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Dr. David Gorski Jumps the Shark over Desiree Jennings Case

Orac Jumping the Shark Managing Editor's Note: My apologies to Jim Henson and The Fonz for the photo, artfully created by the fabulous Adriana Gamondes.(You do remember the Happy Days episode from whence the term, "Jump the shark*" came, don't you?)  KS

By J.B. Handley
 
Dr. David Gorski, the bitchy diva of Scienceblogs, who typically blogs as a guy named “Orac” but apparently sometimes blogs as a girl named “SoCalGal”, is a sputtering mess over the Desiree Jennings case.
 
For those of you unfamiliar with this odious “doctor”, note that he is exceptionally proud of himself for his blogging status:
 
“As far as I've yet been able to ascertain, I'm the only academic surgeon with R01 funding in the world with an active -- and, even more shockingly, even a somewhat popular -- blog.”
 
He’s also very proud that he got into medical school:
 
“I got into the University of Michigan Medical School, which got around 3,000 applications every year for around 180 positions.”
 
And, that he studied like a real demon:
 
“So insane was I that one year I took 17 credits in the fall semester, all but 3 of which were hard-core science classes, including graduate level biochemistry, and then did the same thing again the next semester.”
 
And, his hobbies are quite expansive:
 
“My recreation of choice most evenings these days is to blog. It truly is my hobby.”
 
But enough on his fascinating background.
 
I remain amazed by Dr. Gorski’s angry, disrespectful, biting, caustic, and immature approach that he uses in criticizing other physicians who he doesn’t agree with. You want to take a guy like me to task, no problem. But, physician to physician? It strikes me as being wildly unprofessional, particularly in an area like medicine, where so much remains that we truly do not understand.

Dr. Gorski, I know why other scientists and doctors don’t blog: they are interested in maintaining a decorum and professionalism in their chosen profession that you have long since abandoned. How does his blogging style translate to Dr. Gorski’s bedside manner with patients? Let’s just hope he has multiple personalities.
 
The Desiree Jennings case appears to be bringing out the absolute worst in many of the bloggers who oppose our community. As one example, I read a post by Dr. Steven Novella where he “reported” on a string of events involving Generation Rescue and the Desiree Jennings case that had no basis in reality and was simply false. We have neurologists breaking tabloid-level stories? Dr. Novella as investigative journalist? Too funny.
 
In no particular order, the Desiree Jennings case appears to be causing doctors to break all sorts of medical ethical boundaries including:
 
-     Challenging Ms. Jennings’ original diagnosis of dystonia. Since when do doctors make long-distance video-only diagnoses? Don’t these doctors realize, by offering up potentially false commentary on the nature of Ms. Jennings diagnosis in a story that has captivated the world, that they will one day be called to task for such a glaring breach of medical ethics?
 
-     Claiming Ms. Jennings condition is all in her head. For parents of children with autism, this one has a familiar ring. How on earth do Doctors like Gorski and Novella dare throw out a psychological diagnosis on a patient they have never examined? Thank God she found a doctor who knew it was all in her body.
 
-     Claiming the flu shot couldn’t possibly cause her condition. Once again, how on earth does a long-distance doctor determine this? Vaccines cause a wide variety of side-effects, but Ms. Jennings’ condition just couldn’t be vaccine-induced? To hell with what doctors who did examine her actually determined, we are the only arbiters of truth. It’s nuts.
 
-     Claiming she couldn’t possibly recover from a condition she didn’t even have. Forget the HBOT, chelation, B-12, vitamins, etc., Ms. Jennings couldn’t possibly recover, much like our kids never do, either.
 
It’s great to watch these “doctors” dig themselves into a bigger and bigger hole. I’m not sure doctors like David Gorski realizes how silly their comments look to the average American and how much they have exposed themselves as the true story of what Desiree went through emerges. Thank you, Orac, for showing the world your true colors, because the world is most certainly watching.
 
For a radio broadcast featuring the Jennings and their doctor listen HERE.

J.B. Handley is Co-Founder of Generation Rescue

*Jump the shark is most commonly thought of in television terms. Jump the shark is a term that can now be used for anything that has turned stale or mediocre. It has left the arena of pop culture and strayed into real life. Jump the shark can now be applied to the boss who pushes too far, or even the partner with the sell-by date that is beginning to peel off. www.Wisegeek.com.

Aw heck, enjoy the video clip. "Sunday, Monday Happy Days!"  Kim

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"Dr. Gorski, I know why other scientists and doctors don’t blog: they are interested in maintaining a decorum and professionalism in their chosen profession that you have long since abandoned. How does his blogging style translate to Dr. Gorski’s bedside manner with patients? Let’s just hope he has multiple personalities."

I was interested in reading about what was really wrong with Desiree Jennings. While reading a very well written, diplomatic, and kind blog that was most informative, I clicked on a link to this piece of garbage. I read as far as the quote that I included and then just had to tell you to get a life. You are catty, rude, ostentatious, and unimpressive.

It's nice to have people exposing the truth for sometimes people hide behind degrees and titles.

Keep Kicking Their Ass J.B. I thoroughly enjoy reading your articles, however I must discontinue reading the comments by these idiots who actually believe that they are geniuses, due to a medical condition, namely my blood pressure is skyrocketing. [But hey don't they have a vaccine for that?]

I went on to Orac's site and I have to say to this community that I feel I really let myself and anyone questioning vaccine safety down. I did make some good points, I think, on vaccine "safety" (lack of) and pharma not responding to their market- I mean if only 50 ish % of people are now getting H1N1 vaccine, that really says they have to work on some trust issues with the public( their market).
However, I got so infuriated that I ended up swearing my brains out and I feel I let myself get sucked into some hellish vortex. I won't be bothered with going there ever again.

Desirees first symptomns have been descibed as 'flu-like'....

okay-
I don't want to take away from how important and serious this issue is, but........
the FONZ video is so freakin funny!!!!

I had NO idea that is where the term 'jumped the shark' came from! I don't ever remember seeing that episode~

Love it Kim!
Thanks for the laugh!

Another reason to think that it's possibly the vaccine? According to the VAERS report that may or may not be hers, she began experiencing symptoms within the first 3 days of her vaccination. Symptoms worsened over the next 10 days until she was admitted to the ER.

"OK, I admit I was wrong about the seizures. I can admit when I'm wrong - a talent I rarely need to call upon, but it's useful in the rare cases when I do"

Joe/Gorski/TroofDodger,
And there's my beef with you. You come in with the impression that you THINK you're right. What you've told us is that you're a PhD. What you've shown us is that you're an immature troll who has no concept of how reality works. But, you're KICKING OUR ASS (said with as much scorn and mockery as a human being can possibly muster...keep that in mind).

Here's the recap; you are basing your assumptions off of a VAERS "report" (which was from someone's blog) that may or may not be her. There are numerous reports on the VAERS database, and it may not have even been her. There is no report from the attending neurologist saying that he even admitted that he reported her reaction to VAERS. Wisely, he also hasn't come forth and given his opinion, because even he wasn't sure. You are basing your assumptions on a VAERS report that may or may not even be about Ms. Jennings. Real science doesn't work that way, and a real scientist wouldn't make the conclusions you and Novella have made without seeing ALL of the evidence. But, YOU'RE KICKING OUR ASS!!

Secondly, you are basing your conclusions on watching a video, and so are the other people. Real science doesn't work that way. A real doctor or scientist would not so definitively say that her condition is psychogenic without seeing ALL of the evidence. But, YOU'RE KICKING OUR ASS!!

Thirdly, she was diagnosed by more than one doctor. I take her word for it, because frankly, I'll take her word over the word of some anonymous troll any day of the week and twice on Sundays. But, since you don't have her medical records from the other doctors who diagnosed her, you can't honestly say her condition is psychogenic with any amount of certainty. But, YOU'RE KICKING OUR ASS!!

Her condition wasn't cured after "15 minutes." That is an outright lie. According to Dr. Buttar, it took a minimum of 36 hours. That is yet another lie that we've caught you in. But, YOU'RE KICKING OUR ASS!!

Here's the deal, joe/Gorski/TroofPucker...a REAL doctor wouldn't make the outrageous claims that you and Novella have WITHOUT looking at ALL of the evidence. And making your dishonest claims and spreading your misinformation is a detriment to her and other vaccine injured people. I agree that it may not have been Dystonia. However, I do NOT claim it is psychogenic because I have not seen ALL of the evidence. Your blatant and outright cruel dismissal of her condition is a true credit to you profession (/sarcasm).

The question you need to truthfully ask yourself is this;

If her condition was the result of a reaction to anything else other than a vaccine, would you and Novella have treated her the same way?

My opinion? No, you would not have.

'The admitting neurologist, who was not a generalist, because he was a neurologist, said it was psychogenic'

i believe the phrasing was ' felt to have a psychogenic component'.

So when is 'felt' a proof of certainty. DUSTONIA is just a label for aset of symptomns....Dont take it as the real illness, which the detox proved was due to vaccine poisoning.

OK, I admit I was wrong about the seizures. I can admit when I'm wrong - a talent I rarely need to call upon, but it's useful in the rare cases when I do.

I was right about everything else: 1) that the only MD who says her illness is not psychogenic, is Buttar 2) that psychogenic dystonia and indeed seizures, do exist and 3) that it is impossible that chelation could cure true dystonia caused by mercury damage within 15 minutes.

The last point is the real clincher. 15 minutes of chelation wouldn't even be enough to flush the mercury out of her bloodstream, *let alone begin to reverse any neurological damage*. Brain damage, if it is reversible at all, takes weeks to heal. For God's sake, if you have a headache it takes make more than 15 minutes for ASPRIN to work!

Could someone explain that, please?

As for joe, I'm not joe. Perhaps you think that there is only one person in the world who disagrees with you, i.e. that there is only one person in the world smarter than you. You're out by about 6.8 billion.

Dear Joe a.k.a TruthPuncher,

You said the following:
"The only person who says it is not psychogenic is Desiree herself. Dr. Buttar, the man who is taking credit for helping her recover did not even say she had dystonia, indeed if she did have dystonia, his treatments WOULD NOT WORK."

I hate it so much that idiots like you go so far as to lie about what people said. Its like you guys have to make up shit to try and prove your point.

Dr. Buttar never said she did not have Distonia. He clearly said "The bottom line is that in 36 hours this distonia that was caused by we know what, that was supposedly irreversible is now reversed and it was purely a matter of toxicity that was removed out of her system." http://tinyurl.com/ylmclkj

If you don't believe me click on the link and listen to him for yourself. By the way Dr. Buttar mentions that she was seizing like seven times in the interview.

Dr. Buttar also said the following:
"Anybody who says that this woman was dealing with a psychogenic issue or that it was in her head they are going to embarrass themselves when they see the video of her seizing...and will be laughed at and lose any credibility by making those statements."

Joe please stop for the sake of your Gorski Club. I am now starting to feel sorry for you guys.

I don't understand this
The admitting neurologist, who was not a generalist, because he was a neurologist, said it was psychogenic, all neurologists who have examined the video siad it was psychogenic, the dystonia society said it was psychogenic. The only person who says it is not psychogenic is Desiree herself. Dr. Buttar, the man who is taking credit for helping her recover did not even say she had dystonia, indeed if she did have dystonia, his treatments WOULD NOT WORK.

So really, even the guy on your side doesn't say she has dystonia, why are you all clinging to this wrong diagnosis?

Psychogenic does not mean she is faking it, psychogenic illnesses can be very real, I've had first hand experience with them. IT does not suggest anything about desiree is a fraud, but it does suggest that vaccines are not to blame here. At the end of the day, thats what we are really arguing about. You guys think she was injured by a vaccine, and truthpuncher and I don't

Admitting physicians at emergency rooms are generalists, not specialists, forced to make hasty decisions. As in the case of someone I know (a pre-med student) in which he suggested lyme disease but was brushed off by the ER doc. Later lyme WAS confirmed by another doctor, who ordered appropriate lab tests.

I wonder how much iatrogenic damage is prevented by second or third opinions....

Hey, bensmyson,

"What evidence is there that she NEVER suffered from seizures?"

He doesn't have any since, apparently, he is unable to read. Strange that someone with a PhD can't read...and since I was going for mine until recently, I can honestly say that it takes extensive reading.

This is from the VAERS report of the person whom he alleges is Ms. Jennings:

"The fatigue continued for almost 2 weeks during which the patient continued to work, but on 9/12/09 she presented to the ED with generalized weakness, lightheadedness and an episode of syncopy that was accompanied by generalized convulsions."

I guess he doesn't realize that convulsions are the same as seizures. Oh well. Glad to see he got that "PhD."

Keep on going, there, "Truth"Dodger!

Heidi@”There is something very wrong when successful health recoveries get criticized instead of embraced. It makes you wonder just how many people don't want others to get well. What purpose would it serve to have more people on disability?"

Heidi, that just sums it all up. It sums up what neurodiverse are all about, and what orac et al are all about. To have autism as a treatable biomedical disorder just destroys their sense of self, it strikes to the very core of their being.

By default, anything that links to autism as a biological disorder that can be triggered by external factors, such as vaccines, further erodes their self image (hence hatred for anyone with vaccine injuries that resemble any aspect of autism).

And yes, having more people with disability adds to their sense of self worth. The more a treatment for autism (or any injury resembling aspects of autism) is likely to pull kids off the spectrum, the more viciously they will attack it. They are not about science or medicine or helping anyone, they are about preserving their fragile egos.

Jake - Well well, it appears you can read - well done! And you accept that psychogenic dystonia exists - double well done! You know you're a lot smarter than the rest of these folks - you should go and work for Orac!

Now let's get down to business:

"Did any of the idiots who the DMRF examine her or her medical records? NO"

No, but the admitting neurologist did, and he diagnosed psychogenic dystonia. Also, you'll note that it says that psychogenic dystonia "may closely resemble" organic dystonia - not that it always does. Some cases are pretty obvious. Like this one.

"If you can't make a final diagnosis based on these qualities from an actual examination, you cannot possibly do so from film."

No-one was making a diagnosis based on severity or duration, they were looking at her symptom profile (the specific movements).

"In other words, even dystonias labeled "psychogenic" can also have a neurological basis."

No you're missing the point, all they're saying there is that ultimately psychogenic illness must have a neural basis because all thoughts and beliefs are stored somewhere in the brain. Which is true, I suppose, but doesn't change the fact that psychogenic symptoms are psychogenic.

"I've heard nothing about her having any kind of these sorts of problems before this, yet everybody insists it is psychogenic anyway. Meanwhile, they have yet to identify a psychiatric factor."

It says the underlying psychological cause varies. Meaning it could be anything. No-one knows what it is.

"So the chance she even has psychogenic dystonia is exceedingly small, roughly the same as the prevalence of savants among us autistics."

No, the fact that it's rare doesn't mean the chance that *she specifically* has it is low. Because there is strong evidence that it is psychogenic. Look - being struck by lightning is very very rare but if you saw someone get hit by a bolt of blue light from the sky and fall down, you'd probably think it had happened to them.

"So, the DMRF may have consulted with some "experts," who gave their opinion as to what Desiree's case "looks like," but according to the information on the DMRF's own website, their opinion means nothing."

No, because this is a particularly blatant case of psychogenic illness - the DMRF are just pointing out that *sometimes* it's very difficult to diagnose.

You don't seriously think that the DMRF would go against their own advice do you? Who the hell do you think they are, some cowboy outfit?

"You are so right about hystero-epilepsy, I mean psychogenic siezures. It is not faked, that's for sure. Dr. Charcot can attest to that."

Ever read Charcot? He's really quite interesting. Unfortunately he didn't have a blog. And he wrote on *paper* with *ink* - you should try reading a book one day instead of getting all your education from blogs.

Anyway, of course, fortunately we don't have to rely on Charcot's opinion because any medical textbook will confirm that psychogenic seizures do indeed exist. Careful with those medical textbooks though, they're pretty heavy - heavy books, heavy metals... SEE THE CONNECTION!? I can see why you don't like them.

LOL at Truth

Hey man, we were there watching your back, weren't we? I'll get you some bandages. And I'll get Kelli Ann to make you hold her purse.

;-p

"TruthPuncher, if I say enough bad words will I be the one winning?"

No, you get to win when you show evidence that supports your beliefs - it's easy when you get the hang of it!

"Im just a teensy bit curious, have you met Ms Jennings Mr. Toothpuncher?"

No, which is why I don't try to diagnose her, I go by the opinion of the neurologists who have. I've got a low opinion of my own abilities when it comes to diagnosing dystonia, believe it or not, because I'm not qualified. Neither are you.

"Truth puncher, I really don't see you kicking any ass here. Rather, I see your ass getting kicked."

This is an autism blog - the blogs for the visually impaired are over there: http://www.familyconnect.org/parentsitehome.asp

Teresa: Sorry for ignoring you.

Did John Hopkins diagnose her with dystonia? Says who - Fox News. Who else?

The only MD who is actually on record as thinking she has dystonia is Buttar. However given that he managed to "cure" her within 15 minutes through chelation - which is absolutely impossible, 15 minutes of chelation wouldn't even remove the "mercury" from her bloodstream let alone begin to reverse the neurological damage - his actions prove that her illness was psychogenic even if he himself doesn't see that.

The following MDs are on record as thinking she has psychogenic illness -

* The admitting neurologist (see the VAERS record) - http://www.examiner.com/x-13791-Baltimore-Disease-Prevention-Examiner~y2009m11d4-Records-show-case-of-dystonia-is-psychogenic-and-not-related-to-flu-vaccine
* Dr. Stephen Grill who appeared on Fox News - http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/health/102109_desiree_jennings_dystonia_explained
* A number of experts from the Dystonia Medical Research Foundation "unanimously" - http://www.dystonia-foundation.org/pages/dystonia___flu_vaccine/569.php

I am here to side with "Truth" who has been pummeled well and good. Nothing more to see here, Truthpuncher and punchees. Let's move along, move along... Thank you.

Kim

Aggghhhh-- I am truth and I am bleeding. I've been kicked and punched. I think I have a broken rib. Please stop the weird guy who keeps writing with violent imagery in place of making coherant arguments before he comes back and mangles me some more...

Truthpuncher (you have definitely roughed up the truth on this thread), here is the page on psychogenic dystonia from that same source:
http://www.dystonia-foundation.org/pages/more_info/86.php

Psychogenic Dystonia:

Symptoms
Psychogenic dystonia may closely resemble “organic” (i.e. non-psychogenic) dystonias, and in most cases only an experienced movement disorder expert can identify the subtle aspects of an individual’s history and physical examination that support a psychogenic cause for the symptoms."

Did any of the idiots who the DMRF examine her or her medical records? NO

"Therefore, the severity of dystonia and disability that it causes is not helpful in differentiating between psychogenic and non-psychogenic dystonia. Nor is the duration of the problem useful."

If you can't make a final diagnosis based on these qualities from an actual examination, you cannot possibly do so from film.

"Cause
Psychogenic dystonia is considered a form of “conversion disorder.” By this we mean that psychological/psychiatric dysfunction causes physical signs and symptoms. Exactly how and why this occurs is not well understood. It is increasingly recognized that disturbances of brain function do underlie the occurrence of neurological conversion symptoms."

In other words, even dystonias labeled "psychogenic" can also have a neurological basis.

"The underlying psychiatric disturbance varies from patient to patient."

I've heard nothing about her having any kind of these sorts of problems before this, yet everybody insists it is psychogenic anyway. Meanwhile, they have yet to identify a psychiatric factor.

Prevalence among Dystonias:

"Cases of psychogenic dystonia may account for less than 3% of all dystonia patients."

So the chance she even has psychogenic dystonia is exceedingly small, roughly the same as the prevalence of savants among us autistics.

Diagnosis:

"Given the complexities of the diagnosis of dystonia in general, the diagnosis of psychogenic dystonia can only be made by a physician with considerable experience in the field of dystonia and other abnormal movement disorders, often working in partnership with a psychiatric expert in conversion disorders. Patients must be evaluated several times or over a prolonged period before a definitive diagnosis of psychogenic dystonia can be made. A single psychiatric interview is not sufficient to demonstrate the underlying psychiatric dysfunction. Additionally, the presence of overt psychiatric illness in an individual with dystonia is not necessarily support for a “psychogenic” diagnosis. The association may be coincidental or the disability and physical disturbances caused by dystonia can result in psychiatric dysfunction such as depression. Other causes of dystonia must be considered and appropriately excluded using a variety of investigations."

So, the DMRF may have consulted with some "experts," who gave their opinion as to what Desiree's case "looks like," but according to the information on the DMRF's own website, their opinion means nothing.

Truthpuncher-

You are an anonymous poster (yet familiar)who has thus far ignored my posts, as you apparently can't think of a good enough lie or smart ass comment.

The debate about Desiree having vs not having dystonia is ridiculous and I think it's time to move on. Johns Hopkins diagnosed her so if you have any beef about it, you can contact them.

It's one thing to talk or debate but the whackosphere characters always have to make it sarcastic with the narcissism oozing.
Soon you'll be attacking the 14 yo boy saying he, too is faking...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33845867/ns/health-cold_and_flu/

"Now you're accusing the admitting neurologist of incompetence."

Which you just did regarding the other doctors that diagnosed her with vaccine injury. Well, at least we now know that only the first doctor got it right.. and all those other ones looking at youtube videos.

You are so right about hystero-epilepsy, I mean psychogenic siezures. It is not faked, that's for sure. Dr. Charcot can attest to that.

p.s. truthpucher, I don't think the Johns Hopkins and Fairfax people can exactly change their diagnosis just because some other doctor helped her.

Truth puncher, I really don't see you kicking any ass here. Rather, I see your ass getting kicked. I just asked a question; you inferred that the admitting neuro may be an "idiot." Take a breath.

"You - with no qualifications, who have never met her - are saying you know better than an expert who has met her." said Toothpuncher

Im just a teensy bit curious, have you met Ms Jennings Mr. Toothpuncher? Are you qualified to dx her any better than Dr. Buttar?

And then there is this:
"She never suffered from seizures. Some TV stations reported that she did but there's no evidence she had any seizures. "

What evidence is there that she NEVER suffered from seizures?

TruthPuncher, if I say enough bad words will I be the one winning?

By the way, I also read your so called proof and you are just making a fool of yourself. If Gorski is reading this please get a handle on your boy because he is making your crew look like amateurs.

"Very amusing, but I would recommend you focus on Desiree Jennings rather than getting distracted by name because at the moment I'm kicking your ass."

From this single, spittle-flecked rant, it is easy to tell just how much trouble we are all in medically.

Everyone, people like this are the ones diagnosing our children, treating our sick, and running the medical industry.

God help us!


"You - with no qualifications, who have never met her - are saying you know better than an expert who has met her".

Sorry for the sidetrack... BUT... This has always been my issue with your side - the wackosphere. The Orac's of the world - or Pr(Offit's) - Do not treat children with autism. They never have. They have no clue about these kids medical issues. Yet... somehow they consider themselves 'experts'? The wackosphere should STFU until they start treating/advising children with autism. (actually though... I don't think that I would want any of these people near any children with autism). Maybe it's best to simply hope that they STFU and stop making fools of themselves.

By the way, take your PhD and shove it. Haven't you ever heard of the fact that some of the most intelligent people in the world... completely lack common sense? This is a very well know fact. There's probably even a double-blinded study out there somewhere to prove it. I'm off to google it now.


"Very amusing, but I would recommend you focus on Desiree Jennings rather than getting distracted by name because at the moment I'm kicking your ass"

Oh, wow....he's suddenly regressed to grade school maturity! Are you sure you aren't Orac?

No, about the only thing you've accomplished, TruthDodger, is proving to us that you are likely not this "PhD" you claim you are and that you are simply an ignorant and stupid troll of Oraccian proportions. Someone with a PhD would be able to understand that concept.

So, to recap....who do we believe? Desiree Jennings, or some anonymous troll who claims to have a PhD but who in actuality is more than likely some 12 year old who thinks he is more intelligent than everyone else but. Hmmmm....that's a really tough one.

"Truthpuncher. Great name-- made up on the spur of the moment, right? Do you actually...punch truth? Like physically assault it-- make it bleed? Does it beg for mercy? Where do you bury the evidence?"

Very amusing, but I would recommend you focus on Desiree Jennings rather than getting distracted by name because at the moment I'm kicking your ass.

"Am I missing something or wouldn't the fact of an EEG or CT scan tell the story? Maybe the admitting neuro guy didn't do those whereas they did at Johns Hopkins etc. I think it is disgusting that she has been maligned so badly."

Now you're accusing the admitting neurologist of incompetence. Of course he would have run the appropriate tests unless he's an idiot. You - with no qualifications, who have never met her - are saying you know better than an expert who has met her.

"It's stupid for people to say that she didn't have dystonia, because her movements (which define dystonia) are recorded on video."

Her movements are a bit dystonia-like but they don't even fit the criteria for dystonia. This is the opinion of dystonia experts: http://www.dystonia-foundation.org/pages/dystonia___flu_vaccine/569.php

"If she was faking it, that would be extraordinary acting. And it would be hard to fake seizures."

She never suffered from seizures. Some TV stations reported that she did but there's no evidence she had any seizures. For your information, however, it is possible to fake seizures and it's also possible to have psychogenic seizures.

This is all moot however because no-one is suggesting that she is faking or acting. Not Novella, not Orac, not me. We are saying that the symptoms are real but that they have a psychogenic rather than a neurological basis. If that's too subtle for you I'd be happy to explain further.

Hey, TruthDodger?

We're just supposed to take your word for it that you have these credentials, right? Nice and anonymous here. Got it.

I don't have my PhD...yet. I'm currently taking a break from it due to my wife's health problems. But that shouldn't really matter, should it, since you didn't actually read my post?

He was ONE DOCTOR! He was the admitting physician at the ER. She has seen several doctors since then. And yes, it could have been someone else (no, you didn't actually link to the VAERS database...you linked to someone's blog site. A blog site is not VAERS....your PhD should be able to tell the difference). And it may not have been Dystonia; it could have been something else, i.e. a severe form of GBS, for example, which has been linked to Flu vaccines and can be recovered from. But calling it psychogenic without reviewing her records or talking to the other doctors who diagnosed her is dishonest and unprofessional....hey, sort of like you and another doctor we were talking about in this article.

Maybe getting a PhD causes stupidity in some people. We may need to have further research into that....

"Now, when are you going to apologize to us for being such an ass and for being completely wrong? And where did you get your MD or PhD from again?"

Cambridge University for my undergrad and Oxford University for my PhD. You may have heard of them. You? Age of Autism Medical College and the University of Whale.to doesn't count by the way.

I'll apologize for being wrong, when I'm shown to be wrong. I linked to the VAERS database - which clearly does refer to her unless you think there is another case, fitting the exact description, just by coincidence, at this point in time - which shows that the original physician diagnosed psychogenic illness. This is also the diagnosis of every dystonia who has seen her case.

We're told that "Johns Hopkins and Inova Fairfax" said it was dystonia - told by Fox - I have not seen this in writing - and I wonder if they have changed their opinion now that she has made a miraculous recovery 15 minutes after starting chelation therapy.

If she had dystonia as a result of neurological injury that would be quite impossible. You'd know that if you went to Oxford and Cambridge like me, although you'd also know that if you'd ever so much as looked at a biology textbook - neurological damage takes time to heal.

Teresa - We're talking about Desiree Jennings, not those people.

Like autism, dystonia appears to be defined by symptoms, not by etiology, and may have many causes:

"Dystonia: Involuntary movements and prolonged muscle contraction, resulting in twisting body motions, tremor, and abnormal posture. These movements may involve the entire body, or only an isolated area... Dystonia can be inherited, occur sporadically without any genetic pattern, or be associated with medications or diseases (for example, a specific form of lung cancer)."

"Involuntary slow, sustained muscle contractions resulting in abnormal postures and twisting motions of arms, legs, and trunk."

It's stupid for people to say that she didn't have dystonia, because her movements (which define dystonia) are recorded on video.

If she was faking it, that would be extraordinary acting. And it would be hard to fake seizures. And the doctors at Johns Hopkins surely had medical evidence upon which to base their opinions, unlike Orac and his fans.


This is Desiree's website; look at her now after Dr. Buttar treated her?
http://desireejennings.com/index.php

Now they want to take his license.

UPDATE – State Board Threatens Physician Who Cured Desiree Jennings of Dystonia.
http://www.drbuttar.com/blog/?p=660

http://www.lowellsfacts.com/biomedicaltreatment.html

There is something very wrong when successful health recoveries get criticized instead of embraced. It makes you wonder just how many people don't want others to get well. What purpose would it serve to have more people on disability?

Sometimes I wonder if the Internet has created a situation where knowledge can be shared to the point of increasing our ability to reverse all health conditions, since now we can find those who are successful at it, and the medical schools are just not able to keep up with the pace at which one can learn from the Internet. It would help if mainstream medical admitted this, instead of denying the reality of it all.

i got the swine flu vaccine yesterday and today i feel really sick. really swollen arm at site. feel dizzy too?

Interesting article on the boy who got GBS after his H1N1 shot (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33845867/ns/health-cold_and_flu/?gt1=43001)

Isn't Inova the same hospital system that initially treated Desiree Jennings? I wonder if these two people got their vaccines from the same batch.

Truthpuncher. Great name-- made up on the spur of the moment, right? Do you actually...punch truth? Like physically assault it-- make it bleed? Does it beg for mercy? Where do you bury the evidence?

Thank you for weeding out my comment as the one that made you nuts. I always feel like Miss America when this happens (right, Kim?).


Grammaknows, you said this
"This whole discussion is just goofy since drug induced dystonia is well documented to be reversible very quickly if given IVs that reverse the influence on cholinergic receptors (mercury influences cholinergic receptors)...so, hey, Joe? there are reasons for developing dystonia besides permanent brain injury."

IS that what happened to Ms. Jennings? Is that how she is being treated? Are any of the drugs you mention which are known to induce and fix dystonia in either flu vaccines or the treatment she is receiving now?

I don't recall her website mentioning anti cholinergic inhibiting drug therapy.


Why does it not surprise me in the least that the wackos are doing everything in their power to mock this young lady and anyone who actually tries to help her? Same old ...

As for another wacko... Did anyone catch Shady Snyderman on the Today Show today? There was a 12 year old girl on there who had a 'sneezing' problem ('sneezing' continuously). Now, I agreed with Shady that it looked more like a tic of some sort and I thought Tourette's perhaps... but my issue with Shady was that she pointed out on more than a few occasions that this could have stemmed from a psychological problem or that the girl needed to go see a child development doctor or something. At one point, she even mentioned Munchausen Syndrome? I just think that she was absolutely leaning towards made up or psychological problem as opposed to a medical concern. (ie environmental trigger of sort suddenly causing this)? I don't know... You can be the judge...

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/33852290/ns/today-today_health/

Am I missing something or wouldn't the fact of an EEG or CT scan tell the story? Maybe the admitting neuro guy didn't do those whereas they did at Johns Hopkins etc. I think it is disgusting that she has been maligned so badly.
Loved the Fonze vidio, thanks.

This whole discussion is just goofy since drug induced dystonia is well documented to be reversible very quickly if given IVs that reverse the influence on cholinergic receptors (mercury influences cholinergic receptors)...so, hey, Joe? there are reasons for developing dystonia besides permanent brain injury.

So for the self professed to be docs here - what were you doing the day they taught this stuff in med school?

Truthpuncher-

You ignored my earlier post so I went looking on VAERS to see what it said about some of the 67 cases of dystonia that you somehow think are unimportant to this case. I was absolutely sickened by the intensity of these symptoms. I also think your statement here:

"I say again - will any of you be apologizing now that it's turned out you were completely wrong?"

...is brazen bullshit and shows a glimmer of your own narcissism and allegiance to the Orac craziness. Nobody is wrong here about vaccines causing dystonia or that some can recover and some cannot.

Here are some cases that are vividly gut wrenching:

-"Severe movement disorder unable to eat, drink, walk, or talk, massive weight loss many hospital stays. Fight for life Aug 2005. PG tube placed for nutrients. 01/11/2007 MR received from local hospital. Multiple visits from 04/12/2005 to 09/01/2005. Visit 4/12/05-presents to ER 4 days s/p Td and Hep B vax with c/o being shaky and thrashing in her sleep. She progressed to having a twitch in her right shoulder, and fingers and feet noted to be stiff and awkward. Walking strangely. Picking at her face. Treated with Benadryl and discharged on Cogentin. DX: Dystonic Reaction. Visit 4/13/2005- return visit to ER on discharge day with c/o of worsening symptoms of stiffness and shaking. Tx'd with Benadryl. Risperdal stopped. DX: Dystonic Reaction. Visit 4/17/05-O/N ER admit for increasing extrapyramidal symptoms-jerking, shaking, picking, itching. chills and c/o left forearm and leg pain, as well as difficulty remembering names. PE: WNL except sustained clonus of ankles, downgoing toes, oral and lingual dyskinesias, Toewheeling, Cogwheeling, and antalgic gait. Treated with benadryl and transfered to a children's hospital. Fianl DX: Extrapyramidal symptoms. Visit 08/14/05- ER visit for worsening tremors and dystonia. Patient now presenting in a wheelchair. Unable to eat, drink, or sleep much x2days. Weight loss of 50# since 04/05. Txd with Valium to enable rest. DX: Neurological disorder with tremors. Visit 08/19/05-Evaluation for PEG tube insertion. Doing well with feeding tube place the day before. No PEG at this time. DX: ""Primary diagnosis is not yet established"", prognosis unknown. Visit 08/20/05- Visit to replace feeding tube which was accidentally pulled out. Visit 08/21/05-ER visit for c/o fever and continuing gross motor movements of the arms, legs, trunk, and head which prevent the child from sleeping. Transported to a children's hospital via Air transport. Assessment: 1)Severe Dystonia of idiopathic origin. 2) Fever R/O aspiration pneumonia 3)severe malnutrition and dehydration. Visit"

-21 y/o female seen in ER 13 May with C/O it hand & lt. foot numbness approximately 1 month post GARDASIL vaccine. She also C/O of nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. A heat CT demonstrated bilateral basal ganglion infarcts and a MRI showed with similar results with no acute process. She was admitted 20 May with left hemiballsmus. On 22 May her mental status declined. She received many doses of HALDOL and ATIVAN for agitation and was intubated on 28 May. She was transferred to medical center 28 may for w/u for encephalitis and has since become comatose. Symptoms: Nausea w/vomiting, Diarrhea, Nausea w/o vomiting, Numbness. 7/11/08 Reviewed hospital medical records for 6/11-6/23/2008. FINAL DX: aseptic meningo-encephalitis; choreoathetosis r/t meningo-encephalitis; paroxysmal autonomic instability w/dystonia; e. coli UTI. Records reveal pt transferred from military hospital. Military deployment 1-3/2008. On leave 5/2008 developed n/v/d, abd pain & bifrontal HA which continued to worsen. Sought medical help but no dx given. Developed left side weakness, flaccidity & several falls. Found 5/12 unable to ambulate & incontinent of urine. Taken to ER where MRI revealed possible basalganglia infarct. To ICU where subsequent MRIs were WNL. Ventilated & remains in persistent vegetative state. LPs done. PICC , trach & PEG tubes. Intermittently febrile, labile BP, asystole x2. Tx in multiple hospitals w/multiple meds including steroids, IVIG, antibiotics & antivirals. 12/11/08 Reviewed additional medical records of 5/08-7/08. FINAL DX: Records reveal patient experienced nausea/vomiting/diarrhea, dizziness & HA, left hand/foot numbness x 4-5 days. Seen in ER on 5/13 where labs were WNL but CT of brain revealed lacunar infarcts, bilateral basal ganglia & cavum verge. Numbness continued & developed involuntary jerking of LEs & difficulty walking. Admitted to MICU 6/08 w/encephalitis. Tx w/IVIG &

-Post vax, the pt presented with progressive confusion, crying spells, and social withdrawal. Three months after symptom onset, he developed intermittent dystonic posturing of the left arm and leg. Initial neurological exam was significant for dysarthria and myoclonus of the left arm and leg. During the fourth month of illness, the pt developed hyperreflexia, and extensor plantar responses. By the fifth month, the myoclonus ceased. He became unresponsive, mute, and displayed intermittent hyperreflexia and tachycardia suggesting autonomic dysfunction. He expired six months after the onset of symptoms. An autopsy was refused. The cause of death was subacute sclerosing panencephalitis. Information about this case is described in an unpublished manuscript entitled "Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis in US born adult"

-5 days after receiving DTaP, HIB, IPV, and Prevnar developed seizures. Admitted to hospital on 03/15/2003 for full sepsis work up (neg), MRI of head/EEG led to follow up by pediatric neurologist as requested. The hospital discharge summary received on 1/8/04 states paroxysmal dystonic arm movements, drooling, right caudate subacute hemorrhage, cough, and sneezing. Patient still having complex partial seizures.


Here are some that resolved:

-acute dystonic reaction 1hr p/vax, resolved p/25mg DPH IV & observation x 3hrs in ER:

-"The pt felt warm to the touch on the evening of 1/11/01. Woke at 6:50 a.m. with wheezing / problems breathing. The pt vomited 1 time and became limp. ? seizure. Seen in the doctors office. The follow-up states that she has an obvious left hemiparesis, and she has some dystonic posturing of her left hand. She walks well with a minimal limp. She has a migrational disorder. This gives her the motor handicap. Decided to start her on Tegretol. Follow up on 11/06/2003: ""Vaccine recipient did recover from the adverse event."

-This is a serious post marketed study case from a physician in the USA of who reports a patient experienced TONGUE DYSTONIA after receiving FluMist. The reporter determined the events to be possibly related to FluMist vaccination. On 10/29/04, a 9 year old male received FluMist intranasally and experienced dystonic tongue posturing as well as becoming glazed over on 11/01/04. The mother reported the patient was talking with his tongue thrust up behind his front teeth and was glazed over and just not himself. She also reports her son had some word finding problems for several weeks. Neurological findings stated the patient had a previous episode of prolonged dystonic tongue posturing in 1999 after a febrile seizure. The neurologist stated that this second episode is temporally related to a influenza nasal vaccine. Neurological findings further stated whether the vaccine was causative is not ascertainable, but should be reported as a possible adverse effect. The physician stated the duration of the event makes an epileptiform activity unlikely. The neurologist further stated that the fact the tongue dystonia involved talking activity of the the tongue and not eating activities was difficult to rationalize. An MRI will be performed looking for focal structure abnormality due to the recurrent nature of the events. No follow up is needed unless the event recurs. The patient recovered five weeks after the events began. The reporter determined the events to be possibly related to FluMist.

Mainstream medicine sucks on new discoveries that don't involve some doctor getting a kickback, or a pharmaceutical drug with a markup up of ten thousand percent or an insurance company approving it because it's standard care without the thinking outside of the box philosophies. Outside of the box thinkers are the ones who heal...always....

Yes, I am saying that they have known for decades on how to heal the brain...just like how they put UVBI out of business when antibiotics came on the scene...because there is no money in zapping blood/purifying it with light, as opposed to poisoning it with abx's/antivirals. Just like how they conveniently don't tell heart patients that it's not cholesterol that's killing them, but inflammation and infections in the heart (which can be treated with abx's at ten cents a pill). No, we can't have that can we, so we give them lipitor, (markup of twenty thousand percent), and other drugs that have nothing to do with reversing disease or preventing it. Most of mainstream medicine, never heals diseases only covers them up by symptom allieviation, and I beg for you to understand...that mainstream medicine is why I am on this forum....thanks for that guys....permanent disability in my children.

Hbot has been healing the brain for decades, but it's not in reach of most peoples pocketbooks, and for that matter, most of the chelation therapies our children enjoy, are not always covered either, nor the doctor visit. So, if your well endowed with money, it seems autism, and the brain injuries we often see, can be reversed IF CAUGHT EARLY (as in this case)...with the expertise of how to reverse it which always costs money and expertise. Unfortunately yes, those without the resources, who are told to live in denial/and untruths, are making a lot of children sick.

Yes, VIT C has done many wonders...you should try it sometime...Joe. Maybe it would clear your mind, chelate you of enough metals so that your personality (impulse control) will do a double check before posting awkward responses, so you can understand how to treat a parent in the trenches who sees things QUITE clear. My kids are not autistic , they are poisoned and seeded with retroviruses from vaccines. (see www.vactruth.com ) latest article on retroviruses as the bottom line illness in our kids.

I know this women has suffered, John Hopkins physicians are not stupid idiots. And I know, I have seen complete reversals of autism per Dr Buttars methods...so yea, it's one of those things that you have to really really research for, and then find the aha moment. Fortunately, she was brave enough to put her messaeg out there, and because of that, she was blessed.

For now, I am content in knowing that some kids, even if it's not my child, will begin their life anew, thanks to doctors who stick their necks out, their jobs on the line, just to save a child, or a suffering young woman. You should be praising this effort. To poo poo it, makes me wonder if people really understand neurology, immunology, toxicology and metabolics?

I am also content to know, there are such things as miracles in this world, We had a friend who's child had a death sentence from Ewings Sarcoma...weeks to live. Prayers from many, and with a little tweeking here or there...this child is cancer free. I do believe in miracles, I do, I do, I do...

Truthpuncher,
First of all, there are no names. It could be anyone, couldn't it? That's the very purpose of the VAERS database; it's anonymous. It could be someone else who had a severe reaction to a flu shot. We all know that it is possible.

But, for the sake of argument, let's assume it is her.

This is from the admitting physician at the ER she went to. This is not from the people who gave her the diagnosis at Johns Hopkins and Inova Fairfax. One doctor vs. several doctors.

My personal opinion? It may not have been Dystonia. Reactions like hers are difficult to pin down to one singular diagnosis. But saying it is psychogenic with absolute certainty is dishonest and unprofessional (it is unscientific to argue in absolutes). I think it may be a severe form of GBS, which is associated with flu shots and which is recoverable. The simple fact of the matter is that she was injured by the vaccine, and now she's better, and Dorkski has his panties in a wad because he knows he is wrong.

Now, when are you going to apologize to us for being such an ass and for being completely wrong? And where did you get your MD or PhD from again?

Craig, did you see how the doctor used his pre-programmed CDC "coincidence" talking points that went to the media before the vaccine was available to the public?

He might be just slightly more palatable if he weren't such a shitty writer

ok kathy so you are saying that 50 years ago we had the medical knowledge to heal brain injuries but since then this knowledge has never been able to make it to mainstream medicine?

Ok instead of he said she said arguments, how about you explain how a brain injury was healed after 3 days?

Posted by: joe | November 11, 2009 at 01:08 PM

How does a boxer wake up from a concussion?

Gatogorra -

"Thanks, JB.
I've been reading up on so-called "psychogenic" movement disorders and figured out why certain neurologists think they can diagnose Desiree from a distance:"

The neurologist who *originally* examined her *in person* also said it was psychogenic: http://www.examiner.com/x-13791-Baltimore-Disease-Prevention-Examiner~y2009m11d4-Records-show-case-of-dystonia-is-psychogenic-and-not-related-to-flu-vaccine

The doctors who think they can diagnose psychogenic illness by video inspection... were perfectly right.

I say again - will any of you be apologizing now that it's turned out you were completely wrong?

Incidentally - where *did* you get your MDs and PhDs, again?

My one and only run in with Orac was a few years ago. He prominently made fun of Dr. Deth's name. I remember thinking that when someone makes fun of an opponent's name, it's a sure sign they are short on real arguments.

Well, what do you know? Here's another vaccine injury to report.....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33845867/ns/health-cold_and_flu/

This was within hours of his vaccination. My bet? Dorkski and his Oraccolytes will say, "Correlation does not equal causation."

And the congregation will reply, "Amen!"
And the Pharma Angels will sing.

Joe,

Maybe it was mercury poisoning and not some "brain injury". Chelate out the mercury and she improves, not a real surprise there.

Dr David Goski must have taken lessons from Dr David Southall, who watched Steven Clark on TV news years ago, then rang the police saying that on the basis of watching the news interview alone, he, Dr David Southall could confidently testify that Steve had murdered his two children.

While his wife Sally was in prison convicted of double murder on the basis of equally dubious evidence from Professor Sir Roy Meadows! They must have a special school of obfuscation somewhere.

Southall still believes he was right.

Gorski is simply cut from the same cloth.

Why is anyone surprised? It happens all the time.

Correlation is only causation when it comes to anaphylaxis after antibiotics, or the blatantly blindly obvious. But start talking about early onset dementia after statins, the Vioxx debacle and a whole host of other health deteriorations related to drugs designed to replenish the piggy bank after legal disasters... (think Help Pay for Vioxx Vaccine ~ aka Gardasil) then they bring out the old hoary that:

correlation doesn't mean causation.

then of course, it does when it suits them. Like this one.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/11/health/11flu.html

the point of this story is to inflate the H1N1 deaths to make it look a bit worse than it really is. Of course, in the process they admit that they have to "look over" the statistics for a few months.

Massage them, more like it. But it illustrates a useful mindset.

Here we discover that CDC widen's the diagnosis of death by flu. The influenza virus itself, doesn't just kill patients. It has a much wider scope. We discover that the figures are being gerrymandered to include everything from a secondary bacterial infections to ALSO include "other" infections as well as organ failure (and goodness knows what else suits as well....).

Yet you can be absolutely certain that those very same doctors, when faced with a patient coming in after a vaccine with a secondary bacterial infection, other infection, bacterial infection... or even brain inflammation AFTER A VACCINE, will ALWAYS parrot out the old line...

Correlation doesn't relate to causation.

Did the medical profession fund the Democrat John Murtha? After all, what John Murtha does in the Senate reminds me of what Orac does on his blog:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywgUCdefSW8

Truthpuncher-

Right out of the whackosphere aren't you?

Your article is really an opinion piece originally from the Baltimore Disease Prevention Examiner - it say so right there with the guy's picture (get a load of him...)and here is his description --


Rene Najera has a degree in Medical Technology from the University of Texas and a Master of Public Health degree from the George Washington University. Along with tracking and investigating diseases in Maryland, he is an avid participant in pick-up soccer games in the Baltimore region.

What is your point here? Most of those 67 adverse vaccine cases diagnosed as dystonia more than likely had Thimerosal as the common denominator. Get a grip.

Dr Cathcart, knew in the fifties he could reverse injury by vaccine with high mega dose VIT C...but, it must be caught within days or a month of the injury. I am sure Dr Buttar employed this strategy. I don't think it's odd to think a boo boo like this, in a normal person who had the chance to develop a normal brain, can reverse the injury if caught early. I only wish I knew that back then...so that my kids wouldn't have to live a lifetime boo boo on their brain/immune system. I am sure she was also put in Hbot...which makes the tissue injury in the brain heal. If only the insurance companies would allow this as standard protocol after a vaccine injury! I am sure it that was pronounced, they could save at least fifty percent of diagnosed autism in our country. But alas, our world, cruel one at that, thinks this is genetic and our faults....even a drowning victim can come back with this strategy...and what makes anyone think, our kids are no less deservant?

Ok instead of he said she said arguments, how about you explain how a brain injury was healed after 3 days?

WOW...17 credits in one semester? I don't know how he did it. (Insert eye roll here)
In chiropractic college, I took 28-31 credits per trimester! (It's a 5 yr program crammed into 3 1/3 yrs.)

WHACKED! No other way to describe him.

It seems Orac fits this discription and could greatly benefit from professional help

Narcissistic personality disorder

Definition
Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance and a deep need for admiration. They believe that they're superior to others and have little regard for other people's feelings. But behind this mask of ultra-confidence lies a fragile self-esteem, vulnerable to the slightest criticism.

Narcissistic personality disorder is one of several types of personality disorders. Personality disorders are conditions in which people have traits that cause them to feel and behave in socially distressing ways, limiting their ability to function in relationships and in other areas of their life, such as work or school. In particular, narcissistic personality disorder is characterized by dramatic, emotional behavior, in the same category as histrionic, antisocial and borderline personality disorders. Narcissistic personality disorder treatment is centered around psychotherapy.

Symptoms
Narcissistic personality disorder symptoms may include:

Believing that you're better than others
Fantasizing about power, success and attractiveness
Exaggerating your achievements or talents
Expecting constant praise and admiration
Believing that you're special
Failing to recognize other people's emotions and feelings
Expecting others to go along with your ideas and plans
Taking advantage of others
Expressing disdain for those you feel are inferior
Being jealous of others
Believing that others are jealous of you
Trouble keeping healthy relationships
Setting unrealistic goals
Being easily hurt and rejected
Having a fragile self-esteem
Appearing as tough-minded or unemotional

NOT!

Please, SUMMMM BODEEE tell I didn't used to think "The Fonz" was DA BOMB!

No! No way I'd think ANYBODY was Da Bomb -- especially wearing THAT swimsuit!

Now, JB is "DA BOMB" (even without the leather and especially since he wouldn't be caught dead in that suit!)

Marvelous and revealing once again. Also went to U of M, argh! what a disgrace - a bafoon of the highest order.

Thanks, JB.
I've been reading up on so-called "psychogenic" movement disorders and figured out why certain neurologists think they can diagnose Desiree from a distance: the supposed criteria for "psychogenic dystonia" are mostly visually ascertained.
A lot of the documentation (or lack of it) for psychogenic movement disorders goes back to J.M. Charcot, a French neurologist, psychologist and hypnotist in the 1800's, considered to be the founder of neurology (he did first document ALS) or, more mockingly, as the "father of hysteria". Freud, a student of Charcot, went on to gain fame documenting female "hysterical" conditions which feminists and reform psychiatrists later called into account.
Charcot, when he worked for the railroad authority, was charged with weeding out the shammers among railroad workers who'd suffered accidents and many of his famous criterion for "hysterical" conditions were gathered during this experience. His job was a bit like that of an insurance investigator cutting down on claims. Charcot's theory for psychogenesis was that it was neither neurological nor psychological but... simply "inherited hysteria"-- similar to the modern psychopharmaceutical industry theory of genetic voodoo brain chemicals, in other words.
What isn't often documented during this period were the unknown effects of certain "medical" approaches to hysteria and epilepsy practiced in asylums. For one, the practice of giving multiple doses of mercury and other toxic chemical agents to induce vomiting as a "therapy" for conditions believed to be psychiatric. It's not impossible that some of the "new" and atypical manifestations of movement disorders at Charcot's time were iatrogenic and, like today, subjected to professional denial, cover-ups and alibis to protect the reputations of medical authorities.
Though there is no neurological evidence that headaches exist, neurologists are sure that the lack of neurological evidence in some cases of Parkinson's, tremor, dystonia and epilepsy categorizes such cases as hysteria. The criteria for psychogenic dystonia are such things as making noise while walking in a painful posture (because, as Charcot wrote, muscular contractsion in dystonia and Parkinson's are not painful), rapid onset after injury or medical procedure, certain postures during seizure, fatigue in a spasming limb if pressed against, filing a lawsuit against a doctor...
What was that? Yes-- filing a lawsuit is a symptom of psychogenic movement disorder. In an age when drug adverse events are becoming as common as dirt, mainstream practitioners are sure to be boning up on "studies" of psychogenic disorders all over again, particularly psychogenic movement disorders considering the appalling rates of Parkinsonism, tardive dyskinesia, tics and dystonia induced by psychiatric drugs and the rates of CP, Multiple Sclerosis, tics and seizures induced by vaccines in particular.
When the actual rates of injury, for instance, exceed the drug industry "studies'" predictions of rates of adverse events, some of the vast overflow becomes speculatively "psychogenic". Sometimes it's the speed with which the symptoms show up after a medical procedure or drug that raises doctors' "red flags": it's as if they're saying "Hey, we thought there was supposed to be a good six month to a year lag in development of symptoms after certain pharmaceutical exposures-- makes half the lawsuits drop off because the victims didn't know what hit them! Why are these patients trying to change the game by getting symptoms RIGHT AWAY???" As we know with vaccine injuries, timing of visible adverse events can range from minutes to months.
Our former ABA therapist developed seizures and IBD after a battery of travel shots at age 20. She estimated years later that she was probably exposed to huge amounts of mercury and aluminum in the space of a few days. Because toxic-injury seizures frequently develop in the frontal lobe and frontal lobe seizures are often difficult or impossible to detect on brain scans, the therapist was told by a neurologist that it was "all in her head". She used to laugh that it must be all in her head when she goes into a drop seizure in a restaurant (it was always after eating...).

It took me a good 10 minutes to find out that Gorski suffers from a condition known as Apergers Syndrome. Let's expound on my Gortistic/Egotistic hypothesis.

• Lack of managing appropriate social conduct - (He blogs all day and night. No face to face conversations. Always has to have the last word.)

• High intelligence - (He is very brash in making sure everyone knows where he studied and how many classes he took) Sometimes he surprises me with very scientific detailed comments that when I check for accuracy he is right on the money. Then comes the ridiculous comments and he loses all credibility.

• Lack of empathy - (This man has no empathy towards families or parents of children with autism.)

• Inflexible thinking - (He cannot think outside of the box or come to a compromising decision that Autism could be caused by vaccines or combination of vaccines and the environment.)

• Repetitive routines provides feelings of security - (Must always blog and try to disprove others with baseless self theory and mockery.)

• Specialized fields of interest - (He knows all episodes of the old and new Dr.Who series. You cannot shut this guy up once you get him started on Dr. who. It’s like a one sided conversation after another.)

I strongly advise all of you to diagnose him as well. Perhaps I might have left a few or more symptoms out of my online diagnosis. However, I have done the same thing that all career suicide doctors have done by just watching Desiree Jennings on TV and giving a diagnosis.

And I didn't have to take 17 Credit Hours for two semesters in a row to give a well in-depth online diagnosis.


Gorski the "Science"Blogger does not run a medical blog at all. Despite being a surgical oncologist, posts by him on autism and what he calls "anti-vaccination lunacy" far outnumber posts about surgery and cancer. He is just another ND with most likely some close personal connection to autism that he does not want to admit which is causing him to get so involved on cyberspace. What he says is certainly consistent with the fact that the controversy over mercury poisoning and autism is apparently much more of a concern to Neurodiversity proponents than human rights as they idealistically claim.

His blog is one of a number of hardcore ND websites that endorses the Hub, such as autistics.org, which equates the group Cure Autism Now, which has now merged into Autism Speaks, with attempting genocide.

He is a tool of Stephen Barrett, failed shrink and king of tools, and defended Silicone breast-implants prior to defending mercury, which implies his opinion would still be fixed from the start. However, what drives him to push his opinion about it over the blogosphere I feel stems from his Neurodiversity allegiance which in turn may derive from something personal.

The only reason why the big pharma-tied "Science"Blogs picked him and not Kathleen Seidel, Camille Clark, Kevin Leitch or Kristina Chew is because unlike the rest, they think it's impressive he has both an MD and a PhD, despite neither having anything to do with autism. Leave it to Adam Bly to pick people based on such superficial qualities.

Out of curiosity---the guy's posts are really, really long. Is there someone or somewhere that explains point by point why he's wrong?

Wake up J.B.!

surgeons are above mere mortal humans. Gorski does not need bedside manner as the bodies before him are just - objects - which are only present to exemplify his extraordinary talent and attempt to glorify his insatiable ego

and give him a break J.B.!

it is painfully obvious that he does not get the attention and respect he deserves from his peers in real life. so the pressure and disrespect must be diverted in blogland by denying, belittling and taking it out on others.

"People like him NEED a medical degree, need a blog of angry followers (many who have no connection to this epidemic, just like the hate involved), need to feel important because at the very core, they feel nothing for themselves - quite a scary life, I imagine."

Quite unlike the bloggers here.

They don't have medical degrees.

I'm trying to decide who the bigger scumbag doctor is-Dr. David Gorski or Dr. Paul Offit (with Snyderman coming in a close third.) Doctors like this give the profession a bad name.

Oh dear, kids: http://www.examiner.com/x-13791-Baltimore-Disease-Prevention-Examiner~y2009m11d4-Records-show-case-of-dystonia-is-psychogenic-and-not-related-to-flu-vaccine

It's all falling apart somewhat, isn't it? I wonder if you'd care to apologize to Gorski or Novella? Or if not, would you mind bashing your head against a wall until some sense gets into it?

Well Orac did it this time. He's made an even bigger fool of himself than usual and gave Generation Rescue and AoA some publicity! Hahaha. I guess he's not too smart to not have known that this would have backfired on him.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/vaccine-victim-desiree-jennings-viciously-attacked-by-medical-establishment.html

"How does his blogging style translate to Dr. Gorski’s bedside manner with patients? Let’s just hope he has multiple personalities."

I'm willing to bet that Dr. House has a much better bedside manner on one of his grumpier days, than Gorski displays in his blogs.

I did not seen any Autistic or ADHD kids on the beach in the "Jump the Shark" clip.

They all look so healthy.... and with only ten vaccines.

What Orac/Offit/etc think is that the general public is not capable of original thought. We should believe the "experts", we should belive "science". And you know what, people would have kept on "believing" had Pharma not gotten greedy and started hurting children where it happened right in front of a parents eyes. I am so bored of reading the "science has spoken" line. (Seriously, it is time their PR firms come up with a new slogan!) Everytime I hear "Science has spoken" I remind myself of this:

A 1998 study from the New England Journal of Medicine found that 96% of peer reviewed articles had financial ties to the drug they were studying. (Stelfox, 1998)

JB, I think I love you a little bit today for outing David. He is going to do one of two things - come after you full force or totally ignore you. I have faith in you JB - because you have truth and a legion of parents who "woke up from believing" on your side!

Itsnotthevaccines,

Awww, how cute! It's the "I know you are but what am I!" defense. Is that you, Dorkski?

Adrienne - great to hear that your U of Michigan docs apparently had a different perspective!

I read a few responses on the "left brain - no brain" blog where they were discussing our son Thomas after we were on the Dateline
show on Dr. Wakefield in late August.

Thomas was obviously perfectly healthy. As parents, they suggested we should have been considered child abusers because we subjecting our son to an unnecessary and intrusive procedure.

These people are firggin insane in my eyes.

Funny - reading the comments I thought you all were talking about JB, he of the bullying blog and diagnosis without degree.

Anyway, most of today's hit piece is recycled from one last year. Running out of material, JB?

To "jump the shark" requires that what you had before was of some value. I don't think that's the case with the little doctor.

People like Orac are transparent - nothing more. People like him NEED a medical degree, need a blog of angry followers (many who have no connection to this epidemic, just like the hate involved), need to feel important because at the very core, they feel nothing for themselves - quite a scary life, I imagine.

What is laughable, but actually makes me feel a twinge of sympathy for him as well, is his apparent falling-apart over Desiree Jennings' recovery. If he (and his followers) TRULY believed she was 'acting,' if they TRULY believed this vaccine injury could not have happened, wouldn't we have seen a much more satisfied response from the likes of them at its close? A simple "told ya so," maybe? Usually, the guy melting down is the one with the most to lose.

And for David Gorski ('cause I know you have nothing better to do than to read this), here's one to blow your top...two of six of the doctors that have treated my kids were also graduated from the University of Michigan - one is former faculty. These two PHYSICIANS are coincidentally the two who told me not to ever give my boys another vaccine and that their vaccine injuries are real and absolutely connected to their diagnoses. Apparently they learned something during their time in Ann Arbor that you missed.

Hail, Hail, to Michigan; the Leaders and Best.

"Since when do doctors make long-distance video-only diagnoses?"

Only one time comes to mind; Terry Schiavo.

What galls me about Dorkski and Novella is that they have the audacity to spread their misinformation concerning this without even looking at her case, her medical history, or even seeing her. They seem to think they know more about her condition than her and the doctors who diagnosed her. Their narcicism knows no bounds, it would seem.

Oh, I'm sure we'll hear the cries from the Oraccolytes, saying we're being "too mean" over here (I know...I still find that hilarious. Them calling AoA mean? Wow!). And I'm sure Dorkski will whine and whimper about how he's so mistreated. This coming from someone who was practically dancing with glee on the grave of one of his rivals.

I used to pity him. I think this is his way of getting back at all of the jocks that made fun of him in high school, saying "I smarter dan U!!"

Sad, really. I don't pity him anymore, though. He and his groupies are too pathetic. I do, however, pity anyone who takes medical advice from him and his sycophantic meatheads.

The desiree jennings case is important because she went public with her condition, had been examined by btrained physicians, and been cured by detox, so the before and after videos leave a trail thru peoples conditioning, to lead them out of the wilderness of medical brainwashing.

For that she is now under attack on her blog, on youtube and on Orac!
Ivde posted there quite a bit, and seen the irrational response masked as science and rationality.

JB writes: "Since when do doctors make long-distance video-only diagnoses?"


While I’ve heard of long distance evaluation of test results, the first time I ever became aware of long distance diagnosing was when Bill Frist diagnosed Terri Schiavo.

But there’s a topic more controversial maybe even than autism and vaccines, if you can imagine that, so I probably shouldn’t be on about that and anyway I’m betting the question was rhetorical.

Easy and profitable. Correct? Doesn't matter.

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