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Unvaccinated Children Madness

Crazy are you By J.B. Handley
 
If you want to make someone who defends our current bloated vaccine schedule and believes the science proves vaccines don't cause autism go bonkers, just mention unvaccinated kids.
 
How else to explain some of the altogether nutty things that have come out of the mouths of the vaccine schedule's designated defenders?
 
I'll start with the gold-standard for goofy-speak from Julie Gerberding, an answer so classic it should be entombed for posterity, triggered by a great question from our very own Dan Olmsted. 
 
Dan Olmsted: Has the government ever looked at the autism rate in an unvaccinated U.S. population, and if not, why not?

Julie Gerberding: In this country, we have very high levels of vaccination as you probably know, and I think this year we have record immunization levels among all of our children, so to (select an unvaccinated group) that on a population basis would be representative to look at incidence in that population compared to the other population would be something that could be done.

But as we're learning, just trying to look at autism in a community the size of Atlanta, it's very, very difficult to get an effective numerator and denominator to get a reliable diagnosis.

I think those kind of studies could be done and should be done. You'd have to adjust for the strong genetic component that also distinguishes, for example, people in Amish communities who may elect not to be immunized (and) also have genetic connectivity that would make them different from populations that are in other sectors of the United States. So drawing some conclusions from them would be very difficult.

I think with reference to the timing of all of this, good science does take time, and it's part of one of the messages I feel like I've learned from the feedback that we've gotten from parents groups this summer (in) struggling with developing a more robust and a faster research agenda, is let's speed this up. Let's look for the early studies that could give us at least some hypotheses to test and evaluate and get information flowing through the research pipeline as quickly as we can.

So we are committed to doing that, and as I mentioned, in terms of just measuring the frequency of autism in the population some pretty big steps have been taken. We're careful not to jump ahead of our data, but we think we will be able to provide more accurate information in the next year or so than we've been able to do up to this point. And I know that is our responsibility.

We've also benefited from some increased investments in these areas that have allowed us to do this, and so we thank Congress and we thank the administration for supporting those investments, not just at CDC but also at NIH and FDA.
*  *
 
I'm sure Julie Gerberding had a point with her answer, for the life of me I don't know what it was.
 
Not to be outdone, Dr. Paul Offit recently got into the act with his own perspective on studying unvaccinated children (at least he concedes the studies don't exist):
 
"No studies have compared the incidence of autism in vaccinated, unvaccinated, or alternatively vaccinated children (i.e., schedules that spread out vaccines, avoid combination vaccines, or include only select vaccines). These studies would be difficult to perform because of the likely differences among these 3 groups in health care seeking behavior and the ethics of experimentally studying children who have not received vaccines."
 
Health care seeking behavior? Ethics of studying kids who haven't gotten vaccines?
 
Let me get this straight: we have the most complex and raging health epidemic amongst our kids in modern times, and no plausible explanation for cause from the mainstream authorities. Meanwhile, we have tens of thousands of case reports of kids regressing into autism after vaccination, but it's just too complicated and unethical to study unvaccinated kids?
 
"Health care seeking behavior" is the notion that parents who do not vaccinate their children may be less inclined to seek an autism diagnosis if there is a problem with their child's development. Fair enough, that MAY be true. But, in a well-designed study that issue could be dealt with in a very straightforward way: you independently evaluate every single kid for neurological disorders. Would that be expensive? Yes. Would it be thorough? Yes. Would it mitigate any issues related to health seeking behavior? Yes.
 
It's also interesting to consider a study completed by the CDC and published in Pediatrics, Children Who Have Received No Vaccines: Who Are They and Where Do They Live? The study noted:

"Unvaccinated children tended to be white, to have a mother who was married and had a college degree, to live in a household with an annual income exceeding $75,000, and to have parents who expressed concerns regarding the safety of vaccines and indicated that medical doctors have little influence over vaccination decisions for their children."
And, it continues:

"Why do some parents avoid vaccinating their children? Our results indicate that parents of unvaccinated children are much more concerned about vaccine safety than are parents whose children receive 1 vaccine dose. In a survey of parent's beliefs and practices regarding vaccinations and autism, siblings in families in which there was an autistic child were 3 times more likely to be unvaccinated, compared with siblings in families in which there was a child with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder. In response to concerns about the perceived risk of autism resulting from vaccinations, parents might have avoided having their sons vaccinated at a higher rate than their daughters, as a result of knowing that they have risk factors for autism and knowing that the rate of autism is 4 times greater for boys than for girls."

What are the chances that white, upper middle-class families with an annual income in excess of $75,000 who are very concerned about vaccine safety don't pursue an autism diagnosis if their child is exhibiting the signs of autism? Probably close to nil, but science can still account for that.
 
Meanwhile, the only data that has ever considered unvaccinated children was done through a phone survey funded by Generation Rescue, the results are available here:
 
http://www.generationrescue.org/survey.html
 
Generation Rescue analyzed the data provided by SurveyUSA, and a copy of our analysis can be found here. The most notable results of our survey are with the boys, which is not surprising considering boys represent approximately 80% of total cases of NDs. Namely:
 
All vaccinated boys, compared to unvaccinated boys:
 
- Vaccinated boys were 155% more likely to have a neurological disorder (RR 2.55)
- Vaccinated boys were 224% more likely to have ADHD (RR 3.24)
- Vaccinated boys were 61% more likely to have autism (RR 1.61)
 
Older vaccinated boys, ages 11-17 (about half the boys surveyed), compared to older unvaccinated boys:
 
- Vaccinated boys were 158% more likely to have a neurological disorder (RR 2.58)
- Vaccinated boys were 317% more likely to have ADHD (RR 4.17)
- Vaccinated boys were 112% more likely to have autism (RR 2.12)
 
(Note: older children may be a more reliable indicator because many children are not diagnosed until they are 6-8 years old, and we captured data beginning at age 4.)
 
One final point: the mainstream will never do a study of unvaccinated kids. They already fear what it will show, and the results for them would likely be cataclysmic. Their best bet is to invent reasons the study can't be done. It will be our community that will have to fund this study. It won't be cheap (my guess is $4-6 million). And, it will have to be constructed in such a way and managed by scientists in such a way that it has widespread credibility. When and how do we get from here to there?

J.B. Handley is co-founder of www.generationrescue.org and a contributor to Age of Autism.

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If you believe that no one would study rates of autism or other disorders in unvaccinated children.

Why not raise funds to carry out an independant study

I know I'm a little late for this, but in case anyone's still following:

http://birdflu666.wordpress.com/about/

Autism may be accidental, but some statements lead us to believe that deaths and sterility from vaccinations are not. The fact that vaccines can be deadly was NOT an accident.

Maybe this is crazy. Maybe anyone who believes it is crazy. Then again, if the intentions are benevolent, WHY IN HEAVEN'S NAME have they not figured out how to fix vaccines in TWO HUNDRED YEARS? My eyes do a gigantic automatic roll when I hear vaccines lauded as "one of the greatest medical advances of the 20th century." They're not great; the "medical" is seriously in question; and they are absolutely not 20th century. They are 18th century. Making that claim is showing appalling ignorance.

I'd also recommend Vaccinations: A Thoughtful Parent's Guide.

But all we can hope for is to keep our rights and to expand them somewhat. Don't expect there to ever be an acknowledgement that vaccines can be detrimental. That WILL NOT happen. And, sadly, most people don't care about the possible effects of vaccines until they have a loved one who is vaccine injured.

The endpoints studied in the definitive prospective vaccinated versus unvaccinated study should probably include fMRI (functional MRI) assessment of brain, heart, and gut (splancnic) function.

The ideal biomarker may not yet have been identified. No effort should be spared to identify an ideal biomarker for identifying, specifying, and quantifying both clinical and subclinical vaccine-induced injury in humans.

See the comments re: fMRI of Eileen Nicole Simon in this AoA thread:

http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/07/new-study-shows-vaccines-cause-brain-changes-found-in-autism.html

We have to do the research ourselves! We should set up our own analytical labs and begin our own analyses of each marketed inoculation. We should conduct our own pre-clinical and clinical studies of each marketed vaccine. FDA, CDC, and WHO, have abandoned us quite some time ago. They cannot be trusted.

We will have to design, conduct, analyze, and fund, the definitive prospective study of vaccinated versus unvaccinated humans. No one else can be trusted to do the definitive study. A several million dollar price tag is not beyond our grasp.

In the meantime, we should begin doing more pilot studies in rats and in non-human primates. For example, why not prospectively do a double blinded, placebo controlled study with 6 arms. Subjects would be randomized to a (a) placebo, (b) the pediatric and adult vaccine schedules adjusted by body weight, ( c) thimerosal-only arm, adjusted by body weight, (d) aluminum-only arm, adjusted by body weight, (e) thimerosal plus aluminum arm, adjusted by body weight, and (f) naturopathic-only arm. The endpoints studied could include mortality, neurodevelopmental milestones, cerebral perfusion and viability imaging, DNA hypomethylation, inflammatory cytokines, neuroimmune peptides, immunohistopathology, etc.

The best way would be to draft a request for contributions to fund a study of unvaccinated Children signed by five the highest profile advocates you know of. Then address it to President Obama and copy it to the Forbes 400 richest Americans.
http://www.forbes.com/wealth/forbes-400

Publish the letter on various autism web sites as an open letter to President Obama.

innumeracy. google it.

We will have to wait for hell to freeze over while global warming drowns us before the medical establishment and the pharmaceutical industry will agree to a comparative study on autism and the unvaccinated population.

That is because there is no autism in unvaccinated populations. In Britain we have three millions unvaccinated and as far as anyone can tell none of them is autistic. The medics know that only the poor idiot world at large doesn't know it!

You could run a study in the UK at far less cost than in the highly vaccinated US. I would be happy to join in an appeal to raise funds for such a project. I have helped raise over $65 miilions for other causes in the last twenty years.

Tony Bateson
www.tonybateson.com
Oxford, UK

Um, why isn't this done if $4 to $6 million is the only stumbling block?

Jim Carrey could use his salary from about 2 days of his next movie.

Oprah probably makes $6 million in the time it takes her to take a poop in the morning.

There are a lot of very wealthy people with kids who have ASD or who are connected to the call.

I gave money to the Ron Paul money bomb. $5 million in one day from a candidate who got about 1% of the primary vote. This post has been around since Feb and is still just an idea or progress has been made?

To me, NOT DOING THIS ASAP, make it look like WE are the ones afraid of the results.

Has anyone thought of asking Jim Carrey for the cash?

Jim per movie ...

Bruce Almighty (2003) $25,000,000

How the Grinch Stole Christmas (2000) $20,000,000 + merchandising

Me, Myself & Irene (2000) $20,000,000

Man on the Moon (1999) $20,000,000

The Truman Show (1998) $12,000,000

Liar Liar (1997) $20,000,000

The Cable Guy (1996) $20,000,000

My kids are all suffering through Whooping cough. They are not vaccinated. This has caused me to do a lot of rresearch because of the greif I have been given. Boy am I thankful for this experience! I think most people just do what ever their Dr tells them to do and they have full trust in them. I am thankful that I did my own research. Origanly I did just do what my Dr and Midwife told me to do which was not to vaccinate. So when I started getting swormed with questions and e-mails about why I should be vaccinating I did my research and found out that I am SO thankful I trusted in the right people. My kids are find and had the immune systems they need to fight off this sickness. O my gosh my kids are all fine and even better they are now naturaly vaccinated! Amazing what you learn if you just do a little research on your own.

THE ELUSIVE-OBVIOUS VACCINE FRAUD...

Attention US ATTORNEY KARIN J. IMMERGUT, US Attorney for the District of Oregon (via karin.immergut@usdoj.gov;bob.nesler@usdoj.gov;neil.evans@usdoj.gov):

Please immediately END the elusive-obvious vaccine fraud.

Vaccinations are NOT immunizations. Vaccinations are ATTEMPTED
immunizations. Many children are not immunized by their vaccinations - yet
MDs behave as if their vaccinations are 100% effective - telling parents seeking vaccine exemptions that only THEIR children will be
sent home during disease outbreaks - only THEY will have to bear the
financial burden of staying home from work and/or hiring tutors during
disease outbreaks.

THE ELUSIVE-OBVIOUS: Many children are not immunized by their vaccinations - so ALL children need to be sent home during disease outbreaks...

It's organized medicine's elusive-obvious VACCINATION PROMOTION FRAUD...

CDC's maximum vaccination cheerleader Deborah Wexler, MD offers the fraud this way:

"What if you don't [vaccinate] your child?...During disease outbreaks,
[unvaccinated] children may be excluded from school or child care until the
outbreak is over...for their own protection...This causes hardship for the
child and parent."
--Wexler's Immunization Action Coalition/IAC
http://www.immunize.org/catg.d/p4017.htm

Again that ELUSIVE OBVIOUS: Many children are not immunized by their vaccinations so ALL children need to be sent home during disease outbreaks - "for their own protection" to quote Dr. Wexler. More on this below.

Here is the fraudulent vaccination promotion as stated by the largest
pediatric trade union:

"Parents should be advised of state laws...which may require that
[unvaccinated] children stay home from school during outbreaks."
--American Academy of Pediatrics/AAP^^^

^^^From Informing patients and parents. In: Pickering LK, ed. 2000 Red Book:
Report of the Committee on Infectious Diseases, 25th ed. Elk Grove Villiage,
IL: American Academy of Pediatrics 2000:4. Quoted in Frederickson et al.
Pediatric Annals. (Jul)2001;30:401

America's pediatricians ask parents to SIGN the obvious fraud:

"If my child does not receive the vaccine(s)...consequences may
include...the need for my child to stay out of daycare or school during
disease outbreaks."
--American Academy of Pediatrics 2002
http://www.cispimmunize.org/pr o/pdf/RefusaltoVaccinate2.doc

THE OBVIOUS SOLUTION

Since many children are not immunized by their
vaccinations, ALL parents should be told that ALL children will be sent home
during disease outbreaks.

**MORE** ELUSIVE-OBVIOUS VACCINE FRAUD

(More fraudulent vaccination promotion.)

Failure to obtain informed consent is a crime. (see THOR quoted below.)

MDs openly ADMIT they aren't obtaining informed consent...

Mark D. Fox, MD, PhD. wrote of "the consent charade" in Pediatric Annals. (Jul)2001;30:422-23:

"The thrust of the immunization spiel (as I learned it) is to elicit
*assent* from parents...[L]iterature provided does not disclose risks or
alternatives in sufficient depth to qualify as 'informed' consent.
Moreover, these machinations mimicking [obtaining informed] consent are
employed despite the fact that [vaccinations] are virtually mandatory.
Informed consent...requires not only sufficient information, but also the
presence of legitimate choice...[O]ne could argue we should dispense with
the consent charade..."
--Mark D. Fox, MD, PhD. Pediatric Annals. (Jul)2001;30:422-23

The California Supreme Court wrote in the 1993 case of Daniel
Thor v. The Superior Court of Solano County 93 C.D.O.S. 5658:

"The common law has long recognized this principle: A physician who
performs any medical procedure without the patient's consent commits a
battery irrespective of the skill or care used." [Thor at 5659]

NOTE: Vaccination without consent is a crime even if good vaccinations are used.

MDs and CDC are mostly ANTI-immunization.

MDs and CDC are failing to inform America and the world that breastfeeding
mothers scan their environments for
pathogens and manufacture SPECIFIC IMMUNIZATIONS which automatically appear
in breastmilk.

Breastfeeding mothers immunize their babies DAILY with
specific immunizations.

MDs are mysteriously failing to tell the world that
breastfeeding women are IMMUNIZERS who scan for pathogens and manufacture
specific
IMMUNIZATIONS which they "inject" with their breasts DAILY.

What pregnant woman - explicitly informed that she can IMMUNIZE her baby
daily and (reportedly) make
MD-needle-vaccinations work better - is going to fail to at least ATTEMPT to
breastfeed?

MDs and CDC are missing a golden opportunity to make both the
immunization rate (breastfeeding rate) and vaccination rate skyrocket...

The MD/CDC mass immunologic child abuse crime is massive.

CHIROPRACTIC SILENT

It appears that the chiropractic profession was hijacked to help cover-up medicine's vaccination crime.

See Medicine's Vaccination Subluxation
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2222

(Above text is excerpted, slightly edited, from: QUI TAM: Vaccine fraud: Comedian Jim Carrey missed an elusive-obvious
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/3335

ROBERT KENNEDY JR. ON VACCINATION/FORCED THIMEROSAL: "WORST CRIME SINCE THE COVER-UP OF THE IRAQ WAR"

...“thimerosal generation is the sickest generation in the history of this country. He called it the “worst crime since the cover-up of the Iraq war.”
http://www.vaclib.org/news/2008/green.htm

Copied to Robert Kennedy, Jr. via http://www.robertfkennedyjr.com/# (Click on "Contact")

US ATTORNEY IMMERGUT: The crime is mass immunologic child abuse. Please end it immediately.

Thanks.

Sincerely,

Todd

Dr. Gastaldo
Hillsboro, Oregon
USA
todd@chiromotion.com

I too agree we need this study done yesterday. Well we all must advocate for our children because we have their best interest at heart. I too can relate to what someone else posted about the child dying from the flu. On the news 2 times diff. cases neither time was it then or now revealed if they were vaccinated. I am sure they were not because BIG MONEY PHARMA would be all over that. Amazing that important bit of info was left out. What a shocker. The more us parents spread the word about vaccine safety the better our children will be because we care.

Supriya, I found your post interesting. I applaud your courage too. I can tell you that my 5 year died from an MMR Vaccine.

Here in Dallas there was a story in the Dallas Morning News about a new vaccination that our state governor was trying to require all teenage girls to have. It was also interesting that the day this proposed law hit the floor it also came to light that the wife of the governor was on the payroll of the manufacturer of the vaccine. The support for the law was quickly removed and no such law was put into place.

I wrote to the Dallas Morning News regarding this issue, told them my story, they didn't want anything to do with it. The same response I have had from all the other streams of media I tried to contact.

My heart goes out to any and all that have been affected by any vaccine. Don't think that the MMR vaccine is the only one and it only affects out children. Go to www.vaers.com and find out what I learned the hard way. All vaccines can kill, injure and change your life and the lives of our families for ever and ever. It is a crime to know that millions are spent every year to cover up the information every parent, every person should be advised about before making a decision. I thought I was doing what was best for my healthy child and now she is dead. The fallout from this event in our life has been nothing short of devastating. I can only imagine what it must be like for parents who have autistic children.

Shoot, they can start with vaxed vs. unvaxed right in our own homes! Here's my anecdotal comparisson:

Ds age 4 (vaxed): autism multiple food intolerances, IBS, mysterious rashes. The odd thing is he never has acute infections.

Dd age 1: 1 cold, 1 flu.

Don't fear measles, babies should have weekly doses of mercury free Cod Liver Oil, and mother who is breastfeeding. Add selenium to diet mother if breastfeeding by eating 10 Brazil nuts a day. Breastfeed as long as possible. Also, if particularly febrile with fever, smoothie strawberries, they are natural anti fever mother nature medicine. Take in monolaurin, or coconut, they are natural antiviral, and or Olive Leaf Extract, Juice celeries, they are also natural anti inflammatories. (this is my entry)

Natural Cure for Measles

The patient should be kept in a well-ventilated room with subdued light.
Orange and lemon juice should be given frequently.
Administer warm water enema regularly.
Abdominal mudpacks have to be applied twice a day. You can also use castor oil packs with wool and warm compress.
Extracts of mango leaves in lukewarm water bath eases itching. The patient should adopt an all fruit-diet till condition improves.
Turmeric is very beneficial in the treatment of measles. Turmeric powder mixed with juice of bitter gourd leaves and honey should be given to the patient.
Seeds of eggplants help develop immunity against measles for a year. Intake of half gram to 1 gram of these seeds daily for 3 days is beneficial.
Barley water soothes cough in measles. It should be taken frequently with oil of sweet almonds.
Powdered liquorices help relieve cough in measles. It should be given along with honey.

Found this in a journal, from a grandmother...they knew how to treat diseases...now we reach for vaccines, tylenol, NSAIDS, and the like, and are causing autism in our children. Great trade off , not!

Hope this helps anyone who is total anti vaccine and scared of "the deadly scourge"...also, VIT D...sunshine, cleanliness, hygeine, etc. Do not fear what you can conquer, and often come out the better for it.

Additional suggestions for childhood infections.

Avoid Day Care if you can
Avoid recent vaccinated children who shed polio viruses and the like
Avoid people who have just used flu mist or other nasal vaccines
Avoid exposing children to relatives going through chemo (mutates genes)
Avoid MSG/GMO foods
Avoid Gluten/Casein/Soy and Corn
Avoid Molds
Address Thyroid function if bad (mother and child)
Avoid all forms of cleaning products that are highly toxic which lower cell mediated immunity
Avoid Fluoride products, and waters


ObjectiveAutismDad, of course orac is not objective, but neither are we...no such thing as a view from nowhere( all i still remember for sure out of my qualitative research coursework...). the proposed study will draw fire from pharma no matter what, so let them critisize it while it is being designed. this way we can take into account reasonable suggestions ( if they come up with such), and if they decline to participate ( the most likely outcome i am afraid) that would be a trump for us again.
let open-midned researchers formulate proper q's, so that we really measure what we want to know, but let the vaccinators approve of the design if they dare...

There is no way to design a study that will satisfy the mainstream medical community. They will not accept any study implicating their sacred vaccines regardless of the caliber of science behind it.
Forget that idea-it is a pipe dream in my opinion.
It is the thinkers in our society that will finally have the ammo they need to speak up if a decent study is done as it will surely implicate vaccines as the vehicles of chronic disease of many kinds-including autism, that they are. Lets go for quality scientists and let the chips fall where they may. You don't need thousands of participants either. I'll take J.B.s word on the cost. 6 mill is a lot of money to cash strapped parents fighting to regain their children s health but in Hollywood I bet Jenny and Jim could rustle up some serious cash and along with 50 bucks from 20,000 regular joes it can be done I bet.
I'll pledge 100.00 to this worthy undertaking right now.

Am I missing something or shouldn't all the inter-agency autism groups all pool their money together? I'm not saying this is the case, but this is no time to be territorial, let's just pool the funds (if they all agree, including ARI) and get this done! You guys are all smart enough to give great input as to the type of study and variables to control for.

The government will not do an honest vac/unvac study for many reasons.

One reason is money.

Please keep in mind these figures are ONLY issue lobbying - FOR JUST 2008 - and do not include additional millions in direct contributions to individual politicians and contributions to both political parties.

2008 Lobbying by Industry

1. Pharmaceuticals/Health Products $231,358,204

9. Hospitals/Nursing Homes $97,116,582

14. Health Professionals $83,092,266

18. Health Services/HMOs $62,814,992

http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?showYear=2008&indexType=i

I agree dreamer. My suggestion is that the first step should be to fund the design of a study. The design itself should be collaborative and vetted widely, and if it meets with acceptance, then go after fund raising for the study itself. No offense to GR, but since they already did the phone survey, it would help build credibility if someone else, perhaps AS, managed the next study.

Dreamer, you are dreaming... "...involve people like orac and his ilk..." These people are not objective. I would however, agree that reasonably objective people that are in the other camp should be sought out and involved.

It's particularly hard to get a researcher that has the proper equipments, statisticians, getting IRB approval for a study, with a university breathing down their necks that "we don't want those kind of studies" in our university. Much of those same universities have grants from major corporations, especially if the university is in health care. The only way this can be done is by professionals who are already parents of autistic children, who stand to not lose jobs or the like for studying ON THEIR OWN TIME, the results of this study. If we can do that, then we can have a study which has no one fudging the numbers. They can also submit the study to major journals etc. Of course we all know the result of that one, because the journals themselves are also conflicted. So, the results should be probably published publicly, in a major newspaper/magazine blitz.

I think this study should look at all the confounding factors that we feel causes autism, eliminting on a microsurgeon level those kids who may have parents with autoimmunity, infections, toxic soups, etc. Some would say, good luck with that, but I am sure the NT kids have less of it, than our population, very sure in fact. And of course, taking kids from known toxic areas not clean states so to speak. And of course all those quetions on the birth process, etc. This all matters in the grand scheme of things. I don't want this study to bite us in the butt, where it shows equal autism on both sides, that way, they can't ding us for just being "anti vaccine", but more "anti our world and its products and recommendations". I have always wondered on a simple level, why researchers haven't said, gee, let's look at all the things that changed around the forties, to see what we have done differently for children? The obvious will come...birth control, STD's, pollution, vaccines, non breastfeeding, new vector diseases, our food supply, the way we grow foods, the way we live in our homes, the way we clean our homes, the way we birth our babies, etc etc etc. These are the questions that make the lasagna of autism.

just dreaming obviously, but wouldn't it be awesome to involve people like orac and his ilk in study design(mind you, not hand it over to them to corrupt, but allow them to criticize the design while we can still make adjustments)? let them have their input before the results are in! let them critique the methods and suggest improvements until the design is to everybody's satisfaction!

you know, they used to tell us that having one child with autism meant an increased chance of having another... increased over the general population number...

SO... now that there are a LOT of us who do NOT vax our younger kids, I would like to see these numbers crunched again. It would very telling if the results are not what they used to be.

I spoke at a local La Leche League meeting today about vaccines. At the end of the meeting they announced they would make a donation to the charity of my choice. Logically, since I used the website as a reference throughout my talk, and we discussed the need for a vac vs. unvacc study, i asked them to make the check out to Generation Rescue! How cool is that? We can do this!

Sue, thank you for writing such thoughtful comments. I hope those who have the power to get this study off the ground take some time to really consider them.

Why hasn't a large scale survey been done of families with autism (not interviews with "124" participants (Woo 2004))- how many attribute their child's autism to vaccines and why - with definitive symptoms, hours/days between vaccine and regression or perceived cease in development, description of the child, photographic or video comparisons, parent knowledge of vaccine controversy before their child's vaccine v. "revelation" and autism-related diagnosis, etc. What other conditions are parents facing with their children, both the anti-vaccine and pro-vaccine parents. Maybe a survey could reveal some other areas of research and at least add to research in those areas (I am thinking GI, seizures, etc. ) For goodness sake, in 2008 an effective survey was done on Electronic Media showing "The common presence of observational learning (videomodeling) and deferred imitation supports further investigation of media as a teaching tool for children with ASD. Well duh, other studies reported more exacting educational results using computers and video to teach but now we know "they like it." So now we have a reason to use it? Parents have telling everyone about that for a long time. Okay, so give the public a reason to research vaccines further and not continue to wonder WHY DO THESE PARENTS WITH AUTISM KEEP PUSHING THIS ANTI-VACCINE AGENDA? And publish larger studies. How about a survey whose results can be promoted by the media, how about the result of a survey of parents and experience. Surveys are credible research vehicles to add to the body of information....we just don't have any good ones yet. WHY NOT? The results might be powerful and persuasive if not a bit late. They would give expression to real numbers, real criteria experienced by real families, not information about unknowns such as genetic causes or how mercury definitively affects those with already compromised immune systems whose nature we don't understand anyway.
Woo, E., Ball, R., Bostrom, A., Shadomy, S., Ball, L., Evans, G., et al. (2004, June). Vaccine Risk Perception Among Reporters of Autism After Vaccination: Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System 1990--2001. American Journal of Public Health, 94(6), 990-995. Retrieved February 19, 2009, from Academic Search Premier database.

Another suggestion is that funds for the study might be raised the way Obama did it: post the announcement from our organizations asking for $25. Or $10. Wait a bit and ask again. And again, and again-- the equivalent of two large lattes and a croissant every two weeks. We could manage this and I think many families could. For those who are scraping by, it spreads it out between paychecks.

JB, I think it might be pertinent to ask the other bio-med friendly autism organizations if they would be willing to chip in for the fund raising effort.

Also, might Autism Speaks be willing to donate the many monies they generate from their walks and other fund raisers? Just a mechanism for redemption if they truly want it.

AA, my thoughts exactly. This money could be raised very easily Ron Paul style. Pick a meaningful date for a money bomb several months out, give it time to get the word - spread it out like wildfire by email, have a catchy name, get Jenny McCarthy to promote it 'If they won't do the studies, we will' - set up a webpage with a fund raising ticker (it's addictive and people will often donate more than once on the day as the excitement builds). And if you really wanted to do it well - someone could try to contact Trevor Lyman who was responsible for the Ron Paul money bomb - being a Libertarian, he might be interested.

At the very least, it may generate some media attention as it did for Ron Paul. This could be an international fundraiser. Anybody who followed the Ron Paul campaign will understand how successful this fundraiser could be.

I have an unvaccinated child and am in touch with parents that have unvaccinated children. It is very baffling to everyone who has an unvaccinated child that the mainstram media claims vaccines prevent illness and have saved x number of lives per year as our children are almost never ill and bounce back very easily from all minor illness. They are also very much ahead of their peers in terms of all development milestones and invite comments from both strangers and friends on their healthy appearance.
The mainstream media portrays them as being little bio terrorists- tiny bombs with the potentialto go off any second and infect the "good" (poisoned?) children.
When any of us make the argument that they are so healthy, the answer we get is that they are "lucky" but their "luck" is about to run out.I have seen this argument play out on all the boards and all after all the articles which try to highlight the issue.
The major problem with the vax/unvax study is that even if it gets done and we can find some unbiased reputed individuals to conduct and oversee it, the chances of the story being killed by the mainstream media are very high.
Just reading the character assisination that is commited on anyone daring to question the issue in the mainstream media would discourage most people from wanting to touch the issue except those that have a personal or emotional stake which would then be dissected as a conflict of interest.
I feel so sad for all the innumerable damaged children- the ones who are now the alphabet children ( more fodder for pharma in terms of anti-psych drugs) and the other beautiful babies struggling with the poisons infecting thier system.
The tragedy that a generation ( or more) of children will never attain their full potential, will struggle with tasks and examinations the generation before them found no difficulty with, the actual dumbing down of society to make a huge profit .... I really dont have words for the kind of people that actively make and allow it to happen. There is a special place in hell for all of them.

JB, If you figure out who will manage this study, and start raising the money to do it... I will be donating to it, and asking all my friends to do the same. I bet thousands of parents out there feel the same.

A few thoughts...

First, psychological testing for autism and IQ testing (with a specific look at the difference in verbal vs nonverbal scores), plus health exams in any such study would need to be done in a blinded fashion--so the testers did not know which child was in which group. Also I think there would need to be fairly detailed developmental assessments made--not just autistic vs nt, but ratings of some sort on a long list of behavior/developmental skills. I wonder if it would be possible to get interested psychologists and doctors to donate their time and expertise for blinded evaluations?

Also, written valid vaccine/health records would have to be obtained for each participant--you couldn't just rely on parental reports of what vaccines they think their child received. (I discovered my child got multiple flu vaccines that I do not recall ever okaying; these were all given at the same time as other vaccines, per the doctor's records. Had I been asked prior to seeing the records, I would have replied that my child had only 2 flu shots, not the 6 she actually got.) Plus, the brand of vaccines involved might be a very important variable.

Selection of the actual kids to study would be tricky because you would ideally want a very large random sample from each population--so asking parents to just volunteer their vaccinated or non-vaccinated kids for the study would not be the best way to find scientifically valid comparison groups.

Kathy Blanco outlined a whole variety of factors that could influence results, and that would be the biggest danger of leaving this study up to biased researchers. Choose selected groups of kids for either the vaccinated or non-vaccinated group and you won't end up with a true result--which is what we really want--the truth.

The way around this is to (somehow) randomly select the kids to participate, then gather data on as many as possible of the variables that could potentially affect results (like number of mother's amalgams, prenatal vaccines, age at each vaccination, brand of vaccine, health at time of immunization, use of tylenol prior to/post shots or not, distance from home to coal-fired power plant, etc.) and have these data for each test subject so that they can be included in the analyses.

Multivariate statistics are designed to look at multiple variables and potentially inter-related or synergistic effects. You would need folks who are very good at complex statistics and a lot of computer time and power to run the statistical analyses required to see what the data show when various factors are included or excluded from the whole analysis. Such an approach might be able to parse out whether a combination of factors increases the risk of autism and/or other issues.

I think it might be possible to get donations for such a study not only from parents of autistic kids, but also from chiropractic organizations, naturopathic organizations, and vitamin/herbal supplement manufacturers, as well as health food stores and manufacturers. Politicians who say they support the cause could also be asked to contribute. Doctors and nurses interested in the truth would likely be willing to contribute too. Plus there are movie stars and business leaders who might be willing to chip in.

The problem, even with funds and study design in hand, might be finding a suitable unbiased team of university researchers to actually do the study. No doubt universities are looking for funds for research, but I wonder how many would turn a single several million dollar grant down if they thought taking it might anger their multimillion dollar longterm Pharma donors? And researchers might be wary of getting involved given the treatment Wakefield has received for even offering an hypothesis regarding vaccines. Burbacher, Landrigren, Grandjean, and Herbert are names that come to mind in trying to think of who might be worth getting involved. The govt puts out grant requests when they have funds--perhaps the same could be done if a pot of money were raised--that would put some of the job of developing a study design on potential researchers.

That is the beauty of raising funds through GR or another organization instead of depending on govt, though. Then concerned parents have the reins on which university/research team gets the funds and the chance to do the work. No chance then of it going to Univ. of Rochester or Univ of Pittsburg. Better also to make sure there is a team of researchers in charge of the study--not just one or two who could possibly be bought off somehow. Also all the data collected should be made available to all interested researchers (possibly even as it is collected) for analyses--sans identifying info on the participants of course--that would prevent a repeat of the Verstraten scenario of lost data, and potentially corrupted investigators.

If all those ND'ers and science geeks who think concerns about vaccines are totally unwarranted are truly convinced that vaccines are completely safe, then they also ought to be willing to contribute to a fair study and put their money and expertise where their mouths are. They could prove that they are serious and truly supportive of REAL science, by not only contributing funds, but also by contributing criticisms of preliminary study designs and data collection methods so that the end result is as high quality a study design as possible, and one that both sides agree will help reveal the truth--whatever that may be. (Could be dreaming here, but I think any truly honest scientist would be in favor of this study being done, and done right.)

I do think that working to fund and design a really good study would be a positive direction for all--it involves doing something proactive and positive instead of just expending all energy fighting people who just are determined not to listen, think, or question. The downside is that it would take some time, even after the funds were rounded up, to set up the study, collect the data, and do the analyses--a couple of years, at a minimum, is my guess.

So time's a wasting--this controversy has gone on long enough already. It is time to do some real research to discover the truth about the full, longterm consequences of the US vaccine schedule--and it is quite clear at this point that we can't depend on the govt to ever undertake or accomplish it.

Sue

Deb in IL

WAY TO GO!!!!!!! Informed parents like you are the reason places like AoA strive so hard to spread the word. :)

"How far does our grassroots reach extend? Could we get a few volunteers from each state to help coordinate an internet effort?"

I KNOW we could. We could start with the rescue angels. In the book "The Virus and The Vaccine" balls across the United States were held at the same night/time to raise funds for lifelong care of those afflicted with poliomyelitis. Why can we not do this for autism/autism research? Get all the orgs to back it up, NAA, Unlocking Autism, dare I say ASA & AS? Agree all the funding goes to a single source, Gen Rescue, Safeminds, who ever is willing to take it on. Those are two orgs I trust.

All we need is an org to provide the structure & someone like Jenny or Jim to media blitz it. Get some celebs from across the nation to agree to show up at the balls, some well-known music people to perform. Heck, get American Idol in on it, God knows they have enough past performers to fill every party in the nation!

Raising the funds & doing it ourselves is the ONLY way. Why do we want the government to commission more flawed studies to use against us? IF there are around 2 mil people with autism, we can raise the money. I would be willing to suggest I could pull $500 alone from my family/friends. I have one affected child. How many more of us could do it?

Where do we send the money order?

JB,

You have brought up an excellent question. How do we raise this kind of money necessary to perform an unbiased study of vaccinated versus unvaccinated children?

There are many ways to raise money. I mean couldn't each family just send or donate at the very least 10 dollars to a Paypal account?

Anyone else have any ideas? Let's get this study off the ground and into action.

Let's get the $$$ together-- I'll be a fundraiser and a sponsor. Someone has to organize this!!

Ok I got a message on my answering machine today, a robot told me that my child(ren) are over due for their immunizations and IF I bring my child in and have them brought current that CARE SOURCE will give us a $50 gift certificate!!! If I have any questions or concerns I can contact them at 937 224 3300. Too bad I got the message so late because I'm sure I'll be calling tomorrow and saying..."Sure, I'll get them both current, it's only been 2 and a half years, how many do you think they can have at one time? Oh and I sure do want my 50 bucks, I'll be sure to spend on our DAN appts." The worse part is...you can't make them stop offering this. They are preying on people of low income, Care Source is offered by Ohio Medicaid. It's ignorant. Just ignorant.

I think hurryupalready does make a good point- that if we don't get one rolling very soon, they make come up with one that is less than stellar and biased toward their goal. If ARI already has a study going shouldn't we try to beef up that effort? Someone else mentioned documenting one more attempt at asking them about it and then get going on our own with some unbiased statisticians/scientists

Several years ago, I put out an APB for a request for funding to help Generation Rescue with our original phone survey of unvaccinated kids...

There were many generous parents who sent money...typically in 20-100 dollar increments. And, we raised $9K...

Mind you, that was before AoA and things could well be different today, but getting money from a community of parents struggling to help their kids is no small task, I know from experience.

JB

Why wasn't my previous post put up? I believe the integrity of the researchers is every bit as important as the study results themselves. You can have the CDC, Homefirst, GR, Bernadine Healy etc., etc. chosen to study vax/never vax'd children but if they are perceived as being biased the results will not have credibility. Only independent objective researchers, particularly statisticians, would obviously qualify.

Is the fund set up for the vaxed/never vaxed study? Even if the scientists and study design aren't lined up, I don't see any reason not to start raising the money specifically for this purpose.

What Offit is saying is that it would be-- in the orthodox view-- "unethical" if unvaccinated children were found and not forcibly vaccinated.

Deb
I am so glad you found out in time, what these vaccines are capable of doing. Maybe all our work as parents is not in vain and our "internet fodder"? Maybe you can really believe the internet? LOL

For me, as a grandmother now, I am so proud of my NT girls who decided not to vaccinate based upon our family history, and also education on what these vaccine represent (aka, poison, toxic, money, etc).

I see before my very eyes the result of not vaccinting...no autism, smart kiddos, healthy ones...the kids I should have had. It is a bittersweet pill to swallow, on the one hand I am SOOO glad no autism, on the other, it should have been my life.

I agree also, much of the mercury that passes from generation to generation, are from mothers harboring amalgam fillings and or if she is a tuna fish eater/exposed to coal industry.

Dr Walsh once told me, that a mother with amalgams, represents another factor in this epidemic, even if she doesn't vaccinate, it is quite possible to trigger autism in this fashion. Also, babies, in utero, chelate their MOTHERS mercury levels. Copper pipes is the other one, and another email.

Recently, I had an amalgam, last one, fall out on it's own (let's just say a sticky candy got it)...and I kept it. I went over to Coffey Labs in Portland (I have used them before to prove the carpet outgassing chemicals in my home, and yes, I have a friend who works there), and had them put it in a chamber for a month. It was outgassing extreme amounts of mercury. A smidgen mind you, a small filler in my teeth that was at least 30 years old. I will have to find the paper work on it, but needless to say, I was aghast. I gave it to my toxic teeth dentist, and said, gee thanks for the memories...thanks for the autism, and thanks for your non disclosure/gag order ways on how it can cause autism in utero. I didn't joke with him, I was dead serious. I showed him my test, and his face went the shade of apple. I said, this would poison a lake for ten years. No wonder I have CFS, MS symptoms, Hashimotos, etc!! He took me aside, and told me to be quiet. Right.....after a few sighs here or there, I went to his office and sat down and said, I am sure you are aware of this connection. He said he was, but could not express this view to his patients. He has nurses in his office with extreme levels of mercury poisoning. He is now switching or recommending on every level, composits. Of course he can say that now, now, that the Oregon Gag Order is lifted.

So, yes, I have chelated, still am, doing sauna and I feel SOO much better. Is it any wonder our kids also feel better when the load is taken off, and their immune systems come on line again to fight the OTHER things in autism? (aka infections, metabolic problems)

I hope, that this study will come to fruition, however, I am frustrated by the process of gathering what I feel can make sure that it would elucidate that non vaccinated kids are healthier, and not autistic. It may confound factors, if the mother has amalgams or is mercury toxic, so I hope the survey would NOT include children who were exposed in utero to amalgams. Of course, there are other factors in autism, such as our diets.

One researcher friend of mine (neurotoxicologist) is seeing a correlation with corn in the diet, mycotoxins/mold. Those places using it extensively, are seeing premature births, IQ loss and autism. I also think factors like birthing naturally without drugs and pitocins, and terbatulines, and C sections are factors, as well as immediate cord clamping, which is standard procedures in our hospitals. Plus, if parents have infections, like HHV6, Lyme Disease, etc? It's just so hard to get the exact mix, you know? Perhaps a pre survey should be done to weed out the on the fencers (those who are more toxic, have autoimmune issues, etc etc)

For instance, many of you heard in the news of that chimpanzee who attacked a women. Wonder of wonders...he was on the American Diet, and was taking XANAX, and the poor thing had lyme disease. Lyme can make, essentially anyone with neuroborreliosis, extremely disturbed. I have seen a LOT of kids with autism who have lyme, and their family members. Does autism run in families, or infections? BIG QUESTION. This may explain another factor in autism, which is paralleling the autism epidemic at present. You don't need a tick bite to get this disease, mother can have it, and pass it in utero. Read Dr Bransfield/TickBorne Diseases and Autism.

Anyways, I just hope this research will identify known risk factors for autism, and try to seperate as you will, the wheat from the shaft. That way, the accuracy of the result will reflect, that vaccines represent an assault/trigger/initiator on children, causing many and numerous autoimmune and neurological sequale/vaccinosis.

I have also posted, please take the most polluted areas of the country, so that it would be a co factor in autism. California, NJ, Washingtopn and Oregon would be great because it has low selenium soils, which in depletion, would deplete glutathione in the body (no wonder more autism in these states!). Also, they are low (less California), VIT D areas. Just some thoughts, thinking out loud here?

I think it would help if the study had an academic component; it's unfortunate, but if the study was solely done by GR I fear it would be dismissed as biased and/or unserious, no matter how professionally and accurately conducted. What about U-TX/Houston, which did the coal plant/autism study a few years back? Or UC-Davis/MIND institute? They already have loads of data from the CHARGE study. Perhaps it would be less costly to co-sponsor a study through there? I think someone's suggestion of Bernadine Healy as someone to oversee the study is excellent.

I would add, a bit off topic, that something I've always been curious about is the true variance of chemicals within and among vaccine lots. I sure would love it if there were a study that measured toxin and viral levels from samples (taken off the shelves) within and across vaccine lots distributed around the country and abroad. You know, when there's money leftover from the vax/unvax study donations...

J.B.
I think we could raise the 6 million for the study, maybe first we can begin with asking people to pledge a certain amount or a certain amount of children, maybe we could even send letters to pediatricians asking them to pledge money for this study (after all shouldn't pediatricians want to know if they where harming children almost as much as parents) We could tell them the list of pediatricians who care enough to donate will be published.
When we have reached the 6 million pledge mark you ask every one to make good on their pledge, when the 6 million is received then the study can be conducted.
I feel it would be important to have someone like Bernadine Healy to oversee the study to give it unquestionable creditability, I also think it would be important to have people from both sides of the issue to over see the study.
We can do this.

I'm a parent who went through Homefirst, got educated about vaccinations, delay-vax'd my oldest (and now won't do boosters because of increased information on vax). My younger son was born with a gluten-sensitivity that I figured out by elimination diet during breastfeeding. I was allowed to refuse vaccinations because of my concerns and Thank God everyday for having enlightened parents who shouted out loud their concerns.
If I had vax'd my baby, he would have been a statistic, he would have been "one less".
He had odd behaviors (toe-walking, not make-believe playing, spinning, stimming instead of sleeping, insomnia). Sound familiar? His zinc was next to nothin' when I took him to a DAN doc. We're totally biomed, he's nearly normal except for some speach delays, and I don't think he would be diagnosable today because of his advances.
His mercury was high. This came only from me. I've gotten my amalgrams removed, gone GFCF organic and trying to go mostly raw. I'm OTC chelating myself and feeling the difference. My son was born polluted from my own mercury issues.
I'm telling this story so the parents who have been screaming know that their message reached me. I'm a volunteer of your army and support the books, support the vax v un-vax studies, support the theory of multi-faceted environmental issues are causing our kids harm.
See you at the A1 conference.

In the UK some parents have already written a book:

http://www.jabs.org.uk/

“In July 2007 the General Medical Council, the regulatory body for doctors in Britain, began a ‘trial’ of Dr Andrew Wakefield,Professor John Walker-Smith and Professor Simon Murch. The three doctors were charged under some seventy headings after having published the conclusion of research and clinical practice that suggested a link between the MMR vaccine, bowel disease and regressive autism in some children.
 
The complainant is a pro-MMR journalist. The GMC took almost four years to produce the evidence and the hearing itself is expected to last around two years, making it one of the longest proceedings in British history.
 
The parents of MMR vaccine damaged children have not been allowed a voice in the GMC hearing. This book is written almost entirely by these parents and for the first time it gives voice to the injustice that has been done to them and their children.”
 

It might be a way to raise funds if a certain percentage of every book sold went to fund a vax/non-vax study.

Great piece, J.B.

I'm on board for a GR coordinated and funded independent vaccinated verses unvaccinated study.
Please get the plans rolling before the CDC decides to do a less than ethical study. Don't forget to make it easy for people to donate cash at the autism biomed conferences, too.

Well, if Ron Paul can garnish together 5 million in a single night - I suspect the Autism Community could do the same. After all, isn't us Libertarian types (you know... the kind that wants the government to get the hell out of their lives and stick to doing whatever it is they poorly do) that don't turn our backs on the possibility that vaccines can harm *some* children? I'd guess that some are also staunch supporters of free markets, sound monetary policy, opposed to the Fed's unConstitutional role of printing fiat money, etc...? My suspicion is yes.

AA

I have often wondered whether the difference between the percentages for older and younger boys in GR's phone survey was because:

- The older boys received more mercury in their vaccines than the younger boys. The level of thimerosal has decreased in vaccines, though it has not been entirely eliminated.

- The younger boys received more mercury from the environment than the older boys, due to the increasing amount of mercury in the environment.

The L.A. Times and N.Y. Times have both had articles in recent years saying that there is an increasing amount of mercury in the environment due in part to the increasing number of coal burning power plants in China, which do not even have the emission control devises used here, and which (according to these articles) emit mercury that wafts over the Pacific Ocean at high altitudes and rains down on the U.S. (hence higher rates of autism in rainier areas, per recent study).

I don't believe that all autism is caused by mercury; I believe that there are plenty of other ingredients in vaccines which can trigger inflammation in the brain. But it does seem likely that mercury is a big factor.

As always, JB, thank you so so much for all that you do.

Allison, I think that a book is an awesome idea. I don't think people are actually taking time to ask parents of children with autism: WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED? Do they think it's none of their business? I ask everyone I come in contact with (I have children but none with autism) because I want to know in order to protect my own children from harm. Every story is different, but there are usually arrows pointing to the vaccines.

Maybe I'm far too naive, but I'm wondering if we could conduct our own unvaccinated/vaccinated child study, a follow-up to Generation Rescue's earlier survey. How far does our grassroots reach extend? Could we get a few volunteers from each state to help coordinate an internet effort? I'm in PA and would gladly offer my time. Would it be too ambitious for us to develop an online survey and distribute it through yahoo groups? We could target an eclectic sample (for instance, ASD parents, homeschoolers, book clubs, sports groups, etc.) to ensure a diverse population. We'd need some impartial statisticians to compile the data, maybe grad students. OK, maybe this idea is insane and it would require a prohibitive amount of time and effort, but we're never going to get the gov't to do a legitimate study. And nobody could complain that we're diverting precious funds from other autism research. So, as Rachel Maddow would say, "Talk me down". Any thoughts? Is this pie-in-the-sky? Any other ideas along these lines? JB is right. We have to figure out a way to do this ourselves.

There are many in the healthcare community that would contribute to this as well. My two kids aren't vaccinated, nor will the third be.

I hereby propose that Generation Rescue, under the auspices of JB Handley, undertake the task of investigating the dangers of vaccines by inviting an independent research organization to do a vaxed vs. unvaxed childrens' study.

The reason I propose that Generation Rescue do this research (as opposed to the other bio-med friendly autism organizations), is as under:

1. It is pioneered by the greatest ever Dad Warrior amongst all the many dads out there (no offense to the other dads intended).

2. It has the largest parent support base of all the autism organizations out there. Face it, Rescue Angels is a great concept.

3. Generation Rescue, by virtue of all the ads it ran a few years ago, has brand recognition.

4. Everyone knows and likes JB Handley and trust him to do the job well.

5. Nobody understands the issues and what is involved in the actual research methodology better than JB Handley (he has done it before and its familiar territory).

6. It is backed by Jim Carrey and Jenny McCarthy who have recognition and clout.

7. Donating to Generation Rescue is easy. Just click on the donate button on the website. The web address is easy to remember.

8. I can't think of a single reason as to why Generation Rescue should not do this study.

For goodness sake, all Gerberding does is talk, talk, talk, making absolutely no sense. She reminds of the the adult characters in the "Peanuts" series. Rambling, rambling circular explanations about why the CDC knows nothing about vaccine safety.

Gerberding has been saying a vax/unvax study "should be done" for 5 years- yet it never actually comes even close to happening. I wonder why...Could it be that she is ingenously attempting to placate the public but in reality knows the CDC has no intention at all of studying their own insanely aggressive vax schedule for fear of what they might discover?

After a while parents everywhere started assuming that virtually everything Gerberding says and or promises to do about autism is a lie.

Wait, huh? How exactly do you "seek an autism diagnosis." And more importantly, how do you NOT seek a diagnosis. When my son was 2 years old, EVERYWHERE I went people recognized that there was something wrong with him. And he's considered high functioning. A two year old who doesn't talk gets lots of funny looks and comments from lifeguards to cashiers. The only way for a child with autism to NOT get diagnosed would be to not leave the house and have no contact with anyone. Autism is NOT subtle even in a two year old. Two year olds talk in full sentences and interact.

If your going to do a study on vax/unvax make sure to exclude kids who got autism from their mother's taking valproic acid or tributelene to stop premature labor. Both are generally accepted to cause autism. I know a couple of mothers of twins who blame tributelene for their child/children's autism.

I thought the study of vax/unvax dogs someone linked to yesterday was really interesting. Seems like enough proof to me.
Of course, watching what happened to my son was enough proof to me. But, I'm really dumb and think that mercury is BAD.

Hello friends -

"No studies have compared the incidence of autism in vaccinated, unvaccinated, or alternatively vaccinated children (i.e., schedules that spread out vaccines, avoid combination vaccines, or include only select vaccines). "

Hehe. The dirty little secret hidden in the above sentence is that you can replace the word 'alternatively' and 'recommended' without altering the outcome.

Here is a thought experiment that those with certainty about our current vaccine schedule have a difficult time arguing against, which indeed goes a ways towards illustrating the intellectual bankruptcy of their position. Instead of a vaccinated / non vaccinated schedule, I once proposed a vaccinated / heavily vaccinated schedule. Take two sets of children; each gets four injections per vaccine. One set of children gets one vaccine and three saline injections. The other set of children gets four vaccines. Evaluate for chronic health outcomes. No child is left susceptible to dangerous diseases, and we have no worries about differences in seeking out health care, or other the problems of generating matched populations. If we are to believe Mr. Offit that a child can safely handle 10,000 vaccinations at once, we should have no concerns over this being dangerous to any children. Even better, for the herd anyways, we may be able to decrease the numbers of children for whom vaccination fails to provide resistance; i.e., instead of 97% of children being immune, maybe the treatment group reaches 98%.

The only counterargument I was able to elicit with this plan was that even though the risk of side effects was small, it was still unethical to expose children to the risk of additional medications. For some curious reason, in this particular instance, the cocktail napkin math of Mr. Offit is not considered sufficiently convincing. But once this gets admitted, the dirty little secret rears its head again; without having evaluated what we have now against anything, how can we tell that more might be dangerous, or that less might be less so? If we only understand one side of the equation, the dangers of communicable diseases, how can we make intelligent conclusions as to the safety of our current schedule? This was the point at which my postings were moderated, or the author simply stopped responding to my questions.

- pD

"I'm sure Julie Gerberding had a point with her answer, for the life of me I don't know what it was."

I think we know what her point was. Deflection.

I sent an e-mail to AS last week asking them why they aren't doing this study -- especially since I've raised money for them in the past and plan to do so in the future (I stopped for a while because I didn't like the direction they were moving but things have changed). No response as yet.

Thanks for your work, JB.
I would love to see a series of books containing nothing but the personal stories of families affected by vaccine-induced autism -or- vaccine-injured kids. It would have to be a series because there are so many, but this would hopefully serve to get people's attention. I truly believe that "normal" families are interested in reading our personal stories (think about the growing number of people who have personal friends who are affected). And let's face it, the evidence is all over the stories of our kids. Is there a way to do something like this where all the profits would go toward the study? Volunteer editors, each responsible for only 10 or 15 stories? I'd volunteer my time, and my story.

If we do not come together as a community and fund this study it will never get done. Even if the government did do a study it would be designed to exonerate vaccines. Some things to consider: this study must be impartial, it must be so flawlessly done that the vaccine zealots can not pick it apart. Who should fund this study? If we do it all ourselves it will be construed as a "Bought Study". Should we ask the government to pay half knowing full well they will never contribute? Maybe we need to make the request just to be on record as having done so then fund the study ourselves. There is much to consider. We have all been put through gut wrenching heart crushing hell trying to save our vaccine damaged children. Goddammit, we want the world to know the truth . We need to do this now. WHERE DO WE SEND OUR CHECK? Gregg and Julia Kunkowski

Jeff, I was wondering about this too - the number to include in the study. I was thinking of organization by state - 100 vaxed vs. 100 unvaxed kids in every state would be 10,000 kids. Certainly, that exceeds the number of kids in most of the studies 'proving' an autism/vaccine link doesn't exist.
Maybe Jay Gordon would be willing to help us design...

I will be a sponser to your plan! In my opinion this is the most urgent crisis going on in our economy and it is, unfortunately, only going to be getting worse. When you really get into the nitty gritty of how these leaders of the CDC and other health organizations think, one always looses their appetite... The deception they represent and market is criminal and I can only pray that one day the guilty are charged.

It is all about fear. Just this morning, the #1 news story on local news, a seventh grade student died from complications of the flu.

The reporter did not ask whether or not the child received flu vaccine. That would have been my first question.

J.B. Handley

How many children would need to be in the study? Maybe 6000

How much would it cost per child? Maybe $1000.00 per child

Start a fund raiser to sponsor a child.

I think you/we can get 6000 people to sponsor a child for $1,000.00
6000 X $1000.00 = $6,000,000.00 and we are there. We can do this!

I know you could count me in.

Get Dr. Bernadine Healy to oversee the study.

What about using the unvaccinated kids from Homefirst for this study? Wouldn't that negate the theory that their parents were not " healthcare-seeking" or that they would not have pursued an autism diagnosis? As to funding for the study, I agree with what you said before about Autism Speaks being the best hope. Now that Alison Singer is gone, perhaps they would be more responsive to pressure from other autism groups.

Why peo[le are so frightened of the minor diseases of childhood is beyond me. Actually it is not beyond me, these diseases scare people because big pharma and their unholy partner the CDC told them they should be frightened. First it was measles, then mumps and rubella, finally after that it was chickenpox. People should be much more worried about life long damage from vaccines than their kid spending a week in bed covered in red spots and running a fever.

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