Minnesota Investigates Autism in Somali Children
Our Kind of Town?

The Autism Sneetches: Vaxed Vs. Unvaxed

Sneetches_2Karey Williams never thought a parenting decision would come between her and a good friend. The two had known one another for a decade, supported each other through infertility treatment and had their first babies around the same time. But when she told the friend that she had stopped vaccinating her daughter at age 1, the relationship abruptly ended.

"She said, 'Well then, your child can't come into my house,'" recalls Williams, 47, who lives in the Chicago area.

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Clark  DeBona

Vaccines are poison to the body. This is simple to prove. Just read the ingredients. In 1983 the number of shots a child received was about 10. The rate of Autism was 1 in 10.000. Today the number of shots a child gets is 36 or more. The current rate of Autism is 1 in 150. You do the math.
Folks on this list, do you realize that there large communities such as the Amish and others, who do not vaccinate, have no Autism.
In 2000 Robert F Kennedy Jr. informed the public that top government scientists CDC, FDA,WHO, and top dogs from each of the vaccine manufactures, meet in private to discuss a study ( yes there are hidden studies that prove vaccine cause Autism and many , and I repeat many other illnesses ) that revealed a link between vaccines and Autism. So what did these top dogs do? They spent the next few days figuring out how to keep this information from the public. They created false studies that could show everyone that vaccines are safe.
Do what you want. I have three children and my job as a parent is to protect them, not fill them with such filth. It make me wonder if everyone who does vaccinate their children if they are in a fluoride induced comma. Look what has happened. This is a problem that is not going to go away until parents "just say no". and take responsibility for your child's well being. The clueless doctors have to listen too their masters and they end up acting more like pimps to the drug lords vs our helpers in keeping our children safe.
One more thing. Anyone wonder why our school tax has gone through the roof. After we cause our children great harm, we now have to educate them at a dollar rate that is god knows how many times more then the average student.

Lea Schizas

Forgive my ignorant question here but I read this excerpt:

Jennifer Collado, 37, of Glen Rock, N.J., says members of her son's toddler play group were "stunned" when one mother mentioned that her child wasn't vaccinated. The group didn't kick them out though, and shortly after they moved out of state. But the group felt that information should have been mentioned upfront. "Someone pointed out to her that it was her choice to do that but that she was putting everyone's kids in jeopardy by not having her kids vaccinated," Collado says.

and would like to find out something: we vaccinate our children to help build some form of resistance to a strain/bacteria/disease. Then how would a child who has not been vaccinated put other children into danger? I'm not naive, I know that if a child was vaccinated for measles but never got it and exposed, there is a chance of them getting it. What I'm trying to ask is if a child is vaccinated, they are supposedly building an immune to that particular disease but still can get it--at the same strength as a child who has not been vaccinated? If the answer to this is yes, then I have to ask why vaccinate?

I'm not stating anything but really would like a clarification on this. Thank you for your help.

anonymous antivaccinationist

It's the leftover mindset from the 40's and 50's that if science (or humans) created it, it must be good. The evidence says so (never mind that liars figure and figures lie). Or if it breaks, we can fix it - after all, we created the damage and we knew what we were doing. We'll just not give you a say in any of it, because you're anti-science and full of pseudoscience...and science is doG - or didn't you get the memo?

Garbo

Great -- load up vaccines with powerful adjuvants like aluminum that cause the immune system to crash and burn, then develop drugs to address autoimmune disorders. I'm sure all the thousands of girls with Gardasil reactions are thrilled. Except for the ones who are dead, that is. What a racket. How bout this instead? STOP USING HYPER-POWERED ADJUVANTS. YOU DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT THEY DO.

anonymous antivaccinationist

Ah, to be a patent attorney - really puts the plundering in perspective.

Teresa

In addition to the vaccine issues, it could be that Celgene would benefit enormously from increasing numbers of sick, autistic children. Key words:

-thalidomide
-inflammatory
-immunological disorders
-immunological and auto-immune diseases
-Immunomodulatory Drugs
-Selective Cytokine Inhibitory Drugs
-developed for the treatment of cancer,
chronic inflammatory diseases and other
diseases of the immune system.
-produced d-methylphenidate (d-MPH), a chirally pure version of Ritalin®.

http://ir.celgene.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=111960&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=114308&highlight=
Celgene’s lead product, THALOMID® (thalidomide), was approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in July 1998 for the treatment of erythema nodosum leprosum, an inflammatory condition of leprosy. THALOMID revenues for the first half of 2000 were $27.9 million. There are currently 140 clinical trials studying the potential efficacy of THALOMID in a wide range of cancers and immunological disorders. The strategy for THALOMID is to obtain FDA approval in a variety of indications including multiple myeloma, colorectal cancer, glioblastoma and other immunological and auto-immune diseases. Celgene’s pipeline includes two classes of novel and proprietary oral agents: IMiDs™ (Immunomodulatory Drugs) and SelCIDs™ (Selective Cytokine Inhibitory Drugs). Both classes are being developed for the treatment of cancer, chronic inflammatory diseases and other diseases of the immune system. Celgene’s chiral program has produced d-methylphenidate (d-MPH), a chirally pure version of Ritalin®. In April 2000, Celgene granted to Novartis Pharma AG an exclusive worldwide license (excluding Canada) for the development and marketing of d-MPH. Celgene expects to submit a New Drug Application for d-MPH to the FDA later this year.

http://ir.celgene.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=111960&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=95064&highlight=
Celgene has filed more than 20 patents worldwide related to SelCIDs(TM), of which eight U.S. patents have already been issued. The Company has been granted patents covering different structural classes of SelCID compounds. It is the Company's plan to broaden studies in various disease models, initiate clinical trials of the SelCIDs in inflammatory diseases and continue to strengthen the intellectual property for this class of drugs.

Key words:
Ulcerative Colitis
Crohn's disease
TNF-alpha and interferon gamma
inflammatory bowel disease

RJ

"RJ, I love how you practice aversion to unwanted questions by defending yourself as one who does not develop vaccines."

Monica,

I addressed your questions. The editors of AoA chose not to post them. This happens from time to time on this site.

My apologies.

RJ

Monica

RJ, why no answer to my questions? I am still awaiting your response. I would like an educated answer rather than watch you behave like a 5 yr old.

"I guess if you can't discuss the issues, divert to fabricated/inflated accusations attacking the individual."

Are you speaking about yourself here RJ?

RJ

"Please don't waste your time reading and responding to his posts as they are all bullshit to support his personal vaccine profits. "

"they're actively involved in research on adjutants for cancer vaccines."

You guys are HILARIOUS! You've got to be kidding me! My personal profits?! Actively involved in adjuvant research?! Absolutely laughable! And then posting personal information that I did not ask to be, or where asked to by you, to be posted, in a laughable attempt to discredit the topics and issues of discussion, by saying I'm making profits from vaccines, at a company that doesn't make vaccines or adjuvants (Mark, do you know what an abstract is? A 3rd party scientist, in the UK, submitted that with a compound that is used by an academic lab, and makes a hypothetical claim, and that's evidence that I'm involved with vaccines?!). Pathetic!

I guess if you can't discuss the issues, divert to fabricated/inflated accusations attacking the individual.

Mark

We give RJ credit for following the rules much of the time. He seems touchy, though, on this question of transparency about his financial and career interests. As a service to our readers, here are the facts on RJ's position folks.

R.J. Bates, M.S.,M.B.A.
Associate Scientist
Inflammation Research
Experimental Therapeutics Group
Celgene, Signal Research Division, LLC

And here's some information on Celgene. They sell thalidomide and Ritalin. they're actively involved in research on adjuvants for cancer vaccines.

http://www.cancervaccine.org.uk/scientists_clinicians/index.php

Since the launch of the CVI in 2000 much success has been achieved and shared with other scientists and clinicians around the world through Scientific journals and conferences. Over one hundred patients have been recruited into cancer vaccine trials and we are established as the only UK. centre for the Morton vaccine trials. We have shown that the addition of low dose Interleukin-2 into vaccines can enhance objective responses as well as demonstrating in a collaboration with Celgene that the new Thalidomide analogues cause significant immune stimulation, suggesting they may be an ideal adjuvant treatment to give with cancer vaccines


Monica

Teresa, while I understand this, I still feel it is important to educate idiots like him, and especially educate some unknowing reader about the dangers and occurrence of primary immunodeficiency.

Not only do I advocate for autism awareness, I am very vocal about primary immunodeficiency. As this is a highly underdiagnosed condition, which is very treatable. Left untreated, an individual with even mild primary immunodeficiency is at a higher risk for organ failure (I have had a few removed), systemic infections (I had MRSA 12 times) certain cancers, especially cancers of the blood. My father's mother died of Multiple Myeloma, a cancer of the blood. She had chronic infections all her life, yet she was never referred to an immunologist.

Much of this could have easily been prevented had I been diagnosed, and treated when my elevated white blood cell count was first diagnosed.

RJ, I love how you practice aversion to unwanted questions by defending yourself as one who does not develop vaccines.

If such is the case, what education do you have that gives you the expertise on immune function, and vaccine reactions?

I would actually prefer it if you WERE employed by a company that manufactures vaccines. Perhaps then, you may have the education required to make such blanket statements regarding immune disorders as you have.

However, your lack of response to my question leads me to believe that you have no knowledge as to the subject of immunology and vaccines.

pfft...

Lisa Clark

The irritating thing about this situation is the same thing we hear over and over. There is no scientific link between autism, and vaccines. It's the solution for every question. That is just supposed to stop us from making waves. Then you get these people who flip out over unvaccinated children. It is so common it's scary. On a group post there were 500 relpies. There were alot of people that were of the opinion that an unvaccinated child should not be allowed in public schools, and daycares. I understand that people are entitled to their opionion , but I think that is a little harsh. Since in the next sentance written they say my child is fully vaccinated on schedule, so I have nothing to worry about. I think this attitude is what is wrong with society today, no tolerance for someone with a different opionion from myself. I think in most cases until something effects you personaly, you don't think about it. I vaccinated until my children showed signs of damage.

RJ

"RJ and D's Advocate are the same person posting under different names. He works for a company that develops vaccines. Is any more information necessary?"

What a joke! What sad, pathetic view of the world you have. Why lie?

I do not work for a company that develops vaccines.

Teresa

Hi Monica and Twyla-

Looks like you both missed the post from Mark exposing Ds advocate and RJ as one in the same. Please don't waste your time reading and responding to his posts as they are all bullshit to support his personal vaccine profits. How people can sink so low is beyond me but it is becoming more apparent that profits are more important to these dark souls than the value of human life.

Monica

RJ, I would appreciate some clarification regarding the following statements you made;

"There are those who cannot (and should not) be fully or partially immunized (usually for a specified length of time). Although extremely rare, these people do exist."

When you say for a specified length of time, where do you base this finding on?

When you say that these individuals are extremely rare, what information do you base this statement on?

I find fault with these statements, as individuals with Primary Immunodeficiency (a highly genetic disorder) are contraindicated for vaccination with live virus vaccines. Adverse reactions to these vaccines can result in encephalitis, MIBE, SSPE, SJS, and even death. The CDC, ACIP, AAP, NIH, and WHO all advise against giving these vaccines to individuals with primary immunodeficiency, or with a family history of primary immunodeficiency.

You are partially correct in your statement regarding some individuals being contraindicated for vaccination for a specific length of time. In the case of those receiving treatment for cancer, this is true, as they are an a state of transient immunodeficiency, as well as individuals who have received blood transfusions.

My daughter Jade, who developed typically until 17 months, had a severe adverse reaction to the vaccines she received at 17 months. These vaccinations include the MMR and Varicella (among others), which in total are 4 live viruses.

3 weeks after vaccination, she had a high fever, erythema multiforme (target shaped lesions), and seizures. The doc at the ER was puzzled, and said it was viral, take her home and give her tylenol. I even questioned the vaccines, yet he assured me a reaction would only occur within 5 days. This statement was false, I have since learned, as most Varicella reactions will not appear for 5 days, as the virus has an incubation period.

5 months later my daughter was diagnosed as severely autistic. She has also been diagnosed with "empty sella syndrome", the sella is the structure that houses the pituitary gland. Her neurologist feels this was caused by encephalitis. Jade stopped growing for a year after this adverse event (promting the MRI that discovered this), and will likely require hormone therapy in the coming years.

She was also diagnosed with Primary Immunodeficiency, and was given a permanent medical exemption to ALL vaccines. Not for a specified time, but for her ENTIRE life. This diagnosis was based on her lack of adequate response to the vaccinations she received as per the standard pediatric schedule.

In the 2 years since her diagnosis of primary immunodeficiency, both my father and I have been diagnosed with this disorder. I have shown signs of primary immunodeficiency for 15 yrs before I asked for a referral to an immunologist, and was diagnosed with the condition. My father has shown signs for 25 years. We have always both had an extremely high white blood cell count, that was never fully explored, other than to name it "idiopathic leukocytosis" (fancy name for high wbc with unkown origin).

In fact, the average length of time between onset of symptoms and diagnosis is 9 years. Many individuals are asymptomatic well into adulthood.

The majority of children with Primary Immunodeficiency (save the few with the most severe forms, which usually do not live past 12 months old) are not diagnosed until AFTER age 6.

I am very interested in your statement regarding this condition being extremely rare. According to the research performed by the IDF, or Immune Deficiency Foundation, 1 in every 1,200 US citizens are diagnosed with primary immunodeficiency.

According to a recent study from the IDF 1 in every 333 putatively normal blood donors had IgA deficiency, the most common form of primary immunodeficiency.

http://www.primaryimmune.org/publications/surveys/Population_Prevalence_of_Diagnosed_Primary.pdf

I would not say this is a "rare" disorder at all. The condition is horribly underdiagnosed, as research regarding it is very recent, and there is a great lack of awareness regarding primary immunodeficiency among physicians.

In a recent survey conducted by the IDF, 1.3% of respondents stated that they were diagnosed with a form of primary immunodeficiency. 1.3 percent of our population that should NEVER receive live virus vaccinations!

I would have to argue with you RJ, in stating that "these conditions" are "extremely rare". I feel confident in stating that the actual cases of primary immunodeficiency are more than 10x higher than what is currently diagnosed. That figure will likely climb, as this year the WHO discovered another 50 forms of primary immunodeficiency, bringing the number of primary immunodeficiencies to 200. In 2000, they knew of 75, by 2005, the number doubled to 150. I wonder how many we will know about by 2010?

Now, you may argue, and state that the predisposition to adverse vaccine reactions lies with the individual. I am sure you feel in my daughter's case, it was not the vaccine, but her genetic underlying condition that is responsible for her encephalitis.

You know what I say to that?

Bullshit.

Not to mention the NVICP considers this an acceptable reason for a child to have an adverse reaction to vaccines, and be properly compensated. Again, every major health organization in the world advises against live virus vaccination of the immunodeficienct. Had my daughter not been vaccinated, she would not have had a reaction to the vaccination, and would not have suffered encephalitis.

We have no way of knowing which children have primary immunodeficiency before they receive government mandated live virus vaccinations.

It literally is a roll of the dice, and as we add more live virus vaccines to the current schedule, the odds are stacked against our children.

Meg Rose

I couldn't resist...here is the comment I posted following the article.

Someone please explain this to me...If you have vaccinated your child then why are you afraid of an unvaccinated child? The purpose of vaccination is to keep your child from contracting certain childhood diseases. If your child is protected as much as 90-99%, what are you worried about?? If your vaccine is as effective as it claims to be, my child should be able to come down with mumps and lick your child's face and your child should not contract the illness, yes??

Elizabeth

Robin's comment on the article really fired me up, we need to scare people about autism the way the media is getting everyone scared about the measles. How about the truth?

Do you want the measles or...do you want to stay home and away from others because your kid: screams and yells because s/he cannot speak; bites, kicks, and hits people randomly; injures him/herself by headbanging, biting, running into things; fights/attacks siblings constantly; runs out into the street; spits on people in public; has unpredictable behavior with other children - approaches nicely, then kicks/hits or drags child down by the hair; picks up/mouths everything- used gum, bird poop, trash, soda cups with straws; stomps people's plants flat; pulls their curtains off the windows; destroys their property; tortures their pets; undresses and urinates in public.

Well, that pretty much sums up my child, anyone else? Anyone think the measles is sounding pretty good now? LOL!

Twyla

D's Advocate, you say, "Doctors will not unilaterally vaccinate according to a 'mandated schedule' if there are other health concerns for the child (immunodeficiency, autoimmune issues, cancer, etc)." But for newborns, 2-month olds, 4-month olds -- how would anyone know if they suffer from immunodeficiency, autoimmunity, or other issues such as mitochondrial dysfunction? Doctors routinely give the Hep B at birth, before anything is known about the baby's health other than the obvious attributes that are considered for the Apgar score.

You say, "To blame the immune system or a claim a toxicological or pharmacological explanation requires a definable mechanism (these would be easy to discern with modern scientific methods). These have been ruled out." That's hogwash.

You say, "There are those who cannot (and should not) be fully or partially immunized (usually for a specified length of time). Although extremely rare, these people do exist... I would just ask then, politely, is it the vaccines or the individual? And if it is the individual, what role do genes play?" The more vaccines added to the schedule, and the more unstudied toxic ingredients used, the larger the percentage of kids with adverse effects -- not only autism, but other immune system disorders such as allergies, asthma, auto-immune disorders...

Sure, you could just say, "screw everyone whose genetic makeup does not enable them to withstand the current vaccine schedule". That philosophy may work for you until someone close to you is affected.

Elizabeth

"Doctors will not unilaterally vaccinate according to a "mandated schedule" if there are other health concerns for the child (immunodeficiency, autoimmune issues, cancer, etc)."

D's Advocate, you are telling me they check? Give me a break. There are doctors trying to get better vaccination rates in long-term care facilities for sick children with these kinds of diseases, I have read journal articles about it.

The parents with more money/education are more likely to refuse vaccinations on these kids, but you bet ya they try to give them!

Teresa

Thanks, Mark. I suspected but wanted to be civil. No need now--what a scumbag. Money is the root of all evil as the saying goes.

Mark

Teresa,
RJ and D's Advocate are the same person posting under different names. He works for a company that develops vaccines. Is any more information necessary?

Teresa

RJ (and Ds advocate)

You both seem to have the same theme--defending vaccines--or advocating for those who make them, sell them, or administer them.

These comments are without any hard evidence, scientific proof, ie basically they're the 2 of you stating opinion.

-"Slapping the 100% expectation on anything is ridiculous." (oh, but if a percent is being harmed at increasing numbers yearly, you think and feel that turning your back on that susceptible subset is ok?)

-"There is a growing body of evidence that de novo mutations are a causal factor." (there is also a growing body of past and present evidence that thimerosal/mercury can cause mitochondria injury (DNA)--ie dysfunction...funny how your side twists that around and calls it "mutations"--like some idiopathic-gene-epidemic-monster comes randomly out of the closet)

-"That is why studies testing a link between vaccines and autism are not being pursued by the majority of the scientific and medical community._ (really? I think this is a fantasy on your part and a real concern of yours, that we are correct about vaccines causing autism in many of our children and the science is showing that it is biologically plausible)

-"There are very specific changes occurring in specific parts of the brains of autistic individuals. To blame the immune system or a claim a toxicological or pharmacological explanation requires a definable mechanism (these would be easy to discern with modern scientific methods). These have been ruled out. (again, really? Who has ruled that out based on what research? Again, there is much research on the immune system and for example, mercury/thimerosal but more would be nice. It has hardly been ruled out though. Key words here for googling or pubmed would be *mitochondria-thimerosal-mercury*, *mice-hamsters-monkeys-thimerosal*,*cytokines-thimerosal-mercury*,
*thimerosal-calcium-glutamates/mitochondria*
*thimerosal-bacteria-virus*. Do your homework guys.

Craig Willoughby

"There would definitely need to be further discussion of the details, which I don't think we can do here. But your other children also are on the spectrum too, are they not? Was there the same or similar set of circumstances?"

My oldest daughter is classified as Asperger's, but she has learned to cope quite well. She still has a bit of OCD for many things, but overall, she is quite normal, if exceptionally bright. She had a reaction to a vaccine, but it wasn't nearly as extreme as my son's. Her's, she had a high fever for a few hours, screamed a little bit, but got over it. She was my first, and other than a few developmental delays (whe walked quite late), we didn't think anything was out of the ordinary.

After my son's vaccine, 6 hours later, he was screaming these chilling, blood-curdling shrieks (I've heard them called Crie-du-chat or Cry of the Cat because of the similarities to how a cat screams). His Pediatrician said that what was happening was normal (Normal?? If I seem antagonistic toward Pediatricians, he is at fault. A great deal of the blame for what happened to my son lies on his shoulders). He was running about a 105 fever, began having convulsions, and so my wife and I brought him to the ER.

The ER doc, right before we brought him to get a CAT scan, asked us if my son had the measles. I said, no, that he had just had the MMR vaccine earlier that day. The Doctor said that the only time he had ever seen something like what was happening to my son was when he had a patient with measles encephalitis.

So, is a genetic factor in play? I'm sure of it. However, there is also an environmental vector, as I described above. The truth of the matter is that there isn't enough research to discount whether or not this combination of factors is more common than we think, because I've heard my son's story echoed repeatedly by many, many parents. They may not have the medical documentation (some do), but their stories are eerily similar.

Anyway, thanks for the very respectful post. You seem genuinely interested, and I look forward to your thoughts.

RJ

"Ah, but I have proof of the causation. My son's medical records, on the day of his vaccination and his visit to the ER with a 105 degree fever, show that his encepalopathy was caused by a fever that was in turn caused by his vaccination."

There would definitely need to be further discussion of the details, which I don't think we can do here. But your other children also are on the spectrum too, are they not? Was there the same or similar set of circumstances?

To be brief (and somewhat incomplete, I am sorry), the fact is that the vast majority of children do not "contract autism", nor suffer serious adverse events from immunizations. There are those who cannot (and should not) be fully or partially immunized (usually for a specified length of time). Although extremely rare, these people do exist. Perhaps your children are in this group. I would just ask then, politely, is it the vaccines or the individual? And if it is the individual, what role do genes play?

Craig Willoughby

"My guess is that you have been told that the possibility that your child's autism was caused by vaccination is not supported by the evidence."

Ah, but I have proof of the causation. My son's medical records, on the day of his vaccination and his visit to the ER with a 105 degree fever, show that his encepalopathy was caused by a fever that was in turn caused by his vaccination. It's right there in black and white. And for that reason, it will be extremely, and I do mean EXTREMELY, difficult to change my mind otherwise. And, if it could happen to my son, and to Hannah Poling, then, logically, it is plausible that it could happen to other children, could it not?

Ds Advocate

"You mean like administering a one-size-fits-all vaccine schedule for 100% of the children in this country and then *expecting* the same outcome close to 100% of the time?? (Okay, 97% of the time according to Renee Jenkins.)"

Agreed. And that's exactly why it doesn't exist. Doctors will not unilaterally vaccinate according to a "mandated schedule" if there are other health concerns for the child (immunodeficiency, autoimmune issues, cancer, etc). No doctor expects the same outcome 100% of the time. But if the majority of outcomes is 97 to 99%, what conclusions would you make about that procedure, particularly if it is improving the lives of people?

Monica

Robin, there is a group of individuals that should not be vaccinated with live virus vaccines. Individuals with Primary Immunodeficiency, a genetic condition. A recent study by the IDF (immune deficiency foundation) that found one in every 1,200 individuals in the US are diagnosed with a primary immunodeficiency. They also found that one in every 400 blood donations show the donor has the most common form of primary immunodeficiency.

Unfortunately, only the most severe forms of this are found before a child is vaccinated.

KarenAtlanta, your non-response to your vaccines and illness may show that you may have a primary immunodeficiency. This is how they test for it after all. Have you or your children been evaluated by an immunologist?

After the horror of my daughter Jade's reaction to the MMR, and subsequent regression into autism, we consulted an immunologist. The first round of testing was to see if she created antibodies to her vaccines. She didn't, and now has a permanent medical exemption to all vaccines, based on this, combined with her reaction.

I have heard from many parents here that their children have no antibodies to many of the vaccines they have received. I wonder if your children have ever been evaluated by an immunologist for primary immunodeficiency.

What worries me, is that the majority of individuals with primary immunodeficiency are undiagnosed well beyond age 6, and many until adulthood, well after the age to receive live virus vaccines.

In 2000, the World Health Organization had identified 75 forms of Primary Immunodeficiency. By 2006, they had identified 150. Last week, I had to pull some info from www.primaryimmune.org, and saw some disturbing news. The WHO now recognizes 200 forms of primary immunodeficiency!

How many individuals have this condition? How many are undiagnosed, how many will have children vaccinated with live virus vaccines?

RJ

"So, by your reasoning, why is it that we are told that there is absolutely no way possible that our children had a reaction to a vaccination (as you described above) that triggered symptoms like Autism?"

My guess is that you have been told that the possibility that your child's autism was caused by vaccination is not supported by the evidence.

But to address the point of your question, because there is a biological disconnect between cause and effect. When I am talking about 100% efficacy, I am talking about how people's bodies react to medicines, treatment, vaccines, therapies, as well as the diseases and disorders themselves (as well as many different things we encounter in the environment, including learning and experiences). If one is to claim a causation, there has to be an underlying mechanism to explain it. That has not been done with autism and vaccines. There is a growing body of evidence that de novo mutations are a causal factor. That is why studies testing a link between vaccines and autism are not being pursued by the majority of the scientific and medical community. There are very specific changes occurring in specific parts of the brains of autistic individuals. To blame the immune system or a claim a toxicological or pharmacological explanation requires a definable mechanism (these would be easy to discern with modern scientific methods). These have been ruled out.

Kelli Ann Davis

"Slapping the 100% expectation on anything is ridiculous."

You mean like administering a one-size-fits-all vaccine schedule for 100% of the children in this country and then *expecting* the same outcome close to 100% of the time?? (Okay, 97% of the time according to Renee Jenkins.)

Craig Willoughby

D's Advocate,
You said:
"Nothing in medicine is 100%. Every antigen does not elicit the same response, every time. Every (vaccinated) persons' body does not deal with infection the same way, every time (stress, multiple insults/exposures, etc.). Slapping the 100% expectation on anything is ridiculous."

So, by your reasoning, why is it that we are told that there is absolutely no way possible that our children had a reaction to a vaccination (as you described above) that triggered symptoms like Autism?

Kerbob

The parents' apparently lack of confidence that mass vaccination protection policies include their own fully vaccinated children is most telling.

"Perhaps the greatest evil of immunization lies in its diversion of public attention from true methods of disease prevention. It encourages public authorities to permit all kinds of sanitary defects and social problems to remain undressed, particularly in schools. It ignores the part played by food and sunlight and many other factors in the maintenance of health. It exaggerates the risk of diphtheria and works upon the fear of parents. The more it is supported by public authorities, the more will its dangers and disadvantages be concealed or denied." M. Beddow Bayly, M.R.C.S., 1944

Ds Advocate

Properly immunized individuals, with a normally functioning immune system can have immunity for decades (depending on the antigen).

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=18082688


Nothing in medicine is 100%. Every antigen does not elicit the same response, every time. Every (vaccinated) persons' body does not deal with infection the same way, every time (stress, multiple insults/exposures, etc.). Slapping the 100% expectation on anything is ridiculous.

KarenAtlanta

Plenty of us are fully vaccinated and still hold no immunity.
I've had my measles shot, booster and the disease and show no immunity in a blood test.
Let's worry about something of substance... like MRSA for heaven's sake.

All the reported outbreaks always include the unvaccinated in the mix.
Vaccines are not 100% effective and safe.
If so, we wouldn't need to 21 million dollars to maintain the VAERS database.

Can you say...
"false security"?
"fear mongering"?
"propaganda"?

Robin Nemeth

I've heard the term 'herd immunity' used so often in the past few years. Every so often I'll hear it explained as the necessity for something like eighty five percent or more of the population to be vaccinated if the whole population is to be protected. But nobody ever explains why that is—that is, the theory behind it. So on google I searched ‘herd immunity’. From wikipedia I read:

Herd immunity (or community immunity) describes a type of immunity that occurs when the vaccination of a portion of the population (or herd) provides protection to unvaccinated individuals.

Oh I see now that those who’ve got concerns about vaccines are now not just questioning the wisdom of a ‘herd’ mentality, but questioning the wisdom of the ‘community’. There it is again—that term gemeinschaftsfremd pops into my mind once again. ‘Alien to the community.’

I guess the idea is that we’re supposed to risk our own children so that those too young or too old or otherwise unable to be vaccinated can be safe. Not that I believe it’s ethically right to tell people they should do that, but I’m a bit curious as to how many individuals there are who are actually at risk because they are, through no choice of their own but because of complicating medical factors, unvaccinated. I wonder if it’s anywhere near the incidence of autism in the US population.

At any rate wikipedia wouldn’t seem to explain why those parents whose children HAVE been vaccinated have concerns with their children being around the unvaccinated.

Robin Nemeth

Sally M

What drives me the most crazy is that these parents who supposedly are so against having their child come in contact with an unvaccinated child, have probably not had a booster themselves in years! Which is why I say herd immunity is a ridiculous myth! There are literally millions of adults whose "immunity" has surely worn off from their own childhood vaccines, and most have never received any of the newer vaccines. Disease is not only passed on from child to child!

Nicole

This is so ridiculous, but I'm not surprised. This is the part I'll never understand...if the parents who vaccinate their children have such confidence in the vaccines themselves, then an unvaccinated child could never harm their protected child. Which one is it? Do they believe that vaccines work with all kids 100% of the time or don't they?
Nicole

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