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    « Without Vaccine, Australia Shrugs Off Swine Flu. | Main | Craig's List Transaction Reveals Vast Transparency of CDC »

    October 27, 2009

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    Listed below are links to weblogs that reference On Media: Is LA Times' Thomas Maugh Offended By Vaccine Safety Advocacy?:

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    Elizabeth

    I laughed when I read his piece. I knew how hard he had to look for religious leaders that would say this.

    Johanna Bonnell

    I know I read that the Dept. of Homeland Defense, Janet Napolitano, met with religious leaders about the H1N1 pandemic and vaccination, I think in August. My only point is, it would be nice to trust what leaders say but they were already primed by the pharm companies and government.

    Autism Dad in PA

    I know this thread is a few days old, but i wanted to add a few words just in case people are still reading these posts.

    I am a conservative Christian father of a mildly autistic child. I have supported Dr. James Dobson in the past and i do like the positions he takes with many social issues today.

    One thing to keep in mind is that he comes from a pediatric background. He has the title "Dr" that precedes his name. Therefore, the chance is good that his mindset may mirror that of the general medical community. I'm not defending this, i'm just explaining what may be the case with him.

    I also want to add that he has had Lynn Hamilton, author of Facing Autism, on his program a few times and has even recommended her book; a book that discusses the biomed option. However...

    However, I too, wish he would have a few of his staffers do some research, so as to update the stuff he says on the air in relation to autism and vaccine issues.

    I think many of those who call themselves conservative Christian and know that is foolish to completely trust anyone wearing a suit or a collar, don't make the connect that it is equally foolish to completely trust anyone wearing a white lab coat.

    Not everyone who holds a Bible is teaching truth, nor is everyone working with petri dishes or bunsen burners bringing us safe and scientifically accurate medical treatments/cures.

    I've learned through the process of dealing with autism and learning of all the possible causes and treatments, to be careful who i trust with my child's health, and future development; and i'm still learning.

    Still, instead of labeling Dobson as a hypocrit, why not send an email or two to Focus on the Family. Maybe he might just be open minded enough to mention ARI and others on his next program that deals with autism and health issues.

    Elucidatus

    I can see it now bald headed Sinead Oconnor ripping Maugh's picture live on SNL while saying "Fight the real enemy."

    Sylvia

    No wonder the LA Times is going down the tubes! It can't be soon enough with bizzaros like Maugh steering the ship. Buh-Bye!

    John Stone

    Very often (and here) people bring up religion on our side as well, and also it comes into play in the US because one of the ways out are "religious exemptions". But while vaccination doesn't seem to be an entirely modern practice, it is unlikely that many religions have an historical line on it except in relation to products used, which may be proscribed on an ethical or dietary level. This may be more relevant with Catholicism or Islam than Judaism where medical benefit would outweigh dietary prohibition - though I am not sure this would remain the case if Khosher products were available.

    There seem to be two main intellectual arguments for vaccination - the proposition the benefits far outweigh the risks, and that it is some kind of civic obligation (for the greater good).

    The reality as we found is somewhat different. Something which might be of public benefit has become a universal racket. The testing of products is invariably pitifully inadequate and benefit risk ratio is in virtually all cases, at best conjectural, because the science has never been done. The fact that the science is not done means with near certainty that the risks are much higher than official medicine will ever have any knowledge of, and moreover, as we know all damage is instantly deniable.

    So, despite the intellectually flattering arguments there are no rules. It is a bit like someone signing a treaty on the basis that the other side will be stupid enough to stick to it, and that is where we all are with public health and the vaccine industry.

    The truth is that if they were ethically in earnest products would be tested to the same levels as other medicines are supposed to be (particularly given their universal use), the medical profession would actively and sympathetically moniter all adverse reactions and their sequelae, and they would listen with respect and concern to parents reporting adverse events. But, of course, not only do they not do any of these things - they aggressively dismiss everybody who dares speak up, and hide behind a fortress of legal obstructions to guard their positions.

    And then, of course, there is the Praetorian guard in the media, of which Thomas Maugh is a particularly egregious example - no discourtesy spared. The way he conducts himself surely does his and their cause no good whatsoever.

    michael framson

    In Oregon, as part of the Oregon Revised Statutes(ORS) for religious exemption from vaccination is the definition of religion:
    "any system of beliefs, practices or ethical values." As Robert Krakow pointed out, "vaccination is indeed a religion".... a dogmatic religion. An unethical religion, A corrupt religion, misguided religion, shortsighted religion, dangerous and unhealthy religion, a religion which corrupts medicine, doctors, governments, people, corporations (of course they maybe inherently corrupt.) Vaccinations maybe the ultimate religion, bigger than God, or the universe in the eyes of all those who want their religion obeyed even if it kills or injures you or your child.

    It seems, the only ones who most keenly understand "ethical values", or the lack of, are the parents at this site, who seek to protect their children, themselves from so much of our world that behaves so ugly, so unethically, when it comes to this religion.

    As we know all too well, we've seen every kind of ethical injustice when it comes to those who foist their vaccination religious beliefs on others.

    Our "beliefs, practices and ethical values" represent the only place that vaccinations have not perverted and destroyed.

    Thanks Anne!

    Autisticliving.com

    I'm gonna steal/alter a verse from Billy Joel....

    They say there's a heaven, when you vaccinate.
    Some say it's better but I say it ain't.
    I'd rather laugh with the sinners,
    than cry with the saints.

    The sinners are much more fun.

    You know that only the good die young.

    :-P

    God I'm glad I'm an atheist.

    Monica

    If I'm dead wrong about my child's vaccinations linked to his encephalopathy and autism, then why doesn't Mr. Maugh have an explanation for my child's 105.5 fever for 2 days following his MMR, then petit-mal seizures, the total loss of speech language, fine motor skills, etc. If there's no risk to vaccination, then why do parents have to sign consent and release of liability forms prior to them??? What's his problem?!?! His pharmaceutical stock portfolio still hurting from the last DOW drop? Dead Wrong? -- Why doesn't he just drop dead.

    Joanna

    I think when the vaccine industry has to stoop to calling you in a sinner if you don't get a vaccine reveals their desperation. Calling something your moral obligation means that they know the science can't stand on its own. Put vaccine safety up there w/ intelligent design (and insult to scientists and Christians) and call it a day...

    Benedetta

    Pat Robertson on the 700 club has said for years that the vaccines were causing the rise in autism.

    I remember one time he even quoted a Bible verse about the end of times that so many women were hanging onto one man's coat tails (indicating that men were scarce - many people think this verse means many men died in battle), But Pat Robertson said he thought it could just as easily mean that more boys than girls were being harmed by vaccines????!!!!!
    Yes, he said this years ago while I was crying and pleading to God. If ever you believe in a message of God coming through to help some one --- well there it was for me!

    Michael B Schachter MD, CNS

    Has Mr. Maugh been checked for brain damage? Is he up-to-date with all vaccines containing thimerosal and aluminum? Perhaps he is homozygous for the Apolipoprotein E4 gene resulting in an inability to detoxify toxic metals from his body with resulting brain damage. This might explain some of his absurd comments. Otherwise, has anyone checked into any connections he might have to pharmaceutical companies that are promoting vaccines?

    Bob

    Most of the large national religious groups that are comprised of a blend of denominations tend to be theologically liberal. That's because most of them are rooted in "social gospel" or "liberation theology" and are, therefore, predisposed in favor of big government (and global government) "solutions".

    As a Christian (and a conservative), I am offended when one of these purported "Christian leaders" deigns to tell Americans that getting a flu shot is a "moral" issue.
    They have ZERO scriptural basis for such an absurd proclamation.

    The problem is that people who are not Christians are probably turned off by such unscriptural "moralizing", and most faithful Christians ignore such pronouncements because those loudmouths are are not considered to be leaders by rank-and-file Christians. They are seen for what they are -- a bunch of nutball moralizing liberals.

    Having said that, those of us who are concerned about vaccines tend to run the gamut politically, from liberal to conservative (which I happen to be). What we have in common is that we are free thinkers who have been burned one-too-many times by a patronizing doctor or government that is "here to help."

    For instance, I disagree with RFK Jr. on probably EVERYTHING except vaccine safety. He is *the man* when it comes to that issue, however, and I respect him for taking a stand that is at odds with the current administration.

    Likewise, the Bush administration was no better. So it's not a "liberal" or "conservative" issue -- it's really a battle of common sense (us) versus "group-think" (them).

    Josh

    Maurine and the others who wrote in and got a response from this clown, just imagine what it's like working with the asshole. Ha!

    You guys who are getting these asinine replies from this "journalist / scientist" may want to forward them up to the editor who's above him. Not like that would do anything per se, but any editor worth his or her salt would be embarrassed by this guy's little love notes he's sending out to readers.

    Kathy Blanco

    Didn't the bible warn us of pharmacopia as sorcerers? Liars? Enough said...

    Maurine Meleck

    I, too, wrote to Maugh after reading the article. Here is what he wrote back to me(very mature-NOT)
    " I find such ignorance to be truly astounding. Somewhere a village is missing its idiot."
    I don't think I have ever received such a disgusting statement from someone of his stature(if you can call it that).
    The article really troubled me. My sister knows the rabbi in L.A.(a very well respected rabbi with a very large congregation) and she too was shocked by his comments and the whole piece. Thanks Anne for this post.
    Maurine

    kathleen

    What do they think of the people, like myself, who have prayed for guidance on this issue and been firmly lead away from the swine flu vaccine?
    Are they saying that my answer in prayer is not worthy? Though answered by God?

    DCannon

    Why all of us do not send an email to this guy..does someone has it? We just copy our comments here next to the letter written by the author of this article.

    John Stone

    What astonishes me most is the scientific illiteracy of Maugh's comment, followed by it's unreasoned rudeness:

    “My comment is that you are dead wrong. The idea that vaccines cause autism has been disproved any number of times, and I find such hysterical reactions to be highly offensive.”

    There are of course no studies that disprove that vaccines cause autism - at best the studies that he likes suggest that vacines might not cause autism. The crass style scarcely suggests that he understood what was involved in the first place. Perhaps he feels offended because he knows who is really out of his depth, not to mention hysterical.

    Terramuggus

    Is receiving a pig vaccine even Kosher?

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