic and we'd be thrilled - and until saw the pattern and know a horrible, but wrenching crash was about to follow. But our kids have a behavioral diagnosis filed under mental illness, right? (Eye roll.)

KS

I've heard that having a fever makes autism symptoms go away temporarily. What effect does a fever have on B cells?

@david burd: "there's never been shown a cellular mechanism by which a retrovirus actually causes cell destruction."

No, of course not, the whole point of a stealth infection is to keep the cell intact (but at the same time to weaken its defensive mechanism and to overtake its protein production line), and to keep the host alive for long enough to spread the viral gene code, both through horizontal and vertical transmission (and through that process eventually become endogenous to host), while at the same time avoiding detection and destruction by the immune system .

Cell destruction/lysis would be the exact opposite of what a clever retrovirus needs. You are completely missing the point.

You are also completely missing the point by saying that vaccine injuries should be the focus, instead of retroviral pathologies. Those two are basically one and the same thing. (you might want to read Karin’s comment below to try and learn something useful and pertinent).

Great article, thanks. I agree with your conclusion, and some of the comments below. While Rituximab is a very expensive and a very powerful drug with black box warning - in other words not something to be considered lightly (unless maybe the person is severely ill and all other options have been exhausted), it is GREAT to have some solid pointers at last, a mechanism to target with softer, safer means.

Not to mention political implications of this study!!

“I think that we have not cared for people with Autism to a great enough extent. I think it is correct to say that we have not established proper health care services for these people, and I regret that." - Apology from the xxx Directorate of Health.

That will be the day, hey!

I wish there was an easy solution to this, ....oh wait...here's one...how about stopping vaccines...there you go...but that doesn't answer the already infected does it? With myself and two kids infected with "XMRV", I have nothing but my own wits to get after it. If B cells are super busy, perhaps the loss of communication between cells is the problem...and that speaks of having identifiable biological response modifiers on board. That means things like IVIG, monossacharides, polysaccharides, a very good cellular wall (good fats), etc. I enjoyed the comment on PANDAS, because isn't that weird my son with XMRV also has PANDAS? Perhaps going after CAM KINASE II is the problem? Or here is a thought...that this retrovirus is a viron chimeria thing that not only has retroviruses associated with it, but bacteria, and other viruses as well, aka the gangs all here? Lowering cytokines and chemokines then would be key...that means things like BIAXIN (known to do that), and other abx's, and probably why a CFS person does better on them, and or they have mycoplasma infections as well. I once looked also at pentoxyphilline for that as well...so many roads to choose, and none researched at least for forty years or more, about the time frame of death for me, and near death for my kids. Thanks world! NOT! We sure have done a find job in creating pandemics/pestilences of "mysterious diseases" haven't we? I can't help to feel that someone is laughing this one all the way to the bank.

Wasn't it said at the last Autism One that up to twenty five different auto-antibodies to various brain proteins have been found in autism by various teams? And that this was pointing to dysfunctional B cells?

Even simply auto-antibodies to folate receptor alpha can have disastrous effect for both children and adults, I know this first hand. I am trying to get the ME community interested in this.

It makes sense that Rituximab would have dramatic results in autism. But there might be much less risky ways. Also, how about long term results? Maybe what is the root cause of the B cell dysfunction is still there after a Rituximab treatment and the whole cycle will start again as the B cell population builds up again.

Also, Rituxan is an injectable drug produced on human-mouse hybrid cells, the ideal breeding ground for human retroviruses of mouse origin. If the patient did not have MLVs before, they will be exposed to some during this treatment. No thanks. I would have to be at death's door to take this drug.

Kent, Yes - a "marker" such as XMRV (or HGRVs) may indeed correlate with CFS, etc.

However, since you bring in the National Academy of Sciences, their member Peter Duesberg long ago contributed (unrebutted) papers that were published by the Academy that convincingly show "HIV" cannot possibly cause AIDS. Also, Duesberg has an abundance of top-drawer science allies, so he's not a lone ranger.

Other published papers show the number of distinct "retroviruses" in the human makeup is approaching 100,000 - and there's never been shown a cellular mechanism by which a retrovirus actually causes cell destruction.

IF the door is opened for retroviruses actually causing diseases, then there is no limit on the endless false trails taking us away from a real cause of CFS such as vaccines or other toxicities.

In fact, CFS first surfaced when college students in the U.S. were forced to take many vaccinations to actually be granted their diplomas, after the vaccine industry conned States' Legislatures to put vaccine requirements into practice in the mid-1980s, and thus Time Magazine had a Cover/story on the "Yuppie Flu" pertaining to all the college grads mysteriously being afflicted.

News out 10/17 shows some reagents used in the DNA amplification in XMRV studies (and probably countless others involving infectious agents) are severely flawed and cause false negatives.

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1756-0500/4/457/abstract

The XMRV saga is far from over, and in fact has to be completely reexamined in light of the new information.

Thank you very much for your explanation of things. I now see the VP62 issue.

I also see now why Fluge thinks it's not a retroviral issue. I'm going to check on the half-life of B cells treated with Rituximab, though, to feel more confident about it.

Actually, I hope they identify an auto-antibody. You know, it's beginning to feel just like PANDAS.

Lastly, maybe instead of Rituximab, we should just not vaccinate so much. Maybe we are now overcrowded with confused B-cells proliferated by vaccinations.

Muchos gracias.

Thank you, Kent. Your explanation is really helping me put the Rituximab study into context.

Patricia Carter

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