David Kirby on HuffPo: The Presidential Debate and Autism

Click HERE to read David Kirby's Last Night's Autism Debate -- Who Will Win the Special Needs Vote? at Huffington Post.

Comments

[PhillyLisa]

Twyla, he has already said he is against selective vaccination. He was quite clear on that. It was posted here on September 8th. And as has been pointed out here several times, a screening is not a vaccine.

[Twyla]

CM, he does say, "I believe that every American has the right also to refuse these screenings voluntarily if they so choose." Yes that's a bit vague, but to me it indicates that he does believe in the right to choose. I would not draw the conclusion that he is against vaccine choice.

[CM]

My biggest concern is the issue of vaccine choice.

On the A-Champ questionaire:
"Q: Would you support a federal right for families and individuals to choose for themselves which vaccines they will use?

Obama: I support screening for a wide variety of diseases and disorders. Early diagnosis and early intervention are the best practice for most illnesses. I believe that every American has the right to access these screenings, and I believe that every American has the right also to refuse these screenings voluntarily if they so choose. I also support a thorough and independent review of our nation’s vaccination policies. "

He doesn't answer the question about vaccine choice. He just says he's for health screenings. By choosing to completely avoid answering that question plus his previous statements about vaccine choice he has shown us clearly his current stance towards vaccines is NO he does not support vaccine choice. Neither candidate is perfect, but I'm not voting for someone who is AGAINST VACCINE CHOICE.

[Twyla]

PhillyLisa -
Yes, it is true that there are some questions answered pretty clearly and others not. At least he does say:

- "I will fully fund IDEA so that we provide children with the support they need to receive a free and appropriate education in the least restrictive environment"

- "I will go beyond the Combating Autism Act to develop a comprehensive autism policy that invests $1 billion annually by the end of my first term in office to address ASD on all fronts"

- "I support the removal of thimerosal from all vaccines and work to ensure that Americans have access to vaccines that are mercury free"

- "Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) is the fastest growing developmental disorder in the United Sates and, perhaps the world. One in 150 children is diagnosed with ASD. These numbers cannot be explained solely by increased awareness or changes to the diagnostic criteria. It is a health crisis and I will act accordingly."

- "There is much evidence to suggest that ASD is a genetically-based neurological condition with environmental triggers. As president, I will lead an effort to conduct research to confirm these findings and study the potential triggers. We must find out why many Americans have ASD and other special needs, the causes, and best treatments and intervention."

- "I believe Americans must know the health effects that caused by the presence of mercury in vaccines. I will also support an examination of the National Vaccine Injury Compensation program, a program designed to compensate those injured by vaccinations."

- "ASD affects behavior, communication and socialization and means that Americans with ASD will have a lifetime struggle to fully integrate within the community."

These answers are pretty clear. Whether he will follow through if elected, we don't know. But it seems to me that these statements are a lot more specific than what has come from McCain's campaign.

Obama does NOT specifically state that he believes autism is caused by vaccines, that the vaccine program has problems, that he would fund a study comparing vaxed vs. unvaxed, that vaccines are one of the environmental triggers. But McCain is not saying those things either.

Sarah Palin has a baby with DS and a nephew with autism, but she has not said anything much more specific than that we would have her support. It's not clear whether she has even devoted any time to studying up on DS -- I have not heard any specifics from her on this -- she may be too busy campaigning. One mom compared Gov. Palin's knowledge of autism to her knowledge of foreign policy based on being able to see Russia from her house.

I will make my decision on who to vote for based on other issues besides vaccines and autism, because I don't believe either candidate or their VPs have shown a complete grasp of our issues. But, if I were deciding solely based on vaccines and autism, I would still choose Obama, because he does show some signs of getting it.

[PhillyLisa]

I'm more confused than ever by Obama. Yes, he wants IDEA fully funded, and he wants thimerosal removed from vaccines. But he's not actually answering a lot of the questions that were asked. He doesn't say how much funding he will request to study environmental triggers, and that was a specific question that was asked. He also evaded the question of whether or not vaccines should be investigated as a cause. He talks of restoring confidence, etc., but that does not answer the question. When he talks of environmental triggers, he is not specifically saying vaccines. I think that's a hot-button issue he wants to avoid right now. He also refused to say whether or not he would support a study of the differences of outcomes between vaccinated and non-vaccinated groups. When asked about the right for families and individuals to choose which vaccines they will use, he talks about screenings and the right to refuse those screenings. That doesn't answer the question. I want the right to refuse the vaccine, not the screening. Obama says an awful lot, and it all sounds very nice, but does anyone really know what he's saying?

[Twyla]

A-Champ sent questionnaires to the presidential candidates, and Obama's responses can be found here:

www.ageofautism.com/2008/03/obama-and-clint.html

http://ssl.capwiz.com/a-champ/issues/alert/?alertid=11088836

Some excerpts:

Q: Will you fully fund the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act?

Obama: As a member of the Illinois State Legislature I fought to support special education and as a U.S. Senator I have continued that fight. As president, I will fully fund IDEA so that we provide children with the support they need to receive a free and appropriate education in the least restrictive environment based upon best practices and with the goal of fully including them in schools and the community. As the number of children diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders (ASD) increases, we must ensure that teachers, classrooms and school districts are prepared to meet their special needs.

Q: Do you believe that the Combating Autism Act provides enough money to find the cause, or causes, of autism andeffective treatments?

Obama: I supported the Combating Autism Act of 2006. It was a good start. As President I will make sure that money appropriated by Congress for autism spectrum disorders reaches the organizations and people that they were intended for. Research is important but it is only one of the steps we need to take. Americans with ASD should be supported throughout the lifespan. Early diagnosis and early intervention has been proven to lessen the amount and intensity of services Americans with ASD need as they grow older. We must appropriate the funds needed to support all Americans with disabilities. As president, I will go beyond the Combating Autism Act to develop a comprehensive autism policy that invests $1 billion annually by the end of my first term in office to address ASD on all fronts...

Q: How much funding will you request to study potential environmental triggers of autism?

Obama: There is much evidence to suggest that ASD is a genetically-based neurological condition with environmental triggers. As president, I will lead an effort to conduct research to confirm these findings and study the potential triggers. We must find out why many Americans have ASD and other special needs, the causes, and best treatments and intervention.

Q: Do you believe there is an autism epidemic in the United States?

Obama: Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) is the fastest growing developmental disorder in the United Sates and, perhaps the world. One in 150 children is diagnosed with ASD. These numbers cannot be explained solely by increased awareness or changes to the diagnostic criteria. It is a health crisis and I will act accordingly. There are many Americans with special needs. They will have a partner in the federal government under my administration.

Q: Do you think vaccines should be investigated as a possible cause of autism?

Obama: I believe that the next president must restore confidence and open communication with the American people. This includes environmental policies and government funded research. An Obama administration will go where the science and the facts lead us, whether it is about climate change or toxic heavy metals in our environment.

Q: What will you do to protect Americans, especially young children and pregnant women, from exposure to mercury through vaccines?

Obama: I support the removal of thimerosal from all vaccines and work to ensure that Americans have access to vaccines that are mercury free.

Q: What will you do to provide for the lifetime care that 250,000 to 500,000 current children with autism will need in the future?

Obama: ASD is not just a medical issue nor a children's issue. ASD affects behavior, communication and socialization and means that Americans with ASD will have a lifetime struggle to fully integrate within the community. However, the nation must also work to recognize the valued role that Americans with special needs have within our communities. Americans with special needs must be supported throughout their lifetimes. As President, I will work with the special needs community to ensure that those with ASD acquire the skills and education they need, achieve to their fullest capabilities and live the independent life of a full citizen in their community. I will support programs that create opportunities, improve the quality of life and maximize potential for all individuals with ASD and their families.

Q: Would you support a large-scale federal study of the differences in health outcomes between vaccinated and unvaccinated groups?

Obama: Experience has taught that effective medical research must be "large-scale" and well funded. I believe Americans must know the health effects that caused by the presence of mercury in vaccines. I will also support an examination of the National Vaccine Injury Compensation program, a program designed to compensate those injured by vaccinations.

Q: Would you support a federal right for families and individuals to choose for themselves which vaccines they will use?

Obama: I support screening for a wide variety of diseases and disorders. Early diagnosis and early intervention are the best practice for most illnesses. I believe that every American has the right to access these screenings, and I believe that every American has the right also to refuse these screenings voluntarily if they so choose. I also support a thorough and independent review of our nation’s vaccination policies.

Q: Are you satisfied that the federal vaccine approval process is free of conflicts of interests, transparent and rigorous?

Obama: As President, I will conduct a thorough examination of all federal programs to ensure that they are effective and operating in the best interests of the American people. And I will ensure that sound and unbiased science, not ideology, guides decisions made in my administration.

**************

Last I heard, McCain had not even responded to A-Champ's questionnaire. I Googled and did not find a reponse from McCain. If there was one, perhaps someone can provide a link.

Candidates make many promises while campaigning; for example, George Bush promised to remove thimerosal from vaccines, but he did not do so.

At this point, we cannot be sure of what either candidate would do. But I see no reason to prefer McCain over Obama.

[Kerbob]

Duh, with all the mangling going on with what exactly the Debate III means for our children I forgot about this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zgIUdeF17A

Even David Kirby will admit he (sort of) attacked John McCain with a tin foil hat article.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/senator-mccain-strong-e_b_89318.html

[CA Alamo Joe]

Bottle feeding followed by MMR is one way to develop autism.

About one fifth of autistic patients have gout.
The severity of gout is related to the severity of sleep apnea, and treating sleep apnea also treats gout. It looks like the gout experienced by autistic children and others is caused by sleep apnea.

The patient profile for both gout and sleep apnea is "Overweight men and women after menopause". Children with gout implies an environmental change. The change seems to be sleep apnea in children. What causes sleep apnea? Bottle feeding predisposes the child to sleep apnea. (Google: "palmer apnea snort") This is consistent with bottle feeding as a risk for colitis, ear infections and respiratory problems. (Beaudry on Pubmed)

Bottle feeding predisposes the child to sleep apnea but the MMR vaccine can trigger the transition to sleep apnea.

Now, please consider the result of someone punched in the abdomen two hundred or three hundred times a day, every day. It should not be a surprise one if the intestines fail resulting in colitis, or the pancreas stops functioning resulting in diabetes or the kidneys malfunction resulting in gout. During apneas the diaphragm makes multiple attempts at increased effort to overcome the blockage.

Of course during the blockage, the contents of the lungs are not changed. The result is lower blood oxygen levels. The brain runs on oxygen. Do you want more details? Google: "three sources of autism'.

[CM]

Gary, Those are great ideas. I hope someone will implement them. Do you think it would be beneficial to start some type of petition to send these ideas to congress?

And as for "On September 12 in Middletown NJ, Obama stated that he doesn't favor philosophical exemptions." Yikes!! So he's stated his position against vaccine choice on more than one occasion and that's definitely not what I want to hear.

[Gary Krasner]

David Kirby covered a lot of ground in a balanced article. But still, there were a 3 points I thought could have been made---granted they may be deemed partisan.

First, with respect to Kirby's comment:

QUOTE-----"Ouch. Obama is right, of course. No one is going to cure autism (or anything) while a mandatory federal spending freeze is in place."-----UNQUOTE.

On the surface, it might seem as though McCain may be inconsistent. In other words, how can he be determined to resolve the autism problem without spending money on the problem?

But there are a couple of legitimate answers to that. First, one need not necessarily appropriate money to address every problem. If McCain feels that vaccines are to blame for most autism, then there are a number of measures he can take that wouldn't cost anything. Indeed, they would save the government money. He can, for example, do the following (A to C):

A. Stop rewarding state health agencies who most forcefully compel parents to vaccinate their children. IN OTHER WORDS, remove the MONETARY INCENTIVES in federal grants which provides proportionally greater funding to states with the highest vaccination rates.

B. Stop the CDC from lobbying states to rescind state vaccination exemptions. Instead, make the CDC furnish states with model legislation for philosophical exemption provisions to school vaccination laws.

C. Remove the protections from civil lawsuits that vaccine makers obtained under VICP in 1988.

The other answer would be that it is not inconsistent to take the realistic view that spending will have to constrained, and autism research or benefit programs may be affected. Until you actually get ready to write the budget, with input from many budget analysts and policymakers, no President can make any promises on dollar amounts.

The fact that a candidate is making noises to indicate where his priorities lie should suffice.

Which brings me to point number 2, which is that Obama had made an important priority clear: On September 12 in Middletown NJ, Obama stated that he doesn't favor philosophical exemptions. Insufficient public criticism of that statement by activists allowed Obama to avoid having to clarify and possibly back off from that stand. As a result, McCain saw no advantage in besting Obama on that issue, by aligning himself with "parent choice."

Finally, the third point involves the criticism of Palin. It would have been a more complete assessment of her to have noted that as a religious person, and as a mother, and as a pro-family conservative, and as someone less politically inclined to favor the "it takes a village" philosophy, all leads one to believe that she would side with the moral ethic over the utilitarian ethic. The latter ethic favors compulsory vaccination to supposedly ensure public health, over the individual's right to avoid the personal risks of vaccination.

[Tough]

McCain is going to have a hard time freezing gov. spending across the board if he is to confront Big Pharma and not raise taxes.
He would need our support to undertake this cause (financial burden).

[YG]

I think CM made very good points. What do you think Monica, Kim S?

[Tanners Dad]

Joe the Plumber... mentioned 26 times

Economy... mentioned 16 Times

War... mentioned 6 Times

Autism...mentioned 8 Times

Priceless... If only campaign promises could come true!

http://www.causecast.org/member/tanners-dad

[CM]

I personally wish I could vote for a 3rd party, but this year it looks like there's only two realistic choices, and although there are definitely some democratic congressmen and women on our side, I don't get the impression that Obama is.

Here's why:
Slide 87 Of David Kirby's lecture series says,
Barack Obama on Autism:
Campaign Trail, Pennsylvania
April, 2008
“We've seen just a skyrocketing autism rate. Some people are suspicious that it's connected to the vaccines. The science right now is inconclusive, but we have to research it.”

This comment sounds good on the surface, but he never states his personal belief about the possibility of vaccines causing autism. He just said that "Some people" are suspicious it's connected to vaccines. The government has been "researching" the cause for years and we've gotten nowhere. All these government "studies" have done so far is to use OUR tax dollars to "prove" that WE'RE wrong about vaccines being dangerous for some kids. Just look at the problems with the latest CDC MMR study.

And the most frightening comment in my opinion is Obama's stance on selective vaccination. He said, “I am not for selective vaccination, I believe that it will bring back deadly diseases, like polio.”
Not vaccinating my newborn with hep B, and choosing to refuse the chickenpox vaccine is not going to bring back polio.

On the other hand, this is what McCain said (on Slide 88 Of David Kirby's lecture series):
John McCain on Autism:
Campaign Trail, Texas
March, 2008
“It's indisputable that autism is on the rise amongst children, the question is what's causing it. And we go back and forth, and there's strong evidence that indicates that it's got to do with a preservative in vaccines.”

He said there is "strong evidence that indicates" the vaccines, which shows that he believes vaccines are probably the cause. That sounds like he's on our side to me. Also, even though he's proposing a spending freeze he specifically said in the second debate that he wanted to cut all spending that was not critical. I think by bringing up autism so many times, he's telling us that he knows this is a critical and urgent issue and I'm sure he would see to it that this issue receives proper funding.

Also, the Pharmaceutical companies really seem to be courting Obama. Look at the comparison of campaign contributions:
"Obama $181,000 in Big Pharma donations through Jan. 31, compared with Clinton's $174,000. As for McCain, his total was only $44,000." [2]

And if you look at the history of mandatory vaccine policies, they were both instituted by democratic presidents.
1. President Jimmy Carter was the first president to implement mandatory vaccine policies. He did so with the "No School No Shots" campaign on October 14, 1977
2. President Bill Clinton increased the number of vaccines REQUIRED for school admittance on Dec 26, 2000, despite the numerous parental claims of vaccine injuries

And another example, though not a president: Democratic State's Attorney Glenn F. Ivey threatened parents with JAIL for not having their children vaccinated against chicken pox and hepatitis B. He said, "The goal is to get kids in school, We can do this the easy way or the hard way, but it's got to get done," and "I'm willing to move forward with legal action." We don't want legislators threatening us with jail for not injecting our children with neurotoxins.

Obama seems like a nice guy, but based on the points above I am worried sick that if he is elected, the forced vaccination policies will again be made even stricter; especially if he achieves his goal of government-run health care.
Now if a doctor is not willing to space out a child's shots, you can just go somewhere else. But if all doctors are placed under government authority, they probably would all have to strictly adhere to the CDC's dangerously excessive vaccine schedule. I am very leery of Obama's desire to have government-run health care because I don't want the politicians (like Waxman) who either don't care or don't believe the parents' first-hand accounts of vaccine injuries in their children to be in control of my children's doctors. Also, if there was only one healthcare system AND it was controlled by the same government officials who deny that autism is a vaccine injury, where would that get us??

References to these quotes can be found at http://no-more-forced-vaccines.blogspot.com/ which is just a longer version of this comment in a 1 post blog.

[Media Scholar]

Democratic control of Congress. Ho Hum.

Here are just five examples of what Blue does for you. Zippo.

1. H.RES.20 : Making further continuing appropriations for the fiscal year 2007, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Rep Obey, David R. [WI-7] (introduced 1/29/2007) Cosponsors (None)
Committees: House Appropriations
Latest Major Action: Became Public Law No: 110-5 [GPO: Text, PDF]
Note: Continuing appropriations through 9/30/2007.

to switch the $70 million allotment for The Vaccine Fund to The GAVI Fund.

2. H.R.881 : To amend the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act to reduce human exposure to mercury through vaccines.
Sponsor: Rep Weldon, Dave [FL-15] (introduced 2/7/2007) Cosponsors (21)
Committees: House Energy and Commerce
Latest Major Action: 2/8/2007 Referred to House subcommittee. Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on Health.

3. H.R.1532 : To amend the Public Health Service Act with respect to making progress toward the goal of eliminating tuberculosis, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Rep Green, Gene [TX-29] (introduced 3/15/2007) Cosponsors (58)
Committees: House Energy and Commerce
House Reports: 110-873
Latest Major Action: Became Public Law No: 110-392
Requires the Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases to conduct research activities to develop a tuberculosis vaccine.

4. H.R.1973 : To improve vaccine safety research, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Rep Weldon, Dave [FL-15] (introduced 4/19/2007) Cosponsors (9)
Committees: House Energy and Commerce
Latest Major Action: 4/20/2007 Referred to House subcommittee. Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on Health.

5. H.R.3043 : Making appropriations for the Departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education, and related agencies for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2008, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Rep Obey, David R. [WI-7] (introduced 7/13/2007) Cosponsors (None)
Committees: House Appropriations
House Reports: 110-231; Latest Conference Report: 110-424 (in Congressional Record H12486-12711)
Latest Major Action: 11/15/2007 Failed of passage in House over veto. Status: On passage, the objections of the President to the contrary notwithstanding Failed by the Yeas and Nays: (2/3 required): 277 - 141 (Roll no. 1122).

Prohibits the Secretary from using funds for the administration of any influenza vaccine containing thimerosal as a preservative to any child under three years of age, unless the Secretary finds that there is an inadequate supply of thimerosal-free influenza vaccines or provides a justification for using such a vaccine based on the public health situation.

[Fielding J. Hurst]

Both sides seem to be in Pander Bear mode. Here's some goodies for you, here's some goodies for your family. Washington isn't going to solve any problems anytime soon, it would just be nice if they could stop creating new ones at a breakneck pace and maybe start giving a crap about it's citizens instead of being owned by special interests. I am totally fed up with anyone who has an R or D behind their name.