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Smart Talk, on WITF in PA ran a show on autism and vaccines featuring Mark Blaxill, Cynthia Demuth, AAP representative and Dr. Jeannette Ramer. Here's the direct link: WATCH HERE
Watch the full episode. See more Smart Talk.
Posted by Age of Autism at January 29, 2011 at 5:44 AM
in Mark Blaxill, Vaccine Safety
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Regarding the benefits of zinc:
About a year ago, I read about a recent study showing that zinc blocks the uptake of aluminum into the brain--I didn't save the reference--does anyone know what it is.
On a very similar note, from his book "Aluminum and Health", Hillel says:
"Our present studies suggest that aluminum increases the permeability of BBB by changing its ultrastructure and the expression of occludin and F-actin. Zinc can protect the integrity of BBB in juvenile rats that are exposed to aluminum and inhibit the decrease of tight junction protein occludin and F-actin expression in BBB."
January 31, 2011 at 10:05 AM
I have been having serum zinc and copper levels measured in all my patients since the 1970s.
This is not simple. In children, sweat and white blood cell levels are best because we found that all the dyslexic children we tested in our Zinc deficiency and dyslexia study ( BMJ 1988) had deficient sweat levels for zinc but normal serum levels. Hair is also misleading ( especially in teenagers) as they can have high, normal or low hair zinc but still be deficient in their sweat and WBCs.
You have to be very careful with copper. The pill and infections raise serum copper levels but this can cause copper deficiency which can be diagnosed by a RBC SOD test.
Giving zinc can cause copper and manganese deficiency.
I usually give adults and teenagers 30 my zinc each night and copper 1 mg twice a week in the morning. Those with low SOD function need daily copper for 2 weeks only then twice weekly.
We really need good labs everywhere like at www.biolab.co.uk as this is a basic part of Nutritional Medicine
Dr Ellen CG Grant |
January 31, 2011 at 12:43 AM
At around 23:50 Ramer says that that copper is "much more prevalent in the environment than it used to be" (and therefore could be a culprit in autism). That's pretty vague. According to McDonald and Paul, a candidate environmental factor would have continued to increase in the environment from the late 1980s through at least the mid 1990s in California, Denmark and possibly Japan and other developed countries: http://www.all.org/pdf/McDonaldPaul2010.pdf
Ramer should have given us more information about where she thinks this extra copper came from and when and how the extra exposure was distributed around the world.
January 30, 2011 at 05:30 PM
Also note post by Ellen Grant in BMJ 5 Days ago:-
'Urgent need for progress in autism Could the increase in autism relate to use of progestin contraceptives, as well as to other environmental factors?'
The prevalence of autism increased by 300% between 1987 and 1998 in California but the increase in the prevalence of cerebral palsy, epilepsy and mental retardation was only 3%. In the UK about one in 87 children are now autistic.1
What has changed over the past decade apart from a large increase in childhood vaccinations? We now have up to 3 successive generations of women who have used hormonal contraceptives with increasingly longer use from younger ages before first full time pregnancies (which increases breast cancer risks).
Such hormone use lowers white cell zinc and raises copper levels leading to impaired superoxide dismutase (SOD) function and reduced ability to deal with oxidative stress. Adequate zinc levels are needed for DNA repair. Vitamin B6 , B12 and folic acid levels and omega-3 and omega-6 essential fatty acid (EFA) deficiencies are common. I have routinely investigated the biochemistry of hundreds of women with histories of unexplained infertility and recurrent miscarriages. Most preconception patients are past hormone takers, with 50% longer takers for 5 years, and most have mineral deficiencies and poor SOD activity.
McLaren-Howard has presented data showing that women who ever took hormones had more DNA adducts than never takers. Of 356 women who had used oral contraceptives or HRT, 12.4% had adducts to nickel and 8.7% to Lindane compared with 7.1% and 3.8% of 182 never takers.2 He also compared 27 patients with cancer with 27 age and sex matched controls. 18.5% of cancer patients had DNA adducts to malondialdehyde (from lipid oxidation) and 18.5% had adducts to nickel compared with 0% and 3.7% of controls respectively.2
McLaren-Howard's routine analyses of blood from 61 autistic children found deficiencies of zinc, magnesium, chromium, selenium, manganese, molybdenum, and/or B vitamins. Such deficiencies can impair EFA pathways. In addition, 26% (16) of the children had DNA-adducts to malondialdehyde in their leucocytes, 20% (12) to cadmium, 15% (9) to nickel and one child had DNA-adducts to lead.3 A simple non-invasive sweat test shows that children with learning problems usually suffer from zinc deficiency and have higher levels of common toxic metals. Zinc deficiency increases food and chemical allergies and decreases food absorption.
Experimentally, higher doses of chlormadione and megestrol (progestins without oestrogenic or androgenic activity) increased sister chromatid exchanges and chromosomal aberrations. In vitro studies show the generation of free oxygen radicals by progestins to be responsible for genotoxic damage.4
Could longer progestin use cause more maternal genotoxic damage which in turn increases the susceptibility of children to develop autism? In a 2010 exploratory study children with autism were more likely to have mitochondrial dysfunction, mitochondrial DNA over-replication, and mitochondrial DNA deletions than typically developing children.5
Children who are susceptible to becoming autistic, or who seem apparently healthy but die from common infections, are not easily identified by epidemiological means. Perturbations of basic cell chemistry in mothers and children should be investigated and treated. Brain function is particularly vulnerable to damage by toxins and by deficiencies of zinc and essential fatty acids.
1 Downing D. Autism: are we entering the final straight? In memory of Bernard Rimland. JNEM 2007;16:3,173-180.
2 McLaren Howard J. The Detection of DNA Adducts (Risk Factors for DNA Damage). A Method for Genomic DNA, the Results and Some Effects of Nutritional Intervention. J. Nutr. & Env. Medicine. 2002; 12: 19-31. Also Essential nutrients, anti-nutrients, oestrogenic pesticides, toxic metals and DNA-adducts. Further results presented at the British Society for Ecological Medicine conference Progesterone and Breast Cancer. London November 2006
3 Grant ECG. McLaren-Howard J. Re: The effects of toxic metals in autistic children. http://bmj.com/cgi/eletters/329/7466/588-b#74117, 13 Sep 2004
4 Siddique YH, Beg T, Afzal M. Antigenotoxic effects of ascorbic acid against megestrol acetate-induced genotoxicity in mice. Hum Exp Toxicol. 2005 Mar;24(3):121-7.
5 Giulivi C, Zhang YF, Omanska-Klusek A, Ross-Inta C, Wong S, Hertz- Picciotto I, Tassone F, Pessah IN. Mitochondrial dysfunction in autism. JAMA 2010 Dec 1;304(21):2389-96.
John Stone |
January 30, 2011 at 02:39 PM
Carol - I can't speak to her hypothesis & study. I do know that one study is based on kids have low zinc & supplementing zinc & another on pancreatic enzymes. (see links below)
Study completed (says site):
This research is being done to find out if children between 3 and 9 years of age with autism have higher levels of copper, lower levels of zinc and/or an abnormal ratio of copper to zinc in their blood, compared to children the same age without autism.
The second part will involve research treatment, using oral zinc and vitamin C supplementation, for children who have an elevated copper to zinc ratio. Your child will be eligible for the second phase of the study if his/her copper/zinc ratio is abnormally high compared to children without autism who are also being studied by our group
January 30, 2011 at 02:08 PM
Copper and autism - CLEARLY we need an expensive study on PENNY CANDY - Blame the Zotz! Blame the Mint Juleps! Damn Squirrel Nut Zippers!!!!
January 30, 2011 at 02:03 PM
If Ramer thinks that increased exposure to copper is a major cause of autism, how does she explain the rapid rise of autism around 1990? Did copper suddenly become "much more prevalent in the environment" then?
January 30, 2011 at 01:37 PM
I took my son to see Dr Ramer when he was 2 1/2 - she was totally against anything DAN oriented and suggested instead that I put my son on Ritalin (at 2 1/2) - needless to say that was the last time I ever saw this woman in clinic setting! I have seen her speak publically and have thrown hard questions at her which she couldn't answer effectivey (is very pro-vaccine - anti-DAN). Interestingly, now she is doing study on zinc in asd kids - when I saw her after visiting Pfeiffer clinic and they diagnosed a high copper to zinc ration - she poo-pooed on our visit as crazy talk. If you're lookin to medicate your kiddo - she's your woman!
PS - Mark did great as usual!
January 30, 2011 at 12:32 PM
Great job, Mark. It helps to have a moderator who's, at least, trying to go after some facts, too. (she was better than most, after all.) I also agree on the demand to have all these "rigorous studies" on the safety of multiple vaccine administrations brought to light. Science worshipers--show us the science...but first you must realize it doesn't exist. That fact should sufficiently scare the socks off any skeptic, right?
This (intentional)oversight isn't unique to vaccines, though. I regularly encounter patients suffering a myriad of pharmaceutically-induced side-effects after being prescribed multiple medications simultaneously. These sacred, holy grail, double-blind, placebo-controlled, gold standard tests are not performed on even the most commonly prescribed combinations in geriatric populations, which might explain our plunge into 50th place in worldwide rankings of overall parameters of health. But at least our "health" care is expensive!
January 30, 2011 at 09:44 AM
Dr. DeMuth sounds like Offit. "The vaccines are just a drop in the bucket" compared to what children are exposed to. The doctor seems to forget, or perhaps is not bright enough, to understand that when you VACCINATE you INJECT things into the body and BYPASS all of the body's natural defenses. What a moron.
January 30, 2011 at 09:00 AM
I only watched the initial piece with the mother of the 4 year old with autism. That little boy's autism is very different from the autism I saw in the late 90's. My son is now 12 and when he was 4, he and his classmates flapped their hands, walked on toes, walked the perimeter of the room, licked their fingers, stared at the lights, lots of nonsense talk, spun in circles, smelled everything, etc. NOBODY was playing with a train or even noticing. another child. This was a private preschool that only accepted "well behaved" children. The autism of the late 2000's is not the same. Less mercury does less damage I guess. Gives me some hope.
January 30, 2011 at 06:47 AM
I actually have heard of Dr Ramer and had one of our dr's suggest we see her. Because I heard mixed things, i decided not to. Yet, I have to say that even though she seemed to still lean toward vaccines, I think that it was good that she stated that she wasn't qualified professionally to make a statement re. Wakefield and other matters one way or another. This is a whole lot better than the 5-6 shot doctor next to her, who would probably bow in dr profit's and clean his shoes with her hair and so forth.
Half kudos to Dr Ramer. I'm still not sure if we want to take our son to her yet. But still.
Full and 2x kudos to Blaxill, he covered his material well... except that i wish he stuck to mainly mercury. Still, he did well.
AutismDad in PA |
January 30, 2011 at 12:59 AM
Good job Mark, you are so patient to make your points over and over and over again...
One would think at least some of the AAP doctors could read a FIVE page paper and know what was stated by Dr. Wakefield.
Very good points on Brian Deer, the wonder boy of the vaccine industry.
...Seven years on a five page paper and the points he makes can be shot down in about 90 seconds... and no one knows where Mr. Deer gets his money...
January 29, 2011 at 11:13 PM
can someone remind me again why the study in Finland was so bogus? I need some talking points? Great job Mark, as always, cool calm and collected, as opposed to the biotch doctors who looked ashamed and the look of oh no, this parent knows his crap...love it.
By the way, they would pick Finland to study mercury, being that it is high in selenium, which would basically protect more children, and, they don't eat our western diet, which adds to the oxidative stress.
kathy blanco |
January 29, 2011 at 09:03 PM
Mark did an excellent job in this broadcast interview. It was inspiring to listen to him, however it is disheartening to listen to the vaccine supporters spew out the same old party line. No matter how much evidence is brought forth, they just stonewall their minds.
As Mark said, he has spoken to thousands of parents who witnessed their children regress into autism in direct relation to vaccines. The parents of children that Wakefield treated for bowel disease witnessed their child regress after MMR, and many other parents have brought these claims in vaccine court in America. If "eye witness testimony" is no longer valid legal evidence, we would have to release all of the criminals in jails who were convicted on the basis of eye witness testimony. Big Pharma would have never agreed to vaccine injuries being tried by jury like all other cases of injury are. If the vaccine injury cases would have continued to be heard in the court system, there would have been a million cases won by now. The vaccine industry knew that if they were going to massively increase the vaccine schedule they would have to be protected from liability because they KNEW that the more vaccines that were pumped into vulnerable little babies and children, the more damage was going to be done. Those at the top that orchestrated all of this are criminals, and hopefully they will find themselves being charged in a REAL court for their crimes against humanity.
January 29, 2011 at 08:14 PM
I have really already answered your question. Chadwick couldn't find it: O'Leary did using more advanced techniques, and so did others, but for political reasons they have been sheepish about declaring it. An initial set of negative results was not sufficient reason to not look further. I don't think the whole issue has been answered (and I don't think Wakefield thinks it has) but there are patently cases of this kind and children being denied adequate medical treatment, including ridiculous papers which try to make out that there are no issues regarding autism and gut problems. For instance, these by Emond (who failed to disclose twice that he was member of the UK Joint Committee on Vaccines and Immunisation).
It was part of the oscenity of the GMC that the prosecution and ultimately the panel made out that the children were not ill. Those that I heard about are still very ill.
John Stone |
January 29, 2011 at 06:27 PM
Thanks John S
The problem I have with Andrew W's data is the evidence from Neil Chadwick in the Royal Free labs, in Wakefield's own hospital, that the tissue samples were all negative for measles virus by more specific PCR testing, why has he never answered this issue, he must have known the negative data when the paper was published. If only he had stopped at the gut issue/autism link he would have done far more good for the autism community, why did he go onto the MMR link on the basis of negative data, I don't understand
January 29, 2011 at 05:52 PM
The thing that should get so many people is the statement that was made not only here, but on the Fox News is that 10 doctors that orginally signed their names have since withdrew their names.
wellll what does that mean?
You put your name on a study just hap hazardly in the first place and then think about it afterwards, and decide all on your own weeeellll maybe that ain't right.
The only one that did not withdraw his name has to face GMC court, and loses his liscense to practice medicine. And on national TV says he lost his profession and country -- speaks volumes to anyone paying attention.
They did us a favor every time they say that 10 signed the study to begin with.
January 29, 2011 at 05:23 PM
That interview was a study in stagnant medical stereotypes. Drs. Ramer and DeMuth kept their talking points as coached. They referred to "the preponderence of the science" without mentioning it's industry funded and highly questionable -- even fraudulent. I hope they will make time to investigate Mark's many corrections of their scripted babble.
Self-professed "iconoclast" Dr. Ramer claimed to be open-minded, but shut the door on vaccine injury investigation. She's busy looking into copper instead of mercury, though Pfeiffer Treatment Center in Illinois is many years ahead of her.
Dr. DeMuth robotically repeated AAP trade union talking points as if she had a wind-up key in her back. She breezily endorsed the administration of 4 to 5 vaccines at once, seemingly without realizing that they have not been tested for safety in combination.
These doctors want to keep pulling the old vaccine wagon like blinkered dray horses, oblivious to the hazards they're creating for patients. I don't know which is worse -- the party-line parrot, or the faux questioner.
January 29, 2011 at 04:17 PM
You shouldn't believe all you read. It was perfectly reasonable to continue to look at the possibility of MMR being implicated even if initial results were negative, and the presence of measles RNA was later confirmed by the O'Leary lab.
Were the O'Leary results dubious? Not according to the Hornig paper, which faced both ways (and anyway detected measles RNA in two of subjects, on case, one control, but with both bowel disease and both having had MMR). This is what Hornig said in the discussion:
"Our results differ with reports noting MV RNA in ileal biopsies of 75% of ASD vs. 6% of control children... Discrepancies are unlikely to represent differences in experimental technique because similar primer and probe sequences, cycling conditions and instruments were employed in this and earlier reports; furthermore, one of the three laboratories participating in this study performed the assays described in earlier reports. Other factors to consider include differences in patient age, sex, origin (Europe vs. North America), GI disease, recency of MMR vaccine administration at time of biopsy, and methods for confirming neuropsychiatric status in cases and controls."
Even Stephen Bustin confirmed that the O'Leary results were reliable for high copy numbers at the Cedillo hearing (although the inconvenient facts were passed over by the special masters):
The position of Hornig is really quite hard to fathom. Wouldn't the natural conclusion of their paper have been that more research was required? This is the politics leading the science.
John Stone |
January 29, 2011 at 04:06 PM
Thank you and Great job, Mark.. Regarding the doctor and her studies... Is there a way to point out point blank during interviews that there are no studies done on combining 5 or 6 vaccines? Can you ask them... "where are the studies done with combinations of 5 or 6 vaccines to show they are safe?" Ask them to show the evidence rather than just claim it is out there... Tell them you would like to meet them again on TV to see what they were able to dig up... Go ahead... make them look stupid. Those doctors are being negligent with their facts. The one just wants to shoot kids up and it is so saddening. But you could tell by her personality that she is not a thinker.. She just does as she is told to fit in. I felt sorry for her. She really looked like an idiot. If she wants to fit into the idiot box, she did a good job.
January 29, 2011 at 03:59 PM
Actually the bottom line of the Wakefield paper was: "In most cases onset was after measles, mumps and rubella immunisations. Further investigations are needed to examine this syndrome and its association with autism"
But earlier on in the paper the authors state "we did not prove an association between MMR vaccination and the syndrome described"
I'm not clear what were Wakefield et al were actually saying, I guess if they stopped at the histology findings life would be a lot simpler and maybe advanced for autism parents, seems his preliminary +ve measles findings were later contradicted by PCR analysis
January 29, 2011 at 03:27 PM
Great job, Mark! I don't know how you manage to so calmly and rationally defend your (and our) position, when your opponents in these interviews always tend to be at least five years behind in their research. Nice work, as always!
Donna L. |
January 29, 2011 at 03:19 PM
I wish that journalists could get this simple fact right: the co-authors of the Lancet paper did not retract the findings of the paper. They said they shouldn't have repeated the parents' claim that MMR caused their children's autistic regression. Here's the "retraction":
"The main thrust of this paper was the first description of an unexpected intestinal lesion in the children reported. Further evidence has been forthcoming in studies from the Royal Free Centre for Paediatric Gastroenterology and other groups to support and extend those findings. While much uncertainty remains about the nature of these changes, we believe it important that such work continues, as autistic children can potentially be helped by recognition and treatment of gastrointestinal problems.
We wish to make it clear that in this paper no causal link was established between MMR vaccine and autism as the data were insufficient. However, the possibility of such a link was raised and consequent events have had major implications for public health. In view of this, we consider that now is the appropriate time that we should together formally retract the interpretation placed upon these findings, according to precedent.
Simon H. Murch
David H. Casson
Amar P. Dhillon
Michael A. Thomson
Susan E. Davies
John A. Walker-Smith"
January 29, 2011 at 12:50 PM
Funny how Hannah Poling's Mito Dys was extremely rare and then it wasn't. These docs have got to start realizing they're not fooling anyone who's interested and has internet connection. What they're really doing is trying to calm their own conscious when they are confronted with the fact that a practice they have participated in and promoted has caused unspeakable damage for decades. It's the pathetic truth about our fallen human nature to run from the truth when it condemns us. But there is forgiveness for those whom the Truth has broken.
Adam M |
January 29, 2011 at 11:11 AM
Mark, The hour-long TV was riveting - Thanks so much. It is truly exasperating to see the dogmatically pro-vaccine pediatrician and the other somewhat open dr. (self-described as iconoclastic) also saying the case was basically closed on vaccine-autistic damage.
However, can I talk with you "like a brother" on a major issue that was left out by everyone on the TV show including yourself. Nobody talked about all the other components in vaccines that may certainly be many, if not most, of the 'smoking guns' that cause terrible damage - not just the different mercury compounds.
Just a few of these (Mark, I know you know this, but for the other readers) are the aluminum adjuvants, other adjuvants, all the other foreign protein, and contaminants (contaminants are frequently present from my reading) that all may wreak havoc in a baby.
The recent febrile seizures brought by flu shots to U.S. infants (and the carnage of Aussie kids last year where mercury is omitted in their flu shots) are examples.
Anyway, love your work - and the book by you and Dan and the tireless energy you both put out. Thank you.
david burd |
January 29, 2011 at 08:58 AM
A great interview on Mark's part. He made the 2 women sound like 5th graders. Someone should only give Wakefield that much opportunity to speak his side. Thanks, Mark. Maurine
Maurine meleck |
January 29, 2011 at 08:54 AM
Well done, Mark. Thanks for not letting Nell McCormack Abom (the host) skip over the misinformation leaked by Cynthia and Jeannette. Someday I'd like to see you pump up the androgen and come out swinging. You sang the right tune for this audience, though. Best moment: offering to meet with Cynthia as a "fellow iconoclast." I hope that meeting happens.
Dan E. Burns - SavingBenBook.com |
January 29, 2011 at 08:24 AM
Wow - Mark Blaxill did a GREAT job! Way to correct Dr. Ramer and her silly "viral particle" comment!
January 29, 2011 at 08:15 AM
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