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Are Vaccines a Shot in The Arm for a Pediatrician's Bottom Line?

Shot_in_the_arm_crazy_docManaging Editor's Note: Pediatricians admit that vaccines bring patients through the door. But are they profitable?  Would you bring your baby to the doctor every couple of months if it weren't for "well visits?"  Bottom line for us? Find a family practitioner who is less dependent on vaccinations for his livelihood and still knows how to treat illness.  You won't get the vaccine hard sell that way, giving you the chance to follow the CDC statement that the AAP schedule is a only a guideline that parents and physicians can tailor to their child's health.

Most pediatricians are likely to keep giving vaccinations to kids, partly because of altruism and partly because giving shots drives business. "For us to give up vaccines would hurt our core business because that's why kids come in," Lessin said.

But family practice doctors — who are not as dependent on vaccinations for patients — may decide the shots are too much of a financial headache, he added.

Indeed, the new studies reflected that schism: Overall 11 percent of physicians have seriously considered stopping vaccinations for privately insured patients. But 21 percent of family doctors felt that way, compared with just 5 percent of pediatricians.

The financial problem has been getting worse in recent years, as more vaccines have come on the market, experts say. Some have been unusually expensive, including Gardasil, a vaccine for girls against cervical cancer which is given in three doses over six months and is priced at about $375 for the series.

Read the full article HERE.

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sdtech

Jorge:

Alice Ottoboni wrote a book in 1991 called “The Dose Makes the Poison” On page 113 she gives a graph for a “No Threshold” curve and a “Threshold” curve for plotting Effect versus Dose.

Table salt has a “Threshold” curve for example. At low doses it is not toxic but high doses are fatal.

But the literature indicates a “NO THRESHOLD” response curve for brain cell injury for mercury. That means that brain cells are still destroyed at a cellular level as doses approach zero.

And a study reported this year shows over one nanogram per milliter of mercury in blood of children for up to 5 days after receiving Thimerosal in shots. See http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/reprint/121/2/e208 . A simple Avagadro’s number calculation (using a conversion factor of 20 drops per milliliter) shows that just one nanogram gives 150 billion atoms of mercury per drop of blood circulating though the brain of a child.

And the Simpsonwood transcript. “The other thing is that each time you have an exposure there is a certain amount of irreversible damage, and that as you [increase] exposure the damage adds up. Not because of dose, but because they are irreversible.” Dr. Robert Brent, Developmental Biologist and Pediatrician from Thomas Jefferson University and Dupont Hospital for Children, CDC Simpsonwood Transcript, http://www.safeminds.org/legislation/foia/Simpsonwood_Transcript.pdf , 2000, p. 163.

YG

Kelli Ann Davis,
Good question. I wonder if Jorge P read Dr.Robert Sears' article on aluminum in vaccine. It was in Lisa's comment following the article " Dr. Sears on Growing Vaccination Concerns" posted here on Nov 21,2008.

Kelli Ann Davis

Jorge:

Point One:

“Vaccines, like any other type of medicines that have possible side-effects, are thought to be worth the risk compared to the alternative.”

Let me guess -- *you* think the alternative is a dreaded disease; when in actuality, the *real alternative* is 1.) Administering the vaccine in a single vial or 2.) Using a different, NON-TOXIC preservative.

Using a *neurotoxin* when you don't have to is what I would call true "absurdity"; there is absolutely NO reason to use mercury in a vaccine, period.

Point Two: (and you may want to put on your science hat for this one)

“One thing my dad always has emphasized is, as you may have heard before: "the dose makes the poison….So, while all chemicals are poisonous, they are only so, in the right amounts.”

Okay, let’s go with your *dose* reasoning, shall we?

Mercury’s a chemical. It’s poisonous. So pray tell, what is the magical, pie-in-the-sky *dose* which makes it go from *safe* to *dangerous*??? You got a study that demonstrates what number that is?? I mean, if dose is the key (like you dad suggests) then WHAT is the safe dose for this neurotoxin??? After all, we wouldn't want to cross the magical line and use a dangerous dose, now would we??

So what is it??


Jorge P.

@karenatlanta:
I'm not all that altruistic but I may be more than a little optimistic and naive.

However, to say that giving people a shot of "neurotoxin" goes against their oath is completely absurd. Vaccines, like any other type of medicines that have possible side-effects, are thought to be worth the risk compared to the alternative.

If we're going to be using this "neurotoxin" fear-mongering language, might as well call radiation treatment for cancer, "death ray" treatment or call chemotherapy "poison cocktail," etc.

Two things to remember when it comes to all these therapies. They are applied in controlled and localized doses.

I've also had the luck of a very scientific upbringing thanks to my dad being an science nut and industrial chemical engineer. He's worked for Dow, 3M, and other chemical companies on and with TRULY dangerous substances making pesticides, new materials, etc. Aldrich and Sigma catalogs were staple coffee table books growing up. Stories of him washing his hands in hydrochloric acid to clean off the residue of other chemicals are still fresh in my memory.

One thing my dad always has emphasized is, as you may have heard before: "the dose makes the poison." Having talked to him about mercury, lead, fluoride, and other chemicals being target of modern fear-mongering, the answer always comes down to, "Yes, those subtances are poisonous and dangerous IN THE RIGHT QUANTITIES WITHIN A GIVEN AMOUNT OF TIME." Certain substances, such as mercury CAN accumulate in the body, over time, yes, but it is largely nonreactive and harmless to humans in most normal cases unless you're a mercury miner or a hatter circa the 1890s.

One thing to consider is that even water is LITERALLY a neurotoxin. I am not talking about having your stomach explode from drinking too much water or drowning in it. I am talking about drinking too much water leads to electrolyte levels dropping to where your neurons cannot transmit information to one another and your brain shutting off. just look up water poisoning cases; they're a lot more common that you may think.

So, while all chemicals are poisonous, they are only so, in the right amounts.

Meg N

Funny story. I recently had to take my son to his Ped because he fell and got a concussion, and we needed to follow up. We had been there maybe 2 weeeks prior because his eye swelled up and I was concerned that he needed help.(That ended up resolving with a homeopathic remedy I gave him-they prescribed him some erythromiacin eye cream "in case" his eye was infected...OY.) And maybe 3 months before that I took him in to have his palate checked out and they did a "well child" on him then. So here we are getting checked for any brain trauma (which, by the way, was a total joke. I don't think this PA had any idea what she was doing...) and the PA brings up our next well child visit. So I remarked to her that we don't do vaccines and we had just been here 3 times in the last 3 months, that we have professionals in our home and at his pre-school watching his development like hawks so do we really need to come back? She just stared at me, mouth open and it took her a long time to come up with "Well, it would be good for you to come back in March."
My point is, of course we're not going to take our children every few months to the docs if we're not vaccinating-especially if people are taking their children to homeopaths and/or naturopaths. God forbid this would free them up some time to actually examine their patients and spend time listening to them, rather than reading a chart and writing a prescription, shaking mom and dad's hands and leaving the room.
WRONG ATTITUDE here, doctors!! If they had less patients come in they could provide QUALITY care, but it seems from the man quoted in this article the interest is in QUANTITY care. Shame on you!!! And this would be the reason we only see the mainstream docs when I need a quick diagnosis or forms filled out for school.

karenatlanta

Jorge:
You are quite altruistic. Doctors like any profession have good and bad personas.
Except they take an oath that vows to "first do no harm".
So if you are injecting a mutagenic neurotoxic flu shot with 25mcgs of the second most dangerous chemical on the planet you are violating your own creed.
It is perfectly plausible that a doctor would do that to keep patients coming through the door.
It is unfathomable however that the AAP would not demand a safe, non-toxic schedule.
Just remember in this article it is Mr. Lessin, who is vice president of a 24-physician pediatric practice, that made that statement - not a parent.
I find this whole article to just be more public fear mongering for government subsidized vaccines dollars.

Tim Kasemodel

Maggie brings up a good point about Tayloe's fear tactics.....

Maybe I missed something, and I don't have time to follow this up but where did Stobbe get this so called "fact" from???

"But health officials are worried. Reimbursement concerns were behind an exodus of doctors from vaccine programs in the 1980s, which contributed to a terrible resurgence of measles in 1989-91 that caused 11,000 hospitalizations and 123 deaths."

Is this similar to the "36,000 deaths from flu" statistic????

....and this gem....

"This year, U.S. measles cases rose to the highest level in more than a decade, mainly because some parents are opting out of getting their kids vaccinated."

Does Stobbe have a named source for this information??? This sounds more like an OPINION, not a quote from a summary or conclusion of a study.

I am soooo tired of needing the services of a proctologist to find where these reporters and health officials get their information......

Tim

Marni

Angie wrote:

"Well, so is this going to be the reason why doc's are going to be 'giving up vaccines'....surely it wouldn't be the TRUTH that they are not SAFE, would it be?

And then, do they think we are THAT stupid? They are TOTALLY trying to distract everyone from the REAL reasons doc's are questioning vaccines...argh!"

I COULDN'T AGREE MORE. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I THOUGHT WHEN I READ THIS STORY EARLIER TODAY. Thank you for posting this!

Jorge P.

I work as an IT consultant for many types of medical practitioners from neurologists, internists, nephrologists, etc. All of my clients I've asked about vaccines, support them, including one with an autistic child. I would say, only from personal experience, that they all do it from sincere medical professionalism and that, while they do profit from it, they would not NEVER vaccinate someone they thought would be hurt in any way by the vaccine. One doctor, in particular, with I've grown very close, has shown me the compassion and true humanity that I would hope to find in every medical practitioner. Not only does he help many people for free when their insurances are refused or they're out of a job, but I could wager my life that everything he does as a doctor is only with his patients' best interest. Am I biased? Sure. Working with him and many doctors, I have an insider's view without being an actual doctor. I have grown fond of most of them because of their compassion and sympathy for their patients.

Bottom line: I do NOT believe for even a second that majority of doctors use vaccines they believe would hurt people for profit.

Having said all that, the doctor I mentioned above who has an autistic child does believe that vaccines had something to do with her son's disease. She does still give out thimerosal-free vaccines, however. So, despite what has been said in this blog, actual doctors, even those with autistic children don't buy into the FUD of all those "toxins" found in many blogs, including this one.

Maggie

Doctor's aren't going to give up vaccines. This is a threat for more money. This is all part of Tayloe's plan for more money for pediatricians. You know, threaten to not give vaccines, complain that it costs too much money and force patients/insurance/government to fork over more money to prevent a dreaded chicken pox outbreak. It's so transparent. Tayloe thinks he's so clever.

Angie

Well, so is this going to be the reason why doc's are going to be 'giving up vaccines'....surely it wouldn't be the TRUTH that they are not SAFE, would it be?

And then, do they think we are THAT stupid? They are TOTALLY trying to distract everyone from the REAL reasons doc's are questioning vaccines...argh!

bek

Off topic but: just registered my almost 5 year old for kindergarten next year. In our state we have religious, philosophical or moral exemption, just check one and sign your name. (Which I did today.) However in 2 places in the welcome packet it lists the up-to-date immunization schedule and states that "the immunizations are required for entry into Kindergarten in the fall" and to "make sure your child's immunizations are up to date". While the exempton option is available, it seems someone must feel that the fewer people know about this option the better.

Stagmom

Don't worry - pediatricians are totally concerned for your kids' health! They are going after the SUGAR in ORGANIC formula! (But don't mind the Melamine in the mainstream formulas that line their pockets...)
http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/05/pediatricians-p.html

CJ's Mommy

I think I read the same paper Andrea. I was surprised to see both articles in the paper AT ALL... much less the same page.

karenatlanta

Last year when I took my daughter in to the pediatrician I was shamed that it had been such a long time since we had been in.
I said: "Gee I thought that was a good thing, we just haven't been sick. My kids eat right and take their vitamins."
We wouldn't have even bothered to go in, had we not needed a note for school.
The whole wellness visit/vaccination schedule is a sham to keep pediatricians in business.
Once they nail kids with all those toxic shots they have a 18 years of Asthma, ADHD, Autism and Juvenile Diabetes to treat.
No thanks.
Family practitioners are the way to go.

Anne Dachel

Where are pediatricians when it comes to the chemical additives common in most food that are related to the endless health problems plaguing our kids? Or the toxic cleaners and other chemicals in our homes and schools that affect children's health?

Health only seems to come from vaccinations at well-baby visits. I'm not sure what Stobbe's point is in this piece.

If pediatricians don't vaccinate, they'll lose their raison d'etre according to Stobbe, yet it seems that they need to make more money doing it.

Anne Dachel
Media editor

Andrea

In my paper today (yes I still actually read the newpaper that is delivered to my house)on the back page page of the first section was this article about doctors possibly slowing down on giving shots because they lack profitability. Right below, was an article about a study that says: Financial strain on families from the cost of autism.

I did not miss the irony.

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