Support AOA

  • We'll send you an A of A t-shirt to thank you for your donation (of any amount.) Leave your address and size (M-2XL) in the PayPal instructions. Thank you. Check in each Saturday for our "Commenter of the Week" T-shirt winner too.

The Editors

@AgeofAutism Tweets

    follow me on Twitter

    SPONSORS

    Visitors

    « From ALS to Autism: Failure Isn’t the Enemy, Denial Is. | Main | The Insurance Industry Doesn't Want It!" Gov. Jay Nixon on Insurance for Autism »

    July 09, 2009

    TrackBack

    TrackBack URL for this entry:
    http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d8357f3f2969e2011571e61274970b

    Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Thoughtful House Responds: Sunday Times Defies Press Complaints Decision on MMR Autism Stories :

    Comments

    Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

    mark hawkings

    Kim
    I don't think so

    Mike has 4 mins and 42 seconds left to achieves is 5 minutes for fame whilst a generation is lost.
    Go for it Mike


    Tennis Anyone? From Kim Stag

    Boys, have we had enough of this autism Wimbeldon yet? Back and forth, back and forth. Can we just declare DEUCE now?

    Garbo

    Actually, I don't think you're as famous or important as you seem to believe...

    mark hawkings


    "just for everyone's information ..."

    Mike
    don't overestimate your importance most people here won't know who you are.

    we have many new people joining us here every day, not sure why ,, perhaps its genetic.


    Mike Stanton

    "just for everyone's information ..."

    I think they knew that already :=)


    Jim Thompson

    This is a 21st century witch hunt. The articles in the London Times are an accusation, trial, and conviction of Dr. Wakefield. The London Times is making the news, not reporting it. There is nothing noble or gentlemanly about it. On the other hand, the comment about “Wakefield's ungentlemanly conduct” meets the criteria given in “On Bullshit” by Harry Frankfurt. It is so far removed from the truth that it cannot even be called a lie.

    John Stone

    Stanton has, of course, espoused an ideology which is scientific 'Flat Earth News'

    http://www.flatearthnews.net/

    The genetic theory of autism is now completely untenable

    http://www.ageofautism.com/2009/01/autism-not-genetic-says-expert-professor-simon-baron-cohen.html

    http://www.ageofautism.com/2009/03/we-need-to-learb-where-toxins-impact-gene-expressions-to-find-the-cause-of-autism.html

    In August 2004, Richard Mills, the senior scientific officer of the UK National Autistic Society (where Stanton is the bee's knees) declared to the The Times 'that though there is clearly no single cause of autism, “no one can seriously suggest now that heavy metals are not implicated in some way”'.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/features/article468711.ece

    It was his first and last public pronouncement of this kind. Five years later their heads are buried in the sand as we face the biggest adult disability care crisis the world has ever seen.

    Thanks Mike and thanks Richard!

    mark hawkings

    just for everyone's information

    Mike Stanton is a Autism Hub Blogger and is a councillor for the UK's National Autistic society.

    I am not sure if Mike still holds this opinion but it give some idea of his believes

    http://actionforautism.co.uk/2008/06/

    "Embracing Neurodiversity allows you to stop looking for a cure because there isn’t one. I agree with the Autism Society of America that,

    Most of the enlightened world knows that autism is at its root, genetic, and therefore by definition it is not something that can be considered “curable” or a “disease.”


    Mike Stanton

    "If I said you should do something, would I be giving you an order?

    Would the PCC advise this newspaper to take down Brian Deer's stories if the commission didn't question their accuracy?"

    Thank you, Jake for summarizing the whole issue so admirably. The answer to both your questions is "No." Recent press releases on the matter from Wakefield assume that the answer to both these questions is "Yes."

    There seem to be two two threads to this discussion. Some people are arguing that Wakefield is not saying "Yes" to your questions in his press releases and that I am twisting his words. Others agree that he is saying "Yes" and is right to do so.

    I do not think anyone is going to change their minds now based on what I have to say and so I will take this opportunity to bow out from this discussion

    John Stone

    We can all see what Stanton is trying to do but the question is, why does he lap up this childish monsense. How could it be, for instance, that Wakefield could fiddle the results under the noses of 12 other signatories? This is just one point, but basically it looks as if Stanton will just believe anything.

    Jake Crosby

    Mr. Stanton,

    If I said you should do something, would I be giving you an order?

    Would the PCC advise this newspaper to take down Brian Deer's stories if the commission didn't question their accuracy?

    John Stone

    Mike

    This is a deplorable piece of twisting. The press release briefly re-states Wakefield's case and quotes Stephen Abell of the PCC:

    “Given the ongoing nature of the dispute,” Stephen Abell of the PCC wrote, “the articles should be removed from the newspaper’s website until this matter has been concluded. This would not be an admission of any liability on the part of the newspaper.”

    There was no attempt by Wakefield to mislead whatsoever: indeed he indicates that he is disappointed that the PCC has not acted further.

    To say you appear to be splitting hairs is an understatement. I asked before, what is your interest?

    Mike Stanton

    Mark H wrote

    "Once that response was received the PCC agreed to await the outcome of the GMC hearing before proceeding"
    Agreed with whom, the times ?, Deer, Wakefiled??

    if you have inside knowlege of this please share??

    Dear Mark
    I have no inside knowledge. This is what happened. Following the Times response to Wakefield's complaint the PCC decided to await the outcome of the GMC hearing before conducting their inquiry. They requested that the Times remove the relevant reports from its website until then and the Times agreed.

    Wakefield issued a press release which said that the PCC had ordered the Times to remove the artices and he suggested that the PCC's action was proof that the articles were false. He is wrong on both counts. There was no order and no suggestion that the PCC ha come to a decision in favour of Wakefield. In fact they have come to no decision at all.

    The Times reinstated the articles because they felt that Wakefield had tried to spin the story to his advantage. They felt that their good faith had been abused.

    Now we have another press release from Wakefield declaring that the Times are defying the order from the PCC. No order exists. All orders from the PCC are published on their website. There is no order there pertaining to Wakefield and the Times. Wakefield is making it up.

    ObjectiveAutismDad

    Curt, I think you hit the nail on the head. Mike and Anthony are just like Deer himself. They all act like little children.

    If there is ANY basis for what Deer wrote he would have produced by now -- as any reasonable person would have.

    Mike, Anthony, Why do you think it is that Deer and the Times took so long to respond to the initial PCC inquiry? And why do you think they just didn't back up the articles with facts rather than taking stalling actions??? This is what a reasonable person would expect to happen -- regardless of whether they support Dr. Wakefield or not.

    John Stone

    Anthony

    As usual you are playing with words - the only real issue here is your attempt to distract from Brian Deer's failure to fend off Andrew Wakefield's criticisms. The PCC are supposed to resolve these matters swiftly and the signally failed. Deer's article was preposterous - after 11 years he was claiming that Wakefield had fiddled the results under the noses of 12 other authors without anyone noticing or remarking on it. The article had elementary errors in it and was based on documents which could not be reproduced, and which Deer should not have had. But all this is alright with Anthony Cox, yessirree! When it comes to Andrew Wakefield, anything goes.

    Anthony

    Yep, that's correct John. I am not employed by the MHRA as I noted then.

    I don't understand your issue with me. Do you really think my views on MMR where planted in my brain by pharmaceutical companies and the MHRA. Has it ever crossed your mind that I might have examined the evidence and come to the conclusions I have independently?

    For the record, no-one from the MHRA or industry has ever told me what to say.

    Thanks for reminding me of that excellent thread at the Spectator though.

    mark h

    Mike

    "Once that response was received the PCC agreed to await the outcome of the GMC hearing before proceeding"
    Agreed with whom, the times ?, Deer, Wakefiled??

    if you have inside knowlege of this please share??

    Garbo

    "The fact that my client has felt forced to take these steps is not intended, and should not be construed, in any way as a lack of regard by my client for the authority of the PCC."

    They felt FORCED to take these steps? They don't have a lack of regard for the authority of the PCC?! Gimme a break. Poor Wakefield is the subject of a years-long libelous campaign against him, and takes it and takes it and takes it. He has the unmitigated gall to update people with the ongoing facts surrounding the suspect articles, and this practically moves the Times and their attorney to tears? Boy, they can dish it out but they sure can't take it. With Baby Murdoch's quid pro quo Glaxo appointment after that last fiasco of an article, it's no wonder that they're squirming to defend the indefensible. I wonder from whence their change of heart on the removal of the articles really came. How high up? The powers that be really need for those articles to be true, don't they? Sold their souls to the company store, they have.

    curt linderman sr

    seems to ba a lot of bickering on here for no reason. Anyone that can't see what's going on here and the horribly apparent conflicts of interest at the times (with scumbag elitist Murdoch at the helm) is a complete idiot that is unable to determine fact from fiction. they're not worth the time to argue with them. They're just lemmings with their head up the asses of the lemmiings in front of them and our only hope is that they get to the end of the line at the cliff before they completely screw up this world!

    John Stone

    Mike

    First of all, I agree with Jake Crosby: it sounds like an order to me. Secondly you are are putting words in Andrew Wakefield's mouth. I see nothing in the original press release which contradicts the terms of Stephen Abell's decision.

    And, by the way, what's your interest?

    Verify your Comment

    Previewing your Comment

    This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

    Working...
    Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
    Your comment has been saved. Comments are moderated and will not appear until approved by the author. Post another comment

    The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

    As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

    Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

    Working...

    Post a comment

    Comments are moderated, and will not appear until the author has approved them.

    Meet Our Advertisers


    Google Site Search

    • Google Site Search
      Google

      WWW
      ageofautism.com